I am on TRT and it doesn't make me any leaner by itself. I think Greg has a healthy leanness, and it makes sense that he has attained a much lower body fat setpoint than the average man after years of bodybuilding and bike racing. More bodyfat is not necessary for healthy hormones especially in an adapted athletic body. I do think he could come off and restore natural testosterone production using thyroid and through diet. Alex eubank has made a terrible mistake
If you’ve never experienced being stage lean, then it’s hard to explain how being only 4-5 lbs away from that isn’t healthy. If his set point was actually that low, it wouldn’t take 1+ hrs of hard bike riding every day along with eating tons of low calorie/high volume foods to keep it at that.
@CamberFitness I can't explain how it works but it is observable. I know athletes who have been 8-10% since youth. Thin skin that pinches away from chiseled muscle. I believe superior genetics and lifelong physicality is the reason. No doubt they are healthy as they're always sharp, energetic, and high output. Very far from average though
It's a fallacy to compare fringe medications that were rushed to be completed, to hormone replacement. It doesn't follow that because that happened with the shots, it is equally likely to happen with a hormone used since the 1960's and is part of our endocrine system. Even if his levels came back, for long term abusers and he's been on TRT for a long time, it could be 1 year or longer. Meanwhile he would crash, have no energy, no sex drive, and possibly other issues like depression. Hypogonadism is treated with a hormone, same with diabetes or menstrual cycle regulation. While he might eventually recover production, it still could be only partial. A long experiment with those side effects that might not even work doesn't sound like a great idea. But Greg knows all this, he should be encouraged to do what he feels is best and what his doctor feels is best. It would also be cool if he continued treatment and kept his bloodwork showing good results. He is at the age where levels begin to drop anyways. High body fat can decrease testosterone, 8% body fat doesn't always mean lower test if you eat enough of all the types of fat. Does Greg say he has body dysmorphia? He stopped abusing steroids, isn't obese or overweight, works out regularly with weights and the bike, eats good. Studies show 10% bf is healthy and damage can occur under 5%. What studies show 8% bf can be unhealthy and why wouldn't Greg not know about this? TRT doesn't make you leaner, he got leaner when he got into racing. He tells people 15% is a good goal because the average person is 33%, so it's a more realistic goal. You don't need to get to single digits
It sounds like you basically made many of the same points that I did. I wasn’t comparing TRT to the shot. The point of that comment was that you can find a doctor to tell you what you want to hear. Looking like a bodybuilder means being really lean. Greg can’t be huge, but he can stay really lean by doing 1+ hrs of hard cardio daily so that’s how he maintains the nearly stage-ready look that he says is unhealthy for other to maintain year round. I wouldn’t call 15% “high” body fat levels considering Greg himself constantly says that is a healthy place to be. He can obviously do what he wants, but it seems hypocritical when he says Alex is dumb for wanting to be on “TRT” so he can be leaner and feel better when Greg also wants to stay single digits, especially when that could be part of the reason he needs to stay on medication.
@@CamberFitness I see. I haven't found any endocrinologists who tell me anything except what is standard to the Endocrine Society standards. As far as I know Graig is saying maintaining stage-ready looks year round is unhealthy, which is around 4-5% BF. Graig is 8%, do you know of any studies that suggest 8% is unhealthy? I don't think 15% is considered high either, Graig uses it as a goal for people who are much higher. Then at 15% you reassess. Although it's anecdotal, I have maintained 8% for several years in the past and never noticed any side effects related to low T. But is there information from medical sources that would suggest 8% is an unhealthy level?' The studies I have found say under 10% can be an issue if your fat intake isn't good. I assume Graig knows how to incorporate the different types of fats into his diet. I always supplemented with omega3, 6, 9 and had a mix of poly/mono/saturated fats. I don't know about Graig and TRT , how long he was off his last cycle, what body fat was he was at, is his doctor aware of what body fat levels he should maintain, how long was he abusing androgens? A good endocrinologist knows about those things. Medical science makes mistakes, especially at the fringe, do you know how many times non-medical advise has harmed people?! Much more, so that doesn't change the scientific method as having the best odds. That issue is between him and a doctor. Eubanks is not trying to stay at contest shape. In his recent videos he is not even close to contest shape. He's gained water and fat. I don't even know if he's even using a clinic. Which is a type of workaround. An actual endocrinologist would tell a healthy young man with decent levels to go home. He looks bigger also. Anecdotally he looks to be doing a small cycle and saying what he will to manage his image. Even if Graig was completely wrong and hypocritical, his advise for Eubanks is a reasonable opinion. The products Graig is pushing I'm skeptical about.
Greg said himself in the video that if he ate more and went up to closer to 15% then his testosterone would probably be higher. I’m not saying that you’ll necessarily be “unhealthy” around 8%. Especially if you’re doing a lot of cardio to maintain it because you can consume more necessary nutrients overall compared to someone just cutting calories while being inactive. Like you said, you didn’t notice if you had any side effects associated with low testosterone while maintaining 8% for year, but I suppose a good question to ask would be whether your testosterone levels were actually LOWER at that 8% than they are now at a higher level? Also, why not continue staying at 8%? I’ve been around what I’d guess was 7% for a bodybuilding show and didn’t really notice a lot aside from being hungry and getting weaker in the gym (aside from peak week when I got really tired from being dehydrated). I’m actually interested to do a diet again and get to that level to compare my testosterone levels to the baseline of 522 ng/dl I got at around 12% body fat a couple months ago.
@@CamberFitness I don't think my levels were much lower, my strength suffered because of lower calories. I stopped to start a bulk phase for winter, mainly just to eat more. But ran a cut into Spring to re-set body fat to lower levels, which I like better so I kept that annual routine. It also works better with being married. Eventually, weather it's kids or whatever, the routine changes. But you just get back into it when you can. Maintaining 8% (tested by calipers) is tricky, it's a commitment. Strength goes away quickly but as long as sex drive is the same it should be fine. I never checked my levels. At the time my priority was being super lean. After 2 years I didn't care as much about being that lean so there was no point. I have had low test and the main thing was a drop in sex drive. This was from a legal pro-hormone, way later. On TRT I have had high testosterone levels, 7-800 ng/dl and even +1500 from overprescribed TRT, that did help put on a few lbs but it wasn't as much as I thought it would be. When it's time to be lean I just go 100% and don't worry too much about hormones. Because when I got lean enough I just carbed up and filled out and any lost muscle comes right back. But the muscles looks better being lean once they come back. My T levels during the long 8% run may have lowered, not enough to effect sex drive. But my focus was on being shredded so I was good with it.
I know all about kids affecting life. I have 6 of them! 😂 I think what a lot of people don’t realize is that being shredded won’t make you happy in the long run. Greg profits a lot from it because it’s relatively easy for him and people want to look that way even though most never will due to lack of commitment it takes to get there (and maintain it like you pointed out). So they buy his stuff like cookbooks, which is good, but they still don’t put in the effort. Alex, on the other hand, thinks being bigger and shredded is what’s going to make him happy in life, but he’ll eventually just want more until he changes his perspective on that fact that he’s the only one who really cares how shredded he looks. I go through phases myself. I get bored of being really lean and feeling weak so I bulk like 10 lbs, do powerlifting for a while, and get way stronger. Then get bored again and cut for a while. My wife doesn’t care how I look either way so it’s all good for me. 🤷♂️
🤔 Do you want to see Coach Greg bulk to a healthy 15% BF?
I am on TRT and it doesn't make me any leaner by itself. I think Greg has a healthy leanness, and it makes sense that he has attained a much lower body fat setpoint than the average man after years of bodybuilding and bike racing. More bodyfat is not necessary for healthy hormones especially in an adapted athletic body. I do think he could come off and restore natural testosterone production using thyroid and through diet.
Alex eubank has made a terrible mistake
If you’ve never experienced being stage lean, then it’s hard to explain how being only 4-5 lbs away from that isn’t healthy. If his set point was actually that low, it wouldn’t take 1+ hrs of hard bike riding every day along with eating tons of low calorie/high volume foods to keep it at that.
@CamberFitness I can't explain how it works but it is observable. I know athletes who have been 8-10% since youth. Thin skin that pinches away from chiseled muscle. I believe superior genetics and lifelong physicality is the reason. No doubt they are healthy as they're always sharp, energetic, and high output. Very far from average though
@mensb1936 I get being 8-10%, but Greg is noticeably leaner. And each percentage below 10 makes a BIG difference on your bodily functions.
of course
👍
It's a fallacy to compare fringe medications that were rushed to be completed, to hormone replacement. It doesn't follow that because that happened with the shots, it is equally likely to happen with a hormone used since the 1960's and is part of our endocrine system.
Even if his levels came back, for long term abusers and he's been on TRT for a long time, it could be 1 year or longer. Meanwhile he would crash, have no energy, no sex drive, and possibly other issues like depression. Hypogonadism is treated with a hormone, same with diabetes or menstrual cycle regulation. While he might eventually recover production, it still could be only partial. A long experiment with those side effects that might not even work doesn't sound like a great idea. But Greg knows all this, he should be encouraged to do what he feels is best and what his doctor feels is best. It would also be cool if he continued treatment and kept his bloodwork showing good results.
He is at the age where levels begin to drop anyways. High body fat can decrease testosterone, 8% body fat doesn't always mean lower test if you eat enough of all the types of fat.
Does Greg say he has body dysmorphia? He stopped abusing steroids, isn't obese or overweight, works out regularly with weights and the bike, eats good. Studies show 10% bf is healthy and damage can occur under 5%. What studies show 8% bf can be unhealthy and why wouldn't Greg not know about this? TRT doesn't make you leaner, he got leaner when he got into racing.
He tells people 15% is a good goal because the average person is 33%, so it's a more realistic goal. You don't need to get to single digits
It sounds like you basically made many of the same points that I did. I wasn’t comparing TRT to the shot. The point of that comment was that you can find a doctor to tell you what you want to hear. Looking like a bodybuilder means being really lean. Greg can’t be huge, but he can stay really lean by doing 1+ hrs of hard cardio daily so that’s how he maintains the nearly stage-ready look that he says is unhealthy for other to maintain year round. I wouldn’t call 15% “high” body fat levels considering Greg himself constantly says that is a healthy place to be. He can obviously do what he wants, but it seems hypocritical when he says Alex is dumb for wanting to be on “TRT” so he can be leaner and feel better when Greg also wants to stay single digits, especially when that could be part of the reason he needs to stay on medication.
@@CamberFitness I see. I haven't found any endocrinologists who tell me anything except what is standard to the Endocrine Society standards. As far as I know Graig is saying maintaining stage-ready looks year round is unhealthy, which is around 4-5% BF. Graig is 8%, do you know of any studies that suggest 8% is unhealthy?
I don't think 15% is considered high either, Graig uses it as a goal for people who are much higher. Then at 15% you reassess. Although it's anecdotal, I have maintained 8% for several years in the past and never noticed any side effects related to low T. But is there information from medical sources that would suggest 8% is an unhealthy level?'
The studies I have found say under 10% can be an issue if your fat intake isn't good. I assume Graig knows how to incorporate the different types of fats into his diet. I always supplemented with omega3, 6, 9 and had a mix of poly/mono/saturated fats.
I don't know about Graig and TRT , how long he was off his last cycle, what body fat was he was at, is his doctor aware of what body fat levels he should maintain, how long was he abusing androgens? A good endocrinologist knows about those things.
Medical science makes mistakes, especially at the fringe, do you know how many times non-medical advise has harmed people?! Much more, so that doesn't change the scientific method as having the best odds. That issue is between him and a doctor.
Eubanks is not trying to stay at contest shape. In his recent videos he is not even close to contest shape. He's gained water and fat. I don't even know if he's even using a clinic. Which is a type of workaround. An actual endocrinologist would tell a healthy young man with decent levels to go home. He looks bigger also. Anecdotally he looks to be doing a small cycle and saying what he will to manage his image.
Even if Graig was completely wrong and hypocritical, his advise for Eubanks is a reasonable opinion. The products Graig is pushing I'm skeptical about.
Greg said himself in the video that if he ate more and went up to closer to 15% then his testosterone would probably be higher. I’m not saying that you’ll necessarily be “unhealthy” around 8%. Especially if you’re doing a lot of cardio to maintain it because you can consume more necessary nutrients overall compared to someone just cutting calories while being inactive.
Like you said, you didn’t notice if you had any side effects associated with low testosterone while maintaining 8% for year, but I suppose a good question to ask would be whether your testosterone levels were actually LOWER at that 8% than they are now at a higher level? Also, why not continue staying at 8%?
I’ve been around what I’d guess was 7% for a bodybuilding show and didn’t really notice a lot aside from being hungry and getting weaker in the gym (aside from peak week when I got really tired from being dehydrated). I’m actually interested to do a diet again and get to that level to compare my testosterone levels to the baseline of 522 ng/dl I got at around 12% body fat a couple months ago.
@@CamberFitness I don't think my levels were much lower, my strength suffered because of lower calories. I stopped to start a bulk phase for winter, mainly just to eat more. But ran a cut into Spring to re-set body fat to lower levels, which I like better so I kept that annual routine. It also works better with being married. Eventually, weather it's kids or whatever, the routine changes. But you just get back into it when you can. Maintaining 8% (tested by calipers) is tricky, it's a commitment. Strength goes away quickly but as long as sex drive is the same it should be fine. I never checked my levels. At the time my priority was being super lean. After 2 years I didn't care as much about being that lean so there was no point.
I have had low test and the main thing was a drop in sex drive. This was from a legal pro-hormone, way later.
On TRT I have had high testosterone levels, 7-800 ng/dl and even +1500 from overprescribed TRT, that did help put on a few lbs but it wasn't as much as I thought it would be. When it's time to be lean I just go 100% and don't worry too much about hormones. Because when I got lean enough I just carbed up and filled out and any lost muscle comes right back. But the muscles looks better being lean once they come back. My T levels during the long 8% run may have lowered, not enough to effect sex drive. But my focus was on being shredded so I was good with it.
I know all about kids affecting life. I have 6 of them! 😂
I think what a lot of people don’t realize is that being shredded won’t make you happy in the long run. Greg profits a lot from it because it’s relatively easy for him and people want to look that way even though most never will due to lack of commitment it takes to get there (and maintain it like you pointed out). So they buy his stuff like cookbooks, which is good, but they still don’t put in the effort.
Alex, on the other hand, thinks being bigger and shredded is what’s going to make him happy in life, but he’ll eventually just want more until he changes his perspective on that fact that he’s the only one who really cares how shredded he looks. I go through phases myself. I get bored of being really lean and feeling weak so I bulk like 10 lbs, do powerlifting for a while, and get way stronger. Then get bored again and cut for a while. My wife doesn’t care how I look either way so it’s all good for me. 🤷♂️