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This truly is the best way to build an amazing audio system. It's exactly how I started! I built my systems around 2 preamplifiers that I've owned since the 90's. Swapping out pieces along the way. Schitt has made this process much easier!!!
@@dakudakota8502 Only if your reciever has pre-amp input connections. Check the back panel as they should be labeled. Not all recievers have them, but some do. Good luck! I hope your unit has pre-amp inputs!
@@ginom407 thank you for replying. Yes my receiver has pre outs. And do you think Saga S would be a good fit for my speakers? I have triangle borea br08 floor standing speakers. Or should i go with freya? Is there any difference between these two?
As someone who is very new to all this and yet who has seen/heard the term preamp for decades but just didn’t understand what the heck its job is or how it differs from an integrated amp, I really appreciate this adventure. Thanks!!
You can't switch between outputs. Despite having relays they are ganged. The remote only controls the input selection and the passive/buffer choice. One note by putting a Lokius on the output you can drive two Schiit monoblocks using the XLR outputs.
I purchased a used Saga pre-amp (with tube) to add remote control to my 1974 Pioneer SX727 integrated receiver with circa 1984 Polk Audio SDA CRS SPEAKERS. (Bought the Pioneer and Polks new.) This receiver has plugs to allow the pre-amp to be disconnected from the amp section. I plugged the output from the Saga to the “amp in” on the Pioneer which bypasses the volume, balance and tone controls and goes straight into the amp. My Modi DAC and ifi turntable pre-amp plug into the Saga which now handles remote volume control and source selection. Works like a charm. Best money I’ve spent on HiFi recently. BTW - I don’t notice any difference between the “passive” and “tube” modes on the Saga using 2 sets of tubes so the non-tube version would be my recommendation.
Great review! I ordered one yesterday. Kudos to Schiit for not turning into a software company. Old school separates and tying them up with a string of RCA cables is where the real fun is!
The switched relays for the volume keep both channels at the same level, as nearly all potentiometers will produce an offset between channels. i.e. the exact same volume will come from both L & R outputs using the relays.
Thanks a lot Cheapaudioman!!! You gave a great idea to deal with a problem I had with my preamp and my amp to get the ideal volume with low sensitive speakers.
Great info and review of this equipment. I really liked the Keeps hair-loss program too. Now you just need to tell me your beard and moustache grooming secrets. You are always so well groomed I get distracted from the products. Keep up the great news and thank you as always for your time and efforts to educate us all.
I still have the first integrated amplifier I ever purchased, in fact, it is the only one purchased. A Denon PMA 300V, it was ample in high school, then life happened for a while....and then, in 1998, one experienced with car audio competitions, spoke of an amplifier just released, a Zapco AG 650...I had already purchased 2 Rockford punch 15's from him, and JL Audio 6.5 inch component set for the front doors...whatever was in the rear did handled rear fill, and yes, you did mention that it was 300, that Denon I bought was ...wait...I remember selling that Denon...and the search for the owner's manual.....but I found it here a few weeks ago behind a chair....I may be in a universe I'm not native to....hmmm.....if I find myself somewhere else tomorrow, thanks for your work here, it is, in my opinion, pretty freakin awesome, the subtle humor, nicely spiced...I may be right, or I may be crazy....off to bed I go, either way.
I did an extensive amount of research on the Saga S, before purchasing. My use of it is part of my endgame system. You are honestly getting the best bang for your buck as far as preamps go. From what I have gathered it is just as good as the Freya, the only disadvantage would be having half as many volume step points (64 VS 128). If you require balanced architecture, you need to go with the Freya.
Now that I have the Freya, I'll eat my words a bit here. Saga S has been fantastic, but the Freya is a major step forward. The tube stage can compete with my gear that costs considerably more money.
To your last point re: balanced architecture: not necessarily, you can go with the Kara, which is a solid state preamp (like the Saga S) but also has balanced inputs/outputs.
Mr. Randy, I cannot imagine just how great the system you described here is. All the very best to you and yours. Oh - have your had time to watch Thirteen Lives yet? Great film.
Thanks for the very timely review! I just bought a pair of ACA kits to use as mono blocks and just realized that they don't have volume controls, duh. My other amp is class A tube, and as you noted is typical for the species, it has a volume control My only input is my DAC, so my system had no preamp, and now I need one. The Schiit Saga S seems like the perfect solution, high quality and cheap. Just what I have come to expect from The Cheap Audio Man. By the way, the Saga is zero gain in both passive and active mode. The active mode is a buffer according the the Schiit spec sheet.
If you were using amp camp amps as balanced monoblocks then you need to use XLR cables. If you are using the amp camp as parallel mono then you can use RCAs. this preamp does not have XLR out so you'd have to use adapters etc for the balanced mono. It is worth trying both monoblock configurations to see what sounds best with your speakers.
@@chelillingworth9466 True, but then I would have needed a Freya S preamp to stay in the Schiit, couldn't resist :). I can run the ACA's single ended either parallel mono or bridged mono (balanced mono might be bridged?), which is good enough for me, because I'm apparently not a very discerning listener (comparing myself to reviewers like Randy), so I doubt I would be able to distinguish between balanced mono and single-ended bridged mono. And I was able to put the $200 I saved by going with the Saga towards a Lokius equalizer, which I definitely will be able to hear the effects of. With regards to balanced vs single ended, my understanding of balanced circuits is that they designed to reject noise, and offer no other benefit. Therefore, if the signal is reasonable strong (specifically supplied with sufficient current, which the Saga S definitely can deliver in active mode), the cable short, and the environment not especially electrically noisy, a single ended circuit should not pick up enough noise that it will become audible. If that is indeed the case then the balanced and single ended signals will produce the same sound, all other things being equal. I don't mean to imply that the ACA running balanced mono doesn't have a unique sound signature. It may. I haven't studied the circuits enough to determine the wiring differences between balanced mono, bridged mono. and parallel mono. I speculate that balanced mono will prove to be bridged rather than parallel.
@@stevefoster6047 it has more to do with impedance matching your speakers. Bridged for above 8 ohms, parallel for 4 ohms. Parallel is brighter and cleaner, parallel can be fuller with better bass. Most important thing is to get a preamp with lots of gain, because the ACA especially in stereo or parallel mono modes is quite low gain, the Saga will do this job very well!!!
@@chelillingworth9466 Thanks! that's great information. I think the ACAs will have plenty of power for me, stereo, parallel, or bridged. My speakers are very efficient and can perform well with just a sip of power. My current tube amp puts out a whopping 1.5W before clipping noticeably, and that gets me to a higher SPL than I care to listen. Now I'm really looking forward to what I hear with the ACAs, Thanks.
@@chelillingworth9466 Hi Chet, just wanted to thank you again for your very useful comments. I just finished my ACA's yesterday, and I figured out a way to drive them using XLR for balanced mono. They sound amazing! I was motivated by this comment that appears on the ACA V1.6 operating modes doc: "Balanced input ... removes hum that is common to both +/- inputs, and removes most of the dominant second harmonic distortion of the amplifier itself by cancellation." Sweet, definitely makes XLR input worth the effort! Turns out my Schiit Lokius offers balanced and single-ended I/O, but it equalizes single-ended and so turns that into true XLR on the XLR output, So not just a very nice 6-band equalizer, but also an active XLR converter(all for $299). Schiit's FAQ on the Lokius noted this: "Can I use both balanced and single-ended outputs at the same time? Yes. They are completely independent. Connecting to one does not influence the other." So the XLR out is driving my ACA balanced monoblocks and the SI out is driving my SI tube amp.
I second that. I got a Schitt Mani blew me away, not for the price, it litterally is that good. Got a J2 an Love it. Schitt is def always on my radar for gear now.
Great video! I'm a new audio enthusiast and just built my first system thanks to Randy's amazing posts. I literally have the set-up Randy is talking about mid video (Schiit Modi 3 / Mani > Saga S > Aiyima A07> Wharfdale Diamond 12.2s). Just set it up this week and am loving the sound. I just ordered the Sparkos Dual Discrete Op Amp chips to put in my Aiyima A07 and can't wait to hear the difference. Already have upgrade fever. What do you think the weakest link in the system is that should be upgraded first?
If you just set everything up, you don't know enough about your system to upgrade. Is there some type of problem that makes you want to make changes? I would say listen to what you have and get used to it. As far as upgrades go, you're the one who has to recognize there's something in the system you don't like. Here's one piece of advice that may help you out. Your preamp has both an active and passive mode. Its very important that you listen to it both ways, and become very familiar with differences in sound. More than anything else, that will help you as you move forward.
@@AT-wl9yq Thanks for the advice. There is absolutely no need to change anything, outside of the fact that there are so many bright shiny objects I want to try out! That being said I think you're right. I should be getting used to the system, letting it break in, and spending my hard earned cash on some much needed vinyl.
Probably already bragged on one of your other videos, can't remember, I'm pretty excited. Just bought a Schiit Freya+ (Noval) with tubes on clearance for $599. Budget? Maybe for some, but for me high end. I wanted to add tubes without going "full tube" Freya seems like a perfect device for that. Hopefully it shows up quickly 🙏 😬. You tha man! We really love your entertaining yet very informative takes on equipment.
@@michaelwright1602 I really like it. The passive stage is crystal clear, great if I just want to hear my DAC, or the source straight, the tube stage really bumps the gain and definitely softens the sound a bit. I have enjoyed it so far, I haven't tried any other tubes yet. The active stage is really no different from the passive, but is nice for upping a single ended signal to balanced. No complaints but if you already have quality equipment I wouldn't expect a dramatic change in sound. Just a quality, functional preamp with a slight softening of the edges with the tubes (and a huge bump in gain). If you are looking for a preamp I would recommend it. If you are looking for a total, full tube type sound you may want to go with something else, like a tube amp. But again, I really like it, great price, US built, no complaints.
@@ericnortan9012 Thank you for letting me know. I have the Schiit Freya, the original, and the Freya S. I have the original tube Freya boxed up, but am going to break it out this weekend to give it another spin. The Freya S is very nice, sounds good in my system using the Ares II DAC.
@@michaelwright1602 nice. I got the N specifically to give tubes a whirl. So far I am intrigued. I have heard tubes before but never owned anything so it is kind of new to me.
Got back into 2 channel listening. Reconditioned my 1978 stereo. If I were to buy new, my plan was Schitt Ageir x2, Fria, DAC etc. Everything just went up $100. So, plus $500 plus the $3000. Probably not going to happen now
My dac has volume, tone, EQ, filters. Still very clinical, which is great sometimes but I believe a tube preamp will add a little more musicality when I want it.
Try an R2R DAC. A good entry level one is the RU6 dongle DAC. I hooked up mine to my 2 channel rig, and it sounded darn near identical to my $860 Ares II R2R DAC. It honestly surprised the heck out of me in regards to the sound, and the bass boost, if you like bass.
@@michaelwright1602 Mine is an RME ADI-2 fs. I really like it, and like the sound, very revealing. The thing is, it is almost too good, the bad recordings really get exposed, all the details good and bad can be heard. The DSP is good though, it has a parametric EQ built in the digital stage so it helps cutting the nastiness out of some of my music choices.
@@ericnortan9012 That is what my experience was like too with other chip DACs I have owned, too clinical and revealing. I purchased the Ares II out of desperation, I could not listen to much of anything without getting severe ear fatigue, and an occasional headache. The R2R solved that issue, that digital signature is now gone, very very analog sounding, like a good vinyl record. That is why I suggested the RU6 at only $250, it sounds as good as that Ares II for a fraction of the cost. I think it would pair up nicely with your new Freya.
I have the Saga S and I love it. I do, however, want to upgrade to the Freya. My DAC and Amp have balanced connections, but I use unbalanced because of the Saga S. I'm wondering if I should go with the Tube version or another "S" version.
I do have the Freya+ but frankly if I were you I would save $400 and just get the Freya S. It is even a better bargain than the Saga; the tubes add problems with microphonics plus they are getting to be scarce and they tend to distort after awhile. The Tung Sol variety come from Russia...
I'm still scratching my head about balanced versus unbalanced. I have a dbx 215s in my chain and if I plug it into an unbalanced amp, I get a schiit ton of hiss. If I use the balanced out into my Peachtree amp500 (only power amp) I get VERY minimal hiss. I'm going to try the schiit eq. I know, I know, most people would immediately view an EQ as a joke, but audio is the most subjective science I've ever known. 😁
I have the Schiit Lokius, and two CD players, both Denon. One is old, one is new. The 2006 era DVD/SACD player into the Lokius is great, even in bypass it seems to bump up the input gain. But, the new Denon A110 SACD player ends up with an audible "pop" when I open the drawer or turn it off. I just plug it straight into the Jotunheim 2. Can't explain my situation, nor yours. Sometimes it's a synergy, or lack there of.
There's 2 things you need to know. Is the hiss due to too much gain, or is it due to mixing balanced and single ended components? Before you fix anything you have to know what's causing the problem. Balanced and single ended operation are not compatible. In order for balancing to work, both components need to be balanced, along with the cable you are using to connect them. If everything isn't just right, the signal isn't balanced, and what you are listening to is exactly the same as using an rca cable. Before I go on, balanced operation is not a clean subject for discussion. There's different ways a component can be balanced, and there are different options as to how things are wired. Given that, there are cases where you can get different results doing the same thing. Reading your description of the type of sound you are getting (a hiss), that tells me you probably have a gain issue. If the noise is from mixing balanced and single ended components, the typical noise you get is a loud, annoying hum. Its sounds like you are doing damage and your first instinct is to shut everything off. Unless you say otherwise, I'm not getting that from your post. If your issue is due to excessive gain, it shouldn't be too difficult to locate the problem. The first thing I would encourage you to do, is not use balanced connections. I know we just talked about it, but if your balanced connection is working properly, you will have a 4-6db increase in output gain just because the signal is balanced. As long as you don't have excessively long cable runs, you won't notice a sound quality difference. For that, you need to have fully differential components. Since you are mixing pro gear with home gear, one thing to be aware of is pro gear typically has more volume and gain controls than home gear. To get rid of a gain related hiss or noise, you have to properly set your gain structure. Volume controls are different than gain controls. Gain controls are on the input of a component, and they have the potential to distort the signal if too much gain is applied. Volume controls are on the output of a component and can't distort the signal. Starting with your source component(s) to your amp, you need to determine if your "volume controls" are really volume controls or gain controls. This info would be in the owner's manual. Once you have that sorted out, you'll need to lower your gain controls until the hiss goes away. Then you adjust how loud you want things to be with an actual volume control. If it turns out you don't have enough adjustment to get rid of the hiss, you can use Rothwell attenuators, or something equivalent.
@@AT-wl9yq Thank you for sharing your knowledge on this! I will try this out. I was just changing the output to unbalanced from the EQ to the amp, but the output from the DAC to the EQ was still Balanced. I will move them both to unbalanced and see. I have an ADI-2 PRO FS R DAC/Pre-amp -> dbx 215s -> Peachtree. I will re-wire this stuff and let you know! Thank you!
So it seems the "hiss" is coming from the dbx 215s unbalanced connections. I've tried using unbalanced all the way through and still the same issue. Even a hiss with the DAC/pre-amp turned off. If I bypass the EQ with unbalanced, the hiss is gone. If I use the balanced inputs/outputs and turn off the bypass on the dbx, the hiss is not present either. In this config, I'm using a Quad Vena II as the amp and all unbalanced from the ADI-2 PRO to the 215s to the Vena II.
I just ordered a nobsound tube pre-amp for $300 and I have my fingers crossed. I also (getting ahead of myself) ordered 4 genalex gold lion tubes and a power chord from emotiva which all together double the price of the pre-amp. Anyway wish me some luck because I never seem to get my fair share of it.
Good luck man, hope it works out. Come back here and share your thoughts...I'm always interested on how things like this work out. Run the stock tubes for a little bit first...so you can better compare vs the upgraded ones. And again, good luck..I'm rooting for ya
I went exactly route with same tubes. Tried JJ tubes, mullard tubes, and a few others. I was able to directly compare to several other pieces. I can tell you it wasn't the answer for me and was a bit of a let down when directly comparing to cheaper tube pre amps. If this is your route, I would save and get a freya +. I'm holding off buying a decent pre and buying a mini dsp next. I wish the Willsenton r8 had a pre amp out. 😥
I've had mine for a few days now. It basically sounds like nothing, which in my book is high praise for a pre. Very transparent. I can hear low level detail, that I missed with my very good 3X the price Mapletree tube pre. As with all products from this company, the case work is solid and beautifully made. Remember, though, this pre provides no gain, it is really a buffered attenuator. Didn't need the Plus version, as I already have a tube buffer from Decware. Schiit is proving to be the real bang for the buck champ.
Last night I pulled out the Declare tube buffer. System sounds better w/ Saga alone w/ JFET buffer, plus eliminates more connections and a pair of IC's. The Saga S is very impressive.
I don't know why people bother fussing around with electronics when objective measurements show that solid state are all within +/- 0.5 dB across the audible frequency range and blind tests show that people can't tell one amp/preamp from another.
I'm with you on tubes. I've been a technical person since the late 60's. I understand the appeal of tubes, but I don't like the maintenance aspect. Of course most lower voltage and almost zippo power requirements of preamplifier tubes means there's a very slow degradation over time. What I like about Schitt is the value and quality they provide. I just wish they offered a phono preamp built in. I recognize they would have to charge more, but I trust they would create a great combination in a preamplifier.
I just bought the Freya s and have a Loki and vidars and Freya plus to go with my falcons acoustics gold badge I'm try to pick my dac next ...maybe all schitt or denifrips terminator plus...🤔
I bought this and an ifi zen signature v2 to replace a Marantz AV7705 surround preamp which I was using as a stereo preamp. The Schiit Ifi combo sounds way better. Not even close. This preamp can be used with no problem in a hiend system.
Like the techs at HiFi Buys used to say back in the 90s, "Only unplug the equipment you want to keep" and " What the &#%$* do you think that little plastic box (Surge Protector) is gonna do? Lightning jumps five miles across the sky." This was in the Atlanta Metro area where "Lightning Season" in late Spring and Summer is a real thing.
Let's not forget that the 2 outputs on the Saga (S or plus) are always active, which means one can be used with a power amp and the other one with one or two subwoofers. This is also the case for the Freya (S or plus).
@@rsmeshramesh6914 You should have two sets of RCA outputs on the back, along with the XLR outputs. If you are using the RCA outputs for your amp, use the set next to them for your subs. You should only need one output per sub, one cable to each sub, L/R. If for some reason you need to use both the L/R outputs for one sub, but have two, just pick up two RCA Y cables. You would want two male to one female on the RCA side. You can also use the XLR outputs at the same time too.
recommendations for adding remote and more inputs to my Fosi audio v3? PRE-AMPS RANT: Why is the market for cheap pre-amps so bad? with so few options? You can get an integrated amp/receiver with lots of inputs and volume controls, tone controls etc.... however there a no cheap options for preamps. I want to get into separate instead of getting something like the Yamaha rs202, I have bought the Fosi audio v3, but all I want is more inputs and a remote?! why is the starting point for that functionality a $300 pre-amp like the Saga? When my amp is $70 it seems crazy to spend $300 on a pre-amp that is just adding more inputs and a remote...thx..
You mentioned the Aiyima A07. I have an A07 but was hesitant to get the Saga S because the Aiyima already has volume control on the front. What is process of using two components that both have volume knobs exactly? I like my aiyima A07 but really wanted this Saga for the remote because I do not like getting up in order to cut the volume when needed. Thanks for the video!
As for leaving your audio equipment on....I just fired up my living room stereo that has been off for weeks. It sounded like crap to me until it warmed up. It's all ADCOM. Leave your equipment on.
If CD's are the only medium...what kind of setup would you recommend for a small apartment dweller with $300.00 + to spend (including speakers)...? Last stereo/reciever/ CD player worked fine except the CD player (which was all I used) broke🙄🤔 The one thing that I do like is a good bass. I have respect for your advice... That's why I'm hoping you will cover this question 😁😃😎👍
with $300 your really looking at used as the best route for a full system, look for good deals and piece something together. Time is on your side use it and check thrifty stores also.Craigslist.
@@StrangeBrewReviews Thanks Justin 😎👍 Been out of the home stereo thing for too long. Don't know what's reliable anymore. Any brands you would recommend? And is there a CD player that good speakers and sub woofer can be plugged into...? Thanks😎👍
@@richardlynch5632 really hit and miss in the used markets. Gotta gain some knowledge before shopping and know it when you see it. You could find some decent small shelf all in ones from the 300-500 new range though. 300 is kinda the bottom of that tier.
@@richardlynch5632 depends what your needs are, I'm guessing you have a good amount of CDs already, need some BT connection, some upgradability for add on's. Some good bookshelf size speakers not made of plastic that can reach good bass. Let me look at the zon.
It seems, from your presentation, with or without a Saga S bet. the DAC and AMP does not make a difference. So what is the purpose of adding that component? Thanks.
Hi Randy. Your videos are the best. I just got a schiit saga +. Do you think the tube makes a difference in sound on that thing? I haven’t tried it yet. Will it give a warmer sound? Let me know your thoughts please. Elliot
Ultimately it will depend on the gear you pair with it, including speakers. The warmer the system... But if it is too detailed... I think a tube setup works much better with sensitive speakers, like Zu, some of the Klipsch and other more obscure manufacturers offerings. Just my opinion.
Thanks for your great contact Randy! The Schitt is really about the "separatists" in you. Would it kill them to integrate a phono preamp and a pair of tone control knobs? Even in a slightly more expensive model? Do I really want to pay an extra $300 just for a Loki and a Mani? Rrrr, you have me deciding between this and the Emotiva pre, seems to have more value. Thoughts?
For roughly $200 I would look for a working, and they are out there, vintage Sansui 2000 receiver. It has a killer phono stage, better than the Schiit, Parasound and the other one I own, cannot remember, you would know the name... Also the tone controls, for each speaker, and a sound that is just incredible. Bass that goes so deep, an airy tube like midrange and detailed highs that do not hurt your ears... Something to think about, and at roughly $200 to say $300 a total beast as a dedicated two channel unit. And if you get creative, you can run a streamer or TV through it.
Hey CAM, Just wondering if the Geshelli dac > Schiit Saga S > Emotiva BasX A2 would be a good combo for 2 channel audio on my KLH Kendall floor standers? Considered the Vidar, but Emotiva has more power? Or are there any other amps to consider under $1000. Thanks, Dave
You could use the second set of audio line outs for this, so long as you didn't have plans to use them for anything else (like feed a subwoofer). Tape/Record loops seem to be getting rarer and rarer these days. I love Rotel, but not many of their products offer a simple record out loop.
@@bpalpha True the switched relay volume should be true to source L-R balance. Unlike a 40 year old carbon pot. Would just have to remember not to mess with volume control while recording.
I still don't understand what a preamp would be for. I have a Schiit Modius DAC that lets me change between inputs and they go into my Schiit Magnius that has a good volume control. What does this preamp give me that I don't already have short of a remote control? Plus, I effectively have a remote via a rasberri pi that I have as one of the inputs and I control it from my phone or tablet. Does the preamp have a DAC built in? If not, what is its purpose?
Sounds like you’ve got all you need. But some like to expand their collection of sources. So, with the Saga S, you can have 5 sources: Maybe a Modius DAC, plus another different sounding DAC, plus two or three phono preamps with a different turntable for each one. Then, with some preamps, you can have a separate output to the amplifier feeding your speakers and a separate output to a powered subwoofer. So, it’s all about options.
Randy, a video or some suggestions about a hi-fi set up for desktop PC users would be an idea? I have an FX Audio DAC-X6 and Edifier R1700BT speakers (which, it turns out, you really didn't like - the R1700BTs, I mean)... I'm wanting to buy an amp and decent speakers. Have my eyes on the Dali Spektor 2 speakers and Aiyima A07 amplifier. I have a tube pre-amp (which I got cheap) but it's probably redundant till I buy an amplifier and passive speakers. I'm new to all this (know more about watches, haha, and yes, I'm following The Cheap Watch Man too).
" if you want to get into separates... Separate amps... Separate checkbooks".. you gonna need separate checkbooks so the wife don't find out about these Hifi purchases, LOL.
newbie question: if you put a preamp like this before an integrated amp, and turn the volume of the integrated up to a certain point, and then feed it a lower signal from the preamp. Doesn't that degrade the sound quality? It just intuitively feels that way to me.
your integrated amplifier should have both a volume control and multiple inputs (power amps just have input jacks and speaker cable connectors, few/no controls), so I'm curious why you would choose to add this device to your system? one possible benefit of the Saga preamp to an integrated would be to increase the number of inputs to select from -- if I were to do this, I would set the Saga volume to Max and choose the "passive" setting; this would pretty much make it a source selector and leave volume control to your integrated amp (I think Schiit makes this suggestion in the FAQ section of their cheaper 2-input Sys passive preamp) another possible benefit would be to take advantage of the remote control for volume (if the integrated does not have one) -- in this case I would set the integrated amplifier volume knob to the highest comfortable level and then adjust the Saga accordingly. to answer your question, yes, it is possible that having two volume controllers in the signal path could degrade the sound quality
@cheapaudioman I've got a BasX A1 Monoblock question. You mentioned it here as a suggestion for piecing a component system. Could you buy one at a time and run one on the left while running an AVR for the right side until you can get the second mono block maybe three or four months later? The reason I ask this is not exactly why you may think; I have a habit of buying something and leaving it in the unopened in the box until I need it. The older I get, the dumber that idea gets, because you could have a warranty issue and not even know it. Any thoughts?
It could work if equipment is compatible but would sound insane I think. The gain would be different unless you could adjust it and I'm sure they would have a totally different sound on left and right. I know there are other more techy reasons why it's not optimal, but I'm no engineer so I'll just give my opinion. May allow you to play decent sounding music but I doubt it would sound "good". I'd buy the one amp, keep it in the box till you can afford the match. Good luck in your hunt. 😁👍
@@ericnortan9012 LOL that was months ago when I knew nothing at all. I still know nothing, but I don't know nothing at all anymore LOL. I've got a plan.
Thanks for your vids wich i always watch with great pleasure. I don't succeed for the moment to go through "separate" chain cause i didn't yet found a preamp that is cheap, have a good electronics and a subwoofer out. There 's only the Pro-ject Pre Box DS2 at 550€ but not in stock and poorly distributed in Europe and after we jump immediatly on the Atoll PR200 at 950€. The Schitt Saga S didn't exist anymore and the Schitt Saga 2 have no sub out... In front of a Marantz PM6007 that have all the staff in for 590€ there's always a step forward in terms of price for the separate chain optio... still watching you waiting for a good affordable preamp with sub out totake the plunge! Thanks a lot keep going on. ;-)
If your external power amp has balanced inputs you can then connect to the Saga 2 and then connect your subwoofer to the RCA output on the Saga 2. If your amp and subwoofer only use RCA then yeah the Saga 2 won’t work in your case.
@@PioneerDoom7114 Thanks for answering. ok I believed that we have to choose only one output but indeed it solve the problems. Whatever I'm trying my luck with the Wiim Ultra, good compromise to taste the separate thing at a tight price. All the best. 🙂
@@guitaregeek8794 yeah now the WiiM Ultra will give you what you need since it’s a preamp, DAC, Streamer, Phono stage and Subwoofer Output all RCA connections
PS Audio Gaincell DAC/Preamp, can be found used for between $500 and $800 on the internet. The DAC in this thing is very nice, as is the analog preamp. I do not know what they did when the designed this thing, but they knocked it out of the park.
An EQ does help, I have a couple in the house. If you are streaming, or want to stream, pick up A WiiM mini or Pro, they have a built in EQ and really do not sound that bad with their internal DAC. The EQ in the WiiM products put them in league with much more expensive streamers.
It’s really disappointing that some “premium” preamps and amps have no balance controls. My NAD M10 didn’t have one, but they actually released new firmware that included it. Remarkable. Defeatable tone and balance controls should be offered even on headphone amps IMO
your description of a preamp isn't really correct. Most preamps, including this one, have an amplification stage in addition to the control functions. While you don't like tubes, the tube version offers the option of changing to sound of the thing by using different tubes. If amplification isn't required one can buy a cheaper product from Schiit. That's called Sys, and it's $49.
If your amplifier/DAC doesn't have a volume control, a preamp can help. If that's all you need, Schiit makes a passive preamp that serves just that purpose for around $50.
Some also like multiple input devices to switch between. Sounds like you’re content with just one input device and, if it has a volume control and sufficient drive for your amp of choice, then you are all set without a preamp.
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caffeinated coffee poured on the scalp makes your hair grow thick.
This truly is the best way to build an amazing audio system. It's exactly how I started! I built my systems around 2 preamplifiers that I've owned since the 90's. Swapping out pieces along the way. Schitt has made this process much easier!!!
Agreed Gino, start your HiFi build with a simple quality preamp. It's the way to go for a bunch of reasons. 🔈🔉🔊
I have a pioneer receiver. Can i use it as a power amp and hook it to this pre amp?
@@dakudakota8502 Only if your reciever has pre-amp input connections. Check the back panel as they should be labeled. Not all recievers have them, but some do. Good luck! I hope your unit has pre-amp inputs!
@@ginom407 thank you for replying. Yes my receiver has pre outs.
And do you think Saga S would be a good fit for my speakers? I have triangle borea br08 floor standing speakers.
Or should i go with freya? Is there any difference between these two?
Great Count von Count impression Randy. Thanks for bring us this good Schiit.
I spit my pre-thanksgiving drink when I heard the "checking account" joke.
Just run into your content recently. Enjoying it very much. 🍻
As someone who is very new to all this and yet who has seen/heard the term preamp for decades but just didn’t understand what the heck its job is or how it differs from an integrated amp, I really appreciate this adventure. Thanks!!
It has no power section. You need an external amp unlike an integrated which has power included
You can't switch between outputs. Despite having relays they are ganged. The remote only controls the input selection and the passive/buffer choice. One note by putting a Lokius on the output you can drive two Schiit monoblocks using the XLR outputs.
I purchased a used Saga pre-amp (with tube) to add remote control to my 1974 Pioneer SX727 integrated receiver with circa 1984 Polk Audio SDA CRS SPEAKERS. (Bought the Pioneer and Polks new.) This receiver has plugs to allow the pre-amp to be disconnected from the amp section. I plugged the output from the Saga to the “amp in” on the Pioneer which bypasses the volume, balance and tone controls and goes straight into the amp. My Modi DAC and ifi turntable pre-amp plug into the Saga which now handles remote volume control and source selection. Works like a charm. Best money I’ve spent on HiFi recently. BTW - I don’t notice any difference between the “passive” and “tube” modes on the Saga using 2 sets of tubes so the non-tube version would be my recommendation.
I’ve been a happy user of the saga tube version for 5 years, hard to beat
Finally and actual sponsor ...LOL love it...
Congratulations on 120K!
You'll surpass that many times over, I'm sure!
Great review! I ordered one yesterday. Kudos to Schiit for not turning into a software company. Old school separates and tying them up with a string of RCA cables is where the real fun is!
The switched relays for the volume keep both channels at the same level, as nearly all potentiometers will produce an offset between channels. i.e. the exact same volume will come from both L & R outputs using the relays.
Well said. A good attenuator will do the same, but relays are easier/cheaper to implement with a remote.
int amp = power amp + pre amp (generally for 2-channels/stereo)
receiver = power amp + pre amp + radio tuner
I like your use of math stuff for non math related stuff.
@@cheapaudioman I love how he does math backwards. Make it look like algebra or somthing.
So much quality for people getting started these days😊
They finally made what I've been wanting them to make.
...and also matches gain structure and impedance. If you have single ended Saga is a great option!
Agree on seperates and "the hunt"
Thanks a lot Cheapaudioman!!! You gave a great idea to deal with a problem I had with my preamp and my amp to get the ideal volume with low sensitive speakers.
Great info and review of this equipment. I really liked the Keeps hair-loss program too. Now you just need to tell me your beard and moustache grooming secrets. You are always so well groomed I get distracted from the products. Keep up the great news and thank you as always for your time and efforts to educate us all.
lmao. I often look like someone leaving on the streets.
@@cheapaudioman I very much doubt that , Sir.
I still have the first integrated amplifier I ever purchased, in fact, it is the only one purchased. A Denon PMA 300V, it was ample in high school, then life happened for a while....and then, in 1998, one experienced with car audio competitions, spoke of an amplifier just released, a Zapco AG 650...I had already purchased 2 Rockford punch 15's from him, and JL Audio 6.5 inch component set for the front doors...whatever was in the rear did handled rear fill, and yes, you did mention that it was 300, that Denon I bought was ...wait...I remember selling that Denon...and the search for the owner's manual.....but I found it here a few weeks ago behind a chair....I may be in a universe I'm not native to....hmmm.....if I find myself somewhere else tomorrow, thanks for your work here, it is, in my opinion, pretty freakin awesome, the subtle humor, nicely spiced...I may be right, or I may be crazy....off to bed I go, either way.
I'm a beginner-ish as far as owning... and that's a big knob. I like knobs, especially non eternal spinning knobs.
I am seriously considering a full Schiit stack with two Vidar, a Modius and a Freya Plus as my end-game setup.
I did an extensive amount of research on the Saga S, before purchasing. My use of it is part of my endgame system. You are honestly getting the best bang for your buck as far as preamps go. From what I have gathered it is just as good as the Freya, the only disadvantage would be having half as many volume step points (64 VS 128). If you require balanced architecture, you need to go with the Freya.
Now that I have the Freya, I'll eat my words a bit here. Saga S has been fantastic, but the Freya is a major step forward. The tube stage can compete with my gear that costs considerably more money.
That is why I got freya.
To your last point re: balanced architecture: not necessarily, you can go with the Kara, which is a solid state preamp (like the Saga S) but also has balanced inputs/outputs.
@Nacho625 this was written well before the Kara existed. I now use the Freya +/N and couldn't be happier. 😁
Mr. Randy, I cannot imagine just how great the system you described here is.
All the very best to you and yours.
Oh - have your had time to watch Thirteen Lives yet? Great film.
I really like going through your old videos😊😅😅
Thanks for the very timely review! I just bought a pair of ACA kits to use as mono blocks and just realized that they don't have volume controls, duh. My other amp is class A tube, and as you noted is typical for the species, it has a volume control My only input is my DAC, so my system had no preamp, and now I need one. The Schiit Saga S seems like the perfect solution, high quality and cheap. Just what I have come to expect from The Cheap Audio Man. By the way, the Saga is zero gain in both passive and active mode. The active mode is a buffer according the the Schiit spec sheet.
If you were using amp camp amps as balanced monoblocks then you need to use XLR cables. If you are using the amp camp as parallel mono then you can use RCAs. this preamp does not have XLR out so you'd have to use adapters etc for the balanced mono. It is worth trying both monoblock configurations to see what sounds best with your speakers.
@@chelillingworth9466 True, but then I would have needed a Freya S preamp to stay in the Schiit, couldn't resist :). I can run the ACA's single ended either parallel mono or bridged mono (balanced mono might be bridged?), which is good enough for me, because I'm apparently not a very discerning listener (comparing myself to reviewers like Randy), so I doubt I would be able to distinguish between balanced mono and single-ended bridged mono. And I was able to put the $200 I saved by going with the Saga towards a Lokius equalizer, which I definitely will be able to hear the effects of.
With regards to balanced vs single ended, my understanding of balanced circuits is that they designed to reject noise, and offer no other benefit. Therefore, if the signal is reasonable strong (specifically supplied with sufficient current, which the Saga S definitely can deliver in active mode), the cable short, and the environment not especially electrically noisy, a single ended circuit should not pick up enough noise that it will become audible. If that is indeed the case then the balanced and single ended signals will produce the same sound, all other things being equal. I don't mean to imply that the ACA running balanced mono doesn't have a unique sound signature. It may. I haven't studied the circuits enough to determine the wiring differences between balanced mono, bridged mono. and parallel mono. I speculate that balanced mono will prove to be bridged rather than parallel.
@@stevefoster6047 it has more to do with impedance matching your speakers. Bridged for above 8 ohms, parallel for 4 ohms. Parallel is brighter and cleaner, parallel can be fuller with better bass.
Most important thing is to get a preamp with lots of gain, because the ACA especially in stereo or parallel mono modes is quite low gain, the Saga will do this job very well!!!
@@chelillingworth9466 Thanks! that's great information. I think the ACAs will have plenty of power for me, stereo, parallel, or bridged. My speakers are very efficient and can perform well with just a sip of power. My current tube amp puts out a whopping 1.5W before clipping noticeably, and that gets me to a higher SPL than I care to listen. Now I'm really looking forward to what I hear with the ACAs, Thanks.
@@chelillingworth9466 Hi Chet, just wanted to thank you again for your very useful comments. I just finished my ACA's yesterday, and I figured out a way to drive them using XLR for balanced mono. They sound amazing! I was motivated by this comment that appears on the ACA V1.6 operating modes doc: "Balanced input ... removes hum that is common to both +/- inputs, and removes most of the dominant second harmonic distortion of the amplifier itself by cancellation." Sweet, definitely makes XLR input worth the effort! Turns out my Schiit Lokius offers balanced and single-ended I/O, but it equalizes single-ended and so turns that into true XLR on the XLR output, So not just a very nice 6-band equalizer, but also an active XLR converter(all for $299). Schiit's FAQ on the Lokius noted this: "Can I use both balanced and single-ended outputs at the same time? Yes. They are completely independent. Connecting to one does not influence the other." So the XLR out is driving my ACA balanced monoblocks and the SI out is driving my SI tube amp.
It would be interesting to compare a SagaS, Vidar, J2 combination against some highly rated integrateds in the $1300 price range.
I second that. I got a Schitt Mani blew me away, not for the price, it litterally is that good. Got a J2 an Love it. Schitt is def always on my radar for gear now.
Great video! I'm a new audio enthusiast and just built my first system thanks to Randy's amazing posts. I literally have the set-up Randy is talking about mid video (Schiit Modi 3 / Mani > Saga S > Aiyima A07> Wharfdale Diamond 12.2s). Just set it up this week and am loving the sound. I just ordered the Sparkos Dual Discrete Op Amp chips to put in my Aiyima A07 and can't wait to hear the difference. Already have upgrade fever. What do you think the weakest link in the system is that should be upgraded first?
If you just set everything up, you don't know enough about your system to upgrade. Is there some type of problem that makes you want to make changes? I would say listen to what you have and get used to it. As far as upgrades go, you're the one who has to recognize there's something in the system you don't like.
Here's one piece of advice that may help you out. Your preamp has both an active and passive mode. Its very important that you listen to it both ways, and become very familiar with differences in sound. More than anything else, that will help you as you move forward.
@@AT-wl9yq Thanks for the advice. There is absolutely no need to change anything, outside of the fact that there are so many bright shiny objects I want to try out! That being said I think you're right. I should be getting used to the system, letting it break in, and spending my hard earned cash on some much needed vinyl.
Thank you Dear Randy for this wonderful review.
I have one for 4 years now. It works well and so far no hair loss.
Really? Well I guess I’ll have to get a Schitt Saga S too.
Too obvious? If your old pre-amp has you pulling your hair out.. get the Saga-S and Keeps!😂
I dig the Topping Pre90. Found an open-box model for $419 shipped. Really detailed and clean sounding!
I am thinking to buy it, how does it play?
Probably already bragged on one of your other videos, can't remember, I'm pretty excited. Just bought a Schiit Freya+ (Noval) with tubes on clearance for $599. Budget? Maybe for some, but for me high end. I wanted to add tubes without going "full tube" Freya seems like a perfect device for that.
Hopefully it shows up quickly 🙏 😬.
You tha man! We really love your entertaining yet very informative takes on equipment.
Well, what do you think? I was looking at pulling the trigger on one, they are still available as of the other day.
@@michaelwright1602 I really like it. The passive stage is crystal clear, great if I just want to hear my DAC, or the source straight, the tube stage really bumps the gain and definitely softens the sound a bit. I have enjoyed it so far, I haven't tried any other tubes yet. The active stage is really no different from the passive, but is nice for upping a single ended signal to balanced. No complaints but if you already have quality equipment I wouldn't expect a dramatic change in sound. Just a quality, functional preamp with a slight softening of the edges with the tubes (and a huge bump in gain). If you are looking for a preamp I would recommend it. If you are looking for a total, full tube type sound you may want to go with something else, like a tube amp. But again, I really like it, great price, US built, no complaints.
@@ericnortan9012 Thank you for letting me know. I have the Schiit Freya, the original, and the Freya S. I have the original tube Freya boxed up, but am going to break it out this weekend to give it another spin. The Freya S is very nice, sounds good in my system using the Ares II DAC.
@@michaelwright1602 nice. I got the N specifically to give tubes a whirl. So far I am intrigued. I have heard tubes before but never owned anything so it is kind of new to me.
Got back into 2 channel listening. Reconditioned my 1978 stereo. If I were to buy new, my plan was Schitt Ageir x2, Fria, DAC etc. Everything just went up $100. So, plus $500 plus the $3000. Probably not going to happen now
It's always interesting when you see a video in your UA-cam history and the title has changed since you watched it. ☺️
ha. titles and thumbnails actually make or break a video. So I will change things up if they aren't performing well.
My dac has volume, tone, EQ, filters. Still very clinical, which is great sometimes but I believe a tube preamp will add a little more musicality when I want it.
Try an R2R DAC. A good entry level one is the RU6 dongle DAC. I hooked up mine to my 2 channel rig, and it sounded darn near identical to my $860 Ares II R2R DAC. It honestly surprised the heck out of me in regards to the sound, and the bass boost, if you like bass.
@@michaelwright1602 Mine is an RME ADI-2 fs. I really like it, and like the sound, very revealing. The thing is, it is almost too good, the bad recordings really get exposed, all the details good and bad can be heard. The DSP is good though, it has a parametric EQ built in the digital stage so it helps cutting the nastiness out of some of my music choices.
@@ericnortan9012 That is what my experience was like too with other chip DACs I have owned, too clinical and revealing. I purchased the Ares II out of desperation, I could not listen to much of anything without getting severe ear fatigue, and an occasional headache. The R2R solved that issue, that digital signature is now gone, very very analog sounding, like a good vinyl record. That is why I suggested the RU6 at only $250, it sounds as good as that Ares II for a fraction of the cost. I think it would pair up nicely with your new Freya.
@@michaelwright1602 thanks. I have heard they are nice.
Great review! Now I am curious….Can you also do a formal review of the Freya S?
the freya s now lives in a new home.
Thanks Randy for the reply! Based upon your memory, did the balanced input and active gain stage have any effects on sound? Dynamics? Soundstage?
@@derekf7772 I don’t remember it being really one way or the other. Amps speakers and source had more impact. This is very clean sounding
I've always had separate checking Accounts. It's been my saviour. 🤣🤣
schiit is taking over my system i cant stop it ,i need a saga and another mani2 for my front room system ..
I have the Saga S and I love it. I do, however, want to upgrade to the Freya. My DAC and Amp have balanced connections, but I use unbalanced because of the Saga S. I'm wondering if I should go with the Tube version or another "S" version.
I do have the Freya+ but frankly if I were you I would save $400 and just get the Freya S. It is even a better bargain than the Saga; the tubes add problems with microphonics plus they are getting to be scarce and they tend to distort after awhile. The Tung Sol variety come from Russia...
If it had tone controls, it'd be perfect
Yeaaa exactly what I was looking for ... daisy the DACs ! Bought it. Used link below ! thks.
I'm still scratching my head about balanced versus unbalanced. I have a dbx 215s in my chain and if I plug it into an unbalanced amp, I get a schiit ton of hiss. If I use the balanced out into my Peachtree amp500 (only power amp) I get VERY minimal hiss. I'm going to try the schiit eq. I know, I know, most people would immediately view an EQ as a joke, but audio is the most subjective science I've ever known. 😁
EQ is great and don't let anyone tell you different. If you like it you're doing it right.
I have the Schiit Lokius, and two CD players, both Denon. One is old, one is new. The 2006 era DVD/SACD player into the Lokius is great, even in bypass it seems to bump up the input gain. But, the new Denon A110 SACD player ends up with an audible "pop" when I open the drawer or turn it off. I just plug it straight into the Jotunheim 2.
Can't explain my situation, nor yours. Sometimes it's a synergy, or lack there of.
There's 2 things you need to know. Is the hiss due to too much gain, or is it due to mixing balanced and single ended components? Before you fix anything you have to know what's causing the problem.
Balanced and single ended operation are not compatible. In order for balancing to work, both components need to be balanced, along with the cable you are using to connect them. If everything isn't just right, the signal isn't balanced, and what you are listening to is exactly the same as using an rca cable. Before I go on, balanced operation is not a clean subject for discussion. There's different ways a component can be balanced, and there are different options as to how things are wired. Given that, there are cases where you can get different results doing the same thing. Reading your description of the type of sound you are getting (a hiss), that tells me you probably have a gain issue. If the noise is from mixing balanced and single ended components, the typical noise you get is a loud, annoying hum. Its sounds like you are doing damage and your first instinct is to shut everything off. Unless you say otherwise, I'm not getting that from your post.
If your issue is due to excessive gain, it shouldn't be too difficult to locate the problem. The first thing I would encourage you to do, is not use balanced connections. I know we just talked about it, but if your balanced connection is working properly, you will have a 4-6db increase in output gain just because the signal is balanced. As long as you don't have excessively long cable runs, you won't notice a sound quality difference. For that, you need to have fully differential components.
Since you are mixing pro gear with home gear, one thing to be aware of is pro gear typically has more volume and gain controls than home gear. To get rid of a gain related hiss or noise, you have to properly set your gain structure. Volume controls are different than gain controls. Gain controls are on the input of a component, and they have the potential to distort the signal if too much gain is applied. Volume controls are on the output of a component and can't distort the signal. Starting with your source component(s) to your amp, you need to determine if your "volume controls" are really volume controls or gain controls. This info would be in the owner's manual. Once you have that sorted out, you'll need to lower your gain controls until the hiss goes away. Then you adjust how loud you want things to be with an actual volume control. If it turns out you don't have enough adjustment to get rid of the hiss, you can use Rothwell attenuators, or something equivalent.
@@AT-wl9yq Thank you for sharing your knowledge on this! I will try this out. I was just changing the output to unbalanced from the EQ to the amp, but the output from the DAC to the EQ was still Balanced. I will move them both to unbalanced and see. I have an ADI-2 PRO FS R DAC/Pre-amp -> dbx 215s -> Peachtree. I will re-wire this stuff and let you know! Thank you!
So it seems the "hiss" is coming from the dbx 215s unbalanced connections. I've tried using unbalanced all the way through and still the same issue. Even a hiss with the DAC/pre-amp turned off. If I bypass the EQ with unbalanced, the hiss is gone. If I use the balanced inputs/outputs and turn off the bypass on the dbx, the hiss is not present either. In this config, I'm using a Quad Vena II as the amp and all unbalanced from the ADI-2 PRO to the 215s to the Vena II.
Any Lokius review in the pipeline? Would love to hear your thoughts on that, Randy. Great content as always, muchacho.
I did one a while back. it included the crown amplifier
I just ordered a nobsound tube pre-amp for $300 and I have my fingers crossed. I also (getting ahead of myself) ordered 4 genalex gold lion tubes and a power chord from emotiva which all together double the price of the pre-amp. Anyway wish me some luck because I never seem to get my fair share of it.
Good luck man, hope it works out. Come back here and share your thoughts...I'm always interested on how things like this work out. Run the stock tubes for a little bit first...so you can better compare vs the upgraded ones. And again, good luck..I'm rooting for ya
@@NosEL34 Thanks...I'm getting it friday and I''ll let you know
I went exactly route with same tubes. Tried JJ tubes, mullard tubes, and a few others. I was able to directly compare to several other pieces. I can tell you it wasn't the answer for me and was a bit of a let down when directly comparing to cheaper tube pre amps. If this is your route, I would save and get a freya +. I'm holding off buying a decent pre and buying a mini dsp next.
I wish the Willsenton r8 had a pre amp out. 😥
I love my Schiit preamp/headphone amp. BEGINNERS!?! I'm not a beginner. I'm a tradesman family man.
Yeah ... movin' all down to Texas!
I've had mine for a few days now. It basically sounds like nothing, which in my book is high praise for a pre. Very transparent. I can hear low level detail, that I missed with my very good 3X the price Mapletree tube pre. As with all products from this company, the case work is solid and beautifully made. Remember, though, this pre provides no gain, it is really a buffered attenuator. Didn't need the Plus version, as I already have a tube buffer from Decware. Schiit is proving to be the real bang for the buck champ.
Last night I pulled out the Declare tube buffer. System sounds better w/ Saga alone w/ JFET buffer, plus eliminates more connections and a pair of IC's. The Saga S is very impressive.
Hey Joseph, if I’m not interested in balanced is there any other reason to go with a Freya S (Kara now since stopped production of Freya s)?
I love the Count! Ha ha ha.
There are 1000 ways to buld a system, I find great "value" in the intergrated amps. Such is the case with the Arcam SA10 for $699 but to each his own
I don't like the switch on the back. Heat destroys capacitors, so I turn off my Schiit gear when not in use, which makes it a bit complicated.
I don't know why people bother fussing around with electronics when objective measurements show that solid state are all within +/- 0.5 dB across the audible frequency range and blind tests show that people can't tell one amp/preamp from another.
I'm with you on tubes. I've been a technical person since the late 60's. I understand the appeal of tubes, but I don't like the maintenance aspect. Of course most lower voltage and almost zippo power requirements of preamplifier tubes means there's a very slow degradation over time.
What I like about Schitt is the value and quality they provide. I just wish they offered a phono preamp built in. I recognize they would have to charge more, but I trust they would create a great combination in a preamplifier.
I just bought the Freya s and have a Loki and vidars and Freya plus to go with my falcons acoustics gold badge I'm try to pick my dac next ...maybe all schitt or denifrips terminator plus...🤔
This will be my bedroom system 😏
I bought this and an ifi zen signature v2 to replace a Marantz AV7705 surround preamp which I was using as a stereo preamp. The Schiit Ifi combo sounds way better. Not even close. This preamp can be used with no problem in a hiend system.
It's about time for some sanity on UA-cam thanks bro
Audio bada$$ rule: never turn your stuff off.
All stuff on all of the time!
Like the techs at HiFi Buys used to say back in the 90s, "Only unplug the equipment you want to keep" and " What the &#%$* do you think that little plastic box (Surge Protector) is gonna do? Lightning jumps five miles across the sky." This was in the Atlanta Metro area where "Lightning Season" in late Spring and Summer is a real thing.
Let's not forget that the 2 outputs on the Saga (S or plus) are always active, which means one can be used with a power amp and the other one with one or two subwoofers. This is also the case for the Freya (S or plus).
I have the Freya S, and really like it, it really sounds incredible for the price point. I bought mine used, so saved $200, a very good purchase.
Hi am curious to know how I can use my subs to my preamp. I have a Freya +. I also use a power amp.
@@rsmeshramesh6914 You should have two sets of RCA outputs on the back, along with the XLR outputs. If you are using the RCA outputs for your amp, use the set next to them for your subs. You should only need one output per sub, one cable to each sub, L/R. If for some reason you need to use both the L/R outputs for one sub, but have two, just pick up two RCA Y cables. You would want two male to one female on the RCA side. You can also use the XLR outputs at the same time too.
recommendations for adding remote and more inputs to my Fosi audio v3? PRE-AMPS RANT: Why is the market for cheap pre-amps so bad? with so few options? You can get an integrated amp/receiver with lots of inputs and volume controls, tone controls etc.... however there a no cheap options for preamps. I want to get into separate instead of getting something like the Yamaha rs202, I have bought the Fosi audio v3, but all I want is more inputs and a remote?! why is the starting point for that functionality a $300 pre-amp like the Saga? When my amp is $70 it seems crazy to spend $300 on a pre-amp that is just adding more inputs and a remote...thx..
You mentioned the Aiyima A07. I have an A07 but was hesitant to get the Saga S because the Aiyima already has volume control on the front. What is process of using two components that both have volume knobs exactly? I like my aiyima A07 but really wanted this Saga for the remote because I do not like getting up in order to cut the volume when needed. Thanks for the video!
As for leaving your audio equipment on....I just fired up my living room stereo that has been off for weeks. It sounded like crap to me until it warmed up. It's all ADCOM. Leave your equipment on.
I love that brand lol. Yeah I was unaware of this leaving stuff on til recently
Can you please tell me how do you connect a and b amplifier and switch in between😊
+1 for working in "eight track" into a video! 😝
If you live on a shipping container that magnetic remote would be sweet. Or you could store it in the kitchen on the fridge.
If CD's are the only medium...what kind of setup would you recommend for a small apartment dweller with $300.00 + to spend (including speakers)...?
Last stereo/reciever/ CD player worked fine except the CD player (which was all I used) broke🙄🤔
The one thing that I do like is a good bass.
I have respect for your advice...
That's why I'm hoping you will cover this question 😁😃😎👍
with $300 your really looking at used as the best route for a full system, look for good deals and piece something together. Time is on your side use it and check thrifty stores also.Craigslist.
@@StrangeBrewReviews
Thanks Justin 😎👍
Been out of the home stereo thing for too long. Don't know what's reliable anymore.
Any brands you would recommend?
And is there a CD player that good speakers and sub woofer can be plugged into...?
Thanks😎👍
@@richardlynch5632 really hit and miss in the used markets. Gotta gain some knowledge before shopping and know it when you see it. You could find some decent small shelf all in ones from the 300-500 new range though. 300 is kinda the bottom of that tier.
@@StrangeBrewReviews
Gaining knowledge is why I'm here😎👍
If $300.00 isn't realistic...what is?
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@@richardlynch5632 depends what your needs are, I'm guessing you have a good amount of CDs already, need some BT connection, some upgradability for add on's. Some good bookshelf size speakers not made of plastic that can reach good bass. Let me look at the zon.
I love Schiit. They are not built the best, but perform great.
Randy, I am planning to add saga s in front of ares2. did you try it as such? any thoughts?
Fantastic combo
Thanks Randy
It seems, from your presentation, with or without a Saga S bet. the DAC and AMP does not make a difference. So what is the purpose of adding that component? Thanks.
Hi Randy. Your videos are the best. I just got a schiit saga +. Do you think the tube makes a difference in sound on that thing? I haven’t tried it yet. Will it give a warmer sound? Let me know your thoughts please.
Elliot
Ultimately it will depend on the gear you pair with it, including speakers. The warmer the system... But if it is too detailed... I think a tube setup works much better with sensitive speakers, like Zu, some of the Klipsch and other more obscure manufacturers offerings. Just my opinion.
Thanks for your great contact Randy! The Schitt is really about the "separatists" in you. Would it kill them to integrate a phono preamp and a pair of tone control knobs? Even in a slightly more expensive model? Do I really want to pay an extra $300 just for a Loki and a Mani? Rrrr, you have me deciding between this and the Emotiva pre, seems to have more value. Thoughts?
For roughly $200 I would look for a working, and they are out there, vintage Sansui 2000 receiver. It has a killer phono stage, better than the Schiit, Parasound and the other one I own, cannot remember, you would know the name... Also the tone controls, for each speaker, and a sound that is just incredible. Bass that goes so deep, an airy tube like midrange and detailed highs that do not hurt your ears... Something to think about, and at roughly $200 to say $300 a total beast as a dedicated two channel unit. And if you get creative, you can run a streamer or TV through it.
I'm still trying to find a hair dr , still haven't found one
Hey CAM, Just wondering if the Geshelli dac > Schiit Saga S > Emotiva BasX A2 would be a good combo for 2 channel audio on my KLH Kendall floor standers? Considered the Vidar, but Emotiva has more power? Or are there any other amps to consider under $1000. Thanks, Dave
A fixed level tape loop would be great. Don't see any drawbacks of them adding this. Other than a price increase
You could use the second set of audio line outs for this, so long as you didn't have plans to use them for anything else (like feed a subwoofer). Tape/Record loops seem to be getting rarer and rarer these days. I love Rotel, but not many of their products offer a simple record out loop.
@@bpalpha True the switched relay volume should be true to source L-R balance. Unlike a 40 year old carbon pot. Would just have to remember not to mess with volume control while recording.
I still don't understand what a preamp would be for. I have a Schiit Modius DAC that lets me change between inputs and they go into my Schiit Magnius that has a good volume control. What does this preamp give me that I don't already have short of a remote control? Plus, I effectively have a remote via a rasberri pi that I have as one of the inputs and I control it from my phone or tablet. Does the preamp have a DAC built in? If not, what is its purpose?
Sounds like you’ve got all you need. But some like to expand their collection of sources. So, with the Saga S, you can have 5 sources: Maybe a Modius DAC, plus another different sounding DAC, plus two or three phono preamps with a different turntable for each one. Then, with some preamps, you can have a separate output to the amplifier feeding your speakers and a separate output to a powered subwoofer. So, it’s all about options.
You're fine as u are, mate.
Any chance of reviewing the GJALLARHORN soon?
Randy, a video or some suggestions about a hi-fi set up for desktop PC users would be an idea? I have an FX Audio DAC-X6 and Edifier R1700BT speakers (which, it turns out, you really didn't like - the R1700BTs, I mean)...
I'm wanting to buy an amp and decent speakers. Have my eyes on the Dali Spektor 2 speakers and Aiyima A07 amplifier.
I have a tube pre-amp (which I got cheap) but it's probably redundant till I buy an amplifier and passive speakers.
I'm new to all this (know more about watches, haha, and yes, I'm following The Cheap Watch Man too).
...I ended up buying an Aiyima A08 PRO (let's hope I don't regret buying it without any reviews out there atm!).
Speakers, not decided yet :)
" if you want to get into separates... Separate amps... Separate checkbooks".. you gonna need separate checkbooks so the wife don't find out about these Hifi purchases, LOL.
newbie question:
if you put a preamp like this before an integrated amp, and turn the volume of the integrated up to a certain point, and then feed it a lower signal from the preamp.
Doesn't that degrade the sound quality? It just intuitively feels that way to me.
your integrated amplifier should have both a volume control and multiple inputs (power amps just have input jacks and speaker cable connectors, few/no controls), so I'm curious why you would choose to add this device to your system?
one possible benefit of the Saga preamp to an integrated would be to increase the number of inputs to select from -- if I were to do this, I would set the Saga volume to Max and choose the "passive" setting; this would pretty much make it a source selector and leave volume control to your integrated amp (I think Schiit makes this suggestion in the FAQ section of their cheaper 2-input Sys passive preamp)
another possible benefit would be to take advantage of the remote control for volume (if the integrated does not have one) -- in this case I would set the integrated amplifier volume knob to the highest comfortable level and then adjust the Saga accordingly.
to answer your question, yes, it is possible that having two volume controllers in the signal path could degrade the sound quality
@@beekeo Yeah question was mainly hypothetical, like if you end up in such a situation or audition stuff, or want to A/B stuff.
Thanks for clarifying!
@cheapaudioman I've got a BasX A1 Monoblock question. You mentioned it here as a suggestion for piecing a component system. Could you buy one at a time and run one on the left while running an AVR for the right side until you can get the second mono block maybe three or four months later? The reason I ask this is not exactly why you may think; I have a habit of buying something and leaving it in the unopened in the box until I need it. The older I get, the dumber that idea gets, because you could have a warranty issue and not even know it. Any thoughts?
It could work if equipment is compatible but would sound insane I think. The gain would be different unless you could adjust it and I'm sure they would have a totally different sound on left and right. I know there are other more techy reasons why it's not optimal, but I'm no engineer so I'll just give my opinion. May allow you to play decent sounding music but I doubt it would sound "good". I'd buy the one amp, keep it in the box till you can afford the match. Good luck in your hunt.
😁👍
@@ericnortan9012 LOL that was months ago when I knew nothing at all. I still know nothing, but I don't know nothing at all anymore LOL. I've got a plan.
Thanks for your vids wich i always watch with great pleasure. I don't succeed for the moment to go through "separate" chain cause i didn't yet found a preamp that is cheap, have a good electronics and a subwoofer out. There 's only the Pro-ject Pre Box DS2 at 550€ but not in stock and poorly distributed in Europe and after we jump immediatly on the Atoll PR200 at 950€. The Schitt Saga S didn't exist anymore and the Schitt Saga 2 have no sub out... In front of a Marantz PM6007 that have all the staff in for 590€ there's always a step forward in terms of price for the separate chain optio... still watching you waiting for a good affordable preamp with sub out totake the plunge! Thanks a lot keep going on. ;-)
If your external power amp has balanced inputs you can then connect to the Saga 2 and then connect your subwoofer to the RCA output on the Saga 2. If your amp and subwoofer only use RCA then yeah the Saga 2 won’t work in your case.
@@PioneerDoom7114 Thanks for answering. ok I believed that we have to choose only one output but indeed it solve the problems. Whatever I'm trying my luck with the Wiim Ultra, good compromise to taste the separate thing at a tight price. All the best. 🙂
@@guitaregeek8794 yeah now the WiiM Ultra will give you what you need since it’s a preamp, DAC, Streamer, Phono stage and Subwoofer Output all RCA connections
I am getting seperats,I would like your opinion on preamp, emotiva or schit
At least it has 2 outputs
Randy… will the magnetic remote stick to the plate in my head?
mine it titanium. yours may be stick
@@cheapaudioman … sure, your have a fancy plate. I guess that is why you can’t call yourself the cheap-craniotomy-man.
You kids and your titanium implants. In my day all we had was bronze and we liked it that way!
I wanted to add remote to my old equipment and pull all my sources together through one central unit..
PS Audio Gaincell DAC/Preamp, can be found used for between $500 and $800 on the internet. The DAC in this thing is very nice, as is the analog preamp. I do not know what they did when the designed this thing, but they knocked it out of the park.
This vs Freya S? Which so you recommend?
Wouldn't you need a equalizer with this or don't you need tone controls?
An EQ does help, I have a couple in the house. If you are streaming, or want to stream, pick up A WiiM mini or Pro, they have a built in EQ and really do not sound that bad with their internal DAC. The EQ in the WiiM products put them in league with much more expensive streamers.
What's a good dac/streamer/eq that has a balanced output such as XLR or quarter inch TRS
What's so wrong with manufacturing in California? Spread the love man.
The question is: a Saga with or without tube?
Yes
Can u run both amps at sametime? Say 1 amp doing sub second doing mids/highs. Like most do in cars these days
Yes. I saw them and Randy said it has 2 separate outputs. That is a necessity in my book.
If need arise for another amp, u can always use an RCA splitter
Is it possible to add L/R balance controls to a pre-amp that doesn't come with it? I have a weird room and I need to lower my L channel by 2-3db
It’s really disappointing that some “premium” preamps and amps have no balance controls. My NAD M10 didn’t have one, but they actually released new firmware that included it. Remarkable.
Defeatable tone and balance controls should be offered even on headphone amps IMO
Streamer with EQ? Raspberry pi with moode perhaps
Randy: Any plans to review the TYR?
Sir,
I want to buy a used audio file CD player , I am from India.
Which onces would be cheap and better option for me.
Used Sony Blu-Ray player works like a boss!
@@r00s. I am looking for a proper audio file CD player
how we connect a sub?
your description of a preamp isn't really correct. Most preamps, including this one, have an amplification stage in addition to the control functions. While you don't like tubes, the tube version offers the option of changing to sound of the thing by using different tubes. If amplification isn't required one can buy a cheaper product from Schiit. That's called Sys, and it's $49.
Thanks
If you have a DAC (Modi) and an amp, when would you need a preamp?
If your amplifier/DAC doesn't have a volume control, a preamp can help. If that's all you need, Schiit makes a passive preamp that serves just that purpose for around $50.
Some also like multiple input devices to switch between. Sounds like you’re content with just one input device and, if it has a volume control and sufficient drive for your amp of choice, then you are all set without a preamp.
Unnecessary pedantry of the day: wouldn't this technically be a linestage since it doesn't have a phono stage?
What are the chances of any Schiit products coming back in stock in UK and mainland Europe? There’s been nothing available for at least 6 months.
I'm not sure. I'll check in with them and see what they have to say
Thanks