Neumann MT-48 vs Apollo Preamps with the Soyuz 017 FET
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- Опубліковано 18 чер 2023
- Comparing the stock preamps between the MT-48 and the Apollo and it kind of all comes down to the converters.
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Super helpful comparison. I was on the fence about the Neumann, but hearing it side-by-side with the Apollo was a revelation. Plus, your voice is amazing! Such richness and resonance. I can listen to you recite the phone book all day long.
Thank you very much Derrick. Very kind of you.
Look forward to seeing your experiment using Apollo and MT 48 together. Interesting.
That for sure is coming.
I have the Neumann MT48 and it’sa hugely impressive audio interface. Prior to this I was utilizing the RME Babyface Pro FS… which was great, but the headroom on the Neumann is next level. I loved it so much that I ended up doing a studio overhaul and upgraded my speakers to a set of Genelec 8341A SAM monitors.
Very cool! I do believe this is all Neumann’s plan to make the MT-48 the center of a whole studio ecosystem.
I have the 8351b and i want to tell you that you still have an extra 5-10% on those monitors if you ever switch up on your dac, see if you can get one with spdif/aes output. Skips on 2 stages of conversion, just sounds more open. Cheers!
I’m sold! Thanks again Mark.
I think the Neumann is on track to become the VO interface king. It’s practically perfect for it.
The MT-48 vs Apollo comparison the MT-48 was more open and transparent, very impressive
Right? When it comes to your voice, do you want clarity or cloudiness?
Thanks Mark...good call!
You are very welcome.
No other UA-camr has dared to make a comparison like this. Your channel deserves more attention. Thanks for making it possible Mark, I really appreciate it. As I commented on your last video, your voice sounds better than ever. Regarding this new video the Apollo sounds like a toy. However there may be some other voices that could get the benefit of darker preamps and converters. I wonder how an external preamp would sound using the Neumann's converters (I have a TT73 Neve Clone by Heritage Audio) and I'd really love to see an smallest version of the MT48 for VO artists, cause there are many features on it that we really don't need. Again congrats on your new device and keep the great job.
Thank you Gustavo! The Apollo has its place, but I would not be surprised to see more interfaces from Neumann in the future, expanding this concept of a pro Neumann studio.
GREAT ANALYSIS!!
Thank you very much.
It’s NOT just the converter chip that makes the difference in tone. Yes, it’s important. However the circuit and quality of components surrounding and supporting the converter chip are MUCH more important than just the chip alone.
Having said that; the MT is an amazing sounding device!
I’m a professional that has used Lynx, Apogee, Apollo x8p and now only use the MT48 on major label records for vocals. Couldn’t be happier! Still love the Lynx for clarity and Apogee for rock. However the MT 48 with my U67 is Fkin magic!!
holy shit i knew there was a difference but did not know it was THIS much of a difference!
I didn't either. I had been just buying into the whole UA myth that it was better than everything.
You need our comments, we need your videos! Thanks for another great content Mark! Your channel is one of the most valuable on all of UA-cam!
Neumann ROCKS! 👌 BUT... If I understood correctly, it still doesn't incorporate de-esser, right?. I hope Sennheiser includes it soon!
Have a nice day Master! 🖖
That is correct. There is no De esser on the Neumann... yet. I've been adding it on the back end render from Reaper, but I'm holding out hope Neumann gives us the Merging De Esser soon.
I think your analysis is right on the money. In my case I went from a Zen Go to the Apollo Solo USB due to stability issues and can hear a clear audible difference between them. When singing, the Apollo sound musical but with speech it is as you described. Truthfully, I think I can achieve a better sound out of the Zen Go only using the plugins that come with it. In contrast, I needed to do a lot of tweaking to achieve a similar sound with the Apollo which involved using plug-ins that didn't come with the device. The Neumann sounds like it's in a class of it's own.
Right? Like many, I was led to believe the Apollo was sonically superior to other platforms and yet, I too ended up doing what you did, constantly stacking more of their plug ins into my sound trying to get a VO tone that was punchy and clear, and never quite finding it until I switched to a different platform. The Neumann completely exposed the Apollo’s major flaws in terms of how smeary it is.
Listening with my phone. I can actually hear the difference. The lack of that high end roll-off is audible on my phone. It pushes the sound a bit more forward and makes it just slightly clearer.
Nice. Find the silver lining.
We noticed it immediately when he switched. Everyone is surrounding a phone and we all noticed it!
Like others Mark, listened on my 770s and the MT48 was hands down the winner. Glad you're seeing results also on booking even more gigs! The Neumann has a clarity that is just superior to the Apollo. Not really close to be honest. Keep up the great videos
Oh yeah, it's like the difference between ordering the Prime Rib from Lawry's or Tam O' Shanter and ordering from Arby's. Just more of what you're looking for in all the right ways.
Man, like butter. It's night and day on the Kalis and the 7506s. Interesting about the convertors. I tried to look up what the Twin X uses (since it's advertised as "elite class" and fully upgraded) but I can't find what's under the hood. Either way, you've got your sound now. Hands down!
Thanks man. The Twin X has the same converters. Only the X16 has a better DAC. It seems all of their current units have converters in them that were designed over 5 years ago, and these are all "budget" versions of AKM and ESS's pro-spec converters.
@@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff How could they have the same convertors? When I chose the X, I did so because of the upgraded convertors. Hmm. If you're right, that's shady.
@@TheRecordist UA doing something shady? How could that possibly be? Same converters, according to Matt from UA - gearspace.com/board/showpost.php?p=14541874&postcount=16
@@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff well that’s balls. Man, I’ve got to ask Drew about this.
Also, I’ve just noticed that my phone keeps correcting “converters” to “convertors”. My apologies. 🤓
I meant Drew from UA, not Matt. That came from Drew. But yeah, email him and ask him directly. There’s a whole story about how they repackaged all their same stuff as Heritage Editions and raised prices because they wanted to use all their on hand converters instead of upgrading, but I don’t give enough of a shit to tell it.
Hi Mark! Loving the sound of the MT48. I have been using the Apollo Twin X for a couple of years along with my TLM103. I have considered upgrading my microphone to a U87 in my "tone quest." But now, I think my first upgrade should be to the MT48 instead of a U87. Thoughts? BTW, 95% of my work is audiobook narration. Keep blessing lives Mark!
Hi Frank! Try the MT-48 from a place with a good return policy and you will never look back. Neumann developed it using their mics as the reference, so it was designed to pair perfectly with them. Especially when your bread and butter is just naked voice tracks, the extra clarity and richness you get from the MT-48 will make it the last preamp you ever buy.
Thank you so very much for your input, Mark. Much appreciated. @@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff
I’m listening through my iPhone speaker the the difference is staggering, it’s night and day. The neumann sounds so much fuller and more open. The Apollo sounds dull and almost tinny. I’ll give it a proper listen in my studio later through my neumann KH 310 monitor speakers and KH 750 sub. I can only imagine the difference through the proper monitors. I moved over from the Audient ID22, but I bypassed the preamps and I was using the Avalon 737 hardware tube preamp, and I can say the mt 48 seems to definitely sound way better than that, I’ve seven busy so im still experimenting I hope to record some voiceover today to layover a recent dj mix for my drum & bass podcast. I also do a second podcast that’s house, acid, progressive house, breaks and various other styles of rave music based on that 90’s sound I love so much! I’ve done some tests that I’ve been very pleased with. I’ll definitely let you know once I get a show recorded abs fully mixed and mastered with Ozone 10. Your knowledge and comparison in this video validates this $1850 purchase more and more. Thanks again Mark, outstanding work and video. Respect 🫡
You're very welcome Brian. Yeah, the difference, even on a phone is enough that if someone can't hear it, I would suggest they consider a career in the visual arts instead.
Hi, How did you bypassed the mt48 internal preamp to use external preamp? Thanks
@@MarkYoshimotoNemcoffI'm on Samsung and the difference is easy to hear. My Apollo isn't going to like me very much soon.
I wonder what you think about the new channel strip gear now giving you qualities from the big mixers with Neve channel strip. I'm talking about Neve 88m and Rupert Neve Designs Newton Channel Strip. How much would it mean to be able to use this kind of gear in a voice-over aspect?
High quality gear will get you high quality results, and in a massively competitive field like VO, the quality of your sound can be the difference between booking the job or not. Truth is most VO artists I’ve known who have washed out of the business have one thing in common, they never understood their gear at a high professional level.
Can hear it but, whether that equates to better results in a mix ? Still no 32 bit floating point on either ??
Have experience with both , Apollo being the x6, yes MT48 has a very open and clear high-md to high end , but the Apollo once you star stacking instruments has a very Mid low to lows pleasing sound to it , especially of you are running through Luna .
I use the DAC on the Anubis,which is related to the MT-48, for my mastering duties…It allows me to look deeper into the music…
That’s a great way to describe it. The DAC just brings depth to music in a way that I definitely wasn’t hearing with the Apollo.
WOW that Neumann sounds amazing. The Apollo sound a bit warmer to my ears. I think with some EQ you can achieve the same sound as the Neumann. Off the bat it sounds official but that price if I find one used I’ll def grab one if below 1k.
Unfortunately, you can't fix smeared transients and lesser conversion with EQ, but the Apollo's faults work for most music if you want to analog cosplay. Just not a fan of it for the naked sound of VO. Hope you can snag an MT-48 used at some point. You'll love it.
I’ll take an Apollo and save $1200 bucks 😂
@@j-perezmusicnah for real tho. 😂
Hey Mark, thanks for that great comparison. I'm also into high end voice recording and doing a lot of podcast stuff. With mostly two but also more people. So the M-48 has it's limitations if I need more than two mics. I'm also an upright bass jazz player and I would like to check that MT-48 for live preamp situation. combining mic and pickup. It must work fine with that low latency circuit. But i've got another question to you. If you don't use the apollo anymore... what plugin chain or what plugin brands are you using right now. Or what are you using in post if you got time for postproduction. What alternative plugins are you using for example noise and ambience reduction. I mean without the apollo interface you also can't use that great plugins anymore.
I have the MT-48 hooked up to use the two line inputs with external preamps, so that's worked out to add some variation, but the internal preamps are just insanely good. So good that I'm not using any plug ins (other than de-esser) on my stuff anymore. No or very, very limited EQ and just a tiny kiss of compression along with the gate from the MT-48's dynamics. I have come to realize that the "need" I had to use so many plug ins came from this muddled low-mid that the Apollo had and me thinking it was my booth or my mics instead of the entire UAD "analog cosplay" thing. I get it now, but before when I was so brainwashed into thinking the Apollo was the 'be all, end all' for voice, I couldn't see the forest for the trees. The evidence for me is in seeing the positive effect upon my bottom line which correlates with when I put the MT-48 into service here, so as far as I'm concerned the Apollo is completely in the rearview mirror.
The other option you have with adding channel inputs to the MT-48 is that it accepts ADAT in, so you can easily add more channels via the optical input and an ADAT interface.
Thank you for your review. Can MT 48 be powered by a power bank? I guess Neumann changed the Anubis adapter DC jack to the MT 48's USB-C port for Power Delivery (PD) function.
That's a good question. Though, I'm not about to plug it into anything other than the supplied adapter to find out. According to the manual, it will do power over Ethernet.
Thanks for your reply.
If it can be powered by power bank , I don't need to buy another USB-powered interface for recording and mixing outside.
Loved the MT48. The only thing to my amateur ears I liked better on the Apollo is sibilance seemed a little tamer. I am sensitive to that though and trying to reduce it on my own recordings without sacrificing clarity is tough, at least on my equipment (SSL 2+ interface with either Lewitt LCT 440 Pure or RODE K2 mic)
Since it was a “no-processing” test I didn’t include a de-esser, but once you toss a little Techivation t-de esser on that, it’s never an issue. It’s actually free and probably my favorite de esser. Try it.
Good afternoon! Please tell me if there is a loop back loop function on the card to send sound from any daw to obs, for example, usually on other cards such a function eats the first two inputs, which is not very pleasant. I will be grateful for the answer
Yes. Read the manual for details.
You've mentioned the MT48's AD/DA but do look at the MT 48 preamps, they're quite, quite different (and very good indeed)...and deserve an episode all of their own (see Merging documentation if Neumann doesn't explicitly mention the architecture).
Definitely! The differential input on the Neumann pre's is a huge difference maker. Somewhat in the same category of how the Hardy Preamps get so clean and powerful by splitting the hot and cold AC signals into two separate op amps. Those Neumann preamps are worth the price of admission alone.
@@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff If you've got an SM7B, try that through the MT48, you'll be surprised...you won't have heard the SM7B sound quite like it before.
@@John-tm2hw Wouldn't be surprised. Never liked my voice on a 7b though. Sold mine a decade ago and never looked back.
@@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff Fair enough! Point to note about your video was that the difference between the MT48 and Apollo was *night and day* on earbuds and smartphone speakers. Listening on studio monitors or headphones, the difference is even bigger. K - I'm a fan of Anubis/MT48 (both are unbelievably good value for what they deliver).
. . . and the choice in mics, the placement, the signal . . . everything matters, especially the artist/engineer in the moment.
I heard there might be latency concerns with the MT48. Is there a way to ensure super low latency between the voice and playback?
(I understand very little about how interfaces work.)
I just do VO. It hasn’t been a problem for me.
Am interested to learn more with voice over. Can you help me?
Thanks for asking but I don’t do VO coaching.
How does the Apollo compare to a Prism interface?
No idea. Haven't used a Prism.
WOW! 🤯
Right? I always thought the Apollo was supposed to be better than this.
Is that really a fair comparison? Are both of them equally balanced on the input? The Neumann seems much louder to me, which would make the comparison unfair 🙂
Both normalized to the same volume. Also just look at the spectrograph.
since the day apollo hit the producer's market mainly, i had never liked it's DAC. Apollo should be sold in just half the price then it can be considered better or bang for the buck. it is 30 percent interface and 70 percent UA brand logo that makes it worth more than it should be,
Yeah. That Neumann…
I think it has the potential to eventually become a new standard for home studio VO.
@@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff I think it has the potential to be in my home studio in a week.
Neumann MT-48 is a new Product und the Apollo X6 is several years old. So, what are we expecting, if Neumann does his homework ;) but i don´t buy every several years new sound modules. Because i need the versatile input and outputs (Adat and Analog IO). And the whole bunch of plugins from UA Audio. so i only bought last week an weiss dac.
the trend is more and more people consume music spoken word on smaller speakers so higher fidelity is always going to be better, better mic pre convertor and mixing all add up, but so do the pennies
So true. As long as there is VO, there will be fierce deathmatch competition for every gig and the only way to know the quality of your sound isn't your problem is to eliminate that variable to the fullest extent that your pennies allow.
@@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff for sure :) well im looking for a soyuz now but im really struggling to hold onto the mt48 as the capture on my prism lyra is pipping it to the post, if you get a chance to try a lyra :) end game
YOU SHOULD TRY ONCE NEVE 88M PREAMP
I should. If only Neve would send me one.
@@MarkYoshimotoNemcoffbecause i had neve 88m and just bought now neumann mt48 . i think neve sound was very analog and tite
I can help you go with the neumann because its next level
This is a rebranded Merging Technologies Anubis.. ironically for less money when branded as Neumann! So yeah, this should be a super high-end unit and the sound is indeed very good.
What's also interesting about the parallel MT48/Anubis track is that they are both currently running the same exact numbered version of their respective firmware, so the development of each as sibling systems is completely co-dependent. Smart move on Neumann's part.
Thanks a lot. Now my wallet has to suffer :D
This is an absolutely incorrect statement that Apollo was created for "analog console" recording. It's just a standard audio interface with a regular conversion. If you use their plug-ins in the interface when recording, then you can emulate analog devices to some degree. And by the way recording thru nice console is much much fuller and nicer and without rolloffs. It's just that the UAD are very good at marketing, but apollos sound just average.
I’m talking about their console front end interface.
I feel like the Apollo is designed with the expectation that everyone will use a unison preamp, even if just the stock 610. So they built the circuit to be as neutral (boring) as possible without one. Similar to using a modeling mic without the emulations.
When I switched to Apollo from Audient I experienced a real decrease in tone quality until I started adding DSP effects back in. Knowing what I know now, I would like my Audient back.
MT48 kill the Apollo! TY
Sliced, diced, filleted and gutted it.
Apollo sounds like 💩, the unison circuitry which is already so many years old, just completely washes out the mid frequencies and expects that you will use plugins to clean them up ( to show that the plugins are great ). On top of that Apollo’s converters are almost 7 years old and the circuitry around the chip is so feeble. Open the case and you will be so underwhelmed to see around.
Right? The entire Apollo platform is showing lots of grey hair. The other greasy thing they did was to just repackage the same old stuff as Heritage Edition, raise the price $400 and just give you a few more free plug ins. When you really look at it objectively, Apollo is a platform with an uncertain future at this time.
@@MarkYoshimotoNemcoff exactly ! Even a cheaper Antelope desktop or Babyface will sound 100 times better than Apollo, as there is no clean signal path in Apollo.
Its all about the plugins. They have an entire plugin website for a reason and have been massively discounting them lately because of the Mt 48