Logo for Curved Front Desk - What would you charge?
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- What would you charge to design and make this company logo to fit in a curved front desk? The panel has a walnut substrate veneered with book-matched figured English sycamore. The raised panel was removed from the desk for measurements to make a test panel to verify curvature and get final client approval for the logo design. The software used for design was VCarve Pro and TurboCad for the desk curvature 3D model. Double sided machining was used to fit the flat panel to the desk curvature.
A summary of the material costs and time to do this project is at the end of the video.
I am loving the comments so far and think they are pretty much in line with what my client thought it was worth. When I presented the invoice, my clients comment was "Do you have any idea what signage costs?" Clearly, I did not despite my efforts to find out and consider this a learning experience to apply in the future. I admit that I am a complete novice when it comes to pricing custom wood work and signage (I do know how to competitively price engineering goods and services though). My mistake in this was that I figured pricing based on producing a generic widget and not on delivering a custom product tailored to the clients specific need. The good news is that the client is making a donation of bibles to Gideons International to account for the difference (a win by any measure).
Definitely a win!
Kind Sir...even though I do not own a CNC; I can tell that you KNOW what your are talking about; as always. And I love it the same. NONE Finer!
Thank you Pat. It's always good to hear from you. Steve
Nice work Steve. You don't mention how much time was used or number of visits and distance to the site. There are a lot of variables including your relationship with the client and or if you want to be doing this sort of work. So, if you wanted to be bare bones my minimum cost would be $518 plus taxes. Not knowing what your overhead costs are I think you also need to allow something for that. My "gut feel" the sign would be worth at least $600 plus tax. (Recently I did a woodwork job with a small amount v-carving and quoted 2 hours labour. The "client" was surprised by the "arm and a leg" cost. I waited a week before responding and explained the time had been under estimated, there was no material cost because I had got the timber at no cost and there was no machine time. They sent payment immediately!) And having written all this, I've just read your pinned comment and feel good for how well the situation turned out for you and your client who also seems a very decent citizen. Thanks for the video. Cheers, David
Thank you David. I didn't even reach your low water mark on pricing (experience is the best teacher). Living right in the middle of Wally World country, it is really hard to gage peoples reaction to pricing. Years ago, a friend built some solid oak shelves for a co-worker for $100 and she was outraged at the price since she could have purchased a 'bookshelf' at Wally World for less. He only charged her for what the oak cost, nothing for time and shop consumables. She begrudgingly paid him. In his case, no good deed went unpunished.
I have known my client (and I am his client) for 12 years and his brother and parents for at least 25 years . They are all good people. Steve
My way of costing such a project is the following: My shop rate for tooling(cnc/plasma/welding etc) is 100$/hr. Then I have my design rate at 75$/hr , shop task rate 50$/hr (sanding/finishing/packaging) + $ of materials. Then I apply a multiplier like 2x to 3X (for profit margin and all the marketing, packaging materials...). Any customer visit or installation is an additional costs at $75$/hr . In your piece that you created, I would charge between $1,500 to $2000 .
My straight-forward "workshop cost" calculation comes to $425, to which we need to add (as Mark says) "before & after visits" - say $125 - so total "tradesman cost" (i.e. if this was a job that any number of local tradesman could do) is $550 (which pays the suppliers, rent, wages, gasoline, etc.). Then comes the "multiplier" - this is a number by which to multiply the "tradesman cost" to account for your creativity/uniqueness/innovation/reputation/brand value/craftsmanship/artistry/engineering (whatever applies in your field). This number can vary per job - if I'd done this particular job, I'd come in at 2.5 as a multiplier, so the charge would be $550 x 2.5 = $1375
After the job is done, the $550 pays for what you've got today (machinery, premises, etc.). The remaining $850 pays for where you want to go tomorrow.
This works for me 🙃
Thank you Jeremy. Your approach gets it in the ballpark of what my client thought it was worth. Time and materials by itself just didn't cut it on this job. Steve
In addition to the more substantive comments below, you could also check what other companies are charging for similar work. Sometimes you can charge prices that are not necessarily proportional to your costs, if you find the right clients.
Hi Michael. I live in a small town that has 3 cabinet shops and 2 sign shops. The woodworking part of the project would probably have eliminated the sign shops and of the 3 cabinet shops only one has a CNC that may have been able to do this work. You are correct - there is a lot more to pricing than one might think. Steve
Very nice work as usual and good question in the age of CNC since a lot of the execution is machine time. That said, the hours put into design and finish show how that part of our task never really is eliminated. Would enjoy to see your design process sometimes since you are always a 'thinker' and the translation of that to the CNC
Thank you Mike. Being a paid job, this is one of the few times I have actually tracked and itemized time for a project. The results for this project were interesting: the time percentages for this job were Design (26%), non-CNC Shop Work (59%), and CNC Work (15%). The design process would be an interesting subject but, I don't know how I would document my design/thought process so any ideas would be appreciated. Steve
My first question would be if there was discussion at all about an estimated price beforehand. You might have said, but I had to watch parts of this muted. I fabricated and installed ornamental iron railings as a sideline for many years, and I always struggled with the pricing. At the end of the day, the customer is getting the use of a fully equipped shopped and, more importantly, your considerable expertise! I would say that $1200 to 1500 dollars would not be outrageous for something like that. It doesn’t matter that the materials cost was minimal, the finished product is a work of art! After all, this ain’t the dollar store!
Thank you Tom. You are right in the ballpark of what my client thought it was worth. You are correct, this is not the dollar store. Steve
What about any time spent travelling? Did you have to go get materials or were they delivered? Even if it was from inventory at some point you had to get it. And who installed it in the desk did the client pick it up? This is stuff often people often overlook but those hours add up and need to be factored in.
Just based on the above 6.75 hours and $80 in materials $800 plus sales tax.
Thank you Mark. All good points. I had all the materials on hand and the walnut was given to me by a friend years ago. I priced materials at replacement costs plus markup to cover taxes, delivery, and wastage. The client installed it in the desk and his office is about 3 miles from me. The desk is located about 25 miles away. I was able to coordinate my visits at both locations with other personal business so it was not much of a detour. Steve
$1000 is the bare bones - absolute minimum Anything over $5k starting to get really crazy imo. There’s such a range on this stuff. I figure in the cost of the equipment used to make it and the years of experience it takes too. One nice thing about this job is the material is so little $ - so u can’t get too hurt if something went wrong. So u could give a little break for that - but I already figured that into my 1-5k.
Thank you Ryan. I remember Cabinetmaker magazine did annual pricing surveys where shops bid on an identical job. The range of differences between the low and high was often 10 times or greater. I like your way of thinking. Steve
$700 minimum
Thank you William. I didn't reach that mark so will learn from this experience. I should have made this video before presenting the invoice. Steve