2023 Civic Type R vs 2022 Civic Si | Motor Blows on Track!
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- With the 2023 Civic Type R FL5, we wanted to see if our new 2022 Civic Si could beat @HondaProJason Type R in its natural habitat. We met up with our friends from Spoon to have @DaiYoshihara drive both cars to see which one is faster but the expected unexpectedly happened! Is the 11th gen L15 weaker than the 10th Gen L15 engine!?
Be sure to subscribe as we start getting more in-depth with the internals.
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I strongly dislike HondaProJason, definitely the type of guy to pay $20k in markup and say "that's the price you pay for Honda".
Lol
Man's salty that Jason can probably just ask for a Honda for MSRP and it'll be given to no questions asked
@@Hondaddy nah just the way he talks comes across as rude when he interacts with other people.
He's not a pro of anything, I threw some curve balls at him about Honda info from the past, guy was clueless. He's just a marketing gimmick.
@@YasssStitch I took it as him being a PR guy, he's not familiar with having fans. He's way too up his own ass about things. Watching the video with him and Spoon techs installing rigid collars was agonizing to see him try and squeeze in wherever he can. Doesn't even look confident around tools.
This is low key depressing but thank you for educating us on the L15 platforms. Cant wait for the next video.
So now since i saw this video… i walk to my 22 si after work and we had a long talk!
Right, good to know not to go full bolt ons on the FE1.
thats why the 10th gen Si is better. 100K miles on my tuned e85 Si and beat the piss out of it daily and not a single issue. The 11th gen rods are worse.
I don’t believe the new l15 engine is weaker. This is very common when making torque earlier in the power band. Having an exhaust pulse separated causes earlier spool earlier and also can cause spiking boost on a smaller turbo.
I make the supposed weak k20c1 hold 600whp on stock bottom by tuning torque within a reasonable amount and making torque later. I’ve seen many l15b blow up on ots maps running stock turbo while I’ve tuned plenty 300whp or more on the previous SI with larger turbos and they live.
Trying to make big torque below 3000 rpm on a tiny 1.5l is crazy. Also it was hurt before the track. It just happened to let go on the track.
We can make the L15 hold over 300whp stock motors as well, as you mentioned its done simply by applying tuning strategies to limit the torque…but what’s the fun in that? Lol
Heres why we believe the new gen is weaker, we have been modifying the 10th gens since 2016 and have had both our 2017 Si make way more torque & Hp than this 11th gen and they lasted. The reason larger turbo doesn’t blow as easily is because often times they are moving the powerband (certain drop-ins will make the trq a bigger problem).
The way we see it, why limit ourselves this motor went out boosting 30+ lbs 😂 . We knew this would happen (just a matter of time) but we wanted to share it with the world, since with our 10th gen R&D was typically kept to ourselves.
We already have proven 10th gen engine building recipes to handle 450whp and a 800+ on our drag engine package (that once was a ticking 💥 but the custom rods seem to be doing the trick). We are also currently working on a 11th gen solution which will be announced in time.
@@thefoatmedia have yall ever thought about maybe too much oil sloshing?
@@thefoatmedia What failed? Head gasket? Cracked cylinder sleeve? What damage was there? Rod knock, threw a rod, piston ring lands? What showed on the data logs?
@@jok3yjesu339 There are literally so many factors that can make an engine fail. Only a disassembly and data logs will tell. Otherwise it’s just guessing.
@@weduhpeople8504 Yes, all the above. It's a L15, pick anyone on of those and all at of them at the same time.
This specific Civic SI was running nitrous prior to having issues. So ya, theres that.
Kind of, but the car made more power without nitrous. So that didn’t affect it as much as you’d think. Now the tuning after and prototype turbo helping us make well over 300hp, that’s got something to do with it lol. The crazy part is, we’ve made more power for longer in our 10th gens on stock motors.
“Something broke unfortunately, he said it’s okay” “what” 🤣🤣
That’s what happens when you modify a 1.5 stock block. Tuners only works with what they are given. Honda skimped out.
Engine window mod is one of the best bang for the buck L15 mods
@@user-hh4hc2lt6e yep. Literally taking an L getting an L15 car. I know I did. Terrible engine for sure
@@d0mochi I had zero issues with mine and I was fbo and beat the shit out of it. Almost every person I've seen that blew up their L15 was tuned on Hondata and not Ktuner
@@walahmelons5504 no issues on mine either. It’s a hatch l15ba which has the weaker 59b rods. Fbo, e30 gtx2860r but I’m not gonna pretend the platform is great.
That’s cap. Anyone that really knows cars understands it doesn’t matter what engine management was used. Also the ktuner fan boys just looked out for eachother and never shared when they blow and they only exploited Hondata users. We’ve seen plenty of L15 owners blow there motors and although it’s engine management is irrelevant, it’s equally between Ktuner / Hondata users. There’s way too many variables and lack of taking accountability to truly blame 1 company for things blowing. I’ve heard it all “I don’t beat on my car”, yet their IG shows them doing antilag every night. 😂
@@thefoatmedia lol yep. I use ktuner cause I like the screen but would have no problem jumping ship to flashpro. Fan boys are the worst
Appreciate you pushing the limits for us civic boys and girls. I'm still on the dinosaur 10th gen platform with a built motor so i'm not up to date with these young bucks in their 11th gens. I've heard Powermetrics tunes are more aggressive. So I'm not surprised you threw a rod. Let this be a reference point for tuners and 11th gen L15 owners to learn from this to implement new tuning strategies.
Yes this was known but we just wanted to see how long it would last. It didn’t last long aha
Also thank you for watching!
8th gen coupe here ..damn near 300k still running strong lol
The best thing I ever did was sell my 19 si. That motor beyond sucks. I went coyote with boost and been boosted for 40k on the stock motor over 700whp. it cost less to buy the stang and boost then to buy the si and mod it to 350whp.
@@Hardwaretuned wow great comment. Glad to hear you are where you are with the stang. Ican't wait to get rid if my Si LOL
Nah I think HondaProJason is getting undeserved hate. Seems like a legit friendly guy and always takes time (even while recording) to meet fans.
He’s not a bad dude, but he did have a “I got the new Type R, I’m better than your Si” attitude here, which he should have that attitude because he did have the orange Si when he began being HPJ.
@@claudio_wrx he’s like this in real life. Met him on few occasions.
This mad me not happy with my 2022 si 🥺
same - yet ive ripped it out of the box to 120mph constantly, this was a fluke
Still a great car but ultimately if you want the best reliability, leave your car stock or be prepared to pay to play.
god damn man I'm 3 months into my new Si should i be worried? too late I'm worried
Same bro. Basic bolt ons for me.
Yup bro lol I wouldn’t even go flex fuel
I'm just sticking to basic bolts on and the phearable tune, I daily drive my car and I don't want to push it too much.
Same here man! I’m not trying to beat scats packs in my civic! I just got a bigger intercooler with charge pipes , Intake, bigger exhaust, and a ktuner with the TSP tune. No issue whatever and I’ve had these mods for 20k+ miles! Super happy with my 10th Gen!
Stick to that. I already blew my Si engine.
@@XGen_23 what tune?
@@BrandonKyle7 TSP Tune
@@XGen_23what were all your mods?
We wanna see the teardown bro !
Also sorry bout the car, we all knew it would happen one day though. Glad to see you had good sportsmanship about it though!
This is just opportunity calling you now
Idk why Honda went with the L series for the civic si they should have just kept it k series even if it was a na k series
Honda made the L15 for fuel economy. The 10th gen had oil dilution problem. 11th gen L15 is not that different from 10th gen L15. It is a waste of time modding the L15.
Engine breakdown plz
I agree. Curious to see what failed.
@@chrish8487 a rod. That's what an engine window is. A rod out the block. The e85 and bigger turbo is what did it.
@@jrkustomz5538 I could see a rod giving out, especially with higher torque at lower RPM.
Stock turbo. We swapped back and detuned. The 10th gens definitely lasted at this power level compared to everything we’ve done with the 11th gen. We will be tearing apart soon.
I owe a L15b7 engine. The honda knew that they built a very weaker engine especially to Si. They don't care the buyers all they care is all the sales they have. They are very focus and put too much attention to the R. why?
Sorry man... I think that I just erased the Civic SI and the Acura Integra from my possible car list 🤷🏽♂️. I believe that I will be staying with the VW gang, GLI seems the way to go under $32k. I have a 2016 GTI, so I know how powerful these engines are with a tune and a few bolt ons (I am actually IS38). I wanted to try Honda but they dropped the ball with this super small 1.5 engine, with a bunch of aftermarket parts, tune, etc, you were only 252 to the wheels. I am still interested, keep us posted in the rebuilding process 👍🏾
Mk8 GTI here, loving the thing with some simple bolt ons. Just waiting for a tune
@@A_Guy123 Downpipe and stage 2 is the best upgrade! I am actually IS38 now, that will be your next step... It becomes a monster when you are pushing it, but when cruising it's like a normal car. 98k miles on my GTI since 2016 (360 whp) a modest hp number, people go crazy and tune them to 400+hp.
i mean, most people won't be pounding it on track like they did here.
@@ciello___8307 you are right as well... 👍🏾
Lots of variables. As always, we recommend if you’re concerned about reliability and warranty don’t modify your car. Even then you’re still not safe, that’s why we have Lemon Laws. Lol
These generation civic si are for older folks who want a manual shift vehicle..... 8th gen with the k20z3 was the last best si
Got 245k+ miles on mine and it's still going strong
the best SI was the 10th gen!!
Nah it’s the 8th gen 😅
@@Bbc418 that’s laughable
@@Bbc418 nah I had a 10th and it’s 8th. 10th just has good creature comforts over the 8th. 8th is better in over other way minus torque lol but that’s why we boost them
Nah its the 9th gen
I have a 23 si in transit I planned to build it with bolt ons now I’m a little worried… GR 86 maybe :(
Gr 86 has many other issues right now with blowing up. I'm mean it's a Subaru motor 🤷
Get another car
So this is what we learned. Don't race the new si and don't let Dai drive it.
kidding aside stock si are awesome dailys and Dai is a heck of a great driver.
The Si race car uses the stock motor and does just fine lol. This dude tuned the hell out of his Si with full bolt ons, nitrous, and E85. I’m surprised it didn’t happen sooner
It was a matter of time. FYI Si race cars definitely mess up too, some just don’t share it. This is racing. Race, break, repeat.
I agree that any stock sports car is amazing to drive.
I feel bad, but this is why I keep my k20 in my 8th Gen si
Same. I'm thinking of Hyundai N because of that if it's going to blow might as well have fun instead of L15s.
Same. About to hit 100k on my 08 coupe. It’s been my daily since 2009.
I had an Acura rsx type s, awesome car. No issues. I drove the $%#@ out of that car on a daily basis. Sold it ( kids) with 256k. Will miss it's character
@@fhowland my 08’s got 94k on it
Don’t feel bad, We don’t. This is all part of the game. The 8th gen is a great car. We sold one a few years back. What’s done to it?
Sorry to see this happen. As a former Si owner, I really looked forward to your build and content but I think it's time to move to the FL5. I did and won't look back.
Please keep us updated when you take the engine apart.
Be sure to subscribe
@@thefoatmedia
Please film every aspect, and give us your thoughts on what role the previous turbo played in the failure.
Put a k20a and call it a day👌
You will not be CARB compliant. You will have to go to a referee station. Waste of time.
@@dougritter429 he can put a K20C1 and be CARB compliant, since he’ll still technically have a Civic engine
Honda should be absolutely ashamed of what they've done to their supporters who've given them the success to where they are today. Absolutely disgusting how they're tyrannically pushing electric vehicles.
2 different prices and target market as well as purpose by same manufacturer giving full range great engineering, fun and excitement and best fuel economy with top class reliability.
It’s a 1.5. What do you expect? It’s not a race engine. They are only reliable stock and still nothing is bulletproof.
Does Honda pro Jason seem like maybe not the person we might think he is? Watching him interact with people sure gives off not a good vibe man.
Time for a k20c1 complete change over swap 😳
Well I guess it’s better to not go crazy modding the Si…
Hondas went to shit recently. I worked at a dealer the cvt's are killing themselves at 50k the 1.5t's are blowing up. The new accord is hideous (2023 model hybrid only shit can)
@@lennytate4246 It boggles my mind why manufacturers choose these transmissions, especially Honda. To make it worse some even put a tow rating on these things. They have single handedly ruined the reputation of various manufacturers.
This specific vehicle was running nitrous prior to having issues.
@@ROBMACDUI Thank you for Clarifying that fact!
@@RoadKiller114 if only the base sedan had the manual option…………..
All that modification honda is doing to the fl5 to track it. Make so sense for the money. It's best I buy an m2 and do regular oil change and swap the rims/tires on track day.
We had a stock L15 blow in the last gen civic sport we where driving to auction, barely 15,000 miles and we where doing some highway pulls and BAM. Hole in the block. Warranty covered it I believe but still was absolutely surprised it blew over some minor pulls on a stock motor. L15 turbos are shite. The old L series in the fits with the single cam and NA are solidly reliable but they are trying to much to keep the 1.5 with the power it's pushing.
I still think Honda should have just done a 2.0t K20C in the Si. Just put a smaller turbo on it so it doesn't compete directly with the Type-R. But I think Honda is sand bagging the Si hard by putting a weaker 1.5t in it.
thats because the shitty sport has the weakest rods out of all the L15's
Were you running regular gas.
Plus if your putting that much money into a civic si.....just buy a used or new Honda civic type R!!! Hello!! Lol
Buy a used Accord Sport and add a mild tune. Civic Si L15 is garbage. L15 has oil dilution problem and is not made to be modded for high hp. I told you so in a post before you started modding your Si.
Thanks for your continued feedback. We have extensive knowledge and R&D behind these motors and built correctly the L15 can be made to hold lots of power.
Our L15 10th gen engine package is rated for 450hp.
The oil dilution was actually only a problem for certain areas and the Honda recall fixed that several years ago in the 10th gen. So that hasn’t been an issue for quite some time.
Your “not made to be modded” statement still hold true because Honda built this for economy but we aren’t worried about breaking. We decided there’s more value in sharing our experience/ knowledge with all of you. Which is why with this build we are being more transparent and going through every phase (even though we know what it takes to just make lots of power). Thanks for watching and feel free to always reach out.
@@thefoatmedia If you have knowledge, your engine would not have blown up. Just buy a CTR.
@@dougritter429 lol. Good one.
Guy with the si seemed pretty gumble. Yeah his car vlew it's motor....but life goes on.
Anotha one bites the dust
Coming from a former 10th gen si owner, the L15 is a garbage motor. Reason why I wouldn’t buy another si again
We have 2 10th gens, so we definitely knew this was bound to happen, unless it’s build properly. It seems that the 11th gen is weaker.
What do you have now?
Could be right but what's your justification for saying that? Other dude just claimed it's weaker than the 10th gen after testing...wait for it...one 11th gen engine. You both seem very credible. You do realize that Honda didn't intend for you pretend to be engineers, as is typical with your demographic.
@@RAY_FILET bro these engines are ass, I don’t know what to tell you
Gone In 30 Seconds!
Stumbled upon this page and now I just subbed because I wanna see what you end up doing lol good luck man, sucks to put a hole in a motor.
I'm going to take a wild guess before even watching that it wasn't the Type R motor that blew
Lol great guess. Hope you still watched it.
Guess this answers whether the new turbo Hondas will be as reliable as the old na ones..
Never buy the first year of a new generation that’s when all the problems are discovered…. My 2018 civic si coupe is still running strong with FBO mods….L15 motor is good on 10th gen.
That’s exactly why we buy them. We got two 10th gens when they first came out and our R&D plays a key role with developing that platform.
Hilarious! Be sure to blow another motor pushing all that power on a weenie sized 1.5t
What’s hilarious is you think it’s a lot of power. We build these little 1.5T to easily handle over 500hp reliably. Be sure to subscribe and thanks for watching.
*blows engine* proceeds to continue driving and not pull off immediately to avoid oil down all over the track.. Jesus lol.
Shame Honda doesn't build them like they used too..
Ecobox tuned to produce more power it can handle equals kaboom. A ticking time bomb. All that money thrown into a car that doesnt deserve it, you could have a really good true sports car or vehicle that is faster haha
Yeah, blindly throwing $ at an econobox is stupid. Just buy a real sports car. Si is tuned to save gas from the factory. Stock internals are not forged.
Wow I thought my EA888.3 was a bad engine.
I make double the power on a stock bottom end. My Audi is FBO e85.
Did you forget to shove in some injectors or is the L15 really that shit?
Shame they didn't stick with the K series. Would never happen unless inswnely boosted without a tune. Long live the mighty k20/k24. L15 can't handle it
GREAT VIDEO-Find a way to show the MPH/RPM please SIR :)
Oh look...
Its HondaProDickhead!
He did seem like a dickhead here tbh, he had that “I got the new Type R, I’m the top dog” attitude in this video.
@@claudio_wrx yup. That's how he walks around ALL the time. Dude has less than 200k subs. Lol. Settle your tiny ass down. Haha.
That is way to much power for a 1.5L stock motor.. anything over a stage one tune is probably a bad idea!!!
That engine wasn’t made to be pushed like that. Too small of a displacement. 2.0 or higher anyday
This is an ignorant statement.
Displacement does not dictate engine longevity or capability. This is an issue with this particular engine's design.
Accord Sport 2.0T K20c4 does not blow up with mild mods.
@@dougritter429 Last I checked, the K series and L series were completely different engines.
The L series is weaker because of how it was designed, not because it has smaller displacement.
Don't be daft.
Honda HPD crate engine 1.5L $5k, built 1.5L budget break down or smog legal Type R conversion!
I just bought a 22 si because of Nick lol and now he broke his
Lol but if you watch the videos we say the motors won’t last of you start pushing them
what was the 4 things he changed first on the type? couldn’t catch the last two. Suspension, brakes and what’s the next two?
Sorry about this man this stinks! Let us know what broke
Thanks and no worries this is all part of the game
Don’t know if you should be running 85 with the extra boost. A stock si needs 90. I have a 23 si and I put 89 in it. I don’t really push it at all, and I Don’t really plan on modding it that much. Maybe just a new intake and exhaust. But I’m not messing with the engine. I daily drive it and don’t want to blow it up. But you should’ve at least ran 89. If I were you, I would’ve ran 93, fck it.
Why is this Semi Pro on this video 😂😂😂 He’s killing the Ososick Vibes. Even The Boys at Grand Tour are cringey over this video.. 💀💀
Honda pro Jason kinda annoying tbh
Title should have been "2022 Civic Si | Motor Blows on Track!"
I ran Hondata tune 2 for a year. Most of the car is holding strong. Except for the plastic valve cover weeping some oil and all ten front wheel studs failed.
All these new engines are shit it's almost like they don't care because everything is gonna be electric soon anyway. At least u can beat on an electric car all day and it won't blow
Kinda sucks to know that my motor will eventually blow up when I try to add 100hp
Add over 50% more power and torque to any car and be prepared for failures.
@@ROBMACDUI not true
@@mogulme6190 Absolutely true. All vehicle components have an acceptable variance for strength/measurents etc. Manufacturers have to keep power at a certain level to account for those vehicles with weaker components and is why some cars of the same make and model can handle a lot more power and some fail with relatively low additional power. Also, it's not just the engine. All of the powertrain components need to be able to handle the additional stress. Because of this you are always taking a risk for failure when adding power to any vehicle. Of course some tolerate it better than others but it's still a risk.
@@ROBMACDUIjust change the internals
@Tutturu If the engine was the only part of the equation, then sure, but adding that much more power to the engine will also require that every other component can handle it. Transmission, differential, clutch, cooling system, axles, etc. Don't think there was any year civic that didn't hit a transmission torque limit pretty quickly. If you want reliable power, either pay the price of upgrades or simply buy a platform built from the factory to handle it.
Lmao i knew that l15 was going to blow after getting tuned. Worst engine EVER
the problem here is not the cc of the engine it doesnt matter if its a 1.5 ltrs or a 1.3 ltr , its what it was designed for and in this case it was economy. toyota did a 1.5ltr which people are pushing out 500 bhp from it but it was designed as a race engine not being just a yaris 1.5 engine and put boltons to push 300bhp . Im sure if honda designed a 1.5ltr race engine it could be pushed way above the 300bhp just the one in the Si is not built for that .
Exactly. Our full race 1.5T engine package makes over 800hp. It’s in our 10th gen civic si.
@@thefoatmedia ❤️❤️ wow 800bhp from a 1.5 ltr sounds crazy
Let me get the brakes tho
Don't blame the driver blame your car 😅
Lol did you watch all of it. In the first part of the video they tell the driver we said “it’s ok”.
Damn 😢
Though I always thought it’d be cool to swap in the crate K,
then onto the EV Prelude
I through a rod in my 2017 Honda Civic SI- 27WON TURBO, CAI, INTERCOOLER, HONDATA, FLEX FUEL- USED ALMOST 100% ETHANOL SOMETIMES- Too much power for the little 1.5
Please please please please
Bro please make it in to HPD 2.0 SI-R I want to do that too bro please please please please
I don’t like the new Honda looks are bad and they are just too slow keep in mind these are no longer affordable and now are more family cars then tunner
mean while a stock civic non si has a better lap time than this blown up car :)
gotta love that sound of crunching metal
My 2018 Si engine blew at the track too. L15 Series are unreliable engines.
SiR like I said
Sorry tho bro 😕
Will be watching too see what happened...Would think the 11th gen should better if not stronger then 10th.... Maybe turbo upgrade and tune tòo much for stock engine..?????🤔🤔🤔
Running ethanol on the 1.5t si or 2.0t Fk8 will always end up causing a rod to go.
@@robertblack6630 Is there a fine line with the tune that will cause this… With more conservative tune been a , how should I say More Lasting Out Come??
That engine blew up trying to make Altima 3.5 whp lol
If only you have access to 5 Spoon motors! Oh wait don’t you? 😅
Still don't see the point of modding a car with 200hp. Waste of money.
Never pay a mark up, pay more and just get a better car than a civic
22 Si with 16k miles pushing 22psi on everything stock but a tsp ktune and its redline all day long no problems whatsoever
That's great. Motors will definitely last longer with less power.
Ososik they should call you pionier of Si generations.... sisepuede ✊
Oh well I guess time to swap to k24 and destroy that Type R? 🙃
Might as well buy a gen old rs3 and be 10x quicker😂
Let me know what engine you put I ha e a accord 1.5 engine went out looking to put something different
Damn in Canada we don’t fear emissions like you lol. I saw pure fear in your face! 😂
Canada doesn’t have sarcasm? 😂
I never liked this 1.5 tiny engines
What caused it to blow?
The internals can not handle an additional 100 hp.
Damn me being on the verge of selling my 8th gen si with a K20 for a newer Si or type R just stopped me dead in my tracks. Those engines are...disappointing
@Hula ChiChi What?
@Hula ChiChi never had any issues with my 10th gen, 11th gen not that great
@Hula ChiChi The new 1.5 isn't weak in the Si by any means. The engines are still practically built the same. Ethanol increases cylinder pressure and increases bottom end torque tremendously. The torque curve is too aggressive and bends rods / wears out the main bearings too quickly. You can run a bigger turbo on these 1.5's and get more reliability. run bigger turbo on 93 or high octane versus driving stock turbo with ethanol
@Hula ChiChi older generation k20z3 with a turbo blows away the new K20C turbo the older motors cylinder head flows way better and it has more potential people who build these engines like 4 piston racing even they say that themselves
Not really commenting on the build quality per se but they seem a lot less fun than my K20Z3 and they seem to not be able to take the same kind of abuse.
Typer 2023 kill everyone !!!!
These new Hondas are built different
Built inside out after some hard miles. Lol
@@thefoatmedia 🤣
Each spoon sticker immediate 20 horsepower each..
So let me get this right. The engine blew, because it has too much power after modification. Not because it's the 1.5t, correct?🤔
Too much power for a stock 1.5t yes. Our built 1.5t can hold over 500. Our drag set up makes 800+ but that’s a ticking time bomb as well….maybe because so far the latest changes, it’s still holding.
Dam. This sux.. Sorry to hear. What was the engine mod?
The FL5 is no match for the last real Type-R FD2R mod for mod…
I hope Honda has a return to form, driving it was embarrassing.
You should look into a new type R engine swap
Guy really ask if the engine is in the back? 😂
It shouldn’t have blown time to holler at the tuner 😅
That's not a L that's just a redo
L15 has tiny rod bolts among other things. Its a fuel efficient engine not for racing. Well you can but prepare to spend some money. Well a lot 😂
We have a 800+ Hp and a 350hp L15 10th gen…so we’re prepared lol. It’s actually not a lot of $$ when you have the recipe.