Update: My 3-week deadline passed without a new video, but I didn't quit! The next video needs more time to cook. It's not a 30-minute review anymore. I've listened to the feedback, and I'm making another LONG, detailed video. In fact, it's an "In-Depth" topic, inspired by one of the comments on this video: Why I Think The Incredibles Is "Slow In Places." The script is big. It's going to take quite a few more weeks to make the video. I'm rusty after 4 years. I'll keep working on it, slow and steady. Weekly updates can be found on my Community Posts page. Thank you all for giving this Incredibles 2 video a chance! I'm reading the feedback, including the negative comments, which I'll consider. Take care, -AEmovieguy
Glad you’re giving your content more time to bake than Disney execs are willing to give to their filmmakers. On a serious note, truly wish this film had that extra time to bake. It needed a few passes with a fine tooth comb, and an analysis like this one makes it clear just how many good ideas they could’ve shaped into a worthy follow up to the original.
Please edit the Incredibles 2 video to delete the transphobic Brick joke. Just please, and never make insensitive jokes (e.g. the transphobic one) ever again.
@@KnightEclipser "Please take down and reupload a 3+ hr long video thats already been up for a month because I am offended. I dont care that you wont make any money on the project anymore, I just want the vid that I already watched to have one less thing in it."
@@KnightEclipser You must’ve never made a mistake in your life I’m sure you’re so perfect. Only someone who feels privileged and entitled would have the nerve to tell people what they are doing wrong when they themselves are full of mistakes. Stop telling people what to do with their own content. At the heart of your narrative is complete and total narcissism. Not everything reflects your feelings
Not giving Helen any internal conflict or further complexity is not empowering her but rather making her into a character that most women will find it hard to relate to. It’s like the writers got so lost in trying to make her a “girlboss” that they forgot to make her a person.
This. I agree with this so much. Most girlbosses characters who are strong for the sake of it, fall really hollow, and are often just the subject of "admiration" rather than a real connection with said character. It's always "(girlboss character) is so strong, hot etc.", but never "(girlboss character) is just like me."
@@voiceunderthecovers I'm a woman why do you guys keep assuming my gender 😭 do I pass as a man so much? Wtf - I meant the girlbosses that are written now. I think those women characters are relatable because they have flaws, and internal conflicts that can resonate with people. Like Mulan's struggle with identity and expectation of her. I meant that I am very disappointed with the girlboss characters that people write about now, cuz they're just as flat as the damsel in distress characters that people tend to criticize. Not because they are strong, but because their only purpose is to be strong. Like how Mulan went from relatable, to "you must have special powers and shit to be special, and if you don't have em just go suck it up" in the Live Action remake. Also when did I say, "women should relate to this", I only said what I feel and observed as a woman in social media and stuff.
That one line: “I’m not- I Can’t LOSE YOU again… I’m not… Strong enough.” That gets me, that gives me goosebumps, that tears me up a little. Can you imagine the utter anguish that swallowed him when he thought his family died on their way to save him? The thoughts running through his head as he relived every moment of his selfishness, his ambition, his pride, killed the people he loves most? People don’t just go through something like that only to go back to shallow egotistical ways three months later, he ripped himself apart inside out mentally and emotionally for hours, hanging in place with nothing to think about but the fact that he ruined everything, killed his wife, and his children for som paltry fun. That makes me kinda despise this movie tbh.
Perfectly understandable. The Incredibles was pretty much a masterpiece, where The Incredibles 2 should have been direct to DVD/streaming, so we could decide if it was official or not
@saltystick_99 perfectly understandable given the circumstances. I'd have been ready to sink the entire island, and I'm pretty sure that was on his bucket list somewhere in that moment
Bob's arc was the only one that was almost doomed from the start. Almost. It would take a lot of finesse to make Bob come out as struggling with the family home life while not breaking his character by making him come off as a lame moron. Bob's character in the first movie was depicted as brave, possibly a little reckless and dedicated and caring to his family. His main struggle was with finding a sense of purpose, which he resolved by the end of the movie by directing it more towards his family emotionally. To stay consistent, they would have needed to show his dedication and effort while having him still fail until he figures things out. In a way, he does do this in the movie. Problem is all the freaking out and whining. He can have bags under his eyes from caring for the baby, while not letting his exhaustion show. He can help Dash with a math test only for Dash to fail because he got the right answer, the wrong way. But all the time he needs to stay in control of himself, if not the situation.
@tobiasburrell6055 I think upping the saturation and exaggerating the 60s aesthetic definitely dates it as a product of the 10's-20's design trend tho. The original goes for realism to portray what it would ACTUALLY look like for a family living in that time, and the new one is a corporatized 60' "aesthetic". In reality, (lower) middle class American life looked pretty much the same back then as it does now, which Is why the original movie still feels relatable. It comes through clearly that real humans with lives created the movie. I think the aesthetification of Incredibles 2 is a byproduct of corporate detachment from human experiences, and it has created a look in children's movies that has been prevalent mostly in the past decade. 2 doesn't actually FEEL 60's, it feels modern. The original IS 60's, but is still relatable.
Personally, I kind of wish they played up the campiness of the 60s in more of the newer characters. The Deavors both seem to fit weirdly subtle, conservative 60s styles, but yeah the new super crew looks a little modernised, why not give them all the wild colours and prints of 60s psychedelia, punks, the very rights activists for the communities they are supposed to represent? Idk, at least give one of them that silly 60s beehive style 😂 And Tony. He looks like a Tumblr sexyman. In the first movie, he was perfectly established as a mix between Steve Jobs in the 60s, and an accurately dweeby teen. There was actually an endearing silliness to how much Violet crushed on him, he isn't the most handsome boy in the world, yet he's special to her, just like how it feels to crush on a guy back at school. Having him be a supermodel kind of removes the grounded normality to Violet's crush. Bring back dorky Tony!!
Maybe next genners are getting weird from further gene mutation to keep up with their powers- is this just MHA/X-Men all over again? We see that powers are 100% randomized and the superhero gene only gives you powers, unlike in mha/x-men where powers can be passed down with changes. Too bad we only have 2 movies and not 2 seasons to explore their world and society but I doubt anything could've been done with the premise.
@@tobiasburrell6055 That's because two of it's main influences are from the 60's, Fantastic Four and X-Men, not to mention the movies are set during the 60's with more advanced technology.
Bob did work for an insurance company in the first movie. His job was literally to deny claims illegally and scam people outta using the insurance. The old lady from the start literally had full coverage and insuracare was refusing to pay out unless they were sued, which they knew she couldn't due to being on a fixed income, more than willing to let a nice old lady to go homeless to increase their bottom line. Bob literally had to tell her a work around to get what she paid for! I doubt Disney would have let Incredibles 2 expose the fact that ya gotta sue insurance companies 9/10 if ya wanna get what ya paid for. It's one if Disney's more profitable "investments" after all!
Can we please talk about the whacky ass superhero designs? They’re incredibly distracting and DONT belong. In the first movie when Mr incridble is going through the supers eliminated by syndrome NONE of them look wacky or incredibly disproportionate. Not to mention, with an appearance like that, HOW DO YOU HAVE A SECRET IDENTITY???? If you look at the behind the scenes of the first movie you can clearly see a certain art direction or feel the movie was aiming for. It’s gone in this one.
That's exactly what I thought when I watched it. Not only the new designs are really ugly (at least for me), but how someone with that unique look can try to have a secret identity? It's ridiculous.
The goggles should have been part of Helen's new suit so that it wasn't obvious to Bob (or shouldn't have been obvious) that she was being mind controlled. They could justify it "It's to look cool. You got the motorcycle. Now you get goggles to go with it. Marketing." And, then nothing happens with them for a while to lower our guard about them. Then Elastagirl finds out that Evil Endeavor is a bad guy and she turns them on.
That's what throws me off about the goggles too, like you can clearly tell they aren't part of the super hero's outfits. Especiallly evident given that the campaign has been showing new and old footage of the supers, so the fact that the goggles are glowing blue orbs and the hero's are speaking in a weird halting/robotic ways, you'd expect someone if not many someones in the crowd putting 2+2 together and realising that there's something not quite right with the super's basically trying to become legal again then being all "well screw you" statements out of nowhere. Unless the glowing blue goggles aren't able to be seen/noticable by people in-universe, but then that makes no sense as to how Dash and Violet were able to figure out, rather quickly I might add, that the side-kick supers were brainwashed. Screenslaver's mode of mindcontrol really doesn't make sense.
@@BrightWulph I agree, Screenslaver's scheme and methods truly make no sense outside of "a sixty year old man had something he wanted to say about the 21st century technologies, so it makes the most sense to do that in the movie that is canonically set in the 60's"
They should have had a scene where Helen returns from a rather rough fight, and she calls Bob to check in. Bob tells her about all the little status updates and while she is proud of her children, she is visibly sad because she is missing out on her family. Something like this to signal conflict, though in all honestly I would really restructure the plot of this movie.
Ikr, I think that both parents should be finding some amount of joy and sadness in their new lives, struggling with the fact that being a superhero and being a parent are both full time jobs which they have to choose between. The overall message should have been something to the effect of 'live your life in a way that makes you fulfilled. dont let anyone choose for you' which ironically would have been *much* more feminist than whatever the movie actually says
Incredibles 2 is the kind of plot you would expect from a sitcom where they need to keep ending back where they begin. Not a movie with a journey or purpose.
Episodic plots is what you're thinking of, I believe. No matter what happens in the episode, the characters are back to normal by the next, only showing hints of character growth occasionally if the writers decide it
Something I’ve never seen anyone really talk about is the Parr’s housing situation at the beginning of the movie. Their old house exploded at the end of the first movie. That was canonically 3 months ago. Where have they been living since then? It doesn’t seem like they’ve been living in the motel for that whole time, but even if so why are Bob & Helen only NOW having the “maybe one of us should get another job” conversation? Did the movie just forget that the Underminer didn’t show up the day after Syndrome did?
Something else I noticed, Bob was clearly being paid by Mirage and Syndrome after the first Omni-droid fight, we saw him buy a car for himself and Helen during the montage, where did that money go? Did he use it all in that montage? Did Dicker take possession of it since it's technically blood money? We never get an explanation of where it went. In a stronger sequel, the house they move into wasn't owned by the Deavors, but Bob bought it in-between movies with state of the art technology. That makes sense because if they're going to be a crime fighting family, why wouldn't they have a house that's relatively close to the city and has a secret entrance/exit via waterfall they can access with the Incredibile (Bob's futuristic car we saw in the opening of the first film). Speaking of the Incredibile, it doesn't make any sense why it'd be in auction anyway, unless the government purposefully gave a car with classified government technology to the general public that can change its forms from a normal car to a speedboat along with having active missiles still installed?!?!?! Wouldn't people being in possession of something like that be dangerous? Clearly, judging from what Dash almost does with the car after he and Bob see it in auction on TV.
I feel like it would be interesting if they had bobs sudden regression be caused by overstimulation, something a lot of single moms talk about being a huge struggle. They could go into the idea that bob has no support system, and that hellen faced similar issues when the kids were younger but had people to help her through it. He could then struggle with not wanting to burden his wife and feeling like hes not strong enough to protect his family in a whole new way. You could also pull gender biases into it with bob not knowing helen struggled. Maybe she hid it from him, went to friends so as not to trust him. Then maybe one of the kids call helen, or frozone or his wife call her, and she comes home and bob is floored because its like she fixes everything. And they get to communicate that no its not just him failing, she knows what to do because she struggled the same way.
It would’ve been fine if they’d just made Helen struggle like at all. It’s like they just dropped her character entirely in favor of girl boss woman. All it would’ve taken is her being unsure regularly and thinking about the family, and bob being the one to push her because they’re equals like they were in the first movie. That would’ve been a good conflict and a good role reversal, she was the one who thought heroing was stupid when they have a family after all
@@oldylad Well it's not that she thought it was stupid so much as, it was already illegal and punishable for years, so it was long since pretty much impossible to do, and Bob kept getting them and their family in trouble and forcing them to move every time he did it. And since villains other than Syndrome seemed to fade from the world it's not like there was any real need. Even Frozone was getting sick of it by the time the movie started. Bob had to talk him into it.
I think the biggest thing one could do to improve Incredibles II is simply to swap how Bob and Helen feel about their roles. Bob gladly takes on raising the kids in order to make up for his disillusionment with urban life from the first film; Helen is conflicted about helping improve public/Super relations because it’s taking away from her family time. Doesn’t fix every problem (we’d need a better villain and Bob doesn’t need to be so thoroughly nerfed to make the film work), but it starts with the biggest problem I2 has (characterization).
@@PropheticShadeZneglected? It’s your typical 60s family dynamic. The dad works constantly and the mom works domestically constantly. They’re both pulling their own weight, only way you could say bob was neglecting things would be his vigilante stuff, but are parents meant to not do anything without their kids in their free time? I think because it’s a movie we just don’t see stuff like that, the movie gives no indication that Bob is a bad father or person
@PropheticShadeZ That's fine to have him struggle, but make the outlook different. Have him WANT to do it at the beginning instead of being jealous, and then fail a few times and figure out how hard it is when he hasn't done this before. And then make Helen STAY a bit more reluctant to leave her family. That way, they both are struggling.
Helen got the modern Hollywood treatment. They're afraid of individual character flaws being taken as a dig at all women in a way that they simply aren't for male characters.
I don’t think that’s the point. I think they just didn’t want to undermine Helen when Bob was so well hyped up in the first movie up until the second half. There is no “modern Hollywood treatment”.
@@voiceunderthecovers But that doesn't make much sense , in the first movie bob is hyped for a moment thats all , his first appearence is him saving a kitty and detaining simple robbers just to be passed to a scene of him fuck1m up because of buddy and then ending up fat and chasing adrenaline illegally when he is called to fight the omnidroid he almost dies and he is only really hyped up on a small collage with Helen also being happy because she things her husband had a promotion , after that he gets defeated by the omnidroid again and gets tortured physically and psychologically . And yeah wherever you like it or not the girlboss treatment IS a thing , every era has many cliches and the girlboss is just one of them , and just like any cliches , its bound to get old and directors using it without developing it .
The second I heard her name was Evelyn Dever, I chuckled to myself and said "Heh, evil endeavor". The fact that her name also sounds like "a villain" eluded me. This movie was such a disappointment. The original Incredibles is my favorite Pixar movie, and this... Gosh, this movie makes me sad for what could and should have been.
Dumb moment on my part, the fact that Evelyn Dever's name is meant to be a Phoenix Wright level bad pun on "evil endeavor" completely escaped me... and the reason it did was because when I first watched the movie, the literal first second the camera focused on her barging in through the door, late for the meeting, my EXACT thought was: "She's the twist villain." So the entire movie, I was just waiting with increasing impatience for the "twist" to finally be revealed. I felt a little insulted that the film thought it could fool me the way it tried.
I never realized how Helen was SCREAMING out their actual names in public during the Underminer fight omg. Anybody could’ve heard that, and many probably did, and put two and two together. That could’ve been a good time to see what their actual hero names would’ve been too! Maybe Helen starts saying “Vi-“ and then remembers she has to use their hero names to protect them.
@@BrightWulph It’s unclear if they have, but still, shouting out their real names when the only main difference between their usual look is a mask would make it pretty easy to identify who they are
@@BrightWulph I don't think so. If you had to come up with superhero names for them, what would they be? I was thinking either Trailblazer or Outpace for Dash, and either Unseen or Elusive for Violet.
Didn't she do that in the first film as well? It's been a while, but I remember the Omnidroid smashing through Violet's forcefield and was about to crush them and Helen was panicking and screaming their names before Bob jumped in to save them. In her defense, I imagine it's instinct to panic when you're a parent and it looks like your kids are about to die.
@@utopian4769 Personally, for Dash, I'd go with "Sir Speedo" since that's similar the nickname Frozone gave him in the first film, follows the same naming conventions has his dad's name "Mr. Incredible" (Polite moniker + Cool sounding word), and it sounds like something Dash would come up with himself. For Violet, her name is derived from "ultraviolet", so her name could be "Ultra Girl", which would also sound similar to her mom's name "ElastiGirl" (Word relating to powers + Girl).
Man I hadnt even realised in the aeroplane scene Bob was sobbing in the background, because Ive always watched it in a sort of open air screening at noisy places. That's really heartbreaking... the second movie really lacked that depth
literally said this when i walked out of theaters. "They just undid all of incredibles 1 character development and family understanding." They were bumping heads in the beginning and got a sense of understanding and bonding of being superheros and they undid all that in 2.
Helen's literally first line in the movie: "Wait, should we be doing this? It [hero work] is still illegal!" She said, after the ending of the first movie showed that she had put her mask on ever before her husband. _And it only got worse from there._
Even after many rewatches of this movie, I still have absolutely no idea how that little girl got that sign. Why did they make a little girl with the sign?! It makes literally no sense! Did Evelyn brainwash someone, have them walk up to this little girl and get her to hold this sign? Where are this girl's parents??
I mean, I just assumed that the parents gave her a sign to hold. You know, the same way we have children holding signs endorsing outright bigotry(in modern times usually against LGBT+ people, most frequently seen with extreme religious influences) but have zero idea why they are there(if they can even read yet) when asked. People love forcing children to advocate for an extreme position before they can even comprehend the position for some reason.
If you look at the crowd at 47:12, there's a lady standing next to the little girl, smiling at Helen with everyone else. Right before the girl turns her sign around, she glanced at the lady shyly, the way little kids do when looking for a parent for reassurance before interacting with a stranger. And the lady smiles encouragingly and nods. The lady doesn't even look slightly vindictive or anything, though. More like she's encouraging the girl to do something that will have a nice outcome, her expression reads like, "Go on, don't be shy, you can be nice to the Super lady." She doesn't look at all like she deliberately gave the girl an unsettling sign. So even that theory that some parent gave it to her doesn't seem to make much sense. I guess she could have misled the kid about it but it’s still confusing when the rest of the movie is extremely unsubtle.
honestly it's more believable to me that they just forgot to change the sign's text before the movie came out and just never updated it. cause it literally makes NO sense lmao!
@@josh44026 one was because someone wanted to tell a good story. The other one was because many saw the numbers flying around their heads with how much money they could make if they slapped Incredibles infront of it. Nostalgia is one of the biggest money makers in film nowadays. Unfortunately.
What does this even mean? Is this the whole 'duurrr disney agenda' thing? Because Pixar made this movie AND other 'woke' movies like Lightyear and Toy Story 4. That's of course ignoring the fact that worldwide Disney censors, cuts out and silences LGBT voices for money. But sure, buddy, disney totally wanted an agenda for this movie. Couldn't just be Brad Bird's own views on society or anything.
Ohhhhh that bit about Helen's conflict possibly being from the fear of missing out on her kids' lives if she takes the risk is SO good. Like, it could have reached the Pixar cry level if there was a moment where she was losing in the climax and imagined what would happen to her family without her, and she either finds her resolve to keep fighting and win, for her family; or she asks them for help and find strength together (which fits the theme of the movies a bit more, though it might still sound too similar to the first one)
@@milkshake285 Bird said he was open to an idea of a sequel to The Incredibles, but only if it could be better than the original. He stated, "I have pieces that I think are good, but I don't have them all together. That explains everything.
its different tones for a different time. that was a good versus evil story and now it's not. plus like they were trying to go for the more recent dark age of comics plus it obviously had elements of Watchmen's dark reality of her work
Incredibles 2 starts off like right where Incredibles one ended, but is clearly not the same world. Most of the characters clearly have not gone through the first movie. It's just kinda sad.
It would have been so much more interesting to have the movie deal with the fact that she hasn’t actually had a public facing job in years and that things have changed. They also could have looked at the difference between a vigilante vs a hero. To be a hero you have to work with the law and it’s implied in the first movie that she had a job that was with the government.
I was disappointed in this movie for the same reasons. Finding out that there wasn't a clear idea behind the scenes makes a lot of sense and is indicative of Disney demanding sequels for that sweet franchise money. It was the same with Frozen 2 and so many others. It's really sad that Disney seems happy with mediocrity these days as long as they make a profit. It's been a pretty tragic downfall to witness. Great review. Well worth the effort it took to get it out.
Evelyn’s motivation is so baseless honestly. She blames heroes for not saving her parents… ignoring the fact that supers were illegal BEFORE her parents died. Her dad was just an idiot who for some reason assumed someone would answer the phone, knowing they wouldn’t.
She resents her parents for not saving themselves within their own capacity to do so. She blames her dad for fantasizing being a "damsel-in-distress" so strongly that she had to grow up an orphan for it.
@@jonathanschubert9052 True, but she shouldn't blame superheros as a whole for that. It's not as if superheros were telling people to rely on superheros _only_ . It was her dad's own fault, but I understand needing something to blame in her grief. It's a pretty good motive, it just could've been executed better. imo.
I wish they'd fleshed evelyns villian story and tied it into the first movie like if SHE was the one who gave syndrome the idea to create the robots to get rid of all superheroes. And she KNEW about who incredibles were and since syndrome failed she decided to encourage her brother to campaign for making supers legal again to bring them and the rest out of hiding. Making her hate for them more threatening.
@@biaswrecker987 When I first saw the movie, one of the first things I said when leaving the theater was that this should've been a prequel set during--or just before--the legal process of getting rid of the super heroes. It would have made Evelyn's motivation fit a lot more. Then they could have her tie into Syndrome as well.
@@Scoped21 Bird said he was open to an idea of a sequel to The Incredibles, but only if it could be better than the original. He stated, "I have pieces that I think are good, but I don't have them all together. That explains everything.
The Incredibles 2 is to The Incredibles what The Force Awakens is to Star Wars; completely undermines all the accomplishments and characters arcs of the original, even going as far as to character assassinate the protagonists, just to set everything back to square one so the sequel can do a worse-in-every-way rehash of the first film's plot.
I wish they'd used one of the dead supers from the first movie back to be a villain instead of "erm my daddy died now i hate supers" lady There was one, I forget his name, who was one of the super featured in the interview tapes on the bonus disc who had megalomaniacal tendencies and saw supers as a superior race. Imagine he just barely escapes the island with his life, brutally scarred physically and mentally. Him being forced underground and being made illegal by society, then lured to remote island to be slaughtered alongside many of his fellow super by a non-super would be an EXTREMELY compelling villain origin story. And having a known super committing acts of evil would actually create a good reason for there to be tension and difficulty in reverting the laws that made supers illegal
Yooo that would have been legitimately fantastic. Plus it would have been an excellent opportunity to talk about why eugenics and the concept of one race being "genetically superior" are wrong and dangerous mindsets, which is unfortunately very topical again nowadays :(
Wow, this is so cool! I'd love to see this. And there is no way to say that there aren't other supers who were "terminated" that are still alive. If Bob could make it out, I'm sure there's another that could as well.
I can remember way back in 2014 when Incredibles 2 was announced, all the theories of what the movie would be about. I can still remember the most common one: Incredibles 2 would feature Jack Jack as a teenager or young adult dealing with the idea of being seen as a "weirdo" and being outcast in a world of people with super powers, all due to his MULTIPLE super powers. Perhaps he would develop some sort of god complex due to being "better" and stronger than all the other supers, and he would become the movies anti-hero. Perhaps he would even turn out just like Syndrome. Jaded with the world for their treatment of him but still wanting to help people in his own way. Instead we got a movie that is SUPPOSED to take place moments after the end of the first movie yet acts like it takes place months or even years after the fact.
Taking place immediately after the first was indeed Brad Bird's vision, he didn't want to have to figure out how to deal with Violet and Dash being adults, and he also wanted to keep baby Jack Jack.
@@rod4309 Bird said he was open to an idea of a sequel to The Incredibles, but only if it could be better than the original. He stated, "I have pieces that I think are good, but I don't have them all together. That explains everything.
@@Nebulasecura It doesn't help that the actors playing the characters apologies to the audiences before the movie starts, for the film taking a while to get made. It makes you question, was Bird pressured by the fans to make this?????
@@orangeslash1667 Disney pushed incredibles 2 forward a year while toy story 4 got that extra year of development. Whether Disney did it because of fan pressure remains uncertain, but damn was that a hella mistake on Disney's part because this movie does feel half baked.
only started the video, but… In my opinion, there’s a reason that Brad Bird never felt like coming back for a sequel until he needed a win after TOMORROWLAND flopping so hard I never needed a sequel to THE INCREDIBLES. Bird designed the first movie and it’s characters for a specific purpose, and that film was a complete statement. Of course going back to the well resulted in something redundant I enjoyed the sequel for the aesthetics upgrade and some setpieces, but I came out of it remembering very little about the story due to the obligatory finale
this is the first critique of the movie ive seen that i feel really goes to the heart of the problem. ive seen so many reviews that have the same conclusion but i found their arguments weak. i feel at peace knowing someone was able to voice an opinion similar to mine but with much more clarity and articulation than i ever could
Incredibles 2 is an example of Pixar's desperation to stay afloat in my opinion. Most Pixar films are meant to be contained in one story. Continuing said story not because it could benefit from one but just for a quick buck is very telling of the company that makes said sequel. This movie was a completely unnecessary cash grab that dumps on the characters, story, and world we know and love.
The thing is...I think it's very doable to create a sequel for the incredibles that doesn't destroy the previous characters and story, but they failed horribly at doing so. It's as if they have no idea what made their older movies so great in the first place.
but like they add on to all the same themes from the first one and add missing things that were left out of the first, yeah it was a cash grab but it got your cash and a cash grab can be good quality
The fact that the second movie hates on Bob/Mr. Incredible angers me so much because he is my favorite character. That is one of the biggest reasons I absolutely HATE the second film.
I actually don’t feel like the movie hated on Bob at all. I think they paid attention to his character and him working out how to be a stay at home day when he desires to go fighting crime. I think the movie wanted it to be focused on Helen and her being the one to bring superheros back but they spent a lot of time making her look good forgetting all about her actual character
i just wanna say THANK YOU so much for making this video. i honestly consider this movie one of pixar’s weakest. i’ve had a very big disdain for the lack of character and story progression in this film that other animated sequels excel at, yet don’t get the credit they deserve cause they’re not pixar. i feel like this movie’s public reception rides hard on the coattails of its predecessor and its studio. it is so great to see a long critique on this movie written by someone who actually understands what makes a screenplay work or not, and someone who isn’t afraid to acknowledge when a lesser movie like this one is able to get some things right as well! a lot of longer video essays critiquing films tend to just be written by people who go in full throttle in a bad way, viewing nitpicks on the same level as genuine flaws. leaving their critiques feeling very shallow, vapid, and biased. this video is different, it’s nuanced! i really appreciate the maturity you have on display here! i hope you consider doing more essays on films like this in the future. especially animated ones. cause let me tell you, as an animation fan, there aren’t very many video makers who are able to treat them with the same amount of maturity as you put on display here. great stuff, subscribed.
@@aemovieguyreviews Bird said he was open to an idea of a sequel to The Incredibles, but only if it could be better than the original. He stated, "I have pieces that I think are good, but I don't have them all together. That explains everything.
I already had a lot of problems with Incredibles 2, but man this video really drove a lot of stuff home that I never even put together myself. It's just so disappointing. I really appreciated the vibe of the video though. It was calm and reasonable, and it made sure to point out what _was_ there. I'm confident that if the film got a proper amount of time, we might've actually ended up with a great movie overall. There were so many moments in this video where alternate scenes or little line changes add SO MUCH. The movie we got felt barebones, despite all of the overlapping plots and ideas. But we can at least see that there were skeletons that could've been fleshed out.
Imagine how much more interesting it would be if Winston ended up being a villain too... And Evelyn didn't realize it. So he'd basically be playing 4D chess behind Evelyn's back, in the middle of her evil plan, in order to further some selfish goal or something (idk what his motivation would be though). If executed well, that would have been a really cool twist... Certainly better than the "twist" of just Evelyn being evil. They BOTH should have been villains with different ideals.
He could have been so desperate in his drive to campagain the re-legalisation of superheros so he had someone to scheme against, because global politicians "think too small" or are too "petty, to be worthy advasaries" or something. So in making superhero legal again he can loophole into making supervillians legal again as well. That way the writers hinting that Evelyn could be "redeemed" could have some "weight" because now she has/wants to stop or get even with her brother who is now a global supervillian, who knows a lot of how superheros like Mr. Incredible, Frozone and Elastagirl work and think, which could open the door for future hero's like Violet, Dash, Void, Brick etc to step up and be the dark horses or something. Just spitballing ideas.
Picture this, the underminer attacks and unfortunately supers are still illegal but things are under way to change that. The underminer attacks and Helen points out that the law hasn't changed yet and Bob wants to make supers look good here. During the attack the underminer gets away in his giant drill with the bank money, also Bob saves Mr. Devor from dying and while he wasn't acting for supers before have things have changed now and he speaks of his fathers live for supers and the law actually stopped a super from saving him from specifically a super villain, as in regular cops can't help. Maybe Evelynn is working with the underminer or something idk.
@@Pinkyorangegirl True, and if Evelynn was working in some way with him then it would tie the two movies a lot better, because then she didn't just come out of nowhere, she would be implied to already be a threat ever since the first movie and, though we never saw her, we would get a better feeling that the world is alive and stuff are happening behind the scenes
@@PinkyorangegirlI DISAGREE STRONGLY! ☝️☝️ No but seriously. I think the Underminer could have been left out of the film entirely. People seriously overhyped what was effectively a joke villain who was only there at the end of the first film to remind the audience that there are still bad people out there, and therefore supers coming back and the Incredibles uniting under a single purpose are objectively good things. I knew going into the second film that there wouldn't be a timeskip, but the fact that they started off RIGHT where the last one ended was a little cringeworthy. And I can't help but think that part of the reason for this was that the filmmakers wanted to please the fans by finally showing the "epic confrontation" between the Incredibles and the Underminer, something that, at least to me, was obviously not the point of his inclusion in the first film.
@@nathancollins1715 If he was a joke they could've left him out entirely, but because he declared war on peace and happiness they had something going for him. The second film reconed that and made him into a joke.
Omg I just realized this film perfectly had set up Violet and Dash sneaking out of the house under Bob's watch to do some vigilante stuff like Bob used to and they blew it!!! Yknow Bob would have joined in with them too or maybe even go against his own wishes after seeing one of them, most likely Dash, Get slightly injured and put an end to it and maybe even have him switch his stance on being Super Heroes along with Helen switching hers. Ughhhh!!! Plus we could have seen if Dash's Super speed also gives him speedy Healing too 😫😫😫
Underminer: declares war on peace and happiness, robs bank, leaves, refuses to elaborate. Like, what? Like his name, but what's he gonna use the money for? What's with announcing and not stealthing it more until he gets to the bank? I wanted that to be the rest of the movie.
They wanted a generic, forgettable villain to set up the opening scene. The thought process was as simple as: he villain. villains rob banks. If they can't be bothered to make the main villain coherant, why would they do anything but the bare minimum for the Underminer?
it's a superhero trope, you know superheroes, like the ones in the movie like the ones for teens and young kids. like idk the remark in incredible one that they love to monologue and have big egos
Jack Jack should have been used a metaphor for raising a child with special needs. Bob should have learned that his children need 'Bob' they dont need Mr Incredible (he just needs to show up and do his best to be a good Dad).
@@tankbeast8480 in the first one, he wasnt present for his kids, then he learnt he needed to be. The sequel should have shown that while he's now present in their lives, he doesnt have to have all the answers or be perfect, sometimes just showing up and showing you care is enough. Idk
@@pepperpeterpiperpickled9805 he has been showing up and he was showing up in the first one, the first one is about him still trying to catch his glory days. He was there for the kids just not as much as YOU like. But you don’t determine the standard for fathers no one does, so yes he was there in the home etc just not as much as YOU like.
@@tankbeast8480 no he wasnt present the life of his family. we see him not paying attention to his family during dinner then later he says 'my family is the biggest adventure and i almost missed it' or something similar
This movie is linked to one of the best and most disappointing memories I’ve ever had- bittersweet in many ways. I was invited by a relative who had connections at Pixar to come see the incredibles 2 at an early, invite-only private showing at Pixar studios in California. It was a dream come true for an animation geek and artist like me, and the tour I got before was eye opening. It was just too bad the film itself was so, so disappointing. I still look back with fondness on that day, but I think it was the moment some of the shine wore off Pixar and it really dawned on me that even gods can bleed.
More like be corrupted from within. Honestly this film was the beginning of Pixar valuing the message over story. It was subtle here, but not so subtle as to be hidden. Look at half the new supers designs. Very stereotypical LGBT activist(twitter activist) aesthetics. Especially the green haired rainbow suit wearing super. That was was too absurd for me to take seriously. Had to have been someone's self insert to a degree. Also, EVERY female in the original had strictly feminine features. So uh, might wanna watch it again. The fact you even admitted it was Queer Coded proves my point.
@@CommanderRedEXEyour conspiracy theory does not even make sense. Those side super characters arent what makes 2's story fundamentally flawed. They could have been designed to be visually consistant and it wouldnt change that theyre just props with no development.
@George-zj9rr No, but look at the background supers again. You have a lesbian stand in, transwoman stand in, so on. My point was "Woke" feminist messaging took precedent over good quality writing as they chose to deliberately push "The Message", their agenda.
@@CommanderRedEXE a) without proper art direction to reign things in the designs will not be cohesive or mesh with those of the first movie. that's the issue here, there's nothing about the art style of the original which says you can't have a woman without androgynous features or whatever it is that tipped you off about some background character. it's the execution that's problematic, the rest is your mental illness because b) what propaganda is there? that superheroes and people in general are diverse? horrific. that does not impact the writing at all. they might have pushed for an idealized girlboss elastigirl yes, but that's a different thing and has nothing to do with bad or queer-coded character designs in the background. that's the artists, not the writers
Dude the first movie came out the year that I was BORN. And I have watched it growing up. I am 19 now and Is STILL in my top 10 favorite movies of all time. I was SO hyped when I heard it was going to have a 2⁰ one. And then when it came out... I liked it? But never stuck out to me like the first to the point I FORGOT that existed. Such a major let down. I just found your channel now. And I can't WAIT to see your take on this movie
Why did they make all the other new superheroes look so....weird in this movie. Everyone in the incredibles are stylized, but the new supers here go beyond stylization and seem to be purposefully ugly. very strange.
I thought the exact same thing, the base models that they used for superheroes in the first incredibles were you to put them in civilian clothing would fit right into the world of the incredibles and I think that was the point which is brilliant, whereas these wannabe vigilantes in the second seem like caricatures and do not fit into the world of the incredibles and would look so out of place if you placed them in civilian clothing, they'd stick out like a sore thumb.
Cockiness maybe, or probably because he thought he never thought he’d use the phone for emergencies and only for funsies? No the excuse makes this scene dumb af 😂😂
Ugh and they couldve done so many interesting things with the family grappling with their changing roles as supers become legal again. Bob and Helen trying to relive the glory days, but realizing that its not the same now that theyre older and have kids to protect. Violet and Dash dealing with taking on the responsibility and attention of being super, etc...
I love this idea! Exactly they would start by trying to relive the glory days with big events and saving tons of people, but then they're both missing some big achievements, as they start to reprioritize, they realize they don't even want to be out there supering all the time, they'd rather be there to foster and mentor their children into becoming the best they can. But this shift away from supering after it's legal again, ends up brewing the conflict in which the kids must save the parents, which they all learn to be who they are, not put too much into either supering or family but to let it all come as it comes, as long as they do it together.
I’m not far into the video but I hope you bring up how Frozone saves the day for the first crisis, saves the kids from the mind control, and saves everyone on the yacht… but NEVER gets the credit.
I love this breakdown -- and honestly when y ou were talking about the kids having perfect powers for beating Screenslaver, my mind couldn't help but get trapped in how NARATIVELY PERFECT THAT IS when Evelyn was being so condescending towards kids and family. It's like.. how did they not use that? (Granted, you've got 3 hours of "WHY DID THEY NOT USE THAT?!" so yeah, haha) Great vid, man!
damn man, that line about stay at home mothers and fathers being heroic and balanced hit hard. amidst all the dialogue i see nowadays from men and women becoming increasingly hostile to each other, it would have been so refreshing to see a story where both are treated as heroes, as equals, working together. now that really would have been a worthy successor to one of my favorite animated films.
I've always wanted more long form videos like this but I often end up feeling really bored by them. This consistently makes great points, and I think you've made a real effort to understand this movie and why it is the way it is. Feel free to cook again 🔥
thank god someone finally speaks up about how disappointing incredibles 2 really is it isn’t a bad film but it still lacks the suspense, emotion, and character growth the first film had. tbh, the second movie was very bland 😢
There seems to be a noticeable stigmatism towards being "motherly" in modern movies and media. As if being a mother is somehow a bad thing. Even in the live action Avatar: The Last Airbender remake, they removed all of Katara's motherly traits. Its like they're afraid to show women doing one of the most noble things a human can do... Being a mother.
I mean.. how about the OTHER Avatar movie with a strong motherly figure that came out relatively recently? Or the fact that Helen is motherly in this movie? Like.. what?
On the other hand, an overcorrection is natural(though not correct) when there is a very insistant section of society that keeps shouting "WOMEN CAN ONLY BE MOTHERS AND NOTHING ELSE. WOMANHOOD IS DEFINED BY YOUR ABILITY TO HAVE BABIES, AND THAT IS YOUR ONLY USE" You know, the kind of people who set up booths at MAGA rallies insisting on socially enforcing Tradwives and arguing against women being allowed to be involved in politics(the one I'm thinking of was run by women, so thats hypocritical), or how conservative media like Ladyballers(which the director originally intended on it being a documentary, but found no sports league would allow trans women to compete without a year+ on HRT, and they couldn't find any men willing to go on HRT just to compete. So instead of accepting their premis was flawed, instead shifted gears to a "comedy") had a heartwarming scene where a father tells his daughter that she will never be as good as a man, but at least she can have babies. Hell, I've seen children's books express the same sentiment. Little boys can run and play sports and all these things... but little girls can have babies, isn't it great how God made everyone good at different things? Media looking down upon being a stay at home parent is an issue, but its not the only weird attitude towards women and motherhood in media.
Tbf they didn't even let Katara have any emotions. She's not allowed to be angry and or sassy she's a shell of herself and none of her traits are shown. Same with Aang honestly.
@@bobtheball5384 Yeah... Most of the characters aren't characterized properly. Even Sokka (who has the least egregious characterization) is a shell of his former self.
I do find it funny that at the end you reveal the review is about 4 years late and you had to stitch it all together, given some of the final talks about how Disney likely pressured with deadlines. It's just a funny small thing. This is a great review/opinion piece. I really enjoyed your ideas for how to re-write parts, as a casual writer myself I think all the changes you talked about are all changes that would make a great story, *especially* the part about Evelyn's backstory, honestly you gave me a very amusing idea of if the story was swapped around a bit, just a little bit, they could have made a great reference to the first movie I'd have appreciated. Something like, Helen is tied up not in a place where she can't use her power, and while Evelyn explains her backstory, Helen is moving a hand to a computer to send say, the location she's at to Bob for him to come save her, and as Evelyn is finishing, she notices, stops her last sentence and tases the hand again like she was during the Screen Slaver fight, and Helen just goes through the pain "Heh... I caught you monologuing" before Evelyn just turns on the mind control very annoyed. Then the rest of the movie can continue like normal except instead of Bob getting called somewhere by Evelyn as a setup she takes the opportunity and sets up how she gets Bob. Same end result where they both get captured, but adds a fun chance for a backstory scene to be a bit more dynamic than just a flashback. Anyway, very good job on the whole project, listened from beginning to end in one sitting.
The only writer credited is the director Brad Bird. I feel like if he had some collaboration with women on this he might have made Helen’s character as well rounded as Bob’s. Bc as women, most of us relate to the super common, never ending guilt that comes with balancing being your own person and being a caretaker of your family (any members not just kids) like we’re socialized to be. I feel like women in the writing room would have helped flesh out this relatable nuance in Helen’s character, especially since this movie focuses on her more than the last one. p.s. I’m only 30 minutes in so for all i know you say all of this later haha
When Incredibles 2 released on Blu-ray, Pixar actually included a behinds-the-scenes video about their employees, who struggled with juggling parenthood & an animation career: ua-cam.com/video/M8GqcJIDI2I/v-deo.html
"I'm not trying to be mean spirited" "He's a woman? Like biologically?" Personally, I thought Voyd was supposed to be a trans girl. Missed opportunity for her to be a full character. And I wish the new characters looked more stylistically close to the original characters. The movie felt shallow and just didn't hold up to the first one. Evelyn being the "twist villain" was too obvious.
Ok, I have something to say about Violet taking care of Jack Jack or whatever. Sometimes I have to watch my baby brother and I’m pretty much the same age as her, I know she is a super ‘n all but still. I have to watch my baby brother sometimes and it honestly hurts me mentally, I get too overwhelmed and I’m not patient enough for it which leads me to feel guilty that I may not be doing enough or that I’m too mean. And if my 5 year old non-super brother can overwhelm me to the point of almost having a breakdown, how could Jack Jack, a full super baby with many powers, not overwhelm Violet and hurt her to? My aunt says kids my age shouldn’t be looking after little kids like this, she would know. She HAD to when she was little. I’m just saying I don’t agree with the Violet taking up the responsibility of babysitting JackJack and I understand that a normal human babysitter wouldn’t work either. This is just something I personally don’t agree, I like everything else in the video. Keep up the good work ❤️ 👍
I’ve seen a TON of video essays and this is one on the best!!! It’s insanely in depth and I love how you always follow your critiques with creative solutions. Anyone can say something is bad but it takes an artist to observe what works, what can be improved, and how it’ll come together. Seriously fan freaking tastic job on this video!
What an amazing break down. I'd love to see more in-depth movie opinion videos like this- and maybe make it your channel's thing because seriously, your quality is impeccable and people WILL stick.
I hate how modern Hollywood dont know what makes a mother strong. Kicking ass is good and all, but Hellen is a mother, and a pretty hekking good one at that. The movie would be so much better if the family was together for the majority of the film, would also help if they had a time skip. Remember, the first came out a decade ago, Jack Jack would be the age of Dash, and Violet would be in her late 20's if they had a 1 to 1 time skip. At least fast forward a few years or so.
The intent honestly seems like they simply wanted to push the false idea than men cannot handle being stay at home or running a household, while also pushing the typical female empowerment story we've come to expect from most Disney/Pixar films. Hollywood really has gone to heck in a handbasket...
@@voiceunderthecovers Bob is portrayed as barely being capable of keeping it together while helen's defeat is nothing compared of how mr incredible was defeated.
“so simple, even he could do it” is actually a reference to REAL ads from around the time this movie is trying to emulate, they’d market easy to make food products like coffee and what have you as “so easy a man could do it” because it was usually the woman’s job to do that stuff and a lot of men didn’t even know how to make that stuff in the first place.
@@FrostyMts idk, I just know it was a marketing campaign 🤷♂️ plus I’m sure it’s not a surprise that a lot of people weren’t very smart back then especially when it came to advertising.
@@sethmccutcheon9296 It doesn't work because the misogynistic logic was that because men invented it it may be complicated for women but is not , here is just a reverse slogan without lore explaination , kind if like if i made a movie where space related stuff is nonexistent and i made a amongus reference.
Such a good video. Truly. I'm really impressed with your level of explanation and analysis. You were able to put to words a lot of the qualms I had with the movie, like the "character assassination" of basically the entire Parr family. I was beyond sad to see how Bob was portrayed in this movie. Did the first movie arc not even happen?! How was he reduced to a caricature of only the egotistical part of himself? The Incredibles 2 is basically the Incredibles but less good and with more saturated, detailed animation. This seems to be a common trend in movies, that they take the first movie's story beats and overlay the sequel on it. It becomes the same movie, but more diluted and tiresome. (Although many individual elements of the movie were solid, in the long run, the first film will make a greater cultural and societal impact) It's such a shame the filmmakers weren't given more time to make this movie the masterpiece the original is. So many pieces were there, they just needed time (and perhaps less involvement from Disney as a whole). Again, awesome video and thanks for the incredible work you did to make it!!!
I do wonder what the quality of film would be if they were given that year of production. Because this movie has so much potential but ultimately squandered it. Although one good thing was the fact it wasn't outright a bad movie but just mediocre with good sprinkled in here and there.
This was such a well thought out review. It really addressed a lot of things that I thought I was crazy for thinking, I'm so glad I'm not the only one. As a stay at home mom, I was pretty bummed to watch as Helen just did not seem to care or be effected by going back into the working world. Heck, when we call a babysitter so my husband and I can have some much needed date time I feel twitchy for like the first half hour because my kids aren't with me. My kids are all still very young (4, 2, 1), so I am never away from them pretty much the entire day. I would loved to have seen her go through an adjustment period and maybe some well thought out conflict that could resolve in a way that gives hope to those of us who wonder how we're going to make the transition when our kids are older and don't need us as much anymore. Additionally, I would really have liked to see the contrast between Evelyn and Helen be more thought out, it would have been a great way to rework in that barbeque scene from the first movie! The concept of Superhero Family felt a bit lost on this film and it's such a shame! The way Helen belittles Bob and doesn't react defensively when he's talked down about especially when he isn't around? That honestly made me feel sick inside, I would never let anyone talk about my husband that way, it's just not right. I would love to see more long form reviews like this one!
I dont see many recommendations to upvote but I'd like to see you talk about any movie you care about or from a franchise you love, think about a lot, or that you think has an interesting story behind its creation. I enjoyed this one because it was thoughtful and it felt like you cared a lot about the movie and how it affected a property you seemed to really enjoy (Incredibles). I enjoyed the humor quite a bit with the stitching in of clips. And because I felt like it told a really nice story not only of why you have the opinion stated at the beginning but also the story of why the movie may have turned out this way with a lot of behind the scenes information and using the words of the cast and crew as direct evidence to help tell that story for you. I learned a lot while having a good time and importantly you have expanded my understanding and viewpoint on the film. I'm a frequent longform movie and story analysis listener and this is top quality IMO. Didnt even realize this was a smaller channel until the end section. I expected 500k at least based on the content. Cheers.
I'm only a few minutes into your video essay/review, but I just had to say I'm very relieved to see your unexpected return AEmovieguy. I discovered your channel back in December 2017; enamored by your valid & heartfelt criticisms toward THE LAST JEDI. I was upset that more people hadn't discovered your channel and assumed that you had given up and moved on to something else. Despite being subscribed to your channel for the past 6 years, I only received notification of this video 3 days after premiering. Regardless, it's so great to see you come back in a BIG way, and I hope we will be seeing more new reviews (be they long or short form) in the near future.
Just wanted to come back and add, on a more personal note--I really, *really* feel you on the struggles of being a creator, maintaining discipline and accepting criticism without losing your optimism and creativity is really hard. I've had those long dry spells myself as a writer, and even now I'm still a little scared that I'll just never "make it," or "be good enough." It was comforting to find out I wasn't alone, and encouraging to see you made such a great video even with all of that struggle. So, thanks for that, and I wish you all the luck in the world with your future (hopefully not evil) endeavors. 💖
Helen saying that "if the law is unjust, there are laws to change them" is the stupidest thing they said in this movie. If the people truly in charge don't want change, change won't happen. The "law" doesn't apply when the people truly in charge have all the politicians in their pockets, how do you think Roe v Wade happened despite the vast majority of the country being against it? Reform doesn't work, Bob is right, you don't need the law to know what is right, revolution is the only good method for actual lasting change.
Can't entirely agree. REFORM can get you change. Revolution usually gets you massacres, wars, and dictatorships. French Revolution: ended in Napoleon becoming first dictator then emperor of France. Russian Revolution: ended in Communist dictatorship under first Lenin then Stalin. Mexican Revolutions: depending on how long a time period you want to use, they tended to end in instability or dictatorship. 1848 Revolutions: Bizarre mixture of failure in much of Europe actually cementing the governments they meant to change and the successful creation of a French Second Republic that barely survived a decade. The more you try to change in a revolution, the more things tend to break. Lasting change is created, but it's often not the change originally sought.
This video is amazing. The voiceover was a perfect balance of aggression and calmly stated opinions. Didn't feel like too much of a ramble, listened to the whole thing while editing, and it was one of the best sessions I've had in a while. Seriously, stellar job!
What I don’t understand is why the sequel HAD to start with the Underminer fight? I never saw it as a cliffhanger. I saw it as, like you said, they’re back. The second movie should’ve started completely different
Yeah, I think a lot of the "character regression" problems would feel less offensive if it was a few years later - Slipping back into old habits because change is hard, instead of just people switching who they are basically instantly, in-universe. I thought it was a neat idea to pick up where they left off when I first heard that was the direction they chose, and maybe it could work if they told a different story with different characterization, but for what they put on screen that really hurt the movie a lot.
@@ryanhodin5014 Bird didn't wanna do a time jump, he wanted to pick up right where the first left off. He wanted to keep the kids as kids, especially Jack Jack.
@@billybarnett9518 Totally understandable. I thought it was neat too, and I still think it could have worked... If they had invested a LOT more in making the characters and setting fit well with the end of the first movie, or at least provided a smooth transition. If they didn't want to do that, which evidently they didn't based on the movie we got, they needed to move the setting to give time for us to imagine it happened in before we picked the movie back up.
love the editing in this video. makes the context really coherent to understand with the actual clips being played next to their discussion. the use of the dialogue clips as a part of the script was also really cute. every clip used as b-roll also seems to totally make sense and few clips are overused for such a long video, which is easy to take for granted until you understand how many videos arent at all good at this. perfect example of simple yet great video editing
Thank you for fighting through to get us this behemoth of a review. Welcome back, we're proud of you whether you take three weeks or three years to get us that next one
Something I find so frustrating in recent shows and movies as a woman, is when women are propped up so high, while men are beaten down repeatedly and have jokes made of them. It's not empowering, it's frustrating as all hell, and just makes me feel like there's more of a divide when we can't be seen as equals in media. I remember watching the scene with Helen screaming in delight at her 'no causalities' bit over the phone with Bob in the cinema, and feeling so off about it. He repeatedly gets jokes made at his expense, and it never sat right with me. Idk, just upsetting really, felt unjustified and went against the entire development of the characters from the first movie. Hearing all the solutions you proposed to fix Helen's story arc made me so sad they didn't realize any of that potential, you brought up amazing points. The biggest shame for me is the missed potential to empower those who chose to raise children as real superheroes, so close yet so far. Loved your breakdown and criticisms, amazing video!
Mothers are called “superheroes” all the time and they are but they aren’t actually respected or really valued by society. The patriarchy only cares about their labor. Movies usually tell women that being a mother is the empowering and not for good reason but misogyny.
The thing I've always said is I think pointing the focus on Violet as the new generation could have worked better; have Helen be her guardian as she becomes a member of a teen (all girl) group ah la Sailor Moon or The Planeteers, the family is split and now Bob has to take up parenting half his kids while having to worry about Violet's safety from what he sees on the news, Helen becomes a mentor and idol to basically the same characters they already introduced in 2 but it feeds into her mothering nature, the two parents are now at odds because they're both struggling with what they think is best for them. It could make illusions to where progression of super hero tropes went, it could explain why Helen would maybe not push back against Evelyn's quips because she's trying to not trample her daughter's ambition, it could give conflict to Violet who's now frustrated between trying to keep her relationship that was just starting to form, it could hurt Dash for something that makes him feel left behind when he's more invested in heroism than his sister. Only half way through the video but its something that got reignited in me that I wish I had seen. Helen's switch up always felt like such a betrayl because to me, it can *come off* like Brad Bird superficially addresses feminist ideas through the lens of whoever his wife is at the moment rather than considering reasons a stay at home mother he doesn't know would make her choices.
This was a fantastic watch! When I saw this movie with some friends, we left feeling rather unsatisfied and underwhelmed. This breakdown helped me understand why I had trouble enjoying it, and I loved the context of the behind the scenes info.
2:09:39 Another thing... WHY wouldn't Dicker tell Bob and Ellen that Jack Jack has powers? Did he just _assume_ they knew already??? Its his job to keep track of superhero protection for the government, so surely he would know who has powers and who doesn't, and think somethings up when Jack Jack has powers despite not being registered to have any? Or am I just insane for thinking that a government agency would have that level of organization?
one thing i hated was that they totally changed the time period that the universe was set in, it was supposed to be a family from the 70s/80s and then out of nowhere they swap to 2020 for the sake of having modern tech
60s/70s, but close enough. Honestly, seeing how some of the new supers were blatantly LGBT stereotypes to some degree or other, that's likely the true reason it's set in modern time. LGBT wasn't really publicly accepted in the 60s/70s and so the new designs wouldn't work at all. But that's to be expected given who does most of the writing in Hollywood, and what their ideologies tend to be, and how often the love putting them before the story these days.
@@CommanderRedEXEokay first of all, the movie is still set in the 50s, so no idea where either of you came up with that. Secondly, the LGBT characters you’re speaking of are barely even implied to be a metaphor for gay and trans people, and are never confirmed gay in the slightest. It’s you who believes that flashy colors and dyed hair is “gay”. Thirdly, Hollywood fucking hates gay people and has for years. Voice of Batman Kevin Conroy was called the f slur multiple times by Hollywood execs. Disney themselves censor gay characters and scenes for international markets because international markets want to KILL gay people. You are not a marginalized group. You’re punching down on people who have done nothing to you. Grow up.
i always noticed bobs anger and jealousy as a kid and disliked him after this movie. Rewatching the first they rlly butchered his character and turned him into an incel lol
I met the person who made brick and some of the other heroes! She was just as passionate about Brick as she was in the behind the scenes with brick essentially being a self-insert. I could tell that they were passionate about designing a lot of the heroes while viewing the concept art she showcased, I wish they were more than just stage pieces for fights and background characters.
impressive continuous insertion of super relevant quotes for each claim you made, only so many can edit videos this tight-knit and take the time to put in the bloopers! I never not love UA-camr bloopers
Omg that is SO funny you mention Winston being the Screenslaver instead of Evelyn, because a while back when I was talking to my sister about this movie I came up with that idea. Almost verbatim tho. what I had in mind was for both of them to come up with the Screenslaver persona for different reasons. Winston obviously wants to make supers legal again and be treated fairly, but Evelyn doesn't think people need supers and they actually hurt them in the long run due to dependency. So to prove a point she secretly sabotages the missions so they'd fail, but no one will get hurt. But not only does her sabotages backfire in a way that does put people in potential danger, they make it where ONLY supers can save them and make them look that much better. That way there is no true villain per se, not in people anyway. They'd be truly neutral on the morality scale. So the real villain will be either society or a corrupt system that average people either don't notice or question. Tho you raised a good point of making wear the costume so he'd be the face while Evelyn would be the tech part of it, much like their company. Complete side tangent, it's very ironic and really sucks that the higher-ups at Pixar and/or Disney gave more time and attention to the sequel no one wanted or asked for with Toy Story 4 (because the previous movie not only felt like a conclusion, but was full intended to be one) all while forcing the filmmakers to rush out this sequel which is one that EVERYONE asked, begged, or even demanded for. And honestly had the most potential for, like this very video goes deeply into
Your idea of having both Winston and Evelyn be Screenslaver -- but for different reasons -- sounds pretty cool. Yeah, that Toy Story 4 release date swap was brutal to learn about.
The only huge plothole in the first movie, was that the villains disappeared as well.... where were they when superheros were banned? You'd think they would band together
Update: My 3-week deadline passed without a new video, but I didn't quit! The next video needs more time to cook. It's not a 30-minute review anymore. I've listened to the feedback, and I'm making another LONG, detailed video.
In fact, it's an "In-Depth" topic, inspired by one of the comments on this video: Why I Think The Incredibles Is "Slow In Places."
The script is big. It's going to take quite a few more weeks to make the video. I'm rusty after 4 years. I'll keep working on it, slow and steady. Weekly updates can be found on my Community Posts page.
Thank you all for giving this Incredibles 2 video a chance!
I'm reading the feedback, including the negative comments, which I'll consider.
Take care,
-AEmovieguy
Jesse, we need more time to cook
Glad you’re giving your content more time to bake than Disney execs are willing to give to their filmmakers.
On a serious note, truly wish this film had that extra time to bake. It needed a few passes with a fine tooth comb, and an analysis like this one makes it clear just how many good ideas they could’ve shaped into a worthy follow up to the original.
Please edit the Incredibles 2 video to delete the transphobic Brick joke. Just please, and never make insensitive jokes (e.g. the transphobic one) ever again.
@@KnightEclipser "Please take down and reupload a 3+ hr long video thats already been up for a month because I am offended. I dont care that you wont make any money on the project anymore, I just want the vid that I already watched to have one less thing in it."
@@KnightEclipser You must’ve never made a mistake in your life I’m sure you’re so perfect. Only someone who feels privileged and entitled would have the nerve to tell people what they are doing wrong when they themselves are full of mistakes. Stop telling people what to do with their own content. At the heart of your narrative is complete and total narcissism. Not everything reflects your feelings
Not giving Helen any internal conflict or further complexity is not empowering her but rather making her into a character that most women will find it hard to relate to. It’s like the writers got so lost in trying to make her a “girlboss” that they forgot to make her a person.
And they had SO many good opportunities for a feminist exploration of what women experience when they decide to have a career beside their family.
She was way more of a ''Girlboss'' in the first movie, but specifically because they gave her a more complex identity
This. I agree with this so much. Most girlbosses characters who are strong for the sake of it, fall really hollow, and are often just the subject of "admiration" rather than a real connection with said character. It's always "(girlboss character) is so strong, hot etc.", but never "(girlboss character) is just like me."
@@voiceunderthecovers I'm a woman why do you guys keep assuming my gender 😭 do I pass as a man so much? Wtf - I meant the girlbosses that are written now. I think those women characters are relatable because they have flaws, and internal conflicts that can resonate with people. Like Mulan's struggle with identity and expectation of her. I meant that I am very disappointed with the girlboss characters that people write about now, cuz they're just as flat as the damsel in distress characters that people tend to criticize. Not because they are strong, but because their only purpose is to be strong. Like how Mulan went from relatable, to "you must have special powers and shit to be special, and if you don't have em just go suck it up" in the Live Action remake.
Also when did I say, "women should relate to this", I only said what I feel and observed as a woman in social media and stuff.
@@voiceunderthecovers she said strong *for the sake of it*. All of the characters you mentioned have more to their characters than being strong.
That one line: “I’m not- I Can’t LOSE YOU again… I’m not… Strong enough.”
That gets me, that gives me goosebumps, that tears me up a little.
Can you imagine the utter anguish that swallowed him when he thought his family died on their way to save him? The thoughts running through his head as he relived every moment of his selfishness, his ambition, his pride, killed the people he loves most?
People don’t just go through something like that only to go back to shallow egotistical ways three months later, he ripped himself apart inside out mentally and emotionally for hours, hanging in place with nothing to think about but the fact that he ruined everything, killed his wife, and his children for som paltry fun.
That makes me kinda despise this movie tbh.
Don't even forget to mention the fact that he was damn near about to *kill* Mirage because he felt like he had nothing to lose at that point.
Perfectly understandable. The Incredibles was pretty much a masterpiece, where The Incredibles 2 should have been direct to DVD/streaming, so we could decide if it was official or not
@saltystick_99 perfectly understandable given the circumstances. I'd have been ready to sink the entire island, and I'm pretty sure that was on his bucket list somewhere in that moment
Bob's arc was the only one that was almost doomed from the start. Almost. It would take a lot of finesse to make Bob come out as struggling with the family home life while not breaking his character by making him come off as a lame moron.
Bob's character in the first movie was depicted as brave, possibly a little reckless and dedicated and caring to his family. His main struggle was with finding a sense of purpose, which he resolved by the end of the movie by directing it more towards his family emotionally.
To stay consistent, they would have needed to show his dedication and effort while having him still fail until he figures things out. In a way, he does do this in the movie. Problem is all the freaking out and whining. He can have bags under his eyes from caring for the baby, while not letting his exhaustion show. He can help Dash with a math test only for Dash to fail because he got the right answer, the wrong way. But all the time he needs to stay in control of himself, if not the situation.
Yup. I really wish Disney had never made the sequel. It retroactively ruined a masterpiece.
all the characters from the first movie look like they’re from the 60s but all the new characters look like they’re from the 2010s.
For me personally, it's the other way around. The first movie looks more modern while Incredibles 2 went overboard with the 60s aesthetic.
@tobiasburrell6055 I think upping the saturation and exaggerating the 60s aesthetic definitely dates it as a product of the 10's-20's design trend tho. The original goes for realism to portray what it would ACTUALLY look like for a family living in that time, and the new one is a corporatized 60' "aesthetic". In reality, (lower) middle class American life looked pretty much the same back then as it does now, which Is why the original movie still feels relatable. It comes through clearly that real humans with lives created the movie. I think the aesthetification of Incredibles 2 is a byproduct of corporate detachment from human experiences, and it has created a look in children's movies that has been prevalent mostly in the past decade. 2 doesn't actually FEEL 60's, it feels modern. The original IS 60's, but is still relatable.
Personally, I kind of wish they played up the campiness of the 60s in more of the newer characters. The Deavors both seem to fit weirdly subtle, conservative 60s styles, but yeah the new super crew looks a little modernised, why not give them all the wild colours and prints of 60s psychedelia, punks, the very rights activists for the communities they are supposed to represent? Idk, at least give one of them that silly 60s beehive style 😂
And Tony. He looks like a Tumblr sexyman. In the first movie, he was perfectly established as a mix between Steve Jobs in the 60s, and an accurately dweeby teen. There was actually an endearing silliness to how much Violet crushed on him, he isn't the most handsome boy in the world, yet he's special to her, just like how it feels to crush on a guy back at school. Having him be a supermodel kind of removes the grounded normality to Violet's crush. Bring back dorky Tony!!
Maybe next genners are getting weird from further gene mutation to keep up with their powers- is this just MHA/X-Men all over again? We see that powers are 100% randomized and the superhero gene only gives you powers, unlike in mha/x-men where powers can be passed down with changes. Too bad we only have 2 movies and not 2 seasons to explore their world and society but I doubt anything could've been done with the premise.
@@tobiasburrell6055 That's because two of it's main influences are from the 60's, Fantastic Four and X-Men, not to mention the movies are set during the 60's with more advanced technology.
Bob did work for an insurance company in the first movie.
His job was literally to deny claims illegally and scam people outta using the insurance. The old lady from the start literally had full coverage and insuracare was refusing to pay out unless they were sued, which they knew she couldn't due to being on a fixed income, more than willing to let a nice old lady to go homeless to increase their bottom line. Bob literally had to tell her a work around to get what she paid for! I doubt Disney would have let Incredibles 2 expose the fact that ya gotta sue insurance companies 9/10 if ya wanna get what ya paid for. It's one if Disney's more profitable "investments" after all!
It’s also set in the 60s, shit like that has been exposed and dealt with years ago
@@oldylad Ha, someone's definitely bourgeois. Try asking literally anyone with a fixed income below $40 an hour.
@@nkbujvytcygvujno6006 Most people I know make less than that, and not ONCE have I heard someone have a problem with insurance getting paid out.
@@John-fk2ky Then ask.
@@oldyladnone of those issues have been dealt with
Can we please talk about the whacky ass superhero designs? They’re incredibly distracting and DONT belong. In the first movie when Mr incridble is going through the supers eliminated by syndrome NONE of them look wacky or incredibly disproportionate. Not to mention, with an appearance like that, HOW DO YOU HAVE A SECRET IDENTITY???? If you look at the behind the scenes of the first movie you can clearly see a certain art direction or feel the movie was aiming for. It’s gone in this one.
It was a very classic golden age art style. Capes and cowls and spandex. They kept the spandex.
That's exactly what I thought when I watched it. Not only the new designs are really ugly (at least for me), but how someone with that unique look can try to have a secret identity? It's ridiculous.
They don’t like they’re from the 60s
We can argue the new superheroes' costume are a result of some no name designer and not our lord and goddess herself, edna.
@@ghadlydevastated2067 not the costumes. Their actual body
The goggles should have been part of Helen's new suit so that it wasn't obvious to Bob (or shouldn't have been obvious) that she was being mind controlled. They could justify it "It's to look cool. You got the motorcycle. Now you get goggles to go with it. Marketing." And, then nothing happens with them for a while to lower our guard about them. Then Elastagirl finds out that Evil Endeavor is a bad guy and she turns them on.
Are you sure you wanna end with "and she turns them on"
That's what throws me off about the goggles too, like you can clearly tell they aren't part of the super hero's outfits. Especiallly evident given that the campaign has been showing new and old footage of the supers, so the fact that the goggles are glowing blue orbs and the hero's are speaking in a weird halting/robotic ways, you'd expect someone if not many someones in the crowd putting 2+2 together and realising that there's something not quite right with the super's basically trying to become legal again then being all "well screw you" statements out of nowhere.
Unless the glowing blue goggles aren't able to be seen/noticable by people in-universe, but then that makes no sense as to how Dash and Violet were able to figure out, rather quickly I might add, that the side-kick supers were brainwashed. Screenslaver's mode of mindcontrol really doesn't make sense.
@@BrightWulph I agree, Screenslaver's scheme and methods truly make no sense outside of "a sixty year old man had something he wanted to say about the 21st century technologies, so it makes the most sense to do that in the movie that is canonically set in the 60's"
Boom, sold
They should have had a scene where Helen returns from a rather rough fight, and she calls Bob to check in. Bob tells her about all the little status updates and while she is proud of her children, she is visibly sad because she is missing out on her family. Something like this to signal conflict, though in all honestly I would really restructure the plot of this movie.
I think there was a deleted scene like that
Ikr, I think that both parents should be finding some amount of joy and sadness in their new lives, struggling with the fact that being a superhero and being a parent are both full time jobs which they have to choose between. The overall message should have been something to the effect of 'live your life in a way that makes you fulfilled. dont let anyone choose for you' which ironically would have been *much* more feminist than whatever the movie actually says
No. They cant allow the mom to look bad in any way. Women never make mistakes after all
Doesn’t that actually happen lmao
@@jbear3478 Nah, Helen calls super excited and having had a pretty easy and productive day
Incredibles 2 is the kind of plot you would expect from a sitcom where they need to keep ending back where they begin. Not a movie with a journey or purpose.
That's exactly how I felt coming out......like nothing mattered at least compared to the first. It was an episode, not a movie.
This movie felt like it's own standalone
@@RM2011ish Don't diss episodes, even Vampire Diaries had better writing than this trash.
It was an episode of an in-universe sitcom, not a movie.
Episodic plots is what you're thinking of, I believe. No matter what happens in the episode, the characters are back to normal by the next, only showing hints of character growth occasionally if the writers decide it
Incredibles 2 was SIX YEARS AGO???!
Almost a decade. It's insane. 😮
@@tobiasburrell6055bruh 6 years is not almost a decade lmao.
@@CatGuyNeko well tbf it’s over half
@@callmepsycho3132 exactly, it's barely half...
I guess we should expect a third moive in another 8 years
Something I’ve never seen anyone really talk about is the Parr’s housing situation at the beginning of the movie. Their old house exploded at the end of the first movie. That was canonically 3 months ago. Where have they been living since then? It doesn’t seem like they’ve been living in the motel for that whole time, but even if so why are Bob & Helen only NOW having the “maybe one of us should get another job” conversation? Did the movie just forget that the Underminer didn’t show up the day after Syndrome did?
Something else I noticed, Bob was clearly being paid by Mirage and Syndrome after the first Omni-droid fight, we saw him buy a car for himself and Helen during the montage, where did that money go? Did he use it all in that montage? Did Dicker take possession of it since it's technically blood money? We never get an explanation of where it went.
In a stronger sequel, the house they move into wasn't owned by the Deavors, but Bob bought it in-between movies with state of the art technology. That makes sense because if they're going to be a crime fighting family, why wouldn't they have a house that's relatively close to the city and has a secret entrance/exit via waterfall they can access with the Incredibile (Bob's futuristic car we saw in the opening of the first film).
Speaking of the Incredibile, it doesn't make any sense why it'd be in auction anyway, unless the government purposefully gave a car with classified government technology to the general public that can change its forms from a normal car to a speedboat along with having active missiles still installed?!?!?! Wouldn't people being in possession of something like that be dangerous? Clearly, judging from what Dash almost does with the car after he and Bob see it in auction on TV.
I feel like it would be interesting if they had bobs sudden regression be caused by overstimulation, something a lot of single moms talk about being a huge struggle. They could go into the idea that bob has no support system, and that hellen faced similar issues when the kids were younger but had people to help her through it.
He could then struggle with not wanting to burden his wife and feeling like hes not strong enough to protect his family in a whole new way.
You could also pull gender biases into it with bob not knowing helen struggled. Maybe she hid it from him, went to friends so as not to trust him. Then maybe one of the kids call helen, or frozone or his wife call her, and she comes home and bob is floored because its like she fixes everything. And they get to communicate that no its not just him failing, she knows what to do because she struggled the same way.
It would’ve been fine if they’d just made Helen struggle like at all. It’s like they just dropped her character entirely in favor of girl boss woman. All it would’ve taken is her being unsure regularly and thinking about the family, and bob being the one to push her because they’re equals like they were in the first movie. That would’ve been a good conflict and a good role reversal, she was the one who thought heroing was stupid when they have a family after all
@@oldylad Well it's not that she thought it was stupid so much as, it was already illegal and punishable for years, so it was long since pretty much impossible to do, and Bob kept getting them and their family in trouble and forcing them to move every time he did it. And since villains other than Syndrome seemed to fade from the world it's not like there was any real need. Even Frozone was getting sick of it by the time the movie started. Bob had to talk him into it.
I think the biggest thing one could do to improve Incredibles II is simply to swap how Bob and Helen feel about their roles. Bob gladly takes on raising the kids in order to make up for his disillusionment with urban life from the first film; Helen is conflicted about helping improve public/Super relations because it’s taking away from her family time. Doesn’t fix every problem (we’d need a better villain and Bob doesn’t need to be so thoroughly nerfed to make the film work), but it starts with the biggest problem I2 has (characterization).
They could still do that for Incredibles 3
@@Changeling9000No, please no, oh god no
Nah i loved that bob struggled with a task he never prepped for, and neglected for years
Its a skill, and he ends up nailing it
@@PropheticShadeZneglected? It’s your typical 60s family dynamic. The dad works constantly and the mom works domestically constantly. They’re both pulling their own weight, only way you could say bob was neglecting things would be his vigilante stuff, but are parents meant to not do anything without their kids in their free time? I think because it’s a movie we just don’t see stuff like that, the movie gives no indication that Bob is a bad father or person
@PropheticShadeZ That's fine to have him struggle, but make the outlook different. Have him WANT to do it at the beginning instead of being jealous, and then fail a few times and figure out how hard it is when he hasn't done this before.
And then make Helen STAY a bit more reluctant to leave her family. That way, they both are struggling.
Helen got the modern Hollywood treatment. They're afraid of individual character flaws being taken as a dig at all women in a way that they simply aren't for male characters.
Ok Critical Drinker
Well said
@@lupinthenerd439you. Me. Freaky time
I don’t think that’s the point. I think they just didn’t want to undermine Helen when Bob was so well hyped up in the first movie up until the second half. There is no “modern Hollywood treatment”.
@@voiceunderthecovers But that doesn't make much sense , in the first movie bob is hyped for a moment thats all , his first appearence is him saving a kitty and detaining simple robbers just to be passed to a scene of him fuck1m up because of buddy and then ending up fat and chasing adrenaline illegally when he is called to fight the omnidroid he almost dies and he is only really hyped up on a small collage with Helen also being happy because she things her husband had a promotion , after that he gets defeated by the omnidroid again and gets tortured physically and psychologically .
And yeah wherever you like it or not the girlboss treatment IS a thing , every era has many cliches and the girlboss is just one of them , and just like any cliches , its bound to get old and directors using it without developing it .
I hate how these sequels just take the roughest, barest sketch of characterization and think they can rebuild every success of the original.
They could have... But they didn't. They folded.
This is because this movie was made because someone wanted money
There doesnt seem to be a message or truth the movie needed to say
Many Dreamworks sequels were made for art. Incredibles 2 was made for money.
A stark contrast to Shrek 2, which was arguably better than the first
@@mgp1203 It was definitely better, even though not by much.
The second I heard her name was Evelyn Dever, I chuckled to myself and said "Heh, evil endeavor". The fact that her name also sounds like "a villain" eluded me.
This movie was such a disappointment. The original Incredibles is my favorite Pixar movie, and this... Gosh, this movie makes me sad for what could and should have been.
Dumb moment on my part, the fact that Evelyn Dever's name is meant to be a Phoenix Wright level bad pun on "evil endeavor" completely escaped me... and the reason it did was because when I first watched the movie, the literal first second the camera focused on her barging in through the door, late for the meeting, my EXACT thought was: "She's the twist villain." So the entire movie, I was just waiting with increasing impatience for the "twist" to finally be revealed. I felt a little insulted that the film thought it could fool me the way it tried.
That's what gave it away to me too. I was like 👀 ok movie I see you.
@@DaMaster012 but like her name shows up before the villain is introduced gang????
but like her name shows up before the villain is introduced gang????
@@jay1646they still set up so many behaviors and mindsets and clearly showed the audience what they were to the point it was obviously her
I never realized how Helen was SCREAMING out their actual names in public during the Underminer fight omg. Anybody could’ve heard that, and many probably did, and put two and two together. That could’ve been a good time to see what their actual hero names would’ve been too! Maybe Helen starts saying “Vi-“ and then remembers she has to use their hero names to protect them.
Wait, do Dash and VI have super hero names? I can't remember if they ever gave themselves names. 😅😅😅
@@BrightWulph It’s unclear if they have, but still, shouting out their real names when the only main difference between their usual look is a mask would make it pretty easy to identify who they are
@@BrightWulph
I don't think so. If you had to come up with superhero names for them, what would they be? I was thinking either Trailblazer or Outpace for Dash, and either Unseen or Elusive for Violet.
Didn't she do that in the first film as well? It's been a while, but I remember the Omnidroid smashing through Violet's forcefield and was about to crush them and Helen was panicking and screaming their names before Bob jumped in to save them.
In her defense, I imagine it's instinct to panic when you're a parent and it looks like your kids are about to die.
@@utopian4769 Personally, for Dash, I'd go with "Sir Speedo" since that's similar the nickname Frozone gave him in the first film, follows the same naming conventions has his dad's name "Mr. Incredible" (Polite moniker + Cool sounding word), and it sounds like something Dash would come up with himself. For Violet, her name is derived from "ultraviolet", so her name could be "Ultra Girl", which would also sound similar to her mom's name "ElastiGirl" (Word relating to powers + Girl).
Man I hadnt even realised in the aeroplane scene Bob was sobbing in the background, because Ive always watched it in a sort of open air screening at noisy places. That's really heartbreaking... the second movie really lacked that depth
literally said this when i walked out of theaters. "They just undid all of incredibles 1 character development and family understanding." They were bumping heads in the beginning and got a sense of understanding and bonding of being superheros and they undid all that in 2.
Helen's literally first line in the movie: "Wait, should we be doing this? It [hero work] is still illegal!"
She said, after the ending of the first movie showed that she had put her mask on ever before her husband.
_And it only got worse from there._
Even after many rewatches of this movie, I still have absolutely no idea how that little girl got that sign. Why did they make a little girl with the sign?! It makes literally no sense! Did Evelyn brainwash someone, have them walk up to this little girl and get her to hold this sign? Where are this girl's parents??
I assumed her mom was the only moderate anti-super person in the movie and told her daughter to hold that sign.
I mean, I just assumed that the parents gave her a sign to hold.
You know, the same way we have children holding signs endorsing outright bigotry(in modern times usually against LGBT+ people, most frequently seen with extreme religious influences) but have zero idea why they are there(if they can even read yet) when asked.
People love forcing children to advocate for an extreme position before they can even comprehend the position for some reason.
The girl is Helen from the past, they just cut out the time travel subplot
If you look at the crowd at 47:12, there's a lady standing next to the little girl, smiling at Helen with everyone else. Right before the girl turns her sign around, she glanced at the lady shyly, the way little kids do when looking for a parent for reassurance before interacting with a stranger. And the lady smiles encouragingly and nods. The lady doesn't even look slightly vindictive or anything, though. More like she's encouraging the girl to do something that will have a nice outcome, her expression reads like, "Go on, don't be shy, you can be nice to the Super lady." She doesn't look at all like she deliberately gave the girl an unsettling sign. So even that theory that some parent gave it to her doesn't seem to make much sense. I guess she could have misled the kid about it but it’s still confusing when the rest of the movie is extremely unsubtle.
honestly it's more believable to me that they just forgot to change the sign's text before the movie came out and just never updated it. cause it literally makes NO sense lmao!
One was made by Pixar, the other was made by Disney. That’s all ya gotta say.
Is that treu the first one is for the whole family the second for kids
@@josh44026 one was because someone wanted to tell a good story. The other one was because many saw the numbers flying around their heads with how much money they could make if they slapped Incredibles infront of it. Nostalgia is one of the biggest money makers in film nowadays. Unfortunately.
What does this even mean? Is this the whole 'duurrr disney agenda' thing? Because Pixar made this movie AND other 'woke' movies like Lightyear and Toy Story 4. That's of course ignoring the fact that worldwide Disney censors, cuts out and silences LGBT voices for money. But sure, buddy, disney totally wanted an agenda for this movie. Couldn't just be Brad Bird's own views on society or anything.
Ohhhhh that bit about Helen's conflict possibly being from the fear of missing out on her kids' lives if she takes the risk is SO good. Like, it could have reached the Pixar cry level if there was a moment where she was losing in the climax and imagined what would happen to her family without her, and she either finds her resolve to keep fighting and win, for her family; or she asks them for help and find strength together (which fits the theme of the movies a bit more, though it might still sound too similar to the first one)
It feels like they just wanted to retell the first movie but worse.
💯
Basically they was like let's copy and paste and realized too many people seen that movie so they switched roles lol
@@milkshake285 Bird said he was open to an idea of a sequel to The Incredibles, but only if it could be better than the original. He stated, "I have pieces that I think are good, but I don't have them all together.
That explains everything.
@@orangeslash1667And the studio switching the deadlines probably didn't help...
@@Madjichen indeed
No matter how much I try, I can’t for the life of me imagine SYNDROME being in the same universe as this movie, and that’s really bad
its different tones for a different time. that was a good versus evil story and now it's not. plus like they were trying to go for the more recent dark age of comics plus it obviously had elements of Watchmen's dark reality of her work
I thought those extra supers looked lazily cobbled together; and the owl guy, good luck hiding that ANIMAL QUIRK
Incredibles 2 starts off like right where Incredibles one ended, but is clearly not the same world.
Most of the characters clearly have not gone through the first movie.
It's just kinda sad.
It would have been so much more interesting to have the movie deal with the fact that she hasn’t actually had a public facing job in years and that things have changed. They also could have looked at the difference between a vigilante vs a hero. To be a hero you have to work with the law and it’s implied in the first movie that she had a job that was with the government.
vigilante method versus government sanctioned method would have been way more interested than Bird whining about iphone usage without committing to it
I was disappointed in this movie for the same reasons. Finding out that there wasn't a clear idea behind the scenes makes a lot of sense and is indicative of Disney demanding sequels for that sweet franchise money. It was the same with Frozen 2 and so many others. It's really sad that Disney seems happy with mediocrity these days as long as they make a profit. It's been a pretty tragic downfall to witness.
Great review. Well worth the effort it took to get it out.
Holy Crap a 3 hour video about a movie I hate from a creator I just found! Sign me up well done!
Evelyn’s motivation is so baseless honestly. She blames heroes for not saving her parents… ignoring the fact that supers were illegal BEFORE her parents died. Her dad was just an idiot who for some reason assumed someone would answer the phone, knowing they wouldn’t.
She resents her parents for not saving themselves within their own capacity to do so. She blames her dad for fantasizing being a "damsel-in-distress" so strongly that she had to grow up an orphan for it.
@@jonathanschubert9052 True, but she shouldn't blame superheros as a whole for that. It's not as if superheros were telling people to rely on superheros _only_ . It was her dad's own fault, but I understand needing something to blame in her grief. It's a pretty good motive, it just could've been executed better. imo.
@@superemoboi2050 "it just could have been executed better" should be the movies entire tagline, imo 😜
I wish they'd fleshed evelyns villian story and tied it into the first movie like if SHE was the one who gave syndrome the idea to create the robots to get rid of all superheroes. And she KNEW about who incredibles were and since syndrome failed she decided to encourage her brother to campaign for making supers legal again to bring them and the rest out of hiding. Making her hate for them more threatening.
@@biaswrecker987 When I first saw the movie, one of the first things I said when leaving the theater was that this should've been a prequel set during--or just before--the legal process of getting rid of the super heroes. It would have made Evelyn's motivation fit a lot more. Then they could have her tie into Syndrome as well.
That’s wild this movie came out 6 years ago
no it didn't shut up 😭
@@evalv2284 It was released in 2018, so yes, it actually was 6 years ago.
I feel old
@@veronicageorge3825they know, they were trying to say they don’t believe it because it probably doesn’t feel that old
I know bro I can fucking remember my mom taking me to see this shit now I’m old enough to buy alcohol
This movie feels more like Incredibles Lite than Incredibles 2.
Best description of this movie I've ever heard.
@@Scoped21 Bird said he was open to an idea of a sequel to The Incredibles, but only if it could be better than the original. He stated, "I have pieces that I think are good, but I don't have them all together.
That explains everything.
Rise of the Underminer felt more like Incredibles 2 than this garbage.
The Incredibles 2 is to The Incredibles what The Force Awakens is to Star Wars; completely undermines all the accomplishments and characters arcs of the original, even going as far as to character assassinate the protagonists, just to set everything back to square one so the sequel can do a worse-in-every-way rehash of the first film's plot.
Wasn't there an original script that was better than what we got?
I wish they'd used one of the dead supers from the first movie back to be a villain instead of "erm my daddy died now i hate supers" lady
There was one, I forget his name, who was one of the super featured in the interview tapes on the bonus disc who had megalomaniacal tendencies and saw supers as a superior race. Imagine he just barely escapes the island with his life, brutally scarred physically and mentally. Him being forced underground and being made illegal by society, then lured to remote island to be slaughtered alongside many of his fellow super by a non-super would be an EXTREMELY compelling villain origin story. And having a known super committing acts of evil would actually create a good reason for there to be tension and difficulty in reverting the laws that made supers illegal
Damn that would be great.
If I remember correctly his name was Gamma Jack? Or something like that
Yooo that would have been legitimately fantastic. Plus it would have been an excellent opportunity to talk about why eugenics and the concept of one race being "genetically superior" are wrong and dangerous mindsets, which is unfortunately very topical again nowadays :(
I love Gamma Jack's interview so your plot seems suitable with his character!
Wow, this is so cool! I'd love to see this. And there is no way to say that there aren't other supers who were "terminated" that are still alive. If Bob could make it out, I'm sure there's another that could as well.
You're right, Evelyn as an Elastagirl fangirl might actually have tied the movie's theme together a bit more.
I can remember way back in 2014 when Incredibles 2 was announced, all the theories of what the movie would be about. I can still remember the most common one: Incredibles 2 would feature Jack Jack as a teenager or young adult dealing with the idea of being seen as a "weirdo" and being outcast in a world of people with super powers, all due to his MULTIPLE super powers. Perhaps he would develop some sort of god complex due to being "better" and stronger than all the other supers, and he would become the movies anti-hero. Perhaps he would even turn out just like Syndrome. Jaded with the world for their treatment of him but still wanting to help people in his own way.
Instead we got a movie that is SUPPOSED to take place moments after the end of the first movie yet acts like it takes place months or even years after the fact.
And honestly since it took them a decade to make the second one, who the hell even remembers how the first one ended
Taking place immediately after the first was indeed Brad Bird's vision, he didn't want to have to figure out how to deal with Violet and Dash being adults, and he also wanted to keep baby Jack Jack.
@@jbear3478 Literally anyone that really liked the movie and watched it more than once.
Incredibles 2 isn't canon.
Agreed!
@@rod4309 Bird said he was open to an idea of a sequel to The Incredibles, but only if it could be better than the original. He stated, "I have pieces that I think are good, but I don't have them all together.
That explains everything.
@@orangeslash1667 yeah Disney fucked him over badly by pushing it forward a year when it definitely needed the extra time
@@Nebulasecura It doesn't help that the actors playing the characters apologies to the audiences before the movie starts, for the film taking a while to get made.
It makes you question, was Bird pressured by the fans to make this?????
@@orangeslash1667 Disney pushed incredibles 2 forward a year while toy story 4 got that extra year of development. Whether Disney did it because of fan pressure remains uncertain, but damn was that a hella mistake on Disney's part because this movie does feel half baked.
only started the video, but…
In my opinion, there’s a reason that Brad Bird never felt like coming back for a sequel until he needed a win after TOMORROWLAND flopping so hard
I never needed a sequel to THE INCREDIBLES. Bird designed the first movie and it’s characters for a specific purpose, and that film was a complete statement.
Of course going back to the well resulted in something redundant
I enjoyed the sequel for the aesthetics upgrade and some setpieces, but I came out of it remembering very little about the story due to the obligatory finale
I think their could be done a lot with the incredible it need a unique good original script for the sequels
this is the first critique of the movie ive seen that i feel really goes to the heart of the problem. ive seen so many reviews that have the same conclusion but i found their arguments weak. i feel at peace knowing someone was able to voice an opinion similar to mine but with much more clarity and articulation than i ever could
Thank you
Incredibles 2 is an example of Pixar's desperation to stay afloat in my opinion. Most Pixar films are meant to be contained in one story. Continuing said story not because it could benefit from one but just for a quick buck is very telling of the company that makes said sequel. This movie was a completely unnecessary cash grab that dumps on the characters, story, and world we know and love.
The thing is...I think it's very doable to create a sequel for the incredibles that doesn't destroy the previous characters and story, but they failed horribly at doing so. It's as if they have no idea what made their older movies so great in the first place.
but like they add on to all the same themes from the first one and add missing things that were left out of the first, yeah it was a cash grab but it got your cash and a cash grab can be good quality
The fact that the second movie hates on Bob/Mr. Incredible angers me so much because he is my favorite character. That is one of the biggest reasons I absolutely HATE the second film.
I actually don’t feel like the movie hated on Bob at all. I think they paid attention to his character and him working out how to be a stay at home day when he desires to go fighting crime. I think the movie wanted it to be focused on Helen and her being the one to bring superheros back but they spent a lot of time making her look good forgetting all about her actual character
i love this movie😂
i just wanna say THANK YOU so much for making this video. i honestly consider this movie one of pixar’s weakest. i’ve had a very big disdain for the lack of character and story progression in this film that other animated sequels excel at, yet don’t get the credit they deserve cause they’re not pixar. i feel like this movie’s public reception rides hard on the coattails of its predecessor and its studio. it is so great to see a long critique on this movie written by someone who actually understands what makes a screenplay work or not, and someone who isn’t afraid to acknowledge when a lesser movie like this one is able to get some things right as well! a lot of longer video essays critiquing films tend to just be written by people who go in full throttle in a bad way, viewing nitpicks on the same level as genuine flaws. leaving their critiques feeling very shallow, vapid, and biased. this video is different, it’s nuanced! i really appreciate the maturity you have on display here! i hope you consider doing more essays on films like this in the future. especially animated ones. cause let me tell you, as an animation fan, there aren’t very many video makers who are able to treat them with the same amount of maturity as you put on display here. great stuff, subscribed.
Thank you for this feedback, UncleFlutus.
@@aemovieguyreviews Bird said he was open to an idea of a sequel to The Incredibles, but only if it could be better than the original. He stated, "I have pieces that I think are good, but I don't have them all together.
That explains everything.
I already had a lot of problems with Incredibles 2, but man this video really drove a lot of stuff home that I never even put together myself. It's just so disappointing.
I really appreciated the vibe of the video though. It was calm and reasonable, and it made sure to point out what _was_ there.
I'm confident that if the film got a proper amount of time, we might've actually ended up with a great movie overall. There were so many moments in this video where alternate scenes or little line changes add SO MUCH.
The movie we got felt barebones, despite all of the overlapping plots and ideas. But we can at least see that there were skeletons that could've been fleshed out.
Imagine how much more interesting it would be if Winston ended up being a villain too... And Evelyn didn't realize it. So he'd basically be playing 4D chess behind Evelyn's back, in the middle of her evil plan, in order to further some selfish goal or something (idk what his motivation would be though). If executed well, that would have been a really cool twist... Certainly better than the "twist" of just Evelyn being evil. They BOTH should have been villains with different ideals.
He could have been so desperate in his drive to campagain the re-legalisation of superheros so he had someone to scheme against, because global politicians "think too small" or are too "petty, to be worthy advasaries" or something. So in making superhero legal again he can loophole into making supervillians legal again as well.
That way the writers hinting that Evelyn could be "redeemed" could have some "weight" because now she has/wants to stop or get even with her brother who is now a global supervillian, who knows a lot of how superheros like Mr. Incredible, Frozone and Elastagirl work and think, which could open the door for future hero's like Violet, Dash, Void, Brick etc to step up and be the dark horses or something.
Just spitballing ideas.
One way they could have done it is have Winston actively funding screen saver to become a Villain without realizing its his sister.
too predictable gang too predictable the villain wasn't perfect but tbh not every type of villain would have fit
Picture this, the underminer attacks and unfortunately supers are still illegal but things are under way to change that. The underminer attacks and Helen points out that the law hasn't changed yet and Bob wants to make supers look good here. During the attack the underminer gets away in his giant drill with the bank money, also Bob saves Mr. Devor from dying and while he wasn't acting for supers before have things have changed now and he speaks of his fathers live for supers and the law actually stopped a super from saving him from specifically a super villain, as in regular cops can't help. Maybe Evelynn is working with the underminer or something idk.
Really good idea. By having the underminer get a bigger impact on the story makes his battle in the beginning even more relevant.
@@Pinkyorangegirl True, and if Evelynn was working in some way with him then it would tie the two movies a lot better, because then she didn't just come out of nowhere, she would be implied to already be a threat ever since the first movie and, though we never saw her, we would get a better feeling that the world is alive and stuff are happening behind the scenes
@@d_fnanda It makes so much sense. How could random people on the internet come up with better stories than a multi-millon company
@@PinkyorangegirlI DISAGREE STRONGLY! ☝️☝️
No but seriously. I think the Underminer could have been left out of the film entirely. People seriously overhyped what was effectively a joke villain who was only there at the end of the first film to remind the audience that there are still bad people out there, and therefore supers coming back and the Incredibles uniting under a single purpose are objectively good things. I knew going into the second film that there wouldn't be a timeskip, but the fact that they started off RIGHT where the last one ended was a little cringeworthy. And I can't help but think that part of the reason for this was that the filmmakers wanted to please the fans by finally showing the "epic confrontation" between the Incredibles and the Underminer, something that, at least to me, was obviously not the point of his inclusion in the first film.
@@nathancollins1715 If he was a joke they could've left him out entirely, but because he declared war on peace and happiness they had something going for him. The second film reconed that and made him into a joke.
Omg I just realized this film perfectly had set up Violet and Dash sneaking out of the house under Bob's watch to do some vigilante stuff like Bob used to and they blew it!!!
Yknow Bob would have joined in with them too or maybe even go against his own wishes after seeing one of them, most likely Dash, Get slightly injured and put an end to it and maybe even have him switch his stance on being Super Heroes along with Helen switching hers. Ughhhh!!!
Plus we could have seen if Dash's Super speed also gives him speedy Healing too 😫😫😫
Underminer: declares war on peace and happiness, robs bank, leaves, refuses to elaborate. Like, what?
Like his name, but what's he gonna use the money for? What's with announcing and not stealthing it more until he gets to the bank? I wanted that to be the rest of the movie.
Oh my god I never thought about this. That's such a massive plot hole
They wanted a generic, forgettable villain to set up the opening scene. The thought process was as simple as: he villain. villains rob banks.
If they can't be bothered to make the main villain coherant, why would they do anything but the bare minimum for the Underminer?
@@coletrainhetricknot what a plot hole is, its just an underexplored disposable character. He didnt stay long enought to contradict himself.
@leandrocastello309 it is and I ain't gonna argue with a moron who doesn't realize it. You do t have a debate but keep whining of if you feel like it
it's a superhero trope, you know superheroes, like the ones in the movie like the ones for teens and young kids. like idk the remark in incredible one that they love to monologue and have big egos
Jack Jack should have been used a metaphor for raising a child with special needs.
Bob should have learned that his children need 'Bob' they dont need Mr Incredible (he just needs to show up and do his best to be a good Dad).
He was always a good dad
@@tankbeast8480 in the first one, he wasnt present for his kids, then he learnt he needed to be. The sequel should have shown that while he's now present in their lives, he doesnt have to have all the answers or be perfect, sometimes just showing up and showing you care is enough.
Idk
@@pepperpeterpiperpickled9805 he has been showing up and he was showing up in the first one, the first one is about him still trying to catch his glory days. He was there for the kids just not as much as YOU like. But you don’t determine the standard for fathers no one does, so yes he was there in the home etc just not as much as YOU like.
@@tankbeast8480 no he wasnt present the life of his family. we see him not paying attention to his family during dinner then later he says 'my family is the biggest adventure and i almost missed it' or something similar
This movie is linked to one of the best and most disappointing memories I’ve ever had- bittersweet in many ways.
I was invited by a relative who had connections at Pixar to come see the incredibles 2 at an early, invite-only private showing at Pixar studios in California. It was a dream come true for an animation geek and artist like me, and the tour I got before was eye opening. It was just too bad the film itself was so, so disappointing. I still look back with fondness on that day, but I think it was the moment some of the shine wore off Pixar and it really dawned on me that even gods can bleed.
More like be corrupted from within. Honestly this film was the beginning of Pixar valuing the message over story. It was subtle here, but not so subtle as to be hidden.
Look at half the new supers designs. Very stereotypical LGBT activist(twitter activist) aesthetics. Especially the green haired rainbow suit wearing super. That was was too absurd for me to take seriously. Had to have been someone's self insert to a degree.
Also, EVERY female in the original had strictly feminine features. So uh, might wanna watch it again.
The fact you even admitted it was Queer Coded proves my point.
@@CommanderRedEXE Jesus Christ dude, your hatred goes so fucking crazy.
@@CommanderRedEXEyour conspiracy theory does not even make sense. Those side super characters arent what makes 2's story fundamentally flawed. They could have been designed to be visually consistant and it wouldnt change that theyre just props with no development.
@George-zj9rr No, but look at the background supers again. You have a lesbian stand in, transwoman stand in, so on.
My point was "Woke" feminist messaging took precedent over good quality writing as they chose to deliberately push "The Message", their agenda.
@@CommanderRedEXE a) without proper art direction to reign things in the designs will not be cohesive or mesh with those of the first movie. that's the issue here, there's nothing about the art style of the original which says you can't have a woman without androgynous features or whatever it is that tipped you off about some background character. it's the execution that's problematic, the rest is your mental illness because b) what propaganda is there? that superheroes and people in general are diverse? horrific. that does not impact the writing at all. they might have pushed for an idealized girlboss elastigirl yes, but that's a different thing and has nothing to do with bad or queer-coded character designs in the background. that's the artists, not the writers
Dude the first movie came out the year that I was BORN. And I have watched it growing up. I am 19 now and Is STILL in my top 10 favorite movies of all time. I was SO hyped when I heard it was going to have a 2⁰ one. And then when it came out... I liked it? But never stuck out to me like the first to the point I FORGOT that existed. Such a major let down. I just found your channel now. And I can't WAIT to see your take on this movie
The way you said “Nooo, your daddy was *stupid.*” made me laugh, that caught me off guard!
Why did they make all the other new superheroes look so....weird in this movie. Everyone in the incredibles are stylized, but the new supers here go beyond stylization and seem to be purposefully ugly. very strange.
I thought the exact same thing, the base models that they used for superheroes in the first incredibles were you to put them in civilian clothing would fit right into the world of the incredibles and I think that was the point which is brilliant, whereas these wannabe vigilantes in the second seem like caricatures and do not fit into the world of the incredibles and would look so out of place if you placed them in civilian clothing, they'd stick out like a sore thumb.
1:05:55 why didnt he put the super hero phone in the safe room that way he couldve stayed safe and stil have the heroes come to help
I said the exact same thing! 😂
Especially since it's a landline and the "there's no reception" excuse wouldn't work
Bro's braindead
Cockiness maybe, or probably because he thought he never thought he’d use the phone for emergencies and only for funsies?
No the excuse makes this scene dumb af 😂😂
This was brutal and precise. It's insane to me that they took this long a gap between movie and had *NOTHING* better prepared. It's craaayzy.
The long gap was taken because Brad struggled with an idea for a sequel, this was what he ultimately came up.
Ugh and they couldve done so many interesting things with the family grappling with their changing roles as supers become legal again. Bob and Helen trying to relive the glory days, but realizing that its not the same now that theyre older and have kids to protect. Violet and Dash dealing with taking on the responsibility and attention of being super, etc...
I love this idea! Exactly they would start by trying to relive the glory days with big events and saving tons of people, but then they're both missing some big achievements, as they start to reprioritize, they realize they don't even want to be out there supering all the time, they'd rather be there to foster and mentor their children into becoming the best they can. But this shift away from supering after it's legal again, ends up brewing the conflict in which the kids must save the parents, which they all learn to be who they are, not put too much into either supering or family but to let it all come as it comes, as long as they do it together.
I’m not far into the video but I hope you bring up how Frozone saves the day for the first crisis, saves the kids from the mind control, and saves everyone on the yacht… but NEVER gets the credit.
I love this breakdown -- and honestly when y ou were talking about the kids having perfect powers for beating Screenslaver, my mind couldn't help but get trapped in how NARATIVELY PERFECT THAT IS when Evelyn was being so condescending towards kids and family. It's like.. how did they not use that? (Granted, you've got 3 hours of "WHY DID THEY NOT USE THAT?!" so yeah, haha) Great vid, man!
Thank you
damn man, that line about stay at home mothers and fathers being heroic and balanced hit hard. amidst all the dialogue i see nowadays from men and women becoming increasingly hostile to each other, it would have been so refreshing to see a story where both are treated as heroes, as equals, working together. now that really would have been a worthy successor to one of my favorite animated films.
I've always wanted more long form videos like this but I often end up feeling really bored by them. This consistently makes great points, and I think you've made a real effort to understand this movie and why it is the way it is. Feel free to cook again 🔥
Thank you
thank god someone finally speaks up about how disappointing incredibles 2 really is it isn’t a bad film but it still lacks the suspense, emotion, and character growth the first film had. tbh, the second movie was very bland 😢
Babe, wake up! Some random UA-camr made a rant of a movie I hate that's almost 3 times the length of the movie! I _have_ to watch all of it!
Holy hell, I thought this would've had like 120K likes
Thank you. Hey, maybe the video will grow some legs later.
@@aemovieguyreviewsI’ve got faith it will. It’s a great video so far
What an oddly specific number.
Well to be fair, it's too long for most people, and a few years after the hype of the movie
@@aemovieguyreviewsIt will become, Incredible.
There seems to be a noticeable stigmatism towards being "motherly" in modern movies and media. As if being a mother is somehow a bad thing. Even in the live action Avatar: The Last Airbender remake, they removed all of Katara's motherly traits. Its like they're afraid to show women doing one of the most noble things a human can do... Being a mother.
I mean.. how about the OTHER Avatar movie with a strong motherly figure that came out relatively recently? Or the fact that Helen is motherly in this movie? Like.. what?
On the other hand, an overcorrection is natural(though not correct) when there is a very insistant section of society that keeps shouting
"WOMEN CAN ONLY BE MOTHERS AND NOTHING ELSE. WOMANHOOD IS DEFINED BY YOUR ABILITY TO HAVE BABIES, AND THAT IS YOUR ONLY USE"
You know, the kind of people who set up booths at MAGA rallies insisting on socially enforcing Tradwives and arguing against women being allowed to be involved in politics(the one I'm thinking of was run by women, so thats hypocritical), or how conservative media like Ladyballers(which the director originally intended on it being a documentary, but found no sports league would allow trans women to compete without a year+ on HRT, and they couldn't find any men willing to go on HRT just to compete. So instead of accepting their premis was flawed, instead shifted gears to a "comedy") had a heartwarming scene where a father tells his daughter that she will never be as good as a man, but at least she can have babies.
Hell, I've seen children's books express the same sentiment. Little boys can run and play sports and all these things... but little girls can have babies, isn't it great how God made everyone good at different things?
Media looking down upon being a stay at home parent is an issue, but its not the only weird attitude towards women and motherhood in media.
Right?! And that would be OK, except they made it Elastigirls whole personality to be a family woman.
Tbf they didn't even let Katara have any emotions. She's not allowed to be angry and or sassy she's a shell of herself and none of her traits are shown. Same with Aang honestly.
@@bobtheball5384 Yeah... Most of the characters aren't characterized properly. Even Sokka (who has the least egregious characterization) is a shell of his former self.
I do find it funny that at the end you reveal the review is about 4 years late and you had to stitch it all together, given some of the final talks about how Disney likely pressured with deadlines. It's just a funny small thing.
This is a great review/opinion piece. I really enjoyed your ideas for how to re-write parts, as a casual writer myself I think all the changes you talked about are all changes that would make a great story, *especially* the part about Evelyn's backstory, honestly you gave me a very amusing idea of if the story was swapped around a bit, just a little bit, they could have made a great reference to the first movie I'd have appreciated.
Something like, Helen is tied up not in a place where she can't use her power, and while Evelyn explains her backstory, Helen is moving a hand to a computer to send say, the location she's at to Bob for him to come save her, and as Evelyn is finishing, she notices, stops her last sentence and tases the hand again like she was during the Screen Slaver fight, and Helen just goes through the pain "Heh... I caught you monologuing" before Evelyn just turns on the mind control very annoyed. Then the rest of the movie can continue like normal except instead of Bob getting called somewhere by Evelyn as a setup she takes the opportunity and sets up how she gets Bob. Same end result where they both get captured, but adds a fun chance for a backstory scene to be a bit more dynamic than just a flashback.
Anyway, very good job on the whole project, listened from beginning to end in one sitting.
The only writer credited is the director Brad Bird. I feel like if he had some collaboration with women on this he might have made Helen’s character as well rounded as Bob’s.
Bc as women, most of us relate to the super common, never ending guilt that comes with balancing being your own person and being a caretaker of your family (any members not just kids) like we’re socialized to be. I feel like women in the writing room would have helped flesh out this relatable nuance in Helen’s character, especially since this movie focuses on her more than the last one.
p.s. I’m only 30 minutes in so for all i know you say all of this later haha
When Incredibles 2 released on Blu-ray, Pixar actually included a behinds-the-scenes video about their employees, who struggled with juggling parenthood & an animation career:
ua-cam.com/video/M8GqcJIDI2I/v-deo.html
what was the problem with helen?
I'm in awe of how people like you can analyze stuff so well
"I'm not trying to be mean spirited"
"He's a woman? Like biologically?"
Personally, I thought Voyd was supposed to be a trans girl. Missed opportunity for her to be a full character. And I wish the new characters looked more stylistically close to the original characters. The movie felt shallow and just didn't hold up to the first one. Evelyn being the "twist villain" was too obvious.
Ok, I have something to say about Violet taking care of Jack Jack or whatever.
Sometimes I have to watch my baby brother and I’m pretty much the same age as her, I know she is a super ‘n all but still.
I have to watch my baby brother sometimes and it honestly hurts me mentally, I get too overwhelmed and I’m not patient enough for it which leads me to feel guilty that I may not be doing enough or that I’m too mean. And if my 5 year old non-super brother can overwhelm me to the point of almost having a breakdown, how could Jack Jack, a full super baby with many powers, not overwhelm Violet and hurt her to?
My aunt says kids my age shouldn’t be looking after little kids like this, she would know. She HAD to when she was little.
I’m just saying I don’t agree with the Violet taking up the responsibility of babysitting JackJack and I understand that a normal human babysitter wouldn’t work either. This is just something I personally don’t agree, I like everything else in the video. Keep up the good work ❤️ 👍
Violet needs to live a teen life, not a teen mom life
I’ve seen a TON of video essays and this is one on the best!!! It’s insanely in depth and I love how you always follow your critiques with creative solutions. Anyone can say something is bad but it takes an artist to observe what works, what can be improved, and how it’ll come together. Seriously fan freaking tastic job on this video!
Thank you
What an amazing break down. I'd love to see more in-depth movie opinion videos like this- and maybe make it your channel's thing because seriously, your quality is impeccable and people WILL stick.
I hate how modern Hollywood dont know what makes a mother strong.
Kicking ass is good and all, but Hellen is a mother, and a pretty hekking good one at that.
The movie would be so much better if the family was together for the majority of the film, would also help if they had a time skip. Remember, the first came out a decade ago, Jack Jack would be the age of Dash, and Violet would be in her late 20's if they had a 1 to 1 time skip. At least fast forward a few years or so.
The intent honestly seems like they simply wanted to push the false idea than men cannot handle being stay at home or running a household, while also pushing the typical female empowerment story we've come to expect from most Disney/Pixar films.
Hollywood really has gone to heck in a handbasket...
@@CommanderRedEXE hekk?
@@CommanderRedEXEThis is why Bob becomes a better dad and Helen is defeated, of course.
@@voiceunderthecovers Bob is portrayed as barely being capable of keeping it together while helen's defeat is nothing compared of how mr incredible was defeated.
It always comes back to not knowing how to write women 💀😔
im about to go on a 4 hour walk to go make a payment and im gonna kill most of the time with this bad boy right here
“so simple, even he could do it” is actually a reference to REAL ads from around the time this movie is trying to emulate, they’d market easy to make food products like coffee and what have you as “so easy a man could do it” because it was usually the woman’s job to do that stuff and a lot of men didn’t even know how to make that stuff in the first place.
Except men invented the very thing that women use in the kitchen so it’s all a paradox in itself.
@@FrostyMts idk, I just know it was a marketing campaign 🤷♂️ plus I’m sure it’s not a surprise that a lot of people weren’t very smart back then especially when it came to advertising.
@@sethmccutcheon9296 It doesn't work because the misogynistic logic was that because men invented it it may be complicated for women but is not , here is just a reverse slogan without lore explaination , kind if like if i made a movie where space related stuff is nonexistent and i made a amongus reference.
@@FrostyMtsYeah, but it was effective for the average man because he DIDN'T invent that stuff, and therefore didn't know how to use it very well.
@@FrostyMts Exactly!
Such a good video. Truly. I'm really impressed with your level of explanation and analysis. You were able to put to words a lot of the qualms I had with the movie, like the "character assassination" of basically the entire Parr family. I was beyond sad to see how Bob was portrayed in this movie. Did the first movie arc not even happen?! How was he reduced to a caricature of only the egotistical part of himself?
The Incredibles 2 is basically the Incredibles but less good and with more saturated, detailed animation. This seems to be a common trend in movies, that they take the first movie's story beats and overlay the sequel on it. It becomes the same movie, but more diluted and tiresome. (Although many individual elements of the movie were solid, in the long run, the first film will make a greater cultural and societal impact)
It's such a shame the filmmakers weren't given more time to make this movie the masterpiece the original is. So many pieces were there, they just needed time (and perhaps less involvement from Disney as a whole). Again, awesome video and thanks for the incredible work you did to make it!!!
I do wonder what the quality of film would be if they were given that year of production. Because this movie has so much potential but ultimately squandered it. Although one good thing was the fact it wasn't outright a bad movie but just mediocre with good sprinkled in here and there.
They had a damn decade
This was such a well thought out review.
It really addressed a lot of things that I thought I was crazy for thinking, I'm so glad I'm not the only one.
As a stay at home mom, I was pretty bummed to watch as Helen just did not seem to care or be effected by going back into the working world. Heck, when we call a babysitter so my husband and I can have some much needed date time I feel twitchy for like the first half hour because my kids aren't with me.
My kids are all still very young (4, 2, 1), so I am never away from them pretty much the entire day.
I would loved to have seen her go through an adjustment period and maybe some well thought out conflict that could resolve in a way that gives hope to those of us who wonder how we're going to make the transition when our kids are older and don't need us as much anymore.
Additionally, I would really have liked to see the contrast between Evelyn and Helen be more thought out, it would have been a great way to rework in that barbeque scene from the first movie!
The concept of Superhero Family felt a bit lost on this film and it's such a shame!
The way Helen belittles Bob and doesn't react defensively when he's talked down about especially when he isn't around?
That honestly made me feel sick inside, I would never let anyone talk about my husband that way, it's just not right.
I would love to see more long form reviews like this one!
I dont see many recommendations to upvote but I'd like to see you talk about any movie you care about or from a franchise you love, think about a lot, or that you think has an interesting story behind its creation.
I enjoyed this one because it was thoughtful and it felt like you cared a lot about the movie and how it affected a property you seemed to really enjoy (Incredibles). I enjoyed the humor quite a bit with the stitching in of clips. And because I felt like it told a really nice story not only of why you have the opinion stated at the beginning but also the story of why the movie may have turned out this way with a lot of behind the scenes information and using the words of the cast and crew as direct evidence to help tell that story for you. I learned a lot while having a good time and importantly you have expanded my understanding and viewpoint on the film.
I'm a frequent longform movie and story analysis listener and this is top quality IMO. Didnt even realize this was a smaller channel until the end section. I expected 500k at least based on the content.
Cheers.
Thank you
These types of in-depth, long form videos are my jam
I'm only a few minutes into your video essay/review, but I just had to say I'm very relieved to see your unexpected return AEmovieguy. I discovered your channel back in December 2017; enamored by your valid & heartfelt criticisms toward THE LAST JEDI. I was upset that more people hadn't discovered your channel and assumed that you had given up and moved on to something else. Despite being subscribed to your channel for the past 6 years, I only received notification of this video 3 days after premiering. Regardless, it's so great to see you come back in a BIG way, and I hope we will be seeing more new reviews (be they long or short form) in the near future.
Thank you for staying subscribed all this time! We'll see where things go from here.
Just wanted to come back and add, on a more personal note--I really, *really* feel you on the struggles of being a creator, maintaining discipline and accepting criticism without losing your optimism and creativity is really hard. I've had those long dry spells myself as a writer, and even now I'm still a little scared that I'll just never "make it," or "be good enough." It was comforting to find out I wasn't alone, and encouraging to see you made such a great video even with all of that struggle. So, thanks for that, and I wish you all the luck in the world with your future (hopefully not evil) endeavors. 💖
I'm glad to hear that my story could help you feel less alone. I wish you well, too.
Helen saying that "if the law is unjust, there are laws to change them" is the stupidest thing they said in this movie. If the people truly in charge don't want change, change won't happen. The "law" doesn't apply when the people truly in charge have all the politicians in their pockets, how do you think Roe v Wade happened despite the vast majority of the country being against it? Reform doesn't work, Bob is right, you don't need the law to know what is right, revolution is the only good method for actual lasting change.
Can't entirely agree. REFORM can get you change. Revolution usually gets you massacres, wars, and dictatorships.
French Revolution: ended in Napoleon becoming first dictator then emperor of France.
Russian Revolution: ended in Communist dictatorship under first Lenin then Stalin.
Mexican Revolutions: depending on how long a time period you want to use, they tended to end in instability or dictatorship.
1848 Revolutions: Bizarre mixture of failure in much of Europe actually cementing the governments they meant to change and the successful creation of a French Second Republic that barely survived a decade.
The more you try to change in a revolution, the more things tend to break. Lasting change is created, but it's often not the change originally sought.
This video is amazing. The voiceover was a perfect balance of aggression and calmly stated opinions. Didn't feel like too much of a ramble, listened to the whole thing while editing, and it was one of the best sessions I've had in a while. Seriously, stellar job!
Thank you for the feedback. Glad I could help you with your editing!
This video is unironically one of my favorite videos on the platform. The humor is like I'm joking around with my buddies. Keep up the good work man!
1:08:53 “But instead, the lack of opposition is boring, and that’s why we need more AcTiOn AnD JaCk JaCk! Whoohoo!”
I found this quote really funny.
Here before this blows the hell up
70 Likes 😊 I wonder how many it'll have soon!
This is definitely gonna do numbers!
🙋🏼
Overestimating peoples' short attention span.
It's not a bomb, dummy.
What I don’t understand is why the sequel HAD to start with the Underminer fight? I never saw it as a cliffhanger. I saw it as, like you said, they’re back. The second movie should’ve started completely different
Yeah, I think a lot of the "character regression" problems would feel less offensive if it was a few years later - Slipping back into old habits because change is hard, instead of just people switching who they are basically instantly, in-universe.
I thought it was a neat idea to pick up where they left off when I first heard that was the direction they chose, and maybe it could work if they told a different story with different characterization, but for what they put on screen that really hurt the movie a lot.
@@ryanhodin5014 Bird didn't wanna do a time jump, he wanted to pick up right where the first left off. He wanted to keep the kids as kids, especially Jack Jack.
@@billybarnett9518 Totally understandable. I thought it was neat too, and I still think it could have worked... If they had invested a LOT more in making the characters and setting fit well with the end of the first movie, or at least provided a smooth transition.
If they didn't want to do that, which evidently they didn't based on the movie we got, they needed to move the setting to give time for us to imagine it happened in before we picked the movie back up.
@@ryanhodin5014 They had Gazerbeam's memorial service that would've tied the two movies together nicely, but that was left on the cutting room floor.
love the editing in this video. makes the context really coherent to understand with the actual clips being played next to their discussion. the use of the dialogue clips as a part of the script was also really cute. every clip used as b-roll also seems to totally make sense and few clips are overused for such a long video, which is easy to take for granted until you understand how many videos arent at all good at this. perfect example of simple yet great video editing
Thank you for the feedback. I appreciate it when videos provide examples & context, and I tried to incorporate that into this video.
Thank you for fighting through to get us this behemoth of a review. Welcome back, we're proud of you whether you take three weeks or three years to get us that next one
Thank you
Something I find so frustrating in recent shows and movies as a woman, is when women are propped up so high, while men are beaten down repeatedly and have jokes made of them. It's not empowering, it's frustrating as all hell, and just makes me feel like there's more of a divide when we can't be seen as equals in media.
I remember watching the scene with Helen screaming in delight at her 'no causalities' bit over the phone with Bob in the cinema, and feeling so off about it. He repeatedly gets jokes made at his expense, and it never sat right with me. Idk, just upsetting really, felt unjustified and went against the entire development of the characters from the first movie.
Hearing all the solutions you proposed to fix Helen's story arc made me so sad they didn't realize any of that potential, you brought up amazing points. The biggest shame for me is the missed potential to empower those who chose to raise children as real superheroes, so close yet so far.
Loved your breakdown and criticisms, amazing video!
Mothers are called “superheroes” all the time and they are but they aren’t actually respected or really valued by society. The patriarchy only cares about their labor. Movies usually tell women that being a mother is the empowering and not for good reason but misogyny.
The thing I've always said is I think pointing the focus on Violet as the new generation could have worked better; have Helen be her guardian as she becomes a member of a teen (all girl) group ah la Sailor Moon or The Planeteers, the family is split and now Bob has to take up parenting half his kids while having to worry about Violet's safety from what he sees on the news, Helen becomes a mentor and idol to basically the same characters they already introduced in 2 but it feeds into her mothering nature, the two parents are now at odds because they're both struggling with what they think is best for them. It could make illusions to where progression of super hero tropes went, it could explain why Helen would maybe not push back against Evelyn's quips because she's trying to not trample her daughter's ambition, it could give conflict to Violet who's now frustrated between trying to keep her relationship that was just starting to form, it could hurt Dash for something that makes him feel left behind when he's more invested in heroism than his sister. Only half way through the video but its something that got reignited in me that I wish I had seen. Helen's switch up always felt like such a betrayl because to me, it can *come off* like Brad Bird superficially addresses feminist ideas through the lens of whoever his wife is at the moment rather than considering reasons a stay at home mother he doesn't know would make her choices.
Holy shit. This guy disappeared for 6 YEARS before coming back and dropping a 3-hour BANGER??? LIKE WHAAAAAAAAAA ⁉️⁉️⁉️⁉️
This was a fantastic watch! When I saw this movie with some friends, we left feeling rather unsatisfied and underwhelmed. This breakdown helped me understand why I had trouble enjoying it, and I loved the context of the behind the scenes info.
2:09:39 Another thing... WHY wouldn't Dicker tell Bob and Ellen that Jack Jack has powers? Did he just _assume_ they knew already??? Its his job to keep track of superhero protection for the government, so surely he would know who has powers and who doesn't, and think somethings up when Jack Jack has powers despite not being registered to have any? Or am I just insane for thinking that a government agency would have that level of organization?
This video is such an undiscovered gem rn
one thing i hated was that they totally changed the time period that the universe was set in, it was supposed to be a family from the 70s/80s and then out of nowhere they swap to 2020 for the sake of having modern tech
60s/70s, but close enough. Honestly, seeing how some of the new supers were blatantly LGBT stereotypes to some degree or other, that's likely the true reason it's set in modern time. LGBT wasn't really publicly accepted in the 60s/70s and so the new designs wouldn't work at all.
But that's to be expected given who does most of the writing in Hollywood, and what their ideologies tend to be, and how often the love putting them before the story these days.
@@CommanderRedEXEokay first of all, the movie is still set in the 50s, so no idea where either of you came up with that. Secondly, the LGBT characters you’re speaking of are barely even implied to be a metaphor for gay and trans people, and are never confirmed gay in the slightest. It’s you who believes that flashy colors and dyed hair is “gay”. Thirdly, Hollywood fucking hates gay people and has for years. Voice of Batman Kevin Conroy was called the f slur multiple times by Hollywood execs. Disney themselves censor gay characters and scenes for international markets because international markets want to KILL gay people. You are not a marginalized group. You’re punching down on people who have done nothing to you. Grow up.
@@CommanderRedEXE The LGBT stuff went over my head when watching this movie.
They did? What the hell? They made a retcon that bad?
They should’ve made it set in an alt world where cool tech was available in the 80s, it would’ve been a fun opportunity to use their imaginations
i always noticed bobs anger and jealousy as a kid and disliked him after this movie. Rewatching the first they rlly butchered his character and turned him into an incel lol
i guess both him and helen were just awfulll :(
Bob didn’t do shit
I met the person who made brick and some of the other heroes! She was just as passionate about Brick as she was in the behind the scenes with brick essentially being a self-insert. I could tell that they were passionate about designing a lot of the heroes while viewing the concept art she showcased, I wish they were more than just stage pieces for fights and background characters.
impressive continuous insertion of super relevant quotes for each claim you made, only so many can edit videos this tight-knit and take the time to put in the bloopers! I never not love UA-camr bloopers
Thank you
absolutely wonderful day for people with a hyperfixation on the Incredibles (me kinda)
I love these types of long form animation analysis videos, this one in particular was very good! Thanks for posting!
Thank you for watching
Omg that is SO funny you mention Winston being the Screenslaver instead of Evelyn, because a while back when I was talking to my sister about this movie I came up with that idea. Almost verbatim tho. what I had in mind was for both of them to come up with the Screenslaver persona for different reasons. Winston obviously wants to make supers legal again and be treated fairly, but Evelyn doesn't think people need supers and they actually hurt them in the long run due to dependency. So to prove a point she secretly sabotages the missions so they'd fail, but no one will get hurt. But not only does her sabotages backfire in a way that does put people in potential danger, they make it where ONLY supers can save them and make them look that much better. That way there is no true villain per se, not in people anyway. They'd be truly neutral on the morality scale. So the real villain will be either society or a corrupt system that average people either don't notice or question. Tho you raised a good point of making wear the costume so he'd be the face while Evelyn would be the tech part of it, much like their company.
Complete side tangent, it's very ironic and really sucks that the higher-ups at Pixar and/or Disney gave more time and attention to the sequel no one wanted or asked for with Toy Story 4 (because the previous movie not only felt like a conclusion, but was full intended to be one) all while forcing the filmmakers to rush out this sequel which is one that EVERYONE asked, begged, or even demanded for. And honestly had the most potential for, like this very video goes deeply into
Your idea of having both Winston and Evelyn be Screenslaver -- but for different reasons -- sounds pretty cool.
Yeah, that Toy Story 4 release date swap was brutal to learn about.
The only huge plothole in the first movie, was that the villains disappeared as well.... where were they when superheros were banned? You'd think they would band together