Mo, thank you for making this! Maybe the reason your speakers are playing lower than the spec is because of the boundary gain they're getting? Another tip for people is to run the tests with Audyssey disabled just in case the EQ is boosting certain frequencies which might affect the SPL reading.
What’s up Joe! You know what. I just checked the frequency response in the manual and B&W CCM663 have a frequency response of 45-50,000 Hz (-6db). It makes sense now. Your point about boundary gain is spot on as well. I did run them in pure direct and got the same bass response as with Audyssey. Thank you for keeping me honest!
I would set the crossover right at the -3db fall off point. Or as close as possible (some processors don't allow incremental db for crossover. example, D&M crossover is every 20hz). Another good technique is to put the crossover point 10db above where the drop off point is. If your speakers fall of at 50hz, then set the crossover at 60hz. Another technique is to set the crossover point for ALL the speakers the same, even if some speakers have a different -3db point, the idea is that when all speakers are set to the same crossover point, it allows your speakers tonal balance to remain completely consistent as the transition to the subwoofer is the same no matter the speaker.
Thank you so much. I started with the same 60 hz for all the 7 bed layer speakers, CT7.4 and CT7.5. I only decided to change to different crossovers after using REW to find the best crossovers for smoother bass throughout.
Great video. According to DIRAC, my speakers drop off at 40-45hz. I am currently cutting them off at 80hz. Would lowering my crossover to say 60hz be more desirable and if so, what would the benefits be? More directional bass?
I say try 60 hz. If the bass is not as powerful then switch back to 80 hz. Directional Bass is more for multiple subs in my opinion. I think 60 hz would be more appropriate if the +/- 3 db limit of your speakers is truly at 40-45 hz.
I really like the way you explain things. Can you help me out with a query on my sub. Im having denon 1800h amp. 1))Before starting calibration i turned the volume knob behind the sub to half and i let the crossover at the starting position.After calibration While adjusting the level using spl meter my sub is just reaching 65 db with knob in half position and -3 db in test tone.why so.normally with -3db and in half position the spl should show 75 right coz i think -3db is enough loud. 2)Second what should i do to avoid boominess from sub.
Audyssey is known to set subwoofer level too low but in my opinion it depends on the location and distance from the main listening position. What subwoofer do you have? Are you using Audyssey MultEQ App to run Audyssey? The crossover on the sub is disabled if you use the LFE input. How many Audyssey Mic positions are you using?
@magnoliamo yes im using lfe input.Im using the audyssey mic which came along with denon receiver.Taga 212 se 12 inch sub is what i use and my room size is 13*8*6 room. Since its a small room i placed the mic in 3 positions.centre left and right.
Ok. I would recommend taking all 8 measurements around the main listening position. MLP, left and right to the MLP. One directly in front of the MLP and then left and right of that. All no more than 20”. Then the last two immediately to the left and right of where your head would be as in this video. ua-cam.com/video/Z-p18Tr_2Nw/v-deo.htmlsi=qaWoAvl_BcQWtihg
And try to experiment with the phase if you have it by listening to some music. Adjust the phase to the point where the bass from the sub is the strongest and in sync with the fronts. If you REW and a calibrated mic then REW is a powerful tool for sub alignment with your fronts. Once you have aligned the sub with the fronts then run Audyssey. That’s my recommendation.
Why aren’t you doing a near field response? Also, I recall you had nulls maybe in the 50 and 70 hz range? Maybe a larger speaker with a crossover point that can go lower to fill in those frequencies and maybe eliminate the multiple sub channels? Just a silly thought.
@@Proper49er Thank you for the comment. It is my understanding that near field response is for the speaker frequency response which eliminates the room interaction. I have had the B&W 702 S2 setup previously in this room and still had that 60 hz. I believe with the A1 Evo installation that null has been reduced. The null primarily was caused by subs. The frequency response at the main listening of the CT7.4 does not have the null.
@@m4nc1n1 No LPF to LFE is set to default of 120 hz. I have individual crossovers setup for all the speakers. 60 hz for bed layer speakers, 80 hz for top middle, 120 hz for front heights, 80 hz for rear heights.
In this video I was assessing the crossover points and therefore set the height speakers to large which caused the LFE to default to 250 for some reason.
Hello , are you try the EVO Maestro script from OCA ? , this tool for me is the best so far to polish your Denon or Marantz , I can even say the results are better that I got with Dirac
Sorry, however I will have to disagree on two accounts: 1. 10 dB down at 32 hz should then (IMO) be a crossover at 60 hz (not 40 hz), 2. Even say at 60 hz one needs to also take into account Dynamic range, and so just because a speaker can play flat to a given frequency doesn't mean that it can do so to full reference levels with very low distortion. I know people just HATE to buy hulking tower speakers and then have them crossed over at 60, 70, or even 80 hz, however very often (more often than not) one's tower speakers really ought to be crossed over at 60 hz minimum and often at 70 hz, or even 80 hz. Now, if one does reference level testing with a 40 hz crossover and all us great, then by all means 40 hz it is 🙂
@johndaddabbo9383 thank you! I agree with you. I have always used 60 hz as the crossover for the fronts and only recently changed it to 40 hz. Reason was for the change was additional fine tuning using Audyssey and REW. At the 15:20 min mark is where I determined that 60 hz was the right crossover using REW and sub alignment. I am interested in your thoughts on whether I arrived at this correctly or not. Here is the video. Thanks for setting me straight. ua-cam.com/video/5DYUPhM-VDI/v-deo.htmlsi=p-OTNG4lsoColeNj How to get tighter bass with Audyssey MultEq #hometheater ua-cam.com/video/Z-p18Tr_2Nw/v-deo.html
Thanks so much for sharing this tool with us. I'm interested in applying the idea to a stereo system with bookshelves and subwoofers. Happily, UA-cam has a number of video's with test tones. This one provides tones from 5Hz to 200Hz; ua-cam.com/video/aBlJebipLgM/v-deo.html It's an upward progression but with my subs turned off, I simply play the video and as soon as I hear a tone from my bookshelf speakers, I immediately pause it at that point, taking note of the frequency, then turn on my radio shack sound meter and start the video back up. The sound meter shows when I've reached the bookshelves 3 db point as the sound meter will stay level at tones played upward from that point. No guess work involved in then setting the subwoofer's crossover point. Thanks again.
Yes, for 2-channel, those UA-cam videos will work. For my 2-channel I use the Stereophile Test CDs. In addition to the warble test tones and bass sweeps those discs have some really good demo music with “what you should listen for”. I will check out the video in your comment. Thanks for sharing.
This is a great video Mo! I love the idea about using a dB meter for this test. Great job, Mo!
@@TechnoDad Thank you Sir!
Mo, thank you for making this! Maybe the reason your speakers are playing lower than the spec is because of the boundary gain they're getting? Another tip for people is to run the tests with Audyssey disabled just in case the EQ is boosting certain frequencies which might affect the SPL reading.
What’s up Joe! You know what. I just checked the frequency response in the manual and B&W CCM663 have a frequency response of 45-50,000 Hz (-6db). It makes sense now. Your point about boundary gain is spot on as well. I did run them in pure direct and got the same bass response as with Audyssey. Thank you for keeping me honest!
I would set the crossover right at the -3db fall off point. Or as close as possible (some processors don't allow incremental db for crossover. example, D&M crossover is every 20hz). Another good technique is to put the crossover point 10db above where the drop off point is. If your speakers fall of at 50hz, then set the crossover at 60hz.
Another technique is to set the crossover point for ALL the speakers the same, even if some speakers have a different -3db point, the idea is that when all speakers are set to the same crossover point, it allows your speakers tonal balance to remain completely consistent as the transition to the subwoofer is the same no matter the speaker.
Thank you so much. I started with the same 60 hz for all the 7 bed layer speakers, CT7.4 and CT7.5. I only decided to change to different crossovers after using REW to find the best crossovers for smoother bass throughout.
Great video. According to DIRAC, my speakers drop off at 40-45hz. I am currently cutting them off at 80hz. Would lowering my crossover to say 60hz be more desirable and if so, what would the benefits be? More directional bass?
I say try 60 hz. If the bass is not as powerful then switch back to 80 hz. Directional Bass is more for multiple subs in my opinion. I think 60 hz would be more appropriate if the +/- 3 db limit of your speakers is truly at 40-45 hz.
I really like the way you explain things. Can you help me out with a query on my sub. Im having denon 1800h amp.
1))Before starting calibration i turned the volume knob behind the sub to half and i let the crossover at the starting position.After calibration While adjusting the level using spl meter my sub is just reaching 65 db with knob in half position and -3 db in test tone.why so.normally with -3db and in half position the spl should show 75 right coz i think -3db is enough loud.
2)Second what should i do to avoid boominess from sub.
Audyssey is known to set subwoofer level too low but in my opinion it depends on the location and distance from the main listening position. What subwoofer do you have? Are you using Audyssey MultEQ App to run Audyssey? The crossover on the sub is disabled if you use the LFE input. How many Audyssey Mic positions are you using?
@magnoliamo yes im using lfe input.Im using the audyssey mic which came along with denon receiver.Taga 212 se 12 inch sub is what i use and my room size is 13*8*6 room. Since its a small room i placed the mic in 3 positions.centre left and right.
@@magnoliamo 13 feet to centre...12 feet to front left and right... 2 feet to surrounds and 3 feet to atmos.
Ok. I would recommend taking all 8 measurements around the main listening position. MLP, left and right to the MLP. One directly in front of the MLP and then left and right of that. All no more than 20”. Then the last two immediately to the left and right of where your head would be as in this video. ua-cam.com/video/Z-p18Tr_2Nw/v-deo.htmlsi=qaWoAvl_BcQWtihg
And try to experiment with the phase if you have it by listening to some music. Adjust the phase to the point where the bass from the sub is the strongest and in sync with the fronts. If you REW and a calibrated mic then REW is a powerful tool for sub alignment with your fronts. Once you have aligned the sub with the fronts then run Audyssey. That’s my recommendation.
Why aren’t you doing a near field response? Also, I recall you had nulls maybe in the 50 and 70 hz range? Maybe a larger speaker with a crossover point that can go lower to fill in those frequencies and maybe eliminate the multiple sub channels? Just a silly thought.
@@Proper49er Thank you for the comment. It is my understanding that near field response is for the speaker frequency response which eliminates the room interaction. I have had the B&W 702 S2 setup previously in this room and still had that 60 hz. I believe with the A1 Evo installation that null has been reduced. The null primarily was caused by subs. The frequency response at the main listening of the CT7.4 does not have the null.
You run your LFE at 250? The Martantz default is 120 and I am pretty sure there is no LFE coded above 120. Just curious why you set to 250.
@@m4nc1n1 No LPF to LFE is set to default of 120 hz. I have individual crossovers setup for all the speakers. 60 hz for bed layer speakers, 80 hz for top middle, 120 hz for front heights, 80 hz for rear heights.
In this video I was assessing the crossover points and therefore set the height speakers to large which caused the LFE to default to 250 for some reason.
Hello , are you try the EVO Maestro script from OCA ? , this tool for me is the best so far to polish your Denon or Marantz , I can even say the results are better that I got with Dirac
Yes that is the plan.
@@magnoliamo such amazing program and is Free
@mauriciob8260 Agree. Just watched the UA-cam video by OCA. Sounds simple enough. I’ll let you know how this goes.
@@magnoliamo I will love you post a video about your results
Sorry, however I will have to disagree on two accounts: 1. 10 dB down at 32 hz should then (IMO) be a crossover at 60 hz (not 40 hz), 2. Even say at 60 hz one needs to also take into account Dynamic range, and so just because a speaker can play flat to a given frequency doesn't mean that it can do so to full reference levels with very low distortion. I know people just HATE to buy hulking tower speakers and then have them crossed over at 60, 70, or even 80 hz, however very often (more often than not) one's tower speakers really ought to be crossed over at 60 hz minimum and often at 70 hz, or even 80 hz. Now, if one does reference level testing with a 40 hz crossover and all us great, then by all means 40 hz it is 🙂
@johndaddabbo9383 thank you! I agree with you. I have always used 60 hz as the crossover for the fronts and only recently changed it to 40 hz. Reason was for the change was additional fine tuning using Audyssey and REW. At the 15:20 min mark is where I determined that 60 hz was the right crossover using REW and sub alignment. I am interested in your thoughts on whether I arrived at this correctly or not. Here is the video. Thanks for setting me straight.
ua-cam.com/video/5DYUPhM-VDI/v-deo.htmlsi=p-OTNG4lsoColeNj
How to get tighter bass with Audyssey MultEq #hometheater
ua-cam.com/video/Z-p18Tr_2Nw/v-deo.html
Thanks so much for sharing this tool with us. I'm interested in applying the idea to a stereo system with bookshelves and subwoofers. Happily, UA-cam has a number of video's with test tones. This one provides tones from 5Hz to 200Hz; ua-cam.com/video/aBlJebipLgM/v-deo.html
It's an upward progression but with my subs turned off, I simply play the video and as soon as I hear a tone from my bookshelf speakers, I immediately pause it at that point, taking note of the frequency, then turn on my radio shack sound meter and start the video back up. The sound meter shows when I've reached the bookshelves 3 db point as the sound meter will stay level at tones played upward from that point. No guess work involved in then setting the subwoofer's crossover point. Thanks again.
Yes, for 2-channel, those UA-cam videos will work. For my 2-channel I use the Stereophile Test CDs. In addition to the warble test tones and bass sweeps those discs have some really good demo music with “what you should listen for”. I will check out the video in your comment. Thanks for sharing.
Amit ji AAP??
I don’t know what you mean lol?