Hello, project coordinator here. Thanks Nicholas and the entire ShortCircuit team for putting together a nice video covering the Brand New Model F Keyboard! It is great to get the word out about these great keyboards that definitely take some getting used to! Kindly see my replies to some of the notes brought up in the video: The pinginess / reverberation: Some folks that prefer a Model F board without the higher pitch sounds. The best thing about buckling spring keyboards is the a longstanding community that has come up with various repair and maintenance step by step guides and mods, including the Floss Mod and the grease mod, to reduce or eliminate the high-pitch / pinginess while typing. My guess is that the main reason for the pinginess is the super thick steel plates reverberating inside the keyboard. Why True Red? Well it's the Pantone designation for the particular shade of red. The factory prefers Pantone references when doing the finishing. Recessed keys: The reason for the extra recessed keys for a couple of the rows is that the Ultra Compact F104 case top in the video is flat and the Model F and Model M design require a curved plate inside the keyboard. One result of this is that the key profiles are all uniform and a key can be installed on the various rows. The Model M style F104, FSSK, and F122 cases are all curved where the keys are, just like the IBM originals, so the keys will stick out more evenly. Casting: The Ultra Compact cases for the F104 and FSSK were CNC milled and have 3 main parts, while the ultra compact cases for the F62 and F77 keyboards are die cast, while the first rounds of the compact F62/F77 boards were CNC milled. The Model M style case Model F keyboards all have die cast cases. Regarding the low serials, they are mainly there to allow folks to offer a little extra support to help cover the tens of thousands of dollars in project cost overruns, the near-endless express air mail sample charges over the years, etc. Many folks also like a custom serial because it allows them to pick a date for the production date, like their birthday or an anniversary of some date. In the Model M community forums it is always notable to get a board made the same year you were born, or if you were lucky, on your actual birthday (and actual birth year too!).
@@McLovinMods The keyboard is a Model F keyboard, which uses the same capacitive buckling spring technology as the original IBM Model F keyboard. The similarity with the Model M is that the layout is same as the Model M keyboards that came out after the Model F. The Model M was actually IBM's effort to cut two-thirds of the cost out of their Model F which originally went for $600 in the early 80s, adjusted for inflation. The Model F produces a much crisper sound with each key press as it has a much larger flipper that snaps against a huge PCB underneath all of the keys.
@@screwb1882Yes that is offered on the project web site - I recommend heading over there to see details and photos. The TKL model is called the FSSK, named after the IBM 84 key SSK.
There was a cracking article in the early 90s that was headlined “Where have all the good keyboards gone?” or “what happened to all the good keyboards?”, something like that. I think that pretty much sums up what happened
Thats been my mentality. Late 90s i Learned to type on old worn Model Ms or similar keyboards. They were just keyboards to me. So their reverence still surprises me.
The thing about buckling spring keyboards that made them so popular with gamers etc is they are infinitely repairable. The only thing that is ever going to fail on them is that spring and it can be replaced with ease on many kbs that used them the spring sat n a metal peg that was the contact and then completed the circuit by touching a contact on the side to replace one pull the key cap use tweezers to put out the spring replace with new one put cap back on done
Going over this video, I think there's a few mistakes, so here are my thoughts and clarifications for viewers. 1:58 - "Apple IIs" - On screen, an Apple Extended Keyboard II was shown. The Apple Keyboard II was something else and intended for Apple Macintoshes, not even Apple II *computers* that had separate keyboards like the Apple IIGS. 2:30 - Shown reviews on Model Ms - Model Fs and Ms both use buckling springs, but there are some fundamental differences (from how presses are registered down to the number of spring coils). IMO, this distinction should have at least been briefly clarified. So, those reviews are of a keyboard with a switch that is known to feel slightly differently *and* is known to sound lower pitched. Whilst I love both Model Fs and Ms and they're in many ways similar, IMO, the reviews shown are not 100% reflective of this keyboard or its OG counterparts. 2:41 - Like above, comparing "old Model Ms" to brand new Model Fs is a bit problematic, especially trying to relate it to "age". The difference you may have felt wasn't age at all; Model Fs and Ms were always a bit different back in the '80s and today. 3:27 - "spring buckles and connects on the side of the switch". If by "connects" they mean connection to actuate, that's not how that works. When the spring buckles, it forces a plate on the bottom of the switch (called a flipper/rocker) to press down on a capacitance-sensing PCB (Model F) or membrane (Model M). 3:49 - "maybe add some foam... couple layers of tape". To get rid of the ping, the "floss mod" is a well-documented (and reversible) thing to do. It involves putting strings of dental floss inside the springs to stop them from resonating. A basic search should've found that for them before recommending (IMO) more awkward options. 7:57 - "calling it true red which is a little weird". It's named after the PANTONE name, but it seems the company themselves has already said that. 9:36 - "sculpted, almost SA if not actually SA". These keycaps are neither. When opened, you can see that the inner assembly itself is curved, allowing for the uniform not sculpted keycaps to be interchanged on any row. The keycaps' tops are cylindrical shaped, not spherical like SA would be. 11:38 - "rose tinted glasses". IMO, this may be sort of unfair. I was born after Model F production was believed to be finished, and I have no issue with them. In fact, there are a lot of younger people on various Discords and subreddits dedicated to IBM keyboards. Contrary to the end sentiment, AFAIK, the New Model F project didn't start to try introducing Fs to people, it became a thing because Model Fs already had fans in the modern day but the OG IBM 4704 F62 and F77 keyboards were difficult to find and costly. This F104 is just a new take to capitalise on the F62/F77's success. As someone who runs a website/wiki on IBM keyboards, /r/modelm and its Discord, I always get 'nervous sweats' with big videos on IBM/vintage keyboards since these misconceptions can be repeated, spread and then we have to deal with stuff "but, this big outlet said otherwise". It's happened. I absolutely respect Plouffe's opinion on not liking the sound or vintage keyboards (despite us getting dismissed as having "rose tinted glasses"), I just think a little more research would have helped the factual basis of the video. I get ShortCircuit is not meant to be ultra scripted and I don't think the set had a teleprompter to help when I saw it in tour videos, but I don't think that's reason not to have a quick look online about what's being discussed. My two cents.
@@thetamsin Model M uses a membrane. Model F uses a PCB. Regardless, both are considered very much "mechanical" in the general sense of the enthusiast terminology compared to typical rubber dome keyboards.
@@thetamsin what the government wo't tell you is that just inside that shell of the model f is a dell keyboard with rubber domes that the buckle springs actuate
@@hudsongreen2654 actually, in 1983, the chairman of the International Standards Organization, Dr. James Garfield, released a list of rules for "mechanical" switches. The IBM Model F broke 34 of them. For more information google "garfield rule 34"
Buckling springs aren't really about the sound. It's all about the feel. If you want something vintage that sounds and feels good the Alps switches are where it's at. The big problem with the alps switches being the design made them super prone to getting gunked up internally and when that happened they functioned much more poorly. So a lot of folks that used them never experienced what they actually felt like when properly cared for.
3:29 Is not entirely true. Buckling springs don't actuate by making electrical contact with the side of the housing, that's a common misconception. The springs are connected to a lever at the bottom of the switch that does that actuation. In the Model M the lever pushes on a membrane, similar to how a modern rubber dome works. On the Model F the lever is connected to a capacitive mechanism.
Not to mention that Unicomps are like the latests Model Ms released, cheaper, lighter and clumsier than the old units from the 80s. Both having the same buckling springs, the difference in typing is there.
You should try typing on a Model M that's in good shape. While Unicomp's keyboards are far better than the crappy $35 keyboard with the rubber dome switches, their build quality is very poor (I'm typing on one of the two I own right now). Also, n-key rollover is almost nonexistent and I see keypresses being dropped frequently when I'm typing fast. I can't wait to get my new Model F.
@@ratsputin69 Have you tried some of the newer Unicomp keyboards, they are supposed to have been getting better the last few years. Not as good as a Model F of course but still really good.
6:30 That's silly. Buckling springs are one of the most tactile switches that exist - far more tactile than any cherry switch. This is objectively demonstrated on the force curves. Would also have been nice if you went over how it's capacitive sensing, NKRO (unlike a Model M), programmability options, etc.
lol buckling springs are the definition of tactile. The buckling of the spring (the "tactile event") directly corresponds to the actuation of the switch. This channel is so dumb.
I get where he's coming from. Conventional tactile switches have a bit of resistance before the actuation point, then a drop. Buckling springs only have the drop. Before and after the actuation point, they do feel almost like linear switches. It's a little interesting to hear an outsider's thoughts, but I agree that this review is pretty uninformed. Someone like Chyrosran22 who actually fundamentally understands these technologies would serve us all a lot better; too much info is better than too little.
After the Model M, IBM briefly had a Model M2 on the market for a few years which is quite rare these days. My first PC (IBM PS-1 386) used the M2 and is basically a smaller version of the Model M but also with buckling springs. Sadly enough these were known to die because of the caps on the control board and taking them apart was HARD. There were no screws - it was all done by plastic tabs. On 30+ year old plastic this is not great. Of course you also need to remove all the key caps first. Me, being a masochist, did exactly that. I removed all the caps, managed to open up the keyboard without breaking off any of the plastic tabs, collected all 102 springs inside, removed the board, recapped it and then started the painstaking process of re-inserting all 102 springs and closing it back up. I had to repeat this THREE TIMES because each time a spring was slightly misaligned making a key not work. In the end I now have a working IBM Model M2 keyboard which is small in size but gives an authentic IBM experience. Be warned if you buy one off eBay: unless the seller specifically says it's been recapped, it WILL need recapping! Even if it says "tested", do NOT trust it. These keyboards will work for a while if you test them after they've been in storage for years and then they'll die. Re-capped these go for way more than the Model M though, so be warned.
I have two M2s and had to recap both, I've used brass inserts and screws (plus a countersink drill bit and delicate rotary tool work) to replace the clips on one but now it needs trace repairs on the membrane - great. An easier - but fiddlier - alternative is to trim the clip tab on the barrel plate then use pairs of small locking cable ties, trim the head of the one under the board and keep only the head portion of the one on top, gently lock in place.
@@LouisCYUL I guess I was lucky that all the clips survived on mine. I wanted to keep it as original as possible. I was also lucky to find someone sell an M2 with a cut cord for only €20 since it gave me some spare parts for mine. I recapped the spare board and have a spare membrane as well.
I have a Model M from my dad and the model F sounds similar but the most important thing that both share is that it’s sounds like a machine gun when typing. Also love the heavy weight. I type weird and move my hand more like how you would use an old type writer so it fits my typing style. Also I absolutely hate, hate, HATE that “lubed keyboard thunk” sound.
Finally found someone who shares my view on keyboard sound. I have never liked the “creamy and thocky” sound signature most enthusiasts chase, I much prefer the sound of vintage switches like buckling springs or Alps SKCM, especially in a roomy resonant case that brings out the sound in them.
I used to love Model M keyboards. I worked in IT and when we'd replace PC's that had these and I'd hide them in the storeroom. They were my go-to for years but I left and didn't use them anymore. Still love the sound, personally
My old FC guild mistress on FFXIV uses an old Model M for her gamming. We can hear her tying through her mic and we could tell the "Seriousness" of messages based on the length of the clicks. it was great.
idk like I wouldn't even half surprised. when he was featured on the Mac Address's keyboard video, he seems very very inexperience towards vintage boards or non-MX based keyboards and honestly for me who have been watching the entire keyboard landscape over the last 5 years, these 2 videos - including this video and especially the parts about adding foam or tape to the switches, feels like an half-insult to me and not to mention the 30 frames per second that drained my eyes to its core
hmm. I didn't like that the difference between a model-f and model-m wasn't explained, to be honest. If somebody watches the video that doesn't know the history it feels like a model-m and model-f are the same. I had the feeling that the reviewer also don't know the difference. You can get a new Unicomp model-m for a good price. This is a model-f and build like a tank so more expensive. A video that compares the two would be nice :-) The viewer and I have another taste for keyboards, but that's fine of course.
There was an error in the graphic that attempted to show how the buckling spring closed the contact. It is not the spring itself that closes the circuit when it touches the side (since the side is just the plastic cylinder of the key cap), but rather it is the V-shaped base which tilts and then closes the circuit between two pads on the PCB. So the PCB beneath the keyboard looks very similar to that of a regular membrane keyboard. I do agree that it looks wrong that the keys in the center hardly protrudes above the case. They could have at least made a curvature in the top half of the case to follow the keys, just like the original IBM design. Although I do own an original Model M along with a couple of M2s, I don't really like the feel and sound of using it, so to me it is more like a novelty.
In the case of the Model F, nothing closes contacts. The sensing is through capacitance and technically does not rely on two metal pieces coming together
Just an idea, maybe get someone from the team to who has actual experience with the OG Model M to comment on it? Only for a few seconds/mins in the video, just a little "hey man what you think about this", is what I think was missing from the video.
@@stephenbrothers9185 quality of the unicomp keyboards is pretty low, they have crappy low quality molds and the color schemes are kind of odd. Boards aren't capacitive and it runs off a membrane like a normal crappy rubber dome keyboard. They feel nice but they aren't as good as a modern mechanical keyboard that actually has nkey rollover
@b_wellyn new unicomps are much better. I had an expert from 2010 which was pretty trash, but I bought a mini M from them recently, and the improvements are vast. New tooling I think
@@yeezet4592 yea they got new tooling but 100$ for a unrepairable membrane keyboard is a stretch. I can't use them because the slow response times and I can only press 2 or 3 keys at a time even on the newly designed membranes.
That would make sense considering he doesn't understand that Fs and Ms are different things, and Ms were still reasonably popular in the 1990s if on their way out.
OK you've had someone who doesn't like IBM boards review the model in the new weird boxy case design. Now have someone who loves IBM buckling springs review one of the new 104 models but with the traditional Model M case option.
You should have a link to the product or their shop and why does the description list " LTX 2023 TICKETS AVAILABLE NOW" when that event concluded weeks ago?
Plouffe implies the switch works by connecting the spring with metal on the side of the switch but I’m pretty sure it works with the flapper lifting off of capacitive contacts on the PCB. The spring part is absolutely part of the mechanism, just not part of the circuit.
You don't want to put foam or tape, and that won't do much anyways for the spring sound. What you want for these old style keyboards is a massive body to have a large resonance chamber to give the sound a bit of reverb, that will make it sound better
Plouffe being Plouffe wants to make this keyboard quieter and more "modern" but the feel and sound is the entire point. I don't like metalic ping enjoyable but I'm in love with loud clicky switches because of their sound so Plouffe this keyboard is clearly not for you. Ps. And don't act like linear switches are so much quieter. They are also audible and I for one don't like that kind of sound. Something about clicky switches just make me feel good.
@@ImJustPassingThrough The consensus in keyboard enthusiasts circle is that linear is best tactile feedback isn't needed and click is bad witch is opposite of the old approach.Its like giving a classic car for review for someone who like computerized electric cars no wander they want to make it more modern. I like to have both sonic and tactile feedback every keystroke. Makes typing more deliberate and satisfying to me. I don't have a problem with linear keyboards they are simply not for me.
@@christinastein1196 Even not long ago everyone was buying cherry blues and browns, and reds were considered only good for gaming, not typing. Now everyone is buying linear switches only pretty much. I agree. edit: my custom keyboard has gateron reds and they are easily as loud as my OG model M.
The buckling spring doesn't make contact with the side of the switch, it slams a copper flap down on a contact on the switch base. It's the only keyboard switch that actually switches when you feel the tactile bump - the cherry browns and blues are merely poor imitations of this behaviour.
The part that Plouffe didn't liked is bacause keys expect original Model F indent, I suggest getting "Classic Style F104 Model F Keyboard" which has that indent and keys will be perfectly positioned there... The case design is at fault, and Classic case fixes that.
I have a Japan Computer Corp (great name) Model M clone from the 80’s. I used it as a daily for almost a year until I couldnt take the lack of n-key rollover. Was a very smooth keyboard and did not have any of those annoying pings, just satisfying clack
Model F and Modern F use a capacitive PCB, so they always had an inherent N-key rollover. Model M was IBM's cut price version that used a resistive PCB so lost n-key rollover. So this keyboard is full n-key AND fully reprogrammable. Model F is more pingy as it's a metal body, you get crisper feel and more ping. Plus as old M's gunk up over decades, they become more dull.
The Unicomps are so great. I gave mine to my brother since I can't type on non-splits anymore :( but the buckling spring switch feel is just second to none.
I think the Unicomp is probably the more authentic recreation, and you can get it with the red mouse stick in the middle of the keyboard. What I really want is a buckling spring in an ergo ortholinear. I would buy one.
@@TeflonBilly426 Not to mention they literally made keyboards for IBM into the 2000s as well! Close enough for them, close enough for us, IMO. Whilst they spent several years gathering tooling in the beginning, how Unicomp was close enough to being Lexmark and former IBM staff woke up one morning and happened to go to a different location but do the same stuff using the same stuff. They didn't start from scratch, so there was no recreating moulds, tooling, processes, etc. It was just tweaked, rebranded and life went on. The first truly new keyboards from them were the New Model M and Mini M, which only came out within the last 3 years.
That's not true about buying one with the Trackpoint. I've talked with Customer Service and they aren't able to make them at the moment. Perhaps at the end of the year, maybe, but not at the moment and I've been trying to buy the M13 version since 2019.
unicomp makes model m recreations, this one is a model f. in theory the mechanisms are really similar, but the differences in tooling quality and subtle changes like not using a membrane and bigger rockers make a huge difference. i own both an original model m and a model f and the difference is just staggering. key feel is just a lot better on the model f. although model ms have the better sound going for them
I have a Model F AT and it sounds a lot better because it has a plastic case. I would use it more if it had a more usable layout sadly The IBM Model F actuates via capacitance, unlike the Model M which uses a membrane. Therefore the main advantage the F has over the M is inherent N-key rollover. The Model F also has a lighter spring compared to the Model M as well. The floss mod can help to reduce the spring ping, but the ping itself is inherently part of the switch design. But the spring does not "connect" the switch, it's the flipping of the plastic flipper that actuates the switch. They also make Model F in original designs, such as the F62 "Kishsaver", F77 (not the F107 unfortunately), with a cast zinc base (just like the originals).
You can mod an F AT to have the two extra key slots (alts) to right and left of the spacebar, and replace the spacebar with shorter one from a Model M. It's a bit of work, but makes the layout much better. Also when use a programmable converter on it, you can remap the keys in hardware to whatever layout you prefer.
Why wasn't Mac Address the one reviewing this? Edit: for context didn't the Horst the host want a model M since it sounded like the Sim keyboard? It would be interesting if this scratches that itch.
Nice to see more Model-M/Fs are showing up - now if they only would start showing up in physical stores where I live (long story, issue with the post office). My Model-Ms got lost last time I moved and (17/18) I just can't get used to modern "mechanical keyboards" (but they are a lot nicer than rubberdomes) - I still constantly bottom out, can't really do "burst typing" (where you basically prime the next five or six fingers being used and then just let go (habit from playing piano) since I'm not quite sure when a key has fired (since the cognitive latency when typing like that is about 4-5 keys). And is it just me or does modern mechanical keyboards feel "crowded"? (almost like thye are about 1.5-2mm too close to each other (center-center)) Do try typing with a model-M/F in your lap they are awesome for this, their heft makes 'em stay in place and the comfort of being able to have your arms relaxed are wonderful. Now if only they would start comming with keyboard that has a space between Ctrl/Alt (both sides) - I kinda miss being able to rest my hands by folding them to the side when having a keyboard on desk. (Of for that matter a M5-1 (trackball and buttons between the arrows and the ins/del/home/end/pgUp/pgDn)) With modding, my fav Model-M mod is to replace the stabiliser bar for the spacebar and stretch the spring a smidge - if you mess with it right you can basically drop the actuation force down to silly low levels, which really avoids the "mechanical break" you end up having whenever you need to hit the spacebar on pretty much all keyboards (since you basically can just "brush" the spacebar with the thumb while re-priming your fingers for next burst type) (Btw, do Plouffe have a piano background? If not, can we get a quick opinion from someone in the company that does have it?)
@@mycosysProbably, and while I've seen lots of force curves regarding pressure applied I havn't seen any on "resistance disappearing" (a buckling spring when pushed past its trigger point suddenly drops to near-zero, so just like with a piano when you feel the force goes away you know the key is properly hit (unless very slow on a piano)). Got any starter point (brand, model) for good switches that have that sudden disappearance (collapse) of resistance?
A a 25 year old, I never came across those keyboards at school, we just had the basic mid 2000's microsoft black keyboards. But about 6 years ago I stumbled upon an '85 Model M for sale for like $50, and I jumped on it! At the time I was on a G710 with MX brown switches, but I was a heavy typer, so I wanted something heavier, and OH BOY the buckling springs are heavy ( aswell as the keyboard istelf ) ! My Model M was my daily driver for almost 3 years, Now it sits on a shelf with all kinds of retro-ish tech. It is clearly a conversation starter.
with that aluminum chassis, is sounds different... it doesn't have that "CLACK" sound it used to have with the plastic chassis, the aluminum chassis makes it have that bad "PING" noise.
Love the Braethorn hat! Nice to see y’all supporting a smaller, yet super awesome, creator. Found his channel a couple months ago shopping for a new prebuilt, quickly became one of my favorites!
I used to listen to a ton of LTT Wan shows, but I just can not stand how pompous Linus is as LMG founder. He always has to be right, always has an excues, and his politics are the only acceptable stance. So glad this is coming to light now, no wonder why "today sucks" for him....
@@lucidnonsense942 Is there a big difference in feel? It looks like the mechanism is identical except for the way the paddle either completes the circuit, or changes a capacitance. I can see the capacitive mechanism being more reliable in the long run, but seeing that my Model Ms from the 80s are still working without issue, I question the necessity of it.
@@zorinlynx Yes, fairly noticeable difference in feel. The model Fs have a lighter actuation, and probably the best way to describe it is they feel crisper. I like my model M, but it has not returned to my desk since trying and acquiring an F. It feels much better, but its hard to describe without trying both. Keep in mind the original M was introduced as a cost saving measure. Also, Model Ms are sandwiched together with plastic rivets that tend to break. When only a couple have broken the keyboard will still register but feel mushy. A common mod is to replace these rivets with bolts once this happens
Great job, editor! This was super fun to watch; all the extra detailed graphics and animations were phenomenal (and the updating stats as he guessed was great)
the sound/noise of nostalgia, this reminds me of the very first times I encountered the PC back in the day. Back then, these keys sound like high end equipment. No button sounds like it.
Looking at the mechanism, and the mention of modding... If you can get griphite spray on the contact points where the spring slids into, it theoretically would slide quieter.
The spring doesn't actually slide into any contact - it flips an attached flipper from one position into the next, which is sensed by a capacitive board underneath. There are various mods that reduce the ping, from sliding a short string of fluffy dental floss into the springs to lubing the springs with grease.
@@FrickinBasilisk that's not going to do anything in a Model F. The pinging is from the buckling of the spring, which is how the switch works. The resolution is to floss mod the spring in each switch to dampen the ping.
Just watched Gamer Nexus's take on LMG! wow this has raised major concerns for me!! treating a startup like that is disgusting! looks like LMG are doing it for the money and not the tech, I have just unsubscribed, sorry LMG, thank you Gamer Nexus
Back in the day I definitely preferred those buckling spring keyboards. I think I prefer modern mechanical keyboards over that, but even more than that I definitely prefer modern analog keyboards specifically from wooting.
These arent normal buckling springs, they are more pingy than a model m's switches because they are capacitive buckling spring switches unlike the Model M's membrane buckling spring switches. When the spring buckled on an M it caused a rocker to tilt and make contact with a membrane, The F makes direct contact with the PCB without the use of the membrane, they also have larger components. This is what results in the more metallic sound of the F compared to the more often used buckling springs switches seen in the M. The Model M sounds more muted, its more of click, while the Model F is more of a mixture of click with a high-pitched ping.
I have a Unicomp Ultra Classic. It's the chintziest little thing, being made towards the end of the model's production run (the mould had long worn out by the time mine was struck), but it has the cost-reduced Model M version of this mechanism (b/s over membrane, rather than b/s over capacitive). Also, it was made in 2020.
Would have loved to hear you guys include the key rollover. I have a model M reproduction which I love typing on but as it has the same internals as the original ones it’s basically useless for gaming and I had to remap a lot of shortcuts for my day job.
The above KB is "model F" style capacitive and has NKRO. However I would recommend the new unicomp's new "Mini M" which is 2kro, but the matrix is optimized for tasks like gaming where higher *kro is required on some keys.
3:52 so, you have chose death. It's more likely you likely you've been conditioned to the flatter plastic kind of sound that cherry makes. Model F's and Model ms make a slightly fuller and much more distinct sound.
the thing is that we had switches similar to the ones we have now back then. but they weren't the only type of mechanical switch at the time like modern switches now where they are all cherry clones (most being better than actual cherry switches)
I had an old AT kbd from the 80's for DECADES... until I couldn't get an AT to USB converter without spending a fortune.... I LOVED the solid build, the easy cleaning, and the VERY robust mechanical design.
Sorry, as part of LMG I can't support you. For the talented creators try striking out on your own or finding an ethical company to work for. For the SLIMEus apologists - be better people. Channel ignored.
I worked in an office for nine years. And I worked next to one of the controllers (Terry) for a few of them. You kinda have to use the bubble style keyboards. The ones that are like $10
I hate all these "reviewers/unboxers" who encounter something different then their normal shitty keyboards/electronics then have to have the weird look thumbnail and act indignant during the ENTIRE video.
I remember faintly typing on one of these back in the day, can't remember where though. Possibly at school. Also, I suspect that the pinging sound comes from the combination of new springs and that aluminum case.
Hello, project coordinator here. Thanks Nicholas and the entire ShortCircuit team for putting together a nice video covering the Brand New Model F Keyboard! It is great to get the word out about these great keyboards that definitely take some getting used to!
Kindly see my replies to some of the notes brought up in the video:
The pinginess / reverberation: Some folks that prefer a Model F board without the higher pitch sounds. The best thing about buckling spring keyboards is the a longstanding community that has come up with various repair and maintenance step by step guides and mods, including the Floss Mod and the grease mod, to reduce or eliminate the high-pitch / pinginess while typing. My guess is that the main reason for the pinginess is the super thick steel plates reverberating inside the keyboard.
Why True Red? Well it's the Pantone designation for the particular shade of red. The factory prefers Pantone references when doing the finishing.
Recessed keys: The reason for the extra recessed keys for a couple of the rows is that the Ultra Compact F104 case top in the video is flat and the Model F and Model M design require a curved plate inside the keyboard. One result of this is that the key profiles are all uniform and a key can be installed on the various rows. The Model M style F104, FSSK, and F122 cases are all curved where the keys are, just like the IBM originals, so the keys will stick out more evenly.
Casting: The Ultra Compact cases for the F104 and FSSK were CNC milled and have 3 main parts, while the ultra compact cases for the F62 and F77 keyboards are die cast, while the first rounds of the compact F62/F77 boards were CNC milled. The Model M style case Model F keyboards all have die cast cases.
Regarding the low serials, they are mainly there to allow folks to offer a little extra support to help cover the tens of thousands of dollars in project cost overruns, the near-endless express air mail sample charges over the years, etc. Many folks also like a custom serial because it allows them to pick a date for the production date, like their birthday or an anniversary of some date. In the Model M community forums it is always notable to get a board made the same year you were born, or if you were lucky, on your actual birthday (and actual birth year too!).
Why would you call this keyboard the model F when it is clearly based on the model M?
@@McLovinMods The keyboard is a Model F keyboard, which uses the same capacitive buckling spring technology as the original IBM Model F keyboard. The similarity with the Model M is that the layout is same as the Model M keyboards that came out after the Model F. The Model M was actually IBM's effort to cut two-thirds of the cost out of their Model F which originally went for $600 in the early 80s, adjusted for inflation. The Model F produces a much crisper sound with each key press as it has a much larger flipper that snaps against a huge PCB underneath all of the keys.
Any possibility of a TKL version?
@@screwb1882 How about you use a search engine and find out for yourself.
@@screwb1882Yes that is offered on the project web site - I recommend heading over there to see details and photos. The TKL model is called the FSSK, named after the IBM 84 key SSK.
When I was growing up these were just keyboards. Funny how they've become so revered.
I much prefer my modern mech
There was a cracking article in the early 90s that was headlined “Where have all the good keyboards gone?” or “what happened to all the good keyboards?”, something like that. I think that pretty much sums up what happened
ok bro@@MrML4L
Thats been my mentality. Late 90s i Learned to type on old worn Model Ms or similar keyboards. They were just keyboards to me. So their reverence still surprises me.
The thing about buckling spring keyboards that made them so popular with gamers etc is they are infinitely repairable. The only thing that is ever going to fail on them is that spring and it can be replaced with ease on many kbs that used them the spring sat n a metal peg that was the contact and then completed the circuit by touching a contact on the side to replace one pull the key cap use tweezers to put out the spring replace with new one put cap back on done
Going over this video, I think there's a few mistakes, so here are my thoughts and clarifications for viewers.
1:58 - "Apple IIs" - On screen, an Apple Extended Keyboard II was shown. The Apple Keyboard II was something else and intended for Apple Macintoshes, not even Apple II *computers* that had separate keyboards like the Apple IIGS.
2:30 - Shown reviews on Model Ms - Model Fs and Ms both use buckling springs, but there are some fundamental differences (from how presses are registered down to the number of spring coils). IMO, this distinction should have at least been briefly clarified. So, those reviews are of a keyboard with a switch that is known to feel slightly differently *and* is known to sound lower pitched. Whilst I love both Model Fs and Ms and they're in many ways similar, IMO, the reviews shown are not 100% reflective of this keyboard or its OG counterparts.
2:41 - Like above, comparing "old Model Ms" to brand new Model Fs is a bit problematic, especially trying to relate it to "age". The difference you may have felt wasn't age at all; Model Fs and Ms were always a bit different back in the '80s and today.
3:27 - "spring buckles and connects on the side of the switch". If by "connects" they mean connection to actuate, that's not how that works. When the spring buckles, it forces a plate on the bottom of the switch (called a flipper/rocker) to press down on a capacitance-sensing PCB (Model F) or membrane (Model M).
3:49 - "maybe add some foam... couple layers of tape". To get rid of the ping, the "floss mod" is a well-documented (and reversible) thing to do. It involves putting strings of dental floss inside the springs to stop them from resonating. A basic search should've found that for them before recommending (IMO) more awkward options.
7:57 - "calling it true red which is a little weird". It's named after the PANTONE name, but it seems the company themselves has already said that.
9:36 - "sculpted, almost SA if not actually SA". These keycaps are neither. When opened, you can see that the inner assembly itself is curved, allowing for the uniform not sculpted keycaps to be interchanged on any row. The keycaps' tops are cylindrical shaped, not spherical like SA would be.
11:38 - "rose tinted glasses". IMO, this may be sort of unfair. I was born after Model F production was believed to be finished, and I have no issue with them. In fact, there are a lot of younger people on various Discords and subreddits dedicated to IBM keyboards. Contrary to the end sentiment, AFAIK, the New Model F project didn't start to try introducing Fs to people, it became a thing because Model Fs already had fans in the modern day but the OG IBM 4704 F62 and F77 keyboards were difficult to find and costly. This F104 is just a new take to capitalise on the F62/F77's success.
As someone who runs a website/wiki on IBM keyboards, /r/modelm and its Discord, I always get 'nervous sweats' with big videos on IBM/vintage keyboards since these misconceptions can be repeated, spread and then we have to deal with stuff "but, this big outlet said otherwise". It's happened. I absolutely respect Plouffe's opinion on not liking the sound or vintage keyboards (despite us getting dismissed as having "rose tinted glasses"), I just think a little more research would have helped the factual basis of the video. I get ShortCircuit is not meant to be ultra scripted and I don't think the set had a teleprompter to help when I saw it in tour videos, but I don't think that's reason not to have a quick look online about what's being discussed. My two cents.
Hello friend, unfortunately Model F is not TRUELY mechanical keyboard, as it uses a membrane underneath the flippers. Hope that helps
@@thetamsin It's crazy to think a rubber dome keyboard has become so legendary. Especially to the point that people confuse it as mechanical.
@@thetamsin Model M uses a membrane. Model F uses a PCB. Regardless, both are considered very much "mechanical" in the general sense of the enthusiast terminology compared to typical rubber dome keyboards.
@@thetamsin what the government wo't tell you is that just inside that shell of the model f is a dell keyboard with rubber domes that the buckle springs actuate
@@hudsongreen2654 actually, in 1983, the chairman of the International Standards Organization, Dr. James Garfield, released a list of rules for "mechanical" switches. The IBM Model F broke 34 of them. For more information google "garfield rule 34"
Buckling springs aren't really about the sound. It's all about the feel. If you want something vintage that sounds and feels good the Alps switches are where it's at. The big problem with the alps switches being the design made them super prone to getting gunked up internally and when that happened they functioned much more poorly. So a lot of folks that used them never experienced what they actually felt like when properly cared for.
Lucky there wasn't any tape on the keys.
3:29 Is not entirely true. Buckling springs don't actuate by making electrical contact with the side of the housing, that's a common misconception. The springs are connected to a lever at the bottom of the switch that does that actuation. In the Model M the lever pushes on a membrane, similar to how a modern rubber dome works. On the Model F the lever is connected to a capacitive mechanism.
also they weren't the only mech switch at the time. alps existed and were much like our modern switches.
to reduce the ping you can put floss inside the springs, it may feel slightly more mushy but will make the sound a lot more bearable
well also this one is meta bodied the originals were plastic which would dull the sound a bit
At that point, it's not even worth it.
@@nanaki-seto true, foaming it up i guess could make up for it
I'd rather just buy a different keyboard at that point
I 100% rock the floss mod on all my Model Ms
Did you make sure to take the plastic film off this time?
This comment was typed on a Unicomp new model M. By far the best keyboard I have ever used. Don't see myself ever using anything else from now on.
I hope you'll get to try a Model F some day. Model M's are good but F's are just... better.
Not to mention that Unicomps are like the latests Model Ms released, cheaper, lighter and clumsier than the old units from the 80s. Both having the same buckling springs, the difference in typing is there.
You should try typing on a Model M that's in good shape. While Unicomp's keyboards are far better than the crappy $35 keyboard with the rubber dome switches, their build quality is very poor (I'm typing on one of the two I own right now). Also, n-key rollover is almost nonexistent and I see keypresses being dropped frequently when I'm typing fast. I can't wait to get my new Model F.
@@ratsputin69 Have you tried some of the newer Unicomp keyboards, they are supposed to have been getting better the last few years. Not as good as a Model F of course but still really good.
@@ratsputin69Unicomp have supposedly replaced all their ancient molding equipment so the new model m’s are meant to be good quality
Linus: "My company is valued at $100 million."
Also Linus: "I can't afford to spend $500 to retest."
6:30 That's silly. Buckling springs are one of the most tactile switches that exist - far more tactile than any cherry switch. This is objectively demonstrated on the force curves. Would also have been nice if you went over how it's capacitive sensing, NKRO (unlike a Model M), programmability options, etc.
lol buckling springs are the definition of tactile. The buckling of the spring (the "tactile event") directly corresponds to the actuation of the switch. This channel is so dumb.
I get where he's coming from. Conventional tactile switches have a bit of resistance before the actuation point, then a drop. Buckling springs only have the drop. Before and after the actuation point, they do feel almost like linear switches.
It's a little interesting to hear an outsider's thoughts, but I agree that this review is pretty uninformed. Someone like Chyrosran22 who actually fundamentally understands these technologies would serve us all a lot better; too much info is better than too little.
After the Model M, IBM briefly had a Model M2 on the market for a few years which is quite rare these days. My first PC (IBM PS-1 386) used the M2 and is basically a smaller version of the Model M but also with buckling springs. Sadly enough these were known to die because of the caps on the control board and taking them apart was HARD. There were no screws - it was all done by plastic tabs. On 30+ year old plastic this is not great. Of course you also need to remove all the key caps first.
Me, being a masochist, did exactly that. I removed all the caps, managed to open up the keyboard without breaking off any of the plastic tabs, collected all 102 springs inside, removed the board, recapped it and then started the painstaking process of re-inserting all 102 springs and closing it back up. I had to repeat this THREE TIMES because each time a spring was slightly misaligned making a key not work.
In the end I now have a working IBM Model M2 keyboard which is small in size but gives an authentic IBM experience.
Be warned if you buy one off eBay: unless the seller specifically says it's been recapped, it WILL need recapping! Even if it says "tested", do NOT trust it. These keyboards will work for a while if you test them after they've been in storage for years and then they'll die. Re-capped these go for way more than the Model M though, so be warned.
I have two M2s and had to recap both, I've used brass inserts and screws (plus a countersink drill bit and delicate rotary tool work) to replace the clips on one but now it needs trace repairs on the membrane - great. An easier - but fiddlier - alternative is to trim the clip tab on the barrel plate then use pairs of small locking cable ties, trim the head of the one under the board and keep only the head portion of the one on top, gently lock in place.
@@LouisCYUL I guess I was lucky that all the clips survived on mine. I wanted to keep it as original as possible. I was also lucky to find someone sell an M2 with a cut cord for only €20 since it gave me some spare parts for mine. I recapped the spare board and have a spare membrane as well.
The space between the upper Key rows are for descriptor overlays for the specific programs you used .
Hi Glenn, I hope you realize that the switch is not triggered by the spring hitting the side, but rather flippers hitting the bottom.
1:02 love it when the editor puts these nice little touches in there
when he said "its over 6" they put 6
did you take all the stickers off this time?
I have a Model M from my dad and the model F sounds similar but the most important thing that both share is that it’s sounds like a machine gun when typing. Also love the heavy weight. I type weird and move my hand more like how you would use an old type writer so it fits my typing style.
Also I absolutely hate, hate, HATE that “lubed keyboard thunk” sound.
Finally found someone who shares my view on keyboard sound. I have never liked the “creamy and thocky” sound signature most enthusiasts chase, I much prefer the sound of vintage switches like buckling springs or Alps SKCM, especially in a roomy resonant case that brings out the sound in them.
did you guys remember to take off all the plastic this time for your review
I used to love Model M keyboards. I worked in IT and when we'd replace PC's that had these and I'd hide them in the storeroom. They were my go-to for years but I left and didn't use them anymore. Still love the sound, personally
Thaats such a good story!
At least he didn't forget to take it out of the box.
BUCKLING SPRINGS are the perfect keyboard experience. Anything else is subpar.
FULL DISCLOURE THIS WAS A JOKE DO NOT BAN ME
My old FC guild mistress on FFXIV uses an old Model M for her gamming. We can hear her tying through her mic and we could tell the "Seriousness" of messages based on the length of the clicks. it was great.
Some much incorrect info in this video. I’m sorry guys but come on. I’m still not even sure if plouffe knows a model M and F are two different things.
There's no way a keyboard nerd wouldn't know the difference between an M and F
3/4 of the commenters on the video think this is an M and don't know the difference, either, so they're just catering to their audience.
idk like I wouldn't even half surprised. when he was featured on the Mac Address's keyboard video, he seems very very inexperience towards vintage boards or non-MX based keyboards and honestly for me who have been watching the entire keyboard landscape over the last 5 years, these 2 videos - including this video and especially the parts about adding foam or tape to the switches, feels like an half-insult to me and not to mention the 30 frames per second that drained my eyes to its core
hmm. I didn't like that the difference between a model-f and model-m wasn't explained, to be honest.
If somebody watches the video that doesn't know the history it feels like a model-m and model-f are the same.
I had the feeling that the reviewer also don't know the difference.
You can get a new Unicomp model-m for a good price. This is a model-f and build like a tank so more expensive. A video that compares the two would be nice :-)
The viewer and I have another taste for keyboards, but that's fine of course.
Nicotine beige is the only color this should ever exist in
even IBM themselves made model Fs in multiple colors, like blue or black, so it's not true
There was an error in the graphic that attempted to show how the buckling spring closed the contact. It is not the spring itself that closes the circuit when it touches the side (since the side is just the plastic cylinder of the key cap), but rather it is the V-shaped base which tilts and then closes the circuit between two pads on the PCB. So the PCB beneath the keyboard looks very similar to that of a regular membrane keyboard.
I do agree that it looks wrong that the keys in the center hardly protrudes above the case. They could have at least made a curvature in the top half of the case to follow the keys, just like the original IBM design.
Although I do own an original Model M along with a couple of M2s, I don't really like the feel and sound of using it, so to me it is more like a novelty.
In the case of the Model F, nothing closes contacts. The sensing is through capacitance and technically does not rely on two metal pieces coming together
Even in the case of capacitive buckling spring, it still requires a circuit to be closed, although it will just be for AC.
Kudos to the editor of this one. Great job!
Thanks you’re welcome
They were having way too much fun with that weighing scene.
‽
Just an idea, maybe get someone from the team to who has actual experience with the OG Model M to comment on it? Only for a few seconds/mins in the video, just a little "hey man what you think about this", is what I think was missing from the video.
This, but with a Model F (since this is a Model F, not a Model M).
Plouffe just casually ignoring that Unicomp have been making effectively the original Model M continuously for decades 🤷♂️
They're also made in the USA vs these made in China
@@stephenbrothers9185 quality of the unicomp keyboards is pretty low, they have crappy low quality molds and the color schemes are kind of odd. Boards aren't capacitive and it runs off a membrane like a normal crappy rubber dome keyboard. They feel nice but they aren't as good as a modern mechanical keyboard that actually has nkey rollover
@b_wellyn new unicomps are much better. I had an expert from 2010 which was pretty trash, but I bought a mini M from them recently, and the improvements are vast. New tooling I think
You just casually ignoring that this isn't a Model M.
@@yeezet4592 yea they got new tooling but 100$ for a unrepairable membrane keyboard is a stretch. I can't use them because the slow response times and I can only press 2 or 3 keys at a time even on the newly designed membranes.
"Feels like you're typing on a keyboard from 20 maybe 30 years ago" my friend that was the early 2000s or late 90s
That would make sense considering he doesn't understand that Fs and Ms are different things, and Ms were still reasonably popular in the 1990s if on their way out.
Old enough for Apple II but not old enough for IBM M? May want to look at that timeline :D.
OK you've had someone who doesn't like IBM boards review the model in the new weird boxy case design. Now have someone who loves IBM buckling springs review one of the new 104 models but with the traditional Model M case option.
You should have a link to the product or their shop and why does the description list " LTX 2023 TICKETS AVAILABLE NOW" when that event concluded weeks ago?
Plouffe implies the switch works by connecting the spring with metal on the side of the switch but I’m pretty sure it works with the flapper lifting off of capacitive contacts on the PCB. The spring part is absolutely part of the mechanism, just not part of the circuit.
You don't want to put foam or tape, and that won't do much anyways for the spring sound. What you want for these old style keyboards is a massive body to have a large resonance chamber to give the sound a bit of reverb, that will make it sound better
Nah, the best (and the simplest) solution is just to fill the case with chocolate pudding
Plouffe being Plouffe wants to make this keyboard quieter and more "modern" but the feel and sound is the entire point. I don't like metalic ping enjoyable but I'm in love with loud clicky switches because of their sound so Plouffe this keyboard is clearly not for you.
Ps. And don't act like linear switches are so much quieter. They are also audible and I for one don't like that kind of sound. Something about clicky switches just make me feel good.
There was a a lot of "I don't see the point, it's not like the current popular style".
@@ImJustPassingThrough The consensus in keyboard enthusiasts circle is that linear is best tactile feedback isn't needed and click is bad witch is opposite of the old approach.Its like giving a classic car for review for someone who like computerized electric cars no wander they want to make it more modern. I like to have both sonic and tactile feedback every keystroke. Makes typing more deliberate and satisfying to me. I don't have a problem with linear keyboards they are simply not for me.
@@christinastein1196 Even not long ago everyone was buying cherry blues and browns, and reds were considered only good for gaming, not typing. Now everyone is buying linear switches only pretty much. I agree.
edit: my custom keyboard has gateron reds and they are easily as loud as my OG model M.
Way to go full artesian Linus
The buckling spring doesn't make contact with the side of the switch, it slams a copper flap down on a contact on the switch base. It's the only keyboard switch that actually switches when you feel the tactile bump - the cherry browns and blues are merely poor imitations of this behaviour.
The part that Plouffe didn't liked is bacause keys expect original Model F indent, I suggest getting "Classic Style F104 Model F Keyboard" which has that indent and keys will be perfectly positioned there... The case design is at fault, and Classic case fixes that.
I have a Japan Computer Corp (great name) Model M clone from the 80’s. I used it as a daily for almost a year until I couldnt take the lack of n-key rollover. Was a very smooth keyboard and did not have any of those annoying pings, just satisfying clack
Model F and Modern F use a capacitive PCB, so they always had an inherent N-key rollover. Model M was IBM's cut price version that used a resistive PCB so lost n-key rollover.
So this keyboard is full n-key AND fully reprogrammable.
Model F is more pingy as it's a metal body, you get crisper feel and more ping. Plus as old M's gunk up over decades, they become more dull.
It's quite easy (but kind of time consuming) to modify the Model F to get rid of the pinging if you prefer it that way.
The Unicomps are so great. I gave mine to my brother since I can't type on non-splits anymore :( but the buckling spring switch feel is just second to none.
They are also making a model F split now :)
@@forzatoro89 :O !!! I'll have to check it out!!!!!!! That's great news
I used to work at IiBM in the 90s and everyone had a Model M on their desk.
I think the Unicomp is probably the more authentic recreation, and you can get it with the red mouse stick in the middle of the keyboard. What I really want is a buckling spring in an ergo ortholinear. I would buy one.
Well, Unicomp bought the licence to produce Model M keyboards. So not a recreation !
@@Cfedaya not just the license, they own the original tooling.
@@TeflonBilly426 Not to mention they literally made keyboards for IBM into the 2000s as well! Close enough for them, close enough for us, IMO. Whilst they spent several years gathering tooling in the beginning, how Unicomp was close enough to being Lexmark and former IBM staff woke up one morning and happened to go to a different location but do the same stuff using the same stuff. They didn't start from scratch, so there was no recreating moulds, tooling, processes, etc. It was just tweaked, rebranded and life went on. The first truly new keyboards from them were the New Model M and Mini M, which only came out within the last 3 years.
That's not true about buying one with the Trackpoint. I've talked with Customer Service and they aren't able to make them at the moment. Perhaps at the end of the year, maybe, but not at the moment and I've been trying to buy the M13 version since 2019.
unicomp makes model m recreations, this one is a model f. in theory the mechanisms are really similar, but the differences in tooling quality and subtle changes like not using a membrane and bigger rockers make a huge difference. i own both an original model m and a model f and the difference is just staggering. key feel is just a lot better on the model f. although model ms have the better sound going for them
I have a Model F AT and it sounds a lot better because it has a plastic case. I would use it more if it had a more usable layout sadly
The IBM Model F actuates via capacitance, unlike the Model M which uses a membrane. Therefore the main advantage the F has over the M is inherent N-key rollover. The Model F also has a lighter spring compared to the Model M as well.
The floss mod can help to reduce the spring ping, but the ping itself is inherently part of the switch design. But the spring does not "connect" the switch, it's the flipping of the plastic flipper that actuates the switch.
They also make Model F in original designs, such as the F62 "Kishsaver", F77 (not the F107 unfortunately), with a cast zinc base (just like the originals).
You can mod an F AT to have the two extra key slots (alts) to right and left of the spacebar, and replace the spacebar with shorter one from a Model M. It's a bit of work, but makes the layout much better. Also when use a programmable converter on it, you can remap the keys in hardware to whatever layout you prefer.
Sebastian Linus: „Don‘t judge a company for errors, look how they react to critique.“
Well, well, well how the turntables….
The rebound ping of a model M is the KEY FEATURE. That pinging is how you tell people are productive.
Loving that classic Olivetti-style color scheme of the keys. Brings back memories 🥲
The typing sounds like the keyboard Jonathan was looking for in that Sims keyboard video co-op you did a while back.
Ping me when you want to auction that off as well.
Ping me when you find a reason to live
Why wasn't Mac Address the one reviewing this? Edit: for context didn't the Horst the host want a model M since it sounded like the Sim keyboard? It would be interesting if this scratches that itch.
Nice to see more Model-M/Fs are showing up - now if they only would start showing up in physical stores where I live (long story, issue with the post office).
My Model-Ms got lost last time I moved and (17/18) I just can't get used to modern "mechanical keyboards" (but they are a lot nicer than rubberdomes) - I still constantly bottom out, can't really do "burst typing" (where you basically prime the next five or six fingers being used and then just let go (habit from playing piano) since I'm not quite sure when a key has fired (since the cognitive latency when typing like that is about 4-5 keys).
And is it just me or does modern mechanical keyboards feel "crowded"? (almost like thye are about 1.5-2mm too close to each other (center-center))
Do try typing with a model-M/F in your lap they are awesome for this, their heft makes 'em stay in place and the comfort of being able to have your arms relaxed are wonderful.
Now if only they would start comming with keyboard that has a space between Ctrl/Alt (both sides) - I kinda miss being able to rest my hands by folding them to the side when having a keyboard on desk. (Of for that matter a M5-1 (trackball and buttons between the arrows and the ins/del/home/end/pgUp/pgDn))
With modding, my fav Model-M mod is to replace the stabiliser bar for the spacebar and stretch the spring a smidge - if you mess with it right you can basically drop the actuation force down to silly low levels, which really avoids the "mechanical break" you end up having whenever you need to hit the spacebar on pretty much all keyboards (since you basically can just "brush" the spacebar with the thumb while re-priming your fingers for next burst type)
(Btw, do Plouffe have a piano background? If not, can we get a quick opinion from someone in the company that does have it?)
@@mycosysProbably, and while I've seen lots of force curves regarding pressure applied I havn't seen any on "resistance disappearing" (a buckling spring when pushed past its trigger point suddenly drops to near-zero, so just like with a piano when you feel the force goes away you know the key is properly hit (unless very slow on a piano)).
Got any starter point (brand, model) for good switches that have that sudden disappearance (collapse) of resistance?
@@mycosysFair point, but it collapses enough for the muscles to notice it clearly.
Thanks, hadn't heard of those switches, will look them up.
A a 25 year old, I never came across those keyboards at school, we just had the basic mid 2000's microsoft black keyboards. But about 6 years ago I stumbled upon an '85 Model M for sale for like $50, and I jumped on it! At the time I was on a G710 with MX brown switches, but I was a heavy typer, so I wanted something heavier, and OH BOY the buckling springs are heavy ( aswell as the keyboard istelf ) ! My Model M was my daily driver for almost 3 years, Now it sits on a shelf with all kinds of retro-ish tech. It is clearly a conversation starter.
I'm surprised they didn't bring Linus in to get his opinion on how it compares.
with that aluminum chassis, is sounds different... it doesn't have that "CLACK" sound it used to have with the plastic chassis, the aluminum chassis makes it have that bad "PING" noise.
Love the Braethorn hat! Nice to see y’all supporting a smaller, yet super awesome, creator. Found his channel a couple months ago shopping for a new prebuilt, quickly became one of my favorites!
I used to listen to a ton of LTT Wan shows, but I just can not stand how pompous Linus is as LMG founder. He always has to be right, always has an excues, and his politics are the only acceptable stance. So glad this is coming to light now, no wonder why "today sucks" for him....
Ironically I'm after the metal ping noise
Model M's and Model F's are very different. You can't really talk about them interchangeably.
Yeah, this is very much an M.
@@funspoylerNO - these are F guts in M styled case. M is resistive membrane, F capacitive
@@lucidnonsense942 Is there a big difference in feel? It looks like the mechanism is identical except for the way the paddle either completes the circuit, or changes a capacitance. I can see the capacitive mechanism being more reliable in the long run, but seeing that my Model Ms from the 80s are still working without issue, I question the necessity of it.
@@zorinlynx Yes, fairly noticeable difference in feel. The model Fs have a lighter actuation, and probably the best way to describe it is they feel crisper. I like my model M, but it has not returned to my desk since trying and acquiring an F. It feels much better, but its hard to describe without trying both. Keep in mind the original M was introduced as a cost saving measure. Also, Model Ms are sandwiched together with plastic rivets that tend to break. When only a couple have broken the keyboard will still register but feel mushy. A common mod is to replace these rivets with bolts once this happens
Ms* & Fs* …apostrophes are for contractions & possession
1:08 @ editor, very fun edits. < 6 is less than 6 though. At least in the systems I'm familiar with.
Great job, editor! This was super fun to watch; all the extra detailed graphics and animations were phenomenal (and the updating stats as he guessed was great)
That high pitch ping just ignited some serotonin via nostalgia
You unlocked a forgotten memory from the keyboard that came with the 486 we got in the 90s. I used that keyboard into the 2000s.
the sound/noise of nostalgia, this reminds me of the very first times I encountered the PC back in the day. Back then, these keys sound like high end equipment. No button sounds like it.
Looking at the mechanism, and the mention of modding...
If you can get griphite spray on the contact points where the spring slids into, it theoretically would slide quieter.
The spring doesn't actually slide into any contact - it flips an attached flipper from one position into the next, which is sensed by a capacitive board underneath.
There are various mods that reduce the ping, from sliding a short string of fluffy dental floss into the springs to lubing the springs with grease.
I have fond memories of being 5 years old, playing the original Kings Quest in Windows 3.1 on my grandpa's IBM PC with a Model M keyboard.
All hail buckling spring. Doesn't need foam or tape
WAH
Get your ears checked. Did you hear the sounds? Its awful and needs PE foam or something
so true
@@FrickinBasilisk that's not going to do anything in a Model F. The pinging is from the buckling of the spring, which is how the switch works. The resolution is to floss mod the spring in each switch to dampen the ping.
Just watched Gamer Nexus's take on LMG! wow this has raised major concerns for me!! treating a startup like that is disgusting! looks like LMG are doing it for the money and not the tech, I have just unsubscribed, sorry LMG, thank you Gamer Nexus
@@randomhero123 No need to fan the flames, man. GN was already in the right, that's all they need
Thicc is IN baby - I remember the real OG, I learned typing on that at Uni, after we passed the typewriter test.
Keyboard enthusiasts are just ss anniying as wine testers
The editor working overtime on this one, love the text blok shenanigans
Back in the day I definitely preferred those buckling spring keyboards. I think I prefer modern mechanical keyboards over that, but even more than that I definitely prefer modern analog keyboards specifically from wooting.
Editor is on fire with this one! Great job! Really make it more fun to watch..
For some reason I am OVERLY bother by the fact that at 1:38 the colour options are brought on screen and yet "RED" doesn't get labelled at all.
I actually have an old IBM wheelwriter that uses the same keyboard as the Model F I believe. It feels divine.
I learned to type on these, only we had keycaps which were blank to help you learn....
These arent normal buckling springs, they are more pingy than a model m's switches because they are capacitive buckling spring switches unlike the Model M's membrane buckling spring switches. When the spring buckled on an M it caused a rocker to tilt and make contact with a membrane, The F makes direct contact with the PCB without the use of the membrane, they also have larger components. This is what results in the more metallic sound of the F compared to the more often used buckling springs switches seen in the M. The Model M sounds more muted, its more of click, while the Model F is more of a mixture of click with a high-pitched ping.
I have a Unicomp Ultra Classic. It's the chintziest little thing, being made towards the end of the model's production run (the mould had long worn out by the time mine was struck), but it has the cost-reduced Model M version of this mechanism (b/s over membrane, rather than b/s over capacitive). Also, it was made in 2020.
Would have loved to hear you guys include the key rollover. I have a model M reproduction which I love typing on but as it has the same internals as the original ones it’s basically useless for gaming and I had to remap a lot of shortcuts for my day job.
after the lmg allegations guess were not getting it for a while sadly 💀
The above KB is "model F" style capacitive and has NKRO. However I would recommend the new unicomp's new "Mini M" which is 2kro, but the matrix is optimized for tasks like gaming where higher *kro is required on some keys.
3:52 so, you have chose death. It's more likely you likely you've been conditioned to the flatter plastic kind of sound that cherry makes. Model F's and Model ms make a slightly fuller and much more distinct sound.
the thing is that we had switches similar to the ones we have now back then. but they weren't the only type of mechanical switch at the time like modern switches now where they are all cherry clones (most being better than actual cherry switches)
The sound is like 50% of what I like on model M and Fs :D
This keyboard is great. It can help auction off other people's property faster.
I had an old AT kbd from the 80's for DECADES... until I couldn't get an AT to USB converter without spending a fortune.... I LOVED the solid build, the easy cleaning, and the VERY robust mechanical design.
I think you can get fairly affordable converters nowadays, I think they are under 50USD.
we were typing on gold back then and didn't even realize it.
Sorry, as part of LMG I can't support you.
For the talented creators try striking out on your own or finding an ethical company to work for.
For the SLIMEus apologists - be better people.
Channel ignored.
I worked in an office for nine years. And I worked next to one of the controllers (Terry) for a few of them. You kinda have to use the bubble style keyboards. The ones that are like $10
I hate all these "reviewers/unboxers" who encounter something different then their normal shitty keyboards/electronics then have to have the weird look thumbnail and act indignant during the ENTIRE video.
DUDE YOU WORE THE HAT 💜
Good lord the gaps in that case... woof. Did they cut it manually with a sawzall?
No it's just that Ellipse (modelfkeyboards) designed it himself lol.
I guess Horst has finally found his Sims' keyboard! If this is available for Mac, that is.
Can I just say how much I enjoyed the edditing on this video.
That thing is a deadly weapon.
Y’all need to do more videos on electrocapacitive rubber dome switches like Topre & its clones
No hate towards Plouffe but please get someone enthusiastic about old electronics to do videos like these.
that keyboard sounds electric
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I remember faintly typing on one of these back in the day, can't remember where though. Possibly at school.
Also, I suspect that the pinging sound comes from the combination of new springs and that aluminum case.
True Red is a call back to True Blue, IBM's nickname back in the day.
True Red is just the Pantone name for that colour.
IBM's nickname was "Big Blue".
I've tried all kinds of modern mechanical keyboards, and none were anywhere near as satisfying.
I have an original 80s IBM and still use it today.. the people in the office hate it :)