Considering what you found in Keel #1, and we all know what a perfectionist you are... I'm betting Keel #2 is going to be on your list of things to do!
At the very least I would be drilling a hole or two and inserting a bore scope camera to know exactly what is there. If they choose not to do the repair at this time. It would just require patching a couple drill bit sized holes. Plus giving them the real facts of what is there, instead of imagining one way or the other. (Personally I would want it addressed before I went cruising long term. But to each their own.) There are plenty of catamarans that just do weekend and holiday coastal excursions. So that may factor in to the decision, right or wrong.
I don't think one would have to be a perfectionist to want to fix the other keel. The contents of keel #1 were almost actionable (at least in the US where there is the rule of lawyers ;-) It wouldn't be a total surprise (at least to me) if the other keel revealed that the bottom half was filled with discarded shopping bags.
Fountaine Pajot is officially on notice that what they are putting out is garbage. You exposed them for what they are. To make it right they should be paying for this fix. Hope this video goes viral.
Рік тому+1
If they pay for this, they will have to make a recall and pay for that as well. It's going to be very interesting to see how this plays out, Mads and Ava how quite a bit of reach, so I doubt FP can just ignore it.
As a sailor since the early 70s and having worked as a laborer at a sailboat dealership while in college, I coined the phrase, "Sailboat manufacturers build 'em to sell, not to sail." The poor construction of that keel confirms what I've said for years. It's never surprising to find poor quality in boat construction. As for you finding another boat project, it just confirms you're a glutten for punishment. But, alas, you're really talented when it comes to DIY and hosting videos. Keep up the good work.
There's an '87 Tayana 52 in San Diego for $152,000. Very pretty example with a fabulous aft cabin. You could do some personalization projects to it and head off into the pacific, without having to pay Panama a stupid amount of money. Also, there are probably a lot of FP owners right now, with beads of sweat running down their faces! 🤣
16:20 my man hasn't finished his current build and already dreaming about the next one. kekw WOuld love to see more boat refits from you. An Amel Super Maramu would be a killer project for you.
For raining that keel back in place, I was thinking of using a floor jack, like they use for cars. They can handle a lot of weight and lift fairly quickly. The range of motion that they provide should allow you to lift the keel up in one go after the adhesive is applied, so you wont be stuck block and adjusting several times.
What a crap build for the keel. You would be concerned about the build quality of the rest of the boat. Great video, and I’m happy to hear you talk about another refit project👏👏👏👏
Your investigation process and attention to detail are truly impressive - a pleasure to watch! I just hope that the manufacturer of this yacht has seen this for the sake of their future business as well as their existing owners.
Like you, I am astounded at the mess inside that keel. My feeling now is that you should drop the other one and do both of them together because you just know that sooner or later that one is going to go the same way!
Madds, after 5 glorious years of rebuilding a sailboat we thought you would be resigned to sail that boat for 5 years BEFORE looking for another project boat. You know… enjoy the fruits of your labor… and show us what your boat can do. I’m not sure you can sell your boat because it is sooo high tech, most wouldn’t be able to follow all the electronic gadgets to make it work… so unless you can get Brian from Sailing Delos to buy your boat… who will buy your boat. LOL
OMG. Those plugs. Who does that? I didnt think I'd enjoy this video as much but this is exactly what gets me about how boats are built especially newer ones. Great reveal Mads!
Fontaine Pajot apparently does that. :) It does seem pretty rinkydink on a what was probably a million dollar boat (post fitting out and with shakedown expenses rolled in) at one point.
idea for getting the keel back in place. Build a cradle for the keel so its upright and held firmly and then use your bottle jacks to raise the cradle. Not only will it be easier to raise but there should be enough pressure to ensure a bit of squeeze out of the adhesive and a strong bond.
Time to write a book or produce an organised series of instructional videos. I’m never going to be able to afford a small sailing boat let alone a 800k catamaran but I have been fascinated watching all your DIY videos. To be honest, we just love you in your element, which was the original formula that worked so well. It’s clear you like DIY more than sailing full time.
We have a leopard 46 and had water weeping from the keels. In conversation with the yard and online from Catamaran experts, it's a very common aspect of our boat design, but with some key differences to your situation. In the Leopard there is actually a fiberglassed hollow not filled with foam, where water collects. The keels are also attached with transverse keel bolts to a flange coming out of the hull. The general consensus for us was that if there isn't significant keel boat corrosion the best course of action is to drain and then re-bed the bolts. It appears that the FP has a different keel construction. To be honest, most owners on Leopards report this issue and live with it, namely because it's so hard to stop ingress and it doesn't meaningfully affect structural integrity. We've been proactive in trying to remove the water and sealing, but I suspect the location will always lead to some kind of water infiltration
I'm so glad your experience can help a fellow fallower in this way!! This is SO awesome and you are the man for helping your friends and fallowers. The earth needs more humans like you. Keep living the dream and doing good!
Parlay revival rebuilt their sacrificial keels after hurricane damage. You can see what was in theirs. One interesting part they had a similar failure to bond completely. Theirs was crushed but the adhesive didn't fail.
I can't wear a tee shirt for five minutes without getting something on it, never mind buggering around with a keel. Good to see the master at work again. (I do like the cruising bits too though).
I hope you are going to open up the other keel as well. Personally it looks like repair work prior - I hope not original OEM work. Really enjoy your channel!!!
After that "blistering" exposé of Fountaine Pajot, I hope you can still get into Martinique this fall/winter! And I'm glad the exposé was by you and not me. I tend to be "more descriptive"!😉
After exposing this appalling construction you would hope fountaine pajot would have something to say. This is hugely embarrassing and will do measurable harm to their business, and so it should.
There is a saying, "How you do anything is how your do everything." So the crew that 'built' those keels were probably not the A-team who did the hulls with vacuum infusion etc, but that was appalling! I bet they said something like this, "Alors nous devons combler ce vide, récupérons juste un tas de déchets qui traînent dans la cour, mettons-les là-dedans et vaporisons de la mousse pour le recouvrir, personne ne le verra !"
Most 'Factory' Cats share the same traits - built by the lowest bidder. I was warned off F.P. Cats years ago by a friend that was lucky to get rid of his (after putting a ton of work into it).
I chartered a Tayana 52' in the Virgin Islands back in the late 80's. If you could find one, they would be a great project. It had a large aft cabin and was sturdy enough for the charter trade. It also sailed very nicely but could be easily handled by a cruising couple. Happy Hunting!
Wow, the inside of that keel was grim! I guess the obvious question then is whether you'll be dropping the other keel and doing that one at the same time.
Saw a refit of a hurricane damaged catamaran where they used 2 rapid pump floor jacks to lift a whole hull section into place. I think you could get those keels back up quickly with 2 PITTSBURGH2 Ton Low-Profile Floor Jack with RAPID PUMP along with using your wooden guides. $119 each at Harbor Freight
The point is for the keel to have room to break away easily. If they build up the keel too much and then run aground, they will crack the hull instead of breaking off the keel. I think to adhere this back into place in a well defined fashion is a project for some engineer with SolidWorks who can calculate the required minimum and maximum strength and and how not to exceed either. I think simply putting the keel in place, then squirting a can of expanding foam into the gap might be a very good option. Of course, it depends in the foam...
A question (not a suggestion, I've never done this sort of repair, so I don't know).- in building construction, when sealing a joint, it is common to push a piece of close celled foam "backer rod" deep into the joint first, and then pump in the sealant. The backer rod stops the sealant from just going through the assembly, and also allows you to squish the sealant in, against the backer rod, so it spreads out, and presses against both sides of the joint. When you re install the keel, I wonder if the same thing makes sense - lift the keel up into place - use some wedges to keep it centered in the slot, and then push a long backer rod in, all around. Then squirt the sealant in, against the backer rod. The backer will prevent it from going all the way up to the top, where it can never be cut out in the future, and also forces it to spread out a bit, to touch both sides.
It's not a sealant, it's an adhesive. And it is the only thing holding the keel to the hull, so it needs to go all the way up. But the gap is ridiculously wide.
Another great video, Mads. I wonder if a couple of long-throw automotive floor jacks, along with your supporting 1-by lumber guides, would help raise the keel(s) back into it's pocket(s). They may be a little more manageable with the keel raising than bottle jacks. Just a thought. Always look forward to Sunday vids with Sail Life.
Thanks for the inspiring keel repair films, motivated me to remove our cracked keel on our 2007 Mahe, contents of keel the same, an assortment of possibly workshop waste!?
Well that should be an akward conversation at the boat show with Fountaine Pajot. Please let us know what they said about this. No doubt they will be getting grilled by many people in Annapolsis. Oh to be a fly on the wall when that conversation happens.
Ohoooo, boy, did you kick a hornets nest now! The Helia is one of the most elusive boats to try to buy, and they have a really good rep. But this? Oh, man, this is BIG. Good job, Mads, keep it comming! /Catta from Sweden who wants a Helia to sail around the world
RE FITTING KEEL BACK... just an idea. build two frames (front and back) to hold keel in orientation. place them on pallet rucks, sika flex area needed then pump up trucks in unison.
I didn’t read all of the comments so if someone else has already said this, I am sorry. Mads, you said that when you return the keel into its pocket you will need a quick ways to get it all the way up into the pocket. May I suggest a couple of automobile floor jacks. They are available to quickly lift from 2 and 1/2 ton to 5 tons at the pump of the handle and they are affordable. Check out Harbor Freight
I was shopping for catamarans a few years ago (ended up buying a lagoon 42). Took a test sail on a Fountaine Pajot. They're very glitzy. It was my partner's favorite boat. However, when I asked about how repairs could be made to scuffs on the surfaces (which were not wood), all I got was shrugs. I also didn't like how storage under the beds was glassed in so you couldn't find the leaks if you were holed. Not at all surprised to discover the shoddy workmanship of the keels.
Hey Mass, I’ve the perfect project for you. A neighbour cut down several acres of woods a few years back, and has been seasoning it. I saw a great set of plans online. I think the two would go hand in hand. The ultimate diy project. 😎
Hi Mads, have to say that I really enjoyed this video. I think that this should be part of your regular format. Travelling the world, doing some sailing, doing some sightseeing, working on repairs to other peoples boats, doing tours of the boats. And then putting it all together into your videos. At least until you dive into another big boat refit/resurrection. Not sure if you would be familiar with an Aussie show called "Ask the Leyland Brothers" from the late 1970s but now that you are sailing again your videos definitely feel a little bit "Leyland Brothers". Which is great as in their day they were very popular and the format of their show was very unique.
Whatever the glue that was used to hold the keel in place must have been very good stuff. Can't wait to see how you fit the structural plywood back in the top of the keel and then fill it all with foam. I think the only reason the keel never separated from the hull was due to the buoyancy of what material was left in the keel. On a side note, Sue and I had a very nice time at the outing in North Charleston and it was delight to meet both Ava and you and other sailors! Thanks John and Sue
As the keel has foam in it, it seems that the keel is not contributing to the downlifting moment of the boat (like a monihull) , but more to avoid drifting of the boat. Maybe you could do both by adding more weight so the uplifting component is change to downlifting. A real fontaine pajot hack to make it better 😀
I have a feeling that if you get a huge project Ava is going to strap you to the anchor and drop you over the side! I think you aught to cruise for a while FIRST!
You have a truly amazing story that I have been following almost from your start on the repair of Athena. Great work and wonderful adventures! But now I am lost somewhere. What about the putting Athena up on land in Trinidad? Are you done sailing? Where will you live now? Still on Athena but on the dry so to speak? Are you going to search for a new bigger boat? Please, if someone else did follow along better than me may please sort this out for me. Best of luck!!
to put the keel back up easily try a hydraulic lift. One about 6' with side rails. remove the rails make a jig to hold it steady , roll it in place and raise!
Thanks Mads for this very interesting and revealing DIY video/project..really liked it.👍👊 I am also very curious to your new 50-60ft boat project..although lobbied for the almighty 38ft's as 38ft boat owner😅 Sleeping in an aft cabin was no succes here..waves hitting back of boat especially when windy outside..keeping me awake. So I DIY moved to by experienced sailors (and boat designers/builders like Sirius) best sleeping place in the boat..midships..changing part of the saloon there to also my 'skippers hut' and the aft cabin to also a saloon (with the back windows also nice for looking around and have more contact with the outside world often lacking in down placed midships saloon..when not having deck saloon). Enjoy!!!
Mads if you feel like taking a drive to eastern Long Island there’s a couple boats in Greenport that you might be able to make a deal with the yard owner . I should have a video of the boats under my name here.
DIY is your calling. It's nice of you to help out what's his name. You are close to downtown Chareston, SC, a place with an incredible history. Ava is a fantastic tour guide. If she's up to it, a tour of Chareston would add a pleasant change of pace to the video. BTW we live in Pawleys Island, about 80 miles north of Chareston and along the ICW. We'll, wave at you as you pass though Georgetown. 😊 Cheers.
Forts Sumter and Moultrie are both very fascinating and fun to tour. There are a number of colonial and civil war era museum houses to visit as well as the military academy. If one is cruising a motor yacht or a sailboat with a not so tall mast there is an excellent anchorage further up the Ashley River past the opening bridge but I believe the bridge is 55' or thereabouts just past the Megadock marina. The worst part of Charleston is the two awful opening bridges on the ICW at either side of town. Their schedules and blackout times suck making it nearly impossible to go through without stopping for the night at least in Charleston . The current can be scarry fast while hovering and waiting for an opening especially on the side going South out of town. There is a short cut just past that bridge with crazy currents in there too which should be timed to avoid the worst of them. We once spent nearly a half hour to go one mile motoring at full throttle into it
You know much more about that than I do. I'm a retired pilot and live vicariously through videos of sailing, the only item remaining on my bucket list. Cheers
Looking at the shell of the keel I think I would install a wooden support along the top of the keel. Something that would allow through bolts to bring the keel up tight to the hull. I think I would rather be concerned about sealing through hull bolts than concerned about depositing the keel in Davie Jones's Locker somewhere.
Gday Mads - great work. Why out foam back in the keel? I don't understand foam in voids. If any water gets in then it gets wet and absorbs water, it usually does not provide any structural help and makes all work on the area much harder. How about just putting a few little bulkheads in the keel and glassing it back up empty. That is what I would do (my 38ft cat has daggerboards though). That keel makes me shake my head - as an amateur builder, I sometimes get people talking down amateur builds, but FP's contempt for proper procedures is astounding.
For getting the keel back up into the hull, I would think about a wooden frame to keep the repaired keel upright. I would have this frame on top of 2 or 3 automotive scissor jacks. They will have the throw required to lift the keel. They are strong enough to lift cars, shouldn't have a problem lifting the keel. McGyver a way to have a cordless drill turn the jack screws.
There was a Morgan out island 51 that needed a rebuild about a month ago for about 35kUSD. I can't find it but have a look around for one. We have one. The 51 Out island sails beautifully. But the fit out is low quality. Perfect to strip out and start again.
Great video! (As usual) I can't understand why they do that job when manufacturing the keel ¿Maybe they where expecting water to increase the weight of the keel? I would discard this explanation after see how messy was the inside...
Mads, you are in your “element” with vids like this👍🏻
I've come to the conclusion that I'll watch and enjoy whatever Mads and Ava are filming -- DIY or sailing. Great vid!
Considering what you found in Keel #1, and we all know what a perfectionist you are... I'm betting Keel #2 is going to be on your list of things to do!
I was thinking the same thing. I expect the same quality level of construction. Mads attention to detail is superior.
I suspect a lot of us where having those same thoughts.
At the very least I would be drilling a hole or two and inserting a bore scope camera to know exactly what is there. If they choose not to do the repair at this time. It would just require patching a couple drill bit sized holes. Plus giving them the real facts of what is there, instead of imagining one way or the other. (Personally I would want it addressed before I went cruising long term. But to each their own.) There are plenty of catamarans that just do weekend and holiday coastal excursions. So that may factor in to the decision, right or wrong.
I don't think one would have to be a perfectionist to want to fix the other keel. The contents of keel #1 were almost actionable (at least in the US where there is the rule of lawyers ;-)
It wouldn't be a total surprise (at least to me) if the other keel revealed that the bottom half was filled with discarded shopping bags.
@@Gottenhimfella shopping bags 🤣🤣🤣
Fountaine Pajot is officially on notice that what they are putting out is garbage. You exposed them for what they are. To make it right they should be paying for this fix. Hope this video goes viral.
If they pay for this, they will have to make a recall and pay for that as well. It's going to be very interesting to see how this plays out, Mads and Ava how quite a bit of reach, so I doubt FP can just ignore it.
I expect a cease and desist to show up more than a cheque.
@ It goes to show the shoddy work they do. FP is in for a big showdown.
@aserta they have no leg to stand on. Garbage company is my conclusion.
I love the idea of a project that you can “really get you teeth into”. ‘Cos Athena was really only a quick brush up and bit of sanding!
I always felt years ago Mads was never really into sailing his real passion in life is rebuilding and fixing things especially boats ...
Oh oh Fountaine Pajot, hopefully some executives are watching this video…
They don't care AT ALL. Ask me how I know.
They already know, they just don’t care.
They dont give a fuck
Haha!
@philareilly if they cared, it would never be built that way in the first place.
As a sailor since the early 70s and having worked as a laborer at a sailboat dealership while in college, I coined the phrase, "Sailboat manufacturers build 'em to sell, not to sail." The poor construction of that keel confirms what I've said for years. It's never surprising to find poor quality in boat construction. As for you finding another boat project, it just confirms you're a glutten for punishment. But, alas, you're really talented when it comes to DIY and hosting videos. Keep up the good work.
There's an '87 Tayana 52 in San Diego for $152,000. Very pretty example with a fabulous aft cabin. You could do some personalization projects to it and head off into the pacific, without having to pay Panama a stupid amount of money. Also, there are probably a lot of FP owners right now, with beads of sweat running down their faces! 🤣
16:20 my man hasn't finished his current build and already dreaming about the next one. kekw WOuld love to see more boat refits from you. An Amel Super Maramu would be a killer project for you.
Probably one of the most informative DIY videos I have ever seen. Now all I need to do is find an $800,000 boat and a Sawzall.
You'd think a half-million bucks would get you something better. That is some hack work. Glad you're getting it fixed right.
For raining that keel back in place, I was thinking of using a floor jack, like they use for cars. They can handle a lot of weight and lift fairly quickly. The range of motion that they provide should allow you to lift the keel up in one go after the adhesive is applied, so you wont be stuck block and adjusting several times.
Sailboat horror stories are excellent catharsis for all us working on our own boat rehab projects.
New Project?? Now we're talking!!!! :) :) :) I know you guys love sailing, but you were born for this Mads!!!! You are the DIY MASTER!!!! :) :) :)
Back in your natural element Mads. Nice!
What a crap build for the keel. You would be concerned about the build quality of the rest of the boat. Great video, and I’m happy to hear you talk about another refit project👏👏👏👏
Your investigation process and attention to detail are truly impressive - a pleasure to watch! I just hope that the manufacturer of this yacht has seen this for the sake of their future business as well as their existing owners.
Like you, I am astounded at the mess inside that keel. My feeling now is that you should drop the other one and do both of them together because you just know that sooner or later that one is going to go the same way!
Madds, after 5 glorious years of rebuilding a sailboat we thought you would be resigned to sail that boat for 5 years BEFORE looking for another project boat. You know… enjoy the fruits of your labor… and show us what your boat can do. I’m not sure you can sell your boat because it is sooo high tech, most wouldn’t be able to follow all the electronic gadgets to make it work… so unless you can get Brian from Sailing Delos to buy your boat… who will buy your boat. LOL
Ooofah! That was some massively shoddy workmanship from the manufacturer Mads! Glad you guys are rectifying it!
Cheers, Sev
OMG. Those plugs. Who does that? I didnt think I'd enjoy this video as much but this is exactly what gets me about how boats are built especially newer ones. Great reveal Mads!
Fontaine Pajot apparently does that. :)
It does seem pretty rinkydink on a what was probably a million dollar boat (post fitting out and with shakedown expenses rolled in) at one point.
idea for getting the keel back in place. Build a cradle for the keel so its upright and held firmly and then use your bottle jacks to raise the cradle. Not only will it be easier to raise but there should be enough pressure to ensure a bit of squeeze out of the adhesive and a strong bond.
Like a transmission jack. They could go to an auto junk yard and get two scissor jacks for cheap.
Time to write a book or produce an organised series of instructional videos.
I’m never going to be able to afford a small sailing boat let alone a 800k catamaran but I have been fascinated watching all your DIY videos. To be honest, we just love you in your element, which was the original formula that worked so well.
It’s clear you like DIY more than sailing full time.
We have a leopard 46 and had water weeping from the keels. In conversation with the yard and online from Catamaran experts, it's a very common aspect of our boat design, but with some key differences to your situation. In the Leopard there is actually a fiberglassed hollow not filled with foam, where water collects. The keels are also attached with transverse keel bolts to a flange coming out of the hull. The general consensus for us was that if there isn't significant keel boat corrosion the best course of action is to drain and then re-bed the bolts. It appears that the FP has a different keel construction. To be honest, most owners on Leopards report this issue and live with it, namely because it's so hard to stop ingress and it doesn't meaningfully affect structural integrity. We've been proactive in trying to remove the water and sealing, but I suspect the location will always lead to some kind of water infiltration
A project more extensive than the refit of Athena? Oh my!!
You will find your project boat at Green Cove Springs, Florida….where boats go to die. Good episode, Thanks, Andrew
And Fountaine Pajot said...??? Great job as always.
the helia owners really lucked out when Mads agreed to help this project! Enjoy!
What a shocker Mads. Yukko.
Thank you for this insightful video. We are going to build a keel for our FP Mahe 36ft. It is alarming what you found inside this keel.
I will remember this brand of boat, for sure.
Regarding getting keel back, one could get some inspiration from the Sailing Yabá videos.
Wooden wedges and blocks of wood could do it.
Woohoo, back to your roots!
I'm so glad your experience can help a fellow fallower in this way!! This is SO awesome and you are the man for helping your friends and fallowers. The earth needs more humans like you. Keep living the dream and doing good!
A meet up and work with RAN SAILING would be great.
When you said you are going to find a new refit project it made me smile. I REALLY LIKE the refit videos.
Fingers crossed that you find a new project. I also miss the DIY adventure.
Parlay revival rebuilt their sacrificial keels after hurricane damage. You can see what was in theirs. One interesting part they had a similar failure to bond completely. Theirs was crushed but the adhesive didn't fail.
Yep - ua-cam.com/video/AU5Du5wDuvo/v-deo.html
I can't wear a tee shirt for five minutes without getting something on it, never mind buggering around with a keel. Good to see the master at work again. (I do like the cruising bits too though).
I know it's not in the cards but I'd have to pull that other keel and look into it after making the discovery that you guys made.
Be thankful that the top adhesive didn't make contact. Imagine how much more difficult it would have been to remove!
I hope you are going to open up the other keel as well. Personally it looks like repair work prior - I hope not original OEM work.
Really enjoy your channel!!!
After that "blistering" exposé of Fountaine Pajot, I hope you can still get into Martinique this fall/winter! And I'm glad the exposé was by you and not me. I tend to be "more descriptive"!😉
After exposing this appalling construction you would hope fountaine pajot would have something to say. This is hugely embarrassing and will do measurable harm to their business, and so it should.
There is a saying, "How you do anything is how your do everything." So the crew that 'built' those keels were probably not the A-team who did the hulls with vacuum infusion etc, but that was appalling! I bet they said something like this, "Alors nous devons combler ce vide, récupérons juste un tas de déchets qui traînent dans la cour, mettons-les là-dedans et vaporisons de la mousse pour le recouvrir, personne ne le verra !"
Makes you wonder about the quality of work on the rest of the boat
especially considering the price of the boat, one would expect a professional job, clearly it is not
Most 'Factory' Cats share the same traits - built by the lowest bidder. I was warned off F.P. Cats years ago by a friend that was lucky to get rid of his (after putting a ton of work into it).
Yeah, I’m steering clear!
New project
I think I’ll invest in sandpaper stock
I chartered a Tayana 52' in the Virgin Islands back in the late 80's. If you could find one, they would be a great project. It had a large aft cabin and was sturdy enough for the charter trade. It also sailed very nicely but could be easily handled by a cruising couple. Happy Hunting!
Wow, the inside of that keel was grim! I guess the obvious question then is whether you'll be dropping the other keel and doing that one at the same time.
Saw a refit of a hurricane damaged catamaran where they used 2 rapid pump floor jacks to lift a whole hull section into place. I think you could get those keels back up quickly with 2 PITTSBURGH2 Ton Low-Profile Floor Jack with RAPID PUMP along with using your wooden guides. $119 each at Harbor Freight
Would it be a good idea to build-up the tongue of the keel to better fit the pocket in the hull?
That much gap does not seem right at all. Maybe build up the Keel and the pocket a bit?
The point is for the keel to have room to break away easily. If they build up the keel too much and then run aground, they will crack the hull instead of breaking off the keel. I think to adhere this back into place in a well defined fashion is a project for some engineer with SolidWorks who can calculate the required minimum and maximum strength and and how not to exceed either. I think simply putting the keel in place, then squirting a can of expanding foam into the gap might be a very good option. Of course, it depends in the foam...
I propose that the adhesive which didn’t adhere to the pocket sides was cured fully before insertion, and served as an alignment gasket of sorts.
A question (not a suggestion, I've never done this sort of repair, so I don't know).- in building construction, when sealing a joint, it is common to push a piece of close celled foam "backer rod" deep into the joint first, and then pump in the sealant. The backer rod stops the sealant from just going through the assembly, and also allows you to squish the sealant in, against the backer rod, so it spreads out, and presses against both sides of the joint.
When you re install the keel, I wonder if the same thing makes sense - lift the keel up into place - use some wedges to keep it centered in the slot, and then push a long backer rod in, all around. Then squirt the sealant in, against the backer rod. The backer will prevent it from going all the way up to the top, where it can never be cut out in the future, and also forces it to spread out a bit, to touch both sides.
It's not a sealant, it's an adhesive. And it is the only thing holding the keel to the hull, so it needs to go all the way up. But the gap is ridiculously wide.
53 DS Jeanneau.... Perfect
Wow! That’s crazy. I applaud the confidence to dig in and remove that keel. What an insane finding inside! Really great work.
Another great video, Mads. I wonder if a couple of long-throw automotive floor jacks, along with your supporting 1-by lumber guides, would help raise the keel(s) back into it's pocket(s). They may be a little more manageable with the keel raising than bottle jacks. Just a thought. Always look forward to Sunday vids with Sail Life.
I was thinking the same, it's important the keel is secure laterally, as they did when lowering.
Thanks for the inspiring keel repair films, motivated me to remove our cracked keel on our 2007 Mahe, contents of keel the same, an assortment of possibly workshop waste!?
Considering the fine build quality of that keel, I'd be seriously considering dropping the other prophylactically.
I wouldn't have bothered with the first one (what's it matter if its wet), but after seeing this It would be madness not too! 😳😳
Well that should be an akward conversation at the boat show with Fountaine Pajot. Please let us know what they said about this. No doubt they will be getting grilled by many people in Annapolsis. Oh to be a fly on the wall when that conversation happens.
Build a supporting cradle and rent/borrow a fork lift (for the day) for refitting the keels.
Ohoooo, boy, did you kick a hornets nest now! The Helia is one of the most elusive boats to try to buy, and they have a really good rep. But this? Oh, man, this is BIG. Good job, Mads, keep it comming! /Catta from Sweden who wants a Helia to sail around the world
RE FITTING KEEL BACK... just an idea. build two frames (front and back) to hold keel in orientation. place them on pallet rucks, sika flex area needed then pump up trucks in unison.
In few words Great work 🤜🤛
I didn’t read all of the comments so if someone else has already said this, I am sorry.
Mads, you said that when you return the keel into its pocket you will need a quick ways to get it all the way up into the pocket. May I suggest a couple of automobile floor jacks. They are available to quickly lift from 2 and 1/2 ton to 5 tons at the pump of the handle and they are affordable. Check out Harbor Freight
I was shopping for catamarans a few years ago (ended up buying a lagoon 42). Took a test sail on a Fountaine Pajot. They're very glitzy. It was my partner's favorite boat. However, when I asked about how repairs could be made to scuffs on the surfaces (which were not wood), all I got was shrugs. I also didn't like how storage under the beds was glassed in so you couldn't find the leaks if you were holed. Not at all surprised to discover the shoddy workmanship of the keels.
Hey Mass, I’ve the perfect project for you. A neighbour cut down several acres of woods a few years back, and has been seasoning it. I saw a great set of plans online. I think the two would go hand in hand. The ultimate diy project. 😎
I can already see it coming: Mads buys a well (ab-)used Super Maramu. :-)
Where's Ava? She needs to imagine an new intro for you! Seriously, though, I'd have deep questions about the whole boat at this stage!
Hi Mads, have to say that I really enjoyed this video. I think that this should be part of your regular format. Travelling the world, doing some sailing, doing some sightseeing, working on repairs to other peoples boats, doing tours of the boats. And then putting it all together into your videos. At least until you dive into another big boat refit/resurrection.
Not sure if you would be familiar with an Aussie show called "Ask the Leyland Brothers" from the late 1970s but now that you are sailing again your videos definitely feel a little bit "Leyland Brothers". Which is great as in their day they were very popular and the format of their show was very unique.
I vote years of oh glorious sanding!!!😂😊
Quality build! Look at that underbody; no wonder they don't sail to weather.
Gentlemen don't sail to weather.
Most cruisers motor everywhere anyhow.
I’m alarmed by the shoddy craftsmanship found on so many boats.
The sealant removal at 11.18 - 11.25 illustrated some of Mads hidden Salsa dance footwork. With music it has potential as a future TikTok video.
Wow, the build quality. I wonder if they figured that keels get replaced every five years or so. Or that it's "good enough" the way they built it.
Whatever the glue that was used to hold the keel in place must have been very good stuff. Can't wait to see how you fit the structural plywood back in the top of the keel and then fill it all with foam. I think the only reason the keel never separated from the hull was due to the buoyancy of what material was left in the keel. On a side note, Sue and I had a very nice time at the outing in North Charleston and it was delight to meet both Ava and you and other sailors! Thanks John and Sue
Oh Glorious Sanding!!
As the keel has foam in it, it seems that the keel is not contributing to the downlifting moment of the boat (like a monihull) , but more to avoid drifting of the boat. Maybe you could do both by adding more weight so the uplifting component is change to downlifting. A real fontaine pajot hack to make it better 😀
The last thing you want on a cat is heavy keels. Buoyant keels are better.
I have a feeling that if you get a huge project Ava is going to strap you to the anchor and drop you over the side! I think you aught to cruise for a while FIRST!
You have a truly amazing story that I have been following almost from your start on the repair of Athena. Great work and wonderful adventures! But now I am lost somewhere. What about the putting Athena up on land in Trinidad? Are you done sailing? Where will you live now? Still on Athena but on the dry so to speak? Are you going to search for a new bigger boat? Please, if someone else did follow along better than me may please sort this out for me. Best of luck!!
to put the keel back up easily try a hydraulic lift. One about 6' with side rails. remove the rails make a jig to hold it steady , roll it in place and raise!
Sacre bleu!
Fontaine-Pajot owns Dufour these days, too…
Construction air bags for lifting. to put the kill up.and hold it in place
I think that make sound sense. The local fire brigade might pop along to help. 😏
Thanks Mads for this very interesting and revealing DIY video/project..really liked it.👍👊 I am also very curious to your new 50-60ft boat project..although lobbied for the almighty 38ft's as 38ft boat owner😅 Sleeping in an aft cabin was no succes here..waves hitting back of boat especially when windy outside..keeping me awake. So I DIY moved to by experienced sailors (and boat designers/builders like Sirius) best sleeping place in the boat..midships..changing part of the saloon there to also my 'skippers hut' and the aft cabin to also a saloon (with the back windows also nice for looking around and have more contact with the outside world often lacking in down placed midships saloon..when not having deck saloon). Enjoy!!!
At least you have 2 chance's to get it right. 🤣🤣
A couple of trolley jacks might be useful for lifting it back up.
Interesting video 2x👍
Mads if you feel like taking a drive to eastern Long Island there’s a couple boats in Greenport that you might be able to make a deal with the yard owner . I should have a video of the boats under my name here.
Madds, find Yaba, 80 ft schooner and go back 2 1/2 years to 3 years. They had to replace the entire keel.
I know of a Ed Monk design motor sailer it’s on the hard here in Alaska. Ed monk makes so very nice boats
DIY is your calling. It's nice of you to help out what's his name. You are close to downtown Chareston, SC, a place with an incredible history. Ava is a fantastic tour guide. If she's up to it, a tour of Chareston would add a pleasant change of pace to the video. BTW we live in Pawleys Island, about 80 miles north of Chareston and along the ICW. We'll, wave at you as you pass though Georgetown. 😊 Cheers.
Forts Sumter and Moultrie are both very fascinating and fun to tour. There are a number of colonial and civil war era museum houses to visit as well as the military academy. If one is cruising a motor yacht or a sailboat with a not so tall mast there is an excellent anchorage further up the Ashley River past the opening bridge but I believe the bridge is 55' or thereabouts just past the Megadock marina.
The worst part of Charleston is the two awful opening bridges on the ICW at either side of town. Their schedules and blackout times suck making it nearly impossible to go through without stopping for the night at least in Charleston .
The current can be scarry fast while hovering and waiting for an opening especially on the side going South out of town. There is a short cut just past that bridge with crazy currents in there too which should be timed to avoid the worst of them. We once spent nearly a half hour to go one mile motoring at full throttle into it
You know much more about that than I do. I'm a retired pilot and live vicariously through videos of sailing, the only item remaining on my bucket list. Cheers
You rock buddy. Can’t wait for the next rebuild.
I'm a fan of commercial grade cordless tools. But only if I already own a full corded version!
You are hard core!
Looking at the shell of the keel I think I would install a wooden support along the top of the keel. Something that would allow through bolts to bring the keel up tight to the hull. I think I would rather be concerned about sealing through hull bolts than concerned about depositing the keel in Davie Jones's Locker somewhere.
Gday Mads - great work. Why out foam back in the keel? I don't understand foam in voids. If any water gets in then it gets wet and absorbs water, it usually does not provide any structural help and makes all work on the area much harder. How about just putting a few little bulkheads in the keel and glassing it back up empty. That is what I would do (my 38ft cat has daggerboards though). That keel makes me shake my head - as an amateur builder, I sometimes get people talking down amateur builds, but FP's contempt for proper procedures is astounding.
All I can say is WOW!!!
I would love to see you guys restore a huge 70’s catamaran in need of some TLC.
For getting the keel back up into the hull, I would think about a wooden frame to keep the repaired keel upright. I would have this frame on top of 2 or 3 automotive scissor jacks. They will have the throw required to lift the keel. They are strong enough to lift cars, shouldn't have a problem lifting the keel. McGyver a way to have a cordless drill turn the jack screws.
Very impressive work
There was a Morgan out island 51 that needed a rebuild about a month ago for about 35kUSD. I can't find it but have a look around for one. We have one. The 51 Out island sails beautifully. But the fit out is low quality. Perfect to strip out and start again.
Looking forward to your next build. Thanks for the videos
Great video! (As usual) I can't understand why they do that job when manufacturing the keel ¿Maybe they where expecting water to increase the weight of the keel? I would discard this explanation after see how messy was the inside...
Lift the keel back up with two automotive floor jacks. Plenty of range if you elevate them initially.
Mads, how much longer will you be in Charleston? It'd be great if you did another meet up while you're here!