How Accepting Are Most Men & Women To Non-Monogamy?
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- Опубліковано 3 кві 2023
- Dr Andrew G Thomas shares his thoughts on multi-partner & non-monogamous relationships. How accepting are most men and women to non monogamous relationships? Are men more likely to be polygamous than women?
#nonmonogamy #polygamy #relationships
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I think this conversation is only happening because we can separate sex from having children more effectively than we could before. As soon as you throw in questioning wether or not that kid is yours the conversation dramatically changes.
I was thinking the same thing. In the past, I assume, children where more of the focus for humans and sex was a way to get that. Now, sex is the focus and children is just something that happens because of sex. There's also the fact that we have work/entertainment now and pre school and school. Where, in the past humans spent basically 24/7 with the children. Priorities have shifted dramatically.
@@prodbyed4549 Parents today actually spend more time with their children than they did 50 years ago (UCI study)
@@Sashique86 Maybe I didn't add context but when I said "the past" I meant like before roads were a thing or cities. Spending "more time" could just mean 1 hour more or 2 mins more, but I said 24/7. Today children go to school for like 8hrs, and then sleep for around 8hrs, maybe, (8+8=16). Then they have after school activities like sports or whatever lets say and extra 2hrs without parental presence( 16+2=18). 24-18=6 and now they have maybe 6hrs or so to spend time with their parents IF they're not on tablets, the game or cell phones. That's the average day (for Americans at least). I'm sure the studies are correct but what does "more time" mean? 6hrs instead of the 5hrs 50 years ago? Spending 6hrs with your parents or parent compared to thousands of years ago when it was more like 24/7 is a big change in humanity, considering that a couple thousands years is not a long time from a historical and evolutionary perspective.
@@Sashique86
The availability of daycare for the last 3 + decades isnt even comparable to what it was 50 years ago.
All of you reading this know this. The norm then was a housewife rearing kids. Since at least the 80s its become having someone else care for your kids.
You people are just gullible af, if someone puts out something claiming its a study, you'll deny your understanding of reality.
Even knowing the rampant retraction rates on papers due to ideology, fame and wealth seeking
@@thehydra4007 I agree about "studies," the academic process has been HIGHLY compromised. "Peer reviewed" doesn't mean that much anymore.
If your girl wants to be non monogamous, it usually just means one of two things. She's ready to move on, but she's scared of being single/alone or you're not good enough for her in bed. Either way, if she brings it up, just end it there, relationships over
Facts
A lot of women are so deathly afraid of being single they'll be months into dating someone before even initiating a divorce. They'll go the route of absolutely destroying a marriage and their image to avoid being single for a handful of months. I think that's also a lot of people's problems. They aren't comfortable with being single and "alone". It actually makes for a healthier relationship when both people are fully comfortable enough with themselves being entirely alone.
When you're the kind of person that places your entire self worth, mood, security etc. on another person; you're placing a LOT of weight on that person. That leads to massive burnout and exhaustion.
@@sixten7920 Facts. Everyone should be able to be alone and be fine. I know people in poly relationships and there always is jealousy from at least one side. That doesn't seem healthy.
This post gives me a “I got outdone by a dill doe, so my gf left.” vibe.
@@clydefrog6959 that's cool. I'd rather give that vibe than the "your comment made me mad insecure because I let my girl get banged by other men" vibe you give off.
I watched an interview with a husband and wife who’d been married for 50 years. They asked the man what he thought about men having multiple wives. He laughed and said that might sound exciting to a young buck but you’ll find out real quick you cant build a solid, long lasting and deep connection with multiple wives or be there to properly raise and support multiple households with children. Plus the only thing more terrifying than knowing your wife’s took your credit card to town is thinking there was 2 of them! 😂
The top cut of guys are fucking multiple girls at the same time anyway lol. I remember my mate from school fucked 3 of the hottest girls in the year (or got head from them) in one week, and may have still banged his ugly girl the same week (cant remember)... and i've only seen it get worse as i've got older. If you're gonna bang them, you might as well be responsible for them. Otherwise they become Alpha widowed and end up the problem of the average joe who'll never satisfy her and doesn't realise it.
The real solution is no sex before marriage, but we're not gonna talk about it till it's too late. But that way, only the TOP guys, who can sustain multiple women, will have multiple women.
Lol
@@IlPinnacolo - Agree. If a man has the wealth, then why not have multiple wives if all involved can divvy up time / roles for various ends to be met. It's obviously not all about sex. Economics play a large part, which can bring the security that many want, anyway. Not a slight against monogamous couples at all. Where many have powerfully bonded in marriage, for decades, it's beautiful. But others seem to be able to do well in having multiple wives.
@@IlPinnacolo It’s kind of a selfish take. It’s only thinking about yourself and your desires. Not once was what your partner needs and desires or what’s best for the children mentioned. This generation is all about me me me. Just my take. Most of the men who talk the biggest talk about how they could effortlessly have multiple wives can’t even properly provide for 1 family let alone multiple families. Your statement greatly diminishes a true pair bond between a husband and wife. We’re a Christian family and Bible says a husband and wife become 1. Creating a loving long marriage is difficult enough without adding unnecessary levels of complications. Just my opinion. You do you ✌🏻
@@IlPinnacolo what's fallacious is thinking a marriage and a parent child relationship are the same
Polygamy was great back in the day when 3/4 of the men died in battle or were eaten by bears. In the modern age, it causes a large population of bored, unmarried blokes, a situation which rarely ends well.
It ends badly for women.
@@user-og6hl6lv7pThat depends. Some women desire a relationship and children but don't have a monogamous option. In some of these cases the benifits of polygyny out way the negatives.
Divorce is never the way out, My wife and I have been having issues before I sort out help from a spiritual adviser,i wasnt going to let my marriage of 18years crash
amazing,i am kinda in a similar situation,how did you handle it?
@@peterwilliams6361 well not the orthodox way but i was referred by a friend to a spiritual adviser and healer
@@DavidVelasquez9 please how can i get in touch with the spiritual adviser?
@@peterwilliams6361 her name is SHELLY RENEE WHITE,and she is a great spiritual adviser as well as caster
you can look her name up online and you will find all you need.
I've been watching a lot of video essays and discussions about relationships / families and it's evident that families suffer greatly when they lack the father figure.
Introducing polygamy into the scenario doesn't fix the situation because the father's attention and care is divided. Kids don't care about your money, they care that you didn't give them a kiss goodnight & bedtime story.
If you wanna f*ck around, go ahead but when it comes to being a parent grow up, take it seriously and put your children before your genitals please.
1,000% - this is absolute brass tacks facts
Obligatory "I'm a single mother and my boys ended up fine!" comment in 3...2...1....
Yes dear, you may have the right tools in toolbox to do so, most people can't.
Then Monogamous couples with 12 kids should learn this lesson as well
I agree with a lot of MGTOW, but many stop short of the real world consequences of “one man, many women”. Monogamy is a huge reason so many small groups of people were and are able to build and maintain wealth. Resources split between many children and families makes it increasingly hard to build up wealth, so you can pass it to the next generation, and they can build on that for the future. Too many kids = spread too thin = only the crazy rich men of those times continued to succeed. Everyone else is stuck poor.
Well said
In 30 years of dating I can honestly say I have never met a healthy polyamorous person or polyamorous couple. God, I remember around 5-6 years ago this married poly dudes "boyfriend" (trans guy) accused him of sexual abuse and they literally held a public online council to "hold him accountable". I tried dating a poly person only to realise they are just too selfish and self-absorbed to be a good sex partner let alone any type of partner worth of note. Dating apps are chock full of them now. It is awful.
Zero acceptance for me. I don't even like intentional dating if the other person is seeing multiple people. If we go on more than a couple of dates and I know you're still entertaining others, I'm just going to walk away. Dating is exhausting enough without putting up with that lol. Some females will take their time trying to "decide which one they want". Well here let me make your decision easier on you.
Homie got the right mindset 🙏know your worth king 👑
Exactly how it should be. Keep your self worth as a man! Women should do this too of course.
Sounds like something someone who doesn't have many options would say
@Tony Stark does it? Did you see the part where I said "intentional" dating? I get my fair share of holes. Learn reading comprehension next time before you show off how well you can swallow your own foot.
Lol, same for the guy and I’m with ya.
I really am trying to be open to the possibility that there's a subset of humans who are wired for polygamy but the more I learn about it and the more I observe people around me who try it, the less I believe. Seriously, each and every one of my friends who has tried it was unhappy in their relationship but didn't have the courage to end it and in all cases their relationships ended in the following months. There's even one of them who told me after a few months of dating multiple people at once that she wasn't able to be seriously invested in multiple relationships at once (had to refrain a ''duh'' when she told me that).
I've lived in and among polyamorous communities for more than a decade. I think that there are kind of... ...two different polyamorous "communities." There are lifers -- who are committed in their core to living polyamorously. And then there are "dabblers" -- people who are just exploring polyamory, wondering if it will solve their relationship issues or unfulfilled longings. And for some strange reason that I do not really understand, it seems to me that the dabblers all find each other and hang out with other dabblers, whereas the lifers all find each other and engage with one another. I've dated dabblers and been shut out by dabblers. And I've lived with lifers and had long term relationships with lifers. The dynamics between the two are radically different.
I think the critical thing, if you are looking at it, is to find the lifers. Go to polyamorous potlucks that have decades long of history. Go to New Culture camps. Find the communities where people have been polyamorous their entire life. *Avoid* the events that are for newcomers, because that's where you meet the people who are fellow dabblers. *Avoid* things like "Is polyamory possible?" I think that people who are new to it should seek out the people who've been polyamorous for at least a decade to talk with.
Incidentally, dating multiple people at the same time indeed WOULD be exhausting. Polyamorous people don't typically date like that, though, and typically gravitate towards living with or near one another. There are a lot, a LOT of polyam houses and communities where I live (Seattle.)
But in short -- there definitely are men and women who are wired for polyamory. These are men and women who are emphatic: "I'm polyamorous, I've known I was polyamorous from a young age, and I won't live differently for any man or woman. This is a non-negotiable about myself." It doesn't come from striving to fit an external image or an ideal, it's just a matter of "I know who I am and this is what I want, this is what I've always wanted."
@@LionKimbro How do they deal with laws that say that once a couple has been living together more than a certain amount of time they are considered to share their wealth?
Some people do appear to be straight wired for this, though I can't confirm it. I am one of them.
I grew up with only mono influences. Mono parents, still together. All characters on TV I saw were single or mono. Friends at school started to get partners, it was mono. Etc. I was not presented with any other option.
Any yet... From about 13 when friends started to get girlfriends and the "you looked at a other person", you flirted with someone else" stuff started to happen. And I was really confused. I was thinking to myself "these people are fucking weird, why would it matter if their boyfriend / girlfriend flirted or liked someone else as well, how odd"
As I got a bit old sex entered the equation and I remember the same thing of being confused why anyone would be upset about a partner having sex with someone else.
I hardcore projected and thought it was all these people who were the odd ones out. I assumed there really were some mono people but that most must just be following along because it was an accepted social trope, they couldn't really function like this, surely.
It took me until well well into my first serious relationship, at 25/26 to realise "huh... I think I might be the odd one out".
So I started to research and over the next few days found out the terms non-monogamy, polyamory etc and it was an AH HA! moment. As I was reading the descriptions of the emotions, perspectives, thought processes etc people who were describing themselves as poly expressed, it was almost to a T in almost every aspect exactly how I function emotionally and had done since early teen years.
I am still friends with the partner of that relationship but we called it quits as that wasn't going to work for us. Then I started looking for poly women. Not just poly but poly and functioning mostly like I do related to jealousy.
Put simply, I don't seem to experience default jealousy at all. By this I mean I experience no negative emotions at all from a partner having romantic feelings, dates, sex etc with others, male or female. I don't have an issue with them having commitments either, provided they don't step on our commitments.
I can experience jealousy if say a partner were to start breaking commitments, lying etc. But provided we want time together and stick to our promises I not only feel fine but feel happy. For me, emotionally, a partner having sex with someone else feels similar to them going to a knitting course with their mum. They are doing something they like with someone else who also likes it.
I also love details of partners other sexual escapades etc.
I am capable of pretty full on commitment. Living together, full on financial investments, being there if someone gets ill, refusing to leave the hospital ward after visiting hours because my partner had had an operation and was scared, holidays, sticking to all commitments and so on.
I have also found most poly partners I have had to be capable of this all as well. Love, trust, honesty, commitment, reliability, fairness, loyalty and so on.
I have also had a couple of partners who were all over the place and I don't think we're emotionally cut out for poly at all. I think they liked it in principle but we're not really emotionally well constituted for it.
Most of the things many people claim inherently require exclusivity just don't. I have and feel all the same positive emotions and closeness to partners that my parents, mono friends etc have. The experiences when discussed are pretty much identical, just without the exclusivity part.
Logically my perspective is as follows. All you can ever rely on is a partner being honest, reliable, consistent, caring, trustworthy and so on. In either mono or poly if you have a partner who is not these things you are screwed. In either mono or poly if you have are partner who is these things, you are fine.
If you are someone who doesn't experience any negative emotions by default from a partner having romance, sex, time etc with others then the only fear remaining is being left for someone else etc. But this comes down to the character of a partner, a partner who just won't do that won't do it mono or poly.
I am quite prone to being friends with partners other partners as well. Have walked down the street holding a partners hand whilst their other partner holds the other hand.
I have been out at places with two partners at once.
I have been walking down the street with a partner whilst she tried to point out the other women she thinks I would find hot. I always used to do this with my first partner, pointing out other guys, which she found confusing as hell. Just seemed like an obvious fun activity to me.
But most of the time I will be with a single partner at a time, just doing the same stuff mono couples do.
Another thing that has just always intuitively made sense to me relates to things I am not interested in. For example sexually I am Dom. I can't switch or sub to save my life. I tried it when I was younger, total fail. So when I have a partner who is a switch they also would like ideally to experience being able to be dominant in the bedroom sometimes. I can't offer being sub for them because I would be faking it and I'm not up for that. Given poly I can just be like "yeah, not my thing, but find a guy who that works for and have at it"
The mono alternative would be to say "I am not interested in ever doing that with you, BUT YOU HAD BETTER NOT EVER DO IT WITH SOMEONE ELSE!
I can sort of understand in principle someone being upset if a partner wants more of what they offer from someone else, but to be upset about a partner wanting someone you have no wish or intention to ever offer anyway?! I don't get it at all. I can't do a good "women's night out" either, so a partner does that with her friends who are women. Just seems obvious to me.
So as someone who grew up in a mono culture, mono parents, was bought up in a stable loving environment with both parents present, doesn't have any issues with intimacy, is by DSM5 standards Neurotypical, has suffered no major trauma as of yet, but yet seem to have a very different emotional setup relating to jealousy, it certainly feels innate. Of course it might not be, maybe there is some set of circumstances I can't identify that create this kind of emotional setup.
Also, and I acknowledge this slightly makes me an arsehole, when I have seen people, friends, torn up over their partner having sex with others, in these cases cheating, or friends who tried poly and then got really hurt and couldn't handle it, I felt bad for them, but I also felt and thought "man, I am so fucking lucky, this utterly trashes most people emotionally, and for me I end up not just fine, but with a big shit eating grin and wanting to know the details for fun. Jesus Christ I have lucked out emotionally". It feels like a kind of immunity from something that looks to me like an absolutely awful experience.
@@BadAssNigga95 If you can indicate the harm, I will consider it. But I see the harm in the other direction.
Women want it, men tolerate it and pretend they want it as well so they can maintain accesss to that woman.
I have absolutely no interest in this and do not accept it. I believe it’s a degenerate behavior and nothing loves company more that degenerates. It validates their behavior.
No thanks. If you are in an “open” relationship then you are not in a relationship. The exclusivity and commitment is the entire point.
LOL
Social media destroyed the western dating market beyond belief. Women’s standards are through the roof now.
This shit is happening in the urban metros of India (Mumbai, Pune, Delhi, Bengaluru) as well. It's everywhere. Western influence on the world is very strong and insidious.
I can’t imagine it’s influencing other places too much… if a place is urbanizing… especially quickly, that would be the main cause. Not America.
Do you include "on line dating" in social media category?
I agree with you to a certain extent... but there are two sides to every coin. Men also have been destroyed by porn. The vast majority are just lazy, disgusting porn addicts now and women can make more money than most men.... so what's the incentive to settle?
I saw a post on instagram surrounding "traditional" ways of life yesterday. In the comments was a handful of women going back and forth about how are they supposed to achieve this when there are no quality guys. I just didn't even have the energy or desire to go back and forth with them about anything but all I could think was; Is it really that the guys aren't quality, or are your standards so astronomical that you'll never get what you're looking for. It's not about "lowering your standards" as much as it is having realistic standards to begin with.
All they were doing is gassing each other up on this take on dating. There was ONE female in the comments who was saying that once she came to the realization she had too many "pen and paper" check list qualifications for a man to meet, ditched the check list and just started legit meeting and getting to know men; she ended up with a great guy who she would've overlooked before. Zero of these women engaged in conversation with her about that.
Women's standards haven't been lower in recent memory, they're just specific things that a lot of guys refuse to do/learn.
while there is proof of polygamy in the past there is also proof of human sacrifice should we bring that back too have we not evolved from these issues
On one of the manoswamp channels a guy posted he had an open relationship with a woman, one he instigated in order that he could date a few women at the same time.
He was crushed when that same woman was going out on a date with another man she would have s3x with. Guess he lost at his own game.
If he had any game whatsoever the lady would think he was monogamous to her. He was a dumbass
@@TheOlzee
It was his idea
Plenty of stories of women doing this too, it's narcissism
@@jayc342009 any female that does it too, i.e. claims to want to keep it open from the start should either automatically be dismissed or just used for sex. That’s a troubled female.
Women do this all the time!
In my past experience, it was physically and emotionally draining just to date 3 at the same time.
ok for a short time, but I got stuff to do
@Matt THX As someone who’s been married to the same person for ages every time I come across the “manoswamp” I get the impression that it’s mostly just talk. They have so many contradicting theories on women and relationships that it’s quite obvious that very few of the swamp dwellers have ever been in a relationship, let alone in a successful one.
Eh, I thoroughly enjoyed it.
If they are "fleeting situationships" it's entirely possible. If you are playing the perfect prospect husband.... rather not😅
Well the answer is quite to why Monogamy is the best:
Dealing with multiple wives/ girlfriends is a massive headache.
Eh, disagreed.
It's fine except major holidays.
I tried arranging DATES with 4 women two weeks ago. It messed with my head soooo hard already...
I ended up ditching 3 and only focusing on one
@@anthonypillarella How? One partner is hard enough already
@@anthonypillarella Elaborate on that please
I'll hard pass. One wholesome, loyal, and lasting monogamous relationship is all I need, and it's difficult enough to find. I want a real depth of connection, not a diversity / variety of half deep entanglements. I don't believe polyamory works, and do believe it is motivated by the sexual component in the west. It has in some Islamic cultures, because women wholly submit by religion, which creates a very toxic "ownership & obedience" dynamic. In my country India, independent of religious view - there's this divinity, responsibility, and duty assigned to Monogamy and the vow "Till Death do Us Part", and marriages have a track record of working, lasting, and growing. We have one of the lowest divorce rates in the world, under 1.3%, and that's what I want. My life is impermanent and fleeting, and I only crave lasting things within an already impermanent lifetime.
No way in hell I would be monogamous with a man that isn't.
You will convince yourself that you can outcompete the rest of the harem.
@@Trazynn I would never compete for a man.
@@Florida20 enjoy your cats
@@washyourhandswithsoap I like my dog
@@washyourhandswithsoap you say that like it's a bad thing at least cats are enjoyable to be around
Funny how flourishing countries tend to have monogamy.
Gulf countries are flourishing and they have ploygamy???
@@karimtarig88 no they're not, only a small minority.
@@karimtarig88 wait 25 years
@@hesmycat for what?? Oil to finish lol the diversified there resources having stakea in every major company in all industries out there juat ask blackrock
@@Madonnalitta1 yeah but they still do it.
If u have good resources and can sustain it emotionally why not??
My wife's boyfriend is so annoying. He's always taking beers out of the fridge like he owns the place.
Or go the passive-aggressive cunt route and find out what beer he truly despises, and then supplant with that...
Bruh 😂😂😂😂
Username checks out
@@luxurybuzz3681 omg dude, i'm obviously joking. My wife's boyfriend is a part owner of house after my wife wanted me to write him into the deed.
@@luxurybuzz3681 So taking the beers back makes him even on an evolutionary role? He's impregnating my girl, possibly passing his genes on, but I got those beers! hahahaha
Each generation further expects they can "have it all." Only after some very painful failures do they realize they can't. This is just more of that. You'll never reach the highest form of love until you commit fully to one other. Not five or three--one. It's not as if today is the first time anyone tried alternatives. Humans didn't start with committed monogamy, they had to evolve towards it. They started with random sex, but eventually wanted more to life than what dogs had.
*highest form of love until you commit fully to one other*
Every spiritual teacher worththeir weight, would debate that vehemently.
How did you come to your conclusions about the evolutionary history of monogamy? Were you alive 250,000 years ago, or do you just make stuff up to fit your fantasy of reality?
@@brushstroke3733 waiting for where you offer a counterpoint instead of asking random questions and not making an argument
@@Jenna-xt7ni Good for you, sunshine.
The highest form of love has nothing to do with expecting something back from the "other". Humans didn't have to evolve towards "committed monogamy" - it's been the predominant form of reproduction in apes long before humans. Evolution doesn't work in the way Lamarck proposed. Darwin's ideas were much closer.
People think they do, but they don’t. That comes coupled with a whole bunch of stuff they don’t understand.
I think people believe they would be OK with it view it as a situation where they are the ones with multiple partners. Even some of my best friends who have been married for years joke they would be down to have free range to sleep around but would not like it at all if their wife did. Funny thing about it is, multi person relationships seems to me like it's purely about sexual enjoyment. I don't think I ever see it discussed in regards to anything except you have sex with multiple people at once. To me, it's such a shallow concept.
That's easy.... Not accepting of it. Sure, there is a small number of people who are OK with this dynamic, but most people would not be. I don't just trust what a study "results" are purported to be. I would need to see the questionnaire to be sure the results were accurate. I also think that age range of respondents has an insanely high impact on this. For instance, guys in their 20s, I think, would answer very differently as compared to men in their 40s. I think this becomes even more extreme in women. For example, I think that if you look at the average age of when respondents say that monogamy matters, that starts anytime after the age of 30. Then of course, as pointed out, stated vs true preferences comes into it. Many men and women say, in a vacuum, that they would be accepting of this. But if you ask people currently in relationships, I'm positive almost none of them say that polygamy is preferred, either way. Essentially, you are OK with it if aren't in a relationship or are seeking a bunch of one night stands, but as soon as you want one of the partners to stick around, your position reverses.
🤮
I've been meeting up recently with a woman who's into non-monogamy. She's in her late 40's, has a grown son, and is just looking to have some good sexual adventures. I'm totally cool with that. Hanging out with her has been fun and may lead to some even wilder experiences. It all comes down to what you're looking for and how you approach life.
I met a girl at my gym recently, took her on a few dates and we both agreed we didn’t want anything serious at the moment, but also established that we were interested in each other and wanted to see where it went.
She’s a feminist, so I got to a point where I knew something was off and had to pull some more info out of her. I was ok with closing myself off to other options while getting to know her, but I discovered that she wanted to keep herself available. Her reason? “I’m not seeing anyone else, and the likelihood of that happening is low anyways, but I don’t want someone being able to tell me what I can or can’t do, or having any say in my life right now.”
My reasonable request of wanting to date exclusively was interpreted by her as me having an internalized ownership complex and wanting to control her life. I told her I appreciated her honesty but that I would not continue to date her. I explained that her modern dating ethic is disrespectful, while she insisted that I re-think my perspective that this is disrespectful.
I will not be respectfully disrespected by these chicks- and neither will you! Guys, stop dating these girls. And make sure you tell them why this stuff isn’t gonna fly with you, because you’re a good man and you don’t tolerate bullshit. These chicks need to know that they can’t have their cake and eat it too. You’re the prize, gentlemen. You control who gets to have a relationship with you. If she disrespects your request and doesn’t reciprocate your sentiments, you’re wasting time and money on her.
How can you expect exclusivity from someone you don’t want anything serious from anyway? You need to make your mind up. Either accept what you get for the short term fun you have or actually buckle up and do things seriously. Otherwise you just sound like a self entitled child
I'm in this situation right now, and this comment is exactly what I needed to see. Thank you my man, you helped a guy a ton without even realising it.
To be fair, if you don't want anything serious and still expect sexual monogamy, that is a deal which greatly advantages the one with less sexual opportunity - usually the guy. She sounds as if she might not have wanted to marry or have kids, but if she did, that would flip the benefits even more greatly in favor of the man as women have a shorter window of opportunity (their fertile adult years).
Women way too often waste their fertile years with men who want to have sex with them, but never plan to marry or have kids. "I want to keep seeing you and having sex, but not commit to you" is in itself a red flag. She knew what she wanted (casual or semi-casual sex) and that's good for her. If that's not what you want, then you need to find a woman you plan on being serious about. Stop this "not serious" bullshit.
Heres the number of premiere human civilizations built on a general societal foundation of multi-partner/non-monogamy : 0
....and if you have a premiere civilization that widely adopts it, 0 is where your civilization will be headed.
This is true. Even cultures (Arab and Muslim) that have allowed polygamy have evolved to be mostly monogamous
You're so full of it.
Monogamy only become dominant in recent centuries
You have great content! 🎉
Most of us don't have much of a choice anymore. Either you can have everyone or you can have no one. There is no in between.
LOL wise up. You are deluded. Go offline for a while
What are you talking about? Go touch some grass
Little extreme no ?
Nah, I agree with him.. Some guys have tons of options, and some guys have absolutely non.. I have a buddy I grew up with, who even lived with a bunch of us in our University days had to listen to us all fuck since the walls were paper thin. He's 5'1", balding, east indian, even though he grew up in a wealthy family too. He kissed a girl once at 26 but was and probably still is a virgin..
That's the mindset of a person who aren't strong-willed and blame other people for their choices and laziness in life.
If your husband/wife is ok with you being with anyone else, they don’t love you. Simple as that. Jealousy is always part of romantic love.
Total nonsense.
You are 110% correct
Yep, run a mile.
@@anthonypillarella I bet chicks love you
Love = loyalty. There's no such thing as part-time love or part-time loyalty.
Moving to a poly society means the majority of men will live and die alone. Women will always be able to find one or several men.
I believe more people are saying they would be open to poly be once they get in a open relationship they would dislike it thats what the current litterature suggest kinda like when kids say socialism is so great then go to venezuela and see how shit it is
People prefer secret non consensual non monogamy. Over half of people do this at some point in their lives.
Swingers have the lowest divorce rate. But most people are not suited to be swingers.
@@macmcleod1188 Swingers also don't get married. Hence there's no divorces.
@@shapshooter7769 The term "swingers" literally refers to a couple who hoes out together. The vast, VAST majority of them over the last decades have been married.
@@shapshooter7769 No. Swingers are married... otherwise they wouldn't have a low divorce rate. Sheesh. Engage yer brain.
I don't know why but my speculation is this: In a normal* relationship, over half the partners cheat and that involves *lying* and *destroying trust* which destroys many marriages. At a minimum, swinging couples don't have that issue of broken trust over sexual infidelity.
* And I use *normal* because it's the vast majority of marriages so that's the "typical" or "most common" kind of marriage.
@@macmcleod1188 thats not necessarily true I would agree that not I think around 12 % of adults in canada and I think 1/8 US ADULTS are open to poly but still the majority of people in poly dont enjoy it and polyamory on mass destabilizes societies
“All manner of fuckery” perfectedly describes it. 😂
The fact that this is a conversation being had socially speaks to the complete breakdown of simple social and romantic standards. Some may say, standards need to be challenged and confronted so they can be more suitable to humans and more functioning. That's true, but the challenge needs to be somewhat coherent. Not a hedonistic call for "freedom" based on the mating preferences, or more likely simple realities, of pre-history. When approximately 50% of women died from child-birth and the average lifespan was likely below 30. I have tried to listen to this dribble about ENM and it is one of the most mind-numbing things to speak about. It's the same few points being brought up by people who have given no deep, personal thought to those points or self-examined their intentions so they can truly understand what it is about that arrangement which is so appealing to them. There's also the best one I've heard which is "I'm just too selfish." I don't feel the need to elaborate why that statement and subsequent actions which align to such a low personal standard are less good than could reasonably be conceived. Apologies for the rant, but I am unreasonably annoyed by this topic.
This is another instance of people wanting to forego the burden of standards, accountability, and responsibility. It's far easier to just throw your hands up and be like "well we're all trash that are gonna cheat on each other might as well just openly share anyway". I don't think I've ever seen a discussion about being poly or whatever sub category that didn't revolve around sexual pleasure. It seems like an extremely shallow thing altogether. How many people talk about being poly say it's so they have more help with financial burden or other general responsibilities?
You’re right, it’s a “thing” because culture is degrading. Seems very obvious to me. Same with other stupid/twisting talking points, just a sign of the times
Actually that's not true, because polygamy was more common and was considered a stable relationship as Women depended on Men to provide and protect for them.
It was much more preferred as a Woman that Men commit their lives to them for life rather than buy time with whores or just have one night stands.
This was common 1,000's of years.
It's only in the last 1,000 or less years that Monogamy become more common and Polygamy become more looked down on.
@@ChristBearerFlameHeartyeah..asia had more polygamous marriages in the beginning...and when societies getting evolved people embraced accountability and responsibility..its seems like west evolves backword
Another reason our families are broke.
they were broke long before this trend. it's the break down of Christian values and communities in the 60s me culture that broke the family.
this poly garbage is just the play out of broken individuals that came out of broken families.
our*
Explain
@@brittanydavis4546 it degrades women, if kids are involved, will confuse them.
Having to be referee between two women over marital resources doesn't sound like a fun thing to do. As far as sexual variety, having a long term relationship with two women instead of one doesn't sound like variety.
Yes, the first sounds like a nightmare for a husband. I mean women are never satisfied even when the husband is providing all his resources to her. A wife always find reason to complain, nag, find fault with their husband andvdemand that he do more. I can only imagine when this is compounded by the husband having multiple wives.
We are in the age of hook ups. Nothing long term. Zero commitment. Thank you.
I like to call it "short term flings".
Yeah, even laundry commercials use it for advertising like it's a good thing. Disgusting.
All of these people saying they are pro-polygamy are clearly childless and would make likely awful parents anyway.
I know a few and there's always jealousy involved. Not healthy.
So what if they are childless. Irrelevant. Stay on topic or stop blowing hot air.
@@machtnichtsseimann the purpose of a romantic relationship is to raise functional children. It is also supposed to be fun, but fun is not the main purpose. I don't blame you for not understanding that though since there are very many immature adults in this world.
They are hedonistic people who don’t want responsibility of being a good example of a father!
@@hesmycat - You're saying "The purpose..." is something a rather intellectually and spiritually immature person would say. Especially when offering up a low-resolution attempt at the topic. So, there's that to put in your pipe and smoke.
Very fun stuff
My sister-in-law is in a relationship where she lives with a husband and wife, their daughter, and she sleeps with the husband. It's disgusting to me. 🤢 I met the man, he's a self proclaimed "Alpha male." 😅
I know another couple inwhich the man and woman are married, yet, the morbidly obese wife has affairs. She had an affair to the point of conceiving another man's child while living in a home with her two daughters and her husband. The man even stayed with them for a while. 🤯
My husband can be a bit boring, but I'd take that over either of those insane scenarios.
I argue it like this. If divorce and children out of wedlock are allowed, some minority of men will start a family, ditch and start a second one - maybe even more. It's a form of poly, just separated by time. As long as children out of wedlock or divorce is allowed by law, I'm going to do the optimal thing and start a big family with several women, not separating them by time.
The courts will rip you apart 😂how old are you? 15? 😂
@@467076 I'm not American. Laws are different here when it comes to family court etc. I will face no legal consequences at all in the current system.
Social consequences are different, but I see it as activism. "If you don't like it, make it illegal to have children out of wedlock and make divorce illegal."
I play by the rules and I play to win. Doesn't mean I approve of the rules.
My mom used to argue this all the time. Her dad had many kids from different women but the families hated each cther so she always thought her dad should have just been poly and kept the families together. Still, studies show poly families are unhealthy for women and kids due to jealousy and that woman are biologically wired to begin having a shit ton of miscarriages when living with a certain amount of women. Also step parents are on average not good for raising kids from an evolutionary perspective but I guess if aware people can make it work
I don't commit to a woman that wants more than one man. Might smash but not going to accept everything that comes from being in an actual relationship. When a woman is in a man's life like that, he has less time, less money and more responsibility. I would never accept that if other guys were getting in her guts.
I mostly agree, but I wouldn't give my seed to a Woman who isn't committed to me period.
But as a Christian I believe Men are created to be leaders and it is not the decision of the wife to say whether or not a Man can or can not bring another Wife into the marriage.
Chris i love the last name and I love the podcast brother! lol literally
should have done this study in 2016 in the SF Bay Area
polyamory in the Bay is far far older than 2016...try the late 90s.
The expectation is still strong that one partner is the path forward
Polyamorous people are the flat-earthers of the dating world.
This is funny. Good one.
Or comparatively, the Marxists of the dating world. 😅
Absolutely correct
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Errrh .... in a tribe, those males that can, are responsible for looking after the families of war or hunting deaths.
Not hard to work out really.
The fact is the most successful society is based in the Judeo-Christian model of monogamy. It works, provides stability and a two parent home. Man provides, woman takes what he proves and makes a home.
Everyone talks about it from the man's side, now imagine being the bottom woman in the relationship, where your status is not as high as the other women. The polygamy people like to gloss over those details.
Believe it or not, in my religion of Christianity that follows The Holy Bible: there are laws against treating a Woman less than other Wives (although it was meant for Slaves turned wives, it is a good principle to treat all Women in a marriage equally).
Why is everyone so obsessed with sex nowadays? Don't you want to work on yourself a bit and build your wealth and self worth?
No. Look what that did for Trump and Elon Musk!
Yeah no thanks! I'm far too possessive. I don't even like allowing other people to drive my car.
Recipe for disaster. Definite Nope for me.
For a man it is a biological response to be grossed out by the thought of other men touching the woman we care about
But like The man said when you flip the script it's d*** near the same.
@@sandrasolimine5794 no, women get Jealous. Men get disgusted
@@kenandrieling5885 Not true. I get disgusted with my partner at the sheer thought that they would ever be OK. Was sleeping with somebody other than me. Men and women in terms of psychology and temperament are not as different as the red pill would try to get you to believe
@@sandrasolimine5794 Women should be biologically repulsed by having multiple sex partners. Men are biologically excited by the same thought
@Kenan Drieling That's not how it works. In terms of Psychology and temperament men and women overlap on every single paradigm. It's men like you that would think that women are from a completely different planet. For starters let's take a look at the things that men and women do have in common like the fact that were the same species. So since we're the same species? Is it really that difficult to think that we might actually feel the same way about most topics.
Bloody hell, who would want more than one long-term relationship at a time? Maintaining one properly is hard enough and time-consuming as it is. There is bound to be jealousy and a whole lot of drama. Why would any man want that? Plus the only women who would be up for that are women who would want to have more than one partner too, or very insecure women.
If maintaining a relationship is hard for you, you either have some work to do on yourself or some work to do finding a better fitting partner. My relationship is so low on the list of things that cause me any stress or difficulty it doesn't trigger the scale. It's net positive by a mile.
"the only women who would be up for that ... would want to have more than one partner too" I mean, yeah. Isn't that the point of a romantically open relationship...that it's open?
@@anthonypillarella you're a neglectful partner then. Maintaining a relationship isn't stressful, it's enjoyable, but it's still requires a lot of time and energy
@Radhia Deedou
The stress is that it requires alot of time and energy. It shouldn't require that much effort. It's draining.
Why would anyone want more than one kid? Sure relationships are a lot of work. If they're worth it to you, you happily take it on.
I wonder if polyandry would also be more popular if there was a perceived economic benefit that outweighed being monogamous as well.
Curious to know how you got invited to HBES Chris? Can you join if you’re technically not an evolutionary behavioural researcher?
Thats why you dont put two wivea in the same home
You buy two homes cause those are two diffrent dynamics
@@luxurybuzz3681 if u got the means u can
I would never put up with that bull shit
That's the beauty of the "you do you" philosophy.
You wouldn't put up with non-monogamy. I wouldn't put up with monogamy. Proceed with our lives accordingly.
The average lifespan of earlier humans were in the 30s, because of raids war and famin, and child morality under 5 years old were around 40%
Without polygamy humans could have gone extinct.
Comparing the whole human history monogamy is the exception
But it’s different times now
Non monogamy doesn't really work..messes up distribution.
Almost 50/50 split says it all.
That stat includes monogamous relationships.
I have yet to see this work out for anyone. It’s a segue to divorce.
It's only my own opinion but I believe Monogamy is the best solution for family stability, without that we run the risk of making sex casual and the down sides are numerous in relation to how we see each other in humanity.
I wouldn't give my seed to a Woman who isn't committed to me period.
But as a Christian I believe Men are created to be leaders and it is not the decision of the wife to say whether or not a Man can or can not bring another Wife into the marriage.
But also that Men have a duty to completely take care of and teach as well as lead each Women and child in his marriage, the Women just help but the Man is responsible for everything.
This is not a selfish lifestyle, it is alot of work.
Poligamy and monogamy are both equally valid
Pretending you ate monogamous to trap someone in a marriage with children only to pull the "we are poligamous by nature" is just evil and unforgivable
Find someone that agrees with you from the start
Women will take what they can get from a rich, powerful or famous guy. Guys wil want as many as they can get but the women cant be with someone else. On average multiple partners is no base for long lasting relationships and stable raising of children.
There’s got to be a power dynamic between two women sharing a household, a man, and possibly children. One of them is getting screwed the other not so much.
This is true, you see it in some Muslim families (not in the UK where it’s illegal) that have polygamy. Constant fights over money and inheritance
@@penguinjam9000
If a Muslim man did it, the dynamic is that he gives a house to each on of the two, and the provision of money should be fair.
But most men find it exhausting and hard, so it is only a small minority of men that do it( less than 5 percent in most countries that allow polygyny probably).
But what is much more than this, is that around 20-25 percent of married men in US admitted to having a relationship with another women, and those are the ones who admitted to it, one would expect a higher number, also, people dating isn't included, that will increase the percentage.
So having multiple women is more prevalent in places like US, UK and other liberal countries compared to most countries that allow polygyny.
Why double the drama?
"I know it never works for anyone, but maybe it will work for *us*."
It works for me.
👍🏽
Hunter gatherer societies!? Bru we are in the 21st Century. Come now.
So we’re calling it “non-monogamy” now….🤦♂️
Well, it is the objectively correct term.
@@anthonypillarella yes, and calling a women a birthing person is objectively correct. Yet both are equally absurd distinctions…
@@gregorymoats4007
Men are penis people
whats the real term greg
@@JJ-vp3bd it’s Gregory junior…
Most men just like rooting more than most women
In certain circles on the internet the claim is that "all women will share an Alpha, leaving the Beta with nothing". My guess is that this might be selection bias. Also, women are a lot more sensitive to societal norms than men, so in polygamic societies we'd likely see similar numbers for men but very different numbers for women. If I would guess.
Don't knock it until you try it. The best part is when our gf is out of town, him and I can have a little "special time" with just us bros.
What?!
@@hv3115 ya heard what i said
Ayo!!
Rock on!
Not at all...full stop.
Swaid Vegas
It's just my opinion but I believe Monogamy is the best solution for family stability. Without this we run the risk of making sex casual and the down sides are numerous in relation to how we see each other in humanity. As I understand it some multiple partners usually results in many wives one husband, status or in need for care, poverty and fear along with religous beliefs but aware some make the choice to do this as for them it works. One to one relationships wasn't always the case I believe it is what we evolved into for a good reason.
Each to their own but I don't think open relationships are the answer for cheating relationships.
I think more dating simulators should try the polygamous routes, without the harem ending. That shit is a cop out.
Something like School Days was perfect for that type of dynamic, as your relationships with the heroines don't exist in a vacuum (hint: you're in the same school)
The average lifespan of earlier humans were in the 30s, because of raids war and famin, and child morality under 5 years old were around 40%
Without polygamy humans could have gone extinct.
Comparing the whole human history monogamy is the exception.
But it’s different times now
Years ago, I seriously dated two girls at the same time with their knowledge. Way too much work- dividing my attention and trying to be fair- and, if a superior being like myself can't do that, I certainly wouldn't accept being on the other side of that. Hard no for me.
Polygamy affects the children which a lot of adults seem to ignore.
Many women will tolerate sharing a man who has status so long as she feels she is the favorite.
Many women will not. It’s a tiny fraction that will tolerate it but they also will usually end up resenting that HVM and will have an affair with the gardener. Also that fraction of women that will are typically not what most men describe they’d want in a wife and future mother of their children. RP is lying to you. Bimbos and 304s are the only girls going for that.
Nope, no acceptance for me. No way I’m sharing.
Interesting! I am a polyamorous person I am aware that it is not for everyone but nor is managomus arrangements. Remember because someone told you something is correct does not make it so.
I think non monogamous is ok in some age .. we all want to experience a lot of different thinks when we are young and that end up hurting our couples ( o the other direction ) and then eventually all or some , we will be ready to meet the person who make us realize we are ready to make some deeply connection whit then and our selfs ..
For the streets
@@boblotoldo3051 ??
Non-monogamous and polygamy are not interchangeable - polygamy is just one variety of non-monogamy.
Lumping things together instead of studying the nuances is pretty lazy.
Also, the freeze frame at 8:08 was pretty hilarious when I paused the video to write this.
It’s not lazy. People just don’t care about the nuance
@@TheOlzee Right. It's like taking the time to study all the micro differences in the multitude of different genders etc. If you know it's not right for you, what difference would it make for you to understand the minute differences in each. Lol.
We'll take ENM over monogamy anyday of the week. The people are by far better people, the vacations are by far better, and the marriages are far stronger and by far longer lasting than monogamous relationships.
Look at Destiny who is a very intelligent person but my god the chaos of going through a poly relationship , even if you can handle it, doesn’t sound that enticing.
the host explains it better than the dude that conducted the study ... dude c'mon ...
is he playing with that grip strength thing to hide some stress or is it just an impression?
Remember that UK show that had 1 chick with 5 men? That didn't end well. Edit: The stated and reality are very different. "I think is polygamy is fine..." In reality, he will never do it.
I would like to see a breakdown of men's attitudes towards open relationships by penis size. Is there any statistical difference between men with small, average, and large penises?
Never considered it. What’s your belief on that then?
@@TheOlzee My hypothesis to test with data is that men with smaller penises prefer monogamy more strongly than men with larger penises. I propose that if such were true, that the reason might be that men with smaller penises don't want to compete with men with larger penises any more than they absolutely have to, and thus, they want to effectively own and control their partner.
I'm not saying this is the way things are, only that I've never heard it discussed or analyzed, and that a hypothesis is necessary to test against in the scientific method.
@@brushstroke3733 I don’t think men compete in this way tbh. I mean men with -4” might but outside of this I don’t think it factors in anywhere really.
@@TheOlzee Penis size may not be a factor, but it would at least be nice if researchers considered looking for factors and correlations (not necessarily causations) with attitutes towards monogamy and open relationship. My hypothesis could be totally wrong, or even inverted - perhaps men with smaller penises are more open to sharing their female partners (aka cuckholds.) I'm just saying the discussions could go much deeper if anyone tried to look for correlating factors. Maybe wealth, maybe religion, maybe self reported levels of anxiety or self-worth, maybe other more "objective" measures of success (health, enjoyment of simple pleasures, etc.)
@@brushstroke3733 I don't know about that man. I'm not let's say super well gifted, but I much prefer polyamory and do quite well with it.
Just being hung might get you in the door with a lot of women, but it's not what's going to keep them around for the long haul. The guys who make polyamory work in the long run are the ones willing to put in the work of multiple relationships every day, and it is a hell of a lot of work.
If you have to exercise ownership and control over your partner to keep them around, they're not your partner. They're your thrall, and that situation is only going to last until the second they find a better option. I don't control my partners or seek to, and they don't control me. We choose each other freely every day, and that's a real kind of happiness and security.
Perhaps the reasons for this in a tribe historically was for the perpetuity of their tribe . Being that one man can impregnant many woman. Also there is a male dominated society.
So this is all centred around procreation rather than the actual relationship. Whereas now as you guest said you are focusing on men’s preference for variety of partners . ( which derives biologically for the desire to make sure the species survives)
Perhaps we ought to look at evolution of us as humans. To not base relationships on base desires ?
Rather from a relationship point of view not just sexual .
just because it happened historically does not mean that it should happen still...
Same with the Bonobo fallacy. Their same-sex behaviours are always used to justify sexually progressive ideas being natural and good, but they conveniently ignore the fact that Bonobos routinely slay their young and engage in cannibalism.
Not acceptable.....if she brings it up....its over.
Bringing something up dosen’t mean they’re interested😂
F*&% NO!!!!
We'd better not be accepting of any of this. These people like to play the victim and claim they only want acceptance, but they actively attack monogamy at any opportunity. If they had their way, they would abolish monogamy and marriage from society, and they should not be given a platform so that young naive and impressionable can be convinced. We should platform who speak in favor of monogamy instead, and warn us against these ideologies. And before you think I sound like a conspiracy theorist, I made a series of mistakes when I was young and was in the poly community for a few years. I know how they think and what strategies they use to actively convert others. That was the most painful period of my life, thankfully I realized my mistakes before it was too late.
Yes we're actually building secret detention and re-education centers for people who cling to monogamy!🤣
Wait, what’s H-Fest?
the world is still fighting over Sarah and Hagar!!!!......caution!!!!
Unsurprisingly, men are more accepting of polygamy. If you don't want to commit to one person, don't get married. There's no shame in enjoying the single life.
Harems not a problem in Islam apparently.
Ethical non monagamy is better then.broken promises