This is what made 90's hip hop beats different
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- Опубліковано 11 чер 2024
- in this quick video I discuss the myths and truths about 90's hip-hop beats and the producers and samplers that made all the difference. It includes a deep dive into the Akai MPC60, MPC3000 and others. Mentioned are JDILLA, RZA, Swizz Beatz, Stevie J and others that I worked with a bunch.
buymeacoffee.com/tonyblacknyc
TONY BLACK is a Grammy-winning music producer, mixer/engineer & songwriter/musician. He has contributed to recordings totaling more than 80 million units sold or downloaded.
He won a GRAMMY AWARD for his contribution to the album “THE DIARY OF ALICIA KEYS” for BEST R&B ALBUM.
He also mixed and recorded “RIDE OR DIE” on the Grammy-winning album JAY-Z “HARD KNOCK LIFE VOL.2”
I'll try to keep up with this and get into some more soon, thanks for the engagement.
Why not release a sample pack ? That would be great
@@mustardegg2 go dig for your sounds…
lOVE THIS 90S HIP HOP INSIGHT. WE NEED MORE !!
You don't half talk a lot of shite. You make some good points then just waffle all over them
Engineers the unsung heroes of 90s hiphop
Absolutely. I used to check credits for engineers in the 80s and 90s. Joe ‘the butcher’ Nicolo, Howie Weinberg , Bob Power and a host of others that I can’t remember, due to my age!
Still are now, especially today the beats are carrying these “rappers”
Engineers are unsung heroes of any thing ever
Considering your background and work experience, I really appreciate your time breaking all this down. In light of all these video's that attempt to demonstrate Dillas' technique. One thing almost none of them mention is the most important thing but you said it, "You dont have Dillas' ear" I salute you for that alone!
much appreciated-tb
Damn I had no idea that the MPC had 96 pulses per quarter note. Thanks for taking the time to upload this and share the knowledge. Amazing.
Thanks for the reminder of how special the 90s were in Hip-Hop. Creativity was at an amazing peak for producers back then.
it CANT come back because it was made by different people with different background in a different age group...i dont nderstand this hangup with hip hop...that sliek saying we want "New Wave" to come back...as if Adam Ant, Cyndy Lauper, Duran Duran and Culture Club can becomne 20 years old agin...
music keep smoving..hip hop doesnt exist anymore...just liek my grandad listend to BB King, Huddy Ledbetter, which turned into Little Richard which turned into James Brown for my parents which turned into Donna Sumemr and Disco or Jimmy HEndrix...
you guys need to stop with this trying to recapture the past...music lives in the current of whatever HONEST spirit creates it at the MOMENT...it doesnt stay in one place or even go backward
This is real knowledge from an actual professional. Earned a sub.
do not take tips from this guy, hahaha
I have the mpc live 2. It does so many things that don’t interest me but it does one thing I love and that is chopping music into beats. I’m a total novice but I feel that after playing music and playing in bands for 30 plus years, this creativity still inspires me.
Learn it, it’s worth it. Trust me. Watch Tubedigga vids
Ha ha, true. Incidentally I took an old track that was mixed with SMPTE chasing, put into Cubase Pro and did tempo mapping. The tempo drift I saw blew my mind. Even old drum machines on their own clock moves around a little.
it was the influence of jazz vibes, jazz grooves and jazz samples that made the 1990s for Hiphop so good, Jazz music is the Usa most famous music around the world. Hiphop producers rediscovered it again and inserted into the hiphop program
Great conversation! Thank you!
This was great! More hip hop talk please
Great video, I appreciate your insight. I've read that Paul's Boutique would lose around 20 million if it was made today factoring in the cost of the over 100 samples having to be cleared. I understand they did clear the samples back then (eventually) but the cost was much lower at the time, around $250,000. Subbed.
high-value content. thank you for uploading.
You’re so right about the “drift” of the 60/3K.
But I never knew why.
Even “stiff” songs like Mary J/ Dr Dre “Family Affair” had live feel movement. (3K).
You’d have to listen to the whole song to notice it.
There were times when I’d be driving when it would dawn on me….
“That’s an MPC!”
Out of nowhere.
So subtle.
Hey, I wonder what the human brain’s timing resolution is set to?
Ray Charles could detect the slightest “drift” in his band and would get pissed off when it missed.
James Brown also.
I kinda have that sensitivity.
You can keep your notes.
If the timing ain’t right you failed 😂.
So drum machines? Love at first listen.
As far back as Sly Stones family affair.
Thanks for explaining the mult's process.
it seems like I might have to get into it a bit more...it was a big part of things for sure.
Loved hearing your knowledge
And nice tip at the end
Fantastic video, my man! Eye-opening, for sure.
I think you're on to something with this drift theory
it is nerdy, but in a musical way, it makes perfect sense. I'm going to do a little more about the MPC again soon.
Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing!
Love this guy! On point with the drifting. Akai vs Roland. Great video.!
Thank you for some of the gems you dropped. There is a lot ideas of how to do sound design and tape saturation to enhance sounds!
Thanks for the insight Tony! Love all the Mixing, Mastering, Quantization, Sample usage, Hard Work, HOURS spent, etc that yall used and continue to use to make the magic happen. God Bless! 🙏 for more cups of coffee coming your way!
Instant sub! Keep these vids up Tony, some of us need these discussions/lessons!
Yes, nudging was done to add feel, but many samples weren't sampled cleanly, and any extra space before a sample's initial transient would change a sample's timing. It's virtually impossible to edit samples cleanly on most samplers before the mid-90s, as few provided visual waveform representation.
Also, the resolutions of low sample rate samples are low. So, there is no capacity for truly fine-pitch sample editing.
you hit some key points...I'll attempt to get into them in the future vids. thanks. tb
This isn’t true … at all i chop on a dime beat in my 60 no pops or clicks … you should use one some time and same with an sp1200
Dude that is gold!!!!!
Very informative. I love this type of stuff.
Thanks for demystifying this.
You popped up in my feed today.awesome.subscribed.
Great insights thank you!
Re: where drums sounds were sourced from -- you're, right of course. In my area, every producer was on their own to find drum breaks/hits (from vinyl) BUT... the "Ultimate Breaks and Beats" series ran from 86-91.
I assume that, at the time, if you were (more) connected you would have had access to all those juicy breaks... on vinyl or a second-hand cassette.
I remember one of the old engineers at recording school talking about all this stuff. But it wasn't in class, just an off the cuff conversation in the hallway. I feel like I learned more techniques and tricks from over hearing this guy reminisce than any of the actual classes. Specifically processing drums through the console and using the tone generator to add a sine wave sub-bass to kicks. printing Time code to tape may be less relevant now but knowing about how it works is so important especially when understanding how many things where designed to sync . Thanks for keeping this kind of knowledge out there. The "lore" is important and informative.
Awesome info cheers!!!!
Such insight into the process of classic beat making and also a coffee machine review.
Valuable insight. 👍🏽
thanks and happy it worked for ya.
Great stuff Tony Black! Good to see this.
I know you! thanks!
Always wondered or the break drops where done programmatically in the sequencer or muting the channels on the console.
on the desk...coming soon I'll talk about it
Thank you Tony Black
I know he is successful, but Swizz Beatz tracks just don't do it for me, except for some of the DMX stuff. Tried listening to the LOX second album ( we are the streets)and them beats are Casio keyboard sounding and have not aged well at all. Thin and weak dollar shop sound
He has a unique style, technique...I can't disagree, but the winners write the history books.
Roland jv2080
@@raypeakes4600 I guess you know the story of someone who sampled the trumpet demo? Swizz used MPC, Trinity and 2080...maybe 1080 too. He had an odd way of sampling
@@TonyBlackNYC I was surprised when I bought my JV that the audition loop was a swizz beats banger. That's the sign of a great piece of inspiration
@@raypeakes4600 thats not really the way it went down...its quite a story, look into it.
let me know if you find out.
Damn, he answers all the questions i had since 20 years making Beats!
this is great. thank you!
This is a really cool video! Thanks!
This was interesting… keep doing them 💪🏾
🔥Thank you.
ThankS for this man
Wow! What a recommendation! Sometimes UA-cam can throw us a gem. I don't even own, or use an MPC, but still an interesting video/channel. Definitely subscribing
I’ve been producing hiphop for over 25 years and parts of this just blew my mind. Thanks Tony!
P.S - Krups were great consumer coffee machines 20 years ago. Buy a cheap Ranchillio Siliva and learn to cycle, you won’t regret it.
I'll check out the Siliva
@@TonyBlackNYC I recommend buying an older (used, non digital) reconditioned model for cheap. Silvia’s seem to be going through the same analogue/digital transition that audio gear did back in the day.
Ranchillio are like the SSL of coffee machines and the old Silvia’s are like if SSL released a consumer model back in the 90s/early 2000s (get to know the quirks, make classics).
Pair it with a doserless rocky grinder and you got two solid bits of kit for your daily brew (buy used with new burrs and replace them in 15 years, haha).
Learn/treat these machines like audio gear and you’ll have friends knocking for brews man!
For fun, google Rancillio z9 (the eagle) for some coffee gear porn, haha. The best, and cheapest, coffee I had in Italy was pulled on one of these machines!
The Coffee tech and audio tech evolution is so similar. I think you’ll really enjoy this new journey mate!, enjoy and good luck!
Wow when I think I remember that I was using cassettes to record the cv to run sequencers you make me feel real old :)))))
Just discovered your channels and subscribed. 👍👍👍👍👍👍
can we get a pt 2 of this process as you do it?
Once you dive in to the MPC3000’s ‘timing correct’ settings you can find the right way to nudge your kicks and snares and get that “Dilla” timing.
This is why the dilla time book was full of shit and i told people to read it with a grain of salt … dilla quantized … i know this because i own a 60 with a 3000 brain and “dilla” time is easy to replicate
Most people who buy vintage gear have 0 idea how to use it or even tuff it out and learn
@@Darie2006 can you show an example of that? Show how is easy to replicate Dilla? Thanks
@@DMS8410 i mean look at the shear amount of producers and beatmakers today that use the “dilla” time today you would understand its not hard… you need to understand time correct… start there…. There is a lot of songs that are mistaken for dilla….
Sir this is an excellent video i must say
Good topic
Gracias
I don't know what happened in the last 10-15 years but the coffee machine industry has been cutting MAJOR corners. It's absolutely ASTOUNDING how terrible modern coffee machines are. The old Cuisinart ones from the earlier 2000s are built like tanks. One of the biggest regrets in my life was ditching my old one for something new, Thanks for the pro tip, I'll keep my eyes peeled in the thrilft shops ;)
mindblown... never new that about the MPC with it not being able to keep perfect time. Was that just the 60 and 3000 or did you ever test a 2000 or XL?
I don't think 2000's were out yet. I would guess they're the same.
Awesome talk. Thanks for uploading this
cool video! thanks, man
glad you got something from it...fun topic to explore
Great information 💎🫶
Easy mo Bee did great shit for 2pac. He was a good one.
Temptations 🔥🔥🔥
Good talk.
Respect to Marley Marl the originator and the funkiest.
At the end of the day technology itself can only do but so much. You still have to have a good ear and a good touch to do what those guys that he spoke about actually did. He was the other guy in the room. Im betting he's knws all of those guys little tricks and secrets. Tony would probably be a really dope producer himself if he wanted with all of that knowledge he accumulated working with the best in the game for all those years. I salute you sir!!
Great Video
Yes i have seen you in passing this great to see years later you speaking music
I'm still around!
Thanks for sharing some knowledge man. I do like the multing technique / mixing layered bands- it's handy. One contention of mine though is that some of the producers mentioned did in fact employ the 'low end theory' technique (split bass/highs into two bands) and layer the low end over once again. This comes up around 'low-pass sections' of a lot of these hiphop songs where the top is then filtered but the thickness of the low-end remains. This may be in conjunction with multing as well, but I think it's appropriate to say they did both. What do you think?
Thanks man, i was about to buy a Krups
Thanks for this, Tony! 🔥 video.
BTW re coffee machine. I got myself an ECM espresso machine and never looked back, there is nothing more frustrating than a bad coffee machine lol
That was great information!
New subscriber
Finally - this is what I’ve been saying 👊🏽
„Molding“…Dude that’s some pretty powerful info! Thanks for that! I think this technique would be the answer to a ton of people’s questions about „the 90s sound of Hip Hop“.
its "multing" but my pronounciation could be to blame...thanks.
@@TonyBlackNYC 🤣 thanks anyways
@@TonyBlackNYCthere was a lot of filtering being done on the Akai samplers, it was a very popular technique, you can hear the Akai filter sound on so many records. Of course Multing was part of hip hop production, probably more for bigger artists in bigger studios, it wasn't the only way to achieve that sound. Loved your video btw, subbed now.
Cool video
yes I laughed with the Dilla mythos back in the day ... and people who aren't famous but produced with these tools knew it was further hype but that's just what happens in the world of the story and the merchandise. Sure he had talent at the 'selection' and arrangement and was at the right time for his shine.
They had such a great taste and drive, and of course the sound of the AKAI MPC 2000 would add up
agreed, the bit crunch of the akai sampling was a flavor
The compression on the 2000 made everything beautifully crunchy, I wish I'd never sold mine
Great content! I'm carving for more 'know-how'...Trying to recreate this sound without knowing the process of enhancement and processing is really hard.I come from a small town in Poland...Tried to recreate the sound using chopped drumbreaks on a DAW at the beginning of 2000s...Never even came close...Young naive teenager i was thinking everything will sound FAT warm and dusty...😢
Great video! Sorry bout the lame coffee maker.
@13:00 "Multing" For Millenials, and Gen Z, you will understand this another way: Stems. What AI, and some software, and apps on your phone/tablet do, is what he's describing. That's the basic explanation. Your AI/Apps etc are calculating the precise frequency of each sound and then cutting all the others to make stems. In our time, with the Multing method, we could manipulate those frequencies a little here and there, bring back a little of another frequency to add a different flavor. It's like making a stew, adding a little more of different seasonings to balance out the taste.
Something interesting about the SP1200 is that the sequencer resolution is 24ppq so even in “hi-res” mode (quantize off) your beats are actually being quantized to 1/64th triplet notes.
that makes sense because the sp1200 does have a rigid feel to the beats, I always thought that. I got to witness Easy Mo B rock that machine a few times. It always felt like nothing was happening, until he said "I'm ready to track this now"...and he hit play, and BOOM
Shiid do you need more than 1/32nd triplet tho you can get super funky just on 1/16tg grids like it not hard to make it seem as if…. Its called 16 levels and alternating different sections of of a drumbreak…. I know im giving free game but swinging a beat is so easy man its crazy when i hear how people talk about dilla programming… he was and is a goat but alot of people easily bit his style it wasnt hard to replicate
He was kinda pissed by 98-2000 that alot of people caught on… thats why dilla had a period of no samples or breaks because people were either actively listening or people was eavesdropping when he made beats
One more note about samples and Ensoniq Mirage...I started off with the Mirage sampling basslines, kicks and snares 8 bit, and all of those sounds you could load into the EPS/16+/ASR. I still have all of them.
90 rap was a drum loop and a sample loop or chopped sampled. Props to Rza for introducing tge sped up vocal chop. That " For Heaven's Sake" was ahead of its time.
Thank you!
Some great insight here. Especially the recording/mix processes. Thanks for sharing
A good example of that jump in resolution technology (96 vs 480 per quarter note) can be seen between the Yamaha QY70 and the QY100 mobile sequencers.
I subbed just over the title becaue holy sh*t is today's urban music TERRIBLE!!! I live over a parking lot where young peoepl hang out playing their stereos..WOW..no wonder they are so angry. There is no melody, not even any decent rhymes..one note...drones..scream..its great music for going to war but not for making love or dancing.
You know I feel that the majority of rap artists currently never really had the kind of upbringing where they were being introduced to the music that when you see interviews of any hip hop artist from the 90's they always bring up and how important and influential to them it was to inform their tastes and understanding of music, and I feel like there's basically none of them really have even a basic experienced understanding of melody and to them it's solely about getting the bag.
did you do any work at Chung king varick street? was interning there around 2006 when ari Raskin was the in-house engineer and Zach Hancock was assisting for Tony Maserati there. Zach also worked for Alycia at her home studio
never went through chung king...I know Tony of course, good dude.
... Please make a video talking about your experience with DeVante Swing, his process & your process recording his compositions...
I ask as there is still really nothing out there that covers this in great detail.
As you will know yourself, DeVante is one of the greatest writers/musical geniuses of our generation/this era... (Ask anyone who has worked with him, or was producing at the time also.. They all mention his greatness)..
Please
🙏
Yesss!
505 was my first drum machine
Hey Tony, what are your thoughts on the resurgence of the cassette tape as a viable medium for music to mainstream audiences?
not a believer
as a person making beats since 84, the over analyzation is always funny cuz it was never that deep😂 we just wanted the sounds.. sometimes from back spinning the records for 5-6 minutes.. sometimes from speeding the record up to get it INTO the sampler.. but i digress
Exactly!! We were kids of the Baby Boomers who grew up in the Cold War on everything from James Browm to Crosby Stills and NAsh to LAwrence Welk..we marched in the band and got classical musical training then used the new tools available at the time to express ourselves i a unique way...all this analytical stuff is over the top...
you gt kids 30 years later (Kendrick Lamar) trying to imitate what they thought was going on at the time whiel doing it today....they completely miss th epoint...just like every dumb hood rapper wants to be the "new Tupac"..IMPOSSIBLE.
Music doesnt stay in one place it moves..the 90s were for the kid sof the 90s!! Just like Disco, Motown, Jazz, Blues belonged to our grandparent and parents..you CANNOT recreate it..and th NEW music comes from 'getting" what the older music was about....Metal came from Rock and Roll with came from Rhythm and Blues with came from the blues wchih came from bluegrass, etc
esoteric
you might be onto something.
Talent using tools in a creative ways!
I am curious if the "older" MPCs are solid state electronics or analog I know my Yamaha A3000 is SCSI but it appears pretty much wholly digital.. even in 2000 or so the SHARC DSP by analog device became more regular for audio fxs processing.. in fact my Behringer DDX3216 is more or lesss like a 386 or 486 computer with special SHARC DSP Chips. Curious what is actually under the hood on them . I so want to durn the mixer into an actual old style computer with CGA monitor etc.. as the cpu supports CGA output not just LCD. Curious if the MPC are just like 386 computers as even the yahama computers and a lot of keyboards around that time either run like commodore style motorola or 386/486 chips with audio processors for sampling etc.. that level is pretty cool to look into as with some firmware hacking you could probably run a basic dos or commodore like operating system on the older machines.
the speed i can do some of this in my sp 404 is crazy
There’s a cool little company called Inphonik that makes an emulation of the input stage of the S950 which sounds great if you’re looking to add some of that 12 bit punch and sweetness from the MPC to your samples ITB.
nice. one massive thing overlooked is that the vinyl was played typically on a technics 1200 through a numark mixer and then sampled from that..all of this added to the "sound"
The S950 plug is amazing. The Sp1200 one they did is pretty good as well
@TonyBlackNYC Yep. I think a part of "that 90's sound" that get overlooked as well was the memory saving technique of sampling records at sped up rates, then slowing the sample back down. We are spoiled with the many gb's of storage capacity newer devices have. You were forced to get creative and make wise decisions in sound selection when you were limited to 32, 16, or even 8 MEGAbyte's of storage capacity 😆
@@TonyBlackNYC I'm not sure if the same thing happened in 90s Hip Hop (probably did) but in a lot of UK rave / Jungle music around the same time things would often be sampled in at 45 and then slowed back down to save on disk space. Some times even sampling, recording to DAT at double time and then resampling and pitching down in the sampler. Added a lot of character to the sounds.
@FractureAstrophonica Been playing your tunes out for what, over 15 years now?! Much respect from the US.
Can we use some technic to get that feeling?
The coffee maker storie is one of the most enigmatic things I've ever heard. I can't tell if its a summary of the video or a genuine review of a coffee maker.
plenty more where that came from
were you guys protective over handing out the enhanced drum samples or was it a ‘cool, no big deal’ kind of situation
I wouldn't give someones samples to anyone...some did. sometimes the producers would sorta help out guys that were hanging around them, but not a lot.
Interesting topic . Ive made various music styles over 25 years and the drop of timing on my old machine would really bug me , especially on a good tracks. But some styles suit that and looking back i deleted almost all of my music based on its qauntize problems , and some of it was quite good apart from that . A shame
The difference is called THE VIBE OF THE SOUL!
MIC DROP
I have been losing my mind over this for years. I was a heavy mpc2000 user in the 90s and then a logic user forever (as well as a drummer) and I feel like logic drifts a bit and the mpc2000 used to drift a bit as well. this has led me down many rabbit holes about midi jitter and timing errors and ridiculous stuff like that. you said in the early part of the video that syncing it to tape using smpte made the mpc more rock solid. was that not the key to getting that swingy feel, but also having it be solid?
I don't think locking to tape made it more solid...I think it was the slight tempo fluctuation based on the internal clock
@@TonyBlackNYC gotcha. I'm glad this video is here - no one believes me when I say these daws and sequencers are drifty...but you can feel it. in dawland, plugin delay compensation can help but it's still enough of a problem that it makes me consider just using one of those boss 5 channel loop units so it preserves the real timing I want (which I would just play in from whatever).
Maybe hip hop will get good again in +/- 30 years when all the music goes into the public domain. Also, I thought your cuisinart coffee machine story was going to lead up into how it made a sound that was used as a sick beat. haha
I made my first beat in 1999, at age 14. In a sense, everything I had access to sounded kind of crappy, and since most genres did not exist, no one around me understood what it was that I was doing. That was the most important factor back then: if you were making beats, you had to have your own vision of what you were doing. No one else could conceive of it. I remember my friends saying things like, but it sounds like fake drums . . . . , and the only thing anyone could do was laugh and say 'you are not hiphop' or techno sucks. now a days there is no such thing as 'fake drums' and those limited genres that kept everyone in a box
now a days there is fake drums, they are electronic. maybe you don't understand as a drum is an acoustic instrument . a sample is an approximation of that acoustic sound..hence every electronic sample or modulated synth sound IS fake drums by default. The box is where that fake drum sound comes out of ... a band with live musicians playing non quantized / non assisted by computer effects / pitch correction.. is how timeless music is made. Your friends were not wrong but you simply accept that particular processed sound over a real person playing a drum kit.
@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 A producer taking a subtractive synthesizer to create drums isn't 'fake drums by default'. Maybe you don't understand sound design. Here's a tip coming from a studio engineer with years of industry experience. Drop the elitism. It isn't a good look and makes you look ignorant.
@@PushinButtons- If understanding what real vs fake drums are , renders me 'elite' (to you) ..then so be it Corky the Button Pushing robot ... and what does this equation render you.. I'll tell you - a contrarian moron. Only your shadow loves to argue with you and your baseless input. Cheerio, cornflake! Elite student of the drum , signing off.
@@PushinButtons- he is just dumb..ignore him. Some guys get a little bit of knowledge without a REAL connection to the "art" and act like @ssholes
PT is 960 PPQN. Awesome video!
thats substantial.