Tune & Test Custom Injection Timing

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
  • Olly adjust his VW 1.6L turbodiesel injection timing to 0.030" and takes it for a spin. Downright dope results :D
    Cheers

КОМЕНТАРІ • 54

  • @Mikefngarage
    @Mikefngarage 2 місяці тому +1

    Hey Oliver, I'm a bit stumped on my 1.9 l aaz. It was running perfect before I parked it a few years back. Then I went to start it and it wouldn't start because the veins were stuck. So rather than rebuilding it, I decided just to buy a new one from Hans Auto parts. Again, we know the reputation. But I've had pretty good luck with their pump rebuilds. I just know there's a possibility I'm going to have to take it apart. The new pump was a 9 mm. My old one I found out was an 8 mm. Even with the eight it ran pretty good. Would burn the tires through first and second easily. It has one of the Hans Auto parts turbo kits on it. Fyi, they work pretty good. So I have the timing set at 1 mm. Fuel screw pretty much maxed. But it's not really blowing a lot of black smoke, just mostly gray. Dark gray. When it's floored, it revs up to about 2500 RPMs then it starts to pop like it's hitting the rev limiter. And starts to slow down. Feels like it's running on quarter throttle. So I took the whole pump apart and checked every little part in. It seems to me everything is correct. I'm using the same spring actuator from my original pump just to see if it was that. Didn't change much. So I decided to try and rebuild my 8 mm pump and was unsuccessful and ended up accidentally breaking the 8 mm shaft. I have taken the whole thing apart twice and still can't see anything that would change it... Any ideas?

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  2 місяці тому

      Hmmm that's a toughy! If I were you I would start with having it apart & checking everything in extreme detail against a schematic. ua-cam.com/video/HciSSYuXxdY/v-deo.htmlsi=IorJbbds9uuVw-YI this link is to my vid where my car wouldn't start when I left a spacer out... Seems similar, ALSO in the description there is a part diagram/photo of exactly how the pump SHOULD be, definitely take a look at that. If it otherwise would be working (like ran well before) then you might need to suspect the quality of what you purchased. I'd also be asking questions like: how's the filter? How old is the diesel fuel? Is there water in the fuel?

  • @YouMarlon
    @YouMarlon 2 місяці тому +1

    That's really impressive for a 1.6😯 Keep up the good work 💯

  • @Mikefngarage
    @Mikefngarage 2 місяці тому +2

    I have run them at 1mm for a long time with no issues.

    • @Mikefngarage
      @Mikefngarage 2 місяці тому +1

      But that's with stock fuel system. I had a 1.6 with TDI turbo on it. 9 mm fuel pump. It was an early block 1980 and they crack at the corners. The Early 1.6 blocks had Six point head bolts. That's how you know. Then I went a AAZ with an 8 mm pump turned up all the way and I ran that at 1 mm. I suppose if you're running a lot more fuel it's better if the timing comes later. To push the Piston down.

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  2 місяці тому

      Me too! But this set up is super Frankenstein, unfortunately the stock range just doesn't apply

  • @ChrisGR93_TxS
    @ChrisGR93_TxS 3 місяці тому +2

    the jerking at tiny throttle position is actually a rly fine line between idle injection and the throttle actuator, if you push the governor too much and leave no space for the actuator to come fully back and seal' it jumps back and forth giving and cutting fuel.

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  3 місяці тому

      That tracks, is there a remedy for it in the adjustment of the pump?

    • @ChrisGR93_TxS
      @ChrisGR93_TxS 3 місяці тому +1

      @@OliverFetter yeah, release a bit the fuel screw if your main control lever is already full back. i didn't play much with it but its a common problem especially when the engine is up to temperature.
      *at my understanding is that with max feed the fuel screw keeps it from fully closing (it doesn't have space to come back and fully close the fuel plunger and or its loose due to spring weakness at that position and with vibrations its jerking back and forth letting fuel to escape)

    • @Mikefngarage
      @Mikefngarage 2 місяці тому +2

      im trying to figure why mine wont rev up past about 25ooRpm. if I rev it past that it starts popping like its hitting the rev limiter then drops back. My old pump worked great and ran perfect but the truck sat for a while and the veins got stuck. So I put in a new one. Tore it down and checked every part in there. Green seals. everything is perfect from what I can tell. I was going to rebuild the 8mm pump that was in it but when I was putting it together I snapped the 8mm shaft somehow. So I put a 9mm in there and it does what it does now. Never did that before and it pulled real hard up to about 4000rpm with 12lbs boost. Any ideas. Like its running on 1/4 throttle right now.

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  2 місяці тому

      @@Mikefngarage kinda sounds like it's not getting enough fuel. Are the supply lines, filter, etc clear & good? Is the vein pump in ok shape? I've had pumps act like they're stalling or about to cut out bc my inline pump wasn't turned on & it was acting as a restriction while off

  • @austinmaxi
    @austinmaxi 3 місяці тому +2

    Don't forget that the TDI cam plate ramp up is far more aggressive or quicker than the IDI, that's why at stock advance it gives you the knock. Backing the timing off also moves peak cylinder pressure further after TDC so you get more expansion pushing the piston down rather than it not being able to do much (The knock sound) another benefit is more exhaust to spool the turbo

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  3 місяці тому

      Yes! I was mentally factoring that in as well. All the parts working together to create early timing. The additional exhaust is definitely noticable 💯💯

  • @ThatGuyReth
    @ThatGuyReth 3 місяці тому +2

    hey dude, just found your channel been watching videos in your catalog like crazy, really appreciate the time you've spent documenting this build.
    I recently bought a SUPER clean '84 Rab with a standard 1.6L (non-td) engine. Was planning on converting to gas, running a 1.8T for autocross, but after seeing your videos I'm reconsidering keeping it Diesel and just swapping in a 1.6TD or an ALH-style TDI into it. Wouldn't exactly be a sleeper 😂but very fun build. And since you also have BOTH of those engines, do you have any engine recommendations for me if I take the Diesel route? I'm also super curious what your ECU setup is. Are you running a standalone ECU or did you chip-tune the stock TD? And you've got the Arduino to set up different boost profiles for you I think? Super nutty but almost seems necessary to reduce the lag. I dig it man.
    Anyways, appreciate the content! Let me know what you think!

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  3 місяці тому

      Hey thanks! I appreciate it 🙏 glad you find them helpful.
      I have not finished building/installing my TDI engine yet but I have high expectations. I'm very pleased with where the 1.6L is at the moment... Pretty fast! My 1.6 is rather injured as well, I have about 65% of like new compression. This on its own doesn't really matter but it blows oil everywhere and I don't like that. SO instead of reworking the 1.6 again I figured I should try an ALH since it's literally the same thing just built better & direct injection. I figure I can directly transfer my entire turbo & manifold set up to the new engine and pickup a free 100-200 HP.. which will bring its own set of problems. I see some people say the 1.9 swap isn't worth it (power/response wise) but they clearly don't know how to tune a diesel in the first place. I'm sure a stock 1.9l sucks lol.
      So in that department it depends what you're looking for. If you want to project & tune a diesel till it's on kill mode then it's super fun :D if you want to swap an engine without much tuning probably swap the gasser.

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  3 місяці тому

      The 1.6 is entirely mechanical, I'm just using the Arduino to control the turbo vane position. It essentially reads intake & exhaust manifold pressure & decides if the vanes should be opened more or closed more. I'm not a 100% sold on the control system so I might try a mechanical VNT actuator as well. Either way I want to start measuring air density all over the engine to be able to tune it better.
      Happy trails!

    • @Mikefngarage
      @Mikefngarage 2 місяці тому +2

      Dude, go with The AAZ for autocross. The power band is just off of idle. 1.6 takes a little more time to spool and has a power band in mid RPMs The AAZ 1.9 power band is from around 1,000 RPMs to 4000 evenly with a turbo. When mine is running right, I can let the clutch out while it's idling and then floor it and the tires come loose immediately. And that was with an 8 mm pump. Put an 11 on there and it will come alive

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  2 місяці тому +1

      @@Mikefngarage sounds pretty tight!!

  • @MillersMotors
    @MillersMotors 3 місяці тому +1

    I think the jerking is from the gov mod where you took out the idle spring..for a spacer- did you keep it that way?

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  2 місяці тому

      Good thoughts!! Short answer - no. This is a different pump than the gold one. Giles actually did the gov mod a long time ago, I've since upgraded it to a 11mm head & TDI rotor. Only started lurching after that upgrade. Timing doesn't seem to affect the lurch. Seems like I should play with pump settings potentially. Any ideas are welcome!

  • @chrisladouceur4093
    @chrisladouceur4093 2 місяці тому +1

    I just changed my injection timing on my 1.6TD. Was at 0.90 from previous owner. Advanced it to 1.05. It sounded rough before. Quick drive with it now and it seems to clack a little more but honestly not much. Seems to vibrate a bit more but more smoothly, if that makes sense. Also feels like it has just a little more power behind it (niice). What was your experience playing with this on the 1.6td? How far is too far? Thanks brotha

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  2 місяці тому +1

      Right on! I feel like 1.05 is really the furthest you want to go, it's only going to get more clacky and less responsive past that. I would run my stock pumps around .95-1.0mm with good results.

    • @chrisladouceur4093
      @chrisladouceur4093 2 місяці тому +1

      @@OliverFetter Yeah this is all stock. I definitely don't think advancing it anymore would help. Next time I time everything I might bring it back a little. Maybe 1.00. I need to have my injectors rebuilt and the breaking pressure verified though before I settle on anything. Have you tried different nozzles?

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  2 місяці тому +1

      I have not. In my experience the nozzles are not the restriction in the system 👍

    • @chrisladouceur4093
      @chrisladouceur4093 2 місяці тому +1

      @@OliverFetter that was my initial thought as well. But it seems that fueling and EGTs are. From the searching I’ve done, the only difference between the 68hp and 75hp 1.6TDs was a small stock intercooler and bigger (“GTD”) nozzles. So there’s some gain to be made there. But more importantly it seems that when you crank the fueling on these pumps you are prolonging the injection duration and that results in much high EGTs. Larger nozzles means shorter injection duration and lower EGTs. At least that’s my understanding?

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  2 місяці тому +1

      🤔🤔🤔 I think that makes sense?? I'm having trouble wrapping my head around if nozzles actually make the injection event shorter. I feel like I've heard from multiple sources that they're not the thing to go after but those sources may have been forums 😂 so we know that can't be too helpful. You're 100% right about egt & injection duration. For me upgrading to a larger pump head was the fix, more fuel delivered per stroke = less need to prolong the duration. Being rather ignorant of the nozzles dilemma, id chalk most of that hp gain up to the intercooler. Denser air = more hp.

  • @jeffwhittall3017
    @jeffwhittall3017 3 місяці тому +1

    Did you happen to notice if your EGTs lowered after retarding the timing? Also, did you tinker with the fueling at all or only the timing?

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  3 місяці тому

      Hmm ya know I didn't make a point of observing that difference 🤔 shame on me. I would like to say they're a bit lower but I would definitely have to review some video footage to be confident in that. it's tough too bc I don't have a "metered pull" I do that's repeatable, hard to tell if temps or lower or if I just hit the gas for a shorter period of time 🤔🙈 I didn't touch fueling at all!! Which I thought was cool. Crazy response difference.

  • @antonaberg5238
    @antonaberg5238 3 місяці тому +1

    Hey great vid! What K value did you get in your Mtdi pump if you ever measured it?

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  3 місяці тому +1

      Not sure what a K value is, educate me!!

    • @austinmaxi
      @austinmaxi 3 місяці тому +2

      @@OliverFetter "K" value is the measurement / clearance between the plunger head and the plunger at its max lift. Its set by selecting the correct thicknesses of spacer between the plunger foot and the cam-plate, to move the plunger closer to, or away from, the plunger head.

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  3 місяці тому +2

      Gotcha that makes sense

  • @yordan1417
    @yordan1417 3 місяці тому +1

    What radiator are you using and what fans because i what to upgrade my golf mk2 cooling

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  3 місяці тому

      TBH I'm really not sure. Its a 2 core radiator with aftermarket electric fans & a shroud I made myself. I actually have 0 evidence it does a better job cooling than the OEM radiator and fan, however it does package better and allow me to place the intercooler 💁👌

  • @bryceribken183
    @bryceribken183 2 місяці тому +1

    Hey man, who do you like to use for VW parts?

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  2 місяці тому

      Depends on what it is! I find PartsPlaceInc is pretty helpful & has a huge selection & solid quality, none of it is performance oriented though. For performance parts I look for smaller suppliers usually on an as needed basis depending on what it is.. steering, rods, etc

    • @bryceribken183
      @bryceribken183 2 місяці тому +1

      @@OliverFetter in one of your videos you showed some improvements on the shifting linkage for the rabbit. I have an 81 rabbit pickup and the existing linkage drives me kinda nuts. P.S. thanks for being so good at responding to comments.

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  2 місяці тому

      @@bryceribken183 right on. I have the USRT 020 linkage in mine & it's solid. I remember it being more annoying than I had hoped when installing it but it definitely cleans up the spongy original feel

  • @GWinvader101
    @GWinvader101 3 місяці тому

    Interesting idea putting an MTDI pump on your 1.6. I took my 1.6 out and put in a MTDI ahu. Going to be making some videos about getting it roughed in on my other TDI channel.
    I roadtrip my mk2 so all the failures I had with the boosted 1.6 made me too uncomfortable to keep pursuing using it. Now it’s in my garage and I have no idea what to do with it.

    • @GWinvader101
      @GWinvader101 3 місяці тому +2

      Also if you’re breaking fuel lines inspect the 4th bolt that holds the injection pump on below the delivery valves. If that bolt is not tight the extra vibration will break the injector lines over and over.
      Not the end of the world on a 1.6 but if you do it on an AHU those injection lines are unobtanium.

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  3 місяці тому +1

      That's cool, what kind of failures were you experiencing? You should slap it in a boat or a go kart

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  3 місяці тому +1

      That's an interesting point! I always keep the pump locked down so I don't think it's from that. I also used to take the rubber/metal grouping clamps off bc I thought it looked better lol definitely didn't help

    • @GWinvader101
      @GWinvader101 3 місяці тому +1

      @@OliverFetter I turbod it, blew the headgasket, got arp studs, blew the head gasket again, turned the boost WAAAY down, blew the head gasket again, I couldn’t go 90mph without overheating
      Somewhere in that list it started getting really hard to start, ran GREAT on a roll. Would not start on the starter. I spent SO much money trying to figure that out. Internally it looked fine. Nothing wrong. Visibly. Checked timing, checked for air, checked the shut off solenoid, put an mk4 starter, nothing would do it.
      I’d have to ask my neighbor to help give me a push in the morning when no one else was around.
      All this just to make like 70hp and have the absolute worst gearing for the highway. I have lots of TDIs so I just needed the MTDI pump I had everything else to do the swap.
      Side note I’m getting insane mileage in this mk2 with MTDI pump. Anywhere from 57-70MPG with TWO kayaks on the roof. Nearly double what I got in the 1.6

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  3 місяці тому +1

      @@GWinvader101 huh those are some wild symptoms 🤔🙈 never had problems like that with mine. Certainly seems like they run hot though. That mileage is wild!! Nice

  • @thegoblingarage
    @thegoblingarage 2 місяці тому +1

    Do you run a lift pump for your car?

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  2 місяці тому

      Yes, I have a 12v inline that does 4-7psi & 35gph. Nothing too crazy.

  • @CrAzZyTheCodingBoss
    @CrAzZyTheCodingBoss 3 місяці тому +1

    Wait until you add more fuel 😂😂 Turn you Will ser reAl results 🎉🎉🎉🎉

    • @khester7397
      @khester7397 3 місяці тому

      Dude, the whole choke point with these idi diesels is fuel delivery. You think you're saying something useful, but you're not.

    • @CrAzZyTheCodingBoss
      @CrAzZyTheCodingBoss 3 місяці тому

      ​​@@khester7397i can tell you never tuned any idi by yourself did you ?
      I can break an injector because of excess fuel, and this is not the case so far,,,

    • @OliverFetter
      @OliverFetter  3 місяці тому +1

      Welp idk why I would try to break an injector lol that's not terribly useful. If anything, I would consider pulling fuel rn for the sake of working on other aspects of the tune with less cylinder pressure, risk, and egt's. Yes. Fuel obviously makes these haul ass, it's also a great way to break things. I'm not concerned with the fueling because it's an 11mm head on a 1.6l - overkill at my fingertips. But I'm not going to blow my turbo & melt things bc I'm playing with other tuning with a kill amount of fuel. Also being too rich is dumb. Heat & soot are not the goal lol its manifold air density & good AFR makes the power 🫡

    • @khester7397
      @khester7397 3 місяці тому +1

      ​@@OliverFetter Wow, I didn't realize the 11mm head would give so much more fuel. That's awesome!