I little bit of history. Zodiac never really went out of business. They changed owners about four times since the late seventies when the original family called it quits. They went bankrupt once in the nineties but survived. Fossil bought them in the early 00s when the owner at the time reached out to them for a distribution deal. Other interesting history is that Zodiac partnered with Seiko in the early part of the twentieth century to get a part of the Japanese market. Vintage Zodiacs are highly valued to this day in Japan.
Honestly, can’t go wrong with either. I’m biased in that I prefer European designs & craftsmanship over Asian watches. Having said that; Seiko is a well respected brand that offers great value. That Zodiac has a ton of personality & style - would be my choice between these two.
Absoulelty love my Seiko SPB143...Also with all the options we have for a leather strap or Nato it completely changed in looks and feels....This watch is a beast!!!
Seiko is killing it. Their prices don’t bother me. I think they’re fairly priced. I would love if they added screws and a tool-less adjustable clasp to their bracelets. I’d be willing to pay the additional cost for these creature comforts. And up their QC to get the alignment correct. I could never get a microbrand using Seiko designs with better specs. I love both of these watches.
Tai Nguyen I really like that they’re using steel or aluminum inserts. Keeps them more toolish and I want to see scratched up over time. I think ceramic for the more expensive SLA’s would be fine. I agree on the QC for sure.
Nice video dude. I think you nailed it when you made the point about the Seiko being a modern reinterpretation. The SPB143 and SPB151 "Willard" both seem to be getting stick for not being enough like the watches used for their inspiration. I don't think Seiko ever set out to offer a 1:1 reproduction. I like them both and think they're both fair value for money.
@@VTheGuerrilla Sorry, I didn't make my point well. Comparing like for like you are %100 correct, not even close (movement, finishing, etc). But what I meant was, for a fifth of the price of a BB you can get a good looking retro diver with a ton of history.
@@VTheGuerrilla I guess it's subjective, I have been seriously considering the BB58 since it released but I've decided against it and went for the SPB143 instead, for me it's absolutely everything I've been looking for.
Zodiac seems like a summer watch. Buy now, wear for a few months, flip in October. Fun looking, but not a keeper. Seiko seems a bit more boring. But you could live with it long enough so that your kids will inherit it. Way more classy, in other words.
Seiko has a diver extension even though it doesn’t have on the fly micro adjust... Seiko’s biggest problem is one of their own making. They’ve identified themselves as the value alternative to Swiss for so long that it’s affected consumer’s perception of quality.
You hit the nail on the head with that one. The one thing preventing me from buying a $1,200 Seiko is the fact that they sell $200 watches that hold true to their value. I couldn't imagine a Seiko with as fine of a bracelet as you would get from Makers like Mido, Raymond Weil, or even Tissot. But then again I've never spent more than $300 on a Seiko so I would never know.
i think if they did the seiko with a slightly slimmer bezel - kind of closer to the original - it would def be a watch that i'd want to save up and get. for now my mini turtle is making me happy enough and able to say no to other much more expensive watches.
4 days with the Seiko. Gained 12 seconds. Perfect size and already on a Black/Grey striped Nato. Absolutely love it. The Rolex collection is now having a rest.
Really like the Seiko, but I wish they would fit higher grade movement...all the 4R, 6R are relatively comparable, despite their differences...they are just a step below even to the most basic ETA2842 in all regards, besides power reserve, down to the finishing.
The 6r movements are actually pretty well designed from a watchmaking perspective, more robust than comparable lower grade eta, however they need a significantly better adjustment mechanism. Finishing wise I don't think we'll ever see a huge improvement from seiko, they just don't have the manufacturing set up for quick machine finishing that swiss companies do. Will take an awful lot of investment and training for lines that mostly have closed case backs. Grand seiko are capable of this ofcourse, but I don't see them lending resources for lower end movements. Even the 8l movements in the SLA lines are unfinished.
@@AlexxxxxSaysHi probably every run of the mill Eta 2824 will exhibit better performance on the test bench, due to better manufacturing/tolerances...especially in the department of directional deviations. These 4R, 6R aren't as good in that regard, even after regulation. They will run decades without service on the other hand. I guess the 4S15 would be a more equal comparison to an 2824.
I actually really like the way you review… I have a Very small channel and I get so tired of ppl rambling specs for 20 minutes .. I like subjective reviews… and you mail that! those 2 watches were a fun pair up for discussion… I ran into this video since I was searching more info on the Super Sea Wolf. I have quite a few Seiko’s but I’ve been finding out that I really love the look of 60s and 70s Divers.. naturally the Super Sea wolf was one that came up.. I wanted to add to my one to my Collection… Which I did end up buying. I’m looking forward to receiving it.. Got the Liberty London Version with black purple accents…. I’m not sure 🤔 that was the “smart” purchase since it’s gonna probably be tougher to resell then the other colors … but I was just attracted to the black purple the most..: the only unfortunate thing is the Lume on that model…. It’s purple.. so not very bright.. neat none the less.. Just subbed ..great stuff 😊👍
you still get a LOT more bang per buck going for homage over a high dollar Seiko. every time i hold one i just don't see the money. its way different for grand Seiko, Rolex and other top brands though
Love the channel and all the great info. Thank you. Quick opinion question. Sinn 104 or the seiko sbdc101? Is the Sinn with the metal bracelet worth the extra money? Thank you very much for any insight.
Having owned both I would say no, Christopher ward offers the best value for money but they’re just not as cool as seiko or Sinn (imo). The seiko was awesome and the only issue I had was accuracy which is hit and miss. I’m thinking of buying it again as it really is a cool and versatile watch that suits so many straps. I took it on a beach holiday with 2 grey & orange natos, a leather strap and the bracelet. Changing the strap in the evening felt like having a new watch. The Sinn was fine but for me was underwhelming, a basic polished case and a pretty generic overall design. Nothing wrong with the Sinn but the seiko had that X factor. For a similar/cheaper price I’d really recommend the cosc Christopher Ward Dartmouth too.
I think you are leaning way too much on brand loyalty when you say it's ok for seiko to charge this much for a watch that doesn't have a ceramic bezel. Our money would be better spent elsewhere in terms of quality and longevity, most people rarely go over $500 for a watch. When they do, they likely want the full shebang: reliability & daily consistency in movements, ceramic bezel, AR coated sapphire, legibility and a hand down ageless attraction, all stainless steel as an alloy minimum.
The experience at 3 ADs for the Tudor BB58Blue left me salty. Concidering this SRP now, your last video I saw the macro of the SRP 6 o'clock marker. Was that dust around it?
Zodiac is more 'fun' but also more likely to be flipped. Too cartoonish for me. The Seiko (62mas) design is a classic and a keeper. Seiko for me although I like some of Zodiac's other designs.
Style wise, the Seiko is kinda boring, but traditional. The Zodiac has really nice colors. For just swimming, I would prefer the zodiac. Can you really bang up the Zodiac doing chores? If I did scratch it up, I would be very sad.
Is Seiko paying you or something.. yes the watch is beautiful, but its still an overpriced watch.. and if Seiko is not paying you then you really should rethink how hard you try to sell the price without reaping some kind of kick back.
No, they don't pay me. And if I didn't think it was worth the money, I wouldn't have bought it. I would suggest you do the same and not worry about watches you're not interested in buying.
WTF? The Seiko just screams: hey, look at me I look almost like a Rolex Submariner! Just like 1000 other wanna be watches. The Zodiac on the other hand at least walks to the beat of a different drummer and has a style of it's own and some panache. I've held both in my hands and Seiko has zero advantage in the fit and finish department. Zodiac is not going for the replicate a Rolex look and is finished in it's own stylish way.
Are you kidding? You may not have *tried* to do a comparison, but boy, did it turn out that way. Every part of this vid, the Seiko makes mincemeat out of the Zodiac. Dive watch heritage, dial, bracelet, even movement-- the 6R35 vs a clone 2824? -- and those low-light shots? No contest
![Average Bros [Mark Alamares]](http://yt3.ggpht.com/AMTyfBoS_HGUS5NeMIdml3FQHYPLCvE10yYPfvjGSZRfNEkgmgSJlVqPFEQ4yky_fTnRrnqQ=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
I little bit of history. Zodiac never really went out of business. They changed owners about four times since the late seventies when the original family called it quits. They went bankrupt once in the nineties but survived. Fossil bought them in the early 00s when the owner at the time reached out to them for a distribution deal. Other interesting history is that Zodiac partnered with Seiko in the early part of the twentieth century to get a part of the Japanese market. Vintage Zodiacs are highly valued to this day in Japan.
Honestly, can’t go wrong with either. I’m biased in that I prefer European designs & craftsmanship over Asian watches. Having said that; Seiko is a well respected brand that offers great value.
That Zodiac has a ton of personality & style - would be my choice between these two.
Absoulelty love my Seiko SPB143...Also with all the options we have for a leather strap or Nato it completely changed in looks and feels....This watch is a beast!!!
That seiko is so good. Can’t wait to get one.
Seiko is killing it. Their prices don’t bother me. I think they’re fairly priced. I would love if they added screws and a tool-less adjustable clasp to their bracelets. I’d be willing to pay the additional cost for these creature comforts. And up their QC to get the alignment correct. I could never get a microbrand using Seiko designs with better specs.
I love both of these watches.
Totally agree. Seiko needs to do a better QC job on all of their watches over 1K. Also, I would pay other $100 for ceramic and a better extension.
Tai Nguyen I really like that they’re using steel or aluminum inserts. Keeps them more toolish and I want to see scratched up over time. I think ceramic for the more expensive SLA’s would be fine.
I agree on the QC for sure.
Nice video dude. I think you nailed it when you made the point about the Seiko being a modern reinterpretation. The SPB143 and SPB151 "Willard" both seem to be getting stick for not being enough like the watches used for their inspiration. I don't think Seiko ever set out to offer a 1:1 reproduction. I like them both and think they're both fair value for money.
Seiko👍 vs. Zodiac👎
for 1200$ you can't get a better watch, the SPB143J1 is the new Submariner-Killer❗
100%, at the very least it's a Black Bay killer.
@@LMac-ot5xb Sub or BB killer? Not even close. To even mention that shows glaring ignorance.
@@VTheGuerrilla Sorry, I didn't make my point well. Comparing like for like you are %100 correct, not even close (movement, finishing, etc). But what I meant was, for a fifth of the price of a BB you can get a good looking retro diver with a ton of history.
@@VTheGuerrilla I guess it's subjective, I have been seriously considering the BB58 since it released but I've decided against it and went for the SPB143 instead, for me it's absolutely everything I've been looking for.
Zodiac seems like a summer watch. Buy now, wear for a few months, flip in October. Fun looking, but not a keeper.
Seiko seems a bit more boring. But you could live with it long enough so that your kids will inherit it. Way more classy, in other words.
My Seiko arrives in the post today ❤️🥇💪🏼
Seiko has a diver extension even though it doesn’t have on the fly micro adjust... Seiko’s biggest problem is one of their own making. They’ve identified themselves as the value alternative to Swiss for so long that it’s affected consumer’s perception of quality.
But their killing it worldwide with there sales. I think there doing great
You hit the nail on the head with that one. The one thing preventing me from buying a $1,200 Seiko is the fact that they sell $200 watches that hold true to their value. I couldn't imagine a Seiko with as fine of a bracelet as you would get from Makers like Mido, Raymond Weil, or even Tissot. But then again I've never spent more than $300 on a Seiko so I would never know.
i think if they did the seiko with a slightly slimmer bezel - kind of closer to the original - it would def be a watch that i'd want to save up and get. for now my mini turtle is making me happy enough and able to say no to other much more expensive watches.
Love my Mini Turtle as well, total sleeper, should be as popular as the SKX considering all the great points
Zodiac all the way.
Hahahahaha
Outstanding review on both watches but for me definitely the new Seiko Prospex watch .
4 days with the Seiko. Gained 12 seconds.
Perfect size and already on a Black/Grey striped Nato.
Absolutely love it.
The Rolex collection is now having a rest.
Same with my Zodiac Sea Wolf! Can't go wrong with either! 😎
Damn, I’m trying real hard to overlook that seiko.
Really like the Seiko, but I wish they would fit higher grade movement...all the 4R, 6R are relatively comparable, despite their differences...they are just a step below even to the most basic ETA2842 in all regards, besides power reserve, down to the finishing.
The 6r movements are actually pretty well designed from a watchmaking perspective, more robust than comparable lower grade eta, however they need a significantly better adjustment mechanism.
Finishing wise I don't think we'll ever see a huge improvement from seiko, they just don't have the manufacturing set up for quick machine finishing that swiss companies do. Will take an awful lot of investment and training for lines that mostly have closed case backs.
Grand seiko are capable of this ofcourse, but I don't see them lending resources for lower end movements. Even the 8l movements in the SLA lines are unfinished.
@@AlexxxxxSaysHi probably every run of the mill Eta 2824 will exhibit better performance on the test bench, due to better manufacturing/tolerances...especially in the department of directional deviations. These 4R, 6R aren't as good in that regard, even after regulation. They will run decades without service on the other hand. I guess the 4S15 would be a more equal comparison to an 2824.
I ordered the Seiko. Cannot wait
I actually really like the way you review… I have a Very small channel and I get so tired of ppl rambling specs for 20 minutes .. I like subjective reviews… and you mail that!
those 2 watches were a fun pair up for discussion… I ran into this video since I was searching more info on the Super Sea Wolf.
I have quite a few Seiko’s but I’ve been finding out that I really love the look of 60s and 70s Divers.. naturally the Super Sea wolf was one that came up.. I wanted to add to my one to my Collection… Which I did end up buying. I’m looking forward to receiving it..
Got the Liberty London Version with black purple accents…. I’m not sure 🤔 that was the “smart” purchase since it’s gonna probably be tougher to resell then the other colors … but I was just attracted to the black purple the most..: the only unfortunate thing is the Lume on that model…. It’s purple.. so not very bright.. neat none the less..
Just subbed ..great stuff 😊👍
If that Seiko was $300 less I might be considering... But I cannot justify the full, new price of the Seiko
Not for that shitty movement
I would take Zodiac over a Seiko any day of the week
I'm glad i stumbled on this video
I just picked the 143 up for £880 with discount.
Still a bit over priced for a SEIKO but better than paying £1100
I wish the Seiko was a little bit bigger. I think it would look tiny on my almost 8 inch wrist😔
Dude, there are p l e n t y of huge Seiko divers for wrists your size. People with smaller wrists need options too.
Get a Marinemaster
you still get a LOT more bang per buck going for homage over a high dollar Seiko. every time i hold one i just don't see the money. its way different for grand Seiko, Rolex and other top brands though
Seiko is going bananas with their market pricing
Zodiac is a brand with history, but Seiko is more of a dive watch with an iconic design. So no suprise who is the winner there.
Both handsome but for me personally I like my tool/dive watches at least 42mm
Right now I'm on my way to to get one Seiko Seiko
Love the channel and all the great info. Thank you. Quick opinion question. Sinn 104 or the seiko sbdc101? Is the Sinn with the metal bracelet worth the extra money?
Thank you very much for any insight.
Having owned both I would say no, Christopher ward offers the best value for money but they’re just not as cool as seiko or Sinn (imo).
The seiko was awesome and the only issue I had was accuracy which is hit and miss. I’m thinking of buying it again as it really is a cool and versatile watch that suits so many straps. I took it on a beach holiday with 2 grey & orange natos, a leather strap and the bracelet. Changing the strap in the evening felt like having a new watch.
The Sinn was fine but for me was underwhelming, a basic polished case and a pretty generic overall design. Nothing wrong with the Sinn but the seiko had that X factor.
For a similar/cheaper price I’d really recommend the cosc Christopher Ward Dartmouth too.
I agree with everything you said and I think the seiko is a better looking watch in house movement just as good as a Swiss, great vid I enjoyed it.
I think you are leaning way too much on brand loyalty when you say it's ok for seiko to charge this much for a watch that doesn't have a ceramic bezel. Our money would be better spent elsewhere in terms of quality and longevity, most people rarely go over $500 for a watch. When they do, they likely want the full shebang: reliability & daily consistency in movements, ceramic bezel, AR coated sapphire, legibility and a hand down ageless attraction, all stainless steel as an alloy minimum.
Zodiac has terrible qc. I avoid all their watches like the plague if they have an stp movement. Seiko isn't much better either though.
Matt H, their non stp watches don’t have great qc either. They couldn’t even get the hands attached properly on my GMT.
Super Excellent Video, thanks
My turtle has a big scratch on the dial but tue ad just exchanged the watch for me no questions asked.
Digging the Seiko a. I like the lighting effects portion of the video!
The experience at 3 ADs for the Tudor BB58Blue left me salty. Concidering this SRP now, your last video I saw the macro of the SRP 6 o'clock marker. Was that dust around it?
SRP or SPB? I don't see any dust at the 6 o'clock of either, sorry.
What is the thickness of the SPB143 without the domed crystal?
4:12 Good lord, 13,5 inch thickness! :)
SEIKO SEIKO SEIKO
Seiko all the way ! Great comparison.
Zodiac is more 'fun' but also more likely to be flipped. Too cartoonish for me. The Seiko (62mas) design is a classic and a keeper. Seiko for me although I like some of Zodiac's other designs.
Idk if it’s just cause it’s next to a Seiko but that Zodiac lume is trash
Style wise, the Seiko is kinda boring, but traditional. The Zodiac has really nice colors. For just swimming, I would prefer the zodiac. Can you really bang up the Zodiac doing chores? If I did scratch it up, I would be very sad.
I like the watch but it doesn't seem like good value
Value is subjective
I like the Seiko more
Is Seiko paying you or something.. yes the watch is beautiful, but its still an overpriced watch.. and if Seiko is not paying you then you really should rethink how hard you try to sell the price without reaping some kind of kick back.
No, they don't pay me. And if I didn't think it was worth the money, I wouldn't have bought it. I would suggest you do the same and not worry about watches you're not interested in buying.
WTF? The Seiko just screams: hey, look at me I look almost like a Rolex Submariner! Just like 1000 other wanna be watches. The Zodiac on the other hand at least walks to the beat of a different drummer and has a style of it's own and some panache. I've held both in my hands and Seiko has zero advantage in the fit and finish department. Zodiac is not going for the replicate a Rolex look and is finished in it's own stylish way.
Seiko knocks it’s out of the park!
Are you kidding? You may not have *tried* to do a comparison, but boy, did it turn out that way. Every part of this vid, the Seiko makes mincemeat out of the Zodiac. Dive watch heritage, dial, bracelet, even movement-- the 6R35 vs a clone 2824? -- and those low-light shots? No contest
All I really heard was YA KNOW 9 MEEELION times
This comparison doesn’t make sense.
"Uh, ya' know? Uh, ya' know? Uh… Ya' know?… Ya' know? Uh… Um. Ya' know? Um. Uh… Ya' know? Ya' know?… Uh. Um. Uh. Ya' know?… Ya' know? Uh. Uh. Um. Ya' know?"
Dude.
Oh pipe down.
@@jc2604 Ha!
Is that all you've got?
@@marcelodietrich8674 Oh pipe down ❤️
Seiko does better than a tarted up fossil.
That zodiac is ugly af lol and the 143 looks fire
Both are overpriced. No question about it.
@Jim Cannataro gotta pay to play in 2020 brah