The board splitting trick is awesome. Gonna file that one for future use. Remodels are what built this channel so always fun to see how you fellas tackle the problems.
I was taught that trick in the 1960s, but using a hatchet or hand axe. The same type of approach used for making shake-type shingles by hand. The Wonder Bar method is a lot safer and it's something that you'll want in doing demo work much more than an old-school hatchet.
Paul, you are the best! Always jumping right into the project without delaying and with a smile. Your positive attitude “didn’t expect that but we can handle it” is always amazing. Love watching you 3 guys work. And I heard you say you like to cook. Big bonus!!!
Congrats on the approval passing! I don't think any of us ever had any doubts :D Super excited to see some OG Stud Pack action with a remodel too. Quite the surprise behind the wall, but I am sure Jordan said it, this is gonna be some juicy content! Thank you all for the videos!!!
So just slip that "we passed, first time" comment in so casually. Congrats! That's good work Paul. I never would have suspected plumbing in that wall, so definitely that house has had a remodel in the past. And not well done either. Now you get to fix it all, love it.
i have been watching you since before Jordan bought the property in Texas and you started in the mud of the now standing dream garage. Now you ware working in Rad’s house. I have watched many other people who did remodeling and repair. Paul, you are a great father and father in law. You have a wonderful personality and demeanor. I love watching you guys working together.
Shout out Rad! He’s a well informed homeowner. 👍🏼. Also the stud pack family are some savages (in the nicest way possible) the whole family was there on demo day 💪 btw Paul sr is the definition of work smarter not harder!
Your kids are fortunate to have a professional builder, like you, on permanent retainer. My father was always excited for the next project in my and my brother's home. Miss him every day, especially when I'm trying complete a project with out him.
Remodels are what brought me to your channel. While the dream house is entertaining, I am much more likely to tackle a remodel than a stick built house with exotic plumbing. Thank you for sharing.
My house was built 6 years ago. Builder used finger joint studs everywhere. I thought they were just a way to use up scrap pieces of 2 by. Actually my walls are straight and plum! The short lengths don’t bow as much as a normal stud. Im very happy with the results.
Same with me. Used those studs and have a straight square house. Also used the wood I beam floor joists for a great flat floor. They didn’t have to plane the joists like on here. And I love this channel. A great family, great tips and I like it
I owned a house in Vancouver WA. built in 1995, the attic was full of finger joint 2xs, sold it to my daughter in 2000, she still lives there, very sturdy.
What an exciting project! You can already see how awesome it's gonna be with that open floor plan, and you're getting rid of rotten wood and the builder's mistakes at the same time. Can't wait to see how this turns out!
Paul puts the STUD in Stud Pack!!! Woooo!! This was a great addition to your vids, Jordan. Totally looking forward to all the work done as this is more in my wheelhouse. This is MUCH appreciated. Thanks guys!! 🙏
Congrats on the final! 12:00 This is why I'm hesitant to DIY remodel. I know that as soon as I open up a wall or something, I'm going to find all of that and have no clue how to solve all of those problems.
Very happy for Rad and his bride. It's going to be amazing. I really like watching Paul do his thing. It shows how much he loves the work. Nothing better than learning from a pro!
I suggest you create a groove in the concrete towards that pocket that needed insulation and bring all the wires and water up into the attic space and direct them where they need to be
Nice to see you guys back in your element. I can't wait to see what happens once you get started on the main house. Also, I'm sure you guys are ecstatic about the Dodgers winning the World Series. As am I.
when you shook that wall board it reminded me of my now wifes house. It was modular, 60 ft long and there were 4 boards holding up the porch roof .. the one in the middle could move in circles at the bottom ... i added about 14 supports and jacked and rested and attached both top and bottom ...its load bearing now!
I learn something every time I watch this channel, and it's so positive that I like to watch it on Sunday nights to reduce the Sunday Scaries as I head back to work. I recently tackled a room renovation with new lights, electrical, and a ceiling fan. This channel helped set up my attitude to get this done, and I couldn't be happier with how it turned out! One of the things I ran into was blown cellulose insulation. I see your kids have it in their place, too! I didn't know that was a thing. It's SOOO much better to work with than fiberglass!
Jordan’s garage build was cool but this type of remodeling is why I originally started watching studpack. Found the channel when researching how to take down a load bearing wall and put in a lvl beam
Love that board splitting trick, I've had a couple studs remaining that I have been dreading removing due to multiple wires going through them. That trick helped me get them out a lot quicker than my previous plan
@@absentstars474 reminds me of one of my favorite Mitch Hedberg joke. "What is Fried beans are just as good? What if all this time, we've been wasting our time?" LOL.
Sure reminds me of my kitchen demo a hundred years ago. Best new tools of the last 50 years? The "buzzsaw" and the reciprocating saw. Well done fellas.
That wall reminds me of MY kitchen remodel! But I opened the wall and found they had cheated in both water supply and 4" drains! Rather than fir out the wall to make room for the 4" drains, they just shaved the drywall down to 1/8-1/4" to make it fit. Plus, I knew that it was partially load bearing (and got a 4x12 Doug Fir header). So a lot more work than I planned.
If you want a good use for that counter top that was removed, those make a really good and flat surface for something like assembling a 3d printer, desktop cnc, etc. In case you ever get into that form of maker hobbies.
As much as I love the Stud Pack Dream Garage builds it's also great to see you getting back to your roots for a few episodes. Plus Rad and Summer deserve a little Stud Pack love for all Rad's done for the channel.
My house was a new build when I bought it in 2008. My pipes burst during the '21 winter freeze here in Houston. I found out then how shoddy the build was. I have basic DIY skills but wish I had your knowledge and skills!!
I do love the new build stuff, but remodels are much more fun and engaging. Anyone can build a new house, but it takes brains to remodel properly. Love it!
I love the house build because you all are going through in such detail of what it takes but this takes me back to the good old days of stud pack beginnings.😊
I think Paul and Jordan are showing us the difference the details make. What they did with Garagemahal and what they find as they open up Rad & Summer's walls pretty clearly shows how time and craftsmanship change expectations and results.
just a suggestion for that magnet. glue a small piece of thin felt to it. I find that it leaves little black streaks on the wall as it hits a screw and pulls it in tight to the drywall. or even wrap it in painters tape will help
It is great that thru your channel you are able to do so much building/remodeling for the family. I'm gonna do a dna test to see if we are related. I need an extension on my pole barn!😅
The magnet trick is great. One thing to remember is that they may have run furring strips across the joists, which would cause the magnet to report the wrong direction. As you said, always visually confirm the framing direction.
My wife and I enjoy watching all your videos. In the drawing for Rad and Summer's new kitchen there may be a problem with the refrigerator placement. Our refrigerator looks like the frig in the drawing. If it is the same refrigerator, one of the drawers that spans the full width of the refrigerator requires both doors to fully open greater than 90 degrees or the drawer will not be able to be pulled out. Our frig has to be pulled out about a foot to allow both doors open 180 degrees each. Otherwise the doors only open about 90 degrees and the full width drawer cannot be pulled open.
Was doing a bathroom remodel and during demo found incoming plumbing, electrical, and electrical panel on other side of bathroom wall with the hvac and that disconnect also on same wall as electrical panel. Always find surprises in a remodel, and no 2 jobs ever the same……not even remotely close ✌🏻
Sounds like fun! I always enjoy the videos. I'm glad Rad and Summer are getting some love on their new house. And, when y'all build the dream house, I'll be right there with you!
i watch all of your stuff, and this was an extra nice video. you guys all vibe really well as a family. and Jordan's "we have to leave?" joke was funny, lol
Paul you guys are the best started watching your channel a couple of months ago you and Mike from Obsessed Garage are my favorite guys on UA-cam when it comes to construction work would love to see you and his crew hook up one day on a project . 👍👍
Those finger joint studs hit the DFW area in the mud nineties I used them once got em from Payless cashway framed a 20 # 20 room addition we didn't fire block or sheath the walls stood em up and went home the next morning we drove up and I don't think I've ever been so embarrassed they all were bending in the middle we had to beat our fire blocking in it was a pain in our ass . Sam my sales guy got a ear full yeah they didn't last long they were half the price and supposed to be stronger than regular two bye fours 😊 live and learn right but y'all running into all that plumbing is absolutely the way it goes thanks for sharing guys
I’ve done many remodels and feel so dumb… that crow bar to split the wood trick is so simple… wish I woulda thought of that before. What a simple cool trick! Leave it to Paul 😊
I’ve seen several issues with family “custom cabinet fridges” that in short order required additional cost to fit a different unit or else required downsizing. Maybe leave room around the new fridge inset in case that unit dies and a potentially larger unit could fit, basically, frame a larger void then fill the surround with panel and trim.
Your comment is very valid but it looks like the fridge they have is 36" most aren't wider than that. What you do have to watch for is how the doors open. I have a counter depth fridge but because of the thickness of the doors, I have to leave a 3" gap on each side to allow the doors to open.
Crazy to see what lives on the other side of the drywall we feel protected by! And more importantly the damage these insects and rodents can cause in those wooden houses.
I like the way you split the stud around the electrical and copper. Dream kitchen #2 begins. Keep up the great video. I'm learning a lot for a DIYer myself.
I have to say, the remodels are definitely a lot more interesting. Probably not in a good way for those doing the remodel, but it is for the spectator.
When I have to cut a long cut on drywall, I use the Dewalt DCS571 4 1/2 inch 20V circular saw. The vacuum connects to the saw and it does a quicker job than the multitool.
I know people that did the "California" open floor plan. After a short while they grew to hate it. They said there is nowhere to go to be alone. You feel like you are on display when guest or family are gathered. Especially as the chef cooking and preparing the meals.
The board splitting trick is awesome. Gonna file that one for future use. Remodels are what built this channel so always fun to see how you fellas tackle the problems.
100%. Remodels seem to be the useful and entertaining content, because they're relatable and full of curveballs.
I was taught that trick in the 1960s, but using a hatchet or hand axe. The same type of approach used for making shake-type shingles by hand. The Wonder Bar method is a lot safer and it's something that you'll want in doing demo work much more than an old-school hatchet.
Like a Surgeon! Didn't realize Paul was a Weird Al fan!
Can't watch these parts. Such a nice house getting destroyed...
@@MarkusAvreliusit’s getting rebuilt idiot
Watching this episode reminded me why I fell in love with the Stud Pack channel to begin with. So excited to see this kitchen get remodeled!!
“That’s what makes remodeling so fun” “we’ll figure it out”. Classic lines. And a great attitude about it!
Paul, you are the best! Always jumping right into the project without delaying and with a smile. Your positive attitude “didn’t expect that but we can handle it” is always amazing. Love watching you 3 guys work. And I heard you say you like to cook. Big bonus!!!
Thanks so much!
I hope you appreciate what a true genius your father Paul is. His mathematical and analytical acumen is amazing to watch. 😊
Congrats on the approval passing! I don't think any of us ever had any doubts :D Super excited to see some OG Stud Pack action with a remodel too. Quite the surprise behind the wall, but I am sure Jordan said it, this is gonna be some juicy content! Thank you all for the videos!!!
I like how Rad helped you guys so much and now you’re helping him. Looking forward to more.
Classic Stud Pack. Two and a half hours... you guys make it look so easy!
Seriously. It would have taken me 2 months to commit to it and then I’d start banging the sledgehammer like a maniac 😂
Yeah that would’ve taken me all weekend lol, years of experience doing exactly this Paul’s a pro
Jordan roasting his sister with that emoji at 7:38 lol
Final inspection passed! Congratulations! Time to celebrate!👍
Love this channel, and how calm Paul is when demo reveals surprises.
So just slip that "we passed, first time" comment in so casually. Congrats! That's good work Paul. I never would have suspected plumbing in that wall, so definitely that house has had a remodel in the past. And not well done either. Now you get to fix it all, love it.
I have been doing construction for over 30 years. I find myself still learning. I appreciate the channel. 🤗
Paul knows all the tricks!!!!
This is some top tier content, looks waaaay better with the walls open
i have been watching you since before Jordan bought the property in Texas and you started in the mud of the now standing dream garage.
Now you ware working in Rad’s house.
I have watched many other people who did remodeling and repair.
Paul, you are a great father and father in law. You have a wonderful personality and demeanor. I love watching you guys working together.
Shout out Rad! He’s a well informed homeowner. 👍🏼. Also the stud pack family are some savages (in the nicest way possible) the whole family was there on demo day 💪 btw Paul sr is the definition of work smarter not harder!
Congrats on passing! As much I appreciate a good demo of just pure chaos, the StudPack methodology is something to be admired! Great job dudes!
Your kids are fortunate to have a professional builder, like you, on permanent retainer. My father was always excited for the next project in my and my brother's home. Miss him every day, especially when I'm trying complete a project with out him.
Paul looks so happy here, like a kid in a candy store. This is another fun project to watch.
Remodels are what brought me to your channel. While the dream house is entertaining, I am much more likely to tackle a remodel than a stick built house with exotic plumbing. Thank you for sharing.
Retired contractor..
Finger Jointed Stud were used for vertical runs only.
Lots of builds used them in 70's and 80's.
Yeah, I was surprised that Paul hadn't seen them before, very common way to make up longer boards and save wood.
Love the Dream Garage/House series dont get me wrong but this type of content is SO valuable/relatable. Looking forward to this series.
21:51 - Boy, that burned Romex sure looks spooky! Now I'm thinking about how useful transparent walls would be... 🙃
Yeah, I saw what looked like a burn area on that one line.
Yep, it caught my eye quick also.
I have seen nab staples pounded in too far and the wires overheat. But I wonder if that was just staining from a roof leak. @Paul ?
I thought it was a rusty staple, but it does look like a burn.
It jumped out for me. It's obvious that the cable was severely pinched by the staple. I shifted to plastic staples years ago for that reason.
My house was built 6 years ago. Builder used finger joint studs everywhere. I thought they were just a way to use up scrap pieces of 2 by. Actually my walls are straight and plum! The short lengths don’t bow as much as a normal stud. Im very happy with the results.
Same with me. Used those studs and have a straight square house.
Also used the wood I beam floor joists for a great flat floor. They didn’t have to plane the joists like on here.
And I love this channel. A great family, great tips and I like it
I owned a house in Vancouver WA. built in 1995, the attic was full of finger joint 2xs, sold it to my daughter in 2000, she still lives there, very sturdy.
Nice to see the demo crew back. One of my favorite part of remodelling is demolition. Can't wait to sit back and watch you guys do your thing.
What an exciting project! You can already see how awesome it's gonna be with that open floor plan, and you're getting rid of rotten wood and the builder's mistakes at the same time. Can't wait to see how this turns out!
Paul puts the STUD in Stud Pack!!! Woooo!! This was a great addition to your vids, Jordan. Totally looking forward to all the work done as this is more in my wheelhouse. This is MUCH appreciated. Thanks guys!! 🙏
Congrats on the final!
12:00 This is why I'm hesitant to DIY remodel. I know that as soon as I open up a wall or something, I'm going to find all of that and have no clue how to solve all of those problems.
Very happy for Rad and his bride. It's going to be amazing. I really like watching Paul do his thing. It shows how much he loves the work. Nothing better than learning from a pro!
New build has been really fun, but I missed the remodel work! Excited for this series!!
I suggest you create a groove in the concrete towards that pocket that needed insulation and bring all the wires and water up into the attic space and direct them where they need to be
we had way more termite damage in our 130 year old house repair. But you open every wall and find surprises like these.
Our old house was built in 1956 and in one wall I found 24 empty Rainer Beer bottles. In another wall was about 20 empty tins of Copenhagen.
Nice to see you guys back in your element. I can't wait to see what happens once you get started on the main house. Also, I'm sure you guys are ecstatic about the Dodgers winning the World Series. As am I.
So good to see the whole crew getting back to your roots! Summer and Rad are gonna have an awesome kitchen in no time!
Yay i miss the remodel days! Always a mess in there haha. Excited to see the progress
when you shook that wall board it reminded me of my now wifes house. It was modular, 60 ft long and there were 4 boards holding up the porch roof .. the one in the middle could move in circles at the bottom ... i added about 14 supports and jacked and rested and attached both top and bottom ...its load bearing now!
😮 Rad Summer & Jordan you are sooooo blessed to have PAUL as a dad & friend!
I learn something every time I watch this channel, and it's so positive that I like to watch it on Sunday nights to reduce the Sunday Scaries as I head back to work.
I recently tackled a room renovation with new lights, electrical, and a ceiling fan. This channel helped set up my attitude to get this done, and I couldn't be happier with how it turned out!
One of the things I ran into was blown cellulose insulation. I see your kids have it in their place, too! I didn't know that was a thing. It's SOOO much better to work with than fiberglass!
Jordan’s garage build was cool but this type of remodeling is why I originally started watching studpack. Found the channel when researching how to take down a load bearing wall and put in a lvl beam
Love me some Paul. His knowledge is astonishing
This channel is better than perkins. Love it!
Love that board splitting trick, I've had a couple studs remaining that I have been dreading removing due to multiple wires going through them. That trick helped me get them out a lot quicker than my previous plan
What a blessing to work at your own timelines and work with your beautiful family!! Great episode! God bless!
So, what's the family favorite meal?????????? c'mon, can't leave us hanging.
Looked like red beans. Monday dish.
@@absentstars474 reminds me of one of my favorite Mitch Hedberg joke. "What is Fried beans are just as good? What if all this time, we've been wasting our time?" LOL.
@@hansangb rip mitch
I get sooo disappointed when the end comes! I could watch all day 😂❤
Turd on a stick😅😅😅
Sure reminds me of my kitchen demo a hundred years ago. Best new tools of the last 50 years? The "buzzsaw" and the reciprocating saw. Well done fellas.
A little tape on the Masonry Nail… slows the flight and distance…efficient recovery(search/time)
Man, watching y'all demo, and seeing what y'all create. I wouldn't be worried for a second if y'all came in my house tearing stuff up!
Stud Pack going back to their roots! Love this. Rad and Summer are going to have a slamming new kitchen!
That wall reminds me of MY kitchen remodel! But I opened the wall and found they had cheated in both water supply and 4" drains! Rather than fir out the wall to make room for the 4" drains, they just shaved the drywall down to 1/8-1/4" to make it fit. Plus, I knew that it was partially load bearing (and got a 4x12 Doug Fir header). So a lot more work than I planned.
I'm getting ready to demo a wall for our laundry room upgrade. Picked up some great tips here - wood split, dry wall pull., thanks Stud Pack!
It's awesome to see StudPack back in the renovation business.
If you want a good use for that counter top that was removed, those make a really good and flat surface for something like assembling a 3d printer, desktop cnc, etc. In case you ever get into that form of maker hobbies.
I'm excited. Back to your roots! Yes you never know what is going to be in the wall or what odd choices the last worker made! Keep up the good work.
As much as I love the Stud Pack Dream Garage builds it's also great to see you getting back to your roots for a few episodes. Plus Rad and Summer deserve a little Stud Pack love for all Rad's done for the channel.
My house was a new build when I bought it in 2008. My pipes burst during the '21 winter freeze here in Houston. I found out then how shoddy the build was. I have basic DIY skills but wish I had your knowledge and skills!!
That burnt Romex was a nice touch
As much as I have loved the Stud Pack house, it is great to see some of the remodel roots come out
I do love the new build stuff, but remodels are much more fun and engaging. Anyone can build a new house, but it takes brains to remodel properly. Love it!
I love the house build because you all are going through in such detail of what it takes but this takes me back to the good old days of stud pack beginnings.😊
I think Paul and Jordan are showing us the difference the details make. What they did with Garagemahal and what they find as they open up Rad & Summer's walls pretty clearly shows how time and craftsmanship change expectations and results.
Insert the scratching record sound effect when Paul pulls back the sheet-rock to reveal plumbing.
Like ya said ... typical for project construction. Never surprises me. Ya guys are doing great, as always!
As much as I love the garage build, it's really awesome to see y'all get back to your og type videos!! Can't wait to see the Remodel😁
After two years of dream garage... it's like a vacation to be watching somewhere else! Demo is always fun 🙂
Woot woot let’s goooooo!!! It’s so awesome that you got your pass. I’m excited to see rad and summers new kitchen.
just a suggestion for that magnet. glue a small piece of thin felt to it. I find that it leaves little black streaks on the wall as it hits a screw and pulls it in tight to the drywall. or even wrap it in painters tape will help
21:51 I’d say they were lucky they never had an electrical fire, that wire looks a little toasty.
It is great that thru your channel you are able to do so much building/remodeling for the family. I'm gonna do a dna test to see if we are related. I need an extension on my pole barn!😅
The magnet trick is great. One thing to remember is that they may have run furring strips across the joists, which would cause the magnet to report the wrong direction. As you said, always visually confirm the framing direction.
Boy, that opened up the feel of the house!
My wife and I enjoy watching all your videos. In the drawing for Rad and Summer's new kitchen there may be a problem with the refrigerator placement. Our refrigerator looks like the frig in the drawing. If it is the same refrigerator, one of the drawers that spans the full width of the refrigerator requires both doors to fully open greater than 90 degrees or the drawer will not be able to be pulled out. Our frig has to be pulled out about a foot to allow both doors open 180 degrees each. Otherwise the doors only open about 90 degrees and the full width drawer cannot be pulled open.
Was doing a bathroom remodel and during demo found incoming plumbing, electrical, and electrical panel on other side of bathroom wall with the hvac and that disconnect also on same wall as electrical panel.
Always find surprises in a remodel, and no 2 jobs ever the same……not even remotely close
✌🏻
It appears you're trying to save a lot of that molding. BRAVO! I always take the extra time to try and save and re-use as much molding as possible.
I love the way you enjoy what you are doing. It radiates from you.
Sounds like fun! I always enjoy the videos. I'm glad Rad and Summer are getting some love on their new house. And, when y'all build the dream house, I'll be right there with you!
congradulations on passing your final inspection
Congrats on the approval; not that there could have been any doubt. Great job as always!
Most wholesome and informative channel on UA-cam. Seriously, you guys are just awesome!
Copper thru the slab is what I have. Cant wait to see how you move it. I need to do the same in my house.
i watch all of your stuff, and this was an extra nice video. you guys all vibe really well as a family. and Jordan's "we have to leave?" joke was funny, lol
Paul you guys are the best started watching your channel a couple of months ago you and Mike from Obsessed Garage are my favorite guys on UA-cam when it comes to construction work would love to see you and his crew hook up one day on a project . 👍👍
Those finger joint studs hit the DFW area in the mud nineties I used them once got em from Payless cashway framed a 20 # 20 room addition we didn't fire block or sheath the walls stood em up and went home the next morning we drove up and I don't think I've ever been so embarrassed they all were bending in the middle we had to beat our fire blocking in it was a pain in our ass . Sam my sales guy got a ear full yeah they didn't last long they were half the price and supposed to be stronger than regular two bye fours 😊 live and learn right but y'all running into all that plumbing is absolutely the way it goes thanks for sharing guys
looking forward to the plumbing move should be educational and INTERESTING!!! Have Fun
Precision demo... Gotta love it! I could watch this all day!
Thanks!
Congrats on passing your final inspection!
Biggest surprise of this project is Summer. Wowie, what a unit!
Really great video, glad you are fixing up Rad and Summer's home. Excited for the new main build!
Thanks for taking on another project for Rad & Summer, we miss the weekly videos.
I’ve done many remodels and feel so dumb… that crow bar to split the wood trick is so simple… wish I woulda thought of that before. What a simple cool trick! Leave it to Paul 😊
15:06 Yankee Drill! Love it!
I’ve seen several issues with family “custom cabinet fridges” that in short order required additional cost to fit a different unit or else required downsizing. Maybe leave room around the new fridge inset in case that unit dies and a potentially larger unit could fit, basically, frame a larger void then fill the surround with panel and trim.
Your comment is very valid but it looks like the fridge they have is 36" most aren't wider than that. What you do have to watch for is how the doors open. I have a counter depth fridge but because of the thickness of the doors, I have to leave a 3" gap on each side to allow the doors to open.
Thanks!
Crazy to see what lives on the other side of the drywall we feel protected by! And more importantly the damage these insects and rodents can cause in those wooden houses.
Holy crap! A push drill! I inherited that same tool from my dad.
I like the way you split the stud around the electrical and copper. Dream kitchen #2 begins. Keep up the great video. I'm learning a lot for a DIYer myself.
I have to say, the remodels are definitely a lot more interesting. Probably not in a good way for those doing the remodel, but it is for the spectator.
When I have to cut a long cut on drywall, I use the Dewalt DCS571 4 1/2 inch 20V circular saw. The vacuum connects to the saw and it does a quicker job than the multitool.
Interesting seeing in the walls of older builds.
Oh god the cabinets nailed in to the dry wall.
I know people that did the "California" open floor plan. After a short while they grew to hate it. They said there is nowhere to go to be alone. You feel like you are on display when guest or family are gathered. Especially as the chef cooking and preparing the meals.
Great video guys. Nice to see you back in remodeling mode...