I prayed in my closet to the unseen and unknown God, to know if I could believe the Missionaries. The next day at midday, he sent his spirit to bring me to a remembrance of him, even though I didn't even know he was real, and confirm to me that the Missionaries are his laborers. By his spirit, I know the church is true. I hold the criticisms of the Church the same as criticisms of Christianity, the Bible, and all attendant matters. FWIW, there are more inconsistencies and flawed characters in the Bible than in the LDS Church. When Gods spirit came to me, I recognized and remembered him. That's how I know he lives, that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is his Church, and the Missionaries are his laborers.
@@PurePuritan If you acknowledge Satan then you must believe in God. I didn't say that I am God or that there is no God. I said God sent his spirit to awaken me to a remembrance of him, that he lives and is divine, and that the LDS Missionaries are his servants. Would Satan testify that God lives, that Jesus Christ is the Savior, and that Jesus's Gospel of repentance is true?
You should do a show on Eastern Orthodoxy. They have a theology based on not knowing God but what He isn’t. Lots of Orthodox in SLC. I was saved out of it.
Yes, we wish there was more info on them. Many people converting to that religion, who feel it's the "original church of Antioch" or something 🤷🏻♀️ Still not clear how they justify that claim.
Where’s the “you’re in a cult, I love you and I want you with Christ” sound bite from? Is it Walter Martin? I’ve been trying to find it and have had no luck
Thanks much! Have you found current Mormons getting confused about the perceived distinctive differences between the Telestial, Terrestrial and the 3 levels of the Celestial kingdom getting muddled in their world view and theology?
Yes!!! Unquestionably! Have run into so many people with distinct (and conflicting) views on this. If pressed, a lot of Latter-day Saints feel SUPER uncomfortable by excluding people from the Celestial Kingdom. The most POPULAR view that I've encountered on the street is people saying they will progress THROUGH the kingdoms in time, and that eventually the lower kingdoms will be (essentially) empty. While breaking one aspect of historical LDS doctrine, it permits a 3 kingdom system with some wiggle room about who goes where. Another common line is "you will only go to the kingdom where you'll be the happiest; Heavenly Father wouldn't send you to a place where you'd be miserable. If you're in the Telestial Kingdom, then you'd be miserable in Celestial glory."
@@GLM As a member of the LDS church it is sad to see many members "tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine." I can say with certainty that the unanimity of members has decreased (at least in the U.S.) like you said in this video. You can go to two different members, ask the same question, and get two completely different answers. This is okay when it comes to non-doctrinal points because everyone has their own opinions, but when it is considered a doctrinal point and they bend it to fit their worldview, there is a problem. I have found that people my age (millennials and younger) have allowed themselves to not be rooted in core doctrines of the church and have more so taken on this "woke" ideology that doesn't just damage our church, but many others. Many hide from discussion and shy away from any sort of challenge to their faith. Enjoyed the conversation between you all. I went to Heritage Academy like the host of Cultish and I can agree that the school is about 98% LDS. haha. You videos make me study more and it ends up strengthening my faith. So for that I am grateful.
I did a search but couldn't find an exact match. But there are some mormonism videos from 11 months and 9 months ago. Do a search for: apologia studios mormonism cultish post modern maze (I tried taking out some of the search terms but it didn't bring up as many videos as this search string did).
I was raised Mormon. Years later read the Bible and saw the truth. Now modern day Mormons tell me I’m a liar when I question their doctrine. It’s really sad.
Although it's a touchy subject, can you maybe do a show about the cult of wokeness. I'm not talking about the politics, but the fact that it has become a cult to many - you have to believe what you're told; you can't question anything and there is NO forgiveness etc. I really believe it's a new "religion". Once again - not talking about the politics but how people have replaced their Christianity with it.
The church is the thing Mormons worship. The issue with talking to Mormons is based more on authority from what I see when I talk with them. Obviously the doctrines are different but most importantly our starting points are antithetical. They start with the church and their prophets and we go to the Bible. It’s tough
Similar to JWs, but they have more perks. They celebrated holidays and vote Amish celebrate holidays and vote JWs only celebrate wedding anniversaries If your not married as a KW, you have nothing to celebrate Having your nations flag is a recipe for SHUNNING I'm not giving LDS A PASS though especially the 2 nephi 3 issue over dark skin, and Jesus bring satan's brother
@Elias Uluave “We receive and accept modern day revelation as the word of God” Christians don’t believe God can’t reveal things to his Church and guide the Church according to His will. The ultimate issue is that a large portion of revelations from Mormon prophets plainly contradict the Bible, contradict the BOM itself (i.e Jacob 1,2, and 3 vs. Joseph’s revelation on polygamy), and contradict other Mormon prophets’ revelations. This explicit pattern raises huge red flags to followers of Christ who are called by God to test the spirits/prophets (1 John 4). “We also believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly” Another example where Mormonism goes off the rails from traditional Christianity, which believes the Bible is the infallible word of God. Once you add “as far as it is translated correctly” the word of God becomes “kind of the word of God, but filled with errors so we can’t really trust it completely”. This leads to mistrust and confusion for people. How do we know what was and wasn’t translated correctly? A Mormon would say we know something was translated incorrectly because it contradicts Mormon teaching or because Church leadership tells us so. Do you see the problem? The authority of God’s word is supplanted to the Mormon leadership who use the Bible not as their ultimate standard, but as a means by which to bolster their selves as the ultimate authority. “God spoke then, why can't He speak now and also clarify the verses that got mistranslated or left out?” That’s begging the question. Your assumption is that the Bible has been translated incorrectly and is missing “many plain and precious parts”. This leads you to conclude it needs to be restored. That is like an atheist concluding miracles are impossible, and because scripture contains miracles, it can’t be trusted. Again, I say this with love and compassion, church history dating back all the way from now to the time of Christ including academic scholarship clearly and powerfully demonstrates the exact opposite of this Mormon teaching about Bible reliability. It instead shows scripture is incredibly reliable and isn’t missing parts. We even find that as time goes on, archeological discoveries and newly discovered papyri copies make us even more sure that what we have is trustworthy. The Mormon notion that scripture is translated incorrectly and missing many parts cannot be logically or practically demonstrated and rails against church history, archaeology, academic scholarship, and Jesus’ teaching in John 10:35 that “the scripture cannot be broken”. Elias, I understand your fervor for the LDS Church and wanting it to be true. As someone who loves the Mormon community I implore you to pray, read the New Testament, and fervently dig into actual historic church history, writings of the early church fathers, modern scholarship (including the process of textual criticism), biblical archaeology, as well as Mormon Church history (from source material, not the LDS Church’s narrative of it). Praying that you find clarity and wisdom from God as you navigate these issues. 🙏🏼
True. In the temple endowment multiple covenants are made about loyalty, consecration, and sacrifice to the church. That’s the emphasis. All my life the first thing I said in my personal prayers was I am thankful for the church. I relied on it for everything important. When I really personally needed God in a crisis I found I didn’t have anything. Had to start over.
Leaders have even said that it’s fine how members have different worldviews!. And yet if you have outspoken traditional family values you get marginalized. That is what has happened to us after raising our big family in the church. It’s incredibly heartbreaking.
I think secularism is why you guys are having trouble hanging out tracts etc. Secularism even in the Christian church as we see churches with BLM and gay affirming stances.
The cult you forgot is Seventh-day Adventism. The Four Major Cults, Christian Science, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Seventh-day Adventism by Anthony Hoekema. It is a shame that the Christian Church does not address/warn the SDA Gospel as non-Christian.
What is the quote at the beginning of every podcast? "You're in a cult. I love you and I want you out of it and with Christ....." I can never understand the ending. It sound like "but you you you're." Love the podcast
As a Mormon, I think you guys were very nice and gentle. And also misunderstood a lot of Mormon views. One that comes readily to mind is the idea that God is unchanging. Mormons believe God is unchanging, just as you do. God did not change when he came to earth as a man, right? Unchanging doesn’t mean static. It means consistent. And God is definitely consistent.
You misunderstood their point. They were asking how you could claim your god to be unchanging if he was not all knowing. Through the ideas of eternal progression, your god cannot be the God of the Bible because he is not all knowing. Meaning he is continuously learning and changing through his newly acquired knowledge. So you may claim he is unchanging but your theology does not reflect that.
Questions for Christians from a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormon) I agree that we are NOT Christians by the traditional definition. I believe that if more Latter Day Saints understood what it means to be a Christian by your definition they would agree and encourage the distinction. The average LDS member is not going to dig into the theology enough to really understand the difference. Most members, for example, don’t understand where the Nicene Creed came from or understand that Christians view Jesus as “homoousios” or of the same substance as the Father. I believe that if the average member understood the differences they did they would not say that we are all basically the same and would encourage some separation. I struggle to understand the Christian view. They hold up the Bible as Inerrant yet seem to disregard so much of it. I think a lot about 2 Corinthians 3:12-16. Is there a veil upon the hearts of Christians so that when they read the scriptures they don’t understand them? We know that God can reveal and hide understanding as he pleases (Matt. 11:25). I suppose I must trust that the Sovereign Lord has a plan in producing such a clear book that produces such division. Here are some burning questions I have about Christian beliefs. How do you know the Bible is the Word of God? Yes we can show that the Bible remains largely unchanged over the centuries. That is a miracle to be sure! But the Lilliad has been well preserved too and we don’t believe it is the Word of God. We can find Biblical historical sites today but again geography doesn’t make something the Word of God. The Apostles died for their belief in the resurrection of Jesus. People don’t just die for something that is false do they? Joseph Smith died for his beliefs. So, the question remains, how do you know the Bible is the Word of God or that Jesus is your Savior? How do you justify a belief in the Trinity in light of so many Bible verses that show the Godhead as three distinct beings? Yes, Isaiah says that God is one(Isaiah 45:5) and that “besides Me there is no God (Isaiah 44:6). As a Latter Day Saint I believe the Bible to be true so I believe what Isaiah says. I also believe Jesus in His intercessory prayer when he says, “that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us” (John 17:21 ESV). Are we supposed to be of the same substance as God? Or is the Biblical idea of “oneness” more like Paul’s analogy of the Body of Christ? In any case if you hold those verses from the Book of Isaiah as literal truth, meaning that God is a single being, then Jesus Himself becomes a huge problem! How can he be the Son of God if there is only one God from beginning to end and there is none like Him? The existence of Jesus shows that Isaiah did not mean “one” in the sense of a single ultimate being. Genesis 1:26 Let us make man in our image. If we were made in God’s image why are we not 3 in one? And why both male and female? This verse in Genesis is just one of many in the Old Testament of God being referred to as, Us or Them. Even the word Elohim is plural. Romans 8:17 Co-heirs with Christ. Why is Jesus an heir if He was already fully God? Why are we co-heirs with Him? This also points to the deification of man. Acts 7:56 (NLT) And he told them, “Look, I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing in the place of honor at God’s right hand!” I have heard several pastors and teachers try to explain this away. It probably means exactly what it says. The Bible is inerrant after all! John 5:17,19-20. (NIV) 17 “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 19“Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself;he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these…” What did Jesus see God doing? Could God the Father have been like Jesus once? Certainly there are two separate beings in this situation. The observer and the observed. Luke 3:22 (NKJV) And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased Again three separate individuals. 1 John 3:2 New American Standard Bible) Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is When He appears we shall be like Him. Again what does this say about what God is like? God is a spirit As Jesus spoke this He (God) had a body of flesh and blood. After His resurrection He ate fish and honey just to make sure it was crystal clear. The Holy Spirit s a spirit and God. God is not a man that he should lie. Not sure what the contradiction is here. It certainly doesn’t invalidate all the other parts of scripture from above. Why don’t Evangelical Christians embrace the idea of a Prophet or of personal revelation? The book of Acts shows us several instances of a very specific organized structure and authority to the Church after Jesus ascended into heaven. Peter in Acts 10 receives revelation that changes the way the church operates. Isn’t God unchanging? If so then why don’t Christians reject this chapter of the Bible? Christians don’t believe in prophets who received revelation directly from God and yet somehow believe in this chapter of the Bible. I just don’t get it. If you are a true Christian trying to live the Bible then where are your Prophets or Apostles with authority to receive revelation for the Church directly from Jesus Christ? Simon in Acts 8 - Acts 8:17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. (NIV) - First of all when did someone place their hands on you so that you received the Holy Spirit? If you believe the Bible why isn’t this a common practice in the Christian Church? Second as we read the rest of the chapter we can clearly see that only those with authority can do this. Who in your Church has the authority to do this? Are you just going to ignore the parts of the Bible that you don’t understand or don’t like? Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
I don’t have all the answers for you Mr. Russell but I love the way you are digging into the nuances and searching for truth in Christianity. There are lots of amazing Christian apologists to help answer some of these questions. William Lane Craig, Frank Turik, Mike Licona, Gary Habermas, and many others should be able to specifically address your questions. I do hope that once you’ve smartly and rightly scrutinized the authenticity and claims of Christianity that you can do the very same thing with the claims of Joseph Smith and the LDS doctrines. If you truly are on a search for truth, you have to judge all worldviews and claims by the same criteria before you can render a fair and reasonable conclusion. May God bless your search.
@@dustyrose5994 I am genuinely curious in individual Christians experiences. If you are willing to share, how do you know the Bible is the Word of God?
@@robertrussell7468 For the Old Testament I find the astronomical odds of the Bible being able to predict all that it did about the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus to be absolutely compelling. Every single prophecy came true and they were written thousands of years before Jesus. In my mind that cannot be explained except that God inspired their writings. For the New Testament we don’t have as much real world evidence in the same sense as the old. But, we do have lots of data supporting the historical claims of the New Testament, meaning what they claim happened did in fact happen. They have proven truthful in all things that we can corroborate. So if they are true in those, and the disciples were willing to die for the things they were writing, then I am willing to believe in the divine nature of the scriptures. And if I believe it, then I look at how the Bible describes itself. And in numerous places in the New Testament it says that these words are God-breathed. Other Christians May have different answers but that’s how I know the Bible is the Word of God.
Pray for me. The first thought through my mind during the beard product promo when he said, "... or as a gift for someone you know who has a beard....", was, 'hey, Mother's Day is coming soon'. Does that mean I'm going to heck?🤣🤣🤣
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition: Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Thy money perish with thee because thou hast thought that the gift of God can be purchased with money.
I agree with you guys that God's immutability is of huge importance. What do you guys think about the book from Jeffrey Johnson "the failure of natural theology".
I'm around half-way through Johnson's book currently; don't yet have super developed thoughts on the issue. I think that lots of Johnson's critiques of AQUINAS'S thinking (specifically) are totally valid; but some of the trinitarian elements referenced seem to precede Aquinas and aren't inherently based on natural theology. But regardless - I don't think that an aquinian paradigm is the only consistent way to hold to immutability. Christians can cling to an immutability of nature/being/will even if they reject "Thomism."
@@GLM the Trinitarian elements in his book are quite new to the church. Many including myself would not agree with how the trinity is used to show God moves within the trinity. His book here has come under some scrutiny however because of how badly he misrepresents Aquinas. Josh somers and a friend of mine asked the author if he's ever read Aquinas and it was clear from reading the book he hadn't. Thanks for getting back to me I liked what you said in the video about immutability I would continue to hold to that.
They have recently backed off of polygamy-sort of weaseled out of it. And yes the only reason they would go back to it is social pressure or some other benefit to the church. This is super crazy gaslighting to me as a fifth generation member who lived her whole life dreading sharing her husband with unnumbered wives for eternity.
Ecclesiastes 3:15: “That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been; and God seeks what has been driven away.” The “natural man” cannot grasp that, for to him reality is based only on the evidence of the senses. The man of reason could justify the verse’s end, saying if it has any meaning then the writer must mean recurrence. The sun comes every day and the moon completes its cycle and the seasons come and go. If we took a picture of the universe today, the scientists can compute how long it will take to return to this point in the picture. So the intellectual man could justify the verse; but that is not what is meant, for it is addressed not to the man of reason or the man of sense, but to the man of Imagination. What is it all about? “That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been, and God seeks what has been driven away.” you wake and destroy saved ignorance to Christ in all man, that laughs at you pros..
It depends on what you mean by Christian. If you mean Protestant or Evangelical then no Mormons are not Christian. If you mean a true Christian meaning Christ's official church then yes Mormons are Christian. To a Mormon a Protestant or Evangelical is not a Christian but to say that would be confusing. So Latter Day Saints are Christians but not Protestants or Evangelical.
When LDS people leave the church one of the main reasons they leave religion in general is because the church is so overbearing and demanding they just get burned out on religion. Those that are still interested in religion tend to turn to one of the denominations like Catholicism or Orthodox instead of non-denominational evangelical because they've had negative experiences with evangelicals in the past, even more so now with all the Trump worship that tends to go on among evangelicals. There are also a fair number that seek spirituality in pagan traditions. As an added note, the LDS church preaches that God is unchanging and already knows everything, not that he's continuing to learn. The church preaches that God gives the church new revelation not because God is learning new things, but because he's sharing more of what he already knows with the church. Political issues aside, if you want to convert LDS people to your faith it matters how you talk about them and the assertions you make about what they believe, especially if those assertions aren't completely accurate, because even if that LDS person eventually leaves the church and is looking for another church to go to, they'll remember how you talked about them before and won't be interested in whatever you're offering.
When most of members leave the LDS church, is mostly because they want to have some taste of the world, or some sin they cannot deal with, so they want to live by their own path
@@Therealgpack That's actually incorrect. When LDS leave the church, for the vast majority it's because they've done research about the church's history and the behavior of the church's leaders, with more historical records and documented activities available now than ever before. They've discovered through all the scholarship and historical records now available that the Book of Abraham is a fraud and the Book of Mormon isn't what it claims to be. That is the main reason most people are leaving the church. History, truth, and the behavior of the leaders.
I think as long as the Mormon church has the "Book of Mormon" they will always be "Mormons" it's something that will never go away. As long as they believe in the Book of "Mormon" this is what started the whole thing, made it different from Bible christianity and not solid bible believers. Tge pick abd choose scripture from each book ti believe. So, they can't be offended by the word mormon. Just common sense.
@Apologia Studios It seems that anytime you try to prove to the LDS that they believe in a different Jesus it’s hard to get thru. The one doctrine they believe is Celestial Marriage. This is the one thing their entire theological views revolve around. Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. These are Jesus’s own words if they don’t accept that then they believe in a different Jesus it makes it very clear to them. Arguing about the nature of god or the trinity just seems to go in circles with them but them denying his own words that are so clear shows them how different their doctrine is. Simply asking them if they believe Matthew 22:30 shows they don’t believe in the biblical Jesus. Their entire theology falls apart with that one scripture. Being raised LDS I know that was the biggest one for me to really see how different LDS doctrine is. The entire faith revolves around marriage in heaven. That disproves their preexistence, post-existence, temple work, exhalation everything is gone by that one verse. You don’t even have to move to another scriptural reference just stay on that.
@@davericard2020 That's one response, but not the main one. This scripture is addressed in D&C 132. Look on fairLDS or in Jesus the Christ where this was addressed in 1915. Many apostles and prophets have quoted this. It's not even seen as an issue.
So exactly my point you believe in a different Jesus. You believe in the Jesus that wasn’t enough and needs Joseph Smith to come along and fix everything he neglected to tell us. That’s a different Jesus. My Jesus was enough.
@Matthew Cable Of course they don’t think it’s a big deal. They definitely wouldn’t say it was now would they. It’s pretty typical for LDS leaders to not disclose things. Like it’s also not a big deal that Joseph used a Seer Stone to translate yet that’s witchcraft. Not a big deal so much of not a big deal I’m sure they would be willing to change all the pictures in Wardhouses to show Joseph’s head buried in a hat. Like Emma, Oliver and Martin said how it was done. That’s not a big deal just a little lie right?
I've watched many of these videos with Jeff Durbin on this UA-cam channel. He seems to have a real problem with Mormons believing we can become gods. The scriptures make it clear that this is possible, if you apply common sense. For instance, Rev 3: 20-22, speaks about how if we overcome (the world) we will sit with Christ upon his throne as the father (God) sits on his throne. How can we not become a god as we literally sit upon the throne of Christ as well on the throne with God the father? It is actually blasphemy and satanic to believe we cannot eternally progress to become a god. Satan wants you to believe this is not possible!! He does not want you to believe and progress to become like God. Let me explain: Does God the father (because he is a god) have a fullness of joy? YES! Does he have a fullness of love? YES! Does he have a fullness of happiness? YES! Does he have a fullness of power, knowledge and wisdom? YES! Absolutely 100% He possesses all of these attributes because he is a God!! AS OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN, HE WANTS US HIS CHILDREN TO OBTAIN THESE SAME ATRRIBUTES. Thats what a loving father wants for their children!! If you don't believe that we go through an eternal progression to obtain and become like God, then you believe in a god that's says, you will never obtain my fullness of happiness, joy, love, power, wisdom and knowledge. You will just be a slave robot that will never progress and grow and learn. you will be damned and never able to progress FOR ETERNITY. THINK ABOUT IT, FOR ETERNITY. Does that sound like a god you want to worship that says, sorry, you will never become like me and experience all of my joys and happiness. What kind of earthly father would tell his children, sorry kids, you're going to be my slave robot. I don't want you to ever experience and become like me. I will never share with you and teach you all the things that have made me successful, happy and full of joy. I want the absolute worst for you, I want you to never progress in life or become better. I don't want to see you progress and become truly happy and full of joy. Not believing that we can become like God is like telling your son, sorry son, you can never be a father like me and have children like me. What kind of earthly father would that be? a DOWNRIGHT HORRIBLE FATHER!! Doesn't a father want the best for their children? Why should it be any different from our Heavenly Father? GOD WANTS US TO BECOME LIKE HIM, LIKE A GOD!!! common sense, people!!! Don't listen to Mr. Durbin's toxic teachings about Mormonism. He doesn't know what he is talking about!!! Your definition of heaven is actually hell, if you believe we cannot become like God, A GOD!! Hell is where you are damned and can never progress to experience true joy and happiness. Jeff Durbin's definition of heaven is actually in reality, HELL. because he does not believe in eternal progression to become a god. He believes in damnation of individuals. NO PROGRESSION!! NO GODHOOD!! . I can't imagine living with a selfish god and being in heaven where i will be damned for eternity. Never Able TO BECOME LIKE MY FATHER IN HEAVEN and eternally progress to obtain his awesome attributes. The fact that The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is the Only CHURCH that teaches this doctrine should open your eyes to the truthfulness of this church. Man, apply some common sense. Just take time to think about it! We are not saying that we will replace God one day and surpass him, all we are saying is that we can become like him. When I became a father, I didn't replace my dad or get rid of him, I learned from him and enjoyed my experiences that brought me closer to him because I became a father too. Here is a truth bomb, Mr. Durbin. ELOHIM IS ACTUALLY PLURAL. IT IS A HEBREW WORD MEANING GODS. IT IS GRAMMATICALLY PLURAL NOUN FOR GODS OR DEITIES IN BIBLICAL HEBREW. DO A WIKIPEDIA SEARCH OF THE WORD ELOHIM. Yes, there will be many Gods!!! Just like there are many fathers here on earth. Just like we can become a father on earth, we can become a God if we so choose and desire.
You had to add to Rev 3 20-22 to make it seem like you become gods but in Isaiah 43: 10 says Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. Also in Isaiah 44:8 Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, . . . There are so many verses that talk about Yahweh being the one and only God. What you are talking about unbiblical. And it is no where in the bible but is in the king follett discord states that.
Grace and mercy is a limited application, the correct christian explanation is a required belief winning grace and mercy is funny emotionally proved door for no pagans, no Mormons, cult worship, proper churches do need rejects qualified ignorance to the risk involved flunks. Neville Goddard taught a truth beyond classic christians condemning others with leavened beliefs with strong soft approved truth only they dare claim righteous opinions over grace and mercy requirments to be able to apply. Your classic repeaters with secular histories for flesh truth than is defeated, Christ in man does trap christians gospel of special works.
Leaders have even said that it’s fine how members have different worldviews!. And yet if you have outspoken traditional family values you get marginalized. That is what has happened to us after raising our big family in the church. It’s incredibly heartbreaking.
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ean.link/bahnsenu
Thanks for having me on!
The conceit is never going to win mormons over.
Great video! I can’t wait for the second part.
Love your impassioned plea from all 3 of you at the end...love your hearts guys!
Thank you so much for Part 1 & 2!
I prayed in my closet to the unseen and unknown God, to know if I could believe the Missionaries. The next day at midday, he sent his spirit to bring me to a remembrance of him, even though I didn't even know he was real, and confirm to me that the Missionaries are his laborers. By his spirit, I know the church is true. I hold the criticisms of the Church the same as criticisms of Christianity, the Bible, and all attendant matters. FWIW, there are more inconsistencies and flawed characters in the Bible than in the LDS Church. When Gods spirit came to me, I recognized and remembered him. That's how I know he lives, that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is his Church, and the Missionaries are his laborers.
Facts don't care about your feelings.
@@PurePuritan I stated facts. Does that hurt your feelings?
@@jeffwilson4693 whatever Satan
@@PurePuritan If you acknowledge Satan then you must believe in God. I didn't say that I am God or that there is no God. I said God sent his spirit to awaken me to a remembrance of him, that he lives and is divine, and that the LDS Missionaries are his servants. Would Satan testify that God lives, that Jesus Christ is the Savior, and that Jesus's Gospel of repentance is true?
@@jeffwilson4693 you think you're gone be a god. And that Satan is christs brother. Open your Bible and wake up.
You should do a show on Eastern Orthodoxy. They have a theology based on not knowing God but what He isn’t. Lots of Orthodox in SLC. I was saved out of it.
Yes, we wish there was more info on them. Many people converting to that religion, who feel it's the "original church of Antioch" or something 🤷🏻♀️ Still not clear how they justify that claim.
@@averyhappywoman I’m a convert, the Holy Orthodox Church is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church ☦️
@@averyhappywoman They're one of the few churches with a legitimate claim to apostolic succession.
@@bretthagan2000 What makes you say that?
@@joannaflowers5563 it is the church where Christ is truly present, it’s the church Jesus established
Where’s the “you’re in a cult, I love you and I want you with Christ” sound bite from? Is it Walter Martin? I’ve been trying to find it and have had no luck
good discussion and knowledgeable guest 👍
Thanks much! Have you found current Mormons getting confused about the perceived distinctive differences between the Telestial, Terrestrial and the 3 levels of the Celestial kingdom getting muddled in their world view and theology?
Yes!!! Unquestionably! Have run into so many people with distinct (and conflicting) views on this. If pressed, a lot of Latter-day Saints feel SUPER uncomfortable by excluding people from the Celestial Kingdom. The most POPULAR view that I've encountered on the street is people saying they will progress THROUGH the kingdoms in time, and that eventually the lower kingdoms will be (essentially) empty. While breaking one aspect of historical LDS doctrine, it permits a 3 kingdom system with some wiggle room about who goes where.
Another common line is "you will only go to the kingdom where you'll be the happiest; Heavenly Father wouldn't send you to a place where you'd be miserable. If you're in the Telestial Kingdom, then you'd be miserable in Celestial glory."
@@GLM As a member of the LDS church it is sad to see many members "tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine." I can say with certainty that the unanimity of members has decreased (at least in the U.S.) like you said in this video. You can go to two different members, ask the same question, and get two completely different answers. This is okay when it comes to non-doctrinal points because everyone has their own opinions, but when it is considered a doctrinal point and they bend it to fit their worldview, there is a problem. I have found that people my age (millennials and younger) have allowed themselves to not be rooted in core doctrines of the church and have more so taken on this "woke" ideology that doesn't just damage our church, but many others. Many hide from discussion and shy away from any sort of challenge to their faith.
Enjoyed the conversation between you all. I went to Heritage Academy like the host of Cultish and I can agree that the school is about 98% LDS. haha. You videos make me study more and it ends up strengthening my faith. So for that I am grateful.
Is there a link to volume 1?
I did a search but couldn't find an exact match. But there are some mormonism videos from 11 months and 9 months ago. Do a search for: apologia studios mormonism cultish post modern maze (I tried taking out some of the search terms but it didn't bring up as many videos as this search string did).
I was raised Mormon.
Years later read the Bible and saw the truth. Now modern day Mormons tell me I’m a liar when I question their doctrine. It’s really sad.
Can someone point me to the “original” series they mention at the beginning? I guess it would be volume 1?
I love the name "God Loves Mormons"!
Although it's a touchy subject, can you maybe do a show about the cult of wokeness. I'm not talking about the politics, but the fact that it has become a cult to many - you have to believe what you're told; you can't question anything and there is NO forgiveness etc.
I really believe it's a new "religion". Once again - not talking about the politics but how people have replaced their Christianity with it.
The church is the thing Mormons worship. The issue with talking to Mormons is based more on authority from what I see when I talk with them. Obviously the doctrines are different but most importantly our starting points are antithetical. They start with the church and their prophets and we go to the Bible. It’s tough
Similar to JWs, but they have more perks.
They celebrated holidays and vote
Amish celebrate holidays and vote
JWs only celebrate wedding anniversaries
If your not married as a KW, you have nothing to celebrate
Having your nations flag is a recipe for SHUNNING
I'm not giving LDS A PASS though
especially the 2 nephi 3 issue over dark skin, and Jesus bring satan's brother
@Elias Uluave
“We receive and accept modern day revelation as the word of God”
Christians don’t believe God can’t reveal things to his Church and guide the Church according to His will. The ultimate issue is that a large portion of revelations from Mormon prophets plainly contradict the Bible, contradict the BOM itself (i.e Jacob 1,2, and 3 vs. Joseph’s revelation on polygamy), and contradict other Mormon prophets’ revelations. This explicit pattern raises huge red flags to followers of Christ who are called by God to test the spirits/prophets (1 John 4).
“We also believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly”
Another example where Mormonism goes off the rails from traditional Christianity, which believes the Bible is the infallible word of God. Once you add “as far as it is translated correctly” the word of God becomes “kind of the word of God, but filled with errors so we can’t really trust it completely”. This leads to mistrust and confusion for people. How do we know what was and wasn’t translated correctly? A Mormon would say we know something was translated incorrectly because it contradicts Mormon teaching or because Church leadership tells us so. Do you see the problem? The authority of God’s word is supplanted to the Mormon leadership who use the Bible not as their ultimate standard, but as a means by which to bolster their selves as the ultimate authority.
“God spoke then, why can't He speak now and also clarify the verses that got mistranslated or left out?”
That’s begging the question. Your assumption is that the Bible has been translated incorrectly and is missing “many plain and precious parts”.
This leads you to conclude it needs to be restored. That is like an atheist concluding miracles are impossible, and because scripture contains miracles, it can’t be trusted. Again, I say this with love and compassion, church history dating back all the way from now to the time of Christ including academic scholarship clearly and powerfully demonstrates the exact opposite of this Mormon teaching about Bible reliability. It instead shows scripture is incredibly reliable and isn’t missing parts. We even find that as time goes on, archeological discoveries and newly discovered papyri copies make us even more sure that what we have is trustworthy. The Mormon notion that scripture is translated incorrectly and missing many parts cannot be logically or practically demonstrated and rails against church history, archaeology, academic scholarship, and Jesus’ teaching in John 10:35 that “the scripture cannot be broken”.
Elias, I understand your fervor for the LDS Church and wanting it to be true. As someone who loves the Mormon community I implore you to pray, read the New Testament, and fervently dig into actual historic church history, writings of the early church fathers, modern scholarship (including the process of textual criticism), biblical archaeology, as well as Mormon Church history (from source material, not the LDS Church’s narrative of it). Praying that you find clarity and wisdom from God as you navigate these issues. 🙏🏼
True. In the temple endowment multiple covenants are made about loyalty, consecration, and sacrifice to the church. That’s the emphasis. All my life the first thing I said in my personal prayers was I am thankful for the church. I relied on it for everything important. When I really personally needed God in a crisis I found I didn’t have anything. Had to start over.
Leaders have even said that it’s fine how members have different worldviews!. And yet if you have outspoken traditional family values you get marginalized. That is what has happened to us after raising our big family in the church. It’s incredibly heartbreaking.
I think secularism is why you guys are having trouble hanging out tracts etc. Secularism even in the Christian church as we see churches with BLM and gay affirming stances.
Left in the bible, and mathematics, are BOTH NEGATIVE
The cult you forgot is Seventh-day Adventism. The Four Major Cults, Christian Science, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormonism, Seventh-day Adventism by Anthony Hoekema. It is a shame that the Christian Church does not address/warn the SDA Gospel as non-Christian.
What is the quote at the beginning of every podcast? "You're in a cult. I love you and I want you out of it and with Christ....." I can never understand the ending. It sound like "but you you you're." Love the podcast
As a Mormon, I think you guys were very nice and gentle. And also misunderstood a lot of Mormon views. One that comes readily to mind is the idea that God is unchanging. Mormons believe God is unchanging, just as you do. God did not change when he came to earth as a man, right? Unchanging doesn’t mean static. It means consistent. And God is definitely consistent.
You misunderstood their point. They were asking how you could claim your god to be unchanging if he was not all knowing. Through the ideas of eternal progression, your god cannot be the God of the Bible because he is not all knowing. Meaning he is continuously learning and changing through his newly acquired knowledge. So you may claim he is unchanging but your theology does not reflect that.
You need to watch more of these videos to understand and please read your Bible 🙏 and look up the scriptures they give.
Why do you say "Elohim, as they call Him" multiple times? That is a name for God 37:05
Questions for Christians from a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
As a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormon) I agree that we are NOT Christians by the traditional definition. I believe that if more Latter Day Saints understood what it means to be a Christian by your definition they would agree and encourage the distinction.
The average LDS member is not going to dig into the theology enough to really understand the difference. Most members, for example, don’t understand where the Nicene Creed came from or understand that Christians view Jesus as “homoousios” or of the same substance as the Father. I believe that if the average member understood the differences they did they would not say that we are all basically the same and would encourage some separation.
I struggle to understand the Christian view. They hold up the Bible as Inerrant yet seem to disregard so much of it. I think a lot about 2 Corinthians 3:12-16. Is there a veil upon the hearts of Christians so that when they read the scriptures they don’t understand them? We know that God can reveal and hide understanding as he pleases (Matt. 11:25). I suppose I must trust that the Sovereign Lord has a plan in producing such a clear book that produces such division.
Here are some burning questions I have about Christian beliefs.
How do you know the Bible is the Word of God?
Yes we can show that the Bible remains largely unchanged over the centuries. That is a miracle to be sure! But the Lilliad has been well preserved too and we don’t believe it is the Word of God. We can find Biblical historical sites today but again geography doesn’t make something the Word of God. The Apostles died for their belief in the resurrection of Jesus. People don’t just die for something that is false do they? Joseph Smith died for his beliefs. So, the question remains, how do you know the Bible is the Word of God or that Jesus is your Savior?
How do you justify a belief in the Trinity in light of so many Bible verses that show the Godhead as three distinct beings?
Yes, Isaiah says that God is one(Isaiah 45:5) and that “besides Me there is no God (Isaiah 44:6). As a Latter Day Saint I believe the Bible to be true so I believe what Isaiah says. I also believe Jesus in His intercessory prayer when he says, “that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us” (John 17:21 ESV). Are we supposed to be of the same substance as God? Or is the Biblical idea of “oneness” more like Paul’s analogy of the Body of Christ? In any case if you hold those verses from the Book of Isaiah as literal truth, meaning that God is a single being, then Jesus Himself becomes a huge problem! How can he be the Son of God if there is only one God from beginning to end and there is none like Him? The existence of Jesus shows that Isaiah did not mean “one” in the sense of a single ultimate being.
Genesis 1:26 Let us make man in our image.
If we were made in God’s image why are we not 3 in one? And why both male and female? This verse in Genesis is just one of many in the Old Testament of God being referred to as, Us or Them. Even the word Elohim is plural.
Romans 8:17 Co-heirs with Christ.
Why is Jesus an heir if He was already fully God? Why are we co-heirs with Him? This also points to the deification of man.
Acts 7:56 (NLT) And he told them, “Look, I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing in the place of honor at God’s right hand!”
I have heard several pastors and teachers try to explain this away. It probably means exactly what it says. The Bible is inerrant after all!
John 5:17,19-20. (NIV) 17 “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”
19“Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself;he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these…”
What did Jesus see God doing? Could God the Father have been like Jesus once? Certainly there are two separate beings in this situation. The observer and the observed.
Luke 3:22 (NKJV) And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased
Again three separate individuals.
1 John 3:2 New American Standard Bible) Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is
When He appears we shall be like Him. Again what does this say about what God is like?
God is a spirit
As Jesus spoke this He (God) had a body of flesh and blood. After His resurrection He ate fish and honey just to make sure it was crystal clear. The Holy Spirit s a spirit and God.
God is not a man that he should lie.
Not sure what the contradiction is here. It certainly doesn’t invalidate all the other parts of scripture from above.
Why don’t Evangelical Christians embrace the idea of a Prophet or of personal revelation?
The book of Acts shows us several instances of a very specific organized structure and authority to the Church after Jesus ascended into heaven.
Peter in Acts 10 receives revelation that changes the way the church operates. Isn’t God unchanging? If so then why don’t Christians reject this chapter of the Bible? Christians don’t believe in prophets who received revelation directly from God and yet somehow believe in this chapter of the Bible. I just don’t get it. If you are a true Christian trying to live the Bible then where are your Prophets or Apostles with authority to receive revelation for the Church directly from Jesus Christ?
Simon in Acts 8 -
Acts 8:17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. (NIV) - First of all when did someone place their hands on you so that you received the Holy Spirit? If you believe the Bible why isn’t this a common practice in the Christian Church? Second as we read the rest of the chapter we can clearly see that only those with authority can do this. Who in your Church has the authority to do this? Are you just going to ignore the parts of the Bible that you don’t understand or don’t like?
Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
I don’t have all the answers for you Mr. Russell but I love the way you are digging into the nuances and searching for truth in Christianity. There are lots of amazing Christian apologists to help answer some of these questions. William Lane Craig, Frank Turik, Mike Licona, Gary Habermas, and many others should be able to specifically address your questions.
I do hope that once you’ve smartly and rightly scrutinized the authenticity and claims of Christianity that you can do the very same thing with the claims of Joseph Smith and the LDS doctrines. If you truly are on a search for truth, you have to judge all worldviews and claims by the same criteria before you can render a fair and reasonable conclusion. May God bless your search.
@@dustyrose5994 I am genuinely curious in individual Christians experiences. If you are willing to share, how do you know the Bible is the Word of God?
@@robertrussell7468 For the Old Testament I find the astronomical odds of the Bible being able to predict all that it did about the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus to be absolutely compelling. Every single prophecy came true and they were written thousands of years before Jesus. In my mind that cannot be explained except that God inspired their writings. For the New Testament we don’t have as much real world evidence in the same sense as the old. But, we do have lots of data supporting the historical claims of the New Testament, meaning what they claim happened did in fact happen. They have proven truthful in all things that we can corroborate. So if they are true in those, and the disciples were willing to die for the things they were writing, then I am willing to believe in the divine nature of the scriptures. And if I believe it, then I look at how the Bible describes itself. And in numerous places in the New Testament it says that these words are God-breathed. Other Christians May have different answers but that’s how I know the Bible is the Word of God.
@@dustyrose5994 thank you for sharing that with me. I appreciate you taking the time and it is interesting to hear your experience.
Pray for me. The first thought through my mind during the beard product promo when he said, "... or as a gift for someone you know who has a beard....", was, 'hey, Mother's Day is coming soon'.
Does that mean I'm going to heck?🤣🤣🤣
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition:
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Thy money perish with thee because thou hast thought that the gift of God can be purchased with money.
I agree with you guys that God's immutability is of huge importance. What do you guys think about the book from Jeffrey Johnson "the failure of natural theology".
I'm around half-way through Johnson's book currently; don't yet have super developed thoughts on the issue. I think that lots of Johnson's critiques of AQUINAS'S thinking (specifically) are totally valid; but some of the trinitarian elements referenced seem to precede Aquinas and aren't inherently based on natural theology. But regardless - I don't think that an aquinian paradigm is the only consistent way to hold to immutability. Christians can cling to an immutability of nature/being/will even if they reject "Thomism."
@@GLM the Trinitarian elements in his book are quite new to the church. Many including myself would not agree with how the trinity is used to show God moves within the trinity. His book here has come under some scrutiny however because of how badly he misrepresents Aquinas. Josh somers and a friend of mine asked the author if he's ever read Aquinas and it was clear from reading the book he hadn't. Thanks for getting back to me I liked what you said in the video about immutability I would continue to hold to that.
They have recently backed off of polygamy-sort of weaseled out of it. And yes the only reason they would go back to it is social pressure or some other benefit to the church. This is super crazy gaslighting to me as a fifth generation member who lived her whole life dreading sharing her husband with unnumbered wives for eternity.
If I told you I was anti Jesus Christ but then I told you that I love Christians what would you think? If you are anti Mormonism you are anti Mormon.
Ecclesiastes 3:15: “That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been; and God seeks what has been driven away.” The “natural man” cannot grasp that, for to him reality is based only on the evidence of the senses. The man of reason could justify the verse’s end, saying if it has any meaning then the writer must mean recurrence. The sun comes every day and the moon completes its cycle and the seasons come and go. If we took a picture of the universe today, the scientists can compute how long it will take to return to this point in the picture. So the intellectual man could justify the verse; but that is not what is meant, for it is addressed not to the man of reason or the man of sense, but to the man of Imagination. What is it all about? “That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been, and God seeks what has been driven away.”
you wake and destroy saved ignorance to Christ in all man, that laughs at you pros..
It depends on what you mean by Christian. If you mean Protestant or Evangelical then no Mormons are not Christian. If you mean a true Christian meaning Christ's official church then yes Mormons are Christian. To a Mormon a Protestant or Evangelical is not a Christian but to say that would be confusing. So Latter Day Saints are Christians but not Protestants or Evangelical.
When LDS people leave the church one of the main reasons they leave religion in general is because the church is so overbearing and demanding they just get burned out on religion. Those that are still interested in religion tend to turn to one of the denominations like Catholicism or Orthodox instead of non-denominational evangelical because they've had negative experiences with evangelicals in the past, even more so now with all the Trump worship that tends to go on among evangelicals. There are also a fair number that seek spirituality in pagan traditions.
As an added note, the LDS church preaches that God is unchanging and already knows everything, not that he's continuing to learn. The church preaches that God gives the church new revelation not because God is learning new things, but because he's sharing more of what he already knows with the church.
Political issues aside, if you want to convert LDS people to your faith it matters how you talk about them and the assertions you make about what they believe, especially if those assertions aren't completely accurate, because even if that LDS person eventually leaves the church and is looking for another church to go to, they'll remember how you talked about them before and won't be interested in whatever you're offering.
When most of members leave the LDS church, is mostly because they want to have some taste of the world, or some sin they cannot deal with, so they want to live by their own path
@@Therealgpack That's actually incorrect. When LDS leave the church, for the vast majority it's because they've done research about the church's history and the behavior of the church's leaders, with more historical records and documented activities available now than ever before. They've discovered through all the scholarship and historical records now available that the Book of Abraham is a fraud and the Book of Mormon isn't what it claims to be. That is the main reason most people are leaving the church. History, truth, and the behavior of the leaders.
I think as long as the Mormon church has the "Book of Mormon" they will always be "Mormons" it's something that will never go away. As long as they believe in the Book of "Mormon" this is what started the whole thing, made it different from Bible christianity and not solid bible believers. Tge pick abd choose scripture from each book ti believe. So, they can't be offended by the word mormon. Just common sense.
@Apologia Studios
It seems that anytime you try to prove to the LDS that they believe in a different Jesus it’s hard to get thru. The one doctrine they believe is Celestial Marriage. This is the one thing their entire theological views revolve around.
Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
These are Jesus’s own words if they don’t accept that then they believe in a different Jesus it makes it very clear to them. Arguing about the nature of god or the trinity just seems to go in circles with them but them denying his own words that are so clear shows them how different their doctrine is. Simply asking them if they believe Matthew 22:30 shows they don’t believe in the biblical Jesus. Their entire theology falls apart with that one scripture. Being raised LDS I know that was the biggest one for me to really see how different LDS doctrine is. The entire faith revolves around marriage in heaven. That disproves their preexistence, post-existence, temple work, exhalation everything is gone by that one verse. You don’t even have to move to another scriptural reference just stay on that.
What's the typical LDS apologetic response to this scripture?
That it’s not accurate and was mistranslated.
@@davericard2020 That's one response, but not the main one. This scripture is addressed in D&C 132. Look on fairLDS or in Jesus the Christ where this was addressed in 1915. Many apostles and prophets have quoted this. It's not even seen as an issue.
So exactly my point you believe in a different Jesus. You believe in the Jesus that wasn’t enough and needs Joseph Smith to come along and fix everything he neglected to tell us. That’s a different Jesus. My Jesus was enough.
@Matthew Cable
Of course they don’t think it’s a big deal. They definitely wouldn’t say it was now would they. It’s pretty typical for LDS leaders to not disclose things. Like it’s also not a big deal that Joseph used a Seer Stone to translate yet that’s witchcraft. Not a big deal so much of not a big deal I’m sure they would be willing to change all the pictures in Wardhouses to show Joseph’s head buried in a hat. Like Emma, Oliver and Martin said how it was done. That’s not a big deal just a little lie right?
Please look into the church of prismatic light. It’s a new thing.
Is it a requirement to be covered in ink like the rest of the depraved world if you want to be a Calvinist?
I've watched many of these videos with Jeff Durbin on this UA-cam channel. He seems to have a real problem with Mormons believing we can become gods. The scriptures make it clear that this is possible, if you apply common sense. For instance, Rev 3: 20-22, speaks about how if we overcome (the world) we will sit with Christ upon his throne as the father (God) sits on his throne. How can we not become a god as we literally sit upon the throne of Christ as well on the throne with God the father? It is actually blasphemy and satanic to believe we cannot eternally progress to become a god. Satan wants you to believe this is not possible!! He does not want you to believe and progress to become like God. Let me explain: Does God the father (because he is a god) have a fullness of joy? YES! Does he have a fullness of love? YES! Does he have a fullness of happiness? YES! Does he have a fullness of power, knowledge and wisdom? YES! Absolutely 100% He possesses all of these attributes because he is a God!! AS OUR FATHER IN HEAVEN, HE WANTS US HIS CHILDREN TO OBTAIN THESE SAME ATRRIBUTES. Thats what a loving father wants for their children!! If you don't believe that we go through an eternal progression to obtain and become like God, then you believe in a god that's says, you will never obtain my fullness of happiness, joy, love, power, wisdom and knowledge. You will just be a slave robot that will never progress and grow and learn. you will be damned and never able to progress FOR ETERNITY. THINK ABOUT IT, FOR ETERNITY. Does that sound like a god you want to worship that says, sorry, you will never become like me and experience all of my joys and happiness. What kind of earthly father would tell his children, sorry kids, you're going to be my slave robot. I don't want you to ever experience and become like me. I will never share with you and teach you all the things that have made me successful, happy and full of joy. I want the absolute worst for you, I want you to never progress in life or become better. I don't want to see you progress and become truly happy and full of joy. Not believing that we can become like God is like telling your son, sorry son, you can never be a father like me and have children like me. What kind of earthly father would that be? a DOWNRIGHT HORRIBLE FATHER!! Doesn't a father want the best for their children? Why should it be any different from our Heavenly Father? GOD WANTS US TO BECOME LIKE HIM, LIKE A GOD!!! common sense, people!!! Don't listen to Mr. Durbin's toxic teachings about Mormonism. He doesn't know what he is talking about!!!
Your definition of heaven is actually hell, if you believe we cannot become like God, A GOD!! Hell is where you are damned and can never progress to experience true joy and happiness. Jeff Durbin's definition of heaven is actually in reality, HELL. because he does not believe in eternal progression to become a god. He believes in damnation of individuals. NO PROGRESSION!! NO GODHOOD!! . I can't imagine living with a selfish god and being in heaven where i will be damned for eternity. Never Able TO BECOME LIKE MY FATHER IN HEAVEN and eternally progress to obtain his awesome attributes. The fact that The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is the Only CHURCH that teaches this doctrine should open your eyes to the truthfulness of this church. Man, apply some common sense. Just take time to think about it! We are not saying that we will replace God one day and surpass him, all we are saying is that we can become like him. When I became a father, I didn't replace my dad or get rid of him, I learned from him and enjoyed my experiences that brought me closer to him because I became a father too.
Here is a truth bomb, Mr. Durbin. ELOHIM IS ACTUALLY PLURAL. IT IS A HEBREW WORD MEANING GODS. IT IS GRAMMATICALLY PLURAL NOUN FOR GODS OR DEITIES IN BIBLICAL HEBREW. DO A WIKIPEDIA SEARCH OF THE WORD ELOHIM. Yes, there will be many Gods!!! Just like there are many fathers here on earth. Just like we can become a father on earth, we can become a God if we so choose and desire.
You had to add to Rev 3 20-22 to make it seem like you become gods but in Isaiah 43: 10 says Before me no god was formed, nor shall there be any after me. Also in Isaiah 44:8 Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, . . . There are so many verses that talk about Yahweh being the one and only God. What you are talking about unbiblical. And it is no where in the bible but is in the king follett discord states that.
This is like watching three white supremacists discuss how white privilege is not real.
Grace and mercy is a limited application, the correct christian explanation is a required belief winning grace and mercy is funny emotionally proved door for no pagans, no Mormons, cult worship, proper churches do need rejects qualified ignorance to the risk involved flunks. Neville Goddard taught a truth beyond classic christians condemning others with leavened beliefs with strong soft approved truth only they dare claim righteous opinions over grace and mercy requirments to be able to apply.
Your classic repeaters with secular histories for flesh truth than is defeated, Christ in man does trap christians gospel of special works.
Please stop leading Latter-day Saints astray! :(
Leaders have even said that it’s fine how members have different worldviews!. And yet if you have outspoken traditional family values you get marginalized. That is what has happened to us after raising our big family in the church. It’s incredibly heartbreaking.