308 Winchester Hornady Outfitter vs Superformance CX Ballistics Gel Ammo Test
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- Опубліковано 28 жов 2024
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308 Winchester Hornady Outfitter vs Superformance CX 165 grain ammo ballistics gel test using a Ruger American with 22 inch barrel.
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All shots are fired from a distance of 100 yards to encompass the majority of common real world hunting scenarios.
I will be shooting into 10% ballistics gel from www.clearballi... that has been calibrated to meet the FBI ballistics testing protocol.
While ballistics gel isn’t an exact proxy for big game, small game, predators or defensive situations, it does provide a repeatable medium through which to test various bullets and ammunitions against each other.
With each type of ammo tested I collect data on bullet penetration depth, bullet weight retention, bullet expansion, muzzle velocity and impact velocity.
For reference, bullet expansion is measured at the widest expanded point using a calibrated Frankford Arsenal Digital Caliper.
Bullet weight is measured using a calibrated Frankford Arsenal Digital Scale after having removed as much ballistics gel as possible from the expanded bullets.
Muzzle velocity is measured using a Garmin Xero C1 Pro Chronograph. Impact velocity is a mathematical estimate.
My goal with these ballistics gel tests is to provide hunters like you and I with the most objective information possible to help us make the best choice for our particular hunting situation.
The results of these tests are my own and I cannot guarantee the same or similar performance on your part. The views and opinions expressed in this video are solely my own.
All videos are filmed in a safe and controlled environment on a private range with all applicable safety precautions by a trained professional.
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Really appreciate your videos and the knowledge you share. Hope you can do a 270 cx bullet soon
Enjoyed the video. I have used Barnes TTSX in 130 grain in 308 win, they are very fast and they expand very well.
Me too
I’m in that camp as well. The only round I hand load for.
Hornady brass, federal gold medal match primer, varget powder.
Everything from song dogs, to bull elk. I have a self imposed limit of 300 yards, for just north of 2200 fps impact velocity.
Never. Fails. 👍
I can confirm, the 130 TSX load is awesome
For comparison my Bergara premier approach 6.5 prc factory 130 grain terminal ascent 3150-3180 fps, zero 200 yards at 425 yards 9 inches of drop.
@@wahyasaquii7563 Just curious, have you tried TAC or BL-C(2)?
I've had the best overall performance with the old Hornady Interbond bullets. Thanks for the video.
Glad to be of service!
I've purchased two of your hand made leather buttstock shell holders for my 30-30 and Marlin SBL 45-70. Masterpiece artwork that lasts!!
Glad to be of service!
Can confirm, the hand made leather is top notch. Got a sling and a cuff for my 45-70, couldn't be happier with them.
When I switched over to copper bullets, I was concerned about the expansion at 308 velocities so I contacted Barnes directly.
They replied that the 168gr TTSX was specifically designed for the relative slow velocities of the 308 and 30-06. According to Barnes, the minimum impact velocity required for the 168gr and 180gr to expand is 1500fps vs the 2000fps required for the rest of the 30 cal lineup. I have had good results with the 168gr on bigger game like Kudu and Gemsbuck. The results on smaller game like Impala was not so great.
Excellent videos.
Few things to be aware of regarding the .308 168TTSX. I too have seen a reply from Barnes stating the 168 gr TTSX has a minimum expansion velocity of 1500FPS, however Barnes also stated that this was based on their water tank testing. Something to take into consideration as water is probably the easiest medium to get a bullet to expand in. The other important point is the same 168gr. TTSX has a minimum recommended ROT of 1:11. To get a BC of .470 with the 168gr TTSX it has to be a very long bullet hence the faster twist rate needed. If your .308 has a ROT of 1:12 don't be concerned about penetration with the 130gr. TTSX as they are not easy to stop.y Although the 130gr TTSX has a lower bc of .350 they start out around 3200 fps in a 308 Win which still provides a pretty damn flat trajectory. Hope this helps someone trying to pick which bullet to hunt with.
Great video. I love the comparison videos. Keep up the good work!!
Glad to be of service!
Just bought a case of 6.5 creed in the Outfitter and a case of 308 Superformance! Great info, thanks again!
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Love the comparison test!
Thanks!
Both of these loadings shoot well in my newer tikka ember in 308W. Will be testing these this fall on mi whitetail followed by saskatchewan deer in december. Will report back on field results. Great video.
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Got excited cuz you said " interesting to see how well this stuff preforms out of the 16 inch barrel on my ruger american " ....I donno why you gotta get all us ruger ranch guys all excited....lol just bought a 16 inch gen 2 in 308..
Keep up the great work. Recently chronographed some 150 gr barnes vortex 30-06 ttsx bt out of a m1 garand and got roughly 3010 average for 3 shots. I was surprised to get box velocity.
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In copper 165 is a bit heavy for 308. I’d love to see the Barnes 130 vs Barnes 150.
There are those who say that the 150 is the sweet spot in the 30 caliber range. I personally use the 130 grainer.
It would be VERY interesting to see how much difference there is between them.
Especially from someone who is as diligent and experienced as Mason.
The dude just has skills. 👍
@@wahyasaquii7563 that’s what I was thinking as well. Generally speaking copper is lighter so my understanding is a 150 grain lead core is the same dimensions roughly as the 130 grain. 50 copper is roughly the same size as of 167 lead core. I know velocity is more important with copper for full expansion so the 130s are what a lot of people say or the best
@@mr.mr.3301As I understand (or maybe don’t, lol) it, everything you’ve said is true. I only know of the 175 being an LRX, but word is the 168 mimics it fairly well. Problem is the diminished velocity of both in the 308 case…so I picked the 130.
I still get 300 yards from my 20” barrel and plenty of terminal ballistics.
I’m good with that.
@@wahyasaquii7563 I would be too. Sounds perfect for woods hunters
I second that!
Thx Mason!
Glad to be of service!
Great show and thanks again for the info 👍👍👍👍😀
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I feel the superformance was made for the 308. It really shines in this caliber.
Yeah! And 6,5x55 too. It shoots too good. And also, one of the cheaper factory ammos. What's not to like?❤
Great video 👍🏼
Thanks!
I like the idea of the outfitter line with the sealed cases, but I’m not sure I understand why it doesn’t get the superformance velocities. It shoots extremely well in my 30-06 and I have some 165s to test in 308.
Great video! I would really like to see you do more monolithic bullets in 308 such as Barnes ttsx and Winchester copper impact.
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I use a super format.Many times on different hunts My rifle likes.
It really well and it's always performed well on dear zibu.And elk
Awsome test. Those cx's really penetrate. And man, they are long I can only imagine how long the 180 grain are.
Don't think there is a 180 in 30 caliber.
Glad to be of service!
It shoot a 30 cal 180 grain CX out of my 300 WSM.
@@adamshaw8214 there is but they wouldn't be loading it in the .308
@@adamshaw8214 There is. Too long to fit in a .308 however 30'06 and the .30 caliber magnums use it.
Your comments had me check the Hornady website to see if their SST bullets are solid copper. I prefer lead core bullets myself and found such is the case for SST bullets, which are also available as a Superformance load. My Winchester Featherweight chambered in 25-06 loves the Superformance ammo.
The Superformance line is in many different bullets now.
@@RMM--uv7uk Thanks for that heads up.
Nicely done. 165 grain is my favorite for the 308 winny. Nice to know the Superformance is actually faster than Outfitter. Im not a copper guy, except for the 257 Weatherby. 90gn. CX is just awesomely fast & accurate. Love what you do😊. If i could suggest a
30.06, Remington 180 gn. round nose.
Go to ammo in PA for Whitetail.
Much appreciated.
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Interesting. If I’m hunting something that requires that much penetration, I’m not using a 308. Thanks for posting.
Glad to be of service! I don’t disagree
If it’s the difference between shooting a magnum poorly or a lower caliber well, those copper bullets really allow the lower caliber to punch above their weight. Personally, even if I go with the magnum, I’m going with the copper bullets. For anything under 400 yards (aka 95% of hunting), a copper bullet just has unmatched consistency. They’re only held back by mediocre BC values.
They’re also incredible for shooting game that is small for the caliber you are using. A light for caliber copper bullet going out at Mach Jesus simultaneously hits like lightning without completely destroying the animal with over expansion.
Cool comparison...Even though apples to apples
Good point/take
Remember -- gel penetration != mammal tissue penetration. That could be 50% of gel depth. So, these seem really nice. And, I like not eating lead bits, too.
Choosing ammo by the look of the box. AttaBoy!
Another great video, Thank you.
Glad to be of service!
I just picked up a Ruger Gunsite Scout rifle in .308 Win. Haven't taken it out to shoot it yet. Haven't decided on what brand or gr ammo to use. Your video has given me good info on ammo and will be trying them out. Only difference is that you have a 22" barrel on your rifle my Gunsite Scout only has a 16" barrel, I think. Haven't measured it yet
Glad to be of service!
@masonoutdoors_masonleather And Thank You for all of your very informative videos. You have provided me with good info on several other caliber rifles that I own
We’ve been waiting on this video more than we’ve been waiting on a new Willie Nelson album!!
Glad to be of service!
Great review, unless your going out to the extreme range of the 308, the Outfitter should work fine on tough critters.
Glad to be of service!
Cool video. Hoping for nosler partition and winchester super X
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Thanks for the effort you put into your videos. BTW, I would highly recommend you try some Barnes 130gr TTSX IN 308 Win. Old habits die hard and most folk think of a 130gr 308 win bullet as light for caliber. If we were comparing traditional lead bullets than yes that would be a fair statement. As your videos have demonstrated 100% copper bullets behave different than lead. In order to maximize terminal performance using copper bullets you typically need to shoot a lighter bullet which enables you to push them at a higher velocity.
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@masonoutdoors_masonleather I took you up on that. I'm all to familiar with the costs associated with what you do.
Ever tried the sellier & bellot copper bullets? They are awsome! Taken roe deer and wildboar with 'em. Shoots like a dream in my 308 blaser r8, bergara b14 extreme hunter and sako 75 ss. 🎉
Pull the bullets and measure the powder in each. I’d bet the Super have an extra grain in them. Each of them is probably set at an accuracy node.
SUPERFORMANCE.. get'n it done. two holes are better than one. The cx competes well with other copper. thanks for doing these demos 😄
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300 Magnums with monolithic bullet tests please.
40ish fps slow is right on par with box velocity. They test out of a 24" barrel. That's a lot closer than what quite a few others are doing compared to advertised velocity.
The can helps a little bit
Great info but I think when comparing the same bullet with different velocities, accuracy testing the two would be more important for me. I know every rifle is different and might like either one of these loadings differently than the next guys but I’d still like to see the groups in a test like this.
I just bought 3 - 4 boxes of the super performance SST 165 in .308- im hearing alot of people have trouble with these balling before it goes through the hide etc. Do you think this will be ok to hunt with based off your findings or should i look into a barnes ttsx etc. I may also be hunting elk this year now im feeling a bit nervous about it
Awesome video, do you have the Hornady ECX in the US? i Would like to see you test that, maybe a 150 g vs 165 g
Can you, or do you plan to, do the Sig Elite Hunter copper ammo?
Did you compare accuracy between the two?
If so, which one was best?
I using the Superformance 165 cx ammo in mu 30/06 with great accuracy and velocity.
I’m getting 2935 fps out of a 22” barrel with 1.25” groups at 100 yards. That is great for normal hunting ranges.
Hit the blocks, block face smaller than deer vitals, in almost 200 loads tested there have been maybe 3 that weren’t plenty accurate enough to hunt with.
As deep as these penetrate in all that gel, I wonder how much expansion there would be going through a whitetail. Might be concerned they could pencil hole through without opening up as much. Curious what results people have had for exit wounds and blood trails. Not specifically thinking of 308 but just in general with this line of bullets.
Nice. With ya testing would they perform the same if ya put fresh hide inch gel fresh shoulder blade then block of gel. Better or worse. More bloody work but true scenario for hunting.
I do 20+ of these a day sometimes, I don’t have a refrigerator truck to keep a bunch of meat and bones and hide and such in, nor the money for it
@@masonoutdoors_masonleather 👍
I wouldnt advise to go long with this stuff. initial velocity is low to ok, but the high impact velocity required for decent expansion, the narrow wounding, and the low b.c. make these bullets one of the poorer choices for that task.
There were kinetic energy figures offered, and some put a lot of stock into them, but how much of that energy would actually be transfered into an animal with a bullet that penetrates that deep with that narrow of a wound channel? How much would be deposited in actual vitals where it counts on an ideal shot?
Those bullets where thumping those block hard. Hownmany thime can you melt the blocks down before they get to dark to use?
👍😊
You need to get a 7mm-08. I love your channel and your input is second to none. You seem to work with all the standard short action calibers but 7mm-08. Don't be hatin on the 7mm!!!!!!
Already do and already done, they’ll come out when they come out. Join as a channel member for early access 👍🏼
For those who like solid copper bullets and extreme penetration these are a great option. I am not opposed to them but haven't used many myself. I wonder if they have less damage in the first 12"-16" of the animal to expend that energy to push deep. If the bullet exits in that under 18" section is that energy "wasted"? This may be a faulty theory. It likely won't make any difference that is quantifiable.
Thank you.
The solid copper bullets have WAY less damage in the first 12-16" compared to cup and core bullets. The wound tracks on the CX are crazy narrow.
Yes thats why generally youre supposed to use very light-for-caliber weights, so you can push them to blistering speeds. 165 is crazy heavy for a mono for 308. The 130g or even 110g would be my choice. Theyll open up more violently and still have plenty of penetration. 30”+ for a 308 is just wasted energy.
Barnes has a 130gr going 3200 fps
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Never mind
Are the projectiles alloy or lead/copper bullets
How many times in the video did he say solid copper
@@msquared9605 no one asked you and if you would read above , I apologized
@@tubbyshvfd9110 calm down there, Derek. You asked all of UA-cam lol
@@msquared9605 not all of UA-cam…just the ones here , to be fair
Hornaday whitetail reads 2700fps haven't tested no chrono
165 gr
My dude. You need to buy some straps and hold your blocks down.
My dude, I’m not using pistols here, the blocks rip or the straps/tape/etc will break.
Curious why they offer both.
Basically it's just yet another offering so shooters can try both to see what shoots best in their rifle. A parallel to this is the Swift Scirocco bullet. I bought Fiocchi, Federal, Remington brand ammo in 270 Winchester all loaded with a 130 Swift Scirocco II bullet. Just more to choose from
@derekmcmurry I get that you're checking out that bullet loaded by separate companies. Why one company would compete against itself seems redundant AND expensive.
Outfitter is sold as weatherproof.
Marketing and increasing the bottom line
@masonoutdoors_masonleather all good but that doesn't work. The cost of double inventory, double advertising cost, double printing for the boxes just doesn't add up to profit.
Iv seen enough videos to know you will never get box velocity out of Hornady ammo they lie about the numbers.
A 😘💕👍👍
That outfitter load is junk and I’ve never seen a gun group them well.
Terrible expansion just like every other monolithic.
Great penetration though. Horses for courses compared to the bonded or cup&core stuff.
Hornady CX always has horrible expansion. Barnes make nearly 100% expanded diameter. Barnes TTSX are better than CX in every way, and better and more consistent that 90% of copper/lead bullets.
All that penetration is just wasted energy, imho. Id rather have a bigger, more explosive wound channel. Maybe if i’m hunting water buffalo id choose this but not for medium game. Lol
Can confirm, the hand made leather is top notch. Got a sling and a cuff for my 45-70, couldn't be happier with them.