So everybody another viewer pointed out how I forgot to mention the headphone amplifier, well I'm going to pin this comment to rectify that. I did try the headphone amplifier although I sort of forgot to mention it because I got focused on talking about it as a preamp which is how I primarily used it. I would say that the headphone amp is not as good as one of their dedicated headphone amps and probably even the lowly magni is more powerful with better Bass, but the one that's built in to the saga 2 retains 99% of all the sound quality I talked about when talking about the preamp and would be good for most casual use. As long as you don't want the absolute top performance it's excellent, I would say that it's equivalent to a good headphone amp on an integrated amplifier. At least in terms of power and things like bass output and general performance.
Like you I own a Saga+ and have recently purchased the Saga 2 and one Gjallarhorn power amp. I noticed with my Grado SR80 headphones connected to the Saga 2's headphone input that the gain automatically bumps to the 1x gain setting. Maybe you can test your Saga 2 to confirm. Thanks.
I checked the internal headphone amp again and plugging in the Grado headphones does not automatically bump the gain up to 1x. Gain stays at whatever gain setting selected prior to inserting the headphone connector. 🎵
@@dougcampbell2814 Hi.... what did you think of the sound quality using your SR80s? I have a pair of RS2Es and I'm strongly considering buying the Saga 2... thanks for the feedback.
@@nationalsfanaticable I thought the SR80s sounded great with full yet non-boomy bass and a pleasant sounding midragne and treble. Much like a mid-line Grado cartridge. I did feel that the passive mode sounded best with the SR80. When using the 1x and 4x gain settings of the Saga 2 the sound became to warm for my ears and overly detailed and sharp. For $279 this is a LOT of preamp.
I had some Maggie 0.7s and a couple of those Fosi v3 mono locks sitting around. I decided to grab this Saga2 since I saw it had balanced outputs. I have an original Saga from years back that I still use and enjoy. Im kinda shocked at how good this budget front end sounds. The budget side of the hobby has really gotten crazy.
I completely agree with your insight on the "PRAT" of the Saga 2. My previous preamp was the original Saga. Saga 2 gives the music better detail, energy, and weight.
Yes, I agree, and it’s not just the added energy from the gain, I think a lot of it has to do with just a wholesale change of sound that they’ve implemented over the past couple of years. I’m a fan because while the slow melodic sound is great when you listen to slow melodic music, it tends to temper, energetic music, and make that music sound boring. For anyone that’s never experienced that Prat, in my opinion it’s one of the single best attributes a system can have. As I said in the video, not only does it elevate, fast, tempo, music, but it also elevates the intonation and emotional impact and the ebb and flow of music better. Hence it carries the musical message better.
No I haven't tried the second version although I have tried the original. It seems to me that the majority of their products over the past 2 to 3 years have exhibited this type of sound, so I would say that the new Aegir does as well
Well mine stopped working after four weeks. Two weeks after return period. Now I have to send it back at my expense to warranty it. While it worked it sounded okay. Passive was anemic but the active modes gave it some punch at the expense of a driven sound which didn't bother me.
@@EricNorstrom oh no, sorry to hear that, I know that always sucks. You should still be under the warranty so I don't imagine they would charge you and besides if you were going to send something back as a return you'd have to pay shipping anyway,schiit does not pay return shipping And of course you lose 15% on top of that. That said I've had nothing but great experiences with their customer service over the years and have always came away very satisfied with my interactions with the company.
@@Audiorevue thanks for the note! That's great to know that you've had good experiences. Dropping it in the mail today so hopefully everything goes smoothly.
@@EricNorstrom yeah I'm sure it will. Out of the probably 50 products I've ordered from them over the years, I've only ever had a problem once, and that was with the modi 2 usb DAC. It had a problem where no matter what computer I plugged it into the computer would stop recognizing it after about 5 minutes. Anyway of course I had to pay to ship it back but they took care of it
Og Saga owner, so this is a cool review to catch! Have you heard the Kara? I need two sets of single ended outs in my current setup. Interesting to pull in the Ayre pre, that’s a nice nod. Like your review!
No I haven't heard the Kara, although I would be under the assumption it is a better version of this, and if that's the case then I could argue that it's damn near perfect. Though I typically don't comment on stuff I really haven't heard. Yeah in regards to my k5xemp, I picked it up I think 4 or 5 months ago for a great price I mean literally a steal and unfortunately it was one of the products I sold when I moved into my new place but I noticed a lot of similarities between the saga 2 and that so I felt it important to mention it. I also felt it important to mention it because a lot of people will always when they review something, say that a product is as good as things 10 times as costly, but they won't actually have any comparisons to back up that claim, well I do.
@@ScottoGrotto Kara sounds great in my system you'll be hard pushed to find a preamp with these specs and performance for the given price , including 5 year warranty and made in the USA
Early ? I’ve been doing this now for over 10 years. My cables are as my cables are, I ain’t gonna change and I haven’t noticed a difference in sound with my cables the way they are.
I don't see why not, I guess the only thing would be if you don't mind the size but it's a small item anyway. I guess I'm just thinking about something like the audioquest dragonfly that's quite a bit smaller and more portable.
Oh okay, I know when I think about a desktop situation I always think about maybe the smallest thing possible, but yeah The modi multi-bit will work perfect And definitely be an upgrade over what you have now.
I really wish you would have reviewed the Saga+. Not much info on the web about its sound character. Does the Saga+ sound change depending on the valve used? How does the Saga+ compare with the other Saga versions? Since you've owned it, I would like your feedback on the Saga+. I'm seriously looking into purchasing one because I already have some really good 6SN7 tubes I could use with it. Thank you.
I never actually had the saga Plus, I had the OG saga and the saga s . Now everything I've ever read about the saga plus was that it retained a lot of the character of the OG saga just with added refinement, so I think I could comment on its sound. Like I said in the video I really enjoyed the original saga when I had it, I thought it was great sounding and with great mid-range and this great sense of clarity and the ability of feeling like you were there, and that was all with the stock tube. Did try tube rolling a little bit with the original saga and you would get different characteristics with it, like I tried an electro-harmonex and a tung sol And a black bottom RCA, they all changed up the flavor a little bit, My favorite being the RCA but I always thought that it retained the same sound quality regardless of tube. Basically you got the same basic flavor regardless but it would change some of the tonal characteristics Another thing I forgot to mention and don't take this as a knock against the original saga or the saga plus, but me as a listener as much as I love tubes and I love the sound that they make and just everything about them, truthfully I don't like dealing with them. Firstly there's the aspect of tubes wearing out and then there's the aspect of my sort of OCD optimizer mentality comes out when I have a tube product and I want to buy 50 different tubes to try out in it. I always find for whatever reason when I have a piece of tube gear as much as I love its sound I'm never quite happy with it because of this. Anyway man I hope this helped and thanks for watching..
@@Audiorevue What are for you the differences in sound when you compare the Saga 2 to the Saga s. I own the Saga s and I dislike that there is no gain at all. I have to turn the volume up to 3 o clock to get reasonable sound on my LRS +. My amps are Fosi mono V3.
Well obviously the added gain, but really the biggest thing is this sense of drive and I think I mentioned that like three or four times in the video. You basically think of a real rhythmic song that you enjoy, and imagine that song being played on a Technics SL 1200. Through the saga s that rhythmic song is like turning the speed fader down several notches so that your favorite highly rhythmic highly energetic song then becomes ponderous. Now the saga 2 is the same thing but hit that fader up one click from center, it injects more life and energy into music. Sort of like you can feel the rhythm more. No it doesn't speed up anything in actuality, but you get the impression that you can feel the rhythm more and like the music has more life and energy. And that's what the British call Prat, Pace rhythm and timing. And that's also what I mean when I say it has a great sense of drive. As I also mentioned in the video you do still have to turn it up a little bit, probably to get around 80 DB of sound pressure for me I had it up around 11:00 sometimes between 11:00 and 12:00, now of course that doesn't mean anything's wrong with it it's just the way their gain structure works in their pre-amplifiers.
Thanks for this review! I have a question, if you don't mind. Is there a noticeable, obvious change in gain when going from passive mode to active mode one? Thank you
@@AudiorevueThanks for that. I bought this unit brand new from Schiit a few weeks ago. There was absolutely no difference going from passive to active one. However, there was a big boost going to active two as expected. I tried different amplifiers with the unit as instructed by Schiit technical department, but still no boost whatsoever in active one. I rechecked many times and no boost. So I sent it back to Schiit, they charged me for the return shipping and when they got the unit back said it was okay and charged me 20% restock fee. I said your tester is mistaken, active one does not work. I had to threaten to open a case with my credit card company to get my restock fee back. I am not thrilled with Schiit at the moment. Sorry about the rant. Thanks for getting back to me.
@scottbennett3119 well on mine the light that indicates which stage you're in is far dimmer than the light for the input indicator. I Emailed them and they said as long as it works, now that's not really a knock against schiit Audio, I've had nothing but great experience with their customer service over the years, however I have had a few bum products from time to time. Any company that puts a product on to the market is going to have a few that go out the door that are duds, but that's just the nature of production, right? I would have advised you to keep it, I mean if you like it, and I should be clear that when going to the first active stage there was A difference in sound and an increase in volume, but only slight, when you went to the high Gain that's when you really noticed the increase. It's probably yours was functioning appropriately as they said. But that's neither here nor there. The other thing to remember, and I could be wrong, but with the variability of component specification in these Electronics, it is possible to have two identical units that function slightly differently, I've had that happen with a Cambridge audio integrated I had a long time ago. I got one and believe it or not got sent a second one by mistake. Just for fun I decided to hook them both up and one of them sounded different than the other one, believe it or not both Of them hooked to the same speakers. Anyway bud thanks for watching and thanks for commenting
@@Audiorevueyes I understand. I used a dB meter to check the volume with a steady state 1 Killohertz signal. There was zero change in volume. At least you get a mild change, I got zero change. I also had a problem with a loki. I had no problems with getting a replacement loki. They also offered to replace this preamp too. But this time, I did not want a replacement. In addition to zero boost in active one mode, I was hearing noise when using certain cables. So I decided to return it for a refund. Customer service is a little different in that case. Thanks for sharing your experience!
@@scottbennett3119 Ideally, both passive and low gain should have the same 0dB gain. The fact that @Audiorevue experienced a slight increase in volume from passive to low gain is likely because his power amplifier has a low input impedance. This is due to the particular power amplifier he used, not the Saga 2.
Good review. Did you happen to try the headphone amp section? I know it doesn't have the power of their dedicated headphone amps but I bet it still sounds great and I think it would be Class A too.
Yes I did try it actually I forgot to mention it because I sort of got to thinking about talking about it as a preamplifier, which is primarily how I used it. Although I did try the headphone amplifier and it is good, I would agree it's not as powerful as their dedicated headphone amplifiers, but for casual use where you're not looking for the top 99% of performance, it's more than adequate and retains a lot of the same sound qualities I talked about regarding the actual preamplifier.
Does this get quite warm to the touch, Kara to me (similar to this) sounds best in passive mode less distortion leading notes are clearer, active modes have more punch but you miss a touch of the nuances, if you have a power amp that has reasonable high gain already and a source with good power then it works perfectly in passive
@@Audiorevue I fully understand your reasoning for active mode but if you want the best detail, highest signal to noise ratio then passive is the way, unfortunately passive will likely not work for all situations and may sound anaemic if your power amp doesn't have the required specs, which are a high gain on power amp stage and relative high resistance in input stage and short speaker cable lengths less than 10 feet, otherwise you might attenuated high frequencies, but then again active mode would likely suit most people, it was designed to use the Nexus system anyways which facilitates a balanced system from single ended connections
@@carlitosgomez71 I don't know dude as I mentioned in the video I've heard some pretty expensive equipment over the years, everything from high-end McIntosh to audio research to even A full esoteric system, and out of everything I've ever had and everything I've ever heard gain in the preamp stage is the way to go.. I'm not trying to argue with you, not by a long shot. Everybody's valued to their opinion, but the reality Of it is, go look up any high-end company, doesn't matter who they are and it doesn't matter how much their products cost. But every high-end Hi-Fi company that makes a separate system designs their preamps with a active gain stage of varying degrees. I know I am aware about 15 or 20 years ago, long before s*** audio, passive preamps where all the rage in the UK and a few other places around Europe and China and they would wax poetic about how great it sounded and how clear and just you felt like the music was there. But over the ensuing two decades most of these guys have let go of those passive preamps and have moved on. They've moved on because they've realized that when you add gain at the preamp stage, it truly adds a sense of body to the sound And mass and muscle to the sound that regardless of the gain of your power amp a passive preamp can never achieve. I've even heard the fancy passive preamps that have the transformers in them with the relay attenuators, I remember hearing one that was about $6,000. It sounded great and very crystalline and clear and you feel like you could hear each note, just as you're talking about, but it didn't have any emotion to it and it didn't have any life or body to the sound and it just made everything sound flat and uninteresting and boring. And it didn't matter how good it was because the longer you listen to it the more you felt like you just wanted to turn it off and go wash the dishes or trim the dog or something. As I said in the video music should be fun and frankly passive preamplifiers don't do that. A lot of people listen to music because they want to hear every note and all the detail And relish and flagellate themselves on the transience and purity of notes as you said. But at the end of the day I should feel music and I should feel the music deep down, I shouldn't have to think about what I'm listening to, I shouldn't have to think about how to appreciate what it is I'm listening to. It should just be fantastic regardless. And when I listen to these boring purity systems as you insinuate, they are fantastic but the only reason they're fantastic is because you sit around while listening to music thinking about how fantastic they are. You shouldn't have to do that, you should simply enjoy the music, without any of the chin stroking.
Yes, people do. What you would do is just set your volume on your active speakers to 3/4 and then use the preamp as source selection and volume control
I did send mine back for no gain on active one mode, but I was impressed with the build quality and surprisingly heavy construction. I noticed you thought it was unimpressive in build quality. I do have to disagree on that. I enjoyed your review, though.
You misunderstand, I didn't really say that it was unimpressive, I believe what I said was that the newer chassis that they're building aren't as good as they used to make them. Overall for the money it cost, it's not bad, but all you have to do is get a hold of an older Asgard 2 or some of their older equipment and the build quality was higher than it is now, I rasped on the top of the lid to demonstrate exactly what I'm talking about. But truthfully it's a great preamplifier and really one of my favorite pieces of theirs, at least in my top five. Anyway thanks for watching and thanks for commenting
@@AudiorevueI’d love to hear what your top five are. I’ve been stuck with my Syn, Modi, and WiiM for a year because I was trying different AV options but somewhere along the way I decided to really work towards a great 2 channel setup and get that and room acoustics nailed down before going further with HT. I’ve almost convinced myself to go way up the chain with McIntosh gear but struggling (almost in a moral way) about spending $12,000 or more. I like the Syn and it can be fun but it’s was really just meant to be a couple of month stopgap.
@@williamhicks2763 well over the years probably my top five products of theirs is in this order: Og Mani Og aegir Og modi multi-bit Saga 2 Og modi. I'm going to say that truth be Said the Hi-Fi game is one in which the more you spend the less you get. I've learned over the years that it doesn't really matter how expensive the equipment is, in the sense that more expensive equipment doesn't necessarily equal a more satisfactory experience. I've learned that all The different manufacturers create equipment that sounds different, and truth be said The goal is to figure out which type of sound you like and then go with it. Some people don't want to believe that, I've read plenty of things over the years where people claim that all amps sound the same or whatever, or if it's a DAC then all Of them using the same chip sound the same, none of this is true. I have quite literally put my money where my mouth is over the years buying this stuff and figuring out what it sounds like and I can honestly say all of it sounds different, every product category sounds different from a manufacturer perspective. When I got started in this hobby I thought to myself that what I wanted was a warm Rich involving sound, that's great but I learned also that over time that warm richness comes at the cost of excitement. And the more you listen to a truly warm and Rich system the more boring it becomes and ultimately the less you want to listen to it. For me personally I've found I really enjoy what could be described as the British sound, and I'm not talking about the one Cambridge audio likes to talk about in its promotional material. I'm talking about what you might want to call the rega sound, a sound that on the surface is warm and Rich but actually less tonally dense, particularly in the mid-range but it's a sound that has no end in terms of creating a sense of excitement to the music. It's that excitement at the end of the day that benefits all genres of music, not just pop music or rock or the usual suspects people like to talk about when they talk about that type of thing. It benefits jazz, it benefits classical, it benefits James Taylor and easy listening. I remember the first time I heard a rega set up And I was quite literally blown away, because it had this sense of rhythm and drive and this sense that you were hearing whatever music it played before the beach, if that makes sense, and it just made listening to music not only fun but I think more involving as a result. Now some British manufacturers do that better than others and some manufacturers will create that sense of excitement but it's overdone, and it's overdone to the point where after about an hour of listening you want to turn it off because it becomes too much, but Rega I think does a great job and naim also does a fantastic job in that regard. When it comes to high-end equipment like Mcintosh or luxman or acuphase this equipment is fantastic and if I had to put my money on anything I would buy the Mcintosh. only because every time I've heard a modern Mcintosh system I can't help but be seriously impressed, to the point where I don't feel anything is lacking about the sound that it creates. Another one is acoustic research, that would actually be my preferred high-end brand if I were to choose one. But at the end of the day in my experience to create the sound that I enjoy I don't need to spend $12,000, all I need to spend at a minimum is pick up any used Rega amplifier for $500 or less and I'm good to go. Anyway like I said find the sound that you enjoy and go with the equipment that produces that sound and you'll always be happy, thanks for watching and thanks for commenting.
@@Audiorevue I’ve heard AlphaAudio talk about that rhythm and timing being different between different components on many of their equipment shootouts and when it’s right you just know it. But of course they have the luxury of comparing side by side many different similar components with the same music at the same time. I think you and they are describing something very similar and some components (preamps, integrated, streamers, DACs, maybe even cables play a role) either have it or don’t. I thank you for taking the time to describe your preferences in detail and I will try to seek out a dealer that can demonstrate that to me in some way. So far in my journey of moving from a fairly good but mainstream AV receiver (that broke) to a system I can really enjoy I first tried Emotiva Mono-blocks with a Monolith processor and got better sound than I have ever had before (after many weeks of tweaking). Along the way I listen to many different speakers and processors but not many real 2-channel amps. One day I went to check out the Sonus Faber Olimpicas at a high end dealer mainly because they would look perfect in our house. While there, my son and I thought they were fine but just wasn’t feeling it for the price. Then the dealer had us spin our chair around to the opposite wall where there were a pair of SF Amatis driven by probably 100k of McIntosh gear and it was like I had found it at last. Not only would the Amatis look even more beautiful in our home but I can barely begin to describe how much difference I was hearing and how much more I was enjoying what I was hearing than anything else I had hear around town or anywhere else. And yes, I did listen to much more expensive speakers that day but I kept coming back to that room to hear the Amatis and my son felt the same. I’m sure a lot of it had to do with room treatments and speaker placement and many other things than just the equipment but I indeed felt like ai had found the end of the road, if not for the price of everything. Just one small example of many that day was a country song with deep vocals where every now and then the singer would slap the front of his guitar. I don’t know any better way to describe it than, being a long time amateur acoustic guitar player myself, I could hear (seriously) the type of wood the guitar was made of. People might scoff at that but I could probably have told you the exact guitar and strings he was using. It was truly remarkable. But forgetting that refinement for a second, I just loved the music of many genres I was hearing and some of it was my own personal choices of music I am super familiar with. I’m not a reviewer and just don’t have the words to describe how blown away we were that day. Some of it WAS probably the rhythm. Took my son back with my wife along and same thing. I came away from that day knowing what my end game sounded like but knew I would not be able to afford it for many years and, frankly, I don’t have all that many years left. So, I decided to start working on my room mostly and rather than buy more middle of the road electronics, I decided to get my room right (acoustics and power) then 2-channel equipment, and then finally, maybe if not me my son, could one day afford speakers like the Amatis and have a system worthy of putting them in. In the mean time my old subwoofer broke and I replaced it with a 15” Rythmic that I like. My old speakers started going so I went with KEF R11 Metas which have a good wife acceptance factor but I’m sure there are many others that I could have gone with. It was half a sound decision and half a decor decision. I never considered the McIntosh gear with higher end Klipsch because I don’t have the width or space for them but I hear that might be one of the best pairings. I have a big room but only so much width for the entertainment equipment. I know find myself still using a Schiit Syn, Emotiva XPA mono-blocks, and such just because nothing I tried got me closer to where I wanted to go. But, I’m at a point where I can finally spend what I consider serious cash on electronics, and sort of want to do so before inflation makes it any harder. I am very interested in the McIntosh MA12000 or similar separates but there are some other options I’ve never heard but stick in my mind from reviews and some lower priced McIntosh options I need to compare. I sort of ruled out PS Audio but I’m sure they have excellent sounding equipment. I’d love to hear Music Fidelity’s best equipment but I’d probably have to get on a plane to do that. (Not totally ruling that out.). But it feels like the easiest way for me to head in the right direction is to go back to my local dealer and compare my Macintosh options. Not to say that if I could move forward for less money that I wouldn’t be happy to do so. Everything is a trade off and I think I am somewhat paralyzed by indecision and some of that is that it isn’t really comfortable for me to spend that much on this endeavor. Of course I wasn’t comfortable with what my wife spent on furniture either. Anyway, just needed to think through it and thank you for your reviews and taking the time to point out the importance of rhythm and timing and I will certainly try to hear differences in that before making a final decision. I’m open to advice from anyone still. PS: At one point I decided to buy a pair of SF Amati speakers on the used market and that became a whole long story that went no where. Despite the price, I would like to buy new with a warranty at this point for any equipment or just do without.
Still prefer the old Saga S/+. I'm not a fan of wall wart. You're right that the quality has gone down a bit. Metal is thinner, height is shorter, wallwart instead of transformer.
If everything else (including the important stuff) was improved, I'd happily trade a bit of metal thickness, height (not really a bad thing), and send the transformer to my power strip.
[1] I owned the Freya Noval. No bass. Stereophile measurements that showed it too. If you think music should sound thin and weak, then you'll love this. [2] Stop apologizing for rejecting no gain, passive preamps. That idea is for mentally weak, imbecilic twerps who've talked themselves into believing that ghostly, wimpy sound = purity. It doesn't. You need gain to get good sound. There's not more detail with passives; just less natural body, which leads nitwits to think they're hearing something they're not. Rock on.
The Freya amps were known for the same reason to some extent. The tubes help rectify that. Ironically i have a tube amp and prefer the practice or active grain. The active gain with balanced sounds the best.
All right well then don't watch, although thanks for watching. If you'd like you could call my customer service number and speak with an agent and they will be more than happy to record your complaint for future record, 1-866 -382 -5968
So everybody another viewer pointed out how I forgot to mention the headphone amplifier, well I'm going to pin this comment to rectify that.
I did try the headphone amplifier although I sort of forgot to mention it because I got focused on talking about it as a preamp which is how I primarily used it.
I would say that the headphone amp is not as good as one of their dedicated headphone amps and probably even the lowly magni is more powerful with better Bass, but the one that's built in to the saga 2 retains 99% of all the sound quality I talked about when talking about the preamp and would be good for most casual use.
As long as you don't want the absolute top performance it's excellent, I would say that it's equivalent to a good headphone amp on an integrated amplifier. At least in terms of power and things like bass output and general performance.
Like you I own a Saga+ and have recently purchased the Saga 2 and one Gjallarhorn power amp. I noticed with my Grado SR80 headphones connected to the Saga 2's headphone input that the gain automatically bumps to the 1x gain setting. Maybe you can test your Saga 2 to confirm. Thanks.
I checked the internal headphone amp again and plugging in the Grado headphones does not automatically bump the gain up to 1x. Gain stays at whatever gain setting selected prior to inserting the headphone connector. 🎵
@@dougcampbell2814 Hi.... what did you think of the sound quality using your SR80s? I have a pair of RS2Es and I'm strongly considering buying the Saga 2... thanks for the feedback.
@@nationalsfanaticable I thought the SR80s sounded great with full yet non-boomy bass and a pleasant sounding midragne and treble. Much like a mid-line Grado cartridge. I did feel that the passive mode sounded best with the SR80. When using the 1x and 4x gain settings of the Saga 2 the sound became to warm for my ears and overly detailed and sharp. For $279 this is a LOT of preamp.
I had some Maggie 0.7s and a couple of those Fosi v3 mono locks sitting around. I decided to grab this Saga2 since I saw it had balanced outputs. I have an original Saga from years back that I still use and enjoy. Im kinda shocked at how good this budget front end sounds. The budget side of the hobby has really gotten crazy.
Just picked it up today to power my Zone 2 speakers via balanced to a Crown Class D amp. No more cleanbox :)
I completely agree with your insight on the "PRAT" of the Saga 2. My previous preamp was the original Saga. Saga 2 gives the music better detail, energy, and weight.
Yes, I agree, and it’s not just the added energy from the gain, I think a lot of it has to do with just a wholesale change of sound that they’ve implemented over the past couple of years.
I’m a fan because while the slow melodic sound is great when you listen to slow melodic music, it tends to temper, energetic music, and make that music sound boring. For anyone that’s never experienced that Prat, in my opinion it’s one of the single best attributes a system can have. As I said in the video, not only does it elevate, fast, tempo, music, but it also elevates the intonation and emotional impact and the ebb and flow of music better. Hence it carries the musical message better.
@@Audiorevue It really does produce emotion.
@@Audiorevue Have you tried the Aegir 2? I wonder if it has that similar characteristic?
No I haven't tried the second version although I have tried the original. It seems to me that the majority of their products over the past 2 to 3 years have exhibited this type of sound, so I would say that the new Aegir does as well
Well mine stopped working after four weeks. Two weeks after return period. Now I have to send it back at my expense to warranty it. While it worked it sounded okay. Passive was anemic but the active modes gave it some punch at the expense of a driven sound which didn't bother me.
@@EricNorstrom oh no, sorry to hear that, I know that always sucks. You should still be under the warranty so I don't imagine they would charge you and besides if you were going to send something back as a return you'd have to pay shipping anyway,schiit does not pay return shipping And of course you lose 15% on top of that.
That said I've had nothing but great experiences with their customer service over the years and have always came away very satisfied with my interactions with the company.
@@Audiorevue thanks for the note! That's great to know that you've had good experiences. Dropping it in the mail today so hopefully everything goes smoothly.
@@EricNorstrom yeah I'm sure it will. Out of the probably 50 products I've ordered from them over the years, I've only ever had a problem once, and that was with the modi 2 usb DAC. It had a problem where no matter what computer I plugged it into the computer would stop recognizing it after about 5 minutes. Anyway of course I had to pay to ship it back but they took care of it
Og Saga owner, so this is a cool review to catch!
Have you heard the Kara?
I need two sets of single ended outs in my current setup.
Interesting to pull in the Ayre pre, that’s a nice nod.
Like your review!
No I haven't heard the Kara, although I would be under the assumption it is a better version of this, and if that's the case then I could argue that it's damn near perfect. Though I typically don't comment on stuff I really haven't heard.
Yeah in regards to my k5xemp, I picked it up I think 4 or 5 months ago for a great price I mean literally a steal and unfortunately it was one of the products I sold when I moved into my new place but I noticed a lot of similarities between the saga 2 and that so I felt it important to mention it.
I also felt it important to mention it because a lot of people will always when they review something, say that a product is as good as things 10 times as costly, but they won't actually have any comparisons to back up that claim, well I do.
@@ScottoGrotto Kara sounds great in my system you'll be hard pushed to find a preamp with these specs and performance for the given price , including 5 year warranty and made in the USA
Don't let bad habits develop early. Cable management is part of the hobby👍.
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Early ? I’ve been doing this now for over 10 years. My cables are as my cables are, I ain’t gonna change and I haven’t noticed a difference in sound with my cables the way they are.
Great review. Question, would the Modi Multibit be a good desktop DAC?
I don't see why not, I guess the only thing would be if you don't mind the size but it's a small item anyway. I guess I'm just thinking about something like the audioquest dragonfly that's quite a bit smaller and more portable.
@@Audiorevue my pre amp is an Emotiva A2M which is larger. My current DAC is the Schiit Hel2.
Oh okay, I know when I think about a desktop situation I always think about maybe the smallest thing possible, but yeah The modi multi-bit will work perfect And definitely be an upgrade over what you have now.
I went from a Modi to a Modi Multibit, and the sound quality increase was noticeable.
I really wish you would have reviewed the Saga+. Not much info on the web about its sound character. Does the Saga+ sound change depending on the valve used? How does the Saga+ compare with the other Saga versions? Since you've owned it, I would like your feedback on the Saga+. I'm seriously looking into purchasing one because I already have some really good 6SN7 tubes I could use with it. Thank you.
I never actually had the saga Plus, I had the OG saga and the saga s . Now everything I've ever read about the saga plus was that it retained a lot of the character of the OG saga just with added refinement, so I think I could comment on its sound.
Like I said in the video I really enjoyed the original saga when I had it, I thought it was great sounding and with great mid-range and this great sense of clarity and the ability of feeling like you were there, and that was all with the stock tube.
Did try tube rolling a little bit with the original saga and you would get different characteristics with it, like I tried an electro-harmonex and a tung sol And a black bottom RCA, they all changed up the flavor a little bit, My favorite being the RCA but I always thought that it retained the same sound quality regardless of tube. Basically you got the same basic flavor regardless but it would change some of the tonal characteristics
Another thing I forgot to mention and don't take this as a knock against the original saga or the saga plus, but me as a listener as much as I love tubes and I love the sound that they make and just everything about them, truthfully I don't like dealing with them. Firstly there's the aspect of tubes wearing out and then there's the aspect of my sort of OCD optimizer mentality comes out when I have a tube product and I want to buy 50 different tubes to try out in it. I always find for whatever reason when I have a piece of tube gear as much as I love its sound I'm never quite happy with it because of this.
Anyway man I hope this helped and thanks for watching..
@@Audiorevue What are for you the differences in sound when you compare the Saga 2 to the Saga s. I own the Saga s and I dislike that there is no gain at all. I have to turn the volume up to 3 o clock to get reasonable sound on my LRS +. My amps are Fosi mono V3.
Well obviously the added gain, but really the biggest thing is this sense of drive and I think I mentioned that like three or four times in the video. You basically think of a real rhythmic song that you enjoy, and imagine that song being played on a Technics SL 1200. Through the saga s that rhythmic song is like turning the speed fader down several notches so that your favorite highly rhythmic highly energetic song then becomes ponderous. Now the saga 2 is the same thing but hit that fader up one click from center, it injects more life and energy into music. Sort of like you can feel the rhythm more.
No it doesn't speed up anything in actuality, but you get the impression that you can feel the rhythm more and like the music has more life and energy.
And that's what the British call Prat, Pace rhythm and timing. And that's also what I mean when I say it has a great sense of drive.
As I also mentioned in the video you do still have to turn it up a little bit, probably to get around 80 DB of sound pressure for me I had it up around 11:00 sometimes between 11:00 and 12:00, now of course that doesn't mean anything's wrong with it it's just the way their gain structure works in their pre-amplifiers.
Thanks for this review! I have a question, if you don't mind. Is there a noticeable, obvious change in gain when going from passive mode to active mode one? Thank you
Yes it is noticeable through each step, from passive to the low gain to The high Gain, with each step you notice an increase in volume
@@AudiorevueThanks for that. I bought this unit brand new from Schiit a few weeks ago. There was absolutely no difference going from passive to active one. However, there was a big boost going to active two as expected. I tried different amplifiers with the unit as instructed by Schiit technical department, but still no boost whatsoever in active one. I rechecked many times and no boost. So I sent it back to Schiit, they charged me for the return shipping and when they got the unit back said it was okay and charged me 20% restock fee. I said your tester is mistaken, active one does not work. I had to threaten to open a case with my credit card company to get my restock fee back. I am not thrilled with Schiit at the moment. Sorry about the rant. Thanks for getting back to me.
@scottbennett3119 well on mine the light that indicates which stage you're in is far dimmer than the light for the input indicator. I Emailed them and they said as long as it works, now that's not really a knock against schiit Audio, I've had nothing but great experience with their customer service over the years, however I have had a few bum products from time to time.
Any company that puts a product on to the market is going to have a few that go out the door that are duds, but that's just the nature of production, right?
I would have advised you to keep it, I mean if you like it, and I should be clear that when going to the first active stage there was A difference in sound and an increase in volume, but only slight, when you went to the high Gain that's when you really noticed the increase. It's probably yours was functioning appropriately as they said. But that's neither here nor there.
The other thing to remember, and I could be wrong, but with the variability of component specification in these Electronics, it is possible to have two identical units that function slightly differently, I've had that happen with a Cambridge audio integrated I had a long time ago. I got one and believe it or not got sent a second one by mistake. Just for fun I decided to hook them both up and one of them sounded different than the other one, believe it or not both Of them hooked to the same speakers.
Anyway bud thanks for watching and thanks for commenting
@@Audiorevueyes I understand. I used a dB meter to check the volume with a steady state 1 Killohertz signal. There was zero change in volume. At least you get a mild change, I got zero change. I also had a problem with a loki. I had no problems with getting a replacement loki. They also offered to replace this preamp too. But this time, I did not want a replacement. In addition to zero boost in active one mode, I was hearing noise when using certain cables. So I decided to return it for a refund. Customer service is a little different in that case. Thanks for sharing your experience!
@@scottbennett3119 Ideally, both passive and low gain should have the same 0dB gain. The fact that @Audiorevue experienced a slight increase in volume from passive to low gain is likely because his power amplifier has a low input impedance. This is due to the particular power amplifier he used, not the Saga 2.
Good review. Did you happen to try the headphone amp section? I know it doesn't have the power of their dedicated headphone amps but I bet it still sounds great and I think it would be Class A too.
Yes I did try it actually I forgot to mention it because I sort of got to thinking about talking about it as a preamplifier, which is primarily how I used it. Although I did try the headphone amplifier and it is good, I would agree it's not as powerful as their dedicated headphone amplifiers, but for casual use where you're not looking for the top 99% of performance, it's more than adequate and retains a lot of the same sound qualities I talked about regarding the actual preamplifier.
@@Audiorevue Cool, thanks. Looks like a real winner here.
Does this get quite warm to the touch, Kara to me (similar to this) sounds best in passive mode less distortion leading notes are clearer, active modes have more punch but you miss a touch of the nuances, if you have a power amp that has reasonable high gain already and a source with good power then it works perfectly in passive
Not necessarily, probably gets about 20° above ambient. As to my thoughts on passive preamps, just see my statements in the first part of my video.
@@Audiorevue I fully understand your reasoning for active mode but if you want the best detail, highest signal to noise ratio then passive is the way, unfortunately passive will likely not work for all situations and may sound anaemic if your power amp doesn't have the required specs, which are a high gain on power amp stage and relative high resistance in input stage and short speaker cable lengths less than 10 feet, otherwise you might attenuated high frequencies, but then again active mode would likely suit most people, it was designed to use the Nexus system anyways which facilitates a balanced system from single ended connections
@@carlitosgomez71 I don't know dude as I mentioned in the video I've heard some pretty expensive equipment over the years, everything from high-end McIntosh to audio research to even A full esoteric system, and out of everything I've ever had and everything I've ever heard gain in the preamp stage is the way to go..
I'm not trying to argue with you, not by a long shot. Everybody's valued to their opinion, but the reality Of it is, go look up any high-end company, doesn't matter who they are and it doesn't matter how much their products cost. But every high-end Hi-Fi company that makes a separate system designs their preamps with a active gain stage of varying degrees.
I know I am aware about 15 or 20 years ago, long before s*** audio, passive preamps where all the rage in the UK and a few other places around Europe and China and they would wax poetic about how great it sounded and how clear and just you felt like the music was there. But over the ensuing two decades most of these guys have let go of those passive preamps and have moved on. They've moved on because they've realized that when you add gain at the preamp stage, it truly adds a sense of body to the sound And mass and muscle to the sound that regardless of the gain of your power amp a passive preamp can never achieve. I've even heard the fancy passive preamps that have the transformers in them with the relay attenuators, I remember hearing one that was about $6,000. It sounded great and very crystalline and clear and you feel like you could hear each note, just as you're talking about, but it didn't have any emotion to it and it didn't have any life or body to the sound and it just made everything sound flat and uninteresting and boring. And it didn't matter how good it was because the longer you listen to it the more you felt like you just wanted to turn it off and go wash the dishes or trim the dog or something.
As I said in the video music should be fun and frankly passive preamplifiers don't do that. A lot of people listen to music because they want to hear every note and all the detail And relish and flagellate themselves on the transience and purity of notes as you said. But at the end of the day I should feel music and I should feel the music deep down, I shouldn't have to think about what I'm listening to, I shouldn't have to think about how to appreciate what it is I'm listening to. It should just be fantastic regardless. And when I listen to these boring purity systems as you insinuate, they are fantastic but the only reason they're fantastic is because you sit around while listening to music thinking about how fantastic they are. You shouldn't have to do that, you should simply enjoy the music, without any of the chin stroking.
Imagining things are we?
How am I imagining things? Like what exactly do you mean?
Is Preamplifier something I can directly connect to active speakers (Adam T5V) using my PC as source?
Yes, people do. What you would do is just set your volume on your active speakers to 3/4 and then use the preamp as source selection and volume control
This dude is so hard core he got a totally schitt haircut just for this product 😁
You know it😂
😂
I did send mine back for no gain on active one mode, but I was impressed with the build quality and surprisingly heavy construction. I noticed you thought it was unimpressive in build quality. I do have to disagree on that. I enjoyed your review, though.
You misunderstand, I didn't really say that it was unimpressive, I believe what I said was that the newer chassis that they're building aren't as good as they used to make them. Overall for the money it cost, it's not bad, but all you have to do is get a hold of an older Asgard 2 or some of their older equipment and the build quality was higher than it is now, I rasped on the top of the lid to demonstrate exactly what I'm talking about.
But truthfully it's a great preamplifier and really one of my favorite pieces of theirs, at least in my top five.
Anyway thanks for watching and thanks for commenting
@@AudiorevueI’d love to hear what your top five are. I’ve been stuck with my Syn, Modi, and WiiM for a year because I was trying different AV options but somewhere along the way I decided to really work towards a great 2 channel setup and get that and room acoustics nailed down before going further with HT. I’ve almost convinced myself to go way up the chain with McIntosh gear but struggling (almost in a moral way) about spending $12,000 or more. I like the Syn and it can be fun but it’s was really just meant to be a couple of month stopgap.
@@williamhicks2763 well over the years probably my top five products of theirs is in this order:
Og Mani
Og aegir
Og modi multi-bit
Saga 2
Og modi.
I'm going to say that truth be Said the Hi-Fi game is one in which the more you spend the less you get. I've learned over the years that it doesn't really matter how expensive the equipment is, in the sense that more expensive equipment doesn't necessarily equal a more satisfactory experience. I've learned that all The different manufacturers create equipment that sounds different, and truth be said The goal is to figure out which type of sound you like and then go with it.
Some people don't want to believe that, I've read plenty of things over the years where people claim that all amps sound the same or whatever, or if it's a DAC then all Of them using the same chip sound the same, none of this is true. I have quite literally put my money where my mouth is over the years buying this stuff and figuring out what it sounds like and I can honestly say all of it sounds different, every product category sounds different from a manufacturer perspective.
When I got started in this hobby I thought to myself that what I wanted was a warm Rich involving sound, that's great but I learned also that over time that warm richness comes at the cost of excitement. And the more you listen to a truly warm and Rich system the more boring it becomes and ultimately the less you want to listen to it.
For me personally I've found I really enjoy what could be described as the British sound, and I'm not talking about the one Cambridge audio likes to talk about in its promotional material. I'm talking about what you might want to call the rega sound, a sound that on the surface is warm and Rich but actually less tonally dense, particularly in the mid-range but it's a sound that has no end in terms of creating a sense of excitement to the music. It's that excitement at the end of the day that benefits all genres of music, not just pop music or rock or the usual suspects people like to talk about when they talk about that type of thing. It benefits jazz, it benefits classical, it benefits James Taylor and easy listening. I remember the first time I heard a rega set up And I was quite literally blown away, because it had this sense of rhythm and drive and this sense that you were hearing whatever music it played before the beach, if that makes sense, and it just made listening to music not only fun but I think more involving as a result. Now some British manufacturers do that better than others and some manufacturers will create that sense of excitement but it's overdone, and it's overdone to the point where after about an hour of listening you want to turn it off because it becomes too much, but Rega I think does a great job and naim also does a fantastic job in that regard.
When it comes to high-end equipment like Mcintosh or luxman or acuphase this equipment is fantastic and if I had to put my money on anything I would buy the Mcintosh. only because every time I've heard a modern Mcintosh system I can't help but be seriously impressed, to the point where I don't feel anything is lacking about the sound that it creates. Another one is acoustic research, that would actually be my preferred high-end brand if I were to choose one.
But at the end of the day in my experience to create the sound that I enjoy I don't need to spend $12,000, all I need to spend at a minimum is pick up any used Rega amplifier for $500 or less and I'm good to go.
Anyway like I said find the sound that you enjoy and go with the equipment that produces that sound and you'll always be happy, thanks for watching and thanks for commenting.
@@Audiorevue Thank you!
@@Audiorevue I’ve heard AlphaAudio talk about that rhythm and timing being different between different components on many of their equipment shootouts and when it’s right you just know it. But of course they have the luxury of comparing side by side many different similar components with the same music at the same time. I think you and they are describing something very similar and some components (preamps, integrated, streamers, DACs, maybe even cables play a role) either have it or don’t. I thank you for taking the time to describe your preferences in detail and I will try to seek out a dealer that can demonstrate that to me in some way.
So far in my journey of moving from a fairly good but mainstream AV receiver (that broke) to a system I can really enjoy I first tried Emotiva Mono-blocks with a Monolith processor and got better sound than I have ever had before (after many weeks of tweaking). Along the way I listen to many different speakers and processors but not many real 2-channel amps. One day I went to check out the Sonus Faber Olimpicas at a high end dealer mainly because they would look perfect in our house. While there, my son and I thought they were fine but just wasn’t feeling it for the price. Then the dealer had us spin our chair around to the opposite wall where there were a pair of SF Amatis driven by probably 100k of McIntosh gear and it was like I had found it at last. Not only would the Amatis look even more beautiful in our home but I can barely begin to describe how much difference I was hearing and how much more I was enjoying what I was hearing than anything else I had hear around town or anywhere else. And yes, I did listen to much more expensive speakers that day but I kept coming back to that room to hear the Amatis and my son felt the same.
I’m sure a lot of it had to do with room treatments and speaker placement and many other things than just the equipment but I indeed felt like ai had found the end of the road, if not for the price of everything. Just one small example of many that day was a country song with deep vocals where every now and then the singer would slap the front of his guitar. I don’t know any better way to describe it than, being a long time amateur acoustic guitar player myself, I could hear (seriously) the type of wood the guitar was made of. People might scoff at that but I could probably have told you the exact guitar and strings he was using. It was truly remarkable. But forgetting that refinement for a second, I just loved the music of many genres I was hearing and some of it was my own personal choices of music I am super familiar with. I’m not a reviewer and just don’t have the words to describe how blown away we were that day. Some of it WAS probably the rhythm. Took my son back with my wife along and same thing.
I came away from that day knowing what my end game sounded like but knew I would not be able to afford it for many years and, frankly, I don’t have all that many years left. So, I decided to start working on my room mostly and rather than buy more middle of the road electronics, I decided to get my room right (acoustics and power) then 2-channel equipment, and then finally, maybe if not me my son, could one day afford speakers like the Amatis and have a system worthy of putting them in. In the mean time my old subwoofer broke and I replaced it with a 15” Rythmic that I like. My old speakers started going so I went with KEF R11 Metas which have a good wife acceptance factor but I’m sure there are many others that I could have gone with. It was half a sound decision and half a decor decision. I never considered the McIntosh gear with higher end Klipsch because I don’t have the width or space for them but I hear that might be one of the best pairings. I have a big room but only so much width for the entertainment equipment.
I know find myself still using a Schiit Syn, Emotiva XPA mono-blocks, and such just because nothing I tried got me closer to where I wanted to go. But, I’m at a point where I can finally spend what I consider serious cash on electronics, and sort of want to do so before inflation makes it any harder. I am very interested in the McIntosh MA12000 or similar separates but there are some other options I’ve never heard but stick in my mind from reviews and some lower priced McIntosh options I need to compare. I sort of ruled out PS Audio but I’m sure they have excellent sounding equipment. I’d love to hear Music Fidelity’s best equipment but I’d probably have to get on a plane to do that. (Not totally ruling that out.). But it feels like the easiest way for me to head in the right direction is to go back to my local dealer and compare my Macintosh options. Not to say that if I could move forward for less money that I wouldn’t be happy to do so. Everything is a trade off and I think I am somewhat paralyzed by indecision and some of that is that it isn’t really comfortable for me to spend that much on this endeavor. Of course I wasn’t comfortable with what my wife spent on furniture either. Anyway, just needed to think through it and thank you for your reviews and taking the time to point out the importance of rhythm and timing and I will certainly try to hear differences in that before making a final decision. I’m open to advice from anyone still.
PS: At one point I decided to buy a pair of SF Amati speakers on the used market and that became a whole long story that went no where. Despite the price, I would like to buy new with a warranty at this point for any equipment or just do without.
Still prefer the old Saga S/+. I'm not a fan of wall wart. You're right that the quality has gone down a bit. Metal is thinner, height is shorter, wallwart instead of transformer.
If everything else (including the important stuff) was improved, I'd happily trade a bit of metal thickness, height (not really a bad thing), and send the transformer to my power strip.
[1] I owned the Freya Noval. No bass. Stereophile measurements that showed it too. If you think music should sound thin and weak, then you'll love this. [2] Stop apologizing for rejecting no gain, passive preamps. That idea is for mentally weak, imbecilic twerps who've talked themselves into believing that ghostly, wimpy sound = purity. It doesn't. You need gain to get good sound. There's not more detail with passives; just less natural body, which leads nitwits to think they're hearing something they're not. Rock on.
Daddy didn't hug you enough when you were a child?
The Freya amps were known for the same reason to some extent. The tubes help rectify that. Ironically i have a tube amp and prefer the practice or active grain. The active gain with balanced sounds the best.
Lost me after 2 minuten. I thought it was 5. You need to many words.
All right well then don't watch, although thanks for watching. If you'd like you could call my customer service number and speak with an agent and they will be more than happy to record your complaint for future record, 1-866 -382 -5968
@@Audiorevue Your review was good and spot on with my findings. Never mind those with short memory spans. 😉
Perfect example of the Instant Gratification culture.