John VS Dutch Conversations / Hidden Dialogue /Red Dead Redemption 2
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- Опубліковано 28 сер 2019
- John Marston and Dutch's conversations through out Red Dead Redemption 2.
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Dutch: ungrateful bastard!
Arthur *does all the hunting, supplies the food, medicine, ammo, contributes to the box, upgrades camp, does literally everything in the story and side missions while Dutch reads books in his tent*
cheese toastie Maybe he was also trying to figure out what a plan is?
All in the camp make his part, giving the box money, skins, every shit with valour, but dutch don't make anything
Wymmm Dutch bangs molly all day all night too
but who set up the camp?
and dont forget smoke cigars, and arthur sees that that aint right so he offers to get dutch a pipe since thats what dutch prefers more.
John: "You've lost it Dutch, tell him Arthur"
Arthur: "😳"
BeJay 😂😂
@@kylerichardson402 the ghost in rdr1 is one of the victim in blackwater train.
BeJay 😂
Brugolo Sparefre I thought that was a riverboat.
@@CrungleFunk ...how many girls Dutch shot in the head ?
The fact that John is actually smart. And crazy fearless, it's admirable
I think what terrified Dutch the most is this trait - he can't be tamed, withdrawn and passive, so unpredictable like disappearing for a year with no sign offs or something neither too afraid of repercussions from Dutch or the code.
I relate with John because my dad hates me too with not being a puppet in his own image and without named me Gerald jr. Thank god for my mom though
@@John-fs7oh what
@@hyperpotato1197 John Marston
It's John Marston, mans is the wild west.
Dutch: “you just let me do the thinking ..”
John: “…And I just do the hanging?”
Johns clap backs are top tier 😭😭😭
This is why arthur is the favorite child
@@The_officer_of_videos Nah, Micah's your favourite child
Based af
He's always been savage as hell
Yup💀
"Blackwater was about surviving John"
"Not for that girl it wasn't"
Hot damn John, bars
Funny enough, If you do the mysterious stranger quest in RDR 1, he'll comment about this girl that Dutch killed. That's great character foreshadowing and for people who played the first game
Destroyer2150 I noticed that too. Really cool detail.
Destroyer2150 and then he forgot about her
And when we first see Dutch in red dead redemption, he kills a woman he had taken hostage, if I remember right.
I guess it became an habit...
@@herrwelke1353 John didn't forget, The Strange Man mentioned her by name and John didn't know her name.
Dutch in Chapter 2: "you need to be a better father to Jack, John"
Also Dutch in Chapter 4: "Remember John, the gang comes first"
OMG 😮 I never noticed that!
I mean, Dutch is getting crazier and crazier as the story progresses, so it's either good writing or lazy writing.
He says that in Chapter 1. And he probably was losing his mind from The Blackwater Massacre. Chapters 4, 5, and 6 were his breaking point.
Dutch is literally one of those people who’s ego is so massive he can never admit when he’s wrong, thinks he’s a prophet
@@carlmencia2919 Neither. It's LEGENDARY writing! Dutch is an amazing character.
I have to admit, the reason John was starting to see through all of Dutch's talk and loyalty was because he was in Blackwater. Neither Hosea or Arthur were there to see it, and some part of me thinks that was on purpose. John was first of the gang to realize what Ducth did was just wrong and it worse from there
Arthur simps literally coming up with excuses why John could NOT be smarter than their favourite videogame character now LOL
dude go back to f'n reddit already, holy sh*t man
I also like to think him running away for a year kinda helped change his view on the world
John got to see how much the world was changing in that time, so when he came back he saw how much Dutch was trying to live in the past.
@@rodrigoalbano354 it makes sense. Since all the members through out their lives were fed by dutchs beliefs and ideologys, and while things weren't as strict as we see in rdr2 for for camp (Arthur says that things were looser back then) obviously John leaving the gang and seeing the world changing without Dutch and the others on his back helped him realise that the West was dying and that the idea of outlaws wasn't going to last longer.
1:44 tells us why he doubts like you said.
This is why this is a setup for rdr3.
On a mission in rdr1 Abigail said that Jhonn was the first one to see that the whole gang was falling apart, i tought she was wrong by the first one being Arthur but by seeing these conversations I realize that Jhonn really did see it before anyone else did.
I personally think John knew it right after the blackwater heist, and Hosea knew it from early on as well. I would say Arthur kept trusting dutch throughout the entire game, he only realized it when he was left for dead by him.
I still think Arthur saw it first because of the conversation he has with john in valentine during the sheep rustling mission on the way to the gun store. He tells john that the times of gangs and the wild west was basically over. John caught on during that conversation in my eyes
@@axelayalajimenez5324 all the camp conversations of this video prove that John doubted Dutch before the beginning of the game, when the Blackwater heist happened. He was the very first member of the camp that knew Micah and Dutch committed many mistakes and terrible actions.
@@rafogameplays3321 i respecfully disagree
Actually, this is arguably true. Arthur tells Hosia in the hunting mission, really early on, that John left the gang for a year and wasn't punished not that leaving your son is one thing, but the 'code' and he literally valued staying in above family and so on. John had his conflicts, passively tells everyone he's in, keeps to himself, then tells Dutch constantly that he is losing it. Arthur tells him the lifestyle is going to be over. There is a difference, when someone saying cowboy lifestyle is ending and civilization is creeping in, and someone saying you're 'ending' and your decline is near. Also, most of the views about John are really from the people we can say inside the cult! Arthur's journal isn't a factual info, and so many of other character's statements. It's understandable when in a cult you see someone slipping or doubting, the ones together will call that person 'defiant' or 'fool' for not seeing their 'truth'. The faith Dutch asks of them. But once out they really start to see what that person was seeing behind the clouds there's new skies. I think they depicted him depressed during the comeback to the gang, and once the Beecher Hope run starts, you see him develop free. Arthur was awakened by TB and a crawling death bed that made him realize the fallacies with their cult and Dutch's shortsightedness.
"This is Micah's doing. I know it."
*Silence*
He has no response because Arthur's right.
He knows, he just don't wonna admit it
Good that lead gut got fucked by john and dutch
This is a perfect example why you don't surround yourself with only yes men. But also people who are not afraid to say their two cents.
Pride comes before a downfall. A haughty spirit will come to a fall.
@@BronzeFelix His ego won't let him admit it, even when Arthur was dying at his feet. Even if Dutch regrouped with the others after Butcher Creek (aside from Micah), I guarantee his paranoia led to him eventually become hostile with Bill and Javier as well, which also likely led them to abandon Dutch at some point.
Dutch and John have heated confrontation frought with tension
Bill: I wish I had a scar 4:11
Lmaooo
He's thinking about the scar better than the real problem 😂
I mean, he eventually got one in rdr1. A gunshot to the head.
His wish became true
Bill mentions Dutch saying John was am arrogant SoaB, that's the part when he said it
Micah just casually calling arthur black lung while dutch and john are arguing LMFAO 11:03
Too funny
Micah funny asf 😂
*”BlAcK LuNg”*
Shit had me rollin 😂
so straightforward "blank bunk."
Interesting how John puts himself down and stays humble in both games, when he's quite well learned and socially intelligent. Not ignorant, hateful, or dishonest in the slightest. Even Arthur had a tinge of cynicism and the baggage he carried. John really was the best of them in the end.
i think he got that from Arthur too, Arthur always degrade himself calling himself ugly, nasty and dumb.
Maybe a little bit but that's just who John is
@@wasabi5338sure, everything about John is from Arthur one way or another.
John was the smartest out of all of them. He just wasn’t wise until rdr1
@@wasabi5338No, John was written before Arthur. Theres also a difference between self deprecation and humility.
*Anyone in camp having a private conversation*
Arthur: 👁 👃 👁
How the hell did I get 12k likes? 🤣
Lol totally. Arthur is a complete snoop but he bankrolls them all so they tolerate his weird ass.
Arthur has mastered the art of standing still he must have learned it from Drax
@@titanictimmyhistorian6140 "watch" *slowly raises stew spoon into mouth*
I just like to think Arthur just stands there, wide eyed, mouth slightly agape, drooling.
He has the cloak and dagger from tf2
1:04 *John notice before us all, he warned us. But we didnt listen...*
Uncle was the same way, he definitely noticed it before John
They all noticed but they couldn't just leave the gang
That’s why it’s silly whenever I hear someone say that Arthur is the reason John woke up. Arthur helped John and gave him the means to leave the gang but he definitely did not cause John to question Dutch. John was waking up to Dutch’s poor decisions before Arthur was. Take the conversation between them as he and Arthur are riding to Shady Belle to scout it out for the first time. John clearly expresses doubts about Dutch and his plans and Arthur is still defending him and telling John to keep faith in him and not overthink it.
@@erronmorgan993 Uncle seen through his ass. Some of the sly remarks he'd make made you think he may have been in that mans head the way he read him like a book
@@Dagger_323 👍🏻
The amount of dialogue that these guys had to record is absolutely insane. I've literally never heard any of this and I've done three playthroughs on both PS4 and PC.
The voice actors worked on the game for about 5-6 years, so they really did a shitload of dialogue
@@lordomani9451 mo cap
@@ReaIly yeah. They did mocap. Everybody knows that. They also recorded a good portion if not most of their dialogue in a booth.
You’ve beat this game 6 times dude? That’s too much lol.
@@GHotSauceAnd1 That does not mean three each...
You can really see the gradual buildup of hostility between John and Dutch as the story goes on.
Kinda sucks they have hostility at the first camp tho, I wish they saved it for the last few chapters. You don’t really get to see much of a bond so it doesn’t add much to the RDR1 story in terms of his loss of Dutch
John was not only smart but he was pretty blunt with his words too, he struck Dutch's ego pretty hard by snapping him into reality too many times while others like Arthur and Hosea were less blunt and more pleading when trying to see Dutch to make sense.
This explains why Dutch slowly started to hate John reaching its peak by Chapter 4’s end, he was too smart to be manipulated and that’s why Dutch decided to leave him behind on two occasions when he could have easily saved him.
I really like how John is doubting Dutch the whole game because of what happens at black water. Yes Arthur has his doubts a little but trusts him mainly because Hosea trusts him and according to his journal he admits to loving Hosea more than Dutch. After Hosea was killed and Arthur got really sick was he finally able to see that John is right. It's a well crafted story.
I think the main reason why is that John saw Dutch and Micah on the ferry. Arthur wasn't present for it and had no idea how far Dutch had gone. If Arthur and Hosea SAW Dutch kill the girl then they would immediately begin to question what sort of man Dutch was.
@@sohflipz4439 what girl?
Mohammed Muhi Uddin in blackwater Dutch shot a girl for no reason, either in the heat of the moment or on purpose.
Arthur liked Hosea like a father. He even say he is "his dead father". Dutch is something else. But he still sticks to him until the very end in a way. John was always more of a rebelling type.
Liking not loving Arthur ain't gay
Dutch : Tahi-
John : *Angry outlaw noises*
Im sure your Arthur was shot in the head at the end
@@kermitthefrog5450 lmao 😂💀
“What is your goddamn plan Dutch! Tahiti? Timbuktu?”
@@kermitthefrog5450 why you only played the only low honor virson if you had high honor the last thing he see is the sunrise
@@kermitthefrog5450 bro I’m on my 37 play through and I haven’t had bad honor
Dutch's problem in every aspect of this story is that he thinks he's the master manipulator, but every single time something goes wrong in the story, it's because someone else was able to manipulate him. Blackwater was obviously a trap which in my opinion was set up by Micah and the Pinkertons. Valentine went to shit because they robbed Cornwall unnecessarily. Rhodes turned to shit because he thought he could manipulate Colm, the Braithwaites and the Grays. He thought he could manipulate Bronte. And finally, he thought he could manipulate the Wapiti, the Pinkertons, and the U.S. Government at the same time with Micah making him his puppet. In the end, he was his enemies' puppet because he never thought it was possible for him to be manipulated the way he manipulated others.
Very well noticed. Seams to me Dutch kept biting on the piece what he can't swallow. And apparently losing his mind in selfdelusions, falling into abyss and dragging the whole gang with him. Trully a sad, sad tale. And the best story plot I witnessed in the games so far.
He was a clueless lunatic.
Also interesting to note that Dutch tried con Hosea and Hosea tried to con Dutch and that's how they became acquainted with each other
Micah didn't get picked up till after Guarma, though?
Micah wasn’t a rat until after Guarma. Blackwater was definitely fishy, but it wasn’t Micah. Not yet
John had abandonment issues that’s why he questions everything and everyone it’s a defense technique he’s one of the only ones who thinks before and after blindly following orders that’s why Dutch left him for dead twice
This is so true even in body language, like if you walk behind him for a second, he'd tilt and ask are you following or something or looks back suspiciously unlike others. It's like he was never at peace or felt safe even in the camp.
@@TOT777SOS he’s always nervous and unsure of everything that’s why they say he’s “smart” or “Dutch’s favorite “ because he questions everything and talks back
😂
@@KyleEvra I was confused I thought the trans flag in your name was your comment until I clicked the notification 😂
Second was the train , what was the first one ?
Bill: “I wish I had a scar” that is such a “bill” thing to say😂😂😂
He meant someone who loved him.
at that point all they had to say is "You got scars bro, its ya past." wouldve gave him the correct boost for motivation.
I would give him scars
I know I couldn’t stop laughing he was like a big child 😂😂
Fun fact: He’s Gae
11:09 OMG I almost died laughing. Dutch and John are having a serious conversation and Micah's casually like: ''black lung''
Same. Had me rolling.
I laughed so much
Yeah, he just slipped that in there, didn't he? 😂
I encountered the first one yesterday
Uncle? Lumbago
Micah? Black Lung
Hotel? Trivago
One thing that’s really important to notice is how the language changes in the camp dialogue. In the last camp, Dutch talks to everyone like they’re his soldiers, not his family like in the earlier chapters. Javier calls Dutch “boss” and plays the dutiful lapdog along with bill and Micah. Just another testament to how spectacular the writing in this game is.
I didn't think it was that great, but that's me.
@@father3dollarbill playing devils advocate over here nobody cares
@@angryanakin hilarious how all you fanboys will attack any opinion different to yours. Exactly like a cult and/or brainwashing.
@@father3dollarbill everybody likes RDR2 and if you say you don’t you’re lying
@@angryanakin see, you didn't get it. The game's great and I enjoy it a lot, still.
I'm just the guy that points out the flaws, so who knows, they can fix it. Make the next one better, even.
“You realized the truth first John and they hated you for it”-Abigail 1911. He saw Dutch murder Heidi McCourt on the Blackwater ferry. He knew just how far Dutch was falling apart. He saw the man who raised him like a son shoot an innocent woman in the face. Arthur didn’t see that so he didn’t see it first hand. As by this video you can see all the hidden dialogue that goes back to the rdr1 quote above. And people want to call John dumb. I love Arthur and John practically the same but it just pisses me off that ever since Arthur was created everyone acts like John is just this dumb. Arthur wannabe.
John came first.
He is the first protagonist.
I believe the epilogue didn’t help with the “arthur wannabe” allegations.
Mans doesn’t even have his own original model. Its just Arthur with johns face.
Nobody thinks that, okay Dutch lmao
Hosea was the first
John isn't dumb, nor is he portrayed as dumb. He's just portrayed as a guy with no manhood.
riding through the swamps my horse: 11:30
Or dickhead gators...
I dont know why but I heard this 100 time and one of this time i heard that Dutch said GODDAMN STAKES))
"Eeeeeasy boy, easy!"
for me its *MOTHA FUCKIN GATORS!!!*
*G O D D A M N S N A K E S*
Makes me laugh how John gets uncomfortable or upset when Dutch gets closer to him. It's like he's thinking : Uugh He's coming again
Yup, the body language on him speaks volumes. He like...cringes away from him.
Out of all of the members in the camp, it's quite obvious that John is getting sickened by Dutch since the beginning and he's prettt much the one that doubts Dutch the most
he's coming again..context bro
The part that made me notice it was when John closes what he's reading and doesn't open it again until Dutch walks off. Doesn't want him to get close to any part of his life that he *can* keep him out of.
" B not now"
7:42 The way John gets up like he’s been thinking and he can’t put it to rest, so he snaps and he goes over to Dutch, but the approach reminds me of a teenage boy who feels wronged by his father begging for answers. He’s angry, accusatory, but more than that he’s confused and hurt. He almost has a tone in his voice that comes across as pleading, asking “Why?”.He’d held onto his doubts for months at this point, but the entire Sisika ordeal was the last straw for John, rightly so.
Yeah, John has been faithful and loyal to Dutch for enough time . Unfortunately , Arthur was too far into it unlike John 😢
I think the Heidi McCourt and Blackwater situation is what really drove John away from Dutch. At the campfire during the Clemens Point chapter of the game, John talks about how the death of the girl really disturbed him. I think he realized Dutch didn’t know what he was doing once black water turns to shit, and that’s why his attitude towards him is bad even at the beginning during chapter 1.
He should've left him then.
@@father3dollarbillhe did for a whole year
I think Dutch shot her the same way he killed the girl in the bank in the first game, a brutal distraction tactic to buy them a few seconds to escape the ferry heist
@@drewten Even the way John reacts implies that. He tries to tell him to go easy as Dutch talks and gets more desperate, almost like he's seen it before
@@Gecko_Zen yeah but i think that was before blackwater. they immediately left blackwater into the grizzlies and that's when the story for rdr2 starts.
You havent seen passive aggressive until you've seen dutch interact with john
See him interact with Uncle and Lenny
@@solitary2 seems like when Dutch is proven wrong he starts to get aggressive
Thats how narcists work..amd dutch is a massive narcist from the start...and was going downhill from the start of rd2... it was obvious more and more that be was only working for himself ans manipulating and using everyone for his own benefit. Another typical narcist thing: acusing others of things you are doing to them.
AND it's so obvious that Micah was a Mule....from the start he worked with the pinkertons and tried to hide behind accusing john and arthur being traitors.
Dutch has such a complex character, that it's very hard to say weather he genuinely cared for the gang before he started going insane, or was he always like that and just ended up showing his true colours in the end. There is one thing that's obvious though, and that's Dutch's massive ego; he always wants people to blindly obey him, he always thinks he's right, he never ever admits his mistakes, and always immediately comes up with a new reckless plan after the old one fails. If you're a good boot licker, then you can be Dutch's favorite. Micah capitalized on this perfectly by filling Dutch's ears with lies whilst constantly feeding his ego and telling him what he wants to hear. Arthur and John on the other hand genuinely cared for Dutch. They were loyal, but honest, and they'd tell Dutch what he needs to hear as opposed to what he wants to hear, hence why Dutch, who was essentially a narcissist, took Micah's side.
People often jokingly call John dumb, but he was always the smartest in the gang, he was the first one to pick up on Dutch's insanity, he was the first one to doubt, and he was the first one to admit that Dutch had lost his head. John was smart, but immature in 1899, and in RDR1 he was both smart and wise.
Ikr Dutch is an awesome character
100% agree
The great thing about the game is that you could try to interpret it by how you played the game. Like how if you play as Arthur. If he was all good for the whole game, you could see him as a good man who only did bad things because that’s all he ever knew how to do. It would fit with what Rains Fall said about how a person can never really change but rather become more of who they truly are. If he’s bad for half of it, then you could say that he did change. Now with Dutch, either he’s a good man who went crazy or was always a bad man who arguably used to do good things. You could see that John had the mindset of him just becoming more of who he truly was but then his opinion on him seem to have changed in RDR1 where he thinks he was a good man who went crazy. Dutch loved the Wild West where everyone could live free and didn’t want to give up on those days coming to a close. It’s like when a kid doesn’t want to admit that their childhood days are over or when an old man doesn’t want to admit that their glory days are over. Dutch was afraid of that change and knew it was coming. He also knew that his actions aren’t going to be forgiven either and that he was going to die for it.
@@Deathpool_04
Dutch was probably a good man to begin with. He just had a huge ego, and he had this huge desire to bring the old West back like you've mentioned; he had the pressure of the entire gang on him, he may have wished good for everyone, but his ego and extreme desire to be right and flawless all the time got the better of him, so much so, that instead of planning on what's best for each gang member and acknowledging the truth about the new world, he just kept lying to himself, he kept living in denial, he kept on living in these fantasies and dreamland, which led to the downfall of the gang, all because of his huge ego, and unwillingness to admit his mistakes.
In his final encounter with John, he at last comes at peace with everything, at last he sees the truth, and realizes that all the bloodshed he did over the years, all the bad things he did that ruined the gang, all of that was pointless. After realizing how wrong he was, he warns John about the corrupt government and commits suicide by jumping of a cliff, finally dying in peace.
Aziz Quadri I don’t know. Like I said, it depends on how you interpret the story. To me, I think he was a “good enough” person and may have used his nature for good in the glory days of the Wild West. In those days, he was seemingly more honorable and was apparently a “better person” I guess. According to what John said in RDR1, the gang was like a Robin Hood type gang where they took from people who didn’t need things and gave it to people who needed it more. This wasn’t seen as much in RDR2 since the story was about its downfall than how they were worked in the Wild West days. It apparently started to change on whatever happened at Blackwater. Before that, there didn’t seem to be any problems. He didn’t do anything about John leaving for like a year. Anyway, he also hated Colm, his gang, and the gangs that were like them who weren’t as honorable. Colm not really caring about who was in his gang but rather the numbers. It’s just unfortunate that Dutch eventually turned out the way they did. He became the very thing he supposedly hated. He may have thought that John was the rat too and another thing that didn’t help was that John eventually had to hunt him down in RDR1 which John was forced to do so. On the subject of John, his approach to fight change was from a different perspective. John wanted to adapt to the new civilized world while Dutch knew that it was pointless to fight his own nature. Still, I don’t think he really planned on going to Tahiti. Dutch may have wanted to keep the others as long as he could because he still cared about them. It’s just weird how he does that yet tries to leave people to die when he could’ve. I do think that in the end, he did care about Arthur and Arthur was able to get through to him one last time when he got Dutch to leave Micah. Then later on, we see him try to kill Micah himself and he was actually there to kill him. After time to process everything and got the news of Micah being in the mountains like Sadie did, he went there to kill him. He didn’t kill John or take the money either when he could’ve.
I think you are right that he did end up making peace with himself. He didn’t get his redemption or anything but yeah, I think he did make peace with himself. Jack avenged Dutch when he killed Ross too.
It's amazing how they portrayed Dutch's narcissistic personality in this game. It's clear from the beginning for everyone that has ever dealt with narcissists that Dutch has all of the traits.
Indeed.
It’s such an incredibly realistic depiction of a manipulative narcissist, he actually shows great moments of leadership and relatability that make it so understandable why people are willing to follow him.
He’s willing to seemingly risk his life for others, but only when his own pride is on the line. He genuinely cared for everyone in the gang, but only so long as they saw him as he saw himself.
The most realistic thing about him is that he doesn’t even realise how much he’s manipulating even himself,
He was never charming to me. His false bravado and delusional arrogance was off putting.
@@jacobthomas7322 Same, I hated Dutch's attitude from the very beginning lmao
Yuuuup. Irked me from the very first speech at the very very beginning of the game.
3:47 "Dutch always said you were an arrogant son of a bitch" That's what Bill says in RDR1 and here we see that he really said it. Amazing.
Woah, never would've noticed that if you hadn't pointed it out
And he actually said it in front of bill
“We all get caught eventually, John. I guess the trick is to decide by who.”
Such an interesting line considering who finally catches Dutch in the end.
Gravity?
@@Gabriel-mr5kr Well, Damn.
@@Gabriel-mr5kr lol
@@Gabriel-mr5kr fax
the ground?
Sad how the gang deteriorates overtime... from a good trusting gang, to liars and double crossers.
W0LF B3AT5 it weren't us who changed...it were him
All it took was Hosea's and Lenny's death
Micah was the issue..
@@phillipwalling7470 Yup.
The Man With No Name Micah was the one giving Dutch all these crazy ideas, like the ferry in black water, the parley with Colm O’driscoll, robbing both the grays and the braithwaits. So in my own opinion, I blame Micah...
5:48
I love how you can clearly see how Dutch slowly changes throughout the game. Earlier in the vid, Dutch was telling John to start caring about Jack and Abigail when he was doubting himself. Yet here when John is starting to become a family man, Dutch tries telling him that the gang comes first- no, HE comes first.
I think its because Dutch was getting paranoid around this time and maybe felt John might prioritize his family over the gang, as in dont you dare betray ME to save yourself and your family. I feel like by this point Micah was starting to get to Dutch on top of his growing paranoia, turning him against a close a friend with a shaky relationship to start weakening Dutch.
Thats my take
John Marston will always be one of my favorite video game characters of all time. Maybe it's his voice, or he's the og RDR protagonist or maybe just I find him badass, I also love to see him acting wise from time to time (namely in rdr 1)
Because we are all Johns in a way, confused, alone 😂
4:17
Dutch and John about to have a conversation
Arthur:🏃🏽♂️🏃🏽♂️🏃🏽♂️
Edit: Thank you for all the likes on this purely original comment I know some comments on here can’t say the same 👁👃🏼👁
xD
OUTTA THE DAMN WAY
I like to imagine John and Dutch talking, and they just hear loud stomping in the background, only to turn around and see Arthur hiiding behind a tree, breathing heavily.
@@six6245 lol
Pluh lol
Arthur sees Dutch walking to John
Arthur: YAY CHAOS
4:18
Arthur Morgan the silent sneaky dude who keeps on being silent Everytime Dutch talks to him
no its 10:53
@@sauce6746 lmao dutchs doing a stone cold stomp towards john
@@therealdutchvanderlinde3124 lol
Lol he's just breathing down there necks
Now I've seen why Dutch didn't want to rescue John soon. John kept on questioning Dutch's authorities. I'm really amazed at the psychological development of the characters.
Fun to see how bill tries to mock John for “being tough” with his scars in the first place and then ends up saying that he wants them too, like a child telling that ”aw I wanna be a fireman too when I grow up”😭
11:10
John: “Grit? That what you call this!”
Micah: “Black lung”
I dont know why but that made me laugh
@@halolasomaster3900 fax
@@halolasomaster3900 I like youre name haha
Shit had me dying
I laugh at that moment
Dutch: You want to be the general? You don't have the grit!
John: Grit? That what you call this?!
Micah: Black Lung 11:13
György Lukúcks that was so random yet funny
😁
Micah trying to make this kinda shouting be the norm lol
B L A C K L U N G
Lmaooo
What I truly love about these camp conversations is that at the end they always acknowledge Arthur watching them and you even have an option of responding. Its these kinds of details that make this game truly something special. I mean they could have just played them like a small cutscene but they always make them interactive so that the world seems more alive.
I do like how Javier admits that he's getting scared and thinks that the best choice might be to scatter and make themselves scarce. He isn't doubting Dutch, he's loyal to him to a fault, but he understands that sticking together in one place is only going to draw more attention to them and might get them killed. He doesn't want to betray Dutch's trust, and he won't, but even he can see that what they're doing by Chapter 6 is stupid.
Yeah but unfortunately he was blinded by loyalty too much, especially after Dutch rescued him in Guarma.
which is funny because they all ultimately scattered after Arthur's death. Also, Dutch would be the last person to want the gang to scatter since he has the highest bounty.
You can really see Dutch getting worried about John leaving him for his family. Arthur was mad about that too, but he wasn't paranoid about it.
Arthur actually wants John to leave with his family, not John leave his family. Dutch on the other hand doesn’t want John and his family or even the gang members to leave since it will ruin his ego of inspiring people. He desires obedience, not loyalty.
@@enriquepowers I think he was refering to earlier in the game, where arthur had a grudge against john for leaving the group for a year. He only wants john to leave with his family until dutch and micah start losing it
@@caligulamaximus6186 He worded it incorrectly though. He said Arthur was also mad that John was gonna leave them for his family when that wasn't the case as you just stated
Real life is filled with Micahs 😑
The Thoro Network in the real world Arthurs (high honor) and Johns are either never known or ridiculed. Micahs are praised and the rest are just Bills
The character of John is genious. Arthur always thought, that Dutch slowly started to lose his mind, like everyone else in the camp, but John... Right from Blackwater, he realised who Dutch is. He realised, that Dutch always was manipulating them. That's why Dutch couldn't get in his head, because John was the only one who knew the truth.
Dutch actually believes his own bullshit though, that’s why he’s such a good character. John can see through Dutch in ways he can’t even see himself.
Genius* the irony shouldn't be lost on you
As good as these conversations are, I have to call attention to Javier. He’s such an amazing character, especially when you examine his role in the gang and his stance when it starts to split up. He’s sensible, he wants to do the right thing. But he can’t just go against the gang that took him in. In the big final confrontation, Javier is the only one to never point his gun at Arthur.
Even if he didn’t point it at them he would still fire at them
@@JohnCunningham-jf9iv he doesn't even fire at them, him and Bill run off when the pinkertons show up and don't chase John or Arthur.
People keep repeating that. But he point his gun at them. And even if he didn’t he sides with the people who do.
I mean sure he didn’t aim his gun at them, But he’s still chose his side and basically sealed his fate
I hate when people bring up this point, because he did actually aim him gun at Arthur at the last second right before the Pinkertons showed up. Pay attention people
6:33
Bill: "Good cup of coffee always gets the guts going."
Hosea: "The perfect image to start my day..."
I love that.
Awe man I miss Hosea.
Hosea was a wise man
Goddamn that's great. Haha.
Rockstar humor at it’s finest haha.
John was the earliest, most outspoken doubter and at times Dutch seemed barely able to disguise his dislike towards his rebellious attitude. When John was captured at St. Denis I think a part of Dutch was secretly glad to be rid of him which is why he didn't show an urgency in getting him back.
I think I figured something out. Dutch realized the Pinkertons wanted him, so he tried to keep the gang together to because he would be doomed alone. He needed his gang to protect him and eventually make enough money to escape. The gang would have survived even if they didn’t stick together because the government didn’t want them, so he enforced the idea that they would be safe if they stayed togather.
@@marlinchen6315i mean your right but also wrong you can see in rdr1 that it was never gonna end they just would ahve found another monster what the line from joesy wales “ doing right aint got no end “ they will keep coming until the kill everything that even vaguely opposes them good or bad
The fuck he would most certainly NOT be doomed alone lmfao the man survived 12 years after the gang collapsed doing the exact same shit and the ONLY reason he was caught was because he was hunted down by john who dutch genuinely didn’t want to kill hence why he didn’t kill john when he shot the binoculars…which btw was an impossible shot irl and he did it with barely any time to aim so dutch is hands down one of the most lethal characters to ever live and could prosper just fine
Now while he would of survived in his own, the first two times the pinkertons came they chose peace due to women and children in the area, without the women and without the children it can easily become a war on camp, which happened at the last chapter when it was only men present.
Bill Williamson: "I wish I had a scar.. :("
Awwwh, Billy-boy. :(
Don't worry, John'll put a few scars in you, depending how many bullets he fires in Mexico.
Aw 268th like :(
@@eddiecowen2624 269 😎
Or reyes. If john fails to shoot bill, reyes does it
@@johnLennon255 or if he shoots allende
It funny seeing Bill in RDR2 the way he is. He's not as intelligent as John or Dutch, and the way he is in RDR1 is kind of tragic as he's manipulated by Dutch. Same goes for Javier.
4:37 "if we stick together" gives Arthur the death stare😂
😂😂
🤣
Sometimes in game i wanted to say what i had to say to dutch. I would've made him see 2 feet in fucking front of him
Nasbuscus 14 what?
@@devilous_4374 He would've hit him in the face.
It's amazing how John was right all along and Dutch resented him because he knew the truth
These convos are probably why Dutch left John behind in chapter 4. John was very open about questioning Dutch, and Dutch was just trying to rid of a possible mutiny. Course that didn't work, and John survived. When John came back alive, it showed to everyone that Dutch can't keep the rules and that he left a member behind, adding another reason for Dutch to go off the deep end. Fantastic story telling.
Dutch: I aint never gonna leave you son
Also Dutch: *leaves John for dead like 3 times*
Good catch
He left Arthur also
@@chief5604 and Abigail
John got left by Dutch in saint denis, and then he got left by the gang during the train robbery, and then John and Arthur got left for dead at beaver hollow.
@@lumbagoboi1649 and got left at the bank heist and at siska
Wow that's crazy. John knew it from the very beginning. He saw it before everyone else. Masterful foreshadowing, it really fits his character too.
It really does thats definitely my 3rd favorite trait about him
the realism he carries with him is just amazing
well Hosea as well
He knew the truth and everyone hated him for it
No wonder he wasn't around much
Well he did witness all of that shit firsthand. Arthur realised it only after their trip to Guarma. Arthur and Hosea wasnt present during the ferry job
"We all get caught eventually John, i guess the trick is to decide by who". WOW WHAT A WORDS! And he lived by it, running away for the rest of his life and surrendering only to John himself.
he surrendered to the cliffside that caught him
The first game makes that line so creepy...
That 6:36 “I know you”
Is like Dutch saying;
“I know you can see through me”
Exactly!
When you meet the guy who was bitten by a snake for 50th time in 1 hour 11:30
That guy is so annoying.
Also, no matter how many times you suck the poison out, he will say that "you saved him 2 times", and then Arthur will say "never again"... I saved him 11 freaking times!
Nearly pissed my self lol
He just wants that arthur succ
CroatiaMati _ after awhile I just shot him to hell with honor I ain’t suckin off another man
I thought you fell off a cliff dutch.
I'd like to think Arthurs standing there, mouth agape breathing loudly, drool dripping down his chin and onto his shirt, just staring at the people having the conversation. His body completely still almost to the point were you'd think he was dead if it weren't for the breathing.
There's an image
bruh
The art of staying so incredibly still... And you know the rest.
The perfect image to start my day
Arthur The Destroyer: I've mastered the ability of standing so incredibly still, that I become invisible to the eye. Watch.
The Gang: You're eating a stew.
Arthur The Destroyer: But my movement... Is so slow... That it's imperceptible.
it pains me so much to think how hurt arthur must’ve felt hearing those words from the person who literally raised him.
all i can think about is how this resembles real manipulative parents, acting like their sons owe something to them just because they’re the parents. this dynamic is well studied on rdr2 and its so crazy to even have the chance to get this kinda inside on what the interactions with dutch were like after he drops the motivational preacher curtain.
he treats the whole gang like they own everything to him just because he helped them. and ofc he always reached for those who NEEDED that help. nobody would say no to his generous hands, thus feeding his god complex. he can brag about how good he is to everyone all he want without fear, because he knows how easily he can take everything away from the gang (remember how he literally keeps the gang saves to himself and no one knows what the hell he does with that money).
it bugged him seeing john having an actual family and that he had the strength to be independent and free from him, so he needed to humble him every time reminding him how he raised him and all that crap while at the same time doubting his loyalty.
i dont think dutch was honest a single time in this entire storyline. he was always two faced with everybody and mostly, to himself. he was so insecure that he needed to question and remind everyone his position as their savior any chance he had.
if he was ever a good person, we will never see that.
Some of these earlier camp interactions show off Dutchs real pertsonality far earlier than the main story does. Outside of this mistake with killing that woman on the boat he seems to be a good leader with just a run of bad luck. Then around Saint Denis you really, really start to see Dutch crack. But these earlier interactions, like when Uncle calls him out as a King and them being his loyal subjects, his interactions between Molly and Mary beth, and other various random dialogues. It shows his true personality. Subtly manipulating everyone, empty promises, grand standing to keep people hopeful and in line, a rage beneath his seemingly calm and cool exterior and a liar avoiding hard questions with pretty words and basic answers.
John doubts through out the game, but he generally keeps it to himself in missions until later. He doubts because he was there, he saw Dutch truly come out for a moment, Arthur didn't. He might get stories from others, others saying he killed a woman in a bad way. But he didn't see it and experience it first hand. It takes so much for Arthur to begin to see it, most specifically when they see him kill the italian guy and feed him to gators and the woman on Guarma. Those two events I think really removed the rose tinted glasses for Dutch. Sure he'd seen Dutch beginning to show signs, but those two moments truly opened his eyes to what Dutch was and was capable of.
But these scenes really show how Dutchs paranoia.... even early on is present. Seemingly noticing John has a sort of family within the family. And then the 'doubt, yes dutch' scene. He is trying so hard to beat John down and make him compliant, to compel blind loyalty. That scene is out on the dock, theoretically away from everyone else so Dutchs rage very briefly comes out scolding John for having a doubt at all. And he continues to pressure John to stop thinking, just listen to his words, nod and agree. And as time goes on and John doesn't do that Dutch begins to see him as the traitor, or a doubter, or corruptor of others. When in reality his own actions, every step of the way have worsened the situation. Aggressively robbing Cornwall too much, trying to play both families, trying to manipulate Bronte. Every step of the way Dutch thought he was smarter than everyone else and it made him not realize they were about to be tricked again and again. But he can't admit that to himself so blames someone else for their problems. The lucky one, the one who didn't die in the bank robbery. The one who doubted, the one with an open mind supposedly corrupting others.
And the one with Javier. I don't think he's ever called Javier 'son'. He purposely trying to make a jab at John, to show he's not favoured and in the family anymore. A cruel and final attempt to make John realize his 'mistakes'
Very good!
I didn't have a problem with Bronte dying tbf
Respect to John for always calling Dutch out on his bs. He knew and everyone else knew John was a smart one even back then. That’s why they call him arrogant and “Golden Boy”. John could’ve fared well by himself. John was the only mind and soul in the camp Dutch couldn’t manipulate and shape into what he wanted and it ate at him and bothered him so bad that John was such an individual which is why you see all these cutscenes of Dutch trying to “reassure” himself and “test” him.
This is exactly why I hate it when people say John is stupid. Maybe he’s not some Einstein but John is very wise.
Hosea isn't brainwashed either, on multiple accounts he says hes losing faith and that dutch is losing it.
@@marsman676 He's street smart. Something I think Arthur and Hosea had rubbed off on him. He's just gotten himself in rather stupid situations. And needs saving every now and again
"Insist" -Dutch, Chapter 6
@@vodago he just stays with the gang because he has no where else to go and he also knows his road is coming to an end. So there's no point in running
Dutch: I ain’t ever gonna leave you son
John: Ok
Dutch like 12 hours later: *leaves John not once but twice*
What do you mean that was like 3 chapters later
He said He Had a plan
@@tracyrae4854 well 12 hours for us
@@jonalex9002 I do have a PLAN
@@dutchvanderlinde2271 i know man, Arthur did you wrong, he was always on your back , questioning your methods, he didn't trust you enough and micha use that like a weapon to turn you against other
This honestly shows the true nature of Dutch, right from the beginning. He's trying his hardest to regain John's trust because Dutch needs it, thrives off of it, but John sees right through him. I just wish I could have seen most of these during any of my playthroughs
I love how at the start, Arthur thinks of John as the "Golden boy gone yellow"
And at the end, Bill Javier Micah and Dutch all see Arthur as the same thing.
“We run, they’ll pick us off, one weak, desperate fool after the other. Ain’t that so John?”
Holy shit chills.
oTOYOTo Rockstar is amazing at story telling. Foreshadowing the future because that’s what John exactly does in RDR1.
"I guess we'll find out then"
“Don’t forget who you are John.” Dutch literally just gaslighting John to make him do what he wants. Dutch doesn't feel secure unless he can control other people, and I think that's prevalent throughout the whole story. People say he doesn't go crazy until chapter 4, but I think he always was, it was just hidden under his charisma and ego. He's a cult of personality, and when everyone starts realizing he's not the image they've made him, he gets angry and digs himself into a deeper and deeper hole
But he has a plan
yeah you're right
@@anotheryoutubeaccount5259 Shoore.
@@comradeskipper5232 You don't have much faith.
@@likeicareusewe Really, what is it with all these traitors?
3:30 I like how they reincorporated John's "I didn't get these scars by falling over in Church." line from the first Red Dead Redemption.
“Blackwater was about surviving, John.”
“Not for that girl it weren’t.”
Damn, John just cuts through the bullshit
" I didnt get these scars falling over in church" that the same line john sad to jack on rdr1
I know. When he rescued Jack from that bear.
Mrbossftw
An who are you?
@@pinkertonagentmilton9074 That's Rip Van Winkle
@@MrMonkeMan141 mbftw sucks ass
Dutch and John screaming at each other
Micah: “black lung”
Cowpoke
Scarface
"Heellfiree!!"
Lol
Rat
4:50 Dutch told John he would never leave him and did that very thing. John must've been beyond hurt during that confrontation at the camp.
While everyone viewed him as a deity, John was the only one who viewed Dutch as a man. John is such an amazing character.
Dutch: "I ain't ever gonna leave you, son."
How untrue that statement was.
I don't think he was lying there
We all know he got crazy
You can tell Dutch has rotten because in the beginning he was encouraging John to be loyal to his family, but midway thru he tells him that the gang is more important, then he doesn’t want John to be with his family because it makes him not want to be Dutch’s puppet, Dutch has always been a piece of shit, but he wasn’t desperate before, and when he is, he shows his true colors
@Arthur Morgan Uh oh! Watch out! We got a Dutch stan over here y’all 🤣
@Arthur Morgan 😂 Then laugh, Arthur, and this time do it without coughing.
@Arthur Morgan Bruh Dutch legit left Arthur and john to die and lied about it because they didnt blindly play into his bullshit like Bill or Javier did. It's very clear from even Chapter 2 that Dutch is a narcissist, like when Uncle calls him out on wanting to be "The King with his Knights." ((after which Dutch threatened to kill him btw)).
@Arthur Morgan That laugh was fake as hell, I can almost guarantee you Dutch dropped the smile and started scowling after turning around.
I don't recall John leaving Arthur to his fate after witnessing him get tackled by a man with a knife, while having TB, and yelling for John's assistance, and then quickly denying having left him there when confronted. Their code was just an excuse to kill and rob whoever they felt like, and they knew that. (John says so himself) The only reason Arthur "corrects" John as you previously mentioned is because he was blinded by loyalty, in Chapter 6 even Arthur, the most loyal of the lot and the oldest remaining gang member besides Dutch sees through the bullshit.
I'm not saying Dutch didn't care about the gang or that he didn't see them as his family, which he absolutely did, storming Braithwate Manor and having Arthur break Micah out is testament to that. While he cares, he's manipulative and borderline sociopathic. Dutch NEVER wants to admit he's wrong, even when it's very clear he's made a fuck up, like going after Bronte which Hosea tries to keep him from doing, or the entire shitshow that was their stay in Rhodes, Butcher Creek or Blackwater. What's funny about your comparison to Colm is that it's a point the game itself makes, with Kieran not seeing much difference between the two, which funnily enough, is exactly right when you look at Dutch in the first game. Dutch has always shown sociopathic tendencies in both games, though he is fully unhinged in the first. I don't know why you trailed off into Dutch allowing other races & genders into his gang, that has nothing to do with the original point. Again, the point wasn't that he didn't care about the gang, he absolutely did in his own way, but the point is Dutch was crazy even before Hosea's death, he was just better at masking it.
@Arthur Morgan Saving 99% of his gang doesn't hold much merit when he CONSISTENTLY gets them into dangerous situations and gets most of them killed. He honestly believes he can play both the Braithwates and the Grays and is chasing after some fairytale gold, and Sean gets killed for it. Then after they completely destroy Bratihwate Manor, the move over to a town that isn't in any way far, and the first thing he decides to do is rob someone and then kill the most powerful man in the city, which brings the law down on them even harder and gets Hosea and Lenny killed when they attempt to rob the bank. He listens to Micah and places all of his trust in him, the openly racist and sexist guy who NOBODY in the gang likes, gets Grimshaw and Arthur killed and the gang completely torn apart. Oh and he gets Jenny, Mac, and Davey killed in Blackwater.
Rdr2 dialogue never gets old. It’s so Well written that it makes It feel so real.
Lowkey, I think Dutch underestimated John, and at the same time, John saw right through Dutch. So many of these dialogs almost sound like Dutch subtlety manipulating and gas-lightning John. Sometimes, just outright doing it.
8:30 Dutch: Clear off Arthur, you’re starting to annoy me just as much as him.
Also Dutch: aRThuR.
@@blacksecondmissionstillcan1027 stop saying bruh this isn't a bruh moment bruh
Bruh
Bruh
Bruhh
Bruh
6:05 Nice walking i thought it was a cutscene for a second
North
North
North
Aryan S the fuck does That means
North
5:18
Look at this fool, Arthur
I really like how much detail was put into the story of this game…you can see that just by his interactions with Dutch alone you can see that John gets more and more frustrated with the whole gang and becomes more hesitant on whether or not he’s doing the right thing being there. Even just by the whole game they are really good with showing that detail…and then he becomes the man he is in Red Dead 1
"You don't think we should... scatter?"
Wow, to think even Javier who ended up siding with Dutch in the standoff was doubting him. No wonder him and Bill abandoned Dutch after the gang split.
I think they both were afraid of dutch and micha so when they had a chance to get away they took it
I wish we got a mission with Javier in chapter 6 so we can really get some insight into what is going through his mind. Bill got one, yet Javier didn't. He just sits in camp the whole chapter.
@@MrFusion notice how Javier holds his gun gun up ( into the air) when people were picking sides between Dutch and Arthur? He was conflicted somewhat but chose Dutch in the end. When he realized that things were more downhill he bounced from Dutch.
@@susanw1863 they were outnumbered, John was hurt and Arthur was Dying. Javier didn’t have much of a choice but his gun being up in the air kind of leaves the situation up in the air. He could’ve stay on their side literally for tactical advantage, had the law not arrived who knows what his true intentions to do were once the bullets started flying. I love that scene though because it subtly says so much about how dangerous Arthur is, alone, sick, and outnumbered they all still hesitate to go at him even before John arrives.
He does talk about it around the campfire. Javier like Arthur was a victim of his own loyalty, Dutch saved his life so he felt obligated to stay with him since he had nowhere else to go and Dutch offered protection and acceptance and even hope.
He thought Dutch would get better and it was just the stress getting to him and everyone else doubting him that was causing all their issues. Once Arthur died and John and the others escaped he probably realised that Dutch had just lost it and wasn't himself anymore and hed never get the gang back so he went his own way
“i ain’t ever gonna leave you” okay dutch
Eli Andrade I had too
Dutch Van Der Linde funny how back before the gang left Valentine, you said ‘we’d never leave a man behind no matter what.’
The way john speaks and moves is kinda like original red dead redemption
The "Black Lung" at 11:10 kills me
"Men don't change, they just become more of who they really are."
People*
- Rain Falls
I feel like he went crazy because of Micah
Have faith
@@tracyrae4854 Men = mankind stop getting upset when a masculine term is used
It makes me so happy to see that I'm not the only person who still plays red dead
I do I completed undead nightmare
Yes I hate when gta addicts try to shit on the game
i still play metal gear solid 5. i want to play the old one's but i cant since i have a xbox x
I still play too!
@@deadchanneldontwatch7347 I play it on xbox one
"Just remembered the gang comes first" he says it as if Abigail and Jack themselves were never a part of it and cattle being dragged with them. Or as if it means what Dutch, whatever Dutch needs, the gang needs? Meaning his needs over Abigail and Jacks needs?
I love when playing through we see the falling a part and desperate side of things begin and he begins to sound shallow and less caring to each members needs as simply a minor setback. Eventually anything that speaks out is almsot like a threat. When it is simply noticing of changes.
Man I really wish that Rockstar would make a short film about the Blackwater heist gone wrong, whenever John brings it up it makes me wanna see it so we can understand him perfectly why he questions Dutch about the whole event.
*"T H E G O L D E N B O A H"*
My main issue with Arthur is that he always ignored the signs that Dutch was losing it. Unlike John who saw right through his bs from the start
Eh, not really. If you read Arthur’s journal and pay attention to some interactions from the early chapters he questions and shows signs of losing faith in him, accompanied with his anxiety about the changing world. See his interactions with John in the Sheep and the Goats, or some dialogues when he approaches Dutch reading, or how he talks with Hosea about Dutch. It’s not that John was intelligent, he just was there in Blackwater and firsthand witnessed Dutch’s descent into madness.
Eh, you can see Arthur doubting Dutch even in the first chapter
That happens in real life though - if someone you REALLY value, love and respect starts to make questionable decisions or express behaviours you don’t like, it can take time to disconnect yourself from them. Arthur was deathly loyal to the gang and to Dutch, it’s all he knew, whereas John had taken time out and saw life from other perspectives.
When you’re dealing with someone as manipulative as Dutch, it can be incredibly difficult to see the wood for the trees, let alone accept what it is, so it’s not surprising to me that it took Arthur so long and they portrayed him in that way. It would’ve been more unrealistic if more people blatantly stood up to him or quit from the start of the game!
@@zaia3747 yeah but John is still intelligent. he's literate, just like Arthur but John always had that intuition of his that set things on the right path. I really like his character and how complex he is, despite being simple in on the surface.
Nope, Arthur has been showing signs of doubt during the very start, it just gets bigger as the story goes until his death
Ive noticed John was always his own man, he’s a very independent person just that he doesnt go about things the best way like when he left the gang for a year. As Arthur says “he may be dumb as rocks” but things work out for him. I feel like a rift was created between John and Dutch right after Blackwater, and John witnessing Dutch shoot that girl was something he couldnt let go of as maybe thats when John began to feel like everything about Dutch was a facade. Meaning that something about the way Micah riled up Dutch is key here, cause in RDR1 we used to hear John always talk about how Dutch went crazy and they fell out. In RDR2 we found out what he meant and Micah was behind it, and we know how Micah brought out the worst in Dutch. So its not just that Dutch shot an innocent mother, it’s also probably about how it went down that maybe shook up John maybe to think, “woah Micah got Dutch to shoot her a little too easy no?” It didnt help that here in the vid their camp interactions are so tense, almost like Dutch knows he’s lost some sort of favor with one of his favorites. So he approaches John almost looking for his approval, their relationship is also a metaphor for the gangs status the same way Arthur’s health was a metaphor for the gangs status. Except John keeps confronting Dutch unlike Arthur who puts his faith in Dutch until he can no longer bring himself to do it. Theres this idea that Arthur and John competed for Dutch’s favor and its possible John genuinely WAS the favorite and thats why the fallout between Dutch and John ran so deep. John watched his hero fall from grace on that boat and for whatever reason he just could not get that thorn out of his side until eventually he realizes “oh shit the Dutch i saw on that boat, the one i was trying hard to not see, is actually real and i cant ignore it any longer. When you talk to John too it always seems like he’s thinking “wtf am i doing here, what are WE doing here, where are we going with all this.” Other than his own woman and child issues he seems almost annoyed to be at camp and clearly he’s pretty hostile towards Dutch whenever they speak, which eventually after things going bad again and again, Dutch begins to treat John with hostility. Its funny cause their interactions begin with John being a aggressive and by the end of the story Dutch is always antagonizing John. That convo John has with Kieran about their gang and Colm’s comes to mind as well, where it honestly just sounds like major cope coming from John as he tries to defend what they do in comparison to the O’Driscoll’s. It sounds like he wants to believe it, thats what he wants the gang to be, and perhaps what he believed it was before Blackwater. But theres something there, that thorn that is making him feel otherwise.
This is the angle i believe Micah took in turning Dutch against John and Arthur, John being so hostile in the beginning to Dutch after Blackwater gave Micah enough leverage to accuse them of being traitors who wanted to remove Dutch from power and/or rob him and/or kill him. As Dutch got more paranoid he probably slowly genuinely started to believe Micah other than also realizing that Micah pushes him to be who he really wants to be, a crusader against the american government. Not to mention siding with Micah protects his ego from admitting his plans are just plain wrong. So he becomes hellbent on blind loyalty eventually trying to force John into subjugation but both of them know it didnt work. Eventually as things kept going wrong Micah found his excuse to accuse Arthur, once Arthur decides to act on his own and realizes that feuding with John over old beef is nonsense and that they should stick together. Then thats how Micah was able to lump them in together, he got rid of all the OG’s. He took control of Dutch, Hosea dies in a failed mission, John was already falling out and Micah gave the last push, and Arthur eventually fought back against them siding with John about the gangs and Dutch’s state of being. Micah was really there at the right place and time to make the Van Der Linde Gang die out.
That ending though. Arthur says it’s Micah, Dutch seems like he’s contemplating it, then it’s like something in his head says to never admit he’s been wrong so he just pretends he didn’t hear what Arthur said.
Admitting he was wrong would be probably the hardest thing for Dutch to do. He's like a person on the internet. XD
To Dutch, Micah didn't waver, he was supposedly loyal. John and Arthur, along with Hosea and some of the others, started thinking Dutch had lost his mind. And by that point, Arthur and John had both been more defiant towards him despite him treating them as sons. Sort of a "I want to trust you, but your knife's currently in my back" kind of ordeal for him. Granted, he IS losing his fucking mind, and is no stranger to manipulation and disception, so maybe he knew from the start
@@kamikaze4172 The only one poisoning on Dutch's mind was Micah, he's not loyal to every old gang members not even to John & Arthur. He's like a traitor or a spy for Agent Milton. Saying he was a good boy and Micah said that he's a survivor. Doesn't care anyone, in the end, all of the gang members leave Dutch & Micah including Bill & Javier. They never stayed to their leader. At least some of the old gang members survive normal & didn't get caught by the law unlike Herr Strauss who died in the torture of the Agents.
Sad that they followed dutch for so long. Too long.
11:12 *Dutch and John having an intense argument*
Micah out of nowhere: "Black lung!"
XxSSJWarriorxX 307 have you seen gavin
@@micahbell7530 ROT IN HELL MICAH BELL!
@@micahbell7530 gaviiiiiin?
I never realized how tall and lanky John was until I saw him standing by Dutch and Arthur. I swear in my play through he was taller than both of them
I don't think I appreciated how brilliant this game was when I first played it, but it's really clear watching this now. Bill’s “I wish I had a scar” shows how early on he venerates ruggedness and power when John associates his scars with his failures (and this is just reinforced again and again). It's also easy to dismiss Dutch's views as inconsistent, but in every playthrough I've seen it becomes more clear that his worldview is actually extremely simple and consistent, as are his methods and motivations. The only thing that changes are the lies he tells people to convince them. The more he succumbs to his desires the harder it becomes to justify his actions to his friends, but the desire was always there, and remains there until Nekoti Rock.
"We all get caught John, I guess the trick is to decide by who" lol what are the odds Dutch
Arthur: Remember what I said, up at the bridge -- when the time comes? Because it's comin'.
John: I will.
Javier: ...................
Everyone knew in the back of their minds that Dutch went crazy.
@@emperoralvis6559 but some tried to think otherwise, for example Bill
7:14 John literally steps back from Dutch.... he really knows something is off about him.
Btw I don't see it here, but I swear I had a scene in Beaver Hollow when John and Dutch again argue, and Dutch goes away angrly, and yells "and that is why I told them to let you hang." .....
Same i though I was the only one
wait what
Got any video clip of that fam? Otherwise it's the Mandela effect that made people think lawmen recognize you by your weapon customization.
what the hell
What wtf when did Dutch say that?
John was too smart for that gang