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My very narcissistic mother died 8 years ago and my oldest sister has stepped into her shoes (well, she was actually her lifelong understudy). Recently I reached out via letter to this estranged sister and spoke of my becoming a Christian (formerly catholic) and she wrote a four page long letter berating me. It was akin to a ‘ kiss and a slap’ tactic. She questioned my faith and everything under the sun but couched it in religion (she’s a catholic). My letter wasn’t filled with anything but an attempt to communicate in a kind way. I thought since she estranged herself that she might have softened over the last nine years (i tried to reach out before with no reply). I’ve prayed for wisdom and now realize I’ll love her from afar-unfortunately.
Right! Not how it works and also there is so much around that like misdefining “forgiveness,” being accused of being “bitter” or putting the cart before the horse or “coercive forgiveness” and so on. I had to go pore over scripture for myself and wow was it an eye opener. Many times we are literally just being falsely accused by both the abuser AND the ignorant religious masses. Now I see it more like they just don’t know what they’re even talking about. They didn’t ever study it. They just all jumped on some religious bandwagon and called it “Gospel.” Swallowed it all hook, line and sinker without a second thought.
Right. The whole responsibility of a conflict is thrust upon your shoulders. Last time I checked, a conflict takes at least two people. So how it’s only one person’s fault?
They will preach kindness, but not practice it. They will fake gentleness through quiet, covert, abuse, and call it compassion because it was quiet. They demand everyone punish those who offend them. If you complain about abuse, they will preach forgiveness. They don’t want to hear your complaints because there truly is no compassion or empathy in them.
Well described. Exactly what I go through with my mother. She's such a devotee in congregations but behaves like a religious woman who has been gravely wronged at home spewing "righteous practices" that I failed at doing just like the ones you mentioned here . Also Jerry is too good at what he has said in this video. Hit the nail on the head 🌻
Many don’t practice what they ‘Preach’. They pray only when it serves them. Projection is a given. Those in my family can be described as Emergency Room Christians. 😂
💯 God to most narcissist is just someone that allows them to behave however and will love them and give them things regardless just like how narcissist view people. I've seen the most wicked things from religious ppl
The cult I grew up surrounded by were mostly Fire insurance salesmen. One pastor, to my recollection, who was educated as a counselor at Asbury College, spoke from the Holy Spirit.
My "Christian" narcissist parent's family dynamic was horrible. They would weaponize the Bible against me. As a teen, I started bringing Bible verses back to them in exchange. "Parents to not provoke your children to wrath" was one. Boy, did they hate it when I used the Bible to highlight their bad behavior! Forgiveness does not require reconciliation.
You are very smart 😂. 2 weeks ago I realized my Sister and mum is completely f***** up in their heads...I understand I was family scapegoat . Gone no contact . My family was full of narcissistic abuse, toxic religion powerabuse. My mum did not treat me as a child ,nor as a person . But an object. She was dissapointed when I was 4- 5 that I wasnt Christ...She was a sadist and a demon dr Jekyll mr Hyde. Dad was a narcissist. But in light of her he was a friend. God is Holy. Nothing was holy to mum. ...
@Glowie34765 Thank you !🕊🧠🔥Yes Jesus is King. Recovery is a process! I hope you are healing and protect yourself and your boundaries well. Recovery is a journey 🦋
Paraphased- 'brothers, why do you concern yourselves with the splinter in the eye of your brother, pluck first the rafter from your own eye and you will see clear to help your brother' comes to mind.
@@bonnielewin8520Well put, Bonnie. Thank you. We don't have to honor what is not honorable. Another way it works is, as Jerry's always saying and it's true, do not try to understand these "people" ( monsters if you ask me) along normal rules cuz this is an abnormal situation and it calls for abnormal rules- exceptions to the rules. Just like they are, only benevolently.
@@sylviagonzales1680 - That’s what can be referred to as hypocritical! 🤦🏾 I was sent to church as a young child while my mother stayed sleeping in bed and fornicating.
Ephesians 6:4 “Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.” My mom once kicked me out of her house because I used this verse in a response to her saying that we had to honor her simply because she was our mother. I didn’t even know what exasperated meant, but I knew she was doing it. Most versions use provoke to anger now. That makes a lot of sense.
It's interesting how I only heard the "honor/obey your parents" parts of the religion growing up but never the "love, befriend, honor, protect your children".
My abuser constantly used " If you don't forgive others GOD will not forgive you". I have since learned that forgiveness is not about letting someone harm me over and over again. That is just letting your self be abused. ❤ God loves his children.
Exactly! This has been the hardest one for me as well. Especially since the Bible says that you have to forgive 7 times 70. I used to think that meant that even if they keep hurting you, you have to forgive. I have been on this journey for at least 2 years probably longer, and just now at 36 years old finally heard what that verse is actually saying. It’s actually saying that if you ruminate about it, then you have to forgive in your thoughts or at least say that you are done thinking about it. Where has that been my whole life? It doesn’t mean that you have to keep taking abuse, which is what so many people think it means. So many people have left the church and it really is a tragedy. Satan knows what He’s doing.
@@sheilabest3652oh, wow. I had to learn that one the hard way too. Forgiveness means loving from a distance. I no longer want revenge and I want them to have a good life. I just sadly can’t be part of it because I can no longer take the pain. 💯 %
@@annaburns2865 I wonder if Satan isn't really the duality of each of us, determined by the free will choices we make. Maybe we really are the devils, it walks within each of us!
This was me. They gave me an exorcism. Today as a 33 year old, my brain is mush. I can't talk to people anymore without feeling a need to explain why I am so awkward and stuff and I know that is weird to people in itself. I've become so isolated. I don't believe in myself and always going through spiritual battles, with intense feeling of shame and guilt just for being human. Even though I am aware I feel like its just hyper awareness and cant think about anything else. All day every day.
Oho, yeah. The first time _my_ mom tried to exorcise a demon outta me, I thought it was hilarious in hindsight. She was _that_ spooked by my anger, that she saw it as *inhuman* and a spiritual attack. Which is... nuts.
You deserve love . Unconditional love. Heal inner child by Kenneth Lock, evolve church talks about trauma of lack of love by church, parents. Really recommend. Also you seem to have cptds, reactive stress, but its not your fault. Your victim of Spiritual abuse narcissism. Jesus came for life of abundance, its the thief that only come to steal, kill and destroy. John 10:10. I had heart surgery after toxic stress. I dissociated a lot from sadism snd abuse. But worship music & Td Jakes & Don Johnson & Sarah Jakes Roberts sermons give me empowerment opposite my pains voice.." I did not know I was me ", " God is undoing the damage " & " Be crazy like a fox" really speak life in dead situations....Shame and guilt is not your authentic self. Maybe therapy of attachment heal betrayal of your inner child ? You deserve love as an adult❤
Thank you for brilliant observations and excellent advice. I have experienced it almost all with religious narcissists in my family and my church. Religious narcissists are the most deadly because they are breaking the spirits of vulnerable people both children and adults and in that way crippling the victims spiritual life which is the most profound source of love, joy, truth , peace and meaning.
It has the same sort of dynamic as domestic violence which sets it apart from regular violence. It's particularly damaging because the violence is coming from a source that you should be able to, logically and socially, to expect the best Goodwill from, but you get the worst treatment instead. IT's very very disorienting and there's no safe place to go after a while.
Raised catholic. I had a Mormon friend as a child I really liked and my parents often brought up her family being Mormon as a negative. I was invited to a sleep over but wasn’t allowed to spend the night. Then after that I wasn’t allowed to hang out with her again. They did that a lot to me and I had a lot of problems as I got older making friends. I still have a lot of anger towards my parents for this and at the negative way Catholicism f’d up my life
Finally someone has made a video about the destructive effects of christian fundamentalism and its use of power to control. I was traumatized by my sick narco fundamentalist evangelical parents who avoided responsibility by claiming to be such pious christians. We need more information on this because we are inundated by religious nuts who want to control our lives and bodies. It took me decades to find resources on how religious trauma damages innocent lives. Thank you, Jerry!
There is now new diagnose in USA religious trauma. I feel similar against much church. I contacted governmemt departement of protect children from emotional and Spiritual abuse by childs perspectives and listen to childs experience. Also mailed someone in court a reflection of madness to help be able support how to prevent madness of narcissistic abuse and gaslighting manipulation of responsibility to maze of con and complex trauma. Health care have little or no understanding of emotional abuse within church. I was assaulted try to deal w root trauma of " sinner , powerless " exoloit ... Had me report 2 narcissistic men when after 7 years attacked by madness in church - had report to Police and seek calming pills at psychiatric acute. Also Celebrate Recovery I also reported : Had trauma response . Brainwash is not authenticity and free will and boundaries. ..Jesus is standing outside of most churches. ..Sanity & sobriety. Protect kids and people ... Heal inner child by Kenneth Lock, Evolve church adress Spiritual neglect and emotional abuse by unloving parents ...
I was raised and expected to be a lifelong Christian. But as an adult, I found my own spirituality. My family was aghast. My narc stepmom, when I complained about the summer heat, would quip "it's going to be hotter in Hell!" She also was cruel and insulting to everyone she met, but she would brag, "I KNOW where I'm going when I die" (meaning heaven) 🙄
Your stepmom sounds a lot like my mother. They think they only have to "believe in Jesus" in order to go to heaven, like they just have to say it, like it's a spell or something. I say: then start behaving like it. You will naturally change your behavior if you truly and deeply believe in something. Believing in Jesus means aligning your behavior with his teachings. But you can't tell a narcissist that. They want to keep on behaving however they want and then have Jesus 'save them' at the end.
Oh man, so sorry to hear that! My Catholic narc mother despised all jews (we lived in a neighborhood of doctors and lawyers and my Jewish friends were never allowed over) and on 9/11 my narc MIL responded to my tears by the very same words..."I know where I'm going..." She died in February and I'm pretty sure she isn't where she thought she'd be.😏
My late mother was a religious covert narc. Not only did she shove Catholicism down my throat at age 7 to learn prayers by heart because I was told I was bad and needed a savior (I could not grasp the concept of death and was now terrified), I was forced to attend catechism every Saturday morning, then church on Sunday. All this after five long days of school during the week...There was never any time off from someone telling me what to do or think. Later, she taught catechism for 15 years, and never let me forget it, including having my dad call me across state lines to threaten me if I didn't call back every week (this was when I was in my 50s). This is only the tip of the iceberg. There was no rest for me until she was laid to rest last year; I did not attend her funeral. I'm 66. I learned so much from you, Jerry; I wish I had discovered your work many years ago....It set me free...
My Mom always used God/religion as a cruel weapon. For instance, "if you do something wrong, and I don't know about it, God will tell me and your punishment will be even worse!" Or bad children will never be raptured.
@@Purrfect_1 my parents were never religious, yet they always said stuff to me like “God will never forgive you for this”, or “Honor your Father and Mother”. Ironically I’m the one who goes to church on Sundays and they don’t lol and they even try and use that against me, saying stuff like “we don’t know why you bother going to Church if look at how you are.” They say that because I don’t do what they say 😂
Yes I relate ! My mom still has dreams about snakes which she said are demons and they are after me ! I asked her did God reveal these dreams were for me or maybe something regarding her? I have 2 younger brothers I am the oldest with no childhood, I was the mommy had to take that role at age 4 . Yes age 4! I am now 64 and my covert mom still does this to keep me in constant fear! I’ve set boundaries and in my conversations with her she’ll try to throw that snake thing in there and I tell her I will hang up , and I do! I’m exhausted going thru all this drama since I was a little girl ! She says God reveals these things to her in dreams although I’m not in the dreams she just does this crap!!
@@terrimoore8962 It took for me to finally breathe is the day she finally died, I was no longer in fear and I could live my life how I wanted to. I tried breaking it up and not talk to her, but she ended up calling the police on me to do a welfare check on me, and it wouldn’t end until I spoke to her. She was the craziest person I ever knew, and she knew how to get away with it and make me look like the crazy one!
This is 💯 my mom. She’s a codependent, religious covert narc enabler, and my dad is an overt narcissist. I have three siblings, and of course one of them has grown up to be an overt narcissist herself. Mom blames my sister’s behavior on the “devil” or on her lack of religion-she’s never held accountable for her own actions, and of course my parents are oblivious to the fact that we were raised in a dysfunctional household. I could go on and on about the hypocrisy of my suffocating catholic upbringing. 😣 I’m now a mom to two young boys, and my husband and I are raising them to be open minded, empathetic, and thoughtful people-WITHOUT religion.
I’m adopted if I didnt wanna go to church 6 days a week mom would threaten to send me back. Also when the church peers laughed at “ me not having a real mom” she did nothing
I needed to see this video I grew up with a father exactly like this. I had no control over anything not even my own thoughts he had me over medicated for adhd 60mg extended release. Try having holy water thrown on you at 2 am as you get thrown around the house by a 300lb man no one to help
This was my life growing up. My mother is deeply religious, and I call her codependent on Jesus. My father used to lead music at churches. We were at church every time the door was open. My brother didn't have to do all the church things I did -- he got special treatment because he was difficult to deal with. My mother wanted to live through me, and I had to do everything available for my age group. That pressure of being the music minister's child made things worse. I was expected to perform and make them look good. My anxiety was so terrible that I often screwed up on stage and embarrassed myself. I hated it. I couldn't say no. I still carry deep shame from those times, decades ago, but I am trying to work through it in counseling. On the outside we were a perfect, put-together family. Pillars of the community. Behind closed doors, it was the total opposite. This religious abuse is the reason today that I no longer call myself a Christian or have any faith at all. Nothing felt real or personal to me. I was doing it to make people happy and not disappointed. Seeing how my mother and father put on fronts every Sunday and on Wednesday night and then behaved like demons the rest of the week turned me off of any sort of religion. The hypocrisy and double standards were disgusting. If my family are going to heaven, then I don't want to be there with them. I can't imagine spending an eternity with such fake, horrible people knowing that they were forgiven when they weren't sorry for being cruel and abusive and made no attempts to stop. Thank you for this video, Jerry. It is entirely relevant to my existence.
My thoughts exactly, if my “family” goes to heaven, I don’t want to be there. Spending eternity anywhere those unrepentant cruel monsters end up would be a hell for me. I can no longer believe in God the way I once tried to do. What kind of God allows this? So many times I prayed for help as a child and just silence…sometimes the abuse got worse. Cruel beasts they are, if my “mother” wasn’t psychologically or physically abusing me, she was neglecting or ignoring me. I believe this is done strategically to let you know you are alone with the abuse, no one cares and no one is coming to save you. “See, not even God cares how I treat you.” That beast still sits with the Bible daily and tries to present as a soft gentle Christian but she’s really just a demon in human form.
@@kjsstudent I am terribly sorry you experienced that misery too. While I'm trying to process everything that happened, I come back to thinking about how a "loving" and "just" god could allow such insidious abuse to happen to innocent children. Why didn't he answer my prayers? Why was there always silence and no divine intervention to get HIS PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD AND KIND BECAUSE THEIR HOLY BOOK SAYS TO to stop hurting me? If god is watching me all the time and knows everything about me and is omni-everything, why can't god see that I'm hurting, that I have no recourse, and that I can't leave because I'm a teenager? Why won't he help me? I trusted him. But MuH FrEe wiLL How about no? That's not surprising at all you can't believe in god the way you used to. Everything we were taught makes zero sense when it's held up to scrutiny. I could rant about this for hours. Just know that I extend my deepest sympathies to you and hope that you find your path in life. Best wishes to you on your healing journey.
Your parents have God all wrong. And without their true repentance & an actual relationship with Jesus they won’t be in heaven. Passages like Matthew 7:21-23 & Matthew 18:6 help to make this clear. Can I encourage you to read the Bible for yourselves & ask God to show you who He really is? As I’ve done that I’ve been very surprised as to how much false teaching has been perpetuated and taken as true by the Church over the centuries. The Bible itself warns us over & over about it. God bless you guys. I hope you find Him as He really is. 🙏🏻
This is the reason I'm an Atheist and thankfully never been religiously abused by anyone. I have on the other hand heard of plenty of horrible stories of plenty of people especially women be abused by religious orders by mostly men, pastors and some enabling women.
whew this so on point for me. I absolutely refuse christianity after living through this kind childhood. you can’t convince me there is a god based on his congregation’s behavior
completely agreed. after seeing how self riteous and confident in her christian beliefs my nmom was even after all the cruel bullshit she put us through??? i was like yeah this is just opium for narcissists.
When I saw the title of this video I had to take a deep breath and say "Hoo, boy!" before I dived in. I got the narcissistic treatment in a triple (or quadruple) whammy. Both my parents are narcissistic to various degrees, both are fundamentalist evangelical Christians and both are very conservative politically. And I'm gay. So, you can just imagine how that's gone over the last 30-40 years. I'm now 56, and I personally feel like my life's potential has largely been ruined, and I'm just trying to salvage what I can before I get too old. And, yes, my mother weaponizes her Christianity all the time in her attempts to manipulate me. I'm not anti-religious at all. In fact, I'm quite spiritual really but more in an Eastern philosophical way, with an interest in Buddhism mainly.
I'm agnostic and conservative politically. I know your pain about age...I'm 66, though look at it this way....Many from my childhood are no longer around, so like you, I am making the most of what I have left.
I really feel for you. I too was brought up in a fundamentalist Christian family. I am 69 and feel that in many ways it is too late to make up for the damage done. I also turned to Buddhism about 10 years ago, and it has been a tremendous healing force in my life.
I too am gay and have experienced great loss of life from my families narc abuses . I soo have empathy for you as I feel the exact same way . I lost way too much time and this part of my life I call “recovery” . Just know you are still here and live like it’s last day ! I find myself truly living out loud and don’t have time for any negativity or could care less of others opinions. I wasted a lifetime with a family who could care less what I think or even know me . Know you are not alone.
This is a nutshell of my childhood. You hit every point (including the multiple exorcisms) I could never do Christianity "right" according to my mother, I was always full of demons and going to hell. So I concluded Christianity was not for me. I am now a healthy and well adjusted Pagan.
May everyone who desires faith have their faith unimpacted by this abuse, may those who don't desire faith have the freedom to live their life free of it 🙏
my dad was literally an outspoken atheist until i broke out of the scapegoat role. now suddenly he's going to christian church and "praying for me" and "talking to god" after spending my whole childhood telling me how ridiculous he found christianity. i came out as trans and he looked for years to find a scientific reason to "break me out" to no avail, now he's changed his strategy to spirituality 7 years later after 4 years of pseudoscience didn't work. i can't take anything he says seriously anymore. he literally only believes whatever he thinks will keep me most reliant on him.
Being trans is not some kind of "grave sin" if fact I have deep compassion for those who are gay or trans and I truly what I believe is a revelation from God about how some of considered "worst" people, are actually the most loved by God. We're not saved by what we do. CHRIST payed for it all and i being the worst of sinners, (way worse than you) have been saved forever and repent means to change your mind. No one can "turn away" from sin.... we believe and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and that's it.... "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and you believe that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. I LOVE YOU SO MUCH 🙏 😏
Thank you, Jerry Wise, for explaining my mother's religiosity and what effect it had on the 4 year old that God made wrong. I'm 71. It's been my search for many years to find answers. It's made me stronger than she could ever know. I liked your explanation. It makes so much sense. Finally. Colleen
The evil narcissistic parent favorite scripture is, "honor thy mother and father." She would always use this to manipulate and control, and it was constantly thrown in my face.
Jerry, I'd like this video to be translated in many languages (by professional translators) and then sent to all Pastoral Councils of every branch of Christianity. This topic goes far beyond the narcissistic abuse we went through inside our families.. And yet, Christian churches don't speak enough about it. [ Italy here. English grammar not here, I apologize for any possible mistake ] *Thank you so much Jerry*
@@pennyjackson1699 100% . However, we Christians bring ( _should bring_ ) an *inherent core message* which is ( _should be_ ) structurally and specifically against that weaponization...
I was just hoovered and told we should forgive and move with the unity of God 😂😂😂 They can miss me with that BS because I don't even believe we serve the same one .
That is both my parents and every flying monkey they have directly or indirectly brought against me. I hope to be free soon so i can breathe and live in peace.
My mother's favorite weapon of choice is using scriptures as her way of stabbing me when I do or say something she doesn't like. She's queen of manipulation wrapped up in a guilt trip. Truly hurtful!
Thank you Jerry. I have never heard this type of narcissistic abuse explained so well. My maternal grandmother’s family had a multi generational history of toxic Catholicism, that was steeped in fear, superstition, martyrdom and control. Thanks for validating my experience as well as pointing out more tools and a way towards individuality.
I still have a strong feeling of anxiety and anger if a priest or a nun comes across me in the street, although I have not been practising Catholicism for 11 years.
I think those people who preach and show everyone their superiority in religion and moral things, but don't really practice what they say, are called Pharisees.
When a narcissistic / controlling parent says “honor your father and mother” what they mean is “obey your parents” as if you are still a child. That kind of convenient twisting of scripture in their favor is to be expected. Somehow scripture always seems to make them right
Religion traumatized me. I spent days walking around wondering if I have to murder my children for god while being told to turn the cheek. The way it was used only further damaged me. My parents converted midway-through my childhood to Buddhism which didn’t change anything. Nowadays I am simply being told I am full of hate. Very hurtful to label others emotions or perceptions that way, especially as a child.
This is exactly what my narcissist MIL does. She’s seen as a spiritual leader in her circle of family and friends so it’s impossible for us to respectfully disagree with her without all her flying monkeys condemning us to hell. Once my brother in law, the biggest flying monkey of them all, actually said he would throw me and my husband a feast like the prodigal son received if we would set aside our boundaries and visit his mom.
As a Christian, I have wondered if certain denominations are more likely to create or appeal to narcissists than others. Independent Fundamental Baptists for instance seem to always be angry, sarcastic and are legalistic against all sorts of harmless things and try to get you to feel guilty for enjoying them. They often have odd beliefs no one else has. They will often try to expose other decent pastors. And they often act as though they are the only true Christians around. I notice most of their preachers preach in a similar style. I have wondered how many of them are actually narcissists based on their beliefs and behaviors.
I grew up Southern Baptist, which is probably one of the worst for shoving everything down your throat and guilt tripping you that you're a horrible sinner in dire need of forgiveness when in reality you're a human being who made a mistake. Rarely do I hear about a Methodist or a Presbyterian that's so strict and rigid, though I know they must be out there of course, but Baptists are another animal.
Yup, fundamentalist christians also known as evangelicals. When any religion purports to have the absolute truth and tells their followers to convert everyone else to their beliefs, it is a danger to other citizens who don’t want that religion forced upon them.
Calvinism is another one I have seen spiritual arrogance and a tendency to see themselves as elite (theelect) and tend to view themselves as right all the time even on things that are not directly stated in scripture.
All that,but in Texas it was also within the Southern Baptist denominations. As a child in '70's I can recall the kinder yet old-school preachers locking horns immediately with that Moral Majority crowd that sided with raygun. White preachers going at each over civil rights equalling to women's rights. As a kid,I heard it,saw it,but didn't understand any significance until later. I miss those 4 Gospel Christian's from back in the day as they knew how to keep it simple.
I was basically blackmailed into Christianity. My mom wanted to force me into the church. So one time, when I was about 5 years old and my dad was out of town, my mom and I went to the local pizza place. My mom said "If you accept Jesus into your heart, I'll get you a calzone." Idk about most people but if you dont genuinely want to do something, its never going to work out. Not only did my mom bring me into the church with calzone blackmail tactics, but also she was the Sunday school teacher, VBS leader, as well as always getting dragged to bible studies on weekends. Not to mention, she was forcing me for awhile to go over teen Christian workbooks and had to keep a reflection journal. All of that on top of regular school, sports year round, and learning musical instruments. It shouldn't have been a shock to them that by the time I was 16, I was very ready to leave the church. To this day, she still thinks that was a normal thing to do. That sorta mindset is why I dont go on family vacations or eat out with them anymore.
Even at a young age, I'd be told that children can go to hell and that lying is a sin. How could any god be so cruel that they'd send kids to hell for innocent natured behaviour, it never made sense. I'd often feel even having the wrong thoughts would have me snuffed out by god, get teased with redemption even though I was made to feel beyond redeeming for normal child behaviours. Then being in public becomes confusing when you see other families having completely different values and living just fine and happily, yet they're sinning because they don't believe in god? What a rip. I feel like I escaped a cult.
oh my god i could have written this!!! you stole the words right out of my mouth ALL of that is completely relatable!!! disgusting how they made us feel "sinful" for normal fucking child stuff!!! ugh!!!!
You did escape a cult. I grew up similar to you. I totally relate. Normal mistakes were seen as a personal moral failures and not as a person trying to navigate the complex, deeply nuanced world.
I’m saying that according to the Bible what they were saying is wrong. A lie will not send anyone to hell. In Christianity your salvation is not based on a good / bad deeds scale of sorts
What gets me is someone who didn’t grow up in a religious home but the abuse was still there Then the person becomes part of a religious community that reinforces the abuse they went through as a child.
Jesus warned that many would use His name, but when they stand before Him saying "Lord, Lord..", He will say, "I never knew you." He doesn't approve of fakes.
Once you remove the context of religion or spirituality, all of these actions are the same as they would no matter what. Crappy behavior is just crappy behavior.
I could go on and on and on about my childhood. My dad was a Presbyterian minister. He was ordained when I was 11 tears old. Both my mom and dad shoved their beliefs down my throat, which kept changing as I got older and wiser. I believe in God in my own way now that I'm 60 years old and they are both dead.
When I was in 6th grade, my grandfather would tell me that putting basketball ahead of God was a sin, my parents would agree. Fast forward to about a year ago. I was getting divorced from a toxic marriage, and I put on some weight. I started going to the gym, and my diet was clean and successfully lost 32 pounds of fat. I was told the same thing. Putting your health ahead of God is sinful, and I'm going to hell. My family said his brain is "getting bad," yet they all agreed with him and ganged up on me. All this has brought me closer to God.
I was targeted by my ex’s religious fantasists for TELLING THE TRUTH about their woman-beating, drug addicted, psychotic son. Be careful who you associate with. There are some people who would prefer to literally drive you to either doubt your reality or worse over just telling the truth and apologizing. It’s wild out here.
Thank you Jerry. This one really has me thinking. I have never thought of the aspect of religion with regards to my belief that my family is sick and narcissistic at root. This has given me a lot to consider. My very elderly mother continues to use religion and degrees of belief and compliance to her interpretation of Christianity as a stick to beat me. She really believes what she says and there is little room for manoeuvre. There never has been. Thanks for this xx
Unfortunately my covert malignant narc parent is a leader at the church they attend. They even preach a few times a year. How the other leaders even approve of them being a leader is beyond me! 🙈 So everything they do comes from an air of 'authority' because of the church title. Also makes them even more entitled to abuse, smear campaign me, etc.
I was adopted into a very religious narcissistic family. Behind closed door I was kept behind in life and neglected emotionally and educationally. But if there’s anything happening at church, we were there. From pulling weeds to mowing to Sunday school help out! Forget if the church needs help we’re just there no matter what! And of course my family was the pillar of the church! I’m out now thank God I can breathe.
It is disgusting when any person twists and weapon uses a person's faith against someone. I know this from experience and it pisses me off every time I see it happen.
I grew up with two religious narcissistic parents and I am still repulsed by religion decades later. I am not against religious people or God, but that is just not a good place for me having seen the results.
I grew up Catholic in Ireland. My dad’s side of the family are hyper religious and when myself & my siblings told my dad that we were atheists (this was staggered over many many years) he would yell and rage out telling us that it made him a failure in God’s eyes and how could we do this to him and how could we embarrass him like that. I kept going to mass for several years despite knowing in my bones that I didn’t believe in a higher power, all because of his guilt tripping and a fear of violence. In fact, I’d have probably kept it a secret much longer if my sister hadn’t outed me once to get the attention off herself. I haven’t spoken to that man in almost 6 years. I would like to have seen his face when he learnt that I was gay though, that would have made me smile I think.
I often wonder if my narc mother will be in heaven after she dies. As a child and then a young adult, I endured every single one of the weaponized points that Jerry makes. My mother chose to bring me up in a church that was legalistic and more concerned with the appearance of piety and the “thou shalt nots” than anything else. This made this particular church and denomination an unsafe and dismissive place for me when I attempted to get real answers about God and help for the abusive way that my mother treated me. It made me hate myself, doubt myself and reject God for a long time. I’m thankful that God led me to a place where people finally welcomed me, embraced me and cared for me - they were living out the true tenets of the gospel and I experienced unconditional love for the first time. They supported & encouraged me on my spiritual journey and I could finally see that everything my mother and her church had been teaching was/is rooted in shame & fear. I’m extremely grateful that, now as a parent, I won’t be passing spiritual toxicity on to my own children.
When I started singing in church my narcissistic parents didn't like that. It's like, not only do I need to have the same belief, I have to behave exactly the same in church too. I can't believe even more than they do, or more enthusiastically than them. As an adult one day my dad said to me: "You don't believe in that." referring to Christianity. I replied "You don't believe it either." and he was rattled. Of course I do believe in a creator despite my science background. But I was stung by him proclaiming something negative and false about me in front of other people. My parents weren't sophisticated or even social personalities so it's amazing how they did this kind of stuff. There were no how-to books they read to say here, do this. But all they're doing is being themselves so there's really nothing that sophisticated about it.
you hit the nail on the spot Jerry, this was very painful but so true. sometimes I wonder about my life how I made it this far. seems like a miracle. much appreciated as always for your insights Jerry. 💯
It seems to not matter which religious (or "religious") propositions are in play in this dynamic either. Narcissists will use any system of orthodoxies that can be used to manipulate through fear or shame. For example, political orthodoxies are big ones that are probably going to be the cudgel used on the next generation of kids as society continues to secularize.
My parents are LDS (Mormon) where it's doctrine that we all chose our families before being born. The way that was/is used to counter any challenges to family dynamics or treatment is a total mind fuck....esp when you're whole world view is developed within that mindset both in the home and in the community.
Wow, Jerry. It's like you have met my parents. They brought me up in the Christian faith. They couldn't handle it when I decided that the Gospel was telling me to vote for different candidates than they do and to not hate the people they hate. Then they cut me off when I realized I was a closeted member of the LGBTQ community. Somehow I did not lose my faith through all of that.
I relate well to parents isolating you from other "influences" and making church mandatory. My parents sent me to a Christian school growing up, wouldn't let me listen to any music other than Christian music, and overall just kept me pretty isolated from anything that wasn't Christian. It created an "us" vs "them" mentality that I carried with me as long as I was Christian (I no longer am). They also would punish me if I didn't go to church with them up until I was a legal adult, and even then they would try to guilt me if I didn't. I wouldn't necessarily call my parents full-blown narcissists, but I do think they had some narcissistic traits.
Jerry, this is the one I've been waiting for you to tackle as long as I have been learning from you and finding your channel a couple of years ago. This is better than I could have dreamed of in terms of how you understand and are able to articulate so beautifully, exactly and more, what I couldn't express or verbalise myself. You have absolutely taken my experience and liberated or emancipated me from the mental frustration and messed up confusion that has cost me a life. You have just cracked the Enigma Code and laid bare the one thing I couldn't express, which have been the knots in my stomach I couldn't untie. Thanks so much Jerry. This is really what has been the missing piece of the jigsaw to sum up my quest for freedom from confusion. You have empowered me to start the process of moving forward, I am going to copy the link to this offering of yours here today and send it to my friends who will hopefully see the answers to what I could never express so perfectly.
Cherry pick they don't like a relative unless they can use them to support their point and then my mother goes back twirling and pulling on her hair obsessive compulsive disorder to ingrain the thoughts she continues to find and support her own views
My mother the malignant narcissist told me that i had to forgive her because im a Christian and the Holy spirit lives inside me. I was so shocked she said it twice.
Thank You. This type here🤪 can make you lose your religion. The one's I know do not keep that basic tenet of loving your neighbor as yourself. In the home, they are unkind, seem to be joyless, and REQUIRE absolute obedience. I believe if you fall for this you add on to your sin count because if they are centralized like they want; it becomes more like idol worship than just obedience, honor, and such.
My former church ruined church for me. I don't think I will ever trust a person whose occupation is pastor. That pastor was the most manipulative person I have ever met...
Very relatable, is my experience. They push the guilt and shame. Right, surely an extra layer, and for impressionable kids sincerely believing they'll go to hell if they get "it" (could be something incredibly minor) wrong. Forces compliance. Weapanized Bible verses, dreadful. I've come to view this kind of behavior and legitimately blashphemous. Some kids want to do nothing with religion after this experience.
Im going through this right now. My entire family are Jehovah's Witnesses (I used to be a JW)so this video discribes my whole child/ adulthood.. they are encouraged to be this way. I have a 2 year old son with my boyfriend (so we're not married) and because of that "sin", my family not only Shun me but refuse to be around my son.
Finally get your family OUT OF YOU & be the true self you were never allowed to be 👇
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I have learned so much from you I can’t thank you enough Mr wise,your the best!!!
My very narcissistic mother died 8 years ago and my oldest sister has stepped into her shoes (well, she was actually her lifelong understudy). Recently I reached out via letter to this estranged sister and spoke of my becoming a Christian (formerly catholic) and she wrote a four page long letter berating me. It was akin to a ‘ kiss and a slap’ tactic.
She questioned my faith and everything under the sun but couched it in religion (she’s a catholic). My letter wasn’t filled with anything but an attempt to communicate in a kind way. I thought since she estranged herself that she might have softened over the last nine years (i tried to reach out before with no reply). I’ve prayed for wisdom and now realize I’ll love her from afar-unfortunately.
This is the worst kind of narcissist in my opinion. The absolute worst.
Absolutely and the most dangerous!!!!!!!!!
Spiritual abuse is literally the worst kind of abuse. It’s closely related to emotional and psychological abuse.
Absolutely agree! I get asked”do you know what such and such scripture says” and then when I don’t know I get told I’m not spiritual enough, etc🫤
And my mother to a tee
I totally agree.
My enabler told me I had to forgive my ab*ser because of Christianity, but never told the ab*ser to repent. Intriguing how selective it is.
💯💯
That's really a mindf**k, particularly when it's an adult doing the dirty deed.
omg i had the same.
Abuse ? ok!
Not forgiving the abuse? OMG YOU’RE A TERRIBLE PERSON
Right! Not how it works and also there is so much around that like misdefining “forgiveness,” being accused of being “bitter” or putting the cart before the horse or “coercive forgiveness” and so on. I had to go pore over scripture for myself and wow was it an eye opener. Many times we are literally just being falsely accused by both the abuser AND the ignorant religious masses. Now I see it more like they just don’t know what they’re even talking about. They didn’t ever study it. They just all jumped on some religious bandwagon and called it “Gospel.” Swallowed it all hook, line and sinker without a second thought.
Right. The whole responsibility of a conflict is thrust upon your shoulders.
Last time I checked, a conflict takes at least two people. So how it’s only one person’s fault?
They will preach kindness, but not practice it. They will fake gentleness through quiet, covert, abuse, and call it compassion because it was quiet. They demand everyone punish those who offend them. If you complain about abuse, they will preach forgiveness. They don’t want to hear your complaints because there truly is no compassion or empathy in them.
All religions are death cults protected by abusers.
💯💯 narcissist use religion, gods, people, animals, anything to manipulate others to be good people meanwhile they arent
Well described. Exactly what I go through with my mother. She's such a devotee in congregations but behaves like a religious woman who has been gravely wronged at home spewing "righteous practices" that I failed at doing just like the ones you mentioned here . Also Jerry is too good at what he has said in this video. Hit the nail on the head 🌻
Many don’t practice what they ‘Preach’. They pray only when it serves them. Projection is a given. Those in my family can be described as Emergency Room Christians. 😂
💯 God to most narcissist is just someone that allows them to behave however and will love them and give them things regardless just like how narcissist view people. I've seen the most wicked things from religious ppl
The cult I grew up surrounded by were mostly Fire insurance salesmen. One pastor, to my recollection, who was educated as a counselor at Asbury College, spoke from the Holy Spirit.
I love that - ER Christians 😂. Mine are too
My "Christian" narcissist parent's family dynamic was horrible. They would weaponize the Bible against me.
As a teen, I started bringing Bible verses back to them in exchange. "Parents to not provoke your children to wrath" was one. Boy, did they hate it when I used the Bible to highlight their bad behavior! Forgiveness does not require reconciliation.
Recently had to bring up James as well. Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger.
@@Glowie34765 Good call!
You are very smart 😂. 2 weeks ago I realized my Sister and mum is completely f***** up in their heads...I understand I was family scapegoat . Gone no contact . My family was full of narcissistic abuse, toxic religion powerabuse. My mum did not treat me as a child ,nor as a person . But an object. She was dissapointed when I was 4- 5 that I wasnt Christ...She was a sadist and a demon dr Jekyll mr Hyde. Dad was a narcissist. But in light of her he was a friend. God is Holy. Nothing was holy to mum. ...
@@SaraSundgren-p2f Completely understand. Hopefully you are healthy and recovering. God Is Great. Christ Is King.
@Glowie34765 Thank you !🕊🧠🔥Yes Jesus is King. Recovery is a process! I hope you are healing and protect yourself and your boundaries well. Recovery is a journey 🦋
My parents aren’t religious and they still use “Honor your Father and Mother”, against me. I’m the one who goes to church and they don’t. 🤷🏻♀️
Paraphased- 'brothers, why do you concern yourselves with the splinter in the eye of your brother, pluck first the rafter from your own eye and you will see clear to help your brother' comes to mind.
The verse is often used to allow abusive behavior to continue. Jesus never required people to honor what is not honorable.
@@bonnielewin8520Well put, Bonnie. Thank you. We don't have to honor what is not honorable.
Another way it works is, as Jerry's always saying and it's true, do not try to understand these "people" ( monsters if you ask me) along normal rules cuz this is an abnormal situation and it calls for abnormal rules- exceptions to the rules. Just like they are, only benevolently.
Honor you mother and father is only applicable when you are a child,when you become an adult it is not applicable…
@@sylviagonzales1680 - That’s what can be referred to as hypocritical! 🤦🏾 I was sent to church as a young child while my mother stayed sleeping in bed and fornicating.
I kept hearing “honour your father and mother” and “turn the other cheek”whenever I said “no” to their abuse.
"father's, be not a burden unto your children" is in the same book iirc. Could be wrong about the location though.
SAME. That phrase has justified so much ab*se.
....they see themselve as god and it is a sin to Do what their ego's want
Ephesians 6:4
“Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.”
My mom once kicked me out of her house because I used this verse in a response to her saying that we had to honor her simply because she was our mother. I didn’t even know what exasperated meant, but I knew she was doing it. Most versions use provoke to anger now. That makes a lot of sense.
It's interesting how I only heard the "honor/obey your parents" parts of the religion growing up but never the "love, befriend, honor, protect your children".
My abuser constantly used " If you don't forgive others GOD will not forgive you". I have since learned that forgiveness is not about letting someone harm me over and over again. That is just letting your self be abused. ❤ God loves his children.
Too many people equate forgiveness with reconciliation. They are separate entities.
Well said. @@sheilabest3652
Exactly! This has been the hardest one for me as well. Especially since the Bible says that you have to forgive 7 times 70. I used to think that meant that even if they keep hurting you, you have to forgive. I have been on this journey for at least 2 years probably longer, and just now at 36 years old finally heard what that verse is actually saying. It’s actually saying that if you ruminate about it, then you have to forgive in your thoughts or at least say that you are done thinking about it. Where has that been my whole life?
It doesn’t mean that you have to keep taking abuse, which is what so many people think it means. So many people have left the church and it really is a tragedy. Satan knows what He’s doing.
@@sheilabest3652oh, wow. I had to learn that one the hard way too.
Forgiveness means loving from a distance.
I no longer want revenge and I want them to have a good life. I just sadly can’t be part of it because I can no longer take the pain. 💯 %
@@annaburns2865 I wonder if Satan isn't really the duality of each of us, determined by the free will choices we make. Maybe we really are the devils, it walks within each of us!
"Focus on building the self you were never allowed to have."
This was me. They gave me an exorcism. Today as a 33 year old, my brain is mush. I can't talk to people anymore without feeling a need to explain why I am so awkward and stuff and I know that is weird to people in itself. I've become so isolated. I don't believe in myself and always going through spiritual battles, with intense feeling of shame and guilt just for being human. Even though I am aware I feel like its just hyper awareness and cant think about anything else. All day every day.
Oho, yeah.
The first time _my_ mom tried to exorcise a demon outta me, I thought it was hilarious in hindsight. She was _that_ spooked by my anger, that she saw it as *inhuman* and a spiritual attack.
Which is... nuts.
Stop explaining any thoughts or behaviors. You are a wise individual. Guilt and shame serve no good.
You deserve love . Unconditional love. Heal inner child by Kenneth Lock, evolve church talks about trauma of lack of love by church, parents. Really recommend. Also you seem to have cptds, reactive stress, but its not your fault. Your victim of Spiritual abuse narcissism. Jesus came for life of abundance, its the thief that only come to steal, kill and destroy. John 10:10. I had heart surgery after toxic stress. I dissociated a lot from sadism snd abuse. But worship music & Td Jakes & Don Johnson & Sarah Jakes Roberts sermons give me empowerment opposite my pains voice.." I did not know I was me ", " God is undoing the damage " & " Be crazy like a fox" really speak life in dead situations....Shame and guilt is not your authentic self. Maybe therapy of attachment heal betrayal of your inner child ? You deserve love as an adult❤
I’ve been waiting for this type of topic. This has been a horrendous aspect of my childhood abuse.
I know how you feel. It was the same for me too.
For me too
Thank you for brilliant observations and excellent advice. I have experienced it almost all with religious narcissists in my family and my church. Religious narcissists are the most deadly because they are breaking the spirits of vulnerable people both children and adults and in that way crippling the victims spiritual life which is the most profound source of love, joy, truth , peace and meaning.
It has the same sort of dynamic as domestic violence which sets it apart from regular violence. It's particularly damaging because the violence is coming from a source that you should be able to, logically and socially, to expect the best Goodwill from, but you get the worst treatment instead. IT's very very disorienting and there's no safe place to go after a while.
And they do so with scripture that somehow always makes them right and everyone else wrong
Raised catholic. I had a Mormon friend as a child I really liked and my parents often brought up her family being Mormon as a negative. I was invited to a sleep over but wasn’t allowed to spend the night. Then after that I wasn’t allowed to hang out with her again. They did that a lot to me and I had a lot of problems as I got older making friends. I still have a lot of anger towards my parents for this and at the negative way Catholicism f’d up my life
Finally someone has made a video about the destructive effects of christian fundamentalism and its use of power to control. I was traumatized by my sick narco fundamentalist evangelical parents who avoided responsibility by claiming to be such pious christians. We need more information on this because we are inundated by religious nuts who want to control our lives and bodies. It took me decades to find resources on how religious trauma damages innocent lives. Thank you, Jerry!
There is now new diagnose in USA religious trauma. I feel similar against much church. I contacted governmemt departement of protect children from emotional and Spiritual abuse by childs perspectives and listen to childs experience. Also mailed someone in court a reflection of madness to help be able support how to prevent madness of narcissistic abuse and gaslighting manipulation of responsibility to maze of con and complex trauma. Health care have little or no understanding of emotional abuse within church. I was assaulted try to deal w root trauma of " sinner , powerless " exoloit ...
Had me report 2 narcissistic men when after 7 years attacked by madness in church - had report to Police and seek calming pills at psychiatric acute. Also Celebrate Recovery I also reported : Had trauma response . Brainwash is not authenticity and free will and boundaries. ..Jesus is standing outside of most churches. ..Sanity & sobriety. Protect kids and people ...
Heal inner child by Kenneth Lock, Evolve church adress Spiritual neglect and emotional abuse by unloving parents ...
This has been such an issue with me. My parents were experts at inducing fear and guilt using religious dogma.
Cradle Catholic here. Walked away from the church after 48 yrs to the dismay of my mom (devout Catholic) and brother (born again Christian).
I was raised and expected to be a lifelong Christian. But as an adult, I found my own spirituality. My family was aghast. My narc stepmom, when I complained about the summer heat, would quip "it's going to be hotter in Hell!" She also was cruel and insulting to everyone she met, but she would brag, "I KNOW where I'm going when I die" (meaning heaven) 🙄
Your stepmom sounds a lot like my mother. They think they only have to "believe in Jesus" in order to go to heaven, like they just have to say it, like it's a spell or something. I say: then start behaving like it. You will naturally change your behavior if you truly and deeply believe in something. Believing in Jesus means aligning your behavior with his teachings. But you can't tell a narcissist that. They want to keep on behaving however they want and then have Jesus 'save them' at the end.
@@MichaelPhillipsatGreyOwlStudio Exactly 👍😳
Same here!!!! I hear that sort of thing too! It’s sickening.
Religious narcissist. I suffered the same....Hell is other people (like them).
Oh man, so sorry to hear that! My Catholic narc mother despised all jews (we lived in a neighborhood of doctors and lawyers and my Jewish friends were never allowed over) and on 9/11 my narc MIL responded to my tears by the very same words..."I know where I'm going..." She died in February and I'm pretty sure she isn't where she thought she'd be.😏
The term "spiritual bypassing" changed my entire understanding of my family's Christianity, as well as began the healing of my religious trauma.
John Welwood ❤
My late mother was a religious covert narc. Not only did she shove Catholicism down my throat at age 7 to learn prayers by heart because I was told I was bad and needed a savior (I could not grasp the concept of death and was now terrified), I was forced to attend catechism every Saturday morning, then church on Sunday. All this after five long days of school during the week...There was never any time off from someone telling me what to do or think. Later, she taught catechism for 15 years, and never let me forget it, including having my dad call me across state lines to threaten me if I didn't call back every week (this was when I was in my 50s). This is only the tip of the iceberg. There was no rest for me until she was laid to rest last year; I did not attend her funeral. I'm 66. I learned so much from you, Jerry; I wish I had discovered your work many years ago....It set me free...
If your mother is a catholic then she is a pegan,that is an absolute fact !!!!!
Th Vatican is satans throne….
My family too, fear based Catholicism classes too
Congratulations for discovering your freedom. :)
I need a hug
Giving you 100 hugs but most importantly I hope you can give yourself a genuine loving hug❤️
Internet hugs to you.
🫂
Hugs given 🤗 You are seen, you are heard, you are loved.
Sending you a virtual hug ❤
My Mom always used God/religion as a cruel weapon. For instance, "if you do something wrong, and I don't know about it, God will tell me and your punishment will be even worse!" Or bad children will never be raptured.
YES mine did shit like that too especiallyu the first one!!! led to me feeling constantly surveilled and watched it was AWFUL
@@Purrfect_1 my parents were never religious, yet they always said stuff to me like “God will never forgive you for this”, or “Honor your Father and Mother”. Ironically I’m the one who goes to church on Sundays and they don’t lol and they even try and use that against me, saying stuff like “we don’t know why you bother going to Church if look at how you are.” They say that because I don’t do what they say 😂
@@sylviagonzales1680 Honor your father and mother must have been conjured up by narcs, because a child never asks to be born.
Yes I relate ! My mom still has dreams about snakes which she said are demons and they are after me ! I asked her did God reveal these dreams were for me or maybe something regarding her? I have 2 younger brothers I am the oldest with no childhood, I was the mommy had to take that role at age 4 . Yes age 4! I am now 64 and my covert mom still does this to keep me in constant fear! I’ve set boundaries and in my conversations with her she’ll try to throw that snake thing in there and I tell her I will hang up , and I do! I’m exhausted going thru all this drama since I was a little girl ! She says God reveals these things to her in dreams although I’m not in the dreams she just does this crap!!
@@terrimoore8962 It took for me to finally breathe is the day she finally died, I was no longer in fear and I could live my life how I wanted to. I tried breaking it up and not talk to her, but she ended up calling the police on me to do a welfare check on me, and it wouldn’t end until I spoke to her. She was the craziest person I ever knew, and she knew how to get away with it and make me look like the crazy one!
This is 💯 my mom. She’s a codependent, religious covert narc enabler, and my dad is an overt narcissist.
I have three siblings, and of course one of them has grown up to be an overt narcissist herself. Mom blames my sister’s behavior on the “devil” or on her lack of religion-she’s never held accountable for her own actions, and of course my parents are oblivious to the fact that we were raised in a dysfunctional household. I could go on and on about the hypocrisy of my suffocating catholic upbringing. 😣
I’m now a mom to two young boys, and my husband and I are raising them to be open minded, empathetic, and thoughtful people-WITHOUT religion.
I’m adopted if I didnt wanna go to church 6 days a week mom would threaten to send me back. Also when the church peers laughed at “ me not having a real mom” she did nothing
If I even so much as fell off my bike, my parents would tell me that God was punishing me. “What did you do to deserve that?”
I needed to see this video I grew up with a father exactly like this. I had no control over anything not even my own thoughts he had me over medicated for adhd 60mg extended release. Try having holy water thrown on you at 2 am as you get thrown around the house by a 300lb man no one to help
This was my life growing up. My mother is deeply religious, and I call her codependent on Jesus. My father used to lead music at churches. We were at church every time the door was open. My brother didn't have to do all the church things I did -- he got special treatment because he was difficult to deal with. My mother wanted to live through me, and I had to do everything available for my age group. That pressure of being the music minister's child made things worse. I was expected to perform and make them look good. My anxiety was so terrible that I often screwed up on stage and embarrassed myself. I hated it. I couldn't say no. I still carry deep shame from those times, decades ago, but I am trying to work through it in counseling.
On the outside we were a perfect, put-together family. Pillars of the community. Behind closed doors, it was the total opposite.
This religious abuse is the reason today that I no longer call myself a Christian or have any faith at all. Nothing felt real or personal to me. I was doing it to make people happy and not disappointed. Seeing how my mother and father put on fronts every Sunday and on Wednesday night and then behaved like demons the rest of the week turned me off of any sort of religion. The hypocrisy and double standards were disgusting. If my family are going to heaven, then I don't want to be there with them. I can't imagine spending an eternity with such fake, horrible people knowing that they were forgiven when they weren't sorry for being cruel and abusive and made no attempts to stop.
Thank you for this video, Jerry. It is entirely relevant to my existence.
My thoughts exactly, if my “family” goes to heaven, I don’t want to be there. Spending eternity anywhere those unrepentant cruel monsters end up would be a hell for me. I can no longer believe in God the way I once tried to do. What kind of God allows this? So many times I prayed for help as a child and just silence…sometimes the abuse got worse. Cruel beasts they are, if my “mother” wasn’t psychologically or physically abusing me, she was neglecting or ignoring me. I believe this is done strategically to let you know you are alone with the abuse, no one cares and no one is coming to save you. “See, not even God cares how I treat you.” That beast still sits with the Bible daily and tries to present as a soft gentle Christian but she’s really just a demon in human form.
@@kjsstudent I am terribly sorry you experienced that misery too. While I'm trying to process everything that happened, I come back to thinking about how a "loving" and "just" god could allow such insidious abuse to happen to innocent children. Why didn't he answer my prayers? Why was there always silence and no divine intervention to get HIS PEOPLE WHO ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD AND KIND BECAUSE THEIR HOLY BOOK SAYS TO to stop hurting me? If god is watching me all the time and knows everything about me and is omni-everything, why can't god see that I'm hurting, that I have no recourse, and that I can't leave because I'm a teenager? Why won't he help me? I trusted him.
But MuH FrEe wiLL
How about no? That's not surprising at all you can't believe in god the way you used to. Everything we were taught makes zero sense when it's held up to scrutiny. I could rant about this for hours.
Just know that I extend my deepest sympathies to you and hope that you find your path in life. Best wishes to you on your healing journey.
@@spacegirl226thank you and same to you. I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Your parents have God all wrong. And without their true repentance & an actual relationship with Jesus they won’t be in heaven. Passages like Matthew 7:21-23 & Matthew 18:6 help to make this clear. Can I encourage you to read the Bible for yourselves & ask God to show you who He really is? As I’ve done that I’ve been very surprised as to how much false teaching has been perpetuated and taken as true by the Church over the centuries. The Bible itself warns us over & over about it.
God bless you guys. I hope you find Him as He really is. 🙏🏻
This is the reason I'm an Atheist and thankfully never been religiously abused by anyone. I have on the other hand heard of plenty of horrible stories of plenty of people especially women be abused by religious orders by mostly men, pastors and some enabling women.
whew this so on point for me. I absolutely refuse christianity after living through this kind childhood.
you can’t convince me there is a god based on his congregation’s behavior
I have given up organized religion because of this. Now I consider myself a 'Spiritual Christian.'
It took me many years to tease out God from organized religion. But I am proof it can be done.
@@ruthhamilton4882
Me, too.
completely agreed. after seeing how self riteous and confident in her christian beliefs my nmom was even after all the cruel bullshit she put us through??? i was like yeah this is just opium for narcissists.
Agreed 100%. I feel you. You can't convince me there's a god based on his own behavior.
When I saw the title of this video I had to take a deep breath and say "Hoo, boy!" before I dived in. I got the narcissistic treatment in a triple (or quadruple) whammy. Both my parents are narcissistic to various degrees, both are fundamentalist evangelical Christians and both are very conservative politically. And I'm gay. So, you can just imagine how that's gone over the last 30-40 years. I'm now 56, and I personally feel like my life's potential has largely been ruined, and I'm just trying to salvage what I can before I get too old.
And, yes, my mother weaponizes her Christianity all the time in her attempts to manipulate me. I'm not anti-religious at all. In fact, I'm quite spiritual really but more in an Eastern philosophical way, with an interest in Buddhism mainly.
Wow, that is tough.
I'm agnostic and conservative politically. I know your pain about age...I'm 66, though look at it this way....Many from my childhood are no longer around, so like you, I am making the most of what I have left.
I really feel for you. I too was brought up in a fundamentalist Christian family. I am 69 and feel that in many ways it is too late to make up for the damage done.
I also turned to Buddhism about 10 years ago, and it has been a tremendous healing force in my life.
Stay strong, take comfort in the knowledge you are not alone.
I too am gay and have experienced great loss of life from my families narc abuses . I soo have empathy for you as I feel the exact same way . I lost way too much time and this part of my life I call “recovery” . Just know you are still here and live like it’s last day ! I find myself truly living out loud and don’t have time for any negativity or could care less of others opinions. I wasted a lifetime with a family who could care less what I think or even know me . Know you are not alone.
This is a nutshell of my childhood. You hit every point (including the multiple exorcisms) I could never do Christianity "right" according to my mother, I was always full of demons and going to hell. So I concluded Christianity was not for me. I am now a healthy and well adjusted Pagan.
May everyone who desires faith have their faith unimpacted by this abuse, may those who don't desire faith have the freedom to live their life free of it 🙏
my dad was literally an outspoken atheist until i broke out of the scapegoat role. now suddenly he's going to christian church and "praying for me" and "talking to god" after spending my whole childhood telling me how ridiculous he found christianity. i came out as trans and he looked for years to find a scientific reason to "break me out" to no avail, now he's changed his strategy to spirituality 7 years later after 4 years of pseudoscience didn't work. i can't take anything he says seriously anymore. he literally only believes whatever he thinks will keep me most reliant on him.
Being trans is not some kind of "grave sin" if fact I have deep compassion for those who are gay or trans and I truly what I believe is a revelation from God about how some of considered "worst" people, are actually the most loved by God. We're not saved by what we do. CHRIST payed for it all and i being the worst of sinners, (way worse than you) have been saved forever and repent means to change your mind. No one can "turn away" from sin.... we believe and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and that's it.... "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and you believe that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. I LOVE YOU SO MUCH 🙏 😏
Religion is the opposite of true spiritual practice. It’s controlling not freeing.
Thank you, Jerry Wise, for explaining my mother's religiosity and what effect it had on the 4 year old that God made wrong. I'm 71. It's been my search for many years to find answers. It's made me stronger than she could ever know. I liked your explanation. It makes so much sense. Finally.
Colleen
The evil narcissistic parent favorite scripture is, "honor thy mother and father." She would always use this to manipulate and control, and it was constantly thrown in my face.
Jerry, I'd like this video to be translated in many languages (by professional translators)
and then sent to all Pastoral Councils of every branch of Christianity.
This topic goes far beyond the narcissistic abuse we went through inside our families..
And yet, Christian churches don't speak enough about it.
[ Italy here. English grammar not here, I apologize for any possible mistake ]
*Thank you so much Jerry*
Other religions have the same issues - this is not just a Christian issue.....
@@pennyjackson1699
100% .
However, we Christians bring ( _should bring_ ) an *inherent core message* which is ( _should be_ ) structurally and specifically against that weaponization...
I was just hoovered and told we should forgive and move with the unity of God 😂😂😂
They can miss me with that BS because I don't even believe we serve the same one .
Unbelievably spot on. Really needed to hear this as a young person but great sanity check now.
That is both my parents and every flying monkey they have directly or indirectly brought against me. I hope to be free soon so i can breathe and live in peace.
Much wiseness detected
My mother's favorite weapon of choice is using scriptures as her way of stabbing me when I do or say something she doesn't like. She's queen of manipulation wrapped up in a guilt trip. Truly hurtful!
Fantastic, fantastic topic!!!! I do know a narcissist who weaponizes religion against her husband and 4 children. It’s very sad.
I was always told I was the godly child, the good child so any mistake was a sin against who I was and I had disappointed and angered God
Oh yeah, the Honouring bit. I was told "I don't expect your respect, I demand it."
Great video Jerry. 👍
Thank you Jerry. I have never heard this type of narcissistic abuse explained so well. My maternal grandmother’s family had a multi generational history of toxic Catholicism, that was steeped in fear, superstition, martyrdom and control. Thanks for validating my experience as well as pointing out more tools and a way towards individuality.
I still have a strong feeling of anxiety and anger if a priest or a nun comes across me in the street, although I have not been practising Catholicism for 11 years.
I think those people who preach and show everyone their superiority in religion and moral things, but don't really practice what they say, are called Pharisees.
When a narcissistic / controlling parent says “honor your father and mother” what they mean is “obey your parents” as if you are still a child.
That kind of convenient twisting of scripture in their favor is to be expected. Somehow scripture always seems to make them right
They certainly hate when you mention the bible also says to not provoke your children to anger.
Religion traumatized me. I spent days walking around wondering if I have to murder my children for god while being told to turn the cheek.
The way it was used only further damaged me. My parents converted midway-through my childhood to Buddhism which didn’t change anything. Nowadays I am simply being told I am full of hate. Very hurtful to label others emotions or perceptions that way, especially as a child.
THANK YOU FOR SPEAKING ON THIS IMPORTANT TOPIC SIR!💯🎯🎯💜
This is exactly what my narcissist MIL does. She’s seen as a spiritual leader in her circle of family and friends so it’s impossible for us to respectfully disagree with her without all her flying monkeys condemning us to hell. Once my brother in law, the biggest flying monkey of them all, actually said he would throw me and my husband a feast like the prodigal son received if we would set aside our boundaries and visit his mom.
It's certainly poetically appropriate that dismantling dysfunctional family systems is, in a way, casting out demons. Thank you, Jerry.
As a Christian, I have wondered if certain denominations are more likely to create or appeal to narcissists than others. Independent Fundamental Baptists for instance seem to always be angry, sarcastic and are legalistic against all sorts of harmless things and try to get you to feel guilty for enjoying them. They often have odd beliefs no one else has. They will often try to expose other decent pastors. And they often act as though they are the only true Christians around. I notice most of their preachers preach in a similar style. I have wondered how many of them are actually narcissists based on their beliefs and behaviors.
I grew up Southern Baptist, which is probably one of the worst for shoving everything down your throat and guilt tripping you that you're a horrible sinner in dire need of forgiveness when in reality you're a human being who made a mistake. Rarely do I hear about a Methodist or a Presbyterian that's so strict and rigid, though I know they must be out there of course, but Baptists are another animal.
narcissists, enablers,triangulations, gaslighting can be found in many professions and are common
Yup, fundamentalist christians also known as evangelicals. When any religion purports to have the absolute truth and tells their followers to convert everyone else to their beliefs, it is a danger to other citizens who don’t want that religion forced upon them.
Calvinism is another one I have seen spiritual arrogance and a tendency to see themselves as elite (theelect) and tend to view themselves as right all the time even on things that are not directly stated in scripture.
All that,but in Texas it was also within the Southern Baptist denominations. As a child in '70's I can recall the kinder yet old-school preachers locking horns immediately with that Moral Majority crowd that sided with raygun. White preachers going at each over civil rights equalling to women's rights. As a kid,I heard it,saw it,but didn't understand any significance until later. I miss those 4 Gospel Christian's from back in the day as they knew how to keep it simple.
I was basically blackmailed into Christianity. My mom wanted to force me into the church. So one time, when I was about 5 years old and my dad was out of town, my mom and I went to the local pizza place. My mom said "If you accept Jesus into your heart, I'll get you a calzone." Idk about most people but if you dont genuinely want to do something, its never going to work out. Not only did my mom bring me into the church with calzone blackmail tactics, but also she was the Sunday school teacher, VBS leader, as well as always getting dragged to bible studies on weekends. Not to mention, she was forcing me for awhile to go over teen Christian workbooks and had to keep a reflection journal. All of that on top of regular school, sports year round, and learning musical instruments. It shouldn't have been a shock to them that by the time I was 16, I was very ready to leave the church. To this day, she still thinks that was a normal thing to do. That sorta mindset is why I dont go on family vacations or eat out with them anymore.
You were 5 😢 sorry that happened to you.
Even at a young age, I'd be told that children can go to hell and that lying is a sin. How could any god be so cruel that they'd send kids to hell for innocent natured behaviour, it never made sense. I'd often feel even having the wrong thoughts would have me snuffed out by god, get teased with redemption even though I was made to feel beyond redeeming for normal child behaviours.
Then being in public becomes confusing when you see other families having completely different values and living just fine and happily, yet they're sinning because they don't believe in god? What a rip.
I feel like I escaped a cult.
oh my god i could have written this!!! you stole the words right out of my mouth ALL of that is completely relatable!!! disgusting how they made us feel "sinful" for normal fucking child stuff!!! ugh!!!!
You did escape a cult.
I grew up similar to you. I totally relate. Normal mistakes were seen as a personal moral failures and not as a person trying to navigate the complex, deeply nuanced world.
We are saved by grace through faith
Apart from works
It is the gift of God lest any man boast
@@wannabewoodworker9705 ???
I’m saying that according to the Bible what they were saying is wrong. A lie will not send anyone to hell. In Christianity your salvation is not based on a good / bad deeds scale of sorts
My father and aunts are religious holier than thou narcissists!
What gets me is someone who didn’t grow up in a religious home but the abuse was still there Then the person becomes part of a religious community that reinforces the abuse they went through as a child.
Jesus warned that many would use His name,
but when they stand before Him saying "Lord, Lord..", He will say, "I never knew you."
He doesn't approve of fakes.
Thank you sir Wise!
Very welcome
My parents weren't even religious yet did some of this
That’s wild
People use whatever they can grab to control people.
Once you remove the context of religion or spirituality, all of these actions are the same as they would no matter what. Crappy behavior is just crappy behavior.
I could go on and on and on about my childhood. My dad was a Presbyterian minister. He was ordained when I was 11 tears old. Both my mom and dad shoved their beliefs down my throat, which kept changing as I got older and wiser. I believe in God in my own way now that I'm 60 years old and they are both dead.
When I was in 6th grade, my grandfather would tell me that putting basketball ahead of God was a sin, my parents would agree. Fast forward to about a year ago. I was getting divorced from a toxic marriage, and I put on some weight. I started going to the gym, and my diet was clean and successfully lost 32 pounds of fat. I was told the same thing. Putting your health ahead of God is sinful, and I'm going to hell. My family said his brain is "getting bad," yet they all agreed with him and ganged up on me. All this has brought me closer to God.
You hit the nail on the head with this one. I rebelled from Jesus as a teen because I thought God's voice was the same as my parents' voices.
I was targeted by my ex’s religious fantasists for TELLING THE TRUTH about their woman-beating, drug addicted, psychotic son. Be careful who you associate with. There are some people who would prefer to literally drive you to either doubt your reality or worse over just telling the truth and apologizing. It’s wild out here.
Thank you Jerry. This one really has me thinking. I have never thought of the aspect of religion with regards to my belief that my family is sick and narcissistic at root. This has given me a lot to consider. My very elderly mother continues to use religion and degrees of belief and compliance to her interpretation of Christianity as a stick to beat me. She really believes what she says and there is little room for manoeuvre. There never has been. Thanks for this xx
Unfortunately my covert malignant narc parent is a leader at the church they attend. They even preach a few times a year. How the other leaders even approve of them being a leader is beyond me! 🙈
So everything they do comes from an air of 'authority' because of the church title. Also makes them even more entitled to abuse, smear campaign me, etc.
I was adopted into a very religious narcissistic family. Behind closed door I was kept behind in life and neglected emotionally and educationally. But if there’s anything happening at church, we were there. From pulling weeds to mowing to Sunday school help out! Forget if the church needs help we’re just there no matter what! And of course my family was the pillar of the church! I’m out now thank God I can breathe.
I’ve see people be so caring to the church building/ activities they didnt really play the role as a parent they should have. Sad
It is disgusting when any person twists and weapon uses a person's faith against someone. I know this from experience and it pisses me off every time I see it happen.
I grew up with two religious narcissistic parents and I am still repulsed by religion decades later. I am not against religious people or God, but that is just not a good place for me having seen the results.
Thank you, Jerry!
Another HUGE layer of abuse
Oh thank you for this message! Please, if you have more on this please please share!
This is the one I’ve been waiting for!
I grew up Catholic in Ireland. My dad’s side of the family are hyper religious and when myself & my siblings told my dad that we were atheists (this was staggered over many many years) he would yell and rage out telling us that it made him a failure in God’s eyes and how could we do this to him and how could we embarrass him like that.
I kept going to mass for several years despite knowing in my bones that I didn’t believe in a higher power, all because of his guilt tripping and a fear of violence.
In fact, I’d have probably kept it a secret much longer if my sister hadn’t outed me once to get the attention off herself.
I haven’t spoken to that man in almost 6 years.
I would like to have seen his face when he learnt that I was gay though, that would have made me smile I think.
I often wonder if my narc mother will be in heaven after she dies. As a child and then a young adult, I endured every single one of the weaponized points that Jerry makes. My mother chose to bring me up in a church that was legalistic and more concerned with the appearance of piety and the “thou shalt nots” than anything else. This made this particular church and denomination an unsafe and dismissive place for me when I attempted to get real answers about God and help for the abusive way that my mother treated me. It made me hate myself, doubt myself and reject God for a long time. I’m thankful that God led me to a place where people finally welcomed me, embraced me and cared for me - they were living out the true tenets of the gospel and I experienced unconditional love for the first time. They supported & encouraged me on my spiritual journey and I could finally see that everything my mother and her church had been teaching was/is rooted in shame & fear. I’m extremely grateful that, now as a parent, I won’t be passing spiritual toxicity on to my own children.
When I started singing in church my narcissistic parents didn't like that. It's like, not only do I need to have the same belief, I have to behave exactly the same in church too. I can't believe even more than they do, or more enthusiastically than them. As an adult one day my dad said to me: "You don't believe in that." referring to Christianity. I replied "You don't believe it either." and he was rattled. Of course I do believe in a creator despite my science background. But I was stung by him proclaiming something negative and false about me in front of other people.
My parents weren't sophisticated or even social personalities so it's amazing how they did this kind of stuff. There were no how-to books they read to say here, do this. But all they're doing is being themselves so there's really nothing that sophisticated about it.
My dad would beat me on a Friday and then my parents would take me to church on Sunday. Ridiculous.
This was my life growing up! Every bit of it…
you hit the nail on the spot Jerry, this was very painful but so true. sometimes I wonder about my life how I made it this far. seems like a miracle. much appreciated as always for your insights Jerry. 💯
It seems to not matter which religious (or "religious") propositions are in play in this dynamic either. Narcissists will use any system of orthodoxies that can be used to manipulate through fear or shame. For example, political orthodoxies are big ones that are probably going to be the cudgel used on the next generation of kids as society continues to secularize.
My parents are LDS (Mormon) where it's doctrine that we all chose our families before being born. The way that was/is used to counter any challenges to family dynamics or treatment is a total mind fuck....esp when you're whole world view is developed within that mindset both in the home and in the community.
Yep. Reported the abuse to my spiritual leader was told I was obviously ok with the treatment because my soul had picked my parents before I was born.
...religious abuse
Woah I have never heard of that. I’m sorry that happened to you
YES! Mormon Narc parents have literally destroyed mine and siblings lives.
Wow, Jerry. It's like you have met my parents.
They brought me up in the Christian faith. They couldn't handle it when I decided that the Gospel was telling me to vote for different candidates than they do and to not hate the people they hate.
Then they cut me off when I realized I was a closeted member of the LGBTQ community.
Somehow I did not lose my faith through all of that.
I relate well to parents isolating you from other "influences" and making church mandatory. My parents sent me to a Christian school growing up, wouldn't let me listen to any music other than Christian music, and overall just kept me pretty isolated from anything that wasn't Christian. It created an "us" vs "them" mentality that I carried with me as long as I was Christian (I no longer am). They also would punish me if I didn't go to church with them up until I was a legal adult, and even then they would try to guilt me if I didn't. I wouldn't necessarily call my parents full-blown narcissists, but I do think they had some narcissistic traits.
Jerry, this is the one I've been waiting for you to tackle as long as I have been learning from you and finding your channel a couple of years ago.
This is better than I could have dreamed of in terms of how you understand and are able to articulate so beautifully, exactly and more, what I couldn't express or verbalise myself. You have absolutely taken my experience and liberated or emancipated me from the mental frustration and messed up confusion that has cost me a life.
You have just cracked the Enigma Code and laid bare the one thing I couldn't express, which have been the knots in my stomach I couldn't untie.
Thanks so much Jerry.
This is really what has been the missing piece of the jigsaw to sum up my quest for freedom from confusion.
You have empowered me to start the process of moving forward, I am going to copy the link to this offering of yours here today and send it to my friends who will hopefully see the answers to what I could never express so perfectly.
All of this is spot on to my experience with both of my parents.
Cherry pick they don't like a relative unless they can use them to support their point and then my mother goes back twirling and pulling on her hair obsessive compulsive disorder to ingrain the thoughts she continues to find and support her own views
Now that im older, ive just let go. Any Facebook post they post, i just ignore and scroll. There's nothing i can do to change the situation
My mother the malignant narcissist told me that i had to forgive her because im a Christian and the Holy spirit lives inside me. I was so shocked she said it twice.
Because of religion i suffered great paycho emotional abuse which has fckd me up big time. 😢
This is what cult leaders do, too - I was raised in a cult
Thank You. This type here🤪 can make you lose your religion. The one's I know do not keep that basic tenet of loving your neighbor as yourself. In the home, they are unkind, seem to be joyless, and REQUIRE absolute obedience. I believe if you fall for this you add on to your sin count because if they are centralized like they want; it becomes more like idol worship than just obedience, honor, and such.
My former church ruined church for me. I don't think I will ever trust a person whose occupation is pastor. That pastor was the most manipulative person I have ever met...
Omg I have major religion trauma. I can't pass a Catholic Church without having a panic attack. if there is God I would be afraid of him.
Described my family almost to a T.
I just wanted to say thank you so much for this video! It's a really important topic that isn't discussed enough.
Very relatable, is my experience. They push the guilt and shame. Right, surely an extra layer, and for impressionable kids sincerely believing they'll go to hell if they get "it" (could be something incredibly minor) wrong. Forces compliance. Weapanized Bible verses, dreadful. I've come to view this kind of behavior and legitimately blashphemous. Some kids want to do nothing with religion after this experience.
Im going through this right now. My entire family are Jehovah's Witnesses (I used to be a JW)so this video discribes my whole child/ adulthood.. they are encouraged to be this way. I have a 2 year old son with my boyfriend (so we're not married) and because of that "sin", my family not only Shun me but refuse to be around my son.