Is your music just a beat, just a vibe or a work of art?
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- Опубліковано 12 вер 2024
- Is your music ready to mix, master and make its way in the world? Talking about what makes a complete work. Also a bit of a dive into reader's comments, and the 90's hip hop world colliding with 80's studio archetypes...
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TONY BLACK is a Grammy-winning music producer, mixer/engineer & songwriter/musician. He has contributed to recordings totaling more than 80 million units sold or downloaded.
He won a GRAMMY AWARD for his contribution to the album “THE DIARY OF ALICIA KEYS” for BEST R&B ALBUM.
He also mixed and recorded “RIDE OR DIE” on the Grammy-winning album JAY-Z “HARD KNOCK LIFE VOL.2”
The voice in my head when I get stuck on a four bar loop
😂✊️
When Tony black posts my stress levels go down .
thats interesting!
When you said " you should be listening to music that you like through your studio monitors in your studio environment " that set it off for me because that is something I have not been doing . That makes so much sense 🤯
Yes, that is the real meaning of the term "referencing" (nothing to do with A-Bing - which is a bad call)
I spent close to 20 years not releasing anything because I thought it wasn't ready. I wish the rest of the world had the same level of discipline, hah!
I really enjoy the fact that your channel is so heavily based on the philosophy of music making. That's where the real meat is. So many youtube videos are tutorial based, and thats similar to me as the parable of giving a man a fish. The philosophy will teach us to fish rather than just immediately feeding us. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
Refreshing way to start my Saturday creative day! Thank you! I really like the format of this video too! Philosophy plus comment q&a. Great balance of thought provoking inspiration and value. Thank you for sharing your experience and ideas.
There's generally two types of hip-hop listeners; Lyrics first or beats first. Safe to say the beats first people are the ones that aspire to produce/beatmake, at least the majority. So for "us" the best hip-hop songs are the ones that make you "need" the instrumental. If you're like me you've gone through great lengths to track down instrumentals and instrumental albums make up much of your favorites. Thats where I try to start with every beat, even if its made for lyrics with sections of 16 bars it should stand on its own as an instrumental. Im not comfortable with a beat until it names itself, then often it takes on a theme, that theme might direct me to more sounds or samples to incorporate, scratch phrases etc. Hard to get professional feedback on just this aspect, which I guess would be the composition itself.
@@ItsTheFuzzMan This!
Yes.Yes.and every once in a while.
As a ‘hobbyist’ myself.
That’s the typical ’workflow’ for me and it just is or it isn’t…till it is.
This is the exact video I needed to see right here. Gracias, Tony.
Thank you! The information that you provided is right on time! Really appreciate your video and channel! Subscribed.
Some real stuff apreciate it
If my track isn’t ready to be mixed, I know while I’m putting it together and if I’m not feeling it, I forget about it, before I even think about the mix.
sometimes when you come back to a discarded idea, it comes to life.
if you got a good mix and it satisfying after that start mastering.
the problem with production today is lack of education and music theory
Thanks for your interesting and insightful thoughts, as always, Tony. I spent a few days a couple weeks ago with Joe Barresi in his studio and had some really cool discussions with him about this issue you've mentioned many times: the creative tension as an artist between doing something novel, different, unique, and perhaps never heard before in making your music while also still doing something that is recognized and understood by the audience. I like to bend and break the rules of music composition, theory, and production, but if you bend or break too many things at once you likely just won't be liked. Your point about having a recognizable backbone melodic or rhythmic "narrative" (or hook) makes a lot of sense. I've noticed many great songwriters have a version of this concept they talk about, across all genres. Cheers.
cheers!
I make the music on the GarageBand app on the iPhone and record vocals on it. There are 3rd party plugins for vocal enhancements like compression, EQ etc in the App Store. Obviously I play my music to hear what I’ve done and my neighbours always ask if I’m working on music. I enjoy making music.
Oh man definitely I only have pieces like lots of puzzle pieces. Sometimes I actually feel like it's a box with overwhelming numbers and I don't know which piece to start with. Great video Tony 👍🍻
Starts with sound selection and a good recording first
Crazy, I would have thought that most artists would only want the mixing engineer to improve/balance the sonics of the track. Beyond that it's like asking the engineer to be part of the group.
I think it's more posed toward daw based musicians who think if they can get a good mix it will be a good track. But you can't polish a turd. A bad track is a bad track. It's just going to be a louder turd.
@@js78910less mixing tutorials, more songwriting and composition tutorials
This discussion makes me think of Richard Burgess’ book, the art of music production.
don't know of it, but I'll check it out. thanks.
ima millennial but I grew up in studio bcuz of father , this used to be common knowledge .... a lot of songs these days are actually being made in the mixing process and that the problem a huge problem... rn the patch bay is like rocket science to a lot of people my age and younger. and these ppl are getting KICKED OUT of sessions im in L.A. im in the mix out here and I see it a lot . I booked an 8hr block an the engineer on duty to (to record if needed) didn't know how to hook up the PREAMP TO THE MIC IN THE BOOTH!!! I had to waste 30-45 min of my own paid time untangling wires to route it correctly for use . there's a knowledge barrier and gap across the whole INDUSTRY right now that MUST BE ADDRESSED....
w0w. really? and I'm sitting at home thinking I can't get work because I'm deaf and mental. to be fair I don't need a patch bay now I route everything through my ssl six and my mpc1000. I have my connections cascading, sound sources into ssl six then two channels into the interface, then two channels into the 1000 then two channels into the interface and two channels into the sp404 and the outs from that into the interface. it works beautifully to be fair.
@@3DomTV im sure it does for your custom setup at home . sounds like a small headache . im sure not to you though. in major studios where the users of the studio is constantly changing. there just needs to be a somewhat organized patch bay because everyone is different and outboard chains can get wild and messy quickly. tbh the introduction of cat 5 cable into the studio world is a game changer and I cant wait until its standard everywhere. im in the research process of converting my room to it rn I believe one cat 5 cable can handle 10-16 channels of audio . with basically 0 noise floor and network connection capabilities .. I could have my patch bay on a private server and create a vocal chain from anywhere in the world LOL
Great, really enjoyed this. Would love to see a similar video addressing the track vs song topic but focussed on the tensions between composition and production instead of mixing/mastering. Would be interested to hear your thoughts/insights on how good composition or production has contributed to a 'great work' and comparing the two processes. Cheers!
I would say that there are many songs out there with hooks that sound like garbage too- just cause a song has a hook or chorus that can be hummed to doesn’t make it good. A song with a “vibe” can actually be better if that “vibe” provokes strong enough emotion to connect with the listener, esp within certain kinds of hip hop music..a lot of conscious rap nowadays and underground rap doesn’t even have traditional hooks, but is far more substantial and impactful than songs with hooks that are getting pushed to “the masses”. I would also argue that some songs that get to the masses have a hook or chorus in them to actually make up for the lack of substance in the actual song, because the vibe of the song is either corny or watered down.
Totally agree with this
I have been saying this publically for 10-20 years now and mostly got ignored, abused, or told I have no idea (by ppl who have no music to show but are great at being populist asswipes who like to mislead each other).
The best way to get a great Master - deliver a great Mix
The best way to get a great Mix - deliver a great Performance
The best way to get a great Performance - deliver a great Composition
Cut corners anywhere and it gets worse the further you go down the line.
A Master can never fix a song with no melody, harmony, variation, or rhythm (greater than doof, doof).
:-)
I’m with you all the way on this. I’m an amateur beatmaker hobbyist and I don’t consider myself a musician or artist even though I’ve played instruments in the past and grew up in a musical household. I work in the box with no actual studio experience. I’m literally just programming and creating vibes. And it’s all a learning process as I go. I would never consider sending just a “vibe” to a pro like yourself. Thanks for this!
That thumbnail is art!! Great pic man.
Quality video as always.
Herb Powers is my favorite mastering engineer
You the man 🫡
Great discussion, and agree with everything said.
I'm not the first to do this but listening to your track in a very average car stereo is extremely helpful in analyzing what works and what needs work.
This is after you've mixed it on studio speakers of course...
The algorithm brought me here. Subscribed.
your algo is good!!!
I spend months polishing an hour of music for three virtual thumbs ups(not even real thumbs ups) and then i make a silly sped up music exercise clip and it blows up 😂 😢 I don't know what the algorithm gods want....but I'm not interested in what they seem to offer anyway. I only upload music to make space on my hard drive now.
Thanks for the insights ❤
video just popped from nothing... nice to watch ur perspective whats close to mine. I will not say I hate but when someone who make only beats tell me they artist idk its bother me a bit... I see beats as a product just that Im not even talk about how ppl made certain work of art but idk if that dont tell me or fit in a storie for me its just noises and I easily leave it to go away.
I totally get where you’re coming from, Tony.
Love these first hand insights. Was there competition or politics amongst engineers during that time? Did you talk to each other? Were you all in your own lanes? Keep it as diplomatic as you like.
serious competition
Yep, time to check out my favorite hiphop channel
Interested to know what your thoughts on MF Dooms special herbs instrumental album, does that check all the boxes? To me it does.
Food for thought here, another dope video.
Quick question - I wonder how much of the 90’s sound you would attribute to samples coming directly from vinyl breaks compared to all the digital sources for sampling probably most people use these days?
Personally I still find sampling from wax feels and sounds more legit, but would using say, some artificial crackle and pop and various plugins achieve the same depth of texture and 'warmth'? Just curious!
Peace
there's a lot to that...I'll get into it more soon. thanks.
@@TonyBlackNYCAh, nice ok :)
Why do you think people believe the mix will fix their problem? I don't have too much pride to avoid admitting that I am guilty of it as well when I'm making tracks. And despite knowing the track isnt really a "song" yet I too go immediately towards the mixing to solve that issue. I just wonder why so many of us (especially amongst the younger generation) are so intent on believing the mix will fix the problem
Lots of reasons....some you mentioned, others are : mixers selling the dream, bad info, hope, etc...I'll get into more of this I'm sure
Thanks for the reply on that backstory! I appreciate your perspective of that early era. Ironically I think I'd be the "I can't take this lifestyle get me outa here" type, and would've gone into mastering. Like you said, in hindsight that would've been a nice cushy gig but teenage/early 20s me had -1000 foresight 😅
Great talk thanks for puttin it our there
Thanks Tony.
I am a beat maker, song writer and used to play bars around town. Anyway, beats are beats. It can be an instrumental/lofi which sounds good and is infact a finished product but I do have beats ready for MCs / singers which are just instrumentals and not finished products. I mean how can they be finished? They are missing all the most important information. They might be great but without the right /best vocalist or story teller they will never be complete.
I think you have mentioned it in the past Tony, that the vocalist is probably the most important on the track (mostly hiphop even though this is not a hiphop channel)
As for mixing , it took me many years to acknowledge I can't polish a turd!
Tony have you ever spoke on the subject of taking care of your ears? What I mean you could have the best equipment but its worthless without a good set of healthy ears. Could you speak about keeping your ears in there best health. What do you think?
I will get to that thanks.
Another great one
This's been something I've tried to balance a ton. Lately I've been trying to go with The Alchemist approach of stopping once something evokes a powerful emotion, but if I'm honest I'm basing most of it off of my audience's satisfaction. All that's before rappers hop on it too, so it's definitely a balancing act haha. Constantly learning and adjusting.
Dude your beats are dope.
@@js78910 preciate it man
What about a Conductor Williams who makes a lot of 4 bar loops? What about Accordion by Madvillain? What about The Alchemist's beats? I'm just curious where the line is
i tend to agree with these old white dudes most of the time, but i feel you. you should see what beato has to say about this.
@@dylanshakib2374 I think the point is that if the track is supposed to be simple and works that way then good, but don't send in a 4 bar loop and expect the mastering engineer to send back a DJ Shadow type beat.
I prefer OG.. OWD kinda stings, lol.
@@JamBurglar I feel it!
@@TonyBlackNYC I thought it was mean
Fair play
Cheers🎉
I approve this message… LOL nice Tony Black!
you know!
Great topic, is a backing track just waiting for vocals or is a backing track a idea of the music
With the notion that even the "greats" don't write bangers every time, I think what your saying here is extremely important and needs consideration by EVERY artist, but this shouldn't prohibit art to be made, because even the most amateur song or instrumental can have a profound affect on a listener.
I'm an amateur and have released over 200 "things." 😂 This description is meant for the most critical analyzers. I consider it music, as does 200 or so listeners a week. Not much. To make a point here, Nearly every song I believe to be amazing, flops upon release, while the ones I do not enjoy nearly as much, garner the most love and listens.
This is an exceptionally good video. I appreciate your support to our community
keep making art, and keep getting better
@@TonyBlackNYC Thank you.
I feel you on your message, my question is what examples are you referring to as vibes ? I am asking because A Tribe Called Quest music was very vibey. Many of their tracks were of different vibes. During their time, no engineer wanted to work with them, because of that reason, their music is just a vibe, hip hop was a phase not real music and hip hop was associated with gangsters and BS. Bob Powers broke that stereotype with The Low End Theory, one of the most iconic hip hop albums ever. I am assuming that you are getting so much garbage thrown your way, until you had to make a statement on it 😂🤣. I see you have "Hard Knock Life" on you resume, another hip hop milestone. Great work by the way !!!
Tribe of course has vibe but by no means is their work not complete works...they didn't want to work on hip hop for a variety of reasons, some I covered in the video.
I'll go deeper on this in the future, thanks
Tony, I'm guessing that the difference in this context is similar to how one might view a potential movie, tv show, play, etc.: it's either already on the page to begin with or it's not. And, if it's not, then great artists can't change that fact.
correct sir!
Great talk 📡📡 subscribe 👍🏿
I need an evaluation! For science, lol!!! I go by ear. 😮 I got a few on SoundCloud but I don’t even know if the mix was even ready and of course most of them sound different in your car as opposed to ear buds. Thanks T
No monitors as of yet
Sorry you covered this by It just translates better on my earbuds and my creative 2.1’s. And the creatives have more of a detailed sound like the earbuds. Just hits different in the car
phone translation: more than likely u cant hear the bass on the phone , make sure you're adding information to kick or sub in that low mid - hi lo area 120-250hz area , intentionally as well no big curves . find the exact space for it . cause its easy to get muddy in that area
Don't add or subtract anything if you don't have the monitoring for it. And monitoring real low end (below 80) is generally extremely expensive... At best, you could get some headphones like NDH 30s ($650) or MM100s ($400), but even those dont conpare to LCD5s ($4.5k) or MM500s ($1.7k), or any combination of speakers, EXCELLENT room treatment, and interfaces, which will literally run you 20k minimum
@@django3108 u can do it w/ 25$ Jvc headphones from best buy like me u just need to know what your listening for. and learn what your speakers or headphones sound like . having expensive reference system is never the problem. LEARNING FREQUENCIES AND WHAT THEY ACTUALLY DO is what most people lack u can Get a radio mix In ear buds if you actually know whats going on. believe me , I've seen it / and im sure Tony would agree, having the correct knowledge on the FREQ. spectrum and how to manipulate it iS THE REAL KEY . when that is conquered mixing feels like using a paint brush . opposed to the beginning stages that feel like a comparison war . where you are just constantly trying to match something to your favorite industry mix. instead of creating your OWN style of industry mix ...
Thank you for this, Mr. Black. Do you have any advice on writing lyrics, when the instrumental is already presented as a complete thought?
write, and rewrite...thats what I've seen work
@@TonyBlackNYC Thank you
What is that mastering piece of equipment that can raise and lower vocals or sounds on a 2 track? I heard KLC talk about it once.
not sure what piece he was referring to
50% of albums put out aren't ready and will never be ready. 90% of beats I hear, go nowhere, let alone ready for mixing.
Most of the greatest hiphop songs in history had beats that went no where. They are mostly 8 bar loops with dropouts, filter sweeps, and various background fx, vocal phrases, and scratching. If you're making beats for people you're pretty much making a shell of a song. The rest is up to the artist.
@@js78910 agreed...I was more referring to the unreleased beats I hear from producers, on Patreon and in groups. Maybe its not 90%, that was a bit harsh.. more like 75%...
What I want to know is whether New West get a range of clearance requests after you post this.
not sure what this means
@@TonyBlackNYC Chuck Prophet's label. I'd wager your background image inspires current-day beat makers.
@@publicintox that would be amazing. He's such a talent. I'd love it if I could help him in any way. thanks.
Tony black
brilliant comment!
If the track is shit you can't shine it
but it still works. these days most music is just advertising for a live tour
Ariana Grande - we can’t be friends
that song has huge streaming numbers
but breaks every rule Tony talks about
the music is expendable.
the vocal is +6db over the music.
It sounds like a vocal demo track
@@johnviera3884 the end consumers are mostly kids ¡
The AG track isn't awful...and she's already in the machine, so keep that in mind.
@@TonyBlackNYC what do you think of that mix? why is the vocal so loud? it’s disrespectful to the music producer.
@@johnviera3884 I agree the mix is not great...I don't like much about the whole thing, but I get why it has some success...she's in the machine.