I had this pop up on my recommended feed and was surprised to see a part of a video I made here being shown as the example of "doing off camera flash WRONG". A few things to note. 1. The video you pulled those examples from was a technical demo of how you can control your exposure using the global shutter on the Sony a9 III. It wasn't intended to be a video about how to properly use off-camera flash, but rather show whats possible when you can sync any flash (not just those with HSS) outdoors up to 1/80,000. 2. You mentioned taking the shutter speed to 1/5000 of a second and the result being crushed blacks, but you can see in the examples that I was at much higher shutter speeds than that with the a9 III which led to those results WITHOUT using HSS. That was the point of the video, showing that you can get the full output from the flash unlike what happens when you use HSS. 3. The images I showed were straight of of camera RAW images. I didn't do any post processing because people complain that showing a processed image doesn't give you an idea of what the camera is actually putting out. The shadows could have been lifted in post, but that wasn't the point of the video. Again, it was a technical demo to show the possibilities of using an off camera flash with the a9 III at some insanely high shutter speeds. Thats why I showed different shutter speeds starting at 1/80,000 and moved my way down. I didn't need it on this day, but that's how it goes when you're scheduled to shoot UA-cam content on an overcast day. You get what you get. :) 4. I personally agree with you regarding the crushed-black look. Its not my cup of tea personally, but artistically there are a lot of people out there who like the look and its far easier to do in most conditions with the a9 III than any other camera (at the moment) thanks to its global shutter. With that aside, taking my images out of context and pairing that up with a clickbaity title to make your point feels pretty underhanded. If the tables were turned and I introduced your image(s) out of context to my audience as the WRONG way to do something, you okay with that? Is that where we're at today?
First I want to apologize because after reading what you wrote I can understand 100% how you could view this that way. I did not make this video to be about you or a response to your video which is why I made sure i did not show your face or name in this. I really just wanted to give it an example and just so happened to watch that video and it was an example of how a lot of photographers do off camera flash. Once again my apologies if you were offended that was never my intentions. I did however know that what ever example I showed it would probably get a response like this but I had to show something for reference. I made sure not to mention you anywhere in the video or description. If you would like I can pin the comment so others have backstory for the photos I put in the video. Just let me know.
@@RyanTroy Don't apologize. Quiles' narcissism is beyond reckoning. His work is mediocre; and, for a guy who's been around as long as he has, you'd expect his 'educational videos/demos' to reciprocate in quality. Why can't he produce great images OOC? He panders to novices and beginners. They all do. RAW files are not image files. His 'SOOC' output is also a JPEG like everyone else's camera output, dependent on the in-camera settings (like white balance, picture profile, etc.) which he conveniently leaves out of his productions (those settings). And his post-processing is often heavy-handed and not the quality of a professional. He'd be nothing without UA-cam sychophants and low-standard clients. Getting paid for work is not necessarily indicative that your work is expert or appreciable on its own merit; it can also be because he shoves his UA-cam celebrity in your face knowing you'll overlook much of the obvious mediocrity.
One thing I’ve learned doing photography is you never stop learning. Off camera flash photography is one of my weakness as I don’t use it very much but sometimes I do during events and such with no light. Sometimes it’s better to do things “your way” if it means getting the best results. I sometimes get stuck on doing things the correct way and it may not be what the client wants or vice versa. Maybe I’m wrong but I’m starting to just go with natural instincts and just do what I prefer might be best and let the chips fall where they may. Great video btw
Thank you! You Def saved my money. I realised that I do not need that more powerful flash and I like more vibrant photos as well. I have ad200 and v860, I think they both have plenty of power for the style I like.
Good technique! And you are right, it makes your photo way more flexible. Another thing I'd that your histogram is looking at a jpeg, so a little blow out in the clouds is no big deal! Thanks for the video!
Great video Ryan! I find your one of the first I've seen that actually showed the histogram before and after. I found that extremely helpful! Thank you 🙏🏻🙋🏻
Wow,of alll the OCF videos I've watched, this video, this way you do it, make so much sense, using that histogram, so you have less recycling time, thanks for sharing, blessings to you and your crew,
Thanks for the video. What's your take on recovering shadows being easier to recover in post than highlights (with digital cameras). Is that not an argument to protect the highlights when taking the image (making the ambient darker) but then recover in post? I wonder if some just forget to pull the shadows back up?
I remember hearing crushed blacks and wasn't completely sure what was meant by that until now. Now I know what to look out for next time I do an outside shoot.
This is definitely a good technique if you want the overall image to be more natural and less dramatic but for the dramatic images, the darker background has its benefits. Which is why they say expose for your ambient first because you want your ambient light to be higher overall to work with your editing style. Some like it darker for their style. I think it’s important to know how to do both but they both have their place depending on your style. Good video
You can do it on every mirrorless Nikon camera. You just have to set what you have your playback options to be and choose it. Then you go up and down to cycle between it instead of left and right to go through your photos
I mean TBH. If I wasn’t good at composing compelling images or oif my backgrounds left much to be desired. I’d probably crush and black out my backgrounds as well. So in a way I kind of understand the people who do that and defend that method.
Another photog got emotional, but tbh the photog that came to mind for me was Manny Ortiz. Not only did his popularity kind of date that style of flash photography, but it doesn’t look natural and most people are looking to blend natural light/ ambient and flash, not “out power the sun”. Learning the rules (this video) vs breaking them after you know them (creative style choices) was OBVIOUSLY the merit of this video.
Most of my work is in that style of having darker backgrounds with a flash because it is how we keep the subject standing out. If everything is balanced, nothing in the frame will draw the most attention by lighting but various viewers will pick up what they first see. If I am showing a photo, I will always show the audience what I want them to see.
That was a good refresher. And thanx for taking the effort to make this. But something that piqued my interest was the way the tree behind her head which is on the other side of the lake became brighter by just increasing the flash to full power. Refer RAW images DSC_2617 & DSC_2618 (between time 6:51-6:58) Any thoughts or insights on that?
@@RyanTroy Oh you know what, I realize what you mean now, you attached the cable at home and recorded after the fact, I misunderstood! Still subbed either way! 😆 Keep up the good work!
Really good video and I like that you are doing your own take on mixing flash and ambient. I'm not sure how you are shooting, but from my landscape background, there are several settings in the camera that you can select that will really pull out more shadow detail without sacrificing your highlights. It is a modified neutral or flat picture style that won't alter your RAW images at all but will make the histogram much more accurate since it is based on a jpeg within your camera. For how you are shooting, I think that this will give you an extra stop of light in the shadows in many cases. Also, when adjusting the highlights and shadows in post, are you separating the subject from the background? No sense in altering the contrast on your subject to get the background looking right. I'm sure that you just did a quick and fast edit on these for demo purposes, but your shadows and highlights sliders were affecting your subject, and I don't think that was intentional. I didn't mean to discredit your content with the suggestions because you are better at this type of photography than I am. Just wondered if I could give you a couple more tools.
I do separate in some occasions and yes this was a quick edit for demonstration purposes but I like to apply contrast to a whole image I don’t like my background to have contrast and my subject be flat. Once I have a base edit if I want to fine tune things I would select background or subject and do certain things.
There’s no right or wrong with portrait lighting just different approaches to it, some more flattering to faces than others. I learned portrait lighting back in 1972 apprenticing with and assisting top wedding / portrait photographer/teacher/author Monte Zucker and will pass along what I learned from him. He built his reputation on a style of wedding photography which combined the use of window lighting for the posed portraits and dual flash in a Key light over center Fill. From him I learned the pose a face into the indirect diffuse light of a north facing window with nose facing 45° to the window and face raised up enough into the light so the brows did not shade the eyes. That “short” lighting pattern creates a ‘mask’ of highlights on the forehead, in the eyes, cheeks, mouth and chin and puts the side of the face in shadow, which were filled with a square reflector on the shadow side but in front of the of the face as much as possible so the fill would fall off front to back on the face. Once a face is posed to the light that way it is simply a matter of walking around the face with the camera to capture full, oblique or profile views with very flattering lighting. The same approach was used outdoors with one difference; the sun was used as back rim-light. As with shooting by a north facing window the northern sky was used as both AMBIENT Key and Fill before adding flash. Step one is to put subject’s back to sun and set exposure with IS0/Aperture/ Shutter so any white clothing and skin the sun hits is 1/3 stop under clipping. Due the short range of a digital sensor that will cause the front of the subject to be underexposed. Before adding flash find the direction of the skylight and pose the face into it as by the window to create a mask of highlights on the face. It will be very subtle and unless the subject looks upward the eye sockets and eyes will always be shaded due to the steep angle of the light. If you don’t get the ambient light into the eyes they will always be slightly darker than the forehead and cheeks surrounding them even after flash is added unless the flash totally overpowers the ambient light. After raising the eyes to the light you’ll also need to raise the POV of the camera to avoid shooting up the nose so a three-step ladder the best ‘lighting’ accessory outdoors. At this point most photographers add a single flash as Key light but that results in under filled shadows. Monte realized that with shorter range color film Fill flash is always needed. It is used in studios and out in the field shooting weddings, portraits or PJ work a simple way to provide it is by keeping flash for Fill over centered over the lens and head of the subject on a bracket. I’ve used a Stroboframe Camera-flip bracket on every digital camera I’ve used since 2000. Why centered above the eyes of the subject? That creates a foundation of flat light and hides the shadow the flash creates behind the subject hidden from view of the camera. It also causes the perception the lighting is “softer” because the shadows will be ligther compared to a single flash used off axis and shadows to transition front to back on the face. So Step Two is raising the power of the centered fill until dark clothing the subject in the foreground is optimally exposed with detail and no noise. After adding the fill flash the highlights on the front of the subject will still look underexposed with most sensors and flat because the flat fill will cancel out the ambient modeling of the previous step of posing face up into the skylight. Finally the key light is added over the ambient light + fill flash FROM THE SAME DIRECTION AND ANGLE THE AMBIENT IS MODELING THE FACE. So if the ambient “Key” vector of skylight is modeling the face from the left side then that’s the side of the face you’d want the flash key light on, on the same downward angle to create the same “Mask” highlight pattern and 3D modeling with flash over the same pattern and modeling the ambient light is creating but with less contrast and not enough exposure. Back when I started using digital cameras with playback histograms and clipping warnings I realized the easiest and fasted way to set my exposure with flash and flash + ambient was to drape black and white wash rags over a gray card (used for WB reference) on a light stand where my subject would be, exposing the ambient so the white towel where hit by the sun was 1/3 stop below clipping. Then I adjust Fill flash until I can see detail in the black towel and the spike it creates isn’t running off the left side of the histogram. Finally I turn on the Key flash and raise it until the flash lit front of the white towel is 1/3 stop darker than the sunlit parts, putting it 2/3 stop under clipping. In a minute or so with 3-4 test shots I have lighting in the foreground which exactly matches the range of the sensor. I have the subject come in and stand next to the target for a reference shot, then remove the target and start shooting perfectly exposed full range photos. \Again there is no right or wrong in this, but if the goal is to flatter the face and make the combination of ambient and flash seem natural what is the better approach for doing that? Is it to just ignore how the ambient light is modeling the face when adding flash, or turn the face into the ambient light in a flattering way then add just enough Key flash over for ideally exposed highlights?
Very good job bro! I am a beginner photographer. I am interested in street, portrait, and maybe landscape photography. I am really focusing on street and portrait photography and I am trying to soak up all that I can. I just subscribed. Keep shooting bro.
Quick way to understand are you really peaking with Nikon is to use built-in NEF processing and bring the exposure down 2 stops, then EXE. You'll see that often there's no peaking at all, it's a false alarm that only matters for shooting JPEG. Now question: WHY THE CAMERA IS NOT DOING THIS FOR US. I mean overexposing a bit but then attenuating RAW exposure before storing as JPEG? That would probably complicate the interface too much... But it is doable in Nikon cameras with custom profile made in PCU2 (Picture Control Utility 2). All you need to do is a custom bow-like curve that brings the exposure down. Store it to your card, load into camera's memory, you don't need it on the card then. While final JPEG may look the same, it is exposed more (longer) and therefore has better shadow detail, less noise in shadows. I have two such profiles for 1 stop and 2 stops correction. So when I'm shooting with these profiles I add +1 or +2 compensation. I also have similar profiles but for "pushing" - to bump exposure on underexposed shots (accurately, while retaining highlights). That helps to see final result without a need to wait until you get to PC with RAW editing software. You can keep shooting RAW but having several custom curves helps to preview your shadow/highlight edit. Not to mention that there's ADL that does something similar (and affects the exposure at some levels) but it's not the same ADL, decreases exposure, with custom curve trick you can increase exposure.
Good video and explanation. But I wouldn’t say necessarily wrong, it’s just more of your preferred style, which I also agree with. There are many ways to skin a cat they say.
I wouldn’t say that it’s wrong. Some ppl like the crushed blacks, dynamic and moody looks. It’s an artistic preference that has a place for many shooters. Having a completely balanced look is good for a lot of work but it doesn’t always stand out or demand attention, and may resemble a cellphone snapshot in some cases. I hit every shoot with a 600w strobe, mainly for the additional recycle speed. But for those occasions that I want to create a moody look, I know I have more than enough power to accomplish it. Having that extra power is a luxury that some may not appreciate or can shell out, so it gives you a creative advantage when needed.
@@ericwilcox2442 there wasn’t and that’s the beauty of off camera flash is that the sun position doesnt really matter as long as you know how to combat it
Hi Ryan - you are exposing for the background. You might title this video - "How to properly expose for the background". Your example of "what most people do" is not a proper exposure for the background, but actually a somewhat underexposed background. Your example is simply a proper ETTR exposure for the background - that's fine, but it might be prudent to state that this is not some new technique, but rather the correct implementation of a technique, and how to properly expose for the background. -PD
Well.. I agree.. This is the proper way to do it but sense art is subjective some people will take offense to that but by no means is this a new technique. but a lot of people on the platform are teaching others to take shots like that. my example being the photos i showed at the beginning of the video.
@@RyanTroy Gotcha - that makes sense. I think I still would have just titled it "How to expose for the background - ETTR" but its not a big deal :) -PD
I love all your vids but real-world tutorial content like THIS will take your channel to the next level - so awesome / thank you 👏🏻 Wish list item from Nikon - highlight blinkies in the EVF while shooting (not just in Playback). But maybe with flash this doesn't matter as much? Since i"m guessing you're not in Live View with flash?
Thank you. I want to make more videos like these and now that I have the Z6iii as of today with the flip out screen where I can see myself I will try to take everyone with me as well.. Also i have a gopro now as well to give my perspective so we will see how that comes out
I think the sample images you took to show the "wrong" way misrepresent (what may be a legitimate preference for some photographers) the starting point - your histogram in those didn't reflect a properly exposed background - the blacks were crushed because of underexposure, not because photographers are going about exposing the wrong way. I think the more accurate framing/focus of the lesson would have been how to use your exposure tools (in this case peeking and the histogram) to properly get the look. The framing avoids the assumption that the photographers you identified weren't making an intentional artistic choice (much like those who go the opposite and choose to be a little over exposed for a more "airy" look).
I wish I could agree. But there are people teaching to "expose for the background" which they go until they sky is clear then they adjust their flash. Now i can tell that you are an experienced photographer so I know that you know your stuff.. but this video is really for the misinformed. Sad thing is truly that a lot of new photographers that learned with Mirrorless cameras dont know how to use a histogram and couldnt even tell you the difference between matrix metering or center weight ect. So I do get it. title? kinda click baity.. but sometimes you have to lead the horses to the river so they can drink.
How do you not get the banding with the Z8. I cannot shoot with my AD200 and the FJ200 / Fj400 withOUT getting banding in HSS. I'm trying to stop sports action in daylight with off camera flash.
@@RyanTroy So you can shoot 1/1000 or up to 1/8000 shutter without banding? If so, I need some guidance on your setting. Please! I have tried so many different setting and lights. If I go over 1/250, I get banding. :(
I don’t know why but it looks very hdr style. Maybe it’s just needs some negative fill on the subject but it starts looking cartoonish. At the end of it, I think it all depends on the project.
Just curious why you hold the camera the way you do vs using the viewfinder? It seems to me you run the chance of having a little shake and just simply not being as sharp, vs using the viewfinder and bracing yourself.. Just curious as I've seen other, particularly younger photographers shooting with the camera out front using the back screen..
@@30dcanon I appreciate the young compliment but honestly I do both. I use the evf more when I care about composition and paying attention to detail because that’s all in my sight but if I’m doing something like a close up portrait like these I tend to use the screen.
I really hate the under exposing background photos, it just makes it look unnatural and so obviously flash. I like it more balanced the way you are doing. Where you use the flash to only add a bit of light for the subject
Something I also even know … you can set the camera to iso32 / LO 1.0 and lower the shutter and flash power even more with the same DR ... regarding to photo to photons.
@@Digitalplanetz I know 😩😩😩 I saw the footage and was like wow. Buttt… I made adjustments on the last video I recorded and I think I had it right. This was actually my first time using it. It’s only up from here lol
@@hyonkwon9322 I agree with you saying the way people use to do. Thing is. There are a lot of people getting into off camera flash and it is being taught on UA-cam by most photographers the first way and not the “normal” way. I’m just trying to be a person explaining it a different way than the norm. Honestly a lot of people struggle with off camera flash.
Thats not true I was doing flash how he showed the first time. Infact alot of youtubers show thats how your supposed to do it.... the way this guy did it the second time was new to me. And I preferred it. I saw alot of the same things he brought up shadows to dark and tryna fix it can be a pain. I got alot of info from this video. Saying pol are doing it the first qay cuz they want to isn't 100 percent true it can't be I seen to many shoots that did that way and tons of videos showing to do it that way. OR they use a light meter and meter at the subject and get great lighting that way but I don't have a light meter except in my camera and used it that way he showed the first time. I'm gonna go out tomorrow and try the second way it seems alot more intuitive and seems like it will make the workflow alot better.
@@RyanTroyI didn't even see your post till after I replied 100 percent true youtube all the videos I learned from showed me the way you did it the first time. Facts. Your way of doing it makes alot more sense I get more out if my camera and alot more out of my flash instead of maxing it to the peak and not having alot of room afterwards to edit around and bring those shadows back up.
![I try one light for photo AND video! [Godox AD600 pro II-Nikon Z]](/img/n.gif)
I had this pop up on my recommended feed and was surprised to see a part of a video I made here being shown as the example of "doing off camera flash WRONG". A few things to note.
1. The video you pulled those examples from was a technical demo of how you can control your exposure using the global shutter on the Sony a9 III. It wasn't intended to be a video about how to properly use off-camera flash, but rather show whats possible when you can sync any flash (not just those with HSS) outdoors up to 1/80,000.
2. You mentioned taking the shutter speed to 1/5000 of a second and the result being crushed blacks, but you can see in the examples that I was at much higher shutter speeds than that with the a9 III which led to those results WITHOUT using HSS. That was the point of the video, showing that you can get the full output from the flash unlike what happens when you use HSS.
3. The images I showed were straight of of camera RAW images. I didn't do any post processing because people complain that showing a processed image doesn't give you an idea of what the camera is actually putting out. The shadows could have been lifted in post, but that wasn't the point of the video. Again, it was a technical demo to show the possibilities of using an off camera flash with the a9 III at some insanely high shutter speeds. Thats why I showed different shutter speeds starting at 1/80,000 and moved my way down. I didn't need it on this day, but that's how it goes when you're scheduled to shoot UA-cam content on an overcast day. You get what you get. :)
4. I personally agree with you regarding the crushed-black look. Its not my cup of tea personally, but artistically there are a lot of people out there who like the look and its far easier to do in most conditions with the a9 III than any other camera (at the moment) thanks to its global shutter.
With that aside, taking my images out of context and pairing that up with a clickbaity title to make your point feels pretty underhanded. If the tables were turned and I introduced your image(s) out of context to my audience as the WRONG way to do something, you okay with that? Is that where we're at today?
First I want to apologize because after reading what you wrote I can understand 100% how you could view this that way. I did not make this video to be about you or a response to your video which is why I made sure i did not show your face or name in this. I really just wanted to give it an example and just so happened to watch that video and it was an example of how a lot of photographers do off camera flash. Once again my apologies if you were offended that was never my intentions. I did however know that what ever example I showed it would probably get a response like this but I had to show something for reference. I made sure not to mention you anywhere in the video or description. If you would like I can pin the comment so others have backstory for the photos I put in the video. Just let me know.
@@RyanTroy Don't apologize. Quiles' narcissism is beyond reckoning. His work is mediocre; and, for a guy who's been around as long as he has, you'd expect his 'educational videos/demos' to reciprocate in quality. Why can't he produce great images OOC? He panders to novices and beginners. They all do. RAW files are not image files. His 'SOOC' output is also a JPEG like everyone else's camera output, dependent on the in-camera settings (like white balance, picture profile, etc.) which he conveniently leaves out of his productions (those settings). And his post-processing is often heavy-handed and not the quality of a professional. He'd be nothing without UA-cam sychophants and low-standard clients. Getting paid for work is not necessarily indicative that your work is expert or appreciable on its own merit; it can also be because he shoves his UA-cam celebrity in your face knowing you'll overlook much of the obvious mediocrity.
That look isn't doing it wrong, it's just what you don't like. And that's fine but it certainly isn't wrong.
I can agree to that brother.
Agreed
Great video. Thank you!
One thing I’ve learned doing photography is you never stop learning. Off camera flash photography is one of my weakness as I don’t use it very much but sometimes I do during events and such with no light. Sometimes it’s better to do things “your way” if it means getting the best results. I sometimes get stuck on doing things the correct way and it may not be what the client wants or vice versa. Maybe I’m wrong but I’m starting to just go with natural instincts and just do what I prefer might be best and let the chips fall where they may. Great video btw
NBA YOUNG TROY! Back at it again!
Thank you! You Def saved my money. I realised that I do not need that more powerful flash and I like more vibrant photos as well. I have ad200 and v860, I think they both have plenty of power for the style I like.
Good technique! And you are right, it makes your photo way more flexible. Another thing I'd that your histogram is looking at a jpeg, so a little blow out in the clouds is no big deal! Thanks for the video!
Thank you!
This was a great video. I love how detailed you were with your explanations. Serena is an amazing model too; very easy to work with.
Thank you!
Great video Ryan! I find your one of the first I've seen that actually showed the histogram before and after. I found that extremely helpful! Thank you 🙏🏻🙋🏻
Thank you!!!
I like how you are exposing to the right but not letting the highlights clip, then bring in the flash! Great job!
Wow,of alll the OCF videos I've watched, this video, this way you do it, make so much sense, using that histogram, so you have less recycling time, thanks for sharing, blessings to you and your crew,
Thank you for sharing . So insightful 👏 👌
Great video. Appreciate your explanation with examples.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Light meters are handy as well
Thanks for the video. What's your take on recovering shadows being easier to recover in post than highlights (with digital cameras). Is that not an argument to protect the highlights when taking the image (making the ambient darker) but then recover in post? I wonder if some just forget to pull the shadows back up?
I like your model.She is very simple with friendly face
I remember hearing crushed blacks and wasn't completely sure what was meant by that until now. Now I know what to look out for next time I do an outside shoot.
Creative differences good sir..
Great video, love the setup on your camera rig can I ask what it is ? Also great content thanks for sharing
@@marlinwoodruff2292 just a small rig cage with a nato rail
appreciate this video.
Thanks Bro!!
Some people love those high shutter speeds and dark backgrounds for the dramatic look.
You are a great teacher. Thank you for the informative video.
Thank you!
This is definitely a good technique if you want the overall image to be more natural and less dramatic but for the dramatic images, the darker background has its benefits. Which is why they say expose for your ambient first because you want your ambient light to be higher overall to work with your editing style. Some like it darker for their style. I think it’s important to know how to do both but they both have their place depending on your style. Good video
good stuff bro, thanks for explaining
I like your camera cage. Which one is it?
I agree. I'm not a big fan of the super crushed blacks. I like my subject to kind of look like they fit in with the environment more.
Exactly. I agree 100 percent
This was great! Is the peaking a Z8 thing or can I do this on my Z6 II?
You can do it on every mirrorless Nikon camera. You just have to set what you have your playback options to be and choose it. Then you go up and down to cycle between it instead of left and right to go through your photos
I mean TBH. If I wasn’t good at composing compelling images or oif my backgrounds left much to be desired. I’d probably crush and black out my backgrounds as well. So in a way I kind of understand the people who do that and defend that method.
👀🍿 tell us more sir!
👀 💯
SPOT ON
Another photog got emotional, but tbh the photog that came to mind for me was Manny Ortiz. Not only did his popularity kind of date that style of flash photography, but it doesn’t look natural and most people are looking to blend natural light/ ambient and flash, not “out power the sun”. Learning the rules (this video) vs breaking them after you know them (creative style choices) was OBVIOUSLY the merit of this video.
Yeah. I wasn't trying to offend.
@@RyanTroy you know what Bernie Mac told kid in house party 2… it is what it is lol
Great video my guy. Keep dropping
Most of my work is in that style of having darker backgrounds with a flash because it is how we keep the subject standing out. If everything is balanced, nothing in the frame will draw the most attention by lighting but various viewers will pick up what they first see. If I am showing a photo, I will always show the audience what I want them to see.
I like your perspective 💯
@@RyanTroy No problem!! Photoshoot like we doing are so fun!
That was a good refresher. And thanx for taking the effort to make this. But something that piqued my interest was the way the tree behind her head which is on the other side of the lake became brighter by just increasing the flash to full power. Refer RAW images DSC_2617 & DSC_2618 (between time 6:51-6:58)
Any thoughts or insights on that?
that was helpful thanks!
Hey this Ryan guy might know a thing or two about flash photography😂
@@JUNIORSUICIDE99 👀👀👀
Great video! May I ask what you used to record your camera screen?
Atomos Ninja V. thing is.. i recorded the playback when i got home just to add to the video.
also thank you!
@@RyanTroy Amazing! I would love a tutorial video on that someday, subbed!
@@AuroraDrag0n on using the ninja to record the screen?
@@RyanTroy Oh you know what, I realize what you mean now, you attached the cable at home and recorded after the fact, I misunderstood! Still subbed either way! 😆 Keep up the good work!
Really good video and I like that you are doing your own take on mixing flash and ambient. I'm not sure how you are shooting, but from my landscape background, there are several settings in the camera that you can select that will really pull out more shadow detail without sacrificing your highlights. It is a modified neutral or flat picture style that won't alter your RAW images at all but will make the histogram much more accurate since it is based on a jpeg within your camera. For how you are shooting, I think that this will give you an extra stop of light in the shadows in many cases. Also, when adjusting the highlights and shadows in post, are you separating the subject from the background? No sense in altering the contrast on your subject to get the background looking right. I'm sure that you just did a quick and fast edit on these for demo purposes, but your shadows and highlights sliders were affecting your subject, and I don't think that was intentional. I didn't mean to discredit your content with the suggestions because you are better at this type of photography than I am. Just wondered if I could give you a couple more tools.
I do separate in some occasions and yes this was a quick edit for demonstration purposes but I like to apply contrast to a whole image I don’t like my background to have contrast and my subject be flat. Once I have a base edit if I want to fine tune things I would select background or subject and do certain things.
Looks like you gotta make a trip to Texas during the summer and show how it’s done.
lmaoooooo im pinning this comment bro! lol
Story of my life 😂
There’s no right or wrong with portrait lighting just different approaches to it, some more flattering to faces than others. I learned portrait lighting back in 1972 apprenticing with and assisting top wedding / portrait photographer/teacher/author Monte Zucker and will pass along what I learned from him.
He built his reputation on a style of wedding photography which combined the use of window lighting for the posed portraits and dual flash in a Key light over center Fill. From him I learned the pose a face into the indirect diffuse light of a north facing window with nose facing 45° to the window and face raised up enough into the light so the brows did not shade the eyes. That “short” lighting pattern creates a ‘mask’ of highlights on the forehead, in the eyes, cheeks, mouth and chin and puts the side of the face in shadow, which were filled with a square reflector on the shadow side but in front of the of the face as much as possible so the fill would fall off front to back on the face. Once a face is posed to the light that way it is simply a matter of walking around the face with the camera to capture full, oblique or profile views with very flattering lighting.
The same approach was used outdoors with one difference; the sun was used as back rim-light. As with shooting by a north facing window the northern sky was used as both AMBIENT Key and Fill before adding flash.
Step one is to put subject’s back to sun and set exposure with IS0/Aperture/ Shutter so any white clothing and skin the sun hits is 1/3 stop under clipping. Due the short range of a digital sensor that will cause the front of the subject to be underexposed.
Before adding flash find the direction of the skylight and pose the face into it as by the window to create a mask of highlights on the face. It will be very subtle and unless the subject looks upward the eye sockets and eyes will always be shaded due to the steep angle of the light. If you don’t get the ambient light into the eyes they will always be slightly darker than the forehead and cheeks surrounding them even after flash is added unless the flash totally overpowers the ambient light. After raising the eyes to the light you’ll also need to raise the POV of the camera to avoid shooting up the nose so a three-step ladder the best ‘lighting’ accessory outdoors.
At this point most photographers add a single flash as Key light but that results in under filled shadows. Monte realized that with shorter range color film Fill flash is always needed. It is used in studios and out in the field shooting weddings, portraits or PJ work a simple way to provide it is by keeping flash for Fill over centered over the lens and head of the subject on a bracket. I’ve used a Stroboframe Camera-flip bracket on every digital camera I’ve used since 2000. Why centered above the eyes of the subject? That creates a foundation of flat light and hides the shadow the flash creates behind the subject hidden from view of the camera. It also causes the perception the lighting is “softer” because the shadows will be ligther compared to a single flash used off axis and shadows to transition front to back on the face.
So Step Two is raising the power of the centered fill until dark clothing the subject in the foreground is optimally exposed with detail and no noise. After adding the fill flash the highlights on the front of the subject will still look underexposed with most sensors and flat because the flat fill will cancel out the ambient modeling of the previous step of posing face up into the skylight.
Finally the key light is added over the ambient light + fill flash FROM THE SAME DIRECTION AND ANGLE THE AMBIENT IS MODELING THE FACE. So if the ambient “Key” vector of skylight is modeling the face from the left side then that’s the side of the face you’d want the flash key light on, on the same downward angle to create the same “Mask” highlight pattern and 3D modeling with flash over the same pattern and modeling the ambient light is creating but with less contrast and not enough exposure.
Back when I started using digital cameras with playback histograms and clipping warnings I realized the easiest and fasted way to set my exposure with flash and flash + ambient was to drape black and white wash rags over a gray card (used for WB reference) on a light stand where my subject would be, exposing the ambient so the white towel where hit by the sun was 1/3 stop below clipping. Then I adjust Fill flash until I can see detail in the black towel and the spike it creates isn’t running off the left side of the histogram. Finally I turn on the Key flash and raise it until the flash lit front of the white towel is 1/3 stop darker than the sunlit parts, putting it 2/3 stop under clipping. In a minute or so with 3-4 test shots I have lighting in the foreground which exactly matches the range of the sensor. I have the subject come in and stand next to the target for a reference shot, then remove the target and start shooting perfectly exposed full range photos.
\Again there is no right or wrong in this, but if the goal is to flatter the face and make the combination of ambient and flash seem natural what is the better approach for doing that? Is it to just ignore how the ambient light is modeling the face when adding flash, or turn the face into the ambient light in a flattering way then add just enough Key flash over for ideally exposed highlights?
Very good job bro! I am a beginner photographer. I am interested in street, portrait, and maybe landscape photography. I am really focusing on street and portrait photography and I am trying to soak up all that I can. I just subscribed. Keep shooting bro.
Quick way to understand are you really peaking with Nikon is to use built-in NEF processing and bring the exposure down 2 stops, then EXE. You'll see that often there's no peaking at all, it's a false alarm that only matters for shooting JPEG.
Now question: WHY THE CAMERA IS NOT DOING THIS FOR US.
I mean overexposing a bit but then attenuating RAW exposure before storing as JPEG?
That would probably complicate the interface too much...
But it is doable in Nikon cameras with custom profile made in PCU2 (Picture Control Utility 2). All you need to do is a custom bow-like curve that brings the exposure down. Store it to your card, load into camera's memory, you don't need it on the card then.
While final JPEG may look the same, it is exposed more (longer) and therefore has better shadow detail, less noise in shadows. I have two such profiles for 1 stop and 2 stops correction. So when I'm shooting with these profiles I add +1 or +2 compensation.
I also have similar profiles but for "pushing" - to bump exposure on underexposed shots (accurately, while retaining highlights).
That helps to see final result without a need to wait until you get to PC with RAW editing software. You can keep shooting RAW but having several custom curves helps to preview your shadow/highlight edit.
Not to mention that there's ADL that does something similar (and affects the exposure at some levels) but it's not the same ADL, decreases exposure, with custom curve trick you can increase exposure.
you have learned parts of cameras that i need to be a student for and learn. i read what you wrote like "My camera can do that?" lol
Good video and explanation. But I wouldn’t say necessarily wrong, it’s just more of your preferred style, which I also agree with. There are many ways to skin a cat they say.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Great Video!!
Thanks!
I wouldn’t say that it’s wrong. Some ppl like the crushed blacks, dynamic and moody looks. It’s an artistic preference that has a place for many shooters. Having a completely balanced look is good for a lot of work but it doesn’t always stand out or demand attention, and may resemble a cellphone snapshot in some cases. I hit every shoot with a 600w strobe, mainly for the additional recycle speed. But for those occasions that I want to create a moody look, I know I have more than enough power to accomplish it. Having that extra power is a luxury that some may not appreciate or can shell out, so it gives you a creative advantage when needed.
True
Those types of photos are when you’re going for drama with the dark background photography is subjective
When you set up for the shoot, was there any consideration given to the direction of the flash in relation to the direction of the sun?
@@ericwilcox2442 there wasn’t and that’s the beauty of off camera flash is that the sun position doesnt really matter as long as you know how to combat it
@@RyanTroy Thanks for the response!
Hi Ryan - you are exposing for the background. You might title this video - "How to properly expose for the background". Your example of "what most people do" is not a proper exposure for the background, but actually a somewhat underexposed background. Your example is simply a proper ETTR exposure for the background - that's fine, but it might be prudent to state that this is not some new technique, but rather the correct implementation of a technique, and how to properly expose for the background.
-PD
Well.. I agree.. This is the proper way to do it but sense art is subjective some people will take offense to that but by no means is this a new technique. but a lot of people on the platform are teaching others to take shots like that. my example being the photos i showed at the beginning of the video.
@@RyanTroy Gotcha - that makes sense. I think I still would have just titled it "How to expose for the background - ETTR" but its not a big deal :)
-PD
I love all your vids but real-world tutorial content like THIS will take your channel to the next level - so awesome / thank you 👏🏻
Wish list item from Nikon - highlight blinkies in the EVF while shooting (not just in Playback). But maybe with flash this doesn't matter as much? Since i"m guessing you're not in Live View with flash?
Thank you. I want to make more videos like these and now that I have the Z6iii as of today with the flip out screen where I can see myself I will try to take everyone with me as well.. Also i have a gopro now as well to give my perspective so we will see how that comes out
I think the sample images you took to show the "wrong" way misrepresent (what may be a legitimate preference for some photographers) the starting point - your histogram in those didn't reflect a properly exposed background - the blacks were crushed because of underexposure, not because photographers are going about exposing the wrong way. I think the more accurate framing/focus of the lesson would have been how to use your exposure tools (in this case peeking and the histogram) to properly get the look. The framing avoids the assumption that the photographers you identified weren't making an intentional artistic choice (much like those who go the opposite and choose to be a little over exposed for a more "airy" look).
I wish I could agree. But there are people teaching to "expose for the background" which they go until they sky is clear then they adjust their flash. Now i can tell that you are an experienced photographer so I know that you know your stuff.. but this video is really for the misinformed. Sad thing is truly that a lot of new photographers that learned with Mirrorless cameras dont know how to use a histogram and couldnt even tell you the difference between matrix metering or center weight ect. So I do get it. title? kinda click baity.. but sometimes you have to lead the horses to the river so they can drink.
How do you not get the banding with the Z8. I cannot shoot with my AD200 and the FJ200 / Fj400 withOUT getting banding in HSS. I'm trying to stop sports action in daylight with off camera flash.
@@leannaslaterphotography I heard about this from someone else and they showed me but I haven’t ran into any with either of the z8s I use
@@RyanTroy So you can shoot 1/1000 or up to 1/8000 shutter without banding? If so, I need some guidance on your setting. Please! I have tried so many different setting and lights.
If I go over 1/250, I get banding. :(
@@leannaslaterphotography I haven’t shot 8000 but I have shot 4000 do you have Instagram? If so send me a message @ryantroy_
I don’t know why but it looks very hdr style. Maybe it’s just needs some negative fill on the subject but it starts looking cartoonish. At the end of it, I think it all depends on the project.
😬 Sheesh. Shots fired in the comments. 💥👈🏾 Great video though.
Its all love.
Just curious why you hold the camera the way you do vs using the viewfinder? It seems to me you run the chance of having a little shake and just simply not being as sharp, vs using the viewfinder and bracing yourself.. Just curious as I've seen other, particularly younger photographers shooting with the camera out front using the back screen..
@@30dcanon I appreciate the young compliment but honestly I do both. I use the evf more when I care about composition and paying attention to detail because that’s all in my sight but if I’m doing something like a close up portrait like these I tend to use the screen.
@@RyanTroy thanks for the insight!! Well, given I’m 60, from the film era, everyone is young these days!!! Nice vid by the way!!
I really hate the under exposing background photos, it just makes it look unnatural and so obviously flash. I like it more balanced the way you are doing. Where you use the flash to only add a bit of light for the subject
People tend to say they don't like when flash is used on them and I explain you won't even notice I promise.
Creating dramatic photos isn't using OCF wrong
Wait Ryan, Let me face time you, and tell you what your doing wrong😂
👀👀😂😂😂
Well done bro. Made a subscriber out of me
Love the topic, but the wobbling in the video is dizzying,
@@i8910midnight noted. I was trying something new. It was actually a static shot but I added that in post to give it a more “handheld camera” effect
Flip your lens hood.
Something I also even know … you can set the camera to iso32 / LO 1.0 and lower the shutter and flash power even more with the same DR ... regarding to photo to photons.
I was told not to do it so much that i never did without ever asking or experimenting on why i never use the LO iso. im going to give it a try
Camera angle from your gopro is to low.
@@Digitalplanetz I know 😩😩😩 I saw the footage and was like wow. Buttt… I made adjustments on the last video I recorded and I think I had it right. This was actually my first time using it. It’s only up from here lol
You know that photographers are taking photos like that on purpose, right? The way you are showing is the normal way people use to do.
@@hyonkwon9322 I agree with you saying the way people use to do. Thing is. There are a lot of people getting into off camera flash and it is being taught on UA-cam by most photographers the first way and not the “normal” way. I’m just trying to be a person explaining it a different way than the norm. Honestly a lot of people struggle with off camera flash.
Thats not true I was doing flash how he showed the first time. Infact alot of youtubers show thats how your supposed to do it.... the way this guy did it the second time was new to me. And I preferred it. I saw alot of the same things he brought up shadows to dark and tryna fix it can be a pain. I got alot of info from this video. Saying pol are doing it the first qay cuz they want to isn't 100 percent true it can't be I seen to many shoots that did that way and tons of videos showing to do it that way. OR they use a light meter and meter at the subject and get great lighting that way but I don't have a light meter except in my camera and used it that way he showed the first time. I'm gonna go out tomorrow and try the second way it seems alot more intuitive and seems like it will make the workflow alot better.
@@RyanTroyI didn't even see your post till after I replied 100 percent true youtube all the videos I learned from showed me the way you did it the first time. Facts. Your way of doing it makes alot more sense I get more out if my camera and alot more out of my flash instead of maxing it to the peak and not having alot of room afterwards to edit around and bring those shadows back up.
Awesome video, thank you.