Is the Star Trek Klingon Mek'leth Knife/Sword GOOR OR BAD? Better or worse than a Bat'leth?
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- Опубліковано 22 січ 2023
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Is the Star Trek Klingon Mek'leth knife a good or bad design? How does it compare to the Bat'leth, and what are its real world historical inspirations?
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For an Insight into the "hook" of the Blade, Check pout the Kujang - The Traditional Blade of the Ethnic Sundanese People of West Java, Indonesia
you should do the Andorian ushaan-tor and Vulcan lirpa
That game is trash. Its a cookie cutter base builder game with a star trek texture pack over the top. trash af. stop shilling crap
Nobody tell you that the title of the video is .... GOOR or Bad ?
Nothing in the galaxy can withstand a double-fist-with-laced-fingers to the upper back.
The best weapon against a Klingon is to say " I'm here to challenge D'gor. Son of whatever" . That's a weapon that pierces the soul.
A Brave Ferengi, who would have thought.
@@bartonbrevis3831 Garak would have thought. After all one Ferengi wanted to kill himself with the assistance of Garak.
aka Vicious Mockery in D&D.
@@chengkuoklee5734 It's worse than mockery. Far worse. It's the heart of Klingon society itself. It's outright disrespect.
Utter dismissiveness. No Klingon is invulnerable.
It dawned on me while watching this - a bat’leth might be not only for dueling and ceremony. The bat’leth could also be similar to a naval cutlass: not something you wear and carry most of the time, but rather something stored in racks all over the ship that crew members can grab quickly to either form boarding parties, or to defend against them.
The targ hide wrapped handle feels like at one point in Klingon history a great warrior improvised a handle wrap from a targ he had just killed and then used that mek'leth to win a great battle. And then all the Klingons were like, "This is the way." And they all started using targ hide wraps.
Why did he use Targ hide? Well, it was probably just whatever came to hand and he didn't think about it much. But his blade becomes the legendary slayer of whoever, and people want to be like that so they copy.
And once Klingons are in space, the link to their history feels more important to them, a link to their homeworld that is lightyears away.
I mean, there's no particular reason why we should still wrap sword hilts in leather or cloth today. I'm sure we could find a superior composite material. But leather works perfectly well and that's the traditional way to do it, so why not?
That is very much a Klingon response. Especially if you read the book "Kah'less", which gives a (beta canon at best, admittedly) history of the Unforgettable's life that paints a very different picture of him than the stories tell. But, Klingons will be Klingons. (No spoilers.)
I’d wrap a handle with the hide of a dog if I had one and it died.
It would be an excellent way to honor the animal and continue it’s service.
This knife origin Was probably a broken piece of kaless crashed spaceship and he used the targ hide to keep from cutting his own hand.
@@derekmendoza5965 Kah'less lived before the discovery of flight. He & his army rode on the backs of a tamed animal, using bladed weapons to conquer the diverse Klingon tribes & forge the first true empire.
Kah'less is also credited with inventing the bat'leth, though not in the mythic way described by later generations. If his men all had bat'leths as part of their arsenal, then the mek'leth was probably created by someone who didn't want to be conquered!
A friend of mine once called the Mek’leth a “Klingon Bowie Knife”, and I think that’s a great description of its role and function. Take off instance the US Civil War. Many soldiers and officers had swords, but when you get up close and personal, a Bowie knife will serve you just as well if not better, and they’re easier to carry as a standard sidearm alongside your rifle or carbine.
Very few soldiers in the Civil War ever got that close.
The issue with sabers in US civil war was that nobody used them due to not just being issued unsharpened while cavalrymen received no sharpening implements, they usually weren't even beveled lol
I'd give you a source or two but I think there's even a video on the topic on UA-cam done by a reenactor citing period sources so you can just search "saber in american civil war" (or perhaps problems with saber in civil war?)
Anyway I'd take a knife or even a club over a sabre without a bevel any time
Some southern troops were issued a Bowie knife early in the war but the soldiers discarded them as they never used them and they soon discovered that 90% of that war was walking around (maneuvering) so they dumped any excess weight.
@@nonamesplease6288 I have no idea where you got that from but it is incorrect. The bayonet charge was a standard tactic which both sides deployed on numerous occasions. The overall percentage of troops who actually took part in such charges may seem low, but a significant number of troops in any war are support and never intended to see combat. But the US Civil War featured frequent hand-to-hand combat. All cavalry battles were hand-to-hand, right?
@@nonamesplease6288
They could only get off 3 shots/min. Closing distance was the way to nullify any numerical advantage your enemy may have.
One of my favourite details in the extended universe stuff is that the Mekleth was developed after they started with space travel, for close quarters use in ship corridors.
I think I'd prefer a cutlass and a small buckler in tight passageways.
But... The Klingons have buildings, right? And they love a war, so they have obviously fought in cities and castles and bunkers for centuries... And they went all that time without ever feeling the need for a special weapon, but once they start walking around their spaceships they suddenly decide that this is a big problem?
Also, why the hell would they invent a slashy-choppy weapon for tight quarters where you can't swing it? They all have regular knives already, which are way better for jabbing and grappling.
Also, I agree that a cutlassy type sword and a shield is a good idea - A cut-and-thrust sword with enough finesse to reward skill, but not for dueling.
And a shield both for fighting and also for general survival - It can protect you from explosions and fire and can block enemies from entering while your mates do something aggrivating to the engines.
In a very old Game now, the mek'leth was shown to be the weapon of choice of one of the hand of fire, which were kahless's generals. The others were the gintak spear and the klingon saber with a shield, putting the weapons sort of way before space travel.
Dear Mr. Easton for nearly 39 years of life I have felt like an outcast for my love of history, archeology, and Star Wars and Star Trek. I adore your channel because it's great to see intelligent, mature, intellectuals love this stuff too, and combine the fun with the history and culture in a well thought manner. Thank you for your channel, although I admit I'd love more combat and dueling history of the French Renaissance and a video on the Vulcan Lirpa.
The space suit scene you reference was actually in the movie Star Trek: First Contact, where the antagonists were the Borg. Worf's mekleth turned out to be quite effective, since the Borg were very good at adapting to high-tech weapons like phasers, but for some reason could not adapt to much simpler weapons like blades (Worf's mekleth) or bullets (Picard's holographic tommy gun). Makes one wonder why Starfleet security did not use archaic weapons more often when fighting the Borg.
There's a DS9 episode where they talk about the development of the TR-116 rifle, which uses a chemically-propelled projectile. It was initially intended for use in environments where energy weapons wouldn't work, but there's no reason to believe it wouldn't have been effective against the Borg.
I believe they would eventually adapt to low tech weapons, adding armour to the drones would be easy enough. The thing about them adapting to energy weapons "faster" is they already were equipped with shielding to withstand it, they just had to adapt to the specific frequency or energy type of the weapon.
Simply put, The Borg don't care about individual drones and the negligible losses due to kinetic weapons to warrant adaption. Cost benefit would be to big.
Line line bias.
Ya I remember that movie. Also a Thomson machine gun was used effectively in the hologram deck against the Borg. I'm speculating they were going for the idea that an out dated technology still has relevance similar to how the show "battle star galactica" had a spaceship that survived a cyber attack due to it being so old that the hardware and software weren't compatible with the attacking virus.
@@seanlavelle344 This is my strategy for avoiding malware online. Good luck infecting my Commodore. 😅
Given that Worf mostly favors a type of Klingon martial art, that is based loosely on our real world Tai chi ch'üan.
Worf has also been seen holding his Mek'leth in a reverse grip along the underside of the fore-arm and punching with the pomel/lower guard blades. The meditation/combat style favors sweeping arm movement that would fit the Mek'leth well.
The reverse grip is a very effective fighting method if one is conditioned for it. The Mongols used it extensively as it is very good for both horse mounted and close range combat, which I suspect any self respecting Klingon would have preferred.
The Klingons were occupied in their pre-warp period by a species known as the Hur'q, roughly the 14th century by our time. (As I recall the name simply means "outsider" in Klingon.)
My understanding would be that most/all of the Klingon Melee weapons have their origins in the period of the Hur'q occupation ang the Klingons rebellion against them. While there is very little canonical information about the Hur'q beyond these basic facts, various "extended universe" sources describe them as "insectoid".
I don't know about you, but for me both the Bath'leth and the Mek'leth makes a lot of sense for fighting an opponent that has an exoskeleton rather an endoskeleton.
...Probably not for fighting creatures with multiple limbs though. Or for fighting creatures that were either much larger or much smaller than humans.
It's also a bit weird to me that someone saw an enemy with an exoskeleton and apparently didn't consider thin, stabby blades.
The mek'leth is better suited for Klingon warfare. The Klingons are shock troopers who rapidly close in on their foe and seek to overwhelm them with brutality and firepower. As we see in DS9, the Klingons love boarding actions, and while the hand disruptor would still be the primary weapon in these situations, a large knife/short sword would be the ideal weapon to pair with a "handgun". Use the disruptor to suppress the foe, rapidly close in on them, and engage with the melee weapon, and just like in real life, the pistol could then be used to parry/block incoming attacks or be used to bludgeon the foe (and since this isn't a single shot pistol, you could still fire at close range, or use it to suppress a foe at longer range immediately after you have dispatched a foe in the melee)
If they paired their boarding with energy disruption fields, then suddenly you are surrounded by armed Klingons with a dead weight phaser. A truly deadly combination that would make them almost guarantee a win vs most starfleet installations not ready for melee.
No, boarding is a terrible idea. Modern special forces fight up close all the time, and they use guns, because guns work just fine up close but also at a distance, and also against lost of people.
Beyond that, how are you boarding? And why? If you already shot their shields down, why not just shoot them some more? Why risk your guys lives by parking the ship and telling them to hurry up before any more enemies show up?
Even if you are boarding, what do you get out of it? Are you trying to steal the ship? Maybe, but why are you trying to steal an armed military ship with a military crew? Why not just shoot it more?
If you are raiding a military installation to get intel or whatever, you really need to use stealth not force. And that's because the whole space station can put forcefields just about anywhere and also turn off the oxygen. It's a military station, they really will notice when you start shooting and screaming.
Knives and similar are still super useful, especially for stealthy sneaky missions. They don't have energy signatures and don't make noise. They can be used for all kinds of useful purposes, but getting into a fist fight with a burley Starfleet crewman who is pointing a phaser at you is a bad idea.
The fact that Starfleet don't issue melee weapons to crew is perhaps a hint they aren't super useful, or at least that boarding isn't a big problem. And why would it be? Even if we assume that Klingons just love to board stuff, literally everything else on this starship exists to stop that happening and if literally every avenue to prevent this has failed then you have way way way way bigger problems than not having a melee weapon to hand. If the shields, weapons, engines, security fields, transporters and door locks have all ceased working then your death is imminent no matter what.
Melee combat is more heroic and exciting, and we all love dem klingons. But let's be real... A big knife is useful, even in space, but it's obviously not going to make much difference to the outcome of a fight.
Even in universes where melee combat makes more sense in cannon, like 40k, a big reason for that is that the primary combatants are literally human-tanks who are capable of a sickening degree of violence.
A Klingon fancies his chances against a human, right? And if he has a weapon, maybe against a couple of humans at the same time. But not against ten armed humans. Not a hundred armed humans. Space Marines are built for those kind of fights. Your weapons plink off them, and they will punch a hole clean through your torso even without a weapon. They will happily just kill you all, it just takes time.
@Lost Alone
Yes, modern special forces primarily use firearms, however they also have more training and experience in melee combat, and they make far greater use of melee and hand to hand combat than the infantry do.
Boarding actions are not a terrible idea, especially if your doctrine is centered around that. It is always more preferable to capture an enemy ship than to destroy it, regardless of the time period or the technological level of development, in fact the more complex the technology, the greater the incentive is to capture it that way you may learn more about your enemy and their capabilities. The Klingons are a warrior race, for them boarding an enemy vessel or station will always be more preferable than destroying it in ship-to-ship combat, the greater risk and opportunity to confront the enemy face to face is what Klingons enjoy. Klingons do not have the same consideration for casualties like others do, the Klingons EXPECT to die in the line of duty, it is the only honorable way for a Klingon to end their life.
Starfleet is by far the most incompetent military in all of science fiction, simply because they do not view themselves as a military. The fact that Starfleet doesn't issue melee weapons to their soldiery should not be taken as evidence that melee weapons are useless, rather it should be added to the mountain of evidence showing Starfleet to be incompetent in martial matters. In fact, the Klingons, Jem'Hadar, Cardassians, and Remans all using melee weapons should be taken as evidence to show that they are still useful: Jem'Hadar and Remans are both shown using bayonets (Jem'Hadar are also shown using two handed axes), Cardassians are shown using daggers, and as we all know, the Klingons have a variety of melee weapons that they use, and all of these factions have more combat experience than Starfleet.
Lastly, the primary combatants in 40k, for human armies, are not "literal human tanks". Space marines fight 1% of the Imperium's wars, and hardly any chaos warbands have heretic astartes in their ranks. Almost all fighting is conducted by normal humans, not gene-enhanced warriors.
In short, you're wrong.
Omg essay club in here
Special forces do train hand to hand combat more... But that is to do sneaky things, subdue prisoners and defend themselves in extremis, not to charge enemies and stab them.
And seriously, boarding actions ARE a terrible idea. The reason why boarding was historically attempted was because ships were very hard to sink. Before cannons you couldn't reliably sink ships in battle at all. It's easy(ish) to repair a ship, put a new crew on it and send it back out. To deny the ship to the eney, you either have to burn it or take physical control of it.
But this is Star Trek where you have awesome particle beams that you can fire lots of. Nice and simple.
Even for the Klingons, killing the enemy is always honorable. They happily take ship kills all the time. We see them doing it plenty. Because they do actually fight in battles, big battles where someone else is also shooting at your target and doesn't know you've boarded it. And it's fairly common that damaged ships just explode anyway, or have no life support, or are full of plasma fires or toxic gasses. Why would you build a doctrine about inserting your limited crew into enemy ships when that is an awesome way to lose all your guys? Again, this isn't 40k, where ships have tens of thousands of crew.
Starfleet do consider themselves to be a military - They are a NAVY not an army though. Modern sailors don't wear sidearms either. Because the ship does the work for you, and having random guns and knives everywhere is more trouble than its worth. If you need to go onto an enemy vessel, you muster up a master guns and a boarding party, who go to the armaments locker and get tooled up at that point. But they get rifles and pistols, not knives and swords. And they don't really board ships that could put up a fight. They board pirates or contrabands, they don't board enemies. Why? Because the ship has missiles and guns and torpedoes for active enemy combatants. Teleporting onto the bridge sounds alright, but it's only fractionally faster than hitting the ship with a Harpoon, and you don't have to deal with the fact that the other sailors on the ship are likely to be unhappy about your boarders.
If you have transporters available to do stuff, almost anything else is better than boarding. For example, transport the enemy crew into space. Transport a bomb onto the bridge directly, or some kind of incapacitating agent. Transport critical parts of the ship out of the ship.
The fact that other species use melee weapons is purely cultural - And only the Klingons actually seem to seek out melee combat. But even then, the Jem'Hadar are cloned shock troopers who do have bayonets but strongly prefer to shoot and mostly stab people to make sure they are dead. And the Cardis carry knives (same as modern soldiers do) but they always prefer to shoot people where possible.
Space Marines are the primary MELEE combatants of the 41st millenium. The Guard shoot stuff, as a rule. They even have close range weapons like shotguns and pistols for shipboard situations. People like the Tanith carry war knives, but even then that's because they do sneaky stealthy things, not because they just charge headlong at the enemy. 40k does do a bit of boarding actions, but it's largely Chaos and Orks who do it, forces that need to steal your ship to bolster their forces. And also factions that really don't care if they live or die.
I think I'm right in saying the last time that a military ship was captured by another military was in 1912, at the Battle of Tsushima. However, even then that was a battle that was definitively decided by Japanese gunnery, not by boarding to take a prize.
Your whole answer boils down to "Boarding is cool, so it surely makes sense". And I agree that it's super cool. Deliberately putting yourself in harms way to face the enemy yourself is cool. But this is fantasy.
When al-Quaeda attacked US Navy assets, they used suicide bombs.
One thing I don't think you got into much is that this would also be more useful for things you might need in a survival situation. If I happened to be crash landed on a planet it seems to me the Mek'leth would be more useful for simple things like cutting through brush or chopping firewood or even digging a hole than a bat'leth and I could still use it to defend myself.
I don't have any deep knowledge, but wouldn't that be a good match for the kukri? So there is an implicit reference to the non-combat possibilities..
@@davebell4917 i think the implication was there. I just think it was worth making explicit because the point he was making was largely that it was a more practical weapon.
They do make amazing machetes. Forged one a few years ago for the hell of it and it's my main camp/tree/yard tool now.
Just be sure you don't try to use a mek'leth for too much in survival purposes. It certainly wouldn't be a good skinning knife because it lacks a small enough blade for that.
If we were being sincere about space travel, you'd be lucky to end up on a planet that's readily Earth-like in enough ways.
One glaring issue with many sci-fis is that they prefer to avoid using EV suits in all the ways that they should, which would be fundamentally important for space travel and planetary expedition. It always struck me as asinine that we get characters wearing parkas and snow hats, when they should have EV suits. A planet cannot be colder than the vacuum of space. An EV suit would also have excellent heat resistance for sun scorched worlds, as they also have to resist raw solar exposure; consider that the astronauts on the moon were in suits that had to resist incredibly lethal temperatures, around 200F. So ultimately, you should hope you don't need a mek'leth for wood chopping, because that would mean your suit is shot, and if your suit is shot, you'll have a LOT of issues to consider while on an alien planet.
It's very fortunate that Star Trek inhabits a version of our galaxy full of "M-Class planets" that have perfectly breathable air, standard gravity, drinkable water, and life that somehow consists of plants and animals. You could end up on an "Earth-like planet" that doesn't have plants, as that type of lifeform my be unique to Earth, so what would you burn then? What if the air has just enough volatile gases to ignite dangerous? The list goes on.
Obviously a vast majority of planets would be entirely inhospitable and you wouldn't be able to survive without an EV suit.
Since the only survival question on those is how much air your suit has it becomes a fairly boring conversation. So, it makes sense to me to limit the conversation to situations where survival gear would have any value.
As for skinning an animal or gutting a fish It's certainly not going to be the ideal tool, and the bat'leth may actually work better if you're strong enough to use it efficiently because the tip is actually thinner. That said, it also matters how sharp the weapon is. A razor sharp mek'leth is probably better for skinning than some of the dull hunting knives I've tried to use.
One think about the Mek'leth we see in DS9 is that it is specifically Worf's weapon. And Worf is himself a traditionalist even for a klingon as a reaction to being raised by humans for part of his childhood. I would not be at all surprised to see other characters with more comfortable grips.
I do like how Worf is effectively the ships provost, responsible for crew safety and security but he's straight up murdered several people in that time.
Yeah but they were all bad.
Not to mention he told his kid that he was "going to get a packet of syntharettes" and signed up for a 5 year mission patrolling the neutral zone whilst he was out.
And….keeping people safe requires some other people to die sometimes.
Keeping people safe also means getting wrecked constantly as the supposed group tank
Hey, sometimes you have to kill bad guys when you're in the security business.
This was great. For your next Klingon themed video, I would appreciate it if you could investigate whether or not prune juice would meet the necessary criteria to be considered a warrior's drink.
Only if you drink it out of the skull of your enemies. And if anyone says anything, tell them the skull is the last guy who said prune juice isn't for warriors.
@@lostalone9320
A warrior’s cup!
As I recall, Klingon metabolism gets drunk on prune juice. So it would have the same place in their culture that famous "manly" Earth drinks have in our culture.
(Granted, most Klingons never had access to prune juice, but Worf is surely generalizing from bloodwine.)
Ale and mead, drunk by knights and vikings.
Whiskey, drunk by Old West gunslingers.
Bourbon, drunk by hard-boiled 1930's private eyes.
Chianti, drunk by the more refined class of cannibalistic serial killers.
Being fair, only Worf considered it to be that out of his personal preference. No other klingon has ever taken to it, with a few episodes of DS9 even calling attention to how odd it was for Worf to like it.
While I'm sure your point is a joke, if one were to sincerely pursue it, there's not enough information to suggest its worth among klingons. It's solely Worf's preference.
The batleth is also typically used in narrow ship corridors, making it too much longer might make it less effective in that role. And ancient batleths are often quite a bit longer, and with straighter points, so that tracks.
Actually there is a really similar weapon you missed. You mentioned how much naga tribal hatchet varied in shape historically in a recent video. Well, some naga tribe use a knife which is esentially this. It's very short like the Mek'leth, has a forward curve, a hook at the bottom of the square-ish tip and a handguard!
I'm guessing you mean the Kuki Dao.
Looked this stuff up and the similarities are incredible.
@@Celebmacil that's one name for it yes
Yes , it was featured in Forged in Fire
i think the Mek'leth looks like a can or bottle opener.
my problem with this thing is, depending on the picture, the handguard looks like it has a sharp edge on the inside and that would be ... counterproductive to put it mildly :)
The edged handguard and sharp pommel would make carrying it more difficult too. I'd rather have them blunt I think.
Worst part is that the Klingons are almost universally fighting unarmored people, so a strike with a blunt pommel/guard is almost exactly as damaging as one with a bit of a point.
I think the Klingons want the edges everywhere because being cut by it is a worry that they would consider only something relevant to a weak human or Romulan lol
I massively agree! 🙂 I've long felt the Mek'leth is the better designed weapon, for largely the reasons you list. If I were to improve it, I'd fix the grip, shrink the size of the knucklebow, and possibly put brass knuckle-like spikes on it instead of a flat edge. It's small enough that you won't get a great angle on the cutting edge anyway, so may as well just make it spiky. I want to make one at my shop at some point. The way it effectively combines a bowie knife with a tomahawk into something that functions pretty well as both is very impressive.
Also, Skall's old mek'leth video is how I got into the UA-cam sword community, so this is coming around full circle. 🙂
I think it fits perfectly in the space ship setting as a version of a Cutlass for close quarter combat.
You should look at the Lirpa the Vulcan weapon Kirk and Spock though each other with in the classic episode Amok Time.
real world counterpart would be a monk spade
Makes me think of a monk's spade. Which yes, please talk about that Matt! I think it was in World War Z that it (the spade) was considered a really good weapon against zombies, since you can keep them away with one end and behead them with the other as needed.
I could be wrong here, but from memory Michael Dorn took an offcut from one of the sound stages to the arts department and said 'this looks like it could be a Klingon weapon, what do you guys think?' and the Mek'leth evolved from there. If that's the case it's functionality and resemblance to any real-world weapons is a bit of a happy accident.
This video, has brought GLORY to you and your house.
Excellent breakdown, explanation, and technical clarification!
This Trekkie is always happy when Star Trek is the subject of a conversation.
You should do reaction videos from Media that dipects weapons. Like Elden Ring Boss fight reactions would be cool. :) I just saw your IGN videos and thought they were enjoyable. Your reactions are good.
In one of your photos, it seems like the hand guard is sharpened on the inside - the side towards the fingers. That would be stupid.
Nice video, as always. 👍
Watching Worf fight with the mek' leth I noticed that he uses in reverse grip quite a bit as well.
I was hoping there'd be a comment mentioning this. I might not be remembering 100% accurately, but he seems to favour the reverse grip for frenetic fights in confined spaces, using the forward grip when there's room to move or his opponent has a longer weapon.
I would love there to be an episode where they time travel and meet some ancient Klingon and when he sees the Bat'leth and Mek'leth he responds with: "Are you still using that crap? I just used hide on the grip because I was in a hurry and didn't have time to get a proper grip fitted!! Bloody hell, you telling me that in 4000 years time we still haven't realized that a spear is a far more useful weapon?!?"
So like us looking at the weapons of the Imperium in Warhammer 40k?
@@amh9494 Yeah, although to be fair, 40k is a Fantasy universe, not sci-fi, which Star Trek does claim to be. Any human civilization 38000 years into the future would not be using chainswords or bolt pistols, since we don't even use them now, we just drone bomb stuff... But that doesn't make for interesting miniature wargame of course... ;-)
@@Kholdaimon the Tau are pretty straight realistic futuristic fighting style... But that makes sense with the in world logic.
I think that was Warf on the exterior of Enterprise from First Contact, not DS9.
Ah, my mistake.
One thing to remember when talking about the weight and difficulty of wielding both the Klingon weapons is that Klingons are said to be quite a bit stronger than humans. Thus what is an awkward weight to humans or awkward weight distribution for us to wield one-handed is likely well within reason for a Klingon to handle without much difficulty. This obviously more applies to the Bat'leth, which is constantly complained about being "heavy" for humans, but it was not a weapon designed with humans in mind, but the physically stronger Klingons.
you know if you want a forward curving blade with a hand guard the Greek kopis or the iberian falcata. I should also point out that it's not uncommon for the Filipinos to put handguardds on the ginunting or indeed to see antique kukris with tulwar hilts or in some cases even the Indian style basket hilts.
I think there may be direct equivalencies between the use of primary weapons aboard starships and the choice of a bat'leth/mek'leth.
In Trek lore what we might call 'fighters' are almost never used in combat except in desperation by doomed insurgents like the Maquis. This is because the literally faster-than-light targetting processors aboard battleships and battlecruiser like all the Enterprises never miss with phaser fire. Attack and defence doctrine is purely a question of scale--heavyweights slugging it out. Sufficient screens to stop a phaser hit, sufficient phaser capacity to eventually overcome the screens. Plus, although we rarely see it depicted all capital ships of the Starfleet can engage multiple enemies at once with their various positions of phaser array. It would be very difficult to swarm a large Federation ship. The question of the larger-than-fighter but still not capital ships of the Jem'Hadar is slightly different since they also have a definite edge in technology.
The Dominion to one side I think that type of engagement is directly analogous to the bat'leth. Yes you can be a Dahar Master like Kor or Kirk, but you can still be shot by Indiana Jones in the 24th century from ten feet away--and depending on the weapon or its setting completely disintegrated! However it might be possible to close in to a combatant by guile or sheer chance and not be 'Destruct B'ed into atoms. At which point the bat'leth is totally useless whereas a mek'leth can still have its place. We see exactly this in the scene from 'First Contact' outside on the primary deflector dish that you mention. In that moment we find whatever traditional material it is that Worf's mek'leth is forged from is more than capable of lopping off Borg body-parts when he is inside the angle of fire from whatever type of directed energy weapon the Borg prefer.
However... At least two thumbs up alone for setting 'Discovery' and its unfortunate progeny to one side... Hopefully we will _all_ be able to do that soon, followed shortly afterwards by forgetting them entirely!
Qapla ! I must say that I'm impressed; you made research into actual show, going as far as quoting characters from universe when they were talking about Mek'leth. One thing you got wrong; Worf was wearing space suit and was using Mek'leth during the events of "First Contact" - and he killed Borg drone with it...which is relevant considering that you mentioned that Borg is n the game you were advertising. 😚And it also shows Mek'leth's effectives against somewhat armored opponents, since Borg drones are cyborgs. As for weapon itself; well, I agree that it's much more practical than Bat'leth - in fact that is my common criticism against authors who want to put melee weapons in SF settings; other that lightsabers - which can deflect blaster bolts - there is very little reason to use meele weapons when you have energy guns... In fact in one of the DS9 episodes, during Klingon siege of titular space station, one of the Klingons armed with Bat'leth charge Garak armed with Phaser and...that Klingon warrior was transported to Sto'Vo'Kor, a Klingon, space Valhalla in record time!😂It is like Garak watched and liked scene from "Riders of lost ark" in which Indiana Jones shoots Arabian swordsman.... But Mek'leth is a different story and it can be indeed use the same in which modern special forces are using combat knives; heck scene from "First contact" showed that it can be effectively use against enemies equipped with personal energy shields, designed to protect against Phaser fire. Anyhow; thank you for making me aware that weapons like Mek'leth could work in real life and it's not some fantastical and impractical creation...
Thank you for this video and live long and prosper!🖖
To be honest the mekleth is pretty tame compared to some of the weird african swords lol
I said similar things about the Bat'leth years ago as a reply to Shad. Klingongs themselves are armoured- much more bone and protective tissues.
The only thing I would have you remember while doing these break downs is; Klingons are supposed to have massively superior upper body strength compared to humans, as well as certain redundant organs. Doubled up holding of the last rung on a Bat'leth plus the superior strength of a Klingon could give them the edge to make the Bat'leth into a proper weapon.
Also in regards to a side arm, you see Klingon warriors using more pistol style weapons as a back up weapon and marching into battle with their Bat'leths. Personally I have always thought of this as a weird cultural version of Counting Coup. In this world where projectile weapons or beam weapons are the weapon of the day, you have these blade wielders charging in to cut down their enemy.
My two cents have been added
Hi Matt! You know, something that a lot of medieval youtubers seem to miss in these breakdowns of scifi melee weapons is that while polearms are good weapons in general, they are crap on starships. Federation ships with their ridiculous wasteful designs notwithstanding, most starships won't have wide corridors where you can easily fit a camera crew to go along with your actors. Something more along the lines of modern navy ships is far more likely and practical for starship designs. So, if you can't use the weapon to effectively fight in the rooms and corridors of a navy ship, you're not using it on a starship. It's as simple as that. =^x^=
20:30 he's not outside the station on DS9, that's from the movie First Contact. He's on the Enterprise E (doing a spacewalk on the hull outside), fighting off Borg! It's a good film, you should watch it. ;)
the Vulcan Lirpa is identical in use to the traditional Chinese "monk's spade"
The bat'leth is a war sword, and dueling sword. Think of it like a greatsword or longsword. They were not usually carried unless you were going to use it. th Mek'leth would be more like an arming sword or rapier. Something you could carry around with you in everyday use.
I love that you guys are also fantasy/SF geeks!! (Like me!) No insult intended; I assure you. I liked your video on fantasy word building as well. I am also a history buff, so your videos and Tod’s Workshop videos have me hooked!
If I was a medieval Pre-Khaless Klingon and was to either walk into battle with either a Bat'leth or a Mek'leth plus a large wooden shield with a metal boss, I'd take the Machete and Shield Version any day. The fact that it's even close if you leave the shield out of the equation says everything.
EXTREMELY cool video!!!
I havent watched the video yet but I wanna guess the answer.
It's for ship boarding actions, so its short length and sharp trenchkniofe style knucklebow will be super useful.
It's also got a great cutting blade like a kukri.
Missing bit would be klingon history of ship boarding warfare. think two clans (or two family factions) fighting in close quarters with semi-improvised weapons (trench daggers) based on traditional weapons but recreated locally and quickly. 'traditional' is a slippery term, don't forget that Shakespear was a klingon...
Borg drones are known for their personal force fields that adapt to energy weapons. The Mek'leth is best known from when Worf engaged a drone hand to hand after his phaser rifle had been rendered useless.
OK, now I want to see Matt telling a Klingon about the shortcommings of his Bat'leth. Can we crowd-fund that? 🤔
Absolutely, if you can rustle up a Klingon, then I'll do it for a very reasonable fee.
@@scholagladiatoria careful, you're sounding very ferengi which is likely to anger the Klingon....
@Scholagladitoria Excellent breakdown Matt! Been a Trekker ever since I was a kid and Worf is definitely one of my favorite characters. I've always thought of the Mek'leth as essentially a Klingon version of a machete - a big, nasty knife that makes perfect sense to have on you if you're a rank and file Klingon soldier. Not only does it come in handy if you lose your disruptor pistol, is more effective than the D'k tahg, or three pronged dagger, and more practical than the iconic Bat'leth. It's an excellent close quarters combat edged weapon, again, essentially what you'd expect from a machete. Gives tons of chopping power, especially in the hands of a Klingon who's a beast like Worf and can even double as a bushcraft tool on distant worlds, too.
And, speaking of anti-armor melee weapons, in the film "Star Trek: First Contact" Worf chops off the arm of a fully armored Borg while taking a spacewalk on the hull of the Enterprise-E (my personal favorite). Worf proved the effectiveness of the weapon right there - everyone knows that standard phasers are pretty much useless against Borg...
Great video! Have you considered doing one on the Vulcan Lirpa. I’d love to see your review of it.
Pondering lifes important questions
Also, its really useful when thw Borg have adapted to your current phaser modulation.
one weird note is the swept back angle of the grip paired with the forward curved blade, kind of almost cancels out
The blade have that spiky bit neat the tip. That can pierce, and help better start the slicing/chopping part.
Great review to enjoy on the Klingon weapon! Thanks for sharing! Question = would you enjoy reviewing the Star Wars "Tosken Raider Gaffi Stick"?
Why wasn't cutout to serve as guards done more often? Friction fitting a separate piece seems to be much more labor intensive than having the blade serve as the guard and riveting bits to the side to add protection to the sides. Shock absorption? metallurgy?
Hey Matt, only point I would make is to compare it to some of the more modern combo-tool knife-ax "survival" tools and consider additional functions it might have
Well, DS9 had only one starship, assigned rather late in it's tenure. Seemingly an awesome ship, but it was defeated and captured by the Jem'Hadar nearly every time it went out. And the JH were so unimpressed, they just gave it back after the encounters. We all should be worshipping the Founders now. ;-)
Everyone forgets the three bladed D’takh dagger. 😞
I think in terms of a throwing weapon having the center of mass somewhere in the mid point instead of toward one end or the other makes sense. End up with a balance similar to a hunting boomerang. A lot of prehistoric clubs designed to be thrown as well as swung often had similar mass distribution and an airfoil design.
Her "he's probably watching porn."
Men *watching this channel*
I love the mekleth, but a kurki or other practical shortsword guard similar in profile to the mekleth would be amazing.
I'm sure there used to be a VHS Video called "Florentine Mek'Leth" or something similar.....but this was years ago and I can't find a referrence to it online. Perhaps just as well!
You have to remember that Klingons are proportionally stronger than Humans, though it doesn't always shows when they are fighting main characters. So, the balance issue would be less an issue for them, they have more wrist strength to compensate and they may like the effect the imbalance have on the chopping capability of the mek'leth.
I wonder if another advantage of such an oddly-balanced weapon is in fact it's "odd" (lack of) balance. At least, if you're not used to it. With practice of course you can be effective with any weapon, but if someone is able to get it from you, which might happen in a close-combat scenario, they might not be able to use it effectively themselves. Especially if it's rare, maybe even specific to Worf, you might not know how to defend against it at a glance, and certainly wouldn't be very good with it.
It's a heavy, sharp chunk of metal - How unique can it be? And how many non-Klingons are even vaguely interested in man to man duels?
The Vulcan Lirpa would be a really good and interesting weapon to cover in your next video.
Some things to consider in regards to how seemingly crude Worf’s bat-leth and mek-leth seem:
We know Worf’s bat-leth belonged to his father. There is a possibility that both his bat-leth and mek-leth are antique ancestral weapons, and he uses them out of sentiment. Worf might choose more ergonomic and modern versions if he was acquiring his own.
Another possibility: Worf sees his mek-leth as an essentially disposable tool. There is every possibility that it might be broken or lost in the course of his duties. Why invest a lot of effort in making a ergonomically shaped, rounded grip, if a flat blade cut from a sheet of bakonite, and wrapped with targ-hide will do the job? We have plenty of modern examples of minimalist knives ground out from bar stock, and wrapped with leather or paracord. I can definitely picture Worf cutting and grinding out a half-dozen mek-leths in Chief O’Brian’s machine shop on DS9.
Worf lives in a world of replicators and professional engineers. While I can understand that he wouldn't go into huge depth customising his blade, having Chief O'Brien grind down the jagged edges to avoid cutting himself all the time is probably a good idea.
When you look at those crude melee weapons from the first world war, remember that the troops really need them but only have the materials to hand to use. And honestly a lot of them seem to be made as entertainment for bored squaddies.
Clearly those weapons were useful to some degree, but a lot of them look difficult to carry. How exactly do you advance with your knuckleduster-with-long-spike-knife? Where do you have it slung so that you can just slip your fingers through it? Are you just not going to bother with a rifle or grenades at all?
Thing is that bayonets of this era are actually not too bad as melee weapons - A 1907 pattern bayonet is actually not a million miles away from being a gladius. It needs a better grip and guard, and I do think it's a bit too long, but its certainly not terrible.
Point being that no-one really makes things deliberately crude - People sometimes make things to look scary, but you do need it to be functional.
@@lostalone9320 I see your point, but I disagree.
First, many people like making stuff by hand. Replicators or Amazon, some people prefer something they made themselves, even if it's something they don't mind losing. I've ground out blades in my shop at work, for fun. I can definitely see Worf grinding Mek-Leths out himself, didn't mean to to imply O'Brian would be doing it for him.
Second, smoothing over the edges on metal is not the same as making grip scales or forging a piece of flat stock into an oval handle. That's a ton more effort. De-burr the edges? Of course. Make a more rounded handle? Maybe not.
Either way, it's all speculation, which is why I advanced two different possibilities.
9:44 Worf holds a mek-leth near Dax' throat. The INSIDE of the hand-guard is sharp!!! That is special.
you might consider older tulwar-hilted kukris or the rare koras with guards. similarly the javanese kucang. not that the mek'leth is like a kucang in most ways, but the inner curve and the open hook near the hilt could be used in similar ways for catching the blade and redirecting or disabling the opponent's hand
I really like the reality of the mek'leth as used by the Klingons. As much as modern armies want to disallow carrying combat knives, every time we get soldiers into real combat, everyone gets their hands on some kind of knife or dagger. Even tomahawks made their mark in the GWOT. Having been a soldier for much of my life, carrying a knife for combat and utility makes great sense. Within the genre of Star Trek, the Klingons are portrayed as more violent and savage than the "civilized" federation so of course they would use a blade of some sort. Another well considered video.
Hello Matt, how are you? Any ever suggest looking at the practicality of Riddicks blades?
Another thought. Inside space ships with confined corridors and walk ways, a long poll weapon or long weapon would be a disadvantage. But, that might be why a Bat let works made for fighting close quarters in restricted space where something longer would never work.
The handle angle needs to be farther inward. It would help in quick snap cuts which the tip seems made for.
LOVE THIS ONE!
Only one nitpick: the sequence shown at 20:30 where Worf pulls out his Mek'leth is not on DS9, it is on the Enterprise E, during the movie First Contact.
I love the edged weapons in Star Trek! I have made myself a Mek’leth & done it in good high carbon steel!🖖🏻
Hi Matt, I agree, the Mek'leth is the more fun weapon in a melee and know imagine it together with some sort of a small forearm shield 🤩🤩🤩🤩
and then imagine, they would use real I.33 techniques with this combination 🥰😁😁😁
wouldn't that have been awesome? 😁
cheers harry
I actually have a replica of the hero prop that they used to sell a few years ago. It seems to be made from 1/4" aluminium with beveled edges. So it's very much a prop rather than an actual weapon. I think they also had stunt versions made of rubber over a wire armature.
The grip does seem to have some foam padding under the wrapping. If it was a real weapon I think the proportions would need to be tailored to the user because I assume that Michael Dorn must have much bigger hands than I do which makes it much more unwealdy for me but I don't think that's a problem with the overall design.
I have a question: wouldn't the angle of the handle on the Mek'leth decrease the effectiveness of its cutting/chopping? It's blade has that nice forward curve for chopping, but the handle kicks towards the spine. It looks kinda counter-intuitive.
It's like the Chinese Deer-Antler-Knife, but also like a war club. I bet it would work just fine.
I still want to see a scene designed by a team including military historians, modern military tacticians, and cinematographers of a Klingon boarding action with shock troops with Bat'leth leading a charge down ship corridors, using them to push the defenders into the walls while taking fire while their energy weapon squad-mates follow them up. I don't think we have ever seen a really great boarding action in Startrek.
From memory, there is an Italian weapon that is a bit like the dusack, where the space for the hand is a cutout rather than a grip with knuckle bow.
I think what T'pol was actually describing is the Mevak. It is a two pronged ritual dagger, which is capable of the things the mentioned, and fits the given description far better than the Mek'leth.
Based mostly on that sparring match between Jadzia-Dax and Worf (that Jadzia won handily), I got the impression that the bat'leth is a short polearm somewhat like a bardich with an inset haft designed primarily for parrying rather than offense. The mek'leth (alone or in pairs) seems to be primarily offensive and has applications as a sword-breaker or disarming-blade.
I agree that the mekleth is more practical. But I think the batleth tends to get a bit of a bad wrap. The batleth as you say can make sense in armored fighting. I know that it seems short and awkward; But if you compare it to half swording a long sword suddenly it's not so bad..You have similar reach better grip more options to hook and control your opponents weapon or limbs it has some ability because of the forward sweep of the points to act as a pick to drive through armor on swings but can still be thrust through gaps or weak points. In a fight with heavy enough armor a long sword cut would be in effective I'd prefer a batleth to a halfsworded longsword.. I'd still slightly prefer a pole axe. But they are close
Nah, the bat'leth is pretty dreadful. The reach is really short, but you can't wield it with a shield or one-handed so there are no benefits. It's not even nice and light like a small sword.
Giving up the reach is such a bad idea - You can't use it like a spear even slightly, and anyone with more reach can just jab at you and keep you back.
I agree a bat'leth is probably better as a tin opener than a half-sworded long sword, but thats because the longsword isn't really made for that. The bat'leth maybe can generate more leverage for less length (because the fulcrum is in a different place) but assuming that the halberd/poleaxe can still penetrate armor then it's radically better for just about everything.
In one episode it is said the Bat´leth is specifically designed to penetrate through klingons ribcage, which is much more robustly built than a humans and the ribs are closer together.
The point on the front edge of the blade would be useful for punching through armor.
I don't know why it didn't occur to me before, but when you mentioned it unlikely that the hand-guard could break a Bat'leth blade, I wondered what the design could have had in mind that it was specifically designed to break a blade. It would require some leverage to be in play beyond merely having a spikey hook in front of the hand. But look at it again! It's shaped like a bottle opener. I see the logic intended right away now: the Bat'leth is descending, you have the Mek'leth blocking *at right angles to the plane of the Bat'leth*, and when the blade is inside the hook you scoop upwards with the point into the broad side of the blade. Possibly it could just serve to disarm, but if the Klingon opponent is very strong he might offer enough counterforce that you would damage his blade instead. Dunno if that would actually work in practice, but I think that's the idea in design.
Hello Matt! I have to completely agree with everything you said. But is it weird that if I somehow found myself in a Star Trek setting, I'd rather have a Langesmesser? 🙂 Thanks for another fun video!
Probably because a langemesser is a pretty good sword wherever you find yourself -
I would be a little concerned about the blade at the base of the handle. If the mek'leth is a side weapon, you want to be able to grab it and draw it quickly. You don't want to cut your hand while you're trying to retrieve it.
I love that the hanguard on this thing looks like it's also sharp, makes sense for an up close and personal brawling kind of weapon
My only question is how does one draw one of these lol
Trick question - You never put it away.
The only thing not mentioned is the angle of the hand to the business end. The forward point is behind the line straight out from the grip. This is quite common with slicing swords but not in hammers, axes, kukris and other choppers. I would find it unbalancing but I guess if that was all you had ever known....
As per the critique of the bat'leth, I'd be curious to see your opinion on the Sword of Kahless design compared to the main bat'leth appearance. While the bat'leth has always been obviously impractical, I do think the Sword of Kahless' specific design does improve upon the issues of the bat'leth, so much that it create an incongruity where its design should be the standard. It's less crescent and seems to reach out a bit further, while the grip seems a bit better because it's a larger area instead of three smaller grips.
Honestly my favorite Klingon weapons, if they count, are the swords from the Original Series.
Star Trek Online has some good designs for the mek'leth
My other gripe with the handle is that (where it, the blade & the hand guard join) the blade & handle form an "m" shape; which puts the tip of the blade in line with the line of the handle, rather than being forward of that line, thereby reducing the "choppiness" of the weapon without improving its agility.
Having done the Bat'leth and the Mek'leth, I think you need to complete the trilogy and look at the d'k tahg, the Klingon knife fighting dagger with the oddly spring-loaded cross-guard.
You should do the jem' Hadar sword next.
I feel that this was a very good break down of the Mek'leth I don't think there were any points (no pun intended) not covered.