Man... Peter I wish I was in your area, I would come fix that chip conveyor in a heartbeat just to be able to say I met Peter Stanton! Thank you for the videos.
As allways ....a pleasure to watch! Beeing a non-machinist but technically interestet retired opticien from the Netherlands i can apreciate your skilss and your attitude to your work! Thanks for your many video`s👍👍👍
Thank you again for a most enjoyable and educating video, my machining requirements I can do upon a basic centre lathe. However seeing your efforts and sort of Art is very satisfying. Take care too.
I tried to like the video 3 times because forgot i already liked it. Your atittude is rare here where I live in the UK. Needs more people like you, but i guess that comes from you are the owner of the company and not just an employee who's waiting the end of the shift.
The air coming out of the knife is probably in laminar flow. At the edge of an air stream is the boundary layer. A laminar boundary layer is thinner and has less drag than a turbulent boundary layer, but doesn’t stick to a surface as well. In this case you want the airflow to remain attached to the surface (lens cover), drag isn’t an issue. So I think you’d get better results with a turbulent boundary layer. You can experiment with this by sticking a thin strip of coarse abrasive strip just in front of the air knife exit. That should tip the flow into a more sticky turbulent boundary layer that should clear the lens more effectively. Some gliders have a strip of abrasive on the leading edge to keep the airflow attached to the wing. (Higher drag, but lower stall speed)
It amazes me how much force those jaws can grip with to hold a part that heavy that far out of the chuck!! Here I am putting a tailstock in on a little 3x3 part because it feels big lol.
I would never do this with a hydraulic chuck. As speed increases a hydraulic chuck looses clamping force. A manual four jaw chuck doesn’t have this problem. Also remember this part isn’t really that long. It’s just the size that intimidates you. It’s 16” in diameter and only 21.5” long. If you stick your 3” part out around 4.5” it’s about the same relationship.
@@EdgePrecision Yeah, the scale of it messes with me. The aesthetic of a 20" part hanging on by 1" of jaw jumbles my brain. I'm sure there's many thousands of pounds of clamping force with them and is perfectly safe, but it still makes me feel yikes lol.
I'm with you on the CAM being nicer and safer. I think it's actually not effective overall, too. I don't use a Mazak, but I've found conversational is only useful for the things I could write in straight gcode, and if it's that simple, might as well do that! We invented CAM systems for a reason! It's the smart thing to use them!
@@somebodyelse6673 It may but I loose and makeup gallons of coolant every week or two. I think a few ounces of RainX won’t do to much. I have always used it to clean the machines windows.
Yeah my boss tried getting us to use conversational programming it’s much easier to program on a big screen where you can zoom in and you have much more features. Chip impressions scrap parts!
In low range on these parts. I keep a eye on the spindle load reading. It starts at around 48% when it climbs up to around 55-58% I start looking at the chips coming off the tool. generally the tool will not be breaking the chip as well. Throwing off a long stringer or spring shaped shavings. something like that. I will stop and index the insert. this machine has a 60 Hp turning spindle. You have to pay attention to this. If the tool fails it wont stop or overload it will just burn up the tool and part.
Its fun to make that kind of pieces I usually make pieces between diameter 400-800 and with alot of grooving that takes time but the amount of work that goes in is just fun to do and its time eating 😁 Nice job making that part 👍
Love the videos. I do have a question about indicators on horizontal machines. When I was trained on a horizontal mill a few years ago, my instructor said that you shouldn't use a normal dial test indicator in the spindle to pick up on holes, because gravity will give you a false reading. To demonstrate, he used a Noga Mag Base on a piece of flat stock, zeroed the indicator on the steel and turned the whole apparatus upside down. Sure enough, it drooped about .001. To get around it, I was told a co-axial indicator never has this issue. Have you run into this sort of problem on the Mazak or Mits? Do you think it's a lack of rigidity in the Noga Arm or an inherent issue in the mechanism of the dial test indicator? Thanks for making great content!
Your instructor is correct. What ever indicator and arm you use has to be tested for this. Any mag base arm combination I have found is useless. What I use is a the short Noga arm with a Interapid vertical dial indicator. The old Noga arms had a small clamp knob like you see in this video. The new ones have this large knob. I don’t like that. The arm should mount in a collet chuck and be short. The stylus pressure/force of the indicator needs to be light/low. This can contribute to the error. The Interapid indicator has a very low force. The only co-axial indicator I would use is the Hamer Centro. All the others I have tried aren’t in my opinion accurate enough. But it does cost around $600.00. Also I can’t run the spindle with the doors open on the Mazak. So a co-axial indicator would have to be turned by hand. Not the most ideal but doable.
@@EdgePrecision Thanks for the reply! I'll do some more testing with it next time I need to indicate on a bore. Always worth trying to learn something new.
I'm a 1 man, 1 machine shop too and my wife is always telling me that making the part to its tolerances is fine enough but I sometime get carried away as well and want that dim as close to target as my body will allow
For the rainex, maybe a standard air line lubricator would do the job, maybe even a full FRL (filter regulator lubricator). Off the shelf solution to inject small amounts of fluid into the air stream.
Thanks for another very entertaining and informative video. I wanted to ask you about your choice of finishing insert, I noticed that you (and other UA-cam machinests) use a VNMG style insert for finishing and was wondering why? I prefer a TNMG style as they seem stronger and give 6 edges instead of only 4.
Actually the insert I use is a VBMT. The positive rake 35 deg diamond. I use this insert because it can cut down a 45 deg back angle. The VNMG doesn’t have clearance for this. It will rub the lower cutting edge unless you grind it away. Kind of defeats the four cutting edge advantage. This is very often required with thread reliefs in oil field parts. Also I like is because if shavings get wrapped up between the part and the tool it has more clearance on its back side. This has less of a tendency to mar the finish of the part. The TNMG of course won’t go down as steep back angle that I require.
Having that conveyor down will turn you tough as nails especially on a lathe .25doc at .015 that’s a heavy shovel haha that reminds me I use to have to crawl into a fadal 40x20 to shovel chips out because the company saved a “ton of money not buying the chip conveyor option ”
Thanks Peter for the video. It was a kind nerve breaking when the spindle ramp up in speed for center cut :-) . When cutting away such a massive part of material will it need heat treatment for internal tensions ? or the material is stable so it will not spontaneous release tensions.
This material is pre heat treated. I won’t get any post heat treat. It also didn’t appear to have a lot of stress in it this time. Every heat of material is always different. Some better than others.
So many great things in this video a real treasure trove and very clear and lucid. Really liked the roughing footage; cool idea with the rainx + air knife. I've wondered if its possible to pulse the coolant somehow (in particular instances ) so you can synch your frame rate almost stroboscopically (24 to 60 fps) so that the phasing can be such that you see the actual cut mostly without coolant even though the surface is receiving coolant. Perhaps better than cutting dry for didactic purposes. I really liked the footage showing the near mayhem of the rough cuts - really enjoyable to see that. ALSO really appreciate the split frame showing the inserts - genius ! (Really helpful - rough and finish.). Also CAM strategies and programming for different less obvious tool paths to fit much more appropriately the torque of the spindle. [I'm defiantly going to have to steal that approach :-) .]. At the end I really liked how you just walked with the camera round the corner of the machine and into the work area and main spindle looking down into the length of the machine (towards the tail stock) and then pivot to the main spindle and the craned part: it gives a really GOOD 3D feel to the whole space, the machine, the space occupied by the machine and the whole "human" working space that you have yourself jammed in there like a space capsule/space station - in "One take". You probably take that for granted but the wide angle lens and walkabout that way was really cool and creates a REAL feeling of the space. [Thanks so much for making this - really good visual and technical explanation that holds one's attention all the way to the end - definitely appreciate the time and effort and thoughtful explanations / edits. Awesome ! ].
Wow long comment thanks! The issue with pulsing the coolant is it takes many seconds to bleed down. So if it was pulsed you would never see it. A interesting idea though.
@@EdgePrecision I was wondering about a simple case (visually just for fun) with a coolant nozzle that had some kind of pulsing / interruption gizmo. Maybe I mock something up. There's a lot of videos out there that show stroboscopic individual droplets of a stream that have a surprisingly regular "Periodicity" and appear stationary and yet their phasing can be adjusted / dialed in. [The stream appears contiguous to the normal eye but its really not, its a collection of regularly spaced flying droplets.]. But yeah I understand-ish the basic TSC (high pressure) and other flood coolant / dishwasher "Mode" mayhem and pretty fast "Balls out" to the wall production work. Awesome to see all those extra shots and angles cut together in your video - really nice. Thanks again !
@@EdgePrecision 'ere ~ Like this ---> ua-cam.com/video/4XkywLza-9E/v-deo.html So not surprisingly if you keep making these Machining videos then you will need special "In camera" SFX (special effects) ;-) If you google "Strobe light" and "water droplets" you'll find more videos. So a bit like doing on a boring operation on an interrupted cut/ geometry, a strobed water droplet stream or maybe higher pressure "chopper" means you can find a close up camera angle "In cut" with coolant doing it's job but the strobing of the cut makes the coolant be almost invisible / out of the way as you can dial away the closest drop to the desired position / spacing. Maybe for special particular sequences you want to capture. Perhaps not for everyday coolant shooting lol. Have been interested in your small camera housing work - really cool.
Hi Peter. Keep up The Very Interesting Good Work as I know it can be a pain when you are continually working on heavy Stock however even though I've been retired for many years back in The late 60s &70s I had a bit to do with A Swiss Tape Controlled Jig Borer however when machining Stock in Lathes we would always take a skim to break The Skin which was also beneficial if The Work happened to move. Cheers. Brian
Peter now mast teach adom79 cnc programming and machining. From the time he decided to learning, he mast learn from the grand master. Greetings from Greece.
Hey there, Thanks for your time doing this video, it is very educational. I’m so curious to know about the cost of machining of these parts, I know lots of factors come into play when it comes to estimates this kind of perfect job. Thanks.
I hope you'll understand when I tell you. I don't like to go into the actual cost of a real job. I often get my jobs thru my old shop Centerline. I don't think it would be fair to them to do so. In estimating a job. After adding up the expenses you know. Like material and outside processes and possible tooling. The only thing left is what your willing to work for. In the end this is the time it takes and what that costs. You can separate the setup/programming time. Than divide it by the number of parts. Than add up all three and that's the cost. It seems simple doesn't it. But there's the final cost. Here is where you have to decide. Can I get the job for that? A'm I willing to take chances, or risk a little more, on a unseen circumstance. In the end you have to do jobs and succeed and fail to know what is practicable (for you) to quote. I do have a video where I discuss this. "My thoughts on quoting jobs". But the final word is. Its your best guess for your situation.
When roughing in low range it can’t go above 460. But when most of the material is removed on this part. I limited it to 1000 rpm in high range. The machine can only turn 1600 in high range.
What's your DOC at 14:16? I am making nearly the same part as you. I have the flange on the front, and holding the body with a FlexC collet chuck. Using a 1.5in solid boring bar with CNMG 432.. it chatters real bad. I might just have to pickup an anti-vibe bar... they're so bloody expensive. I'm hoping I can find the sweet spot feed/doc.
I designed a similar thing eight years ago and wrote a technological process for its manufacture. The problem was that we did not have such CNC equipment in production and we had to sharpen the shaft separately, and then cut out the flange on laser cutting, and then weld it to the shaft using shielding gas welding. And then turn the flange assembly with the shaft on a universal lathe in manual mode. But turning did not remove the residual beats, they still remained above the norm. With such equipment and a program, it would be possible to obtain a part with high accuracy.
When I'm indicating in on a 4-jaw and have to bang on the part next to the dial indicator. I'll slightly pick up the indicator point off the work piece, so it doesn't shock the indicator. Of course, I do strictly manual machining. Enjoy watching your videos, Ken.
This can be done with a 1" travel indicator. It would be difficult without disturbing the setting of a last word type indicator. Also I like to leave the indicator in contact with the work to see the movement when I strike the workpiece.
Peter I would really be interested in how you setup you tool offsets on the Mazak. In the tool data page or tool offsets? And the what settings you use in you cam software. Also how you setup a tool in your cam with holders and what not. Doesn’t have to be anything too special but if you could please make a video detailing some of this I would be really grateful. So far I’ve just been learning as I go on my integrex and due to having another Mazak lathe mazatrol was easy to pickup. But this is my first time trying to use eia code and Im getting all kinds of odd things like diameters coming out way off size and other strange things.
The Compac extended travel indicators are a bit more expensive but I like the dials on them better. They have an impressive amount of shock resistance.
I have never used a Compac indicator. So I cant make a comparison. But as to every indicator I have use the Interapid indicator has been the best. The Compac is only a little more say $30-40 more than the Interapid I use. Shock resistance isn't my main criteria. Its stylus force. The Interapid has a very low force. This comes into play using a indicator in the horizontal spindle position.
Holding heavy blanks to chuck-jaw can be assisted by T-slots & clamps, saving the other precision components. Adjusting back flange & OD runout, T-slots & Jack Screw, saves the whacking while using 2 indicator setup. Observing each adjustment / movement. Saves what is left of our strength 😌! Old Skool
@@EdgePrecision Old Skool 1st Job: Warner-Swasey 24" Turret Lathe, File Board, Hook Scale & Calipers for rough casting, Tubing & Casing Heads W/Ring Groves! Your New School, makes the old guy drool.😂
How often would you say you program machined chamfers on your milled features such as holes that are interpolated or things that are milled? I know in a previous comment you said you normally do not just because its an extra step to potentially scrap an expensive part and setting the tools up. On my parts i program i usually chamfer every feature that i can get to, although thats usually prodution work.
I think milling chamfers has its place. I have in the past done so. But if I’m not making but a few parts out of expensive material with no setup material. I will let the deburr guys take care of those corners.
@@EdgePrecision fair enough. I just usually find that the machined chamfers result in a better looking part overall than hand done deburring but i dont work with the value of material you do. I usually have the luxury of a setup part to fine tune my chamfer and fillets and such.
Another awesome video thks it's lots of learning for someone who have no idea how to set something like that up ...O ya how's the pick up bed coming along ..
how do you know that the material that you are making the part out of is "completely round" and that it will be able to get a low run out on the dial indicator?
If you turned a diameter it should be round. There are things that could influence this such as bad spindle bearings chuck pressure on a tubular part. But in general if the part is solid round bar and you turned it on your machine it is round. It should indicate round with no run-out if centered on the spindle.
Can you purchase a rough casting closer to the dimensions? Or is it not possible? Is it cost effective to have a cut off pieces where you just mill them? Thank you for educating on the process of set ups, milling, and finishing a part.
Castings require patterns to make. For this small quantity it’s not cost effective. Also a casting in this case is not strong enough. The turning is faster than milling.
When I put the part in the lathe (hanging from the crane) I always liked for the part to be slightly higher on the tail stock end, doing this works as you lower the part into the jaws the part will stay in place using gravity, you don’t need to hold the part with a tail stock or turret.
In low range the machine cant go over 460 Rpm So its really not a problem. But I set it at 500 for low I high range it depends on the part. If I'm taking a face cut on this part The first one with the whole stock I leave it in low range. But doing finish cuts when the part is lighter in weight I use high range. On the OD tools I limit it to 1000. On the ID tools I let it go to the maxim of 1600. Unless I'm in the steady rest than I would limit it to around 500. You can damage the bearing in the arms going to high a Rpm when holding bigger diameters in the steady rest boring a small ID.
Thanks for showing all the raw video, your ideas are really helpful for me When I am machining something, Can you please show us something based on probing cycle on your mazatrol integrex
There is a video I did on some castings on the Mazak where I used the spindle probe. look at the play list Casting Tong Wrench. I think the Mazak Final Operation video may show that.
Am i able to ask...but say if you need to modify the program to do tapers and or radius G03 or G02 without cutter compensation do you edit the program manually or do you edit the program using the CAM software?
I prefer to do all modifications in the cam software. For a couple of reasons. One is to avoid big mistakes in entering incorrect numbers. But the main reason is if I change the program in another place or way and reprocess code. If I did changes manually I would have to remember all of them and go back and redo them all.
I like to play these longer videos when I'm puttering with desk/hand work stuff. Just listening to 40:13, and thought "what if you completely filled your mazak enclosure with clear oil, then we could see much better" haha
I wonder how you would do these setups with hydraulic chucks would it be easier and more convenient or is it gonna cost more since you have to machine soft jaws for the specific diameter and is there a way to adjust runout on a hydraulic chuck I know you don't use them because they are so big and it creates clearance problems and that's why you are using this smaller 4 jaw chuck
Yes. This machine normally mounts a 21" Kitagawa chuck. What I did is buy a 16" manual 4-jaw chuck with the same mount as the Kitagawa chuck. Than it was just bolt it on the spindle. Another thing we have done is chuck onto a manual chuck in the hydraulic chuck. If your chuck isn't large enough for that. Bolt a short straight shank on the 4-jaw and chuck that in the hydraulic chuck.
Yes with the cam software you can turn at any angle you want to. Use facing cuts turning cuts or even at a angle to the face. Now with modern software you can even turn with what I will call a trochoidal type of path. The feature doesn't change just the machining strategy of the cycle. If that makes sense. Generally I use turning cuts instead of facing on this machine if possible. This is easier on the insert and a little faster. Particularly on large diameter parts. The spindle doesn't change speed as fast as a small machine or go as high a rpm. So to maintain constant surface speed it ramps the spindle up and down on the facing cuts. When cutting this is harder on the tool. Also when it finishes the cut in the center at high rpm it rapids back to, in this case 16" in diameter. It has to wait for the spindle to slow down before it starts cutting.
Whenever you milled the holes, was there any reason why you didn't keep the head/spindle in one location and index the chuck? You ended up doing half and then indexed 180°. I'm just a slightly curious pretend machinist.
This machine doesn’t have enough travel in the downward direction (X minus) to reach the holes so I did the top half than rotated 180 to get the bottom half. To get the holes to .780 size it’s using a helical motion with the 500” dia end mill.
Edge Precision I think KISSMYACE3203 means why not keep the head in one spot and just index all the holes with the chuck until all are done? I’m curious if it could be done that way.
@@Orgakoyd To answer, it's just quicker the way he did it. X/Y movements are generally faster than X/C movements, especially for operations like drilling because the chuck has to be clamped/declamped at every holes.
Peter the man the myth the legend. My work has 2 Mazak integrex e650s with big plus cat 50 spindles. They were made around the early 2000s, I'm told that they were some of the first ones mazak made. Both of them have weird things about them that work funky. how has your experience with yours been?
@@EdgePrecision When programming some Renishaw probe cycle routines; tool changing from the probe to another tool can cause a soft over travel while in the tool change cycle. a couple other small things. Just was wondering how happy you are with the mazak control and how it functions. Also, do you use the mazatrol tool offsets or the eia ones?
@@FuzzyPanda53 Yes I use the Mazatrol offsets for eia. But to apply the tip comp direction you have to do it in a unusual way that refers back to the eia offsets. So I use only the first 9 eia tool offsets only just for that purpose. It’s kind of hard to explain. I could demonstrate it. I haven’t had any trouble with soft limits in tool changes. But my machine was built in 2006 so maybe they ironed out some problems by then.
@@EdgePrecision Ah great thanks. I would be interested in hearing how you apply the tip comp. We use mastercam at my work and bake the tip comp directly into the program.
Im just wondering , wouldn't it been better just to take a light skim of the OD on first OP? So it easier to make the part run true but i keep this videos up very nices to watch .
There wasn't a lot of stock on the OD of the rough bar in the area of the flange OD. I wanted to use the serrated hard jaws to grip the stock for the heavy roughing cuts. But this might put dents in the finish diameter of the flange. Also using a 4-jaw chuck the part still has to be indicated in anyway so it would not be that much easier to indicate in.
peter i am working on a flange like this 40 times smaller huh? so 3mm base the shaft is 22mm long for a total of 25mm LENGTHwise the first diameter is 25mm the diameter of the base 60mm i had to put a relief /face groove around the shaft for about .5mm deep! the part has bent in. it's no longer flat anymore [at the base]. is it possible to re shape it? ? would you use heat? it's stainless steel 304
You probably should have left stock on the face, to face off after the groove was done. To straighten the existing part. You may if you have a hydraulic press. Make a fixture so the part just sets on the outer edge of the flange. Than a piece to press on the middle of the part. If have to press on the shaft end it may need a hole for the shaft to go in and fit in the face/relief groove you made. So your pushing on this, punch if you will and not the shaft. This may work if you are extremely careful. But for this small of a part wouldn't be easier to just remake it?
Do you have some thumb rule for material stick out ? Usually for 1 " lenght of chucking lenght i go up to 3xD of stick out , just curiois to compare with you! Nice vids, i have a e500h and listening to your videos helped me a lot in the starting of my own shop Thanks a lot
Thanks! This would all depend on what kind of chuck and jaws. The size of the stock and speed I was turning. There really is no rule of thumb. If the stock was 1.0" in diameter I would have no problem sticking it out 6.0". But if it was 16" diameter. To stick it out even 24" (1.5-1) chucking on to only 1.0"? I would have to make sure of the way I chucked it. In a few of my videos I have turned a dovetail connection on the jaws and stock. This in combination with the manual 4-Jaw chuck is a very secure way of holding the stock with a short chuck length. This is a little harder to do with a Hydraulic chuck. Also Hydraulic chucks will lose chucking pressure with speed. Something a manual 4-Jaw chuck doesn't do. So you see there are a lot of variables to consider.
@@EdgePrecision yeah i got an hydraulic chuck i want to change it to a manual chuck for more grip, when i extend too long i reduce my parameters and max rpm but its a pain to never know if it will hold haha
I'm curious, when you interpolate the holes in the flange, how do you decide whether to index the spindle for each hole vs moving the spindle head? Another excellent video!!!
This machine only has minus 10 mm of X axis travel. So when working on the face of a part I have to rotate the C axis if the machine has to travel below that limit. Or I run into the machine limit switch. Now Esprit TNG has a accurate model of the machine and it's travel range. So it will detect this when you run the simulation. You than can give it another C axis solution to keep the machine in it's travel range.
No 10 mm .3937". For milling this isn't really a problem. But for turning it becomes more of a problem. Lets say you are boring a blind hole that is large in diameter but has a bottom face that goes to the centerline. If you use a large bar to bore the hole. you cant back face the flat face at the bottom to centerline. You will run out of travel. You than have to change to a different tool to get to the center and match the two together. Or say you are doing a long large ID with a taper in the bottom. I have run into this before the hole started at around 4" in diameter than at the bottom had a 30 degree tapper that finished at around 1.0" in diameter. It took three different bars to turn that taper to the smaller diameter. All the offsets had to be matched to not have steps in the taper. I wish it had at least 1.5-2.0" of X minus travel.
@@EdgePrecision this id what i was thinking about. 20mm boring bar cant reach x center? This seems like a serious design flaw in such a big machine. They should have given Atleast 50mm. Also for milling is expect the precision to be a bit better with x/y movement than c interpolation. Or is integrex interpolation good enough for this to be unimportant? How much x+ travel does machine have?
Possibly but I have been using it to clean the windows and spraying it on to clean the cameras lens window for years. I think there would be less used if a small controlled amount could be bled into the air line.
It's a bit oftopic, but I'm wondering how your Ballscrews are holding up, since you do roughing and finishing on this machine, I'm asking cause at my work the X-Axis on a rather big horizontal CNC Mill is slightly worn out (after 7 years) and you can see it on the milled surfaces and the axis is a bit "springy", 3 out of 5 Ballscrews get replaced this year, I guess it's not so bad with a lathe cause the Forces go mostly in one direction
As far as I can tell everything is OK on the Mazak. My horizontal mill is 7 years older (Built in 1999) and has done harder roughing than the Mazak and its completely accurate. I would say if your ball screws are wearing out. You need to check if they are getting lubrication. Or maybe the machine has had some bad crashes.
i don't know what it is or what it does but it must be a $20,000 part.....you have a magnificent and fearsome robotic lathe there .... these modern machines are otherworldly ....i'm guessing but it would be interesting to calculate the total amount and cost of electric power it required to machine that item ....i'm guessing it must approach $200 to $300 just for electricity which is the cheapest item in the list of requirements to make something like that........you could probably take on 3 apprentices and charge them $60,000 a year tuition each over 5 years to learn the trade if you wanted the nuisance and bother of teaching in addition to your other jobs.......very well done and after doing it for 35 years you make it look almost easy
This is probably a stupid question Peter but as I am not a machinist but have a interest in machines but anyway is it my imagination or dose the mazak speed up and slow down automatically when you are doing face cuts, and as you have just mentioned about the problem with the lens on the camera what would help for sure would be a ceramic coating to help clear the coolant away I am a car detailer and use it on finished cars to help the water run off, just a thought. Love the video's.
The glass lense cover in my case had a special coating just for that purpose. But it doesn’t last forever in the coolant. I bought the glass from Edmund scientific they work good for a little while. Last time I bought three of them about a year and a half ago. Yes when the machine is in the constant surface speed mode it will keep the surface speed constant up to a rpm limit you set or the maximum speed of the spindle.
@@EdgePrecision I don't know if it's the same stuff then because I have had cars in where the customer has had a go at applying a ceramic coating and made a mess and I have had to use 1500 grit wet and dry to remove what they have done and do it correctly, mind you I haven't ever subjected a car to the coolants you use either so there's that, your mazak is a very impressive machine and even though I only understand about 10% when you are talking and going through the programming I just listen and gradually it makes sense.
@@EdgePrecision there are several available Peter I would pay between $80- $100 but bear in mind that one small bottle can go around a whole car twice I am in Dublin Ireland so don't know any detailer supplier near you the one I use is produced by a company in Holland called Cartech I am sure they would ship it to you but it might be easier to stay local anyone that is into cars would be able to point you in the right direction for sure. Its definitely worth a shot alongside the airblade, that was thinking outside of the box for sure, very simple but clever and it works very well.
We use 2x4 screw together in a T shape with different length with the tail stock. The same way ish celling drywall peoples would do to hold the drywall up in the air...
I asked them if they ever had one fall down. They said yes. So I guess if it stays level/ vertical after the weight is removed it passes. That weight is out at the beams end by the way.
@@EdgePrecision at my old job they tested at 1.5x the capacity I'm fairly certain. All the welders had 1 ton cranes that were tested at 3k lb, 2 tons were at 6k lb. I could be mistaken though. But yeah they measured the amount of deflection at various points at the end of the beam with the full weight on/off.
@@EdgePrecision That will be great. I do enjoy your current videos with the big machine but will also be great to see the smaller machines since they are much easier to obtain than the big one.
I know as you mentioned that cleaning out the coolant is a mission. However I think it could drastically improve the film quality. You know that feeling when you just clean a machine out and there is no tramp oil residue. The machine is really clean and coolant seems to effortlessly drain off without clinging to everything. Just a though, with the go pro air blade and clean coolant I imagine the time you spend filming is much less aswell. I dont know if you ever reshoot any of the filming due to quality but it could save you time in the long run if its something your having to do as a result.
@@douro20 Yh I agree sucking it out and cleaning would help. I imagine at this point its past its prime with a long period of time with tramp oil mixed.
I have just recently purchased a NexJen coolant oil separator just for this purpose. I haven't had time to install it yet. Oil skimmers wont work on this coolant system because most of the tank in under the chip conveyor. we shall see how this thing works. This NexJen seems to be the one people like.
Man... Peter I wish I was in your area, I would come fix that chip conveyor in a heartbeat just to be able to say I met Peter Stanton!
Thank you for the videos.
And I'd bring him a new tee-shirt.
Good for you man. You have your priorities straight.
@@barryboyd7973 helping out Peter for all of the knowledge he has shared would be very high on my priority list yes.
@@wheelitzr2 you fix okumas mazak DMGs?they're all probably hennig anyway
My favorite person in all of the youtube world to watch!! Peter is the man, the myth and the legend!
Yep he is!!!
Feel the same way! Love watching this guy!
Robin Renzetti, Stefan Gotteswinter and Peter are the top three.
.......wizard.....
That is going to be a robust wheel hub for your Toyota. :-)
As allways ....a pleasure to watch! Beeing a non-machinist but technically interestet retired opticien from the Netherlands i can apreciate your skilss and your attitude to your work! Thanks for your many video`s👍👍👍
Thank you again for a most enjoyable and educating video, my machining requirements I can do upon a basic centre lathe. However seeing your efforts and sort of Art is very satisfying. Take care too.
Nice job as always. Thanks for explaining the process.
Excelente trabajo maestro muy buen acabado felicitaciones.
I tried to like the video 3 times because forgot i already liked it. Your atittude is rare here where I live in the UK. Needs more people like you, but i guess that comes from you are the owner of the company and not just an employee who's waiting the end of the shift.
The air coming out of the knife is probably in laminar flow. At the edge of an air stream is the boundary layer. A laminar boundary layer is thinner and has less drag than a turbulent boundary layer, but doesn’t stick to a surface as well. In this case you want the airflow to remain attached to the surface (lens cover), drag isn’t an issue. So I think you’d get better results with a turbulent boundary layer. You can experiment with this by sticking a thin strip of coarse abrasive strip just in front of the air knife exit. That should tip the flow into a more sticky turbulent boundary layer that should clear the lens more effectively. Some gliders have a strip of abrasive on the leading edge to keep the airflow attached to the wing. (Higher drag, but lower stall speed)
That’s interesting. I could even try machining different surfaces on the ramp the air flows down to the lense.
Another great video, thanks for making it.
And that you provide very good technical and specialized information. Thanks
Fantastic content Peter!
Thanks for sharing Mr. Pete!!!!
muy buen video edge precision..gracias por tu tiempo..un saludo y mucha salud
All professional. Thanks Peter!
It amazes me how much force those jaws can grip with to hold a part that heavy that far out of the chuck!! Here I am putting a tailstock in on a little 3x3 part because it feels big lol.
I would never do this with a hydraulic chuck. As speed increases a hydraulic chuck looses clamping force. A manual four jaw chuck doesn’t have this problem. Also remember this part isn’t really that long. It’s just the size that intimidates you. It’s 16” in diameter and only 21.5” long. If you stick your 3” part out around 4.5” it’s about the same relationship.
@@EdgePrecision Yeah, the scale of it messes with me. The aesthetic of a 20" part hanging on by 1" of jaw jumbles my brain. I'm sure there's many thousands of pounds of clamping force with them and is perfectly safe, but it still makes me feel yikes lol.
Perfect process,
Precisely followed.
One more excuse to watch your channel: EXCELLENCE!
very nicely done , i to like the animation of the cutting operation
Great video to watch.Thankyou
I'll watch this video on the weekend, with a high end Whisky 👍🏻😎..... cheers,
Why wait? I’m having some Knob Creek now.
Nice work Pete
I'm with you on the CAM being nicer and safer. I think it's actually not effective overall, too. I don't use a Mazak, but I've found conversational is only useful for the things I could write in straight gcode, and if it's that simple, might as well do that!
We invented CAM systems for a reason! It's the smart thing to use them!
You could use an inline oiler setup to inject Rain-X in to the air line to the camera. Toolmakers use them on their pencil grinders all the time.
I will check into that. Thanks!
just wanted to the exact same thing, good thing i scrolled a bit... :D
That sounds like one of those ideas I should tuck into a grey cell for some point in the future.
I wonder if that would do anything to the coolant?
@@somebodyelse6673 It may but I loose and makeup gallons of coolant every week or two. I think a few ounces of RainX won’t do to much. I have always used it to clean the machines windows.
Yeah my boss tried getting us to use conversational programming it’s much easier to program on a big screen where you can zoom in and you have much more features. Chip impressions scrap parts!
Great video. Thanks. What was the max load on the machine spindle during roughing? How do you balance spindle HP against tool life?
In low range on these parts. I keep a eye on the spindle load reading. It starts at around 48% when it climbs up to around 55-58% I start looking at the chips coming off the tool. generally the tool will not be breaking the chip as well. Throwing off a long stringer or spring shaped shavings. something like that. I will stop and index the insert. this machine has a 60 Hp turning spindle. You have to pay attention to this. If the tool fails it wont stop or overload it will just burn up the tool and part.
Its fun to make that kind of pieces
I usually make pieces between diameter 400-800 and with alot of grooving that takes time but the amount of work that goes in is just fun to do and its time eating 😁
Nice job making that part 👍
Nice work !
Love the videos. I do have a question about indicators on horizontal machines.
When I was trained on a horizontal mill a few years ago, my instructor said that you shouldn't use a normal dial test indicator in the spindle to pick up on holes, because gravity will give you a false reading. To demonstrate, he used a Noga Mag Base on a piece of flat stock, zeroed the indicator on the steel and turned the whole apparatus upside down. Sure enough, it drooped about .001. To get around it, I was told a co-axial indicator never has this issue.
Have you run into this sort of problem on the Mazak or Mits? Do you think it's a lack of rigidity in the Noga Arm or an inherent issue in the mechanism of the dial test indicator?
Thanks for making great content!
Your instructor is correct. What ever indicator and arm you use has to be tested for this. Any mag base arm combination I have found is useless. What I use is a the short Noga arm with a Interapid vertical dial indicator. The old Noga arms had a small clamp knob like you see in this video. The new ones have this large knob. I don’t like that. The arm should mount in a collet chuck and be short. The stylus pressure/force of the indicator needs to be light/low. This can contribute to the error. The Interapid indicator has a very low force. The only co-axial indicator I would use is the Hamer Centro. All the others I have tried aren’t in my opinion accurate enough. But it does cost around $600.00. Also I can’t run the spindle with the doors open on the Mazak. So a co-axial indicator would have to be turned by hand. Not the most ideal but doable.
@@EdgePrecision Thanks for the reply! I'll do some more testing with it next time I need to indicate on a bore. Always worth trying to learn something new.
Good job Peter.
I'm a 1 man, 1 machine shop too and my wife is always telling me that making the part to its tolerances is fine enough but I sometime get carried away as well and want that dim as close to target as my body will allow
There is a balance going on between your perfectionism and making money. At some point you have to say that’s good enough.
Ohh man. To be honest. I dont have time to make parts better than required 😂
@@nikolaiownz hahaha, tell me about! It's a nice day when the part comes out exactly smack on but tolerances where made for a reason
For the rainex, maybe a standard air line lubricator would do the job, maybe even a full FRL (filter regulator lubricator). Off the shelf solution to inject small amounts of fluid into the air stream.
Thanks for another very entertaining and informative video. I wanted to ask you about your choice of finishing insert, I noticed that you (and other UA-cam machinests) use a VNMG style insert for finishing and was wondering why? I prefer a TNMG style as they seem stronger and give 6 edges instead of only 4.
Actually the insert I use is a VBMT. The positive rake 35 deg diamond. I use this insert because it can cut down a 45 deg back angle. The VNMG doesn’t have clearance for this. It will rub the lower cutting edge unless you grind it away. Kind of defeats the four cutting edge advantage. This is very often required with thread reliefs in oil field parts. Also I like is because if shavings get wrapped up between the part and the tool it has more clearance on its back side. This has less of a tendency to mar the finish of the part. The TNMG of course won’t go down as steep back angle that I require.
Part looks good Peter, nice job. +1 on the inline oiler for the rain-x I bet that would work.
Hello! As always.. very nice video!
Having that conveyor down will turn you tough as nails especially on a lathe .25doc at .015 that’s a heavy shovel haha that reminds me I use to have to crawl into a fadal 40x20 to shovel chips out because the company saved a “ton of money not buying the chip conveyor option ”
That makes me wonder what kind of shape the way covers are in, because once they fill up with chips you start crushing them.
Nicely done! Cheers!;-)!
Thank you for yours knowledge!
Thanks Peter for the video. It was a kind nerve breaking when the spindle ramp up in speed for center cut :-) . When cutting away such a massive part of material will it need heat treatment for internal tensions ? or the material is stable so it will not spontaneous release tensions.
This material is pre heat treated. I won’t get any post heat treat. It also didn’t appear to have a lot of stress in it this time. Every heat of material is always different. Some better than others.
Nice work quality is king always
So many great things in this video a real treasure trove and very clear and lucid. Really liked the roughing footage; cool idea with the rainx + air knife. I've wondered if its possible to pulse the coolant somehow (in particular instances ) so you can synch your frame rate almost stroboscopically (24 to 60 fps) so that the phasing can be such that you see the actual cut mostly without coolant even though the surface is receiving coolant. Perhaps better than cutting dry for didactic purposes. I really liked the footage showing the near mayhem of the rough cuts - really enjoyable to see that. ALSO really appreciate the split frame showing the inserts - genius ! (Really helpful - rough and finish.). Also CAM strategies and programming for different less obvious tool paths to fit much more appropriately the torque of the spindle. [I'm defiantly going to have to steal that approach :-) .]. At the end I really liked how you just walked with the camera round the corner of the machine and into the work area and main spindle looking down into the length of the machine (towards the tail stock) and then pivot to the main spindle and the craned part: it gives a really GOOD 3D feel to the whole space, the machine, the space occupied by the machine and the whole "human" working space that you have yourself jammed in there like a space capsule/space station - in "One take". You probably take that for granted but the wide angle lens and walkabout that way was really cool and creates a REAL feeling of the space. [Thanks so much for making this - really good visual and technical explanation that holds one's attention all the way to the end - definitely appreciate the time and effort and thoughtful explanations / edits. Awesome ! ].
Wow long comment thanks! The issue with pulsing the coolant is it takes many seconds to bleed down. So if it was pulsed you would never see it. A interesting idea though.
@@EdgePrecision I was wondering about a simple case (visually just for fun) with a coolant nozzle that had some kind of pulsing / interruption gizmo. Maybe I mock something up. There's a lot of videos out there that show stroboscopic individual droplets of a stream that have a surprisingly regular "Periodicity" and appear stationary and yet their phasing can be adjusted / dialed in. [The stream appears contiguous to the normal eye but its really not, its a collection of regularly spaced flying droplets.]. But yeah I understand-ish the basic TSC (high pressure) and other flood coolant / dishwasher "Mode" mayhem and pretty fast "Balls out" to the wall production work. Awesome to see all those extra shots and angles cut together in your video - really nice. Thanks again !
@@EdgePrecision 'ere ~ Like this ---> ua-cam.com/video/4XkywLza-9E/v-deo.html
So not surprisingly if you keep making these Machining videos then you will need special "In camera" SFX (special effects) ;-)
If you google "Strobe light" and "water droplets" you'll find more videos. So a bit like doing on a boring operation on an interrupted cut/ geometry, a strobed water droplet stream or maybe higher pressure "chopper" means you can find a close up camera angle "In cut" with coolant doing it's job but the strobing of the cut makes the coolant be almost invisible / out of the way as you can dial away the closest drop to the desired position / spacing. Maybe for special particular sequences you want to capture. Perhaps not for everyday coolant shooting lol. Have been interested in your small camera housing work - really cool.
Hi Peter.
Keep up The Very Interesting Good Work as I know it can be a pain when you are continually working on heavy Stock however even though I've been retired for many years back in The late 60s &70s I had a bit to do with A Swiss Tape Controlled Jig Borer however when machining Stock in Lathes we would always take a skim to break The Skin which was also beneficial if The Work happened to move.
Cheers.
Brian
you are the best, man!
Peter now mast teach adom79 cnc programming and machining. From the time he decided to learning, he mast learn from the grand master. Greetings from Greece.
Nice t-shirt =D. Good work.
Thank you for sharing
Peter, you must put the games with shovel in video! It would be so funny! Thanks for excellent job.
Hey there,
Thanks for your time doing this video, it is very educational. I’m so curious to know about the cost of machining of these parts, I know lots of factors come into play when it comes to estimates this kind of perfect job.
Thanks.
I hope you'll understand when I tell you. I don't like to go into the actual cost of a real job. I often get my jobs thru my old shop Centerline. I don't think it would be fair to them to do so. In estimating a job. After adding up the expenses you know. Like material and outside processes and possible tooling. The only thing left is what your willing to work for. In the end this is the time it takes and what that costs. You can separate the setup/programming time. Than divide it by the number of parts. Than add up all three and that's the cost. It seems simple doesn't it. But there's the final cost. Here is where you have to decide. Can I get the job for that? A'm I willing to take chances, or risk a little more, on a unseen circumstance. In the end you have to do jobs and succeed and fail to know what is practicable (for you) to quote. I do have a video where I discuss this. "My thoughts on quoting jobs". But the final word is. Its your best guess for your situation.
What spindle speed do you lock the max rpm at? That is a massive workpiece.
When roughing in low range it can’t go above 460. But when most of the material is removed on this part. I limited it to 1000 rpm in high range. The machine can only turn 1600 in high range.
you just answered my question about mazitrol verse esprie you are applying the same logic that I use Thanks
What's your DOC at 14:16?
I am making nearly the same part as you. I have the flange on the front, and holding the body with a FlexC collet chuck.
Using a 1.5in solid boring bar with CNMG 432.. it chatters real bad. I might just have to pickup an anti-vibe bar... they're so bloody expensive. I'm hoping I can find the sweet spot feed/doc.
Well Done!
How 'flat' are the jaw faces relative to each other jaw?
I apologise if you have already covered this earlier.
that flat how you turn them .
Very interesting, thanks.
I designed a similar thing eight years ago and wrote a technological process for its manufacture. The problem was that we did not have such CNC equipment in production and we had to sharpen the shaft separately, and then cut out the flange on laser cutting, and then weld it to the shaft using shielding gas welding. And then turn the flange assembly with the shaft on a universal lathe in manual mode. But turning did not remove the residual beats, they still remained above the norm. With such equipment and a program, it would be possible to obtain a part with high accuracy.
I also use that rain x on my lynx 2100 window so the coolant rolls off. It dont last but a day or two but it works!
When I'm indicating in on a 4-jaw and have to bang on the part next to the dial indicator. I'll slightly pick up the indicator point off the work piece, so it doesn't shock the indicator. Of course, I do strictly manual machining. Enjoy watching your videos, Ken.
This can be done with a 1" travel indicator. It would be difficult without disturbing the setting of a last word type indicator. Also I like to leave the indicator in contact with the work to see the movement when I strike the workpiece.
Peter I would really be interested in how you setup you tool offsets on the Mazak. In the tool data page or tool offsets? And the what settings you use in you cam software. Also how you setup a tool in your cam with holders and what not.
Doesn’t have to be anything too special but if you could please make a video detailing some of this I would be really grateful.
So far I’ve just been learning as I go on my integrex and due to having another Mazak lathe mazatrol was easy to pickup. But this is my first time trying to use eia code and Im getting all kinds of odd things like diameters coming out way off size and other strange things.
The Compac extended travel indicators are a bit more expensive but I like the dials on them better. They have an impressive amount of shock resistance.
I have never used a Compac indicator. So I cant make a comparison. But as to every indicator I have use the Interapid indicator has been the best. The Compac is only a little more say $30-40 more than the Interapid I use. Shock resistance isn't my main criteria. Its stylus force. The Interapid has a very low force. This comes into play using a indicator in the horizontal spindle position.
Holding heavy blanks to chuck-jaw can be assisted by T-slots & clamps, saving the other precision components.
Adjusting back flange & OD runout, T-slots & Jack Screw, saves the whacking while using 2 indicator setup. Observing each adjustment / movement. Saves what is left of our strength 😌!
Old Skool
Funny you should say that. One of my viewers that’s here locally. He made me some and brought them to me.
@@EdgePrecision Old Skool 1st Job: Warner-Swasey 24" Turret Lathe, File Board, Hook Scale & Calipers for rough casting, Tubing & Casing Heads W/Ring Groves!
Your New School, makes the old guy drool.😂
We do parts similar to those we call them tophats we do them on a vtl wish the would use a bigger drill than they do. Great video
How often would you say you program machined chamfers on your milled features such as holes that are interpolated or things that are milled? I know in a previous comment you said you normally do not just because its an extra step to potentially scrap an expensive part and setting the tools up. On my parts i program i usually chamfer every feature that i can get to, although thats usually prodution work.
I think milling chamfers has its place. I have in the past done so. But if I’m not making but a few parts out of expensive material with no setup material. I will let the deburr guys take care of those corners.
@@EdgePrecision fair enough. I just usually find that the machined chamfers result in a better looking part overall than hand done deburring but i dont work with the value of material you do. I usually have the luxury of a setup part to fine tune my chamfer and fillets and such.
Another awesome video thks it's lots of learning for someone who have no idea how to set something like that up ...O ya how's the pick up bed coming along ..
The truck is done. It occurred to me I never posed any photos of the finished truck. Go to my Instagram I will post some photos.
how do you know that the material that you are making the part out of is "completely round" and that it will be able to get a low run out on the dial indicator?
If you turned a diameter it should be round. There are things that could influence this such as bad spindle bearings chuck pressure on a tubular part. But in general if the part is solid round bar and you turned it on your machine it is round. It should indicate round with no run-out if centered on the spindle.
Can you purchase a rough casting closer to the dimensions? Or is it not possible? Is it cost effective to have a cut off pieces where you just mill them? Thank you for educating on the process of set ups, milling, and finishing a part.
Castings require patterns to make. For this small quantity it’s not cost effective. Also a casting in this case is not strong enough. The turning is faster than milling.
You can purchase a forging, just need a big lead time and lots of money.
When I put the part in the lathe (hanging from the crane) I always liked for the part to be slightly higher on the tail stock end, doing this works as you lower the part into the jaws the part will stay in place using gravity, you don’t need to hold the part with a tail stock or turret.
hey peter,
your 418 sfm is that on your G96 line? Whats your G50 set to? same with your 750sfm
In low range the machine cant go over 460 Rpm So its really not a problem. But I set it at 500 for low I high range it depends on the part. If I'm taking a face cut on this part The first one with the whole stock I leave it in low range. But doing finish cuts when the part is lighter in weight I use high range. On the OD tools I limit it to 1000. On the ID tools I let it go to the maxim of 1600. Unless I'm in the steady rest than I would limit it to around 500. You can damage the bearing in the arms going to high a Rpm when holding bigger diameters in the steady rest boring a small ID.
Thanks for showing all the raw video, your ideas are really helpful for me When I am machining something,
Can you please show us something based on probing cycle on your mazatrol integrex
There is a video I did on some castings on the Mazak where I used the spindle probe. look at the play list Casting Tong Wrench. I think the Mazak Final Operation video may show that.
@@EdgePrecision thanks sir for your reply . Your way of solving problems always surprise me , please keep uploading,
Love the air cooling holes in the shirt! I have so many that are like that as well. :-)
It’s not on purpose but I like that shirt. I don’t want to retire it yet.
@@EdgePrecision Yeah, why throw out a perfectly working shirt, totally agree. I have some too. :)
Отличная работа
You are the best teacher I have ever seen.
I will give you my best wishes.
In which city is your workshop?
Am i able to ask...but say if you need to modify the program to do tapers and or radius G03 or G02 without cutter compensation do you edit the program manually or do you edit the program using the CAM software?
I prefer to do all modifications in the cam software. For a couple of reasons. One is to avoid big mistakes in entering incorrect numbers. But the main reason is if I change the program in another place or way and reprocess code. If I did changes manually I would have to remember all of them and go back and redo them all.
I like to play these longer videos when I'm puttering with desk/hand work stuff.
Just listening to 40:13, and thought "what if you completely filled your mazak enclosure with clear oil, then we could see much better" haha
Where do the chips go inside the spindle bore? Great video!
Just in the bore. I have to stage them out. I have a plug in the end of the bore.
Great video as always! Do you have any idea what it is you're making?
In this case I do know what they do. But to get permission to make these videos I had to agree I would not say. Sorry.
@@EdgePrecision No worries at all. I'm a mechanical design engineer so I got curious. Keep up the great videos!
What is your max spindle speed set at?
where do the chips go when they get into the spindle?
I wonder how you would do these setups with hydraulic chucks would it be easier and more convenient or is it gonna cost more since you have to machine soft jaws for the specific diameter and is there a way to adjust runout on a hydraulic chuck I know you don't use them because they are so big and it creates clearance problems and that's why you are using this smaller 4 jaw chuck
Yes. This machine normally mounts a 21" Kitagawa chuck. What I did is buy a 16" manual 4-jaw chuck with the same mount as the Kitagawa chuck. Than it was just bolt it on the spindle. Another thing we have done is chuck onto a manual chuck in the hydraulic chuck. If your chuck isn't large enough for that. Bolt a short straight shank on the 4-jaw and chuck that in the hydraulic chuck.
Curious if there is a program or feature that will allow you to turn a dish face like a manual lathe was meant to. Cheers.
Yes with the cam software you can turn at any angle you want to. Use facing cuts turning cuts or even at a angle to the face. Now with modern software you can even turn with what I will call a trochoidal type of path. The feature doesn't change just the machining strategy of the cycle. If that makes sense. Generally I use turning cuts instead of facing on this machine if possible. This is easier on the insert and a little faster. Particularly on large diameter parts. The spindle doesn't change speed as fast as a small machine or go as high a rpm. So to maintain constant surface speed it ramps the spindle up and down on the facing cuts. When cutting this is harder on the tool. Also when it finishes the cut in the center at high rpm it rapids back to, in this case 16" in diameter. It has to wait for the spindle to slow down before it starts cutting.
Whenever you milled the holes, was there any reason why you didn't keep the head/spindle in one location and index the chuck? You ended up doing half and then indexed 180°.
I'm just a slightly curious pretend machinist.
This machine doesn’t have enough travel in the downward direction (X minus) to reach the holes so I did the top half than rotated 180 to get the bottom half. To get the holes to .780 size it’s using a helical motion with the 500” dia end mill.
Edge Precision I think KISSMYACE3203 means why not keep the head in one spot and just index all the holes with the chuck until all are done? I’m curious if it could be done that way.
@@Orgakoyd Yes it could be done in that way.
@@Orgakoyd To answer, it's just quicker the way he did it. X/Y movements are generally faster than X/C movements, especially for operations like drilling because the chuck has to be clamped/declamped at every holes.
@@shadowdsfire Thanks. I didn't think abut the chuck clamping!
Dude, please don’t worry so much about what we nosy onlookers can see… the important thing is getting it right 👍
Peter the man the myth the legend.
My work has 2 Mazak integrex e650s with big plus cat 50 spindles. They were made around the early 2000s, I'm told that they were some of the first ones mazak made. Both of them have weird things about them that work funky. how has your experience with yours been?
What weird things?
@@EdgePrecision When programming some Renishaw probe cycle routines; tool changing from the probe to another tool can cause a soft over travel while in the tool change cycle. a couple other small things. Just was wondering how happy you are with the mazak control and how it functions. Also, do you use the mazatrol tool offsets or the eia ones?
@@FuzzyPanda53 Yes I use the Mazatrol offsets for eia. But to apply the tip comp direction you have to do it in a unusual way that refers back to the eia offsets. So I use only the first 9 eia tool offsets only just for that purpose. It’s kind of hard to explain. I could demonstrate it. I haven’t had any trouble with soft limits in tool changes. But my machine was built in 2006 so maybe they ironed out some problems by then.
@@EdgePrecision Ah great thanks. I would be interested in hearing how you apply the tip comp. We use mastercam at my work and bake the tip comp directly into the program.
Im just wondering , wouldn't it been better just to take a light skim of the OD on first OP? So it easier to make the part run true but i keep this videos up very nices to watch .
There wasn't a lot of stock on the OD of the rough bar in the area of the flange OD. I wanted to use the serrated hard jaws to grip the stock for the heavy roughing cuts. But this might put dents in the finish diameter of the flange. Also using a 4-jaw chuck the part still has to be indicated in anyway so it would not be that much easier to indicate in.
peter i am working on a flange like this 40 times smaller huh?
so 3mm base the shaft is 22mm long for a total of 25mm LENGTHwise the first diameter is 25mm the diameter of the base 60mm
i had to put a relief /face groove around the shaft for about .5mm deep!
the part has bent in. it's no longer flat anymore [at the base]. is it possible to re shape it? ? would you use heat?
it's stainless steel 304
You probably should have left stock on the face, to face off after the groove was done. To straighten the existing part. You may if you have a hydraulic press. Make a fixture so the part just sets on the outer edge of the flange. Than a piece to press on the middle of the part. If have to press on the shaft end it may need a hole for the shaft to go in and fit in the face/relief groove you made. So your pushing on this, punch if you will and not the shaft. This may work if you are extremely careful. But for this small of a part wouldn't be easier to just remake it?
Do you have some thumb rule for material stick out ? Usually for 1 " lenght of chucking lenght i go up to 3xD of stick out , just curiois to compare with you!
Nice vids, i have a e500h and listening to your videos helped me a lot in the starting of my own shop
Thanks a lot
Thanks! This would all depend on what kind of chuck and jaws. The size of the stock and speed I was turning. There really is no rule of thumb. If the stock was 1.0" in diameter I would have no problem sticking it out 6.0". But if it was 16" diameter. To stick it out even 24" (1.5-1) chucking on to only 1.0"? I would have to make sure of the way I chucked it. In a few of my videos I have turned a dovetail connection on the jaws and stock. This in combination with the manual 4-Jaw chuck is a very secure way of holding the stock with a short chuck length. This is a little harder to do with a Hydraulic chuck. Also Hydraulic chucks will lose chucking pressure with speed. Something a manual 4-Jaw chuck doesn't do. So you see there are a lot of variables to consider.
@@EdgePrecision yeah i got an hydraulic chuck i want to change it to a manual chuck for more grip, when i extend too long i reduce my parameters and max rpm but its a pain to never know if it will hold haha
I'm curious, when you interpolate the holes in the flange, how do you decide whether to index the spindle for each hole vs moving the spindle head? Another excellent video!!!
This machine only has minus 10 mm of X axis travel. So when working on the face of a part I have to rotate the C axis if the machine has to travel below that limit. Or I run into the machine limit switch. Now Esprit TNG has a accurate model of the machine and it's travel range. So it will detect this when you run the simulation. You than can give it another C axis solution to keep the machine in it's travel range.
@@EdgePrecision I see, that makes sense. Really appreciate you taking time to reply, and make videos! Thanks!
@@EdgePrecision 10mm only? 100mm?
No 10 mm .3937". For milling this isn't really a problem. But for turning it becomes more of a problem. Lets say you are boring a blind hole that is large in diameter but has a bottom face that goes to the centerline. If you use a large bar to bore the hole. you cant back face the flat face at the bottom to centerline. You will run out of travel. You than have to change to a different tool to get to the center and match the two together. Or say you are doing a long large ID with a taper in the bottom. I have run into this before the hole started at around 4" in diameter than at the bottom had a 30 degree tapper that finished at around 1.0" in diameter. It took three different bars to turn that taper to the smaller diameter. All the offsets had to be matched to not have steps in the taper. I wish it had at least 1.5-2.0" of X minus travel.
@@EdgePrecision this id what i was thinking about. 20mm boring bar cant reach x center? This seems like a serious design flaw in such a big machine. They should have given Atleast 50mm. Also for milling is expect the precision to be a bit better with x/y movement than c interpolation. Or is integrex interpolation good enough for this to be unimportant?
How much x+ travel does machine have?
Would the rain-x get mixed with the lubricant? Will it not be detrimental?
Possibly but I have been using it to clean the windows and spraying it on to clean the cameras lens window for years. I think there would be less used if a small controlled amount could be bled into the air line.
It's a bit oftopic, but I'm wondering how your Ballscrews are holding up, since you do roughing and finishing on this machine, I'm asking cause at my work the X-Axis on a rather big horizontal CNC Mill is slightly worn out (after 7 years) and you can see it on the milled surfaces and the axis is a bit "springy", 3 out of 5 Ballscrews get replaced this year, I guess it's not so bad with a lathe cause the Forces go mostly in one direction
As far as I can tell everything is OK on the Mazak. My horizontal mill is 7 years older (Built in 1999) and has done harder roughing than the Mazak and its completely accurate. I would say if your ball screws are wearing out. You need to check if they are getting lubrication. Or maybe the machine has had some bad crashes.
i don't know what it is or what it does but it must be a $20,000 part.....you have a magnificent and fearsome robotic lathe there .... these modern machines are otherworldly ....i'm guessing but it would be interesting to calculate the total amount and cost of electric power it required to machine that item ....i'm guessing it must approach $200 to $300 just for electricity which is the cheapest item in the list of requirements to make something like that........you could probably take on 3 apprentices and charge them $60,000 a year tuition each over 5 years to learn the trade if you wanted the nuisance and bother of teaching in addition to your other jobs.......very well done and after doing it for 35 years you make it look almost easy
Peter, for your rainex, try and oil fog lubricator - like the use in compressed air systems.
for the spray idea: maybe you can get/make an adapter that functions with the venturi effect. might just be the perfect solution.
Pretty, thanks.
This is probably a stupid question Peter but as I am not a machinist but have a interest in machines but anyway is it my imagination or dose the mazak speed up and slow down automatically when you are doing face cuts, and as you have just mentioned about the problem with the lens on the camera what would help for sure would be a ceramic coating to help clear the coolant away I am a car detailer and use it on finished cars to help the water run off, just a thought. Love the video's.
The glass lense cover in my case had a special coating just for that purpose. But it doesn’t last forever in the coolant. I bought the glass from
Edmund scientific they work good for a little while. Last time I bought three of them about a year and a half ago. Yes when the machine is in the constant surface speed mode it will keep the surface speed constant up to a rpm limit you set or the maximum speed of the spindle.
@@EdgePrecision I don't know if it's the same stuff then because I have had cars in where the customer has had a go at applying a ceramic coating and made a mess and I have had to use 1500 grit wet and dry to remove what they have done and do it correctly, mind you I haven't ever subjected a car to the coolants you use either so there's that, your mazak is a very impressive machine and even though I only understand about 10% when you are talking and going through the programming I just listen and gradually it makes sense.
@@jerrooney8714 I would like to try it. Where can I get some.
@@EdgePrecision there are several available Peter I would pay between $80- $100 but bear in mind that one small bottle can go around a whole car twice I am in Dublin Ireland so don't know any detailer supplier near you the one I use is produced by a company in Holland called Cartech I am sure they would ship it to you but it might be easier to stay local anyone that is into cars would be able to point you in the right direction for sure. Its definitely worth a shot alongside the airblade, that was thinking outside of the box for sure, very simple but clever and it works very well.
For the rain x you could probably put in an inline air oiler
We use 2x4 screw together in a T shape with different length with the tail stock. The same way ish celling drywall peoples would do to hold the drywall up in the air...
Use the ceramic coating that u apply with a small sponge to the camera lens
It's for auto paint protection
Works miracles on glass
The original billet weight 900 lb, right? So, what did the finished part weigh?
In the previous video on this part it says in the thumbnail 133 lbs.
Crane test question. By loading it 125% are they looking for a failure? Or how do they test, deflection in the boom ?
I asked them if they ever had one fall down. They said yes. So I guess if it stays level/ vertical after the weight is removed it passes. That weight is out at the beams end by the way.
@@EdgePrecision at my old job they tested at 1.5x the capacity I'm fairly certain. All the welders had 1 ton cranes that were tested at 3k lb, 2 tons were at 6k lb. I could be mistaken though.
But yeah they measured the amount of deflection at various points at the end of the beam with the full weight on/off.
Do you still have your smaller Haas machines if so are we going to see them in your future videos?
Yes they are still in my garage. I’m sure there will be some videos with them.
@@EdgePrecision That will be great. I do enjoy your current videos with the big machine but will also be great to see the smaller machines since they are much easier to obtain than the big one.
I know as you mentioned that cleaning out the coolant is a mission. However I think it could drastically improve the film quality. You know that feeling when you just clean a machine out and there is no tramp oil residue. The machine is really clean and coolant seems to effortlessly drain off without clinging to everything.
Just a though, with the go pro air blade and clean coolant I imagine the time you spend filming is much less aswell. I dont know if you ever reshoot any of the filming due to quality but it could save you time in the long run if its something your having to do as a result.
There's an air-powered machine for cleaning it. It's available for rent from Safety-Kleen.
@@douro20 Yh I agree sucking it out and cleaning would help. I imagine at this point its past its prime with a long period of time with tramp oil mixed.
I have just recently purchased a NexJen coolant oil separator just for this purpose. I haven't had time to install it yet. Oil skimmers wont work on this coolant system because most of the tank in under the chip conveyor. we shall see how this thing works. This NexJen seems to be the one people like.