A Sonic Adventure 2 Analysis: Through The Looking Glass
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- Many consider Sonic Adventure 2 to the best 3D Sonic game ever made, but why? What does SA2 do that gets people so interested and coming back for more?
Through The Looking Glass: A Sonic Adventure 2 Analysis, takes a unique deep dive into explaining Sonic Adventure. Utilising scientific, literary and game design theory to investigate and explain SA2 in a way to deepen your understanding of both why the game is considered a classic and how to better improve your ability to critique and talk about video games.
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Hunnid P Sources:
pastebin.com/3maiVxQ6
docs.google.com/document/d/1h...
Image by wavebreakmedia_micro on Freepik
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CHAPTERS
0:00 - Sponsor
0:20 - Intro
2:04 - Part 1: Why Am I Not Playing The More Fun Game?
5:54 - Part 2: Story Structure
18:28 - Part 3: The Cutscenes
34:18 - Part 4: We Need To Talk About Amy
41:30 - Part 5: Cutscenes Again
48:11 - Part 6: Gameplay & Level Design
54:07 - Part 7: I Swapped Them
1:16:20 - Part 8: The Other 2/3 Of The Game!
1:32:06 - Part 9: Upgrading The Fun 2
1:37:26 - Part 10: Boss Battles
1:46:40 - Part 11: The Music
1:49:17 - Part 12: Themes
2:29:42 - Part 13: Adventure Fields Are Good Actually
2:35:46 - Part 14: The Last Adventure
2:45:35 - Part 15: Conclusion
2:55:19 - Credits
2:56:21 - Next Video Teaser - Ігри
Somewhere in this video, I hid a screenshot of Shadow the Hedgehog wearing a dress... Try to find it.
Oh noooo I have to watch this masterpiece all over again!! Darnnnnn
Fuckin based, happy Pride Month lmao
@yrmmishere lol That wasn't the intention but still. Happy Pride to you!
1:40:57
@@BadnikMechanic just a great coincidence 😺 happy pride!
41:18 I blame the 16:9 mod. You're not supposed to see that part of the screen.
Yeah it probably is that... Still makes me chuckle though!
rules are meant to be broken. SA2's story is fascinating because it starts amidst an already chaotic plot and thrusts you into action from scene 1. We're not really missing much "action" from not getting to see Shadow infiltrate the building and stuff because the game is already action-packed from the get go. It's sort of a non-flaw you're pointing out. SA2 is many things, but light on action set-pieces involving breaking into places is not one of them. Besides, isn't Radical Highway supposed to be what shadow is doing immediately before stealing the emerald?
Honey, wake up, Badnik Mechanic just posted!
1:53:19
Or that, Sonic had more use with a super form, and they wanted Shadow’s redemption arc to end with him dying.
I think the most interesting parts of this video were the cutscene analysis, their "cinematography", etc. And also the level design analysis: not only the different routes the player can take and why the level (and the ranking system) encourages exploration and replayability, but also the level "decor" and setting inspired from real life environments. Very interesting stuff that is not often covered in such videos.
The rest of the video is very enjoyable, interesting and informative, but I feel like I've already seen a lot of compelling arguments for why the Sonic/Shadow gameplay is cool and why the other two types of gameplay are not as good. I did enjoy all the video, not just 1/3, though, and I wouldn't change it
That's kind of why I wanted to put that stuff in.
There's only so much you can say about Sonic and Shadows gameplay before you inevitably end up repeating 20+ years of discourse.
I hope at least the level design stuff. Like the real world imagery from my own town and the Tails segment was somewhat original at least.
@@BadnikMechanic Oh yeah you're right. Let me edit my post to reflect this.
I think personally the reason Sa2 doesnt have hubworlds is because the humans ARE apart of the actual ongoing story and the lore.
My belief is that Sa1 works on the micro and Sa2 works in the macro. What I mean is Sa1 focuses on the townsfolk because the central conflict of the finale is in Station Square, the city that gets destroyed. Talking a spending time with NPCs makes that lost greater. It is a slow burner, character focused story with small moments inbetween. Hell the main conflict Chaos doesnt really matter in most of the characters stories at least actively. We play Tails story not because we gotta defeat Chaos but to see the growth of Tails.
Sa2 focuses on the big bombastic moment to moment story beats that hit the ground running where there is no time to slow down. Sonic is captured, Eggman blows up the moon, Shadows entire character etc. Humans here may not have any NPC dialog like Sa1 but makes up for it including them in the conflict and not just bystanders. So much so they have connections with the previous games lore which imo along with Angel Island is some of the best in the series. Im not saying it cant work but having the game present its story "quicker" isnt better per say but it is something that works in the games favor.
Sa1 and Sa2 to me are equal yet opposite trying to do things in different ways which is why there is a split into which game is "better". Sorry for the long rant I enjoyed your video!^^
Your posts are genuinely such a huge treat. Thank you for all the effort Badnik Mechanic! It’s much appreciated.
the big 3: badnik mechanic, cybershell and game apologist
change my mind
Conspiracy theory: We are the same guy, just very fast and a master of disguise!
Really impressive analysis in many areas. You truly did your own thing with this video and brought up many things I've never considered before.
I felt that the video was also a bit too mean-spirited, as if you had an axe to grind with SA2. It almost felt like a hit piece at times. I say this as someone who also prefers SA1 over SA2.
The criticisms you raised are completely valid; you weren't inherently wrong. However, they didn't always feel entirely justified. Considering SA2 was a 2001 Dreamcast game that pushed many boundaries and was a technical marvel, some of the criticism seems unwarranted. The jump from an inconsistent 30 fps in SA1 to 60 fps in SA2 was significant. Framerate isn't solely about optimization; it's also a design choice made from the start of development. The narrower focus, lack of hub areas, and the "boxed-in" or claustrophobic level design were all deliberate to maintain the target frame rate of 60. This was a deliberate choice in order to make the game feel and play better. The level design and emphasis on action and scoring wouldn't have worked without 60 fps.
Despite inconsistencies in certain scenes and sound mixing issues in the English dub, the in-engine cutscenes and choreography in SA2 were impressive and memorable. Consider the context of 2001: not many games pulled off such action-packed in-engine cutscenes. Especially not platformers/games skewed for a younger audience. They shot for the moon and stretched themselves beyond what they were capable of. It's better they went for it and overall it was still incredibly memorable warts and all. I'd also wager a lot of these issues with the cutscenes are far less noticeable crunched down in 480p in 4:3 on a CRT of the era complete with a typical composite video hookup. So much of this just blends in or goes unnoticed. CRTs do so much heavy lifting. Putting this under scrutiny in higher resolutions and aspect ratios doesn't feel proper. The higher resolutions don't just affect the testures, it makes the animation quality and quirks stand out more since everything is mismatched. You can easily increase resolution, texture detail, and poly count but when you do that crude animations look even more crude. Something frame interpolation wouldn't solve.
Also, I'm not trying to make excuses for the team but animation is unbelievably hard! Even tougher for non-human characters since you run into the mocap issues you described in the video. We all can't be MGS2.
I appreciate that you included the context of SEGA leaving the console business and the uncertainty and turmoil it caused studio-wide, especially for expatriate staff.
However, I believe you could delve even further into this. Beyond the duress everyone faced, how did it affect the project's budget and timeline? While exact budget and timeline details aren't available, it's reasonable to conclude that SA2 had a smaller budget and shorter development time than SA1. It likely became a mad dash to wrap up development and ship ASAP once news broke that the Dreamcast was being discontinued.
SA1 underwent significant iteration as a Saturn game before being rebooted for the Dreamcast. This process reminds me of Shenmue in many ways, although not much is known about that situation either. Despite the constraints, what they achieved as a Dreamcast launch title with SA1 was phenomenal.
I don't think it's fair to view SA2 as the lesser game that did many things "worse" than SA1. A direct and faithful sequel to SA1 would indeed be fascinating, but SA2's purpose was to shake things up-it's what sequels should do. The smaller team and budget likely forced them in that direction, necessitating a narrower scope and greater efficiency with their design.
Different doesn't mean worse. For instance, I find it admirable that SA2 committed to a specific musical genre for each character, composing music around their personalities rather than the levels. This approach feels like a logical advancement from SA1. The effort involved in composing character-specific music was substantial. Disliking a genre or retroactively judging songs due to an artist's behavior (Hunnid P) isn't a fair way to evaluate the music.
Overall, the music design choice makes SA2 stand out as an independent work-an achievement I commend. I doubt that future Sonic games abandoning this approach means they realized it was a bad idea. Other factors, such as focusing less on multiple characters in later games and reusing levels for games that did have more than one playable character likely influenced those decisions.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong: wasn't the original concept for SA2 was to have only Sonic, Knuckles, and Eggman playable? I thought the SA2 trial disc trailer hinted at this. I know you mentioned Tails was added later in development due to mandates from higher-ups, leading to creative solutions like cloning Eggman's gameplay. The addition of more characters seems to have been a recurring theme throughout development.
Maaan I've waited ages for this one, the SA1 looking glass blew me away, thanks for your great content man 🙌 nice touch releasing it in June too
2:05:16 Fun fact, they also kept the secret from themselves. 50 years after the raid, GUN had no idea what Project Shadow was, all they knew was the name and that it was an ultimate weapon. The files they did had on the project were locked behind a password they didn't know. This is why they had to have Rouge look into it.
I'm pretty sure Gerald was requested by the President to unlock Immortality and at first Gerald denied the request believing Immortality should not be messed with, until he found out about Maria was terminally ill and decided to find away to obtain Immortality and while doing this a cure for Maria. The Government began to get cold feet and decided to kill everyone involved to cover up Project Shadow, Gerald's contact with Black Doom seemed accelerate this decision, I do understand where you are coming from about Gerald's actions but the Government/President actions through GUN was overkill, especially since they was the ones who wanted Gerald to create Immortality for them.
2:34:20
I don’t think I ever got the feeling of running around the entire world in the Adventure Fields.
Granted I grew up watching it on UA-cam and only started playing SA1 a few years ago.
2:05:46
The writer for SA2 said that there was some cutscenes for the game that never made the final cut. Many of them being important for SA2 if I remember correctly.
In the beginning cutscene of the game, you see handcuffs on Sonic, so it's reasonable to assume that he was arrested. And when you see the black truck later in the level, it's not too far-fetched to conclude that the truck is on the same side as the helicopter and therefore must be related to the group that arrested Sonic.
Games can only be so long, so it makes sense that we didn't play Shadow's bank heist. They would of had to make a whole level that you only play in once, and it's not even that important to the story they were wanting to tell.
Looking forward to this. Thank you so much for sticking to all this hehe c:
2:15:50
I should mention for anyone who doesn’t know about Archie. The Archie writers weren’t given the story of the new game typically, and had to hunt it down themselves. So Archie isn’t trustworthy for understanding a game’s narrative.
A new video lets go!! This is such a great analysis, amazing stuff Badnik! Definitely worth the wait! 😄
Thank you!!
Just sharing:
I read Gerald as a mash of both. That Gerald was commissioned by GUN to make new generations of weapons. One of these commissions being ‘project shadow’ the ultimate life form (aka op weapon).
But Gerald trying help Maria and/or feeling increasingly uneasy seeing how well project shadow was going didn’t want to make a life form of only destruction but creation too.
In the end GUN realized that Gerald had been making unauthorized changes to project shadow decided to shut it down, the situation later exalting.
Nice try distracting me with an awesome three hour video, but we all know the real reason SA1 is better is because SA2 reduced Big the Cat to mere cameos. Why didn't we get "Big the Cat: Accidental fugitive of the law?"
a 3 hour SA2 video essay? perfect to watch to unwind while toking my bedtime spliff. comfy nostalgia
14:12 Shadow doesn't fight Sonic right away because Shadow doesn't feel the need to. It wouldn't make sense for Shadow to fight Sonic during that introductory cutscene since 1) the police are hot on his trail, and 2) Shadow doesn't see Sonic as a threat to his mission yet. It's not until the jungle levels that Sonic actively gets in Shadow's way, and therefore Shadow feels the need to fight Sonic.
1:53:59
I personally think Sonic having deeper messages is fine. I hate it when people just says that these are just cartoony animals, why give them deeper meanings. (NOTE: I don’t blame you for thinking that if the characters designs are your reason to) As it undermines the passion and the fun someone can have creating a world that while looks cartoony, it’s treated a bit realistically in how the world would function in this scenario as well.
It’s like, don’t judge a book by its cover. Just because someone is really goofy and likes dress all girly, doesn’t mean they have some deeper or more philosophical ideas in them.
Besides, I find it more fun that way. And it’s a reason why I love Archie Sonic in many ways. It feels like they make a world with some cartoony elements. But leans in the direction of there is a realism to this world, that it’s just functioning on these fantastical & cartoony elements.
And for anyone who wants to bring up a character like Eggman. I personally don’t care that he isn’t complex as long as the writers are still having fun with him and how he affects the world around him. He’s like Jack Horner. Puss in Boots: The Last Wish is really deep. But yet, similar to Sonic, has a world that is fantastical and not perfectly realistic, and you can tell the people who made the movie had a lot of love with it.
Wait who's saying eggman isnt complex? Just because someone is unapologetically evil doesnt mean they're without depth
If shadow is gerald's son... does that mean shadow is dr eggman's uncle?!!?
Welcome to the rabbit hole Alice!
Yes, Shadow is the shady uncle who scams you for his own goals.
29:50 She wouldn't have to actually fly though. She's high enough up that all she would have to do is open her wings, which is something most winged animals would do on pure reflex, and glide to safety. In fact, because of the (I'm presuming) molten metal beneath her, there is probably a strong updraft of warm air which should provide extra lift for her.
Knuckles catches her almost immediately after she falls. Yes, she could’ve and likely would’ve ended up saving herself anyway but the fact that Knuckles saved her was still significant
2:16:34 Shadow's rage is his own. Shadow cared a lot about Maria. Gerald didn't force Shadow to be angry, he did that on his own.
8:00 What Shadow is referring to is the fist time they meet. Also, Shadow is angry because Sonic is getting in his way.
i haven't watched you in years, but this new direction you are going with the videos moving forward is so great!, i really hope you'll continue with this type of videos. I'm obsessed with 2-4 hours long videos about things i love
Thank you!
Yes I will be continuing this direction, I'm enjoying doing these a lot more than the history vids.
@@BadnikMechanic side note, i'm so happy you returned, a couple of weeks ago i remember i talked with my friend about ur content and we talked about how we really missed ur content. great to see you returned!
@chickoless well I'm not planning on going anywhere, just that, projects like this will take a long time to finish.
Also didn't help the fact I finally caught covid during this one, and had to scrap most of my audio due to my voice sounding so bad lol
2:03:43 Actually it was their goal from the beginning to whip out all the staff members (except for Gearld) and capture the Ultimate Lifeform. What didn't go to plan was Maria sending Shadow down to earth.
16:25
This was originally a Sonic stage. So its non-importance to the plot makes sense.
Really enjoyed your perspective on this one, I agreed with a lot of it. I don't feel particularly strongly either way on SA2, I have so many problems with it, but I also appreciate quite a lot about it, too.
I think I'd really enjoy hearing what this game's biggest fans (the reasonable ones, that is) would say in response to some of your points, because I think I could see the value from both sides, even if I probably do skew more to the negative side.
Eyyy! Glad you managed to get around to watch this one!
Well it took a little over a week but I finally finished this! 😅 Your History and Analysis videos really make for some truly definitive retrospectives on games I thought had been covered thoroughly enough! That was another fun, entertaining and informative watch, whatever your next video may be I look forward to it!
2:03:25 Negotiating with the enemy is usually much better than trying to fight them with force, since there are a lot less casualties when it is successful as opposed to going to war. Also as far as the President knew, Eggman had a deadly laser that he could fire at any time anywhere. In addition, we don't actually see what the President's response would be to Eggman's demands or whatever plan he had in mind for dealing with this issue, since Sonic and Tails interrupt their meeting.
This was a very good analysis! I missed these videos of yours! I haven't played Sonic Adventure 2, but I have played 1and I agree with what you said about it.
17:27 Narratively speaking, it doesn't matter who wins since either way the cannon fails to fire and Gearld's final plan is activated.
In Adventure 1's cutscenes characters walking animations will stop before they stop moving. They also stop, then slide, then stop again.
... .... Yes?
Really enjoyed this video and it brought up a lot of things I had never considered before!
My one large disagreement comes with the music section. I rewatched the section a couple times and I still don’t feel that I understand your point as to why the musical focus shifting to being more character driven is a bad thing. The section where you swapped the tracks attempting to make a point especially confused me: these are two tracks with very different moods and I immediately felt that something was very off when you showed them, even ignoring story context. Shouldn’t the tense high security space have the faster and more tense track compared to the long dormant pyramid?
I also couldn’t tell if the mentions of Hunnid-P’s behavior were meant to be an offhand mention or an actual knock against the soundtrack. I appreciated the information since I actually didn’t know any of that, but I don’t think that’s what should be coming to mind when hearing those songs in game. To me it came off as if you were saying that’s why you don’t like the music in the Knuckles stages.
This section was a lot shorter than the rest and just didn’t feel as well developed as the rest of the video to me, I don’t know if you will ever see this comment but if you do I would really appreciate some further clarification. I hope this didn’t come off too negative: I loved this video and am very much looking forward to more from you!
I should've mentioned this in my comment I agree it was weird & unnecessary
2:09:27 The fact is that GUN hired and funded Gearild to have him build weapons. In fact, the Space Colony Ark was built as a research center to primarily build weapons. He only agreed to make these weapons to 1) have money and 2) because he thought that through the creation of these weapons, he might find other uses for the technology that are beyond just using them as weapons.
As I've said to you on many occasions now...
Where in the game do you learn this? :)
I'm not finished with the video yet but i really appreciate it so far. As a long time fan of SA2, I find that most videos in it are either too harsh or praise it too much. It's one of my most favorite games ever but it's by no means perfect. I actually think it's a great game despite its major flaws. I love the replayability of the stages, the Chao Garden is incredibly fun and I have spent way too much time in it, and I think Shadow is a super awesome character. But the story, while having cool ideas and really awesome moments, is very messily executed. I know the cutscene direction is very awkward because it's an old game and they had time restrictions, but I think they still could have afforded having better pacing and script writing. You do a great job pointing out where SA2 does well and offer good critiques with possible improvements where needed.
2:00:59 Shadow is not mind-controlled, he is brainwashed. Mind-control is when a person is in control of another person's thoughts and actions. Brainwashing is when you force a person to think a certain way, but you're not controlling their actions. Gerald did not control Shadow's actions, he merely made it so Shadow thought Maria wanted revenge. Shadow acted on his own accord.
1:52:31
I think the story, at least in English, is more so about some imposter putting Sonic under punishments that is for them.
He's back........
HES BACK!!!!!!!!
7:10 Sonic literally says in that same cutscene that the military had mistaken Shadow for Sonic. It's no mystery why Sonic is mad at Shadow.
Yes but... What did Shadow do? I go over this in the video around this time stamp.
Sonic may say, "Oh the military is actually mad at you!" But there's no explanation or clarification as to why, and when that explanation does come, it's in the 2nd most dull cutscene in the game.
2:06:00 You are assuming that the rooms we see in the games are all of the rooms in the Ark. You know else we don't see? Bedrooms or a kitchen. We also never see any first aid kits or fire extinguishers. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean that they don't exist.
japanese script mention got my senses tingling today
1:25:19 thank you so much for this scene lol
1:31:53 I don't really know if there's another method but I use that move in Rouge's fifth mad space mission it kind of seems required there.
2:13:36 That's not entirely true. They haven't been ignoring his development of weapons, they have just been explaining why he did it.
15:19 Knuckles had nothing better to do then to stop Sonic from getting to the Master Emerald. Shadow had other and more important things to do than to fight Sonic,
I’m sorry but I feel like you missed the point of sonic and shadows second introduction. They fight because:
1. Sonic got framed for shadows crime. Shadow is dangerous, committing crimes with a chaos emerald using a mysterious new ability, so he’d obviously fight him, not to mention that sonic is literally a fugitive cause of him.
2. Shadow is on a time sensitive mission to infiltrate the island and steal the emeralds and unfortunately runs into sonic, who rushed to attack him once and he knows is still mad at him. He also knows he’s fast and strong enough to take down hot shot, so he's a threat to him and their plans.
All of that is from cutscenes. The “ego” has nothing to do with it besides making it a bit more personal. It def could’ve been developed further but all of that is learned from following the story, no real extrapolation or reaching needed.
People are cooked without realizing, many will claim that literally anything and everything is reaching as long as it is not directly stated. So because both do not go for an awkward, dry and unnatural dramatalk about why they wanna fight, it is a reach.
@@lpfan4491 right. we did not need an anime inner thought monologue of "hey, that's the guy who I'm being framed for! he's obviously up to no good, and if I beat him, maybe I can get my name cleared!"
I replay the Biolizard boss fight in Genrations so many times, because I find it quite fun
The comparisons to the boost games reminds me how Pariah says SA2 is more like the boost games in its level design. Specifically referring to how narrow and reaction based it is, compared to SA1’s more open level design.
The myth, the legend, is back. You definitely deserve more subscribers than you actually do.
This was worth the wait. Excited to see more content from you in the future.🥳
Lol thanks! And I agree!
Feel free to share the vid with people!
1:15:17
I think this was a bad thing to do in the second speed level. If it was in Canon’s Core or Final Rush. It would’ve made more sense. But instead it’s in a very early level that can easily stress out new players. And even players trying to go for the A rank.
They should’ve at least made it 30 seconds long.
47:46 I always thought that she was thinking of Shadow, given the context of the scene.
2:05:38 Maria having an illness is only ever mentioned in one game, and that game is Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood. The only time it's mentioned in that game is in the in-game bio page for Gerald Robotnik. Also, Sonic Chronicles is a questionablely canon game at best. So instead of saying SA2 is bad because it doesn't show any signs of Maria having an illness, you should instead question whether or not Maria having an illness is actually canon.
Nice review a bit. I enjoyed the mech levels a lot. As you run and shoot everything in site.
Joke's on you, I _did_ notice that you swapped around _Lovely Gate 3 ...for Egg Quarters_ and _I'm a Spy! ...for Security Hall._ You're not fooling anyone with that old trick!
-Then again, if you do make a video on Frontiers, you could definitely get away with swapping the cyberspace stage music and no-one would notice-
Oh I have a far more devious "You don't even know what this is from do you" moment for that one!
Lets Go!! This is going to be epic! 😀
Wow dude. And I thought I was obsessed with Sonic Adventure. 😂
All kidding aside, amazing video, and props to all the work you had to put in for it! Super excited see you tackle Frontiers, or Heroes, or Generations!
Or maybe Robocop: Rouge City! Who knows!?
Watched this over the course of four days and, man, I learned a lot about the Adventure Games' history and your quips and jokes made me laugh a lot. Sigh... now I wish I could play the Adventure games. Alas, no money for a gaming PC or a console and even a copy of the game :')
Yoooo King Ice x Badnik Mechanic! Get that paper, hon!!
THIS WAS EPIC THANK YOU!
Thank you for watching it with me!
@BadnikMechanic thank you for making PEAK I'll never look at this game again!
I find Amy's character to be overhated in this game, and I want to defend her here. While she does lose the independence that her story in SA1 leaves us on, I think it comes down more to how the other's treat her over how she's treated herself. In SA1 Amy was presented as not being as strong as Sonic, Tails or Knuckles, she doesn't have the same experience they do and had to rely on other means just to even have a chance to keep up with them. And in her story, she defeats an Eggman robot, who would just be a mini boss to those guys, yet to Amy it proves she is capable, she proved that too herself and wanted to make Sonic respect her independence. She retains that confidence in SA2, but nobody else sees her that way, keep in mind her only feat was just defeating Eggman's robot, she still has competition with Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Rouge and Shadow, who are all not only shown to be more experienced, which puts Amy at unsteady footing, her being the weak link isn't due to her character, it's how everyone treats her, which yes, isn't good, but that's also the point, while Amy is confident and determined, she is also out of her league, this is shown when she learns that their adventure goes as far as to each the limits of outer space she puts her hand over her mouth and gasps, as if that's out of her limit, but still wants to go along with them anyway.
When it comes to Amy being held at Gunpoint by Eggman, I don't really find Amy to be a "damsel" here, because in actuality he's gotten everyone captured, he just used Amy as the vessel to keep them at bay. The culmination was to end with her contributing to the situation the way only SHE knew how to, using her compassion for people to influence Shadow to help the others. Which calls back to her emotional intelligence from SA1.
2:24:04
I think those posts are more so sympathetic to him, not supporting him.
as someone who yearns for an adventure 3, hard agree on that closing point. it may have gotten significantly closer with frontiers, but the series is still nowhere near in a state where i trust these mfs to make a competent one. however, especially with the rumors of a new adventure style game in the works, i feel like it’s very possible we could end up in a good position for it, we just have to see how they stick the landing
(please dear god do not let them call their first adventure style game in more than 18 years, being worked on by sonic team’s goddamn B team, “sonic adventure 3”)
I genuinely agree with Sonic Adventure being the better game but there are definitely enjoyable moments in Adventure 2 (the action stages obviously)
This video made me realize why I only play the speed multiplayer stages whenever I revisit
Great detailed analysis video. Even though it was this long I think that it was worth it to watch the whole video. Also I'm very impressed that through it you were talking about the better Dreamcast version of each of the Adventure games when almost every other person who makes a review about them talk about the ported version of whichever one of those games the person is reviewing. Especially when you showed that package of and footage the Dreamcast version of Sonic Adventure 1 when everyone else shows footage and a copy of the absolutely butchered DX ported version of that game! I do agree with your suspicion that Sonic 06 looks a lot like it could possibly be the true SA3 game even though it was never given that logo.
If you ever want to play a more polished version of it that also has quicker loading time, go for the PC fan-made remake of it from Chaos X called Project-06. It isn't totally complete yet but all the character stages are and he improved each one of them and what the characters play like in them a good amount. I've been planning to try it sometime after I get my own laptop PC later this year and a controller to use for any PC gaming.
HE'S BACK!!!
HES BACK
Question: Why do you want the Hero Side Story to start with you playing as Shadow? Or conversely, Why do you want the player to be forced to play the Dark Side Story first?
I literally explain this in the video...
7:43 I always play Dark Story first, because Shadow is the coolest and I want to play as him.
OK but how would you know that if this is your first time playing this game?
1:30:40 lol I had no idea there was this "rotate-attack"... I think back then I opened these boxes by hovering above them and then dive/dig-bombing them from above.
13:44 It does not affect Shadow's character in future games.
Is there any updates on the Sonic and Sally Statue?
It's still dead.
THERE'S AT LEAST FOUR OF THEM I KNOW! AND I'M SURE ONE OF THEM IS REAL!!!
X'D
I FOUND ONE!!
As much as i like this game, you did bring up a lot of issues i had with the game's story.
I've never considered Shadow as a Sonic rival because of how poorly their rivalry is built up throughout this game. And later games dont reallu do better as they simply just imply they are rivals and everyone knows it.
1:31:44
This reminds me of an uppercut move you can preform if you toggle through your X/B abilities with the Y button. Which is I think another way you access Rouge’s version of a he move if I recall correctly.
I only used it on some bell looking things in Meteor heard. Which I don’t think is mandatory.
I like the 1st 1 better as well. This game does give me memories though tbh.
I have the same hopes for Sonic Adventure 3 as I do for Sonic Chronicles 2. And that's to say, I don't see it happening.
16:47 I'd like to imagine that Tails' and Eggman's mechs were either destroyed during the fight or badly damaged
17:57 I'd also argue that it's possible Sonic may have just threw the fake emerald into the cannon itself before Eggman was able to even put the real emerald into the console
Just started the video and you said they don't show the bank heist etc, but isn't that the security hall level with rouge and shadow stealing the emeralds? or is that the wrong order
No that comes after, but I just had to double check to make sure since it's so confusing with how messy the story is told.
Eggman releases shadow,
Rouge goes to steal master emerald...
Whilst Rouge is doing this, Shadow is off doing the bank heist (we don't get to see it).
Radical highway is the Shadow stage showing the escape from the bank.
Then, the team meet Rouge and they go to prison island/security vault to take the other emeralds.
Thanks for responding, I getcha! Man I love this game but it really is a mess isn't it lmao
I really like Shadow's music
2:53:11
Or that it’s a modern styled Sonic game. So it would logically take place after Mania.
This is an amazingly and expertely written video which also infuriated me (in a serene, mellow way) about how little can me and you, both fans of the same games, we see eye to eye. I rolled my eyes at the "playing the sequel, you can really see how the first game didn't quite hit the mark", as I feel like Sonic Team actually never managed to hit the mark they hit with that first game! And I don't meant this to disrespect your opinion, as the SA2 way of being a Sonic game is good it's in own way. But how do you "improve" or direct a franchise when this wildly different opinion of a game and it's direct sequel exist!
It's a long one so I haven't finished it but the writing is amazing, interesting, and gripping. I'll be watching all the way through.
I guess this is kinda a negative comment but I dislike how no Sonic fan can remove their biases when talking about the other eras. This goes to both dark era and meta/automation era. We can't pretend every Sonic games has featured increasing automated segments even in the classic games. Naming an era about a problem present in the whole franchise feels personally disingenuous. Adventure and Boost era have none of the baggage and are perfect descriptors. Unleashed? Boost era. Lost World? Boost era! The game has no boost but the same level design principles of a boost game are right there, like an infection they can't remove even without the boost itself.
I think your comment is fine :)
But to try and address one thing... when it comes to naming "eras".
There was a time when it was easy, classic/modern or 2D/3D, yes there were exceptions, but if you said "2D Game," odds are, people would instantly know to which you were speaking about, you don't need to simplify too much of your points because you both have the same frame of reference....
However... over time, the 3D era has diversified, SA-Heroes plays very little to how Generations - Frontiers plays, so it makes sense to try and link some of these games under a new word...
However.... Strictly speaking, when it comes to the 3D games, there's never truly been a "cut off point," it's very hard to say "the adventure era ended here!" Since 06 is sort of a mix between the adventure era and boost era, and unleashed also has one foot in the adventure era sandpit too...
So in theory you could come up with naming conventions to link any set of games you like. But with the 3D games, it becomes much more complicated.
From Uhleashed/colours -> Frontiers, I normally call it the "Automated" or "Spectacle" era... just because it more accurately describes the experience on the player, the emphasis of the effort isn't as much on them, it's guaranteed spectacle over the player making epic moments.
The word "Meta" isn't a very good one to describe any series of games for me, just down to 2 reasons.
1: it doesn't accurately describe the experience you get from the games.
2: It's highly misleading. Sonic games have been 'Meta' and contained Meta humor/elements/self referential awareness since Sonic 1 on the Mega Drive.
It doesn't make much sense to call it "Meta Era", since it's always been that way, but it now happens to be more obviously because, 1. The games came out when Meta humor was becoming more common and 2. The jokes were more obvious and not many people liked them.
Very strange to hear MegaDrive's Batman OST in Sonic video. Damn, how old I am...
It somehow goes really well with Sonic footage!
I still think Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 is Sonic Adventure 3 because Silver. How does he come back in Sonic Forces? Same reason has Shadow but the fans hated it!
OK in future when i will start to make retrospective/analysis of video games, i will make sure to never make a Sonic Adventure 2 video because there is no way i could add anything that you havent said
Like with most things, I love both Adventure games for what they do differently, even if my preferences lean more toward the second one. I personally come back to SA2 more often because of it's replay value is the highest of any Sonic game I've played, with characters that feel better to control (Mech stages became an acquired taste cuz you just have to deal). SA1 has more going on and I love hub worlds in Sonic games, but I never find myself going through the stages more than once outside of a playthrough of the main story. The ranking system and emblem hunting feels more robust and it makes me want to keep playing long after the credits roll, improving my knowledge and skill of the game's mechanics as a result.
Im also a crazy person who prefers SA2 treasure hunter over SA1's, because I feel the characters control much better so it made navigating the environment a breeze (but I wasn't always good at them). The spin dash is better in SA1, but I love how Sonic controls overall in SA2. In regards to the story, it was something gripped me when I younger, but grew to appreciate more as I got older watching (2+ hour long☠) videos that go into the games backstory and original translation. Love both stories tho so it depends on what im feelin that day.
That's essentially where Im coming from with my love for this game; the valid criticisms aren't enough to hinder my enjoyment of SA2. Hell a good portion of those idiosyncrasies I find endearing, regardless of how it was put together or it's initial intent. The kinds of little details that make me a bit wary of Adventure remakes being made at this current juncture, even if it'll help new fans experience the games with a better quality of life. That being said, I'd feel a lot differently if Sonic was voiced by Max Mittleman and not Roger Craig Smith (my only hang up with Sonic these days is my preference of voice cast), but this comment is has gotten long enough. Rest easy heroes!
1:31:30 you can do the tripple kick attack to get it
3:45 tax fraud.
Got me too
1:31:29 I went through all the treasure hunting stages without needing that move at all, until I did the hard mode for rouge mad space. That move was necessary to get an emerald shard.
1:31:30 You can just do the third attack of Rouge's standing attack combo. Seems weird to me that people got stuck breaking floating boxes so close to the ground. If it were higher up and needed the corkscrew kick, I'd get the confusion.
Talking about the UN Security Council in our SA2 analysis (love that)
Come for the SA2 analysis... stay for the Structure of the Western Democratic Process!!!
SA2’s story wouldn’t work super well with Adventure fields. As it’s over wide map of the world. Maybe if they did it like Unleashed, it could work?
But I do see your point.
I bet for fans who’s been playing almost every Sonic game since Sonic 1 up to SA2, it probably help the impact of the story if you will. But not everyone, especially with it being the first Sonic game on Nintendo, would have been able to do that. And it could easily be their first game.
But tbh, I while the adventure fields aren’t there to make me care more. I still don’t want the entire world and everyone on it to be destroyed you know?
2:28:57
Not to mention that he hired Rouge to gather info for him.
1:55:23
He so doesn’t look at her that the developers forgot to program his eye lids being open. /j