Let the light shine! This is the level of scrutiny required for those in elder and deacon positions that should be required everywhere. The flock is supposed to be protected. This is how that happens!
crdbrdbox and Sean, I would encourage you to speak with your Pastor about your concerns. I would also encourage you to look at Hebrews 10:26 and understand that a person falling into this category is not fit to serve the Lord in any capacity. If a person in a leadership position falls like David did, he should "repent" and ask the Lord for forgiveness. True repentance leads to restoration and the Lord will reestablish the individual and make them better than before. The church should follow the leading of the Lord, discipline, love, and restoration.
This makes it sound as if you have to be inviting non-believers over fairly often. In my own case, this would mean me cooking everything as my wife is physically unable to, and what if the church asks these people about how their visit at my house went and they say, "It was ok." I think these 'standards' might be a little stringent. Paul effectively gives very specific qualifications for what kind of man may be an elder. I don't agree that 'having a good reputation with outsiders' should be interpreted that we have unbelieving friends and invite them over a lot.
This sounds pretty extreme. Background checks. The question is does this digging for Christian characteristics also extend to the Christians at the congregation who check the elders and if not then why not.
It is typically the other pastors and elders who are responsible for vetting a new elder. So yes, they definitely should already be fulfilling the qualifications of eldership/paster. If a church has membership then typically those members are asked to get to know the candidate, ask questions and then ultimately vote whether or not the candidate meets the biblical qualifications of eldership.
@silentday4503 Exactly, some of this doesn't sit right with me. Biblically speaking the church should not just vote but have an equal say on who is assessed and selected.
I have a question that I need help with. A deacon at my church looks at porn and I know it's a struggle for him and I don't condemn him because I am fighting this very sin. His brother is the Pastor and he knows he hasn't overcome this sin but he keeps him as a deacon because he told him it would affect him in a worse way if he took away his position. I am just thinking of that verse that says a deacon should be blameless. Is this a valid reason to find another church? Should I ask them about this? I don't want to cause division or strife but it's just something on my mind about how to proceed. Any advice appreciated.
I would leave that church. What it seems like is the pastor is more concerned about his image hence the fact that he is protecting his brother by keeping him on as deacon. The pastor doesn’t seem to be putting his flock first but himself. I would get involved with a church that values integrity and living like Jesus so you can get discipled by someone while can help you get set free from your own addiction.
The head elder of my former congregation just got a DUI....another was charged with criminal mischief & property damage & the 3rd was just charged with all sorts of illegal hunting hunting fines....would this disqualify them to serve as elders based on scriptual qualifications? I have no respect for them personally 🙃
All 3 of those are different situations and need to be assessed independently to make sure the facts are clear. Elders are not perfect, but they are held to a higher standard since they are leading the flock. People do make mistakes and a good church would administer loving discipline to see them restored, if they have a contrite heart. If they are unrepentant then they can't lead.
Our elder was just arrested and charged with "sexual battery". Still an elder still on the church's website and the congregation can't ask questions because the family has requested privacy. 🤔
Most often it's the other pastors and elders of the church oversee the "vetting" process and then if your church has membership then those members would vote on whether to have him as their elder.
I'm not sure about "friends" technically, but an elder should have non-Christian people they are pouring into and trying to reach for Christ in obedience to what Jesus called us to do ie The Great Commission (end of Matthew before his ascension).
It is not so much about validation as qualification. A person in leadership must be qualified for that job, any job. 1 Timothy and Titus 1 lay out qualifications to be an elder and they are making sure that person meets those qualifications.
Can a “Man” who is also a Father who has permitted sexual abuse in his family due to wanting his “lifestyle” be an elder ? This is a man who has kicked out his so called daughter who was molested by his nephew for 8 years because the daughter couldn’t meet his expectations. I believe there great division between unresolved pain and lies. Should he be an Elder?
I understand why the church needs to be guided by people who are strong in faith, but this all seems very judgemental. A devoted Christian may not always look in the way that you have described. What if they don’t have a home to invite people to? What if they are not married. Jesus made company with the lowest of the low, prostitutes and beggars. Many people hated Jesus and he was condemned in his life time. If you had asked the community about him they may have not said good things. Keep humble my friend.
They are talking about qualifications of an elder that are listed in the Bible, not qualifications to be a good Christian. Although some things intertwine. It’s not judge mental at all. It’s scriptural.
Jesus and Paul wouldn’t have been qualified to be elders because their roles were very different, everybody has different roles in the church, none is greater than the other.
If your a brotherhood of believers you should also show trust for one another by not doing an investigation after you have already accepted a fellow believer .Removing them for things you lord over them is rediculous. He's your recruit and now your gonna give up on em because you got it all together uh? God wants cheerful givers how do you make anyone be cheerful out of that sort of leadership? You see how your rules just maintain a facade so you can justify your lordship on fellow believers and the congregation. Wake up your not competing are you? So then make disciples and let God move them toward good works, not you! See that's why people and society won't trust you because you don't give any trust. Your not lords and your Gospel ain't good news because it's not the real Gospel you possess with your leadership so it seems. Go back to the beginning and remember when Jesus overturned the money changers. It was a symbol of how the temple was ripping people off. Jesus only objected to the Pharisees because they said they weren't blind and he said that's why they were blind because they were hypocrites. I'm not anyone special in your eyes and I'm not seeing your whole church mechanics I get that. But if you run God's house with that much righteousness the apostles them selves couldn't attend. Go back to the basics Let the Janitor serve on your board or a homeless person then you'll be blessed two fold. Let the first be last and if their dumb deaf and blind your doing good. I'm no mother Theresa but hopefully you see how a dictatorship is a waste of time. Maybe too many College grads have robbed the very Word you say you hold dear and is that why the sheep are astray and corrupt?Maybe? Blind leading the blind. Start over and realize you've put out the very ones God takes under his wings. I don't dislike people I dislike wolves in sheep's clothing for if you keep traveling that path you'll become a circus of men with words from a Holy book you won't ever understand. Now I speak blessings over your Church and hope you can start to lead and love one another I have an open heart and I know it's better to forgive one another's debts as we forgive our debtors. And maybe some advice would be spread the word that our Fathers mercy's are made brand new each day. He chooses the weak things to confound the learned. Sorry for hurting your pride. God bless!!
Let the light shine! This is the level of scrutiny required for those in elder and deacon positions that should be required everywhere. The flock is supposed to be protected. This is how that happens!
crdbrdbox and Sean, I would encourage you to speak with your Pastor about your concerns. I would also encourage you to look at Hebrews 10:26 and understand that a person falling into this category is not fit to serve the Lord in any capacity. If a person in a leadership position falls like David did, he should "repent" and ask the Lord for forgiveness. True repentance leads to restoration and the Lord will reestablish the individual and make them better than before. The church should follow the leading of the Lord, discipline, love, and restoration.
may we be faithful to what our Lord has taught us
I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
- John 17:14
Amen. Thanks for sharing!!
This makes it sound as if you have to be inviting non-believers over fairly often. In my own case, this would mean me cooking everything as my wife is physically unable to, and what if the church asks these people about how their visit at my house went and they say, "It was ok." I think these 'standards' might be a little stringent. Paul effectively gives very specific qualifications for what kind of man may be an elder. I don't agree that 'having a good reputation with outsiders' should be interpreted that we have unbelieving friends and invite them over a lot.
This sounds pretty extreme. Background checks. The question is does this digging for Christian characteristics also extend to the Christians at the congregation who check the elders and if not then why not.
It is typically the other pastors and elders who are responsible for vetting a new elder. So yes, they definitely should already be fulfilling the qualifications of eldership/paster. If a church has membership then typically those members are asked to get to know the candidate, ask questions and then ultimately vote whether or not the candidate meets the biblical qualifications of eldership.
@silentday4503 Exactly, some of this doesn't sit right with me. Biblically speaking the church should not just vote but have an equal say on who is assessed and selected.
I have a question that I need help with. A deacon at my church looks at porn and I know it's a struggle for him and I don't condemn him because I am fighting this very sin. His brother is the Pastor and he knows he hasn't overcome this sin but he keeps him as a deacon because he told him it would affect him in a worse way if he took away his position. I am just thinking of that verse that says a deacon should be blameless. Is this a valid reason to find another church? Should I ask them about this? I don't want to cause division or strife but it's just something on my mind about how to proceed. Any advice appreciated.
I would leave that church. What it seems like is the pastor is more concerned about his image hence the fact that he is protecting his brother by keeping him on as deacon. The pastor doesn’t seem to be putting his flock first but himself. I would get involved with a church that values integrity and living like Jesus so you can get discipled by someone while can help you get set free from your own addiction.
The head elder of my former congregation just got a DUI....another was charged with criminal mischief & property damage & the 3rd was just charged with all sorts of illegal hunting hunting fines....would this disqualify them to serve as elders based on scriptual qualifications? I have no respect for them personally 🙃
This would disqualify the church!
All 3 of those are different situations and need to be assessed independently to make sure the facts are clear. Elders are not perfect, but they are held to a higher standard since they are leading the flock. People do make mistakes and a good church would administer loving discipline to see them restored, if they have a contrite heart. If they are unrepentant then they can't lead.
Our elder was just arrested and charged with "sexual battery". Still an elder still on the church's website and the congregation can't ask questions because the family has requested privacy. 🤔
Who is "we"? Other elders or preacher orsomeone in congregation?
Most often it's the other pastors and elders of the church oversee the "vetting" process and then if your church has membership then those members would vote on whether to have him as their elder.
good point, is he him very self assesed.
Whoa. Backchecking.
What if you have no non-Christian friends?
I'm not sure about "friends" technically, but an elder should have non-Christian people they are pouring into and trying to reach for Christ in obedience to what Jesus called us to do ie The Great Commission (end of Matthew before his ascension).
In order to serve the Lord as an elder , someone in the world must validate me? Where is that in scripture?
It is not so much about validation as qualification. A person in leadership must be qualified for that job, any job. 1 Timothy and Titus 1 lay out qualifications to be an elder and they are making sure that person meets those qualifications.
Can a “Man” who is also a Father who has permitted sexual abuse in his family due to wanting his “lifestyle” be an elder ? This is a man who has kicked out his so called daughter who was molested by his nephew for 8 years because the daughter couldn’t meet his expectations. I believe there great division between unresolved pain and lies. Should he be an Elder?
Cant believe Desiring God is affiliated with this video. Good thing the Lord knows who the true elders in His church are.
I understand why the church needs to be guided by people who are strong in faith, but this all seems very judgemental. A devoted Christian may not always look in the way that you have described. What if they don’t have a home to invite people to? What if they are not married. Jesus made company with the lowest of the low, prostitutes and beggars. Many people hated Jesus and he was condemned in his life time. If you had asked the community about him they may have not said good things. Keep humble my friend.
They are talking about qualifications of an elder that are listed in the Bible, not qualifications to be a good Christian. Although some things intertwine. It’s not judge mental at all. It’s scriptural.
Jesus and Paul wouldn’t have been qualified to be elders because their roles were very different, everybody has different roles in the church, none is greater than the other.
If your a brotherhood of believers you should also show trust for one another by not doing an investigation after you have already accepted a fellow believer .Removing them for things you lord over them is rediculous. He's your recruit and now your gonna give up on em because you got it all together uh? God wants cheerful givers how do you make anyone be cheerful out of that sort of leadership? You see how your rules just maintain a facade so you can justify your lordship on fellow believers and the congregation. Wake up your not competing are you? So then make disciples and let God move them toward good works, not you! See that's why people and society won't trust you because you don't give any trust. Your not lords and your Gospel ain't good news because it's not the real Gospel you possess with your leadership so it seems. Go back to the beginning and remember when Jesus overturned the money changers. It was a symbol of how the temple was ripping people off. Jesus only objected to the Pharisees because they said they weren't blind and he said that's why they were blind because they were hypocrites. I'm not anyone special in your eyes and I'm not seeing your whole church mechanics I get that. But if you run God's house with that much righteousness the apostles them selves couldn't attend. Go back to the basics Let the Janitor serve on your board or a homeless person then you'll be blessed two fold. Let the first be last and if their dumb deaf and blind your doing good. I'm no mother Theresa but hopefully you see how a dictatorship is a waste of time. Maybe too many College grads have robbed the very Word you say you hold dear and is that why the sheep are astray and corrupt?Maybe? Blind leading the blind. Start over and realize you've put out the very ones God takes under his wings. I don't dislike people I dislike wolves in sheep's clothing for if you keep traveling that path you'll become a circus of men with words from a Holy book you won't ever understand. Now I speak blessings over your Church and hope you can start to lead and love one another I have an open heart and I know it's better to forgive one another's debts as we forgive our debtors. And maybe some advice would be spread the word that our Fathers mercy's are made brand new each day. He chooses the weak things to confound the learned. Sorry for hurting your pride. God bless!!
Sounds like a cult possibly. At the very least extremely judgmental.
It is "judgmental" in the sense of judging if someone is worth being put in a leadership position. No one wants a big hypocrite leading them.