Totally agree with this comment. You do seem to take liberties with the other "drivers". Clearly if car damage was active you'd have been out of the running. Something I've noticed on several of your "races".
I am an older viewer. I'm 58, but UA-cam is almost all I watch these days. I like the absolute control it gives me over what I watch. I had this video come up in my feed, probably because I am also an avid gamer and watch a lot of video game stuff. I enjoyed the video a lot. Because of that I came over to your channel to see more of what you are about. I decided to subscribe. I wish you well. I will like and try to comment often as videos post from you. My suspicion is that your chosen field of interest may be too specific to really blow up, but if your desire is to make a living from UA-cam, I hope you succeed. Usually content providers talk far too much. In this case, your knowledge of the various eccentricities of these cars was not only entertaining, but informative. You also don't sound like an idiot millennial, which is an additional plus to a more mature viewer like myself. One suggestion: observing the three models in this video made me curious about other examples from this period. Returning to this type of race at a later date when more models are available might be nice. Likewise other eras with different styles of cars, as well. Cheers.
Hi Sam! Appreciate the kind compliments. I am not trying to make a living at UA-cam. I enjoy racing and experiencing these types of cars, and its from comments like yours and the many others here that help me enjoy and learn about them even more. Some might be discouraged by comments that point out facts that I got wrong or missed, but they are actually very much appreciated! I hope through my videos I can show more people how awesome racing was and encourage some more sim racers to take a look at these awesome cars and tracks and maybe take a break from the common stuff :)
@@GPLaps You've singlehandedly convinced me to buy assetto corsa because of these videos. Love the info and everything about the videos, really fun to see you drive and talk about these old cars, Keep up the good work, and can't wait to see your next upload!
the only thing that ruins the old racing feeling for modern games is the fact you don't get random mechanical weirdness. :p No driving one handed while trying to re-wire the loom. or having your mechanic hang out the car re-attaching the exhaust.
Former Alfa Romeo mechanic Giulio Ramponi recalled a race (or is it a hillclimb?) in the early-mid 1920s in which he's a riding mechanic to Giuseppe Campari's Alfa. According to him, the bonnet (or hood in American English) came loose, so he had to secure it by reaching out and pinning it down with his arms while Campari drove on!
@@jcgabriel1569 I was very lucky to know an old Maserati Mechanic who worked from the 30's then back with them post war, some of the stories! heck It did not change much from my team working in Poole for Penske we got a car back that was about 80% duct tape. :p
@@Skreezilla I once watched l a footage of the 1936 Vanderbilt Cup race. Tazio Nuvolari won the race, but caught in the footage is his teammate, Antonio Brivio, almost standing in the cockpit, steering with one hand while the other hand is stretched out, reaching for the bonnet (hood) of the car. It had come loose and he's holding it down to prevent it from flying off while he's making his way to the pits to have it secured.
That’s why I’d love to see Pre-War race cars in a game like BeamNG, which has been working on its AI, & now has some Multiplayer abilities. I feel like no other game could simulate the danger of those fragile pre war cars like BeamNG could.
Yeah, he mentioned it, though he said "Alfa Romeo" instead of "Fiat", but in any case, that sounds good. That would be 4 of the 6 from that race field. Now, I imagine compiling what will be needed for the Delage will be easier than getting info on the Rolland Pilain.
Shame that it's very hard to get a lot of info on cars this old. Very few of the cars from this time frame survived to this day, and some (if not all) of the surviving specimens may no longer had the same specifications as they initially have. The plans, blueprints and factory technical data were also probably hard to come by (Fiat seems to have destroyed almost everything related to their GP project when they closed down shop). So big thumbs up and cheers to the people behind these cars!
@@bobmcl2406 Just in a few quick searches, I'm really only finding a Type 51 mod, which was an evolution of the Type 35.
3 роки тому+2
The weird wheels tracks on the Voisin had a purpose. The idea was that with such narrow rear tracks, no differential would be needed. Voisin were accustomed to "-less" solutions, for example they were advocates of valve-less engines. They had such a romantic idea of automobiles !
ah yes, if only tilke designed literal death traps with houses for runoff and flat out speeds through every single corner with blind crests and such! rather than these boring "safe" tracks. Just don't crash! Easy!
Coming back to where I first discovered your channel, it's really interesting how your channel evolved from "someone shared these cool classic cars let's check them out" to the semi-showcase, semi-documentary format you have today.
@@Logan912 In 1932, the steeply-banked Nordkurve (North Curve) hadn't been built yet, it's just a long, sweeping, flat left turn. They rebuilt the Nordkurve into the infamous "wall of death" when some Olympic games-related buildings were built nearby for the 1936 Olympic Games..
@@mikeynanez3038 You're talking about the story put forward about the Mercedes Benz W25 having its white paint stripped off to make it to the weight limit, right before a race, in 1934. The story is a complete and utter lie. It only started to exist in Mercedes Benz racing team manager Alfred Neubauer's autobiography many years later and somehow, it stuck. That is despite the fact that there were gaping holes in the story's details, and more importantly, Neubauer's known for " putting some seasoning" to stories, if not outright fabricating new ones, to strike up interesting conversation. In fact, I don't understand why, at times, Mercedes Benz kept on telling the "paint stripping story" as part of their stories regarding the Silver Arrows, despite the fact that it's one of the Neubauer stories that is a complete fabrication.
Been waiting for something like this for ages! I think the scariest part of driving these 20s cars is the braking. You come up to a turn, step on the brake pedal, and go flying into a wall after barely slowing down at all. Engine braking in these things is not for the faint of heart, lol. A great track I've found to race them is Donnington 1938 (ua-cam.com/video/0U1ffmp2I5s/v-deo.html). Hope you get to showcase more of Fat-Alfie's tracks. The Deutchlandring might just be my favorite, purely because of its history and just how pretty it is.
Yeah, I quite enjoy the D-Ring as well. Apart from the aesthetics, you get that feeling you're really going somewhere, while still generally feeling like you know where you are. And it has 3 clear sectors that differ notably from one another: 1) ultra-high-speed, 2) meandering through the forest still at a pretty good clip, 3) the hill climb. And yes, that final section of switchbacks was used as an actual hillclimb in its own right.
@@Villoresi Exactly. I suppose road courses have that feeling of going somewhere that most purpose-built tracks just lack. Nailing that second sector in an old car almost feels like threading a needle, and that long left turn by the big hotel is awesome when you're on the limit of grip and manage to keep your foot down. Don't know if you're into that, but I've had tons of fun lapping the RedBull X2010 around it. It feels more like playing Trackmania with how much grip you have, and you'll be doing 400+km/h through some parts of the track. If you're up for it, I challenge you to put in a sub-2min lap!
I just tried them out. The brakes are more for positioning the car than for actual braking. but still, the car slows down a bit. Couragely heel and toe punching the gas while downshifting makes it an interesting additional option for reducing speed a bit more. xD
I imagine drivers sought to avoid any kind of close "side by side" racing and would just let people by if they got close enough just to not risk breaking the car....or dying.
I like the interesting way the Bugatti has its exhaust lined up - if you short-shift it, the engine burns your 'nads off. And that Voisin looks quite a bit like a larger Morgan Three-Wheeler - if you squint your eyes a bit. That Fonteny circuit looks like the result of what would happen if the Nordschleife and classic Spa had a baby. Every serious sim-racer worth his or her salt should have this in their Assetto collection.
Assetto Corsa is certainly an eye-opening sim racer due to the sheer depth of its modding community; 1920's grand Prix racers, student project formula machines, Soviet era touring cars, and even the most mundane of production models. Name it, and Assetto Corsa likely has it in some capacity.
You could really make a historical grid for these cars as everyone raced their national colors in those days. It wouldn’t be hard, just gotta get the right number.
"Hello, my name is Bob, and I am addicted to vintage mods for Assetto Corsa...." 😆 . Seriously, this video was great, love the course and the cars. Thanks for pointing the way to many lost hours!
I always wondered, why that decade was called the "Golden 20's". Well, now I know! Just wished I had come across your channel far earlier. Good thing is, there's no more questioning about what to do in times of limited social contacts. Thanks for entertaining us that brilliantly!
Sunbeam was a British car company which struggled to pay back money it borrowed to go racing and was absorbed into the Rootes Group in 1934. To know where it went from there would be to delve into the mire of the UK Auto Industry but to cut a very long story short you could still get Sunbeams up until the early 80's with the Chrysler then Talbot Sunbeam which won the World Rally Championship in 1981. They capitalised on that sporting success by closing the factory and discontinuing the model. Nothing called Sunbeam has been made since
Fonteny is one of those circuits that if you're in the mood is fantastic because it just keeps twisting and winding and never seems to end, but if you're not, it's a real chore to drive...because it just keeps twisting and winding, and never seems to end. 😜
Well I just sat down at my pc and watched this all the way through. I have to admit parts of it were hilarious when you ventured into the scenery at the same places in successive cars. But a very interesting mod and I'm just about to download it and have a go.
I am GRATEFUL that you are putting out more GPL( and Assetto Corsa)content. I found my CD(GPL) last week that I thought I had lost. It's my favorite game and I haven't played in years as I'm a MAC man now. Looks like I'm going to get a console in my advanced years. I was avoiding it. Can't now.
Before I bought a gaming PC earlier this year I ran GPL and Assetto Corsa on my iMac (2017 5k, 3.8 GHz i5, Radeon Pro 580) in Windows 10 using Bootcamp and storing the games on an external USB 3 drive. Performance was quite satsifactory. GPL is a lot of work to set up but the process is well documented.
Bugatti was thought to create lift, but the main problem was that it was twitchy longitudinally into the corners - indeed, one crashed into the crowd, injuring several spectators. I don't know much about the Voisin, other than it was a semi-monocoque. Sunbeam was based on the 1922 Fiat, and represented the future for the next decade or so (really until the Mercedes and Auto Unions came into GP racing in 1934 the basic layout was the same, albeit continuously improved).
the chap who drove the winning Sunbeam in the French Grand Prix in 1923 was Sir Henry Segrave, the most extraordinary man, who had been both a pilot and an infantry officer in World War 1, being shot down by anti-aircraft fire and seriously injured, and also shot in the shoulder while fighting hand to hand on the ground. Then he went on to drive in Grands Prix, as well as break both both the land and water world speed records, the first man to hold both at once. he died when his speedboat capsized as he broke the water speed record, still in his early 30s.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE these vintage racing machines! I am so happy to see you making videos in Assetto Corsa, with these wonderful mods. Keep up the great work! Looking forward to your next video.
The car was not backfiring. That was just unburnt fuel igniting in the exhaust system. A backfire occurs when the fuel / air mixture ignites *before* "the piston reaches top dead centre. The force of the ignition is thus pushing the crankshaft *backwards*. Hence the term" back-fire". And, yes, it is really bad for the engine.
Must have been so much fun being a car builder in those days. (Providing you were rich of course) Constantly trying new things to try and edge out extra speed. These days we have it all figured out.
Nice video! In fact the cornering abilities of the Voisin should be rather limited due to the lack of a differential (a reason why Voisin tried to keep the rear wheels as close as possible). Now the rear wheels were made like that mainly for aerodynamic purposes. However, the Voisin was also one of the very first monocoque designs, so not really a design deadend. It used a wooden frame to nail the structuring aluminium panels the body was made of. And it was also a fairly good training exercice for André Lefevre who is famous for the 2cv. It used many original solutions, such as the propeller mounted at the front in order to collect energy to activate the radiator's pump (instead of blowing the radiator like nowadays), and was made in less than 6 months, unlike the Sunbeams, which teams had more experience from other races. The lack of planning and preparation (especially form the race commity), as rather common in france was the main reason why Bugatti, Delage, Roland Pilain and Voisin were unable to fully test and optimise their cars during the race. The voisin later won a race in Italy, but there isn't much to document this event. All of this doesn't mean the British and italians didn't do a very nice work aswell, as they did, and all i read on this subject depicts them as 'clockwork proved mechanic' with powerfull reliable engines. Anyway, thanks for the vid, maybe i'll consider buying this game...
Crazy stuff :D Yeah, the track seems to be in the 60s as you said, the Citroën type H ambulances: this model was built in 1948 (for ex @1:49), the TUB model from the same manufacturer was built in 1939 (@2:06), and the Total Group was founded in 1924 (@2:32), under another French name, the Total brand name only appeared in 1954 - and the logo we see is a mix of the original 1954 logo and the new one which was used from 1955 to 1963. The Esso trademark was created before 1923, but I doubt it was much present in France before the first refinery in 1933 (@2:47). Didn't check the other stuff, it seems fantastic, and those cobbles! Those pilots had a lot of courage.
Awesome video! Love looking into this era of racing. If you are interested in seeing what a pre-WW1 race would look like then pull up Goodwood SpeedWeek S.F. Edge Trophy, they've got a bunch of historics from around 1909 racing.
I am a fan on spotting faults in movies.. Here is a few for starters: Citoen cammionette with that fluted aluminum body sheeting and a Unimog truck on the field in 1923...
A quick one about the different types of car, quite often auto manufacturers only produced a rolling unit (engine and chassis) and buyers were tasked with putting bodies on their cars, this meant that a lot of cars were taken to coachbuilders to be finished. Different body shapes on the same car were still quite common coming into the 1920s. I cannot find if this was the case with the Sunbeam, Voisin or the Bugatti, but other prewar race cars certainly have been this as the case.
Wow very intresting and very very fun. I really do hope it makes into the online series of auto racing. I am pretty sure that even the new young guys will absolutely love it, even I loved it. Really looking forward to this one. What a great fun. Obviously some of the great fun comes from dying a couple of times during the race 😂 and still be alive. 🏎️
Hi GP, thanks for this awesome video! It was really fun to watch and so interesting! I'm so happy to have come across your channel, I play ACC to satisfy my need for modern racing and I'm more intrigued in using AC for this older type of racing, so I'll definitely try these mods. I might even try GP Legends again, thanks to you! Anyway, love your great content!!
Wonderful film! Great old cars on a beautiful track/road. I'll have to look out for the mod. I really like the TT circuit available for rF2 and this is also a beautiful place to drive. The cars look very good and interesting to drive on their bicycle tyres and weak brakes. Different and very entertaining. Thanks.
These cars are very worth your time, especially now that the grid is complete. The only downside to these cars is the lack of contemporaneous circuits to race them on. Thankfully though anything prior to the late 70's is lax enough in safety features and early enough in advertisement branding that generally those tracks won't be too immersion breaking.
It seems Bugatti were ahead of the time with its Type 32 model. They began paying attention to aerodynamics in order to minimize drag decades before racing cars were shaped from an aerodynamic starting point. I read that the Bugatti Type 32 managed a 180km/h top speed in the actual 1923 French GP - which is impressive considering it was powered by a small engine producing merely 90hp - which actually wasn't much even by early 1920's standards. The Fiat 805/405 in this very race had a 130hp engine and the winning Sunbeam had around 115hp. Perhaps it's best to think in percentage advantage and not number of horsepower. The Fiat 805/405 had 40hp more than the Bugatti Type 32 but percentage-wise it's a 45% power increase, yes almost 50%. The Voisin C6 Laboratoire seems like it's from a steam-punk game. Gabriel Voisin had to stop making aircraft after WWI since there was very little interest and contracts in civilian aviation and since there was no money to be made in military aircraft either after WWI Voisin had to start utilizing his great knowledge in cars instead...
Love this Stuff!! Thanks for posting.. I have built (not bought) a 3DOF motion SIm (2 DOF + traction loss) which I have been having a BLAST in all these old tracks ! Thanks for posting! LOVE THE GPL stuff BTW.. Bought it way back in 1990 somthing.? Back when 8MB graphics cards were just coming out.. Hell Ya!
Yeap I need to get a new PC , so I can get back to AC , I have been away to long . voiturettes cars were popular after the first few after the end of WW1 in the up to 1400 cc classes mainly the class that was raced in the UK between the Wars . Think it was the equivalent of F2 today. GP racing was limited to 3 ltrs and 800 kg off the top of my head I think . We were still a few years away from Mercedes starting to to make a big impact in GP and Sports cars and all the advances those cars and the cars from Auto Union . These cars in the 20's were still closer to road going cars and were driven by wealthy gentlemen drivers still. Negertive lift yes I can imagine lots of scary moments to be had in those early attempts at streamlined car body's with little understanding of aero.there are some classic first hand account from the 30's streamlined racers from Mercedes and Auto Union at the Avus Track in Berlin , were both teams raced in special low drag streamlined cars . Inna track basical consisting of to long straights joined by a banked section at one end and a curve at the other end . Those cars had front end lift at speeds well over 300 kmph basically they had little steering input . Brave drivers back then on public road basted tracks and some Insane race distances in some cases. Thanks for the Video .
Another entertaining & informative video. Definitely (please!!) do the 1938 Donnington circuit with these cars. That is the closest famous circuit to where i live, about an hour away and i use the 1938 track in a mock championship for the AC GPL cars mod 😁
I absolutely love these old cars! Nearly a century old! I'd happily watch a full length race with these cars. Especially a multiplayer race - with a British commentator putting on a period English public school accent! I'm interested to see how the 1930's cars compare. Probably engine braking through the corners and not touching the throttle to avoid wheelspin, but much faster in a straight line.
Certainly in maneuverability the 20's cars beat the 30's cars hands-down. Not only are they less powerful, meaning they can be driven somewhat harder, but their smaller overall package allows them to turn harder than their 30's equivalents. Arguably their biggest weaknesses are that their tyres are slightly narrower than even the 30's cars, and that most of them have a much higher CoG due to most early car design philosophy still being rooted in and derived from the construction techniques of the horse-drawn coaches from the previous century.
Well this wasn't quite what I expected to see. No matter, I hit the "Like" before even starting the first race! The other cars in the 1923 French GP were the Fiat 805, Rolland Pilain A22, and Delage 2LCV. The last of these had a 2-liter V12, and it was this car that inspired Enzo Ferrari to put V12s in his cars when he finally had his own marque. BTW, Enzo Ferrari won the 1923 Circuito di Savio driving an Alfa Romeo RL TF. The Bugatti Type 32 is often referred to as the "Tank", and a number of elements of that shape were carried on in the 1936 Bugatti Type 57 G "Tank", which won the 1936 French GP for sports cars, and the 1937 Le Mans 24 Hours. If the Fiat 805 is the next to be released, that's going to be interesting. It has a bit more power than the others, but the big thing is, from what I can tell, it's 30 km/h faster in the top end than any of the others. The Alfa Romeo P1 did come out in 1923, but didn't race, as in practice for the Italian GP, their driver Ugo Sivocchi, who won that year's Targa Florio, crashed fatally. This resulted in the other 2 team cars being withdrawn. The other drivers who would have raced the P1 were Giuseppe Campari and Antonio Ascari. All these cars, including the Sunbeam, are part of the 2-liter formula laid down in 1922 and continued through the 1925 season. Gotta love that the Voisin doesn't even have a round steering "wheel". You went off the road with both the Bugatti and Voisin at 2 of the same spots. I'm definitely a fan of the crop of cars from the 1937 season. I do wish there was a proper mod for the actual Alfa Romeo 12C-37; what's out there is the 12C-36, which uses the chassis and body of the 8C-35 as a starting point, whereas the 12C-37 was a new car with a further evolution of the V12 engine, enlarged from 4.1 to 4.5 liters, and giving 430 hp compared to 360-370 for the previous car. Of course, aside from that and the Auto Union Type C and Mercedes-Benz W125, I think a good 1937 set should probably have the aforementioned 8C-35 and 12C-36, as well as the Maserati 6C-34 and V8RI, and Bugatti Type 59/50. And yes, those machines are beasts to hold on to. I'm definitely looking forward to what you've got coming after this.
The idea is, if you roll the car, the momentum sends you flying out of the cockpit. No seatbelts - better to be thrown 20-30 feet away from the car than have it roll on top of you and catch fire.
If you are interested in old grand prix cars and the people who created them, I suggest a book called "A-Z of Grand Prix Cars" by David Hodges. It was published about 20 years ago but is very very interesting.
Correction at 32:22 : German cars would have been traditionally white, not silver. There's the well-known story how white became silver in 1934 when they allegedly scraped the white paint off the Mercedes-Benz W25 down to the silver aluminium body panels, because otherwise they would have been heavier than allowed. This story is probably fictional or at least very dramatized, but indeed around this time German cars switched from white to silver. In the 1920's they were still white.
The Mercedes-Benz paint scraping story is fictional. It first appeared in the memoirs of Mercedes-Benz team manager Alfred Neubauer many years later, and he's known for making stories for interesting conversation... In real life, both Mercedes-Benz and Auto Union cars appeared painted silver, right from the start.
Voisin was a french aircraft manufacturer. So the propeller and aerodynamic styling is no surprise. They build some road cars aswell, using aluminum and other lightweight materials. Very uniqe for that time.
Safety features include: Leather cap and jacket, aviator goggles, and a large well-kept mustache.
NCAP rating: _We die like men_ out of _5 Stars_
Fun fact: GPLaps would've died at least 3 times and perhaps killed 1 person had these races been in real life
Totally agree with this comment. You do seem to take liberties with the other "drivers". Clearly if car damage was active you'd have been out of the running. Something I've noticed on several of your "races".
@@pyoung168 You do it instead, chief.
I love reading coach expert comments, they’re so uplifting!
@@pyoung168 It's called Sim racing for a reason.
The future is now old man
Fun fact: If this was real life they would never race at this pace, which is what caused gplaps' virtual demise.
I am an older viewer. I'm 58, but UA-cam is almost all I watch these days. I like the absolute control it gives me over what I watch. I had this video come up in my feed, probably because I am also an avid gamer and watch a lot of video game stuff. I enjoyed the video a lot. Because of that I came over to your channel to see more of what you are about.
I decided to subscribe. I wish you well. I will like and try to comment often as videos post from you. My suspicion is that your chosen field of interest may be too specific to really blow up, but if your desire is to make a living from UA-cam, I hope you succeed.
Usually content providers talk far too much. In this case, your knowledge of the various eccentricities of these cars was not only entertaining, but informative. You also don't sound like an idiot millennial, which is an additional plus to a more mature viewer like myself.
One suggestion: observing the three models in this video made me curious about other examples from this period. Returning to this type of race at a later date when more models are available might be nice. Likewise other eras with different styles of cars, as well.
Cheers.
Hi Sam! Appreciate the kind compliments. I am not trying to make a living at UA-cam. I enjoy racing and experiencing these types of cars, and its from comments like yours and the many others here that help me enjoy and learn about them even more. Some might be discouraged by comments that point out facts that I got wrong or missed, but they are actually very much appreciated!
I hope through my videos I can show more people how awesome racing was and encourage some more sim racers to take a look at these awesome cars and tracks and maybe take a break from the common stuff :)
The comment you replied to got me to subscribe no joke
@@GPLaps You've singlehandedly convinced me to buy assetto corsa because of these videos. Love the info and everything about the videos, really fun to see you drive and talk about these old cars, Keep up the good work, and can't wait to see your next upload!
the only thing that ruins the old racing feeling for modern games is the fact you don't get random mechanical weirdness. :p No driving one handed while trying to re-wire the loom. or having your mechanic hang out the car re-attaching the exhaust.
Imagine something like My Summer Car where you may have to repair your car mid race.. interesting idea!
Former Alfa Romeo mechanic Giulio Ramponi recalled a race (or is it a hillclimb?) in the early-mid 1920s in which he's a riding mechanic to Giuseppe Campari's Alfa. According to him, the bonnet (or hood in American English) came loose, so he had to secure it by reaching out and pinning it down with his arms while Campari drove on!
@@jcgabriel1569 I was very lucky to know an old Maserati Mechanic who worked from the 30's then back with them post war, some of the stories! heck It did not change much from my team working in Poole for Penske we got a car back that was about 80% duct tape. :p
@@Skreezilla I once watched l a footage of the 1936 Vanderbilt Cup race. Tazio Nuvolari won the race, but caught in the footage is his teammate, Antonio Brivio, almost standing in the cockpit, steering with one hand while the other hand is stretched out, reaching for the bonnet (hood) of the car. It had come loose and he's holding it down to prevent it from flying off while he's making his way to the pits to have it secured.
That’s why I’d love to see Pre-War race cars in a game like BeamNG, which has been working on its AI, & now has some Multiplayer abilities. I feel like no other game could simulate the danger of those fragile pre war cars like BeamNG could.
I would literally be horrified driving one of these. Seriously, these are horrifying. You could probably fit 8 of those tires in a modern F1 tire.
Width wise, that would be 10 for the front and about 14 for the rear, but, with about trice the radius.
racing? yea. driving solo on an empty track? I'd do it in a heartbeat.
These mods are great fun, also forgive me if you mentioned in the video already, but the creator has nearly finished a Fiat 805 to join the other 3.
Will it experience supercharger failure for full realism?
Yeah, he mentioned it, though he said "Alfa Romeo" instead of "Fiat", but in any case, that sounds good. That would be 4 of the 6 from that race field. Now, I imagine compiling what will be needed for the Delage will be easier than getting info on the Rolland Pilain.
Shame that it's very hard to get a lot of info on cars this old. Very few of the cars from this time frame survived to this day, and some (if not all) of the surviving specimens may no longer had the same specifications as they initially have. The plans, blueprints and factory technical data were also probably hard to come by (Fiat seems to have destroyed almost everything related to their GP project when they closed down shop). So big thumbs up and cheers to the people behind these cars!
Is there a good Bugatti Type 35 mod out there?
@@bobmcl2406 Just in a few quick searches, I'm really only finding a Type 51 mod, which was an evolution of the Type 35.
The weird wheels tracks on the Voisin had a purpose. The idea was that with such narrow rear tracks, no differential would be needed.
Voisin were accustomed to "-less" solutions, for example they were advocates of valve-less engines. They had such a romantic idea of automobiles !
If Hermann Tilke would do tracks like this, we would actually like him!
ah yes, if only tilke designed literal death traps with houses for runoff and flat out speeds through every single corner with blind crests and such! rather than these boring "safe" tracks. Just don't crash! Easy!
I was just wondering when you'd race some pre-war cars, cheers for this! 👌🏻
If you like pre-war stuff the '37 Auto Union mod on RD is super good too.
Coming back to where I first discovered your channel, it's really interesting how your channel evolved from "someone shared these cool classic cars let's check them out" to the semi-showcase, semi-documentary format you have today.
23:24 German race cars would have been white, it wasn't untill 1934 they switched over to silver.
It could be as early as 1932, when Manfred von Brauchitsch raced at AVUS using a Mercedes Benz SSKL fitted with a bare aluminium aerodynamic bodywork.
@@jcgabriel1569 Imagine driving AVUS with that huge banking in a car with no seatbelts or any kind of safety
@@Logan912 In 1932, the steeply-banked Nordkurve (North Curve) hadn't been built yet, it's just a long, sweeping, flat left turn. They rebuilt the Nordkurve into the infamous "wall of death" when some Olympic games-related buildings were built nearby for the 1936 Olympic Games..
I believe it was a weight issue that caused the cars to not be painted and went away from Germanys national color of white.
@@mikeynanez3038 You're talking about the story put forward about the Mercedes Benz W25 having its white paint stripped off to make it to the weight limit, right before a race, in 1934.
The story is a complete and utter lie.
It only started to exist in Mercedes Benz racing team manager Alfred Neubauer's autobiography many years later and somehow, it stuck. That is despite the fact that there were gaping holes in the story's details, and more importantly, Neubauer's known for " putting some seasoning" to stories, if not outright fabricating new ones, to strike up interesting conversation. In fact, I don't understand why, at times, Mercedes Benz kept on telling the "paint stripping story" as part of their stories regarding the Silver Arrows, despite the fact that it's one of the Neubauer stories that is a complete fabrication.
Watches the 23 Hours of Zolder live stream but still uploads a new video for us, you da man GPLaps.
Been waiting for something like this for ages! I think the scariest part of driving these 20s cars is the braking. You come up to a turn, step on the brake pedal, and go flying into a wall after barely slowing down at all. Engine braking in these things is not for the faint of heart, lol. A great track I've found to race them is Donnington 1938 (ua-cam.com/video/0U1ffmp2I5s/v-deo.html).
Hope you get to showcase more of Fat-Alfie's tracks. The Deutchlandring might just be my favorite, purely because of its history and just how pretty it is.
Yeah, I quite enjoy the D-Ring as well. Apart from the aesthetics, you get that feeling you're really going somewhere, while still generally feeling like you know where you are. And it has 3 clear sectors that differ notably from one another: 1) ultra-high-speed, 2) meandering through the forest still at a pretty good clip, 3) the hill climb. And yes, that final section of switchbacks was used as an actual hillclimb in its own right.
@@Villoresi Exactly. I suppose road courses have that feeling of going somewhere that most purpose-built tracks just lack.
Nailing that second sector in an old car almost feels like threading a needle, and that long left turn by the big hotel is awesome when you're on the limit of grip and manage to keep your foot down.
Don't know if you're into that, but I've had tons of fun lapping the RedBull X2010 around it. It feels more like playing Trackmania with how much grip you have, and you'll be doing 400+km/h through some parts of the track. If you're up for it, I challenge you to put in a sub-2min lap!
I just tried them out. The brakes are more for positioning the car than for actual braking. but still, the car slows down a bit. Couragely heel and toe punching the gas while downshifting makes it an interesting additional option for reducing speed a bit more. xD
That circuit is gorgeous.
"Its not racing, it's more just seeing who can get to the finish line first" well... I'm no quite sure but isn't that racing?
I imagine drivers sought to avoid any kind of close "side by side" racing and would just let people by if they got close enough just to not risk breaking the car....or dying.
@@Dermaa To finish first, first, you must finish.
And in one piece
@@IndyGuest gentlemen's agreement GIVE HIM A WAVE OLD BOY!...WHILE HE PASSES"
Well, the emphasis here is on "can"
I like the interesting way the Bugatti has its exhaust lined up - if you short-shift it, the engine burns your 'nads off. And that Voisin looks quite a bit like a larger Morgan Three-Wheeler - if you squint your eyes a bit.
That Fonteny circuit looks like the result of what would happen if the Nordschleife and classic Spa had a baby. Every serious sim-racer worth his or her salt should have this in their Assetto collection.
i dont know why youtube decided to recommend me this video but im glad it did was highly entertaining
Assetto Corsa is certainly an eye-opening sim racer due to the sheer depth of its modding community; 1920's grand Prix racers, student project formula machines, Soviet era touring cars, and even the most mundane of production models. Name it, and Assetto Corsa likely has it in some capacity.
You could really make a historical grid for these cars as everyone raced their national colors in those days. It wouldn’t be hard, just gotta get the right number.
"Hello, my name is Bob, and I am addicted to vintage mods for Assetto Corsa...." 😆 . Seriously, this video was great, love the course and the cars. Thanks for pointing the way to many lost hours!
Hi, Bob.
I always wondered, why that decade was called the "Golden 20's". Well, now I know!
Just wished I had come across your channel far earlier. Good thing is, there's no more questioning about what to do in times of limited social contacts.
Thanks for entertaining us that brilliantly!
Because your legs would end up golden brown by the end of the races?
@@coffeeguyd French waffles
Sunbeam was a British car company which struggled to pay back money it borrowed to go racing and was absorbed into the Rootes Group in 1934. To know where it went from there would be to delve into the mire of the UK Auto Industry but to cut a very long story short you could still get Sunbeams up until the early 80's with the Chrysler then Talbot Sunbeam which won the World Rally Championship in 1981. They capitalised on that sporting success by closing the factory and discontinuing the model. Nothing called Sunbeam has been made since
Fonteny is one of those circuits that if you're in the mood is fantastic because it just keeps twisting and winding and never seems to end, but if you're not, it's a real chore to drive...because it just keeps twisting and winding, and never seems to end. 😜
Well I just sat down at my pc and watched this all the way through. I have to admit parts of it were hilarious when you ventured into the scenery at the same places in successive cars. But a very interesting mod and I'm just about to download it and have a go.
A DNF on those cars is death
This is fast becoming one of my favorite UA-cam channels.
I am GRATEFUL that you are putting out more GPL( and Assetto Corsa)content. I found my CD(GPL) last week that I thought I had lost. It's my favorite game and I haven't played in years as I'm a MAC man now. Looks like I'm going to get a console in my advanced years. I was avoiding it. Can't now.
Before I bought a gaming PC earlier this year I ran GPL and Assetto Corsa on my iMac (2017 5k, 3.8 GHz i5, Radeon Pro 580) in Windows 10 using Bootcamp and storing the games on an external USB 3 drive. Performance was quite satsifactory. GPL is a lot of work to set up but the process is well documented.
I don't think you can get mods like these cars and track on the console version of Assetto Corsa.
Love your content! Great commentary. Really enjoyed this one. Keep it up. 👍
Bugatti was thought to create lift, but the main problem was that it was twitchy longitudinally into the corners - indeed, one crashed into the crowd, injuring several spectators. I don't know much about the Voisin, other than it was a semi-monocoque. Sunbeam was based on the 1922 Fiat, and represented the future for the next decade or so (really until the Mercedes and Auto Unions came into GP racing in 1934 the basic layout was the same, albeit continuously improved).
the chap who drove the winning Sunbeam in the French Grand Prix in 1923 was Sir Henry Segrave, the most extraordinary man, who had been both a pilot and an infantry officer in World War 1, being shot down by anti-aircraft fire and seriously injured, and also shot in the shoulder while fighting hand to hand on the ground. Then he went on to drive in Grands Prix, as well as break both both the land and water world speed records, the first man to hold both at once. he died when his speedboat capsized as he broke the water speed record, still in his early 30s.
wow that race in the Sunbeam had me curling in my seat on every pass, what a race, so much fun to watch
:D
I LOVE LOVE LOVE these vintage racing machines! I am so happy to see you making videos in Assetto Corsa, with these wonderful mods. Keep up the great work! Looking forward to your next video.
Just found your channel and these videos are fantastic. I love the time periods you choose to focus on. Thank you.
The car was not backfiring. That was just unburnt fuel igniting in the exhaust system.
A backfire occurs when the fuel / air mixture ignites *before* "the piston reaches top dead centre. The force of the ignition is thus pushing the crankshaft *backwards*. Hence the term" back-fire".
And, yes, it is really bad for the engine.
I love street circuits, this looks super fun
You, sir, live a charmed life. In this French Grand Prix simulation, you avoided three poles, dozens of trees, and a three-car pile-up.
Pre ww2 grand prix racing is so fascinating i wish there were games dedicated to it.
Must have been so much fun being a car builder in those days. (Providing you were rich of course) Constantly trying new things to try and edge out extra speed. These days we have it all figured out.
Nice video! In fact the cornering abilities of the Voisin should be rather limited due to the lack of a differential (a reason why Voisin tried to keep the rear wheels as close as possible). Now the rear wheels were made like that mainly for aerodynamic purposes. However, the Voisin was also one of the very first monocoque designs, so not really a design deadend. It used a wooden frame to nail the structuring aluminium panels the body was made of. And it was also a fairly good training exercice for André Lefevre who is famous for the 2cv. It used many original solutions, such as the propeller mounted at the front in order to collect energy to activate the radiator's pump (instead of blowing the radiator like nowadays), and was made in less than 6 months, unlike the Sunbeams, which teams had more experience from other races. The lack of planning and preparation (especially form the race commity), as rather common in france was the main reason why Bugatti, Delage, Roland Pilain and Voisin were unable to fully test and optimise their cars during the race. The voisin later won a race in Italy, but there isn't much to document this event. All of this doesn't mean the British and italians didn't do a very nice work aswell, as they did, and all i read on this subject depicts them as 'clockwork proved mechanic' with powerfull reliable engines. Anyway, thanks for the vid, maybe i'll consider buying this game...
This makes me want to drive those cars now.
Crazy stuff :D Yeah, the track seems to be in the 60s as you said, the Citroën type H ambulances: this model was built in 1948 (for ex @1:49), the TUB model from the same manufacturer was built in 1939 (@2:06), and the Total Group was founded in 1924 (@2:32), under another French name, the Total brand name only appeared in 1954 - and the logo we see is a mix of the original 1954 logo and the new one which was used from 1955 to 1963. The Esso trademark was created before 1923, but I doubt it was much present in France before the first refinery in 1933 (@2:47). Didn't check the other stuff, it seems fantastic, and those cobbles! Those pilots had a lot of courage.
Awesome video! Love looking into this era of racing. If you are interested in seeing what a pre-WW1 race would look like then pull up Goodwood SpeedWeek S.F. Edge Trophy, they've got a bunch of historics from around 1909 racing.
I say, this is right up my alley.
You deserve soooo many more Subs than you currently have. Great content, an e-racer interested in history for a change!
Kudos and TX!
Thanks for my best sim-Christmas present - YT just recommended me this, and I was not exactly dissapointed! :-)
I am a fan on spotting faults in movies.. Here is a few for starters: Citoen cammionette with that fluted aluminum body sheeting and a Unimog truck on the field in 1923...
Awesome video. Awesome content. Really nice to see people giving love to vintage cars like this ones in AC. I'm now subscribed!
A quick one about the different types of car, quite often auto manufacturers only produced a rolling unit (engine and chassis) and buyers were tasked with putting bodies on their cars, this meant that a lot of cars were taken to coachbuilders to be finished. Different body shapes on the same car were still quite common coming into the 1920s. I cannot find if this was the case with the Sunbeam, Voisin or the Bugatti, but other prewar race cars certainly have been this as the case.
Man this was cool. I was smiling the whole video! Thanks for sharing!
Wonderful! Great to keep the racing history available to all the young people out there today!
Wow that is amazing! I'll definitely take a look at that👍
Wow very intresting and very very fun. I really do hope it makes into the online series of auto racing. I am pretty sure that even the new young guys will absolutely love it, even I loved it. Really looking forward to this one. What a great fun. Obviously some of the great fun comes from dying a couple of times during the race 😂 and still be alive. 🏎️
Honestly love this so much. My only complaint is I don't have the set up to race these myself! Always been the same watching your channel. Keep it up!
Awesome
The Bugatti sheet metal reminds me of the Hall's Chaparrals!
a joy to watch
Hi GP, thanks for this awesome video! It was really fun to watch and so interesting! I'm so happy to have come across your channel, I play ACC to satisfy my need for modern racing and I'm more intrigued in using AC for this older type of racing, so I'll definitely try these mods. I might even try GP Legends again, thanks to you! Anyway, love your great content!!
Looks like a ton of fun. They sound great too. Love your commentary.
Great racing. I love to setup vintage races. It takes hours until all opponents are well balanced and tested. But then it's great fun.
Wonderful film! Great old cars on a beautiful track/road. I'll have to look out for the mod. I really like the TT circuit available for rF2 and this is also a beautiful place to drive. The cars look very good and interesting to drive on their bicycle tyres and weak brakes. Different and very entertaining. Thanks.
I love cars from this era cool to see vids of this keep up the vids
Fantastic stuff from one of the most interesting eras of GP racing!
The make of the tires were quite different in that time period as well, which influenced greatly the steering and the handling overall.
Really loved this
This looks ace, I think I’ll be heading over to grab these mods before long 👍👍👍
These cars are very worth your time, especially now that the grid is complete. The only downside to these cars is the lack of contemporaneous circuits to race them on. Thankfully though anything prior to the late 70's is lax enough in safety features and early enough in advertisement branding that generally those tracks won't be too immersion breaking.
Dude I love this type of content.
I now want Assetto Corsa
It seems Bugatti were ahead of the time with its Type 32 model. They began paying attention to aerodynamics in order to minimize drag decades before racing cars were shaped from an aerodynamic starting point. I read that the Bugatti Type 32 managed a 180km/h top speed in the actual 1923 French GP - which is impressive considering it was powered by a small engine producing merely 90hp - which actually wasn't much even by early 1920's standards. The Fiat 805/405 in this very race had a 130hp engine and the winning Sunbeam had around 115hp.
Perhaps it's best to think in percentage advantage and not number of horsepower. The Fiat 805/405 had 40hp more than the Bugatti Type 32 but percentage-wise it's a 45% power increase, yes almost 50%.
The Voisin C6 Laboratoire seems like it's from a steam-punk game. Gabriel Voisin had to stop making aircraft after WWI since there was very little interest and contracts in civilian aviation and since there was no money to be made in military aircraft either after WWI Voisin had to start utilizing his great knowledge in cars instead...
i love this,thanks for the mod :)
Love this Stuff!! Thanks for posting.. I have built (not bought) a 3DOF motion SIm (2 DOF + traction loss) which I have been having a BLAST in all these old tracks ! Thanks for posting! LOVE THE GPL stuff BTW.. Bought it way back in 1990 somthing.? Back when 8MB graphics cards were just coming out.. Hell Ya!
Yeap I need to get a new PC , so I can get back to AC , I have been away to long . voiturettes cars were popular after the first few after the end of WW1 in the up to 1400 cc classes mainly the class that was raced in the UK between the Wars . Think it was the equivalent of F2 today.
GP racing was limited to 3 ltrs and 800 kg off the top of my head I think . We were still a few years away from Mercedes starting to to make a big impact in GP and Sports cars and all the advances those cars and the cars from Auto Union .
These cars in the 20's were still closer to road going cars and were driven by wealthy gentlemen drivers still.
Negertive lift yes I can imagine lots of scary moments to be had in those early attempts at streamlined car body's with little understanding of aero.there are some classic first hand account from the 30's streamlined racers from Mercedes and Auto Union at the Avus Track in Berlin , were both teams raced in special low drag streamlined cars .
Inna track basical consisting of to long straights joined by a banked section at one end and a curve at the other end .
Those cars had front end lift at speeds well over 300 kmph basically they had little steering input .
Brave drivers back then on public road basted tracks and some Insane race distances in some cases.
Thanks for the Video .
Another entertaining & informative video. Definitely (please!!) do the 1938 Donnington circuit with these cars. That is the closest famous circuit to where i live, about an hour away and i use the 1938 track in a mock championship for the AC GPL cars mod 😁
I absolutely love these old cars! Nearly a century old! I'd happily watch a full length race with these cars.
Especially a multiplayer race - with a British commentator putting on a period English public school accent!
I'm interested to see how the 1930's cars compare. Probably engine braking through the corners and not touching the throttle to avoid wheelspin, but much faster in a straight line.
Certainly in maneuverability the 20's cars beat the 30's cars hands-down. Not only are they less powerful, meaning they can be driven somewhat harder, but their smaller overall package allows them to turn harder than their 30's equivalents.
Arguably their biggest weaknesses are that their tyres are slightly narrower than even the 30's cars, and that most of them have a much higher CoG due to most early car design philosophy still being rooted in and derived from the construction techniques of the horse-drawn coaches from the previous century.
If we can get a Community Race going. I am in
me too =)
There's no place called Fonteny, but I checked for Fontenay in maps. Fontenay-Trésigny looks the most likely to match. Southeast of Paris
Fun fact: The propeller on the Voisin C6 is the water pump.
it's more of a suggestion wheel than steering wheel on these cars.
Amazing! Thanks for posting this!!
now this is GPLAPS
back firing thru the carb and the dizzy in the cockpit... its too good
This is EPIC. Subscribed.
Must be fun driving way faster than you probably should in one of those, all the whilst having your feet cooked by the exhaust manifold.
Well this wasn't quite what I expected to see. No matter, I hit the "Like" before even starting the first race!
The other cars in the 1923 French GP were the Fiat 805, Rolland Pilain A22, and Delage 2LCV. The last of these had a 2-liter V12, and it was this car that inspired Enzo Ferrari to put V12s in his cars when he finally had his own marque. BTW, Enzo Ferrari won the 1923 Circuito di Savio driving an Alfa Romeo RL TF.
The Bugatti Type 32 is often referred to as the "Tank", and a number of elements of that shape were carried on in the 1936 Bugatti Type 57 G "Tank", which won the 1936 French GP for sports cars, and the 1937 Le Mans 24 Hours.
If the Fiat 805 is the next to be released, that's going to be interesting. It has a bit more power than the others, but the big thing is, from what I can tell, it's 30 km/h faster in the top end than any of the others.
The Alfa Romeo P1 did come out in 1923, but didn't race, as in practice for the Italian GP, their driver Ugo Sivocchi, who won that year's Targa Florio, crashed fatally. This resulted in the other 2 team cars being withdrawn. The other drivers who would have raced the P1 were Giuseppe Campari and Antonio Ascari.
All these cars, including the Sunbeam, are part of the 2-liter formula laid down in 1922 and continued through the 1925 season.
Gotta love that the Voisin doesn't even have a round steering "wheel".
You went off the road with both the Bugatti and Voisin at 2 of the same spots.
I'm definitely a fan of the crop of cars from the 1937 season. I do wish there was a proper mod for the actual Alfa Romeo 12C-37; what's out there is the 12C-36, which uses the chassis and body of the 8C-35 as a starting point, whereas the 12C-37 was a new car with a further evolution of the V12 engine, enlarged from 4.1 to 4.5 liters, and giving 430 hp compared to 360-370 for the previous car.
Of course, aside from that and the Auto Union Type C and Mercedes-Benz W125, I think a good 1937 set should probably have the aforementioned 8C-35 and 12C-36, as well as the Maserati 6C-34 and V8RI, and Bugatti Type 59/50.
And yes, those machines are beasts to hold on to.
I'm definitely looking forward to what you've got coming after this.
I really want a mod for Grand Prix Legend which add grand prix from '20 & '30.
THE 37 MOD FOR GPL WILL BE OUT SOONISH
the bugatti is great fun in VR- you see this dark cavity around your feet with mysterious junk and then BRAPAPAPAP
I think you should take these cars to the Indianapolis 500 (earliest version you can find) That would be terrifying! 😀
Good God. Great stuff and great detail. I gotta get GPL loaded back up one of these days.
Some hilariously good action there. Nice driving!
Absolutely unique!
Excellent, really nice to see such different race cars, they do look fun!😀
Nice. letting your head be the highest point of the car seems completely safe 🤣
The idea is, if you roll the car, the momentum sends you flying out of the cockpit. No seatbelts - better to be thrown 20-30 feet away from the car than have it roll on top of you and catch fire.
I wish regulations were a bit more lenient nowadays, so you could get crazy differences in the cars appearance like you did back in the day
i guess these two types of cars shape were mixed to make the aerodynamic modern one
If you are interested in old grand prix cars and the people who created them, I suggest a book called "A-Z of Grand Prix Cars" by David Hodges. It was published about 20 years ago but is very very interesting.
that Unimog and Citroën HY Ambulance are way to modern.. :)
The c6 is one of my favourite cars
Correction at 32:22 : German cars would have been traditionally white, not silver. There's the well-known story how white became silver in 1934 when they allegedly scraped the white paint off the Mercedes-Benz W25 down to the silver aluminium body panels, because otherwise they would have been heavier than allowed. This story is probably fictional or at least very dramatized, but indeed around this time German cars switched from white to silver. In the 1920's they were still white.
To this day BMW often prefer to race in white, while Mercedes-Benz prefer silver.
The Mercedes-Benz paint scraping story is fictional. It first appeared in the memoirs of Mercedes-Benz team manager Alfred Neubauer many years later, and he's known for making stories for interesting conversation...
In real life, both Mercedes-Benz and Auto Union cars appeared painted silver, right from the start.
22:17 Epic overtake lmao kekw
Thanks!
Voisin was a french aircraft manufacturer. So the propeller and aerodynamic styling is no surprise. They build some road cars aswell, using aluminum and other lightweight materials. Very uniqe for that time.