Kanban EV Review - Full Spoilers (for the film Christopher Robin)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 13 лип 2021
- WARNING: This video contains spoilers... for the film Christopher Robin.
Made possible by the support of our Patreon backers - / nopunincluded
#boardgames #review #kanban
Find us here:
Website - nopunincluded.com
Facebook - / nopunincluded
Twitter - Efka - / nopunincluded
Instagram - / nopunincluded
BGG Review list - boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/17... - Ігри
“Not that complicated” Guy is my nemesis. That was a great bit.
I see you too have a nemesis.
@@NoPunIncluded You're an inspiration.
got coerced into starting agra this way lol
Its not that complicated! ;)
As someone with ADHD who finds it almost impossibly tedious to get though lengthy and poorly written rulebooks I sat with Lisboa on my shelf unplayed for more than a year. Recently, in a sudden fit of clarity, I read through the rulebook and managed to get it to the table for two games. It's with the preceding context of finding most mid-weight game manuals difficult to parse that I was surprised to find Lisboa "not that complicated" thanks to so many mechanisms having thematic tie-ins. It's not that I find all games 'equally outmatched by my intellect' (/s), but Lisboa in particular was a simple to play, and much quicker than anticipated. I'm someone who found Wingspan fiddly and unintuitive at first. After that experience I can't wait to try more Lacerda designs, though I know they may not be so readily digestible.
Love your content, we always get so much more than just "a game review". Anyone can go "this is boring, don't buy it" or "this is great, buy it"... You and Elaine are in another level.
8:42 “at no point are you deliberately helping each other”
Wait this is a 100% accurate corporate factory game. Holy shit.
You are probably the only board game reviewer whose videos I will watch in their entirety, even if I have no plans to buy the game. Your videos are just that interesting.
Honestly, I'm at the point where I watch NPI because of NPI and not the games they cover.
Same
"I have a creative writing degree"..
Gold!!!
I think one of the greatest things about Kanban and Sandra is the ambiguity if the setting is supposed to be an accurate representation of corporate management or a parody of it. It's not just the production of cars that matters, it's did you hit the arbitrary training check marks and promote yourself hard enough during meetings. The one who produces the cars might not get the recognition from the boss.
As for complexity, yeah it's complex, but to be that guy, compared to other Lacerdas I always thought it was the easiest. Maybe it's just because thematically it all makes sense, get parts, make cars, get points. On Mars has all kinds of neat mechanics that I like in games, but darned if I can figure out what I'm thematically doing. On Mars and to a lesser extent Lisboa leave me so cold like I'm purely puzzling spreadsheet mechanics while Kanban and the Gallerist I can better visualize the action and then game mechanics are attached to that action.
it's just amazing how consistently good your recent reviews are (ever since you started to frame them differently).
You came a long way. I mean, you were a good, funny reviewer to begin with. Kinda SU&SD with more facial hair. But NPI matured into it's very own thing recently and I'm loving it. This elevates board game reviews to another level. Still entertaining. Still directed at potential buyers. Yet thought provoking.
This is a brilliant review. I think Kanban is a masterpiece and it is so very amusing to play with players aware of this culture and such an experience. But as a GAME is is absolutely great, the pipes and layers done the way Lacerda does it work so well.
Sometimes I wonder if NPI digs too deep into games, then they publish another episode and I stop worrying.
This has been professionally done and a pleasure to experience.
Watching this review on my desktop computer activated my tablet's voice search (which I thought I had turned off) to search for employee training manuals. I feel this is thematically appropriate.
Did you just compare
Sandra to the protomolecule?
The end credit sequence was so awesome, I sat through it half thinking there would be a post credit sequence. Instead i got, and I kid you not, an add for a ride sharing service.
Epic video essay. Thank you for expanding my appreciation for games and injecting much needed discussion beyond consumer advice/shilling to the hobby.
Obsessively refreshing this page to see this video pop up from 360p! Ian O'Toole deserves a better resolution!
Argh! We accidentally clicked "publish" cause it normally takes seconds? Now it's been what, an hour? Send help.
@@NoPunIncluded I've sent several letters to UA-cam headquarters with printed Powerpoint presentations of what Ian O'Toole's iconography looks like in 360p compared to 1080p. I am certain they will respond promptly upon receiving them within 2-6 weeks.
Looking at the options now it's available in 2160p which I never heard of before but it is apparently what 4K is.
I love how you manage to find something to say about the state of the world from reviews.
I am amazed at how you drew a parallel to the movie and make it click under the scope you are looking through.
I would say that, for a "Headache in a Box", you managed to get a far better interpretation of what is "said" with the game than just an exercise in the Kanban principles in Board Game shape.
It's funny, but having worked in a production environment in the Automotive supply chain that used Kanban and TPS, all the dystopian "dead inside" stuff in this game is actually a valid representation
Stating the obvious but NO OTHER board game reviewers would give us a meditation like this. I appreciate it and you guys. I still think fondly of your extensive review of the series of intricate train financing games that I will never play because I have zero interest in trains or finance. You make it work.
Your writing and production are top-notch. Each review I feel like I walk away with a ten-games-deep understanding of a game's experience. Well done friend.
Sandra is one of my all time favourite meeples.
So you like Sandra even even more than the Provost?
The absolute Picasso of board game reviewers! Do I always agree with the thoughts and conclusions expressed? Absolutely not. Do I find the reviews thought provoking, entertaining and engaging? Absolutely yes!
Man, videos like this is why Dias Ex Machina was kicked off of The Dice Tower. I love this kind of content so thank you for keeping that spirit alive.
When was this?
@@TheDarktater Sometime in 2020. "Creative differences" was the reason given, and we know what that means.
@@Kain652 It means I was kicked off because they had to censor me. Not swearing, I censored myself with that. But they had to edit me in regards to innuendo and religious content. Basically, the line was that they wanted more family friendly videos and addressing the sociopolitical views in some games was not compatible with the channel.
Welcome back. I was getting worried not seeing new reviews.
I have been working in an office for 10+ years and it's exactly how you described it
I like how this channel is becoming philosophy through cardboard.
Lots of other channels to give you purchasing advice - let's start some conversations!
You my friend must discover HelloGregor.
Your reviews have become critique, and I mean that in a way to heap praise upon you. Depth, consideration, context and evaluation.
Thank you.
The Landlord's Game, to my knowledge, really marks a turning point in game design history where the mechanics of a board game were being utilized specifically to make an artistic and political point. Maybe there are other examples but it's hard to think of any others that could so easily be pointed to as the start of the modern conception of board games (from only 120 years ago).
I know of no designer who has so perfectly followed on Elizabeth Magie's design ethos than Vital Lacerda. Games like The Gallerist and Kanban and CO2 are all so effortlessly interpretable as obvious scathing critiques of capitalism. Vinhos too, like The Gallerist, is a game about exploiting an industry that should be about quality and merit and profiting off prestige and marketing instead. On Mars is hard not to read as a meditation on the emptiness of space travel escapism given our current technology levels. Lisboa, a game about turning a devastating natural disaster into a way to personally profit that is only accessible to someone rich enough to start with. The only game of his I'm not super familiar with is Escape Artist but even that surely has a message behind it as well.
Either he just happens to accidentally make game after game that lead to such similarly anti-capitalist interpretations by those of us inclined to see them, or he's intentionally created a series of Landlord's Games. They're too meticulously well designed for it to just be a coincidence in my mind.
@@Kain652 for me it was The Gallerist, though there's a whole section of the game that's pretty thematically weak. CO2 is probably easiest in that it's co-op?
I think Chutes and Ladders (nee Moksha Patam) has it beat by a few hundred years! Though I'm not sure whether that aligns with the modern conception of board games.
@@BLiZIHGUHThe lack of choice seems to be at odds with its message as I understand it, though, given its goal is to teach people to accept destiny vs give in to one's passions but the game suggests whether you do one or another is pure chance.
Perhaps I'm wrong on what it's trying to teach, but it seems to me it's in the roll and move and learn category of game that's just an activity to get people reading/learning about stuff.
The snakes would need to mechanically be something that offers a short term gain but long term drawbacks that make it impossible to beat a player who only chooses ladders, to really use its mechanics to elicit the emotions that would cause players to learn the intended lesson. If it's trying to make a point about accepting destiny/randomness, there needs to be either some sort of reward outside of the game for doing so, since the only way it offers to not accept destiny/randomness is to walk away from the game.
Perhaps the landlord's game is more a turning point in terms of sophistication and successfully marrying game mechanics to a lesson of sorts, rather than a brand new take in and of itself.
You're just setting the bar higher and higher with each video. This was an amazing thing to watch.
I came here after your "why I review board games" video and I'm glad I did. This is exceptional and transcending work. This is where I aspire to be one day as a board game reviewer, dropping all my clichés (which, let's face it, have overstayed their welcome) and moving into a broader analytical space. Thanks for your work, NPI.
I used to not be a big No Pun Included fan. Not because it wasn't good but because it wasn't anything different. But man are you my favorite now. Not just from this review but from your growing library of insightful, honest, and none soapbox-ey library of reviews. You look at games in a way that adds value to the entire community. Thank you.
You continue to lead the way in next generation board game criticism. Kudos. Don't let go of those reigns. I was reminded of Akira Kurosawa's Ikiru in this video and agree with your symposium that the game asks us about what work means and can mean to us.
Every video you make seems to be getting better and better!
This is such a great discussion of this game. It's fascinating and complex. The solo mode crushes my soul.
You did it again! These board game dissertations are mindblowingly good!
I'm skeptical of 30+ minute boardgame reviews and tend not to watch most of them unless I have some interest in the game to begin with. I have Kanban EV and had enough time to dive into this one, and it sure paid off. Good work; you managed to carry a sort of narrative tension all the way through.
As for the game itself, it's very much in Lacerda's "get all your ducks in a row" lineage, where you engage with interlinking systems, doing a lot to achieve relatively little. This rubs some people the wrong way, but I enjoy it in specific instances. In Kanban EV, I think it's the most thematically appropriate fit of all of his games with the same feature. All in all, I think Kanban EV is the most coherent marriage of systems and theme in the part of his back catalog that I've tried.
I saw The Gallerist poking some fun at the commercial art scene (wherein artistic ability matters less than the seemingly random chance of being picked by a wealthy benefactor who hypes you up and makes you a star), and the strange, isolated world of Kanban EV really spoke to me in terms of depicting corporate drudgery and people indoctrinated into it in a similar, lightly satirical manner.
The aforementioned games are my favorite Lacerdas, and I'll likely keep them in my collection. I've yet to get On Mars to the table except as a solo game, but based on that one session I'm not quite sure if it actually hangs together in a satisfactory way. I love the theme, but it is a lot less intuitive than I hoped, and so far I haven't seen the sort of delicious subtext in it that elevates the experience of playing Kanban EV or The Gallerist. We'll see.
(As for Sandra, my headcanon is that they have a loving relationship where gentle ribbing is a form of affection, and that the IRL Sandra finds her namesake character hilarious.)
The best content out there.. .maaaaan i do love you already and this is only my 2nd video of yours that i've watched so far
Kanban is a game that I know I have a near-zero chance of ever getting to play, but it is somehow quite fascinating to me. Thank you for a lovely video.
Efka is finally ready for an office job. Welcome brother!
You know I watch your videos even if I own the game :) Its always nice to watch the amazing content you guys create. Kudos
Love your content, bonus points for mentioning The Expanse. Amos is my favourite character on that show :)
Wow guys your videos get better and better thx for the content real fun to watch
I know I’m late to this party, but have to chime in. ^This my dudes is probably your finest content that I’ve yet seen (for reference, I pointed you out to my kids at UKGE 2016). Bravo folks!
I adore this analysis. I felt a similar way about The Gallerist which felt like it did a great job of showing how you manipulate the world of art just to see who has the most money at the end. The grind in The Gallerist made you lose sight of the entire base-level value of art for its own sake as you arbitrarily try to get the most money for things you artificially raise up in price through exposure and publicity.
@@th3cha1rmak3r Agreed, NPI's critique was great except it seems like they don't think this was the game's intent. Whereas I read the game as intensely satirical.
Kanban EV's heaviness comes from the fact that every action is so intertwined with other mechanics that it takes a while to teach and fully grasp. The actual gameplay is quite simple: place a worker take actions based on that location.
Fantastic review as always...yes I may be one of the "Not that heavy" people. :P
And you are right. It is not that heavy😜
Another fantastic video with your interesting scope. Wonderful.
Watching the review and at about 22 minutes in you mention that there’s nothing outside the factory. No one is actually buying the cars. I have played the game and didn’t think much of it, but now that you pointed it out it becomes rather…. peculiar. In a way it relates to the theme and the name of the game. Because Kanban is an essential part of a pull-system. In car making it means that a customer order for a car triggers the production process for the given car. The goal is not to produce anything that is not already sold. In other words, no stocks and no inventory. The way Kanban (in real world, not the game) plays into that is that it’s a system that facilitates the pull of production, and all the bits and pieces and processes and phases that go into it.
Despite the name, Kanban (EV) the board game seems to omit this entirely, since you as employees in the factory are effectively pushing the production ahead. You are the ones who decide what to make and when. Not the customer or the market.
Well, technically, there are orders, and you do get a bonus by filling those orders, as opposed to just pushing random cars off the line. But just like in the real world, you can push cars off the line simply to inflate your performance.
@@RvLeshrac Not in a pull-system, as you'd then be making what was not requested, which is a red flag in itself :)
Fantastic analysis and review.
Thank you for your thoughts.
I’ve always thought of heavy euros as multiplayer mental jigsaw puzzles. I’m fascinated by them but utterly bored and overwhelmed when attempting to play them.
Thanks for yet another fantastic breakdown!
I work in a factory that operates with Kanban production strategies. I don't know if I would love this game because I identify so personally with the experience it's trying to convey, or would hate it because it got too real. For the record, I love and appreciate my job but notably only because I don't mind being a drone for 8-10 hours a day if it means I can afford more board games to play on the weekend... Also healthcare is nice.
I like the idea that every film set has an Elaine directing :P
What if Camus wrote board game reviews? Efka, that's what.
This comment is Absurd!!!
Excellent video. Very thought provoking. Thank you.
Plus, it made me really want to play Kanban.
Until the end ...
... or was it?
Great vid. Best reviews in UA-cam
Good thing I finally watched Christopher Robin last week.
"Toil is just rewarded with more toil". Here I go with my 8 hour day done so I can sit down for a 3 hour toil called a board game 😄
Amazing video. Really well done. Thanks for this.
never knew EV was short for Existential View
Glad to see you guys aren’t dead!
Always love your reviews - they are insightful and thought provoking and as a game designer I always feel like I come away with something to noodle around with, so just wanted to validate you guys for being awesome people and doing awesome work.
Also - what's the tune for the credits? I can't seem to google it but it's nice!
Thank you! The song in the credits is: pär - Magic Mystery Revolution
One of your best so far. Great Energy!
I think the major differences are here that make this palatable as entertainment. It's not 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week, and responsible for feeding my family. It's something I choose to do for a limited time for my own amusement, and I am in a place with a meaningful job and I used to have a more meaningless job than working in a car factory. So I think the theme which turns the company simulator on its head by making the bottom line irrelevant, production meaningless, and only your own personal achievements matter... Which is, itself, part of the art here... Is valid and fun to play with. It is complicated and convaluted, but I enjoy that. But it's very hard to find others to enjoy it with.
Possibly the best board game review video on UA-cam. I hope you'll one day pen a play, perhaps Waiting for Godot II: Analysis Paralysis.
Your reviews are just next level.
Didn't expect an Amos quote in a Christopher Robin spoiler video.
I love this game and several others by Larcerda. Not sure this channel likes any of his games, they aren’t for everyone, that’s for sure. If you have the right group, this game shines.
It has a lot to do with my belief system, but I find meaning in things that others sometimes can’t. I find purpose and satisfaction in untangling complexity, so I think I am going to get a lot out of Kanban EV.
Great video as always
Love you guys! Esp ur honesty
That was absolutely fabulous. Hands down the best board game review I’ve ever seen. Or was it even a review? 😂
Their colonialism review is also good.
Hey, I have a Creative Writing degree too! And I use those skills...never. I work in corporate office for networking tech. but it pays the bills... if maybe unfulfilling in all other ways.
Anyway, great freaking video!
I'm pretty sure Lacerda knows what he's doing with the satire. He does something similar with "The Gallerist". "CO2" is super on the nose. "Lisboa" definitely asks a lot of social/economic questions in a historical context. On Mars and Escape Plan are the two that have a bit less to say and are more just fun expressions of stuff. I'm interested to see where "Weather Machine" falls. I hope he goes back to interesting questions.
Also, I love this game so much!!
As a consultant having spent a decent chunk of my professional life driving and overseeing (or attempting) the kanban approach in an office environment, this review made me laugh out loud with a minor tragic twinge more than a few times. I used to fantasise about buying and using this game as a training exercise of sorts but have moved over the years to relishing the fantasy of bringing it to work and seing which people it amuses without question and which it makes it squirm in existencial dread 😅
I like that game. Not really sure what that tells about me after watching this! I really enjoy your content! 👍
Purchase tip: older versions are cheap on the 2nd-hand market (say $30) and just as much fun.
I mean this in the most sincerely complimentary way possible: I don't care what your opinions are the board games that you cover - your videos are so thought-provoking that I would watch them purely for the academia. Thankfully, they're also interesting, thoughtful, and often hilarious. Thank you for making such high-quality content!
Subscribed. His writing is just the best in the business.
It's been great watching a handful of quality reviewers including yourselves make the transition to proper criticism over the last couple years.
Great job!
Brilliant review! I highly recommend the game btw, probably in my top 5. It's really not that complicated.
I'll give you a like for the Expanse reference alone
Such a good review
I love this game! I love you guys! Thank you for your reviews!
Higher complexity game that I would love to see a review on is High Frontier 4 All (space exploration game). Great review! Thank you for posting!
I rather doubt they would want to draw attention to a Phil Ecklund game. It's a wonderful game as a game, but many people understandably don't want to draw attention to his work as he often uses his games as a platform to express his less than helpful socio-political views.
@@johnathanrhoades7751 Interesting. I do not know about his socio-political views, but he has some interesting game design ideas (I also enjoy Pax Porfiriana).
@@mboyce8853 oh his game design is amazing! Pax Renaissance, HF4All and the BIOS series are all incredible designs. (Haven't played his others, but hear good things). It's his essays and footnotes that he puts in the rule books (British colonization was good for the colonized in Pax Pamir 1e. Nazis didn't hate Jews because of race but because they were bankers in Pax Ren. Others to a lesser extent.) that a lot of people take issue with and won't promote. Very understandably from my perspective, but I wouldn't fault anyone for divorcing the game from the designer either; it's just not something most people want to spotlight and promote.
@@johnathanrhoades7751 I am disappointed to know that he comes across as an apologist for colonists and racists in his rule book notes. I did a Google search and now understand your point.
Don't stop making wonderful, thoughtful content like this! Thank you NPI!
Wonderful video.
I feel that this is your best video yet. Not into euro games and i won't be buying kanban certainly but I thoroughly enjoyed your video especially the christopher robin and ford connection.
My favourite element of Kanban (original Kanban, I haven't played the new edition) is the way the game pulls you in two directions: to get shit done (making cars, upgrading designs, etc), and....to please the boss. Which means a lot of training. Which is by and large unproductive, aside from a few bennies as you climb the ladder, but if you don't do it you'll be constantly kicked in the butt by Sandra and speak last in the meetings. -- I've been on the fence about the new version both due to pricetag and the aggressively sleek and empty art direction. I wonder if Ian O'Toole hates the art world as much as corporate culture--The Gallerist has a similarly sterile vibe (unlike the livelier appearance of Vinhos and Lisboa).
(happily) Working for "big blue" corporation for 14 years, working in agile (derived from Kanban), i was very interested in this game since i started playing boardgames. I have bought it recently and looking forward to play it. I hope it will be as enjoyable as Office(US) tv show. We always joke about corporation life with my colleagues. As a joke i set my employment as "drone at IBM" on facebook 14 years ago. I dont think i will ever get to change it. When does one stop being just a drone while working for such huge corporation? One thing is for sure, i loved this review. Very weird, even for you! :)
Brilliant game. Thanks for the video!
8:29
Question: are those meeples?
Answer: No! They are devo!
Thank you for the entertaining review. I do enjoy the game Kanban (drivers' edition) despite its capitalist theme. You should have juxtaposed the theme of Kanban with that of Friedemann Friese's Feierabend.
While I appreciate Ian O'Toole's art for Kanban EV, I prefer the original board and design as they are more intuitive to me.
Also, who did Disney make Christopher Robin for? It was too depressing for families. The capitalist plot was the opposite of Mary Poppins. The emphasis on imagination and leisure from Milne's books were overshadowed by this dreary plot about work and PTSD from WWII.
To me, the most interesting change between the original edition and the EV edition is, before, Sandra’s default was “Nice” and in EV it’s “Mean”.
Wow.... Just... Wow...
This game really shines with the "Cones of Dunshire" expansion.
this was really good
Worth waiting for 2160p50 ❤️
Bear minimum.
"Late Capitalist Petit Bourgeoisie: The Game" --Gotcha.
I get it. As “Not That Complicated” Guy, I do get that this big, complex, game with lots of moving parts isn’t for everyone and can be a bit to complex for some gamers. But it’s such a great game. A little extra work to fully get it, but it was worth it for me. 5 Stars.
This is so good.
Hello, when will we see Arkham Horror LCG part 2 review?
2 minutes in, Efka says On Mars is the 5th most complex game on BGG. How did he find that info out? I'd love to see a list of the top 50 or so "heaviest" games on BGG but don't really see a way to find that info out natively. I've done an advanced search but it doesn't sort the games by weight, just lists them w/in the parameters specified but definitely not sorted by weight.
I asked BGG and they told me.
@@NoPunIncluded Haha, direct and efficient. Dig it. Thanks for letting me know.
You say board game review, I say fucking fantastic motivational speech!