...I didn't realise it until I read your post. I blame it on watching historical sewing videos recently. Quarantine has me watching some weird stuff...
Oh no, if Carcosa was a gauntlet difficulty-wise for you two, I'm quite worried about my beloved Forgotten Age... Fingers and tentacles very much crossed it went over well, there's so much to love in that wonderful jungle, but also a lot of poison.
@@TwistedTentacleInn While I usually disagree with you, for once I can shake your hand! The review started out good, but when they started touching Carcosa, it went straight up bonkers. Carcosa is probably the most loved Cycle by the community, for all its twists and turns. These 2 reviewers struggling with a Doubt/Conviction-route sounds to me like small deckbuilding mistakes and not the games fault. (I think this mainly, because they included Dario in a Mark Harrigan deck...) - Do people actually sign their UA-cam Posts? We can see a username...?
@@spiritreacher glad we can at least agree somewhere (though I'm not sure what you disagree with me about, but I'd love to hear your thoughts since I do welcome varying viewpoints)! Yeah, Carcosa is very much beloved by the community and it's pretty strange to hear that these two thought it was "too punishing". P. S. (edit): Hmmm.... When you get a letter in the mail or an email you can see who sent it, but I'm certain there is no issue from you with them signing their names there, no...? - Innkeeper Vase Odin
Arkham Horror LCG is by far my favorite game and the game I've put the most time in. Love the video! I will echo what some other comments have said and say that Carcossa is usually not considered especially hard (compared to other campaigns) no matter which decision you choose and I'm not 100% sure what happened in their playthrough. It is my favorite cycle for sure and would recommend Carcossa over Dunwich personally. I can't wait to see what they say about the next expansion, the Forgotten Age. That expansion is BRUTAL! Also personally I always give my group one "mulligan" (or free restart) when playing a new campaign. There always seems to be one scenario that is either just a difficulty spike or that luck is just not on our side. This gives us a little bit of breathing room without making the difficulty irrelevant with infinite replays. Just a suggestion to make the game a bit more manageable difficulty wise.
@@brdanner But they said in the video, they have played already all Arkham LCG, just editing will take a while. I'm also already sceptical, if they will continue.
"The fun comes from the initial discover. Replaying scenarios is not fun" Aaaaah, that explains it. If you are in it for the story and not the mechanics I can totally see why AH might be a bit disappointing. In that regard, Mansions of Madness is the far superior game, though not without it's own quirks and flaws!
This game is so ridiculously good. Never seen a choose your own adventure integrated so well with the actual game play. The deck building and especially deck upgrade system as your characters grow in knowledge and madness are unparalleled.
My experience with Arkham is that the more you play it, the more you appreciate the tricky scenarios, as you realise how initially unpromising cards can interact with the game mechanics. That said, a game that takes quite a few games to appreciate (as it did it my case...it went from being quite low in my opinion to one of my favourites ) isn’t going to be ideal for groups who like to rotate games...there are, after all, many excellent games out there.
I’ve only played the core and the first two expansions (plus Rougarou and Carnival) but my single playthrough of Carcosa is one of the greatest gaming experiences I’ve ever had in my life. Didn’t even play the final mission. Confused by the critique - the characters in Chambers ‘King in Yellow’ (well, ‘Repairer of Reputations’ and The Yellow Sign’) aren’t possessed, they’re literally driven insane by exposure to the play. It’s got nothing to do with Blatty’s ‘Exorcist’, which is a specifically religious battle between good and evil. Perhaps I’m being a thicky.
Great review very interesting. Few things I'd mention about our AH LCG experience (which we are frankly addicted to) are: 1. Finding the community was a revelation, particularly Drawn to the Flame podcast. We had never played an LCG and it showed us the depth of thought and strategy you could have in the game. 2. We find replaying scenarios to be very interesting. Of course the story recedes in importance (though many scenarios have multiple outcomes) and the puzzle of how do I take what is in my hand to do what I need to do comes to the fore. 3. It's a huge barrier to entry, but the endless navel gazing of building decks, trying them out, tweaking them, is really satisfying and provides endless challenge. 4. The game rewards different ways of tackling the scenarios. You're not just slaughtering monsters. You have to investigate to progress and can choose lots of different ways to deal with the enemies, not just shoot them in the face. Thats not to say the game is perfect, we've complained to each other about plenty of aspects of the story, campaign mechanics etc. But I'm really struck by the number of different ways different players can find the game interesting. Deck building, the story, the campaign, the puzzle of working out your best turn, the art etc etc. Am really interested to hear the thoughts on the Lovecraft theme in general, it's the most troubling aspect of the game for me and I'm yet to find a principled way of staring at those problems and finding a way through that's not just well I enjoy the game so much I'll ignore it.
Haris Zark I’d guess it is the commonly cited fact that Lovecraft himself was horribly racist. It can be tough to separate the world he created from the personal viewpoints of the author
My group always replays scenarios if there is no way forward after it, and often do if we feel we had particularly terrible luck. In neither case is the second play through less fun, so I can't relate to that criticism. In fact the very randomness that some people dislike in this game guarantees that each play through feels significantly different, by drawing different player and encounter cards.
I *love* Arkham Horror LCG. I have it *all* (currently released). I had to pause the video and take some deep breaths when you mentioned the total price...
Huh, looks like Fantasy Flight took your comments about the mental health representation in Carcosa to heart, as in the new release of Path of Carcosa all 'Lunatic'-traits are changed to 'Possessed' and they changed the names of those enemies, for example 'Young Psychopath' is now 'Puppet of Hastur'.
If you just want to play through each campaign once and have a fun romp, play on easy difficulty! It's what we're doing and having a great time. What you have to bear in mind is that the difficulty settings have to span the entire breadth of people that just want a fun game with some thematic player decks and bit of challenge, to people that want to pore over every card, develop the most tightly tuned decks, and play through scenarios 10-20 times or more. It's not like most co-op games where it's "well, we've played board games before, so let's start on normal" - it's a whole different scale.
Did you really believe they played everything? Clearly they reviewed what they had played and were planning to play the rest in time to put out a part 2 but things got away from them. That's what happens when you take it upon yourself to review hundreds of games instead of just enjoying the hobby. Honestly I will never understand how this "job" is financially feasible. It makes no sense, but here we are.
As a AHLCG geek I have never been more excited before watching a NPI. I'm also one of your VERY RECENT fans, digging more and more into your very personal approach to reviewing games. I'm almost afraid to watch it, but I'm also thrilled to see where YOU will find weak spots. It's obvious there are some. It's impossible to be perfect, given the volume.
I find it cathartic to play characters who have mental health issues. I'm glad they included it. I don't find Arkham horror all that pulpy so may be it just resonates with me differently. As for the term Lunatic, lunacy acts in government legislation around the world were in force until post world war 2 so the term was definitely being used.
When most people are binge-watching tv shows, you're binge-playing through Arkham Horror LCG! Looking forward to your second video and your conclusion on the game as a whole. It's one of my favourites, if not my all-time favourite, but not sure how I'd feel if I played everything end-to-end in a marathon like that. I'd also be interested to know which characters you played through each campaign with and what you thought of them.
I guess the other thing to note is that difficulty in Arkham is as much a factor of the investigator you choose (some are straight up better or worse, some work better at certain player counts), the deck you put together, your team composition (some investigators work really well with each other, others have almost anti-synergy) and how well the investigator is suited to the campaign (campaigns require different skills in different amounts) as it just the campaign and the difficulty level. We didn't get that big jump in difficulty between Dunwich and Carcosa (in fact Carcosa seemed slightly easier) but a lot goes into that. I guess what I'm saying is be cautious about recommending campaigns based on how punishing they felt based on one play, as that can vary hugely. If you're using mostly the investigators that come with each deluxe for that campaign then Dunwich was most likely easier because you had Rex, and Rex is ridiculous, and Carcosa would have had a similar trajectory if you had Rex along too.
Came here from the middle of Efka's Top Ten where he declared they had already said numerous times why there wouldn't be a Part 2 to this, to see if there was such an explanation here, and ???
So happy when you’ve read my mind and set to work on the content i asked for before I asked for it! Your thoughts on Dunwich were mine exactly and what pushed me to ask for the re-review! Glad to get all this. I think it will be helpful to many.
(Disclaimer: After rewatching this video, I edited this comment a lot, as I realized I was a bit unfair in my earlier critique, including misunderstanding something that was said. To the extent this is true, I apologize.) While I generally like NPI a lot, this video was a bit of a disappointment to me. From a big picture perspective, in feels strange to tell someone you played all of something so they “don't have to” as it assumes that they would not want to. And I also don't resonate at all with any complaints as to its difficulty, including the fact that, even on "easy" mode, you will inevitably start a lot of campaigns that you don't end up finishing. And, on the issue of difficulty, while knowing more about a scenario might help you approach it smarter the next time, this far from guarantees success; this game is hard and mulligans are an absolutely valid option - at least as valid as restarting a level in a video game that you have trouble beating. On a smaller scale, it’s hard to justify dismissing the “Return to”s simply because you heard they aren’t good, especially when one of your reasons for not recommending Zealot includes the first scenario - an obvious tutorial scenario that still presents a challenge in many ways - being "daft." (I personally think the "Return to"s are great - maybe not great value for the price, but that’s a different calculus). Understanding that no game is perfect, perhaps it was just a real bad idea to play every scenario in a row in a relatively short period of time as you’re still learning the game. (As a side note, I do appreciate the point about some of the less “woke” parts of the game design decisions when it comes to Carcosa, even if I don't consider these elements as problematic, especially considering the very core of Carcosa is a question about the true nature of one's sanity.) In the end, I really feel like this review fails to capture the richness, variety, and possibilities that permeate this game; every investigator plays differently and the synergies between cards are truly endless. Arkham has as much variety in set up, challenges, and objectives as any on the market; it's not a game to "get through" - instead, it's a game to get immersed in as you discover new ways to think about the game from investigator to investigator and scenario to scenario, not to mention campaign to campaign. Based on this review, it seems that “part 2” is either going to be strongly on the negative side - or a questionable endeavor in trying to determine the "best campaign," when each one offers something truly different and unique from the others. While this game is not for everyone, it has an incredible amount to offer in mechanics, narrative, and gameplay for those able and willing to invest in it.
@@cyberleish I appreciate you're ability to come at the statement from a different perspective. That said, I still question that approach as it relates to the game. On my channel, I've slammed various parts of Arkham numerous times for various design decisions, so perhaps there is some hypocrisy in my position here (and I'll be pondering this for sure...). However, I currently feel there is a difference in that my criticism starts from a place of understanding what the game in its entirety offers in variability and game experience, and then moves to evaluating each individual expansion. In contrast, I feel this review mistakes the trees for the forest in a way that does the game (and NPI viewers who are not familiar with the Arkham LCG) a disservice.
@@cyberleish Yeah - I don't know how anyone gets into Arkham now - and I'm guessing that's similar to how I don't know how I would get into the LOTR LCG or Netrunner. There's an overwhelming amount of content! I've advised people to not get into the game unless they're committed to getting the base box and at least one full cycle (and preferably two - Dunwich and Carcosa plus the base box give you a fairly well-rounded collection with an incredible amount of replayability - and, no, I don't think you really need two base boxes). But, as you said, it's quite the undertaking to get there. (As a sidenote, I wouldn't worry about getting the investigator starter decks as I don't find them that impressive - the deckbuilds are pretty wonky and the characters more niche. In contrast, the more recent standalone side scenarios - Blob, Excelsior - are really good!)
@@cyberleish So, yes and no. You can definitely play the 3 scenarios in the base box with just the investigator cards included, but it's going to be more of a struggle than normal. Most players will build decks utilizing their entire collection once they have them. But the base box, even with its limitations, should give you enough of the flavor of the game to give you a better idea of whether getting more is worth the investment. Just know that the card collection gets a lot better/more interesting, the investigators themselves get a lot better/more interesting, and the Dunwich scenarios are generally better/more interesting. :) (In the base box, the first scenario is more of a tutorial and the last scenario is a bit of a miss for a lot of people, me included. In my mind, the Dunwich and Carcosa scenarios are really where the game comes into its own.)
@@cyberleish Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying! Most people that recommend the second base box do it because they also recommend deck builds that have doubles for the sake of deck consistency and predictability. While objectively slightly less optimal, I prefer more variety in my deck builds, and every deluxe expansion/mythos pack gives you more investigator cards to choose from.
@@cyberleish Great point, and really helpful to understand the potential confusion. Arkham is a bit different. In Arkham, you generally start a campaign with access to ALL of your Level 0 cards that fit a certain class or two, depending on the investigator's deck building restrictions. And, generally speaking, as a campaign progresses, the ONLY way to change your deck (not counting cards added to your deck via effects of the campaign's storyline) is by spending experience points (XP) that you earn as you go from scenario to scenario as you accomplish certain tasks. Now, XP is limited so, while you can use 1XP to swap out one Level 0 card for another, you will generally be spending your XP to get better cards that are Level 1 or higher (generally at a rate of 1XP/card level). So, in essence your investigator deck is fairly locked in at the start of a campaign and will change only incrementally scenario to scenario. In this way, the smaller your pool of cards to start a campaign with, the more limited your deck builds will be. Adding a lot more level 0 cards into your card pool before a campaign starts will give you a lot more possibilities.
Love the dedication! Picked up a core set a while back and have been trying to work out which set is a good starting place from there. Can't wait for part 2!
I think the boardgame community is at odds with your view - I’ve taught it to a number of players veterans to boardgames and new gamers alike and they love it!
Found the answer deep into the comments. To spare others from the same search: Nope, Part 2 was never made. Probably never will, at this point. It happens 😬
Carcosa was my favorite cycle, even though we failed on the very last mission. The one with the jungle and snake people, that one was kind of poop if you didn't play with the investigators that came with that cycle. There were a couple of interesting missions and mechanics in it, but the story and most of the new mechanics were rubbish.
I hope you folks are staying safe! Thanks for this review I might take another swing on it with my wife. That second or third scenario in the core set was a bit of a miss for us.
Pick up a deluxe box. The core set difficulty rating just skyrockets. Something like Dunwich, Carcosa, Circle Undone or Dream-eaters. I would not get Forgotten Age as your next campaign for sure.
Just started out with the game, 1 deluxe box deep currently, with all the mython packs for Dunwich and Carcosa out of stock. The timing on these reviews couldn't be better.
Lunatic is entirely acceptable for the era and Efka is just not familiar with American vernacular and is assuming the Queen's English is the global standard. Although the UK removed the term with the Mental Health Act of 1959, it was not removed from American laws until 2010. A quick Google search on word usage over time shows that usage actually was at its peak in the 1920s.
The scenario auto-setup, combined with the ability to copy and paste cards is incredibly handy. Tabletop Simulator got my friend to but the whole series irl too.
I think I felt similarly about the core set and frankly felt having to buy two was a massive con. After so many campaigns I think the core set should have an upgrade pack including just the cards from the core you could deck build with. Hopefully the forthcoming starter character decks will mitigate this a bit but I’ve still not gone further that the core campaign. Dunwich does look excellent though...🤔
Okay the bit where you try to make cheese on toast by hitting a bit of cheese and some bread with a wooden spoon was worth a trip to Patreon my itself :) Keep up the good work.
What a great review, thanks! I wanted to love the core set but it never quite clicked for us. It sounds as though the expansions are much better though, so I'm looking forward to the second video so we can decide which expansion to try!
I'm playing Carcossa for the first time, and solo. My investigator has 4 Mental Trauma going into act 6. My only real complaint about the game is how easy it is to get trauma and how impossible it is to get rid of it.
Arkham Horror LCG has got to be one of the most inclusive games there is. They have investigators of many different races, males, females, gay and now a trans character. But yet you seriously bash them from using the word Lunatic and not understanding mental health issues... Can we just try to not search for a reason to get offended for once.
A game can do one thing well (say, gender balance in AH) and another thing poorly (like some of the mental health stuff), you can be happy about the positives and still point out the issues. These are not mutually exclusive stances!
That description about redoing scenarios not being fun is the problem I had with TIME stories. Fun the first time, and no I have no desire to do it again, or again.
I don't agree with their viewpoint. Replaying the campaigns is still fun as there are loads of different investigators with their own mechanics and the campaign has different story paths that you can choose.
I really like the systems and mechanisms of Arkham but the way that the game handles difficulty is definitely a problem. Even on standard I find the game to be quite punishing, and the campaign structure means that a particularly bad run can tank your entire campaign. I've been playing through Carcosa with my girlfriend but after trying Marvel Champions I don't think she'll go back to Arkham. I personally think MC is much less interesting (and in particular, much less interactive) but it feels a lot more like you're fighting against the villain rather than against the chaos bag.
I picked up Dunwich Legacy on the back of this, although only the base expansion and the first Mythos pack. Looking forward to finding out what my next purchase will be! I don't think I can afford too many of the expansions.
Started supporting on Patreon, I really enjoy your videos and you can see there's lot of work behind them. Plus, you're both fun to watch. Plus, monthly audiolog! yu-hu! While I cannot guarantee how long my monthly support will last, I imagine you run estimations of average length of support duration and can plan on some of those metrics to budget your work out, right?
I dislike that they don't offer a complimentary set of cards to supplement the core set. Also had some problems with some of the rules explanation. (The skill tests end up not below zero rule, the skill card text refers to who rule, the every card in threat area is interactable by all investigators in that area rule, etc.) Luckily the internet is there to point them out and I printed them out as a reminder when I next play the game. But I do really enjoy playing through the core set and the story elements only work to intrigue me. It doesn't get in the way for me at all. So maybe it's just a game made for me.
If you're a new player and are wondering if you should buy this game then you should know that the new Revised Core Set fixes the issue of having to buy 2 core sets, you just need to buy 1 Revised Core Set. I also don't think you should skip any cycles. That being said I get the impression based on their attitude that they're bored and annoyed by this game which is not a good thing to have in a review. This could turn off some potential new players. The fact that they still haven't released the supposed Part 2 makes me think that even more. I know that not everyone is gonna like this game but I think that here they fail to look at it objectively. There are other reviews out there that do Arkham Horror much better justice than this one. I'd advise that you don't base your decision about buying this game just on this review.
Yeah some of the difficulty levels in Mansions of Madness are not just bad - but obviously not tested at all. There's two scenarios I've experienced (of a total of about 5 in total) which are straight up mathematically not possible with the wrong number of players, which is just insane. Imagine paying $120 for an experience that doesn't work - and also 3 of your friends trusted you, and they had a miserable time as well.
If anyone discovers this video in the future and is wondering - There is not likely to be a part 2 ever. Lots of good reasons, covered in one of their podcasts (24 iirc?) Enjoy what you find here with these two lovely people and go looking elsewhere for further thoughts! Have a good day :)
@@brisingr29 lovecraft was bad and racist and even though the lead designer is trans and there is plenty of diverse representation in the game including some of the very few queer and non-binary characters in games period - they think a game based on an IP that has evolved for 40+ years and never embraced the racist texts it was based on is still bad. Which I think is a bad take. Reclaiming and rewriting stories is the best way to defeat closed mindedness and xenophobia of all kinds. And this game does it wonderfully.
There are two more campaigns now, in addition to the three that they still have to review :p As to the "lunatic" being renamed "possessed" shenanigan, I think that would have been a mistake, since "possession" implies that the King in Yellow is some kind of spell or curse, and the people who believe in it are actually victims of that curse. The interesting part in the whole King in Yellow thing is the possibility that we are the mad people involved in an illusion and that the truth is the play and only the play. Of course, that doesn't mean that "lunatic" is the best choice.
I got out of Arkham roughly when this video came out because of availability, when I realized they weren't doing mythos packs anymore I decided to get back into it and watch the full review... where's Part 2?
Great review you two - just a trio of questions: 1.) If you play the Dunwich Horror cycle, is it *still* advisable to have two core sets, or will one do supplemented by the DH Deluxe expansion? 2.) Is it fine to just skip the core set scenarios completely and just dive straight into DH? 3.) Has Elaine got a new Gibson single-cut?
1) If you want to just dip in and try it, one is enough. But if you plan on fastidiously play an entire campaign I'd think about two 2) Yeah, this should be fine. Maybe play the first scenario with a starter deck from the core set to get a feel for it and abandon it afterwards. 3) That's a 1983 Gibson Challenger! We had it for a while and now fixed it up.
@@NoPunIncluded Ah okay - I have a bunch of cards (Core plus the whole DH cycle) but haven't played it yet - didn't know whether another Core was necessary if I have all the DH cards, that's all. Oh sweet! Bit of a single-cut fan myself, but I'm a PRS fanboy... it's those bird inlays innit ;)
Have actually been trying to start a collection of this the past few weeks, and been wondering if some sets are "skippable" or not. Seems Dunwich falls into the same hole a lot of other LCGs like Netrunner did; feels a bit more like the "completion" of the core set, allowing the mechanics space to breath when there are alternate ways they can be applied with more card options. Looking forward to the next vid.
Yeah, totally agree with that. I can't imagine building or upgrading a character without using a bunch of player cards from Dunwich. And even after all these cycles, Ashcan Pete is still one of the best characters for single-handed solo play.
Pretty sure Mark Harrigan can't take Dario. He can take Guardian cards and Tactics. Dario El-Amin is neither... Also, you said you place clues on the Act.. Which you don't.. You spend them from your Play Area.
It took me 7 or so minutes to realize that reviewing or breaking out the "corset" was actually the "core set".
...I didn't realise it until I read your post. I blame it on watching historical sewing videos recently. Quarantine has me watching some weird stuff...
lastseer I came here to post that exact same thing lol. I thought it was a classic Efka wordplay somehow.
@@weatherbutinspace6799 wink wink nudge nudge
Maybe for you. Don't judge how I play AH
Oh no, if Carcosa was a gauntlet difficulty-wise for you two, I'm quite worried about my beloved Forgotten Age... Fingers and tentacles very much crossed it went over well, there's so much to love in that wonderful jungle, but also a lot of poison.
Yeah I was laughing as I thought the same thing. My opinions on this game are so different from these two reviewers.
- Innkeeper Vase Odin
@@TwistedTentacleInn While I usually disagree with you, for once I can shake your hand!
The review started out good, but when they started touching Carcosa, it went straight up bonkers.
Carcosa is probably the most loved Cycle by the community, for all its twists and turns. These 2 reviewers struggling with a Doubt/Conviction-route sounds to me like small deckbuilding mistakes and not the games fault. (I think this mainly, because they included Dario in a Mark Harrigan deck...)
- Do people actually sign their UA-cam Posts? We can see a username...?
@@spiritreacher glad we can at least agree somewhere (though I'm not sure what you disagree with me about, but I'd love to hear your thoughts since I do welcome varying viewpoints)!
Yeah, Carcosa is very much beloved by the community and it's pretty strange to hear that these two thought it was "too punishing".
P. S. (edit): Hmmm.... When you get a letter in the mail or an email you can see who sent it, but I'm certain there is no issue from you with them signing their names there, no...?
- Innkeeper Vase Odin
Arkham Horror LCG is by far my favorite game and the game I've put the most time in. Love the video! I will echo what some other comments have said and say that Carcossa is usually not considered especially hard (compared to other campaigns) no matter which decision you choose and I'm not 100% sure what happened in their playthrough. It is my favorite cycle for sure and would recommend Carcossa over Dunwich personally. I can't wait to see what they say about the next expansion, the Forgotten Age. That expansion is BRUTAL!
Also personally I always give my group one "mulligan" (or free restart) when playing a new campaign. There always seems to be one scenario that is either just a difficulty spike or that luck is just not on our side. This gives us a little bit of breathing room without making the difficulty irrelevant with infinite replays. Just a suggestion to make the game a bit more manageable difficulty wise.
When is part 2 coming? Looking forward to it!
This!!
Yes please
Think they’ve moved on or forgotten
Steady on, all, the remaining content is vast and intricate. I’d give them a few months at minimum, if you actually want them to play stuff.
@@brdanner But they said in the video, they have played already all Arkham LCG, just editing will take a while. I'm also already sceptical, if they will continue.
"The fun comes from the initial discover. Replaying scenarios is not fun"
Aaaaah, that explains it. If you are in it for the story and not the mechanics I can totally see why AH might be a bit disappointing. In that regard, Mansions of Madness is the far superior game, though not without it's own quirks and flaws!
So..... is part 2 ever coming out?
you and I wish!
@@VoicesofHonour wait, it's been over a year and no part 2??
Part 2 please
We need more...Part 2...
Where are you?
Part 2??
This game is so ridiculously good. Never seen a choose your own adventure integrated so well with the actual game play. The deck building and especially deck upgrade system as your characters grow in knowledge and madness are unparalleled.
My experience with Arkham is that the more you play it, the more you appreciate the tricky scenarios, as you realise how initially unpromising cards can interact with the game mechanics. That said, a game that takes quite a few games to appreciate (as it did it my case...it went from being quite low in my opinion to one of my favourites ) isn’t going to be ideal for groups who like to rotate games...there are, after all, many excellent games out there.
Where is the sequel? Waiting impatiently...
When you stare long enough into the card game, the card game stares back into you.
I’ve only played the core and the first two expansions (plus Rougarou and Carnival) but my single playthrough of Carcosa is one of the greatest gaming experiences I’ve ever had in my life. Didn’t even play the final mission. Confused by the critique - the characters in Chambers ‘King in Yellow’ (well, ‘Repairer of Reputations’ and The Yellow Sign’) aren’t possessed, they’re literally driven insane by exposure to the play. It’s got nothing to do with Blatty’s ‘Exorcist’, which is a specifically religious battle between good and evil. Perhaps I’m being a thicky.
@@cyberleish IIRC, you can lose the campaign before getting to the last scenario.
Great review very interesting. Few things I'd mention about our AH LCG experience (which we are frankly addicted to) are:
1. Finding the community was a revelation, particularly Drawn to the Flame podcast. We had never played an LCG and it showed us the depth of thought and strategy you could have in the game.
2. We find replaying scenarios to be very interesting. Of course the story recedes in importance (though many scenarios have multiple outcomes) and the puzzle of how do I take what is in my hand to do what I need to do comes to the fore.
3. It's a huge barrier to entry, but the endless navel gazing of building decks, trying them out, tweaking them, is really satisfying and provides endless challenge.
4. The game rewards different ways of tackling the scenarios. You're not just slaughtering monsters. You have to investigate to progress and can choose lots of different ways to deal with the enemies, not just shoot them in the face.
Thats not to say the game is perfect, we've complained to each other about plenty of aspects of the story, campaign mechanics etc. But I'm really struck by the number of different ways different players can find the game interesting. Deck building, the story, the campaign, the puzzle of working out your best turn, the art etc etc.
Am really interested to hear the thoughts on the Lovecraft theme in general, it's the most troubling aspect of the game for me and I'm yet to find a principled way of staring at those problems and finding a way through that's not just well I enjoy the game so much I'll ignore it.
Haris Zark I’d guess it is the commonly cited fact that Lovecraft himself was horribly racist. It can be tough to separate the world he created from the personal viewpoints of the author
My group always replays scenarios if there is no way forward after it, and often do if we feel we had particularly terrible luck. In neither case is the second play through less fun, so I can't relate to that criticism. In fact the very randomness that some people dislike in this game guarantees that each play through feels significantly different, by drawing different player and encounter cards.
I *love* Arkham Horror LCG. I have it *all* (currently released). I had to pause the video and take some deep breaths when you mentioned the total price...
I skipped that bit ^_^;
Thank god i bought everything piece by piece :D
Huh, looks like Fantasy Flight took your comments about the mental health representation in Carcosa to heart, as in the new release of Path of Carcosa all 'Lunatic'-traits are changed to 'Possessed' and they changed the names of those enemies, for example 'Young Psychopath' is now 'Puppet of Hastur'.
Oh wow
You’d think two years would be enough time to get the second video out. Chop chop!
They won't do part 2. Moral quandary and too much.
Hope you guys can make Part 2 this year!
If you just want to play through each campaign once and have a fun romp, play on easy difficulty! It's what we're doing and having a great time. What you have to bear in mind is that the difficulty settings have to span the entire breadth of people that just want a fun game with some thematic player decks and bit of challenge, to people that want to pore over every card, develop the most tightly tuned decks, and play through scenarios 10-20 times or more. It's not like most co-op games where it's "well, we've played board games before, so let's start on normal" - it's a whole different scale.
And then there was as never a part 2?
Did you really believe they played everything? Clearly they reviewed what they had played and were planning to play the rest in time to put out a part 2 but things got away from them. That's what happens when you take it upon yourself to review hundreds of games instead of just enjoying the hobby. Honestly I will never understand how this "job" is financially feasible. It makes no sense, but here we are.
As a AHLCG geek I have never been more excited before watching a NPI. I'm also one of your VERY RECENT fans, digging more and more into your very personal approach to reviewing games. I'm almost afraid to watch it, but I'm also thrilled to see where YOU will find weak spots. It's obvious there are some. It's impossible to be perfect, given the volume.
I find it cathartic to play characters who have mental health issues. I'm glad they included it. I don't find Arkham horror all that pulpy so may be it just resonates with me differently. As for the term Lunatic, lunacy acts in government legislation around the world were in force until post world war 2 so the term was definitely being used.
When most people are binge-watching tv shows, you're binge-playing through Arkham Horror LCG! Looking forward to your second video and your conclusion on the game as a whole. It's one of my favourites, if not my all-time favourite, but not sure how I'd feel if I played everything end-to-end in a marathon like that. I'd also be interested to know which characters you played through each campaign with and what you thought of them.
I guess the other thing to note is that difficulty in Arkham is as much a factor of the investigator you choose (some are straight up better or worse, some work better at certain player counts), the deck you put together, your team composition (some investigators work really well with each other, others have almost anti-synergy) and how well the investigator is suited to the campaign (campaigns require different skills in different amounts) as it just the campaign and the difficulty level. We didn't get that big jump in difficulty between Dunwich and Carcosa (in fact Carcosa seemed slightly easier) but a lot goes into that. I guess what I'm saying is be cautious about recommending campaigns based on how punishing they felt based on one play, as that can vary hugely. If you're using mostly the investigators that come with each deluxe for that campaign then Dunwich was most likely easier because you had Rex, and Rex is ridiculous, and Carcosa would have had a similar trajectory if you had Rex along too.
I once tried to understand curling. Then irealized that the First round is called "End" .... just like every following round.
Came here from the middle of Efka's Top Ten where he declared they had already said numerous times why there wouldn't be a Part 2 to this, to see if there was such an explanation here, and ???
So happy when you’ve read my mind and set to work on the content i asked for before I asked for it! Your thoughts on Dunwich were mine exactly and what pushed me to ask for the re-review! Glad to get all this. I think it will be helpful to many.
Also that ending was priceless
2:04
Color out of space is both a great lovecraft movie AND a great nic cage movie. Great casting.
I feel it in my bones, PART 2 next week!
Just saw this great review and wanted to see part 2 as well….but….where is it!?
(Disclaimer: After rewatching this video, I edited this comment a lot, as I realized I was a bit unfair in my earlier critique, including misunderstanding something that was said. To the extent this is true, I apologize.) While I generally like NPI a lot, this video was a bit of a disappointment to me. From a big picture perspective, in feels strange to tell someone you played all of something so they “don't have to” as it assumes that they would not want to. And I also don't resonate at all with any complaints as to its difficulty, including the fact that, even on "easy" mode, you will inevitably start a lot of campaigns that you don't end up finishing. And, on the issue of difficulty, while knowing more about a scenario might help you approach it smarter the next time, this far from guarantees success; this game is hard and mulligans are an absolutely valid option - at least as valid as restarting a level in a video game that you have trouble beating. On a smaller scale, it’s hard to justify dismissing the “Return to”s simply because you heard they aren’t good, especially when one of your reasons for not recommending Zealot includes the first scenario - an obvious tutorial scenario that still presents a challenge in many ways - being "daft." (I personally think the "Return to"s are great - maybe not great value for the price, but that’s a different calculus). Understanding that no game is perfect, perhaps it was just a real bad idea to play every scenario in a row in a relatively short period of time as you’re still learning the game. (As a side note, I do appreciate the point about some of the less “woke” parts of the game design decisions when it comes to Carcosa, even if I don't consider these elements as problematic, especially considering the very core of Carcosa is a question about the true nature of one's sanity.) In the end, I really feel like this review fails to capture the richness, variety, and possibilities that permeate this game; every investigator plays differently and the synergies between cards are truly endless. Arkham has as much variety in set up, challenges, and objectives as any on the market; it's not a game to "get through" - instead, it's a game to get immersed in as you discover new ways to think about the game from investigator to investigator and scenario to scenario, not to mention campaign to campaign. Based on this review, it seems that “part 2” is either going to be strongly on the negative side - or a questionable endeavor in trying to determine the "best campaign," when each one offers something truly different and unique from the others. While this game is not for everyone, it has an incredible amount to offer in mechanics, narrative, and gameplay for those able and willing to invest in it.
@@cyberleish I appreciate you're ability to come at the statement from a different perspective. That said, I still question that approach as it relates to the game. On my channel, I've slammed various parts of Arkham numerous times for various design decisions, so perhaps there is some hypocrisy in my position here (and I'll be pondering this for sure...). However, I currently feel there is a difference in that my criticism starts from a place of understanding what the game in its entirety offers in variability and game experience, and then moves to evaluating each individual expansion. In contrast, I feel this review mistakes the trees for the forest in a way that does the game (and NPI viewers who are not familiar with the Arkham LCG) a disservice.
@@cyberleish Yeah - I don't know how anyone gets into Arkham now - and I'm guessing that's similar to how I don't know how I would get into the LOTR LCG or Netrunner. There's an overwhelming amount of content! I've advised people to not get into the game unless they're committed to getting the base box and at least one full cycle (and preferably two - Dunwich and Carcosa plus the base box give you a fairly well-rounded collection with an incredible amount of replayability - and, no, I don't think you really need two base boxes). But, as you said, it's quite the undertaking to get there. (As a sidenote, I wouldn't worry about getting the investigator starter decks as I don't find them that impressive - the deckbuilds are pretty wonky and the characters more niche. In contrast, the more recent standalone side scenarios - Blob, Excelsior - are really good!)
@@cyberleish So, yes and no. You can definitely play the 3 scenarios in the base box with just the investigator cards included, but it's going to be more of a struggle than normal. Most players will build decks utilizing their entire collection once they have them. But the base box, even with its limitations, should give you enough of the flavor of the game to give you a better idea of whether getting more is worth the investment. Just know that the card collection gets a lot better/more interesting, the investigators themselves get a lot better/more interesting, and the Dunwich scenarios are generally better/more interesting. :) (In the base box, the first scenario is more of a tutorial and the last scenario is a bit of a miss for a lot of people, me included. In my mind, the Dunwich and Carcosa scenarios are really where the game comes into its own.)
@@cyberleish Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying! Most people that recommend the second base box do it because they also recommend deck builds that have doubles for the sake of deck consistency and predictability. While objectively slightly less optimal, I prefer more variety in my deck builds, and every deluxe expansion/mythos pack gives you more investigator cards to choose from.
@@cyberleish Great point, and really helpful to understand the potential confusion. Arkham is a bit different. In Arkham, you generally start a campaign with access to ALL of your Level 0 cards that fit a certain class or two, depending on the investigator's deck building restrictions. And, generally speaking, as a campaign progresses, the ONLY way to change your deck (not counting cards added to your deck via effects of the campaign's storyline) is by spending experience points (XP) that you earn as you go from scenario to scenario as you accomplish certain tasks. Now, XP is limited so, while you can use 1XP to swap out one Level 0 card for another, you will generally be spending your XP to get better cards that are Level 1 or higher (generally at a rate of 1XP/card level). So, in essence your investigator deck is fairly locked in at the start of a campaign and will change only incrementally scenario to scenario. In this way, the smaller your pool of cards to start a campaign with, the more limited your deck builds will be. Adding a lot more level 0 cards into your card pool before a campaign starts will give you a lot more possibilities.
I've been looking forward to a part II for such a long time!
Love the dedication! Picked up a core set a while back and have been trying to work out which set is a good starting place from there. Can't wait for part 2!
I think the boardgame community is at odds with your view - I’ve taught it to a number of players veterans to boardgames and new gamers alike and they love it!
For the longest time I thought they were saying "corsette" (as in something one wears) not "core set (as in the base rules for a system).
I came here from the Marvel Champions review. When is Part 2 coming out?!?
So thorough. Much appreciated, guys! Is part 2 on the way this year? Would love to see it!
Reviewing The Forgotten Age and beyond was, ironically, forgotten.
Still looking forward to part 2, what with the revised core set etc.
You can't use Dario in Mark Harrigan's Deck...
Yeah, I was like wtf
I mean, you can with Versatile, but even then I'm not sure why you ever would. Dario's not even good in Rogue decks.
I'm dying for part 2!! When's can we expect it? :)
Was the Part 2 video ever made? 😅
Found the answer deep into the comments.
To spare others from the same search: Nope, Part 2 was never made. Probably never will, at this point. It happens 😬
I actually really like the return to stuff ... great video!
Not to mention, a really nice storage solution for your campaign.
I don't quite see the logic of complaining about replayability while also dismissing out of hand the products designed to enhance replayability.
@@brianblessednn Most games don't make you shell even more money out for that replayability.
Carcosa was my favorite cycle, even though we failed on the very last mission. The one with the jungle and snake people, that one was kind of poop if you didn't play with the investigators that came with that cycle. There were a couple of interesting missions and mechanics in it, but the story and most of the new mechanics were rubbish.
Great stuff, looking forward to part 2! Did not think Carcosa was hard, never had to make "meta" campaign choices.
No part two?
I hope you folks are staying safe! Thanks for this review I might take another swing on it with my wife. That second or third scenario in the core set was a bit of a miss for us.
Pick up a deluxe box. The core set difficulty rating just skyrockets. Something like Dunwich, Carcosa, Circle Undone or Dream-eaters. I would not get Forgotten Age as your next campaign for sure.
Where the hell is part 2? :(
Just started out with the game, 1 deluxe box deep currently, with all the mython packs for Dunwich and Carcosa out of stock. The timing on these reviews couldn't be better.
Lunatic is entirely acceptable for the era and Efka is just not familiar with American vernacular and is assuming the Queen's English is the global standard. Although the UK removed the term with the Mental Health Act of 1959, it was not removed from American laws until 2010. A quick Google search on word usage over time shows that usage actually was at its peak in the 1920s.
Arkham Horror TCG made me realize how good an invention tabletop simulator is.
The scenario auto-setup, combined with the ability to copy and paste cards is incredibly handy. Tabletop Simulator got my friend to but the whole series irl too.
AHLCG just got voted best card game 2021 thru a vote by Tabletop Gaming magazine.
Praises! 3 years old is ok as my core is in the mail now. But this vid is spot on what I need at this time. Thanks!
I came here from the top 10 video looking for reasons why the Part 2 wasn't made. Anyone know why?
I will pledge to Patreon once Part 2 comes out lol
I think I felt similarly about the core set and frankly felt having to buy two was a massive con. After so many campaigns I think the core set should have an upgrade pack including just the cards from the core you could deck build with. Hopefully the forthcoming starter character decks will mitigate this a bit but I’ve still not gone further that the core campaign. Dunwich does look excellent though...🤔
Okay the bit where you try to make cheese on toast by hitting a bit of cheese and some bread with a wooden spoon was worth a trip to Patreon my itself :) Keep up the good work.
......wow.
My opinion on your summary: you nailed it! I would love to learn about your opinions of the other cycles. So please continue with the part two!
The only game ever i read guides online on how to beat normally i would never do that but i couldnt stand any more deaths.
“... Then you turn to your deck, and your deck says “Fuck off!” Lol 🤣 So many, many times. Fantastic review guys! Also, DOGGO! 😁
Still waiting for part 2 :))
What a great review, thanks! I wanted to love the core set but it never quite clicked for us. It sounds as though the expansions are much better though, so I'm looking forward to the second video so we can decide which expansion to try!
I'm playing Carcossa for the first time, and solo. My investigator has 4 Mental Trauma going into act 6. My only real complaint about the game is how easy it is to get trauma and how impossible it is to get rid of it.
If you can afford it then add an Elder Sign Amulet to your deck, the +4 sanity would balance out your trauma.
Trauma can be healed
Arkham Horror LCG has got to be one of the most inclusive games there is. They have investigators of many different races, males, females, gay and now a trans character. But yet you seriously bash them from using the word Lunatic and not understanding mental health issues... Can we just try to not search for a reason to get offended for once.
A game can do one thing well (say, gender balance in AH) and another thing poorly (like some of the mental health stuff), you can be happy about the positives and still point out the issues. These are not mutually exclusive stances!
This is another Episode 2 cliffhanger to a never coming Half-Life Episode 3, isn't it?
That description about redoing scenarios not being fun is the problem I had with TIME stories. Fun the first time, and no I have no desire to do it again, or again.
I don't agree with their viewpoint. Replaying the campaigns is still fun as there are loads of different investigators with their own mechanics and the campaign has different story paths that you can choose.
I'm going to guess part 2 is never coming out since it was removed from their collection?
I really like the systems and mechanisms of Arkham but the way that the game handles difficulty is definitely a problem. Even on standard I find the game to be quite punishing, and the campaign structure means that a particularly bad run can tank your entire campaign. I've been playing through Carcosa with my girlfriend but after trying Marvel Champions I don't think she'll go back to Arkham. I personally think MC is much less interesting (and in particular, much less interactive) but it feels a lot more like you're fighting against the villain rather than against the chaos bag.
I picked up Dunwich Legacy on the back of this, although only the base expansion and the first Mythos pack. Looking forward to finding out what my next purchase will be! I don't think I can afford too many of the expansions.
Started supporting on Patreon, I really enjoy your videos and you can see there's lot of work behind them.
Plus, you're both fun to watch.
Plus, monthly audiolog! yu-hu!
While I cannot guarantee how long my monthly support will last, I imagine you run estimations of average length of support duration and can plan on some of those metrics to budget your work out, right?
More money than sense...
Mark can't have Dario in his deck.
Another great prodouction from you guys!! Loved it! Also cannot wait for Part 2!
Was Part 2 abandoned?
Fantastic overview of the game and really entertaining to watch.
I dislike that they don't offer a complimentary set of cards to supplement the core set. Also had some problems with some of the rules explanation. (The skill tests end up not below zero rule, the skill card text refers to who rule, the every card in threat area is interactable by all investigators in that area rule, etc.)
Luckily the internet is there to point them out and I printed them out as a reminder when I next play the game.
But I do really enjoy playing through the core set and the story elements only work to intrigue me. It doesn't get in the way for me at all.
So maybe it's just a game made for me.
26:00 This is how i feel at work.. every day..
If you're a new player and are wondering if you should buy this game then you should know that the new Revised Core Set fixes the issue of having to buy 2 core sets, you just need to buy 1 Revised Core Set. I also don't think you should skip any cycles.
That being said I get the impression based on their attitude that they're bored and annoyed by this game which is not a good thing to have in a review. This could turn off some potential new players. The fact that they still haven't released the supposed Part 2 makes me think that even more. I know that not everyone is gonna like this game but I think that here they fail to look at it objectively. There are other reviews out there that do Arkham Horror much better justice than this one. I'd advise that you don't base your decision about buying this game just on this review.
Any chance at a part 2?
Yeah some of the difficulty levels in Mansions of Madness are not just bad - but obviously not tested at all. There's two scenarios I've experienced (of a total of about 5 in total) which are straight up mathematically not possible with the wrong number of players, which is just insane. Imagine paying $120 for an experience that doesn't work - and also 3 of your friends trusted you, and they had a miserable time as well.
What happened to part 2?
If anyone discovers this video in the future and is wondering - There is not likely to be a part 2 ever. Lots of good reasons, covered in one of their podcasts (24 iirc?)
Enjoy what you find here with these two lovely people and go looking elsewhere for further thoughts! Have a good day :)
What were a couple of the reasons?
@@brisingr29 lovecraft was bad and racist and even though the lead designer is trans and there is plenty of diverse representation in the game including some of the very few queer and non-binary characters in games period - they think a game based on an IP that has evolved for 40+ years and never embraced the racist texts it was based on is still bad. Which I think is a bad take. Reclaiming and rewriting stories is the best way to defeat closed mindedness and xenophobia of all kinds. And this game does it wonderfully.
There are two more campaigns now, in addition to the three that they still have to review :p
As to the "lunatic" being renamed "possessed" shenanigan, I think that would have been a mistake, since "possession" implies that the King in Yellow is some kind of spell or curse, and the people who believe in it are actually victims of that curse. The interesting part in the whole King in Yellow thing is the possibility that we are the mad people involved in an illusion and that the truth is the play and only the play. Of course, that doesn't mean that "lunatic" is the best choice.
They actually implemented that specific change in the new release. Lunatic enemies are now Possessed enemies.
@@QuintiniusVerginix omg
I bought the 2 Core Sets and all the Dunwich Legacy expansions from someone for $40 but have only played this game once!
I got out of Arkham roughly when this video came out because of availability, when I realized they weren't doing mythos packs anymore I decided to get back into it and watch the full review... where's Part 2?
The corset? Oh! The core set!
Also, DOG!
Two minutes in and this already a masterpiece.
If I just get the base expansion (dunnock) Without the extra packs is it worth it?
No, the extra packs form a campaign together. You'd end up with one shoe instead of a pair.
Are you guys ever planning on doing part 2 ? Or is that not happening anymore?
Just watched your AH: LCG review the other day, this is wicked fast turn around time! :')
Great review you two - just a trio of questions:
1.) If you play the Dunwich Horror cycle, is it *still* advisable to have two core sets, or will one do supplemented by the DH Deluxe expansion?
2.) Is it fine to just skip the core set scenarios completely and just dive straight into DH?
3.) Has Elaine got a new Gibson single-cut?
For 1&2, yes.
1) If you want to just dip in and try it, one is enough. But if you plan on fastidiously play an entire campaign I'd think about two 2) Yeah, this should be fine. Maybe play the first scenario with a starter deck from the core set to get a feel for it and abandon it afterwards. 3) That's a 1983 Gibson Challenger! We had it for a while and now fixed it up.
@@NoPunIncluded Ah okay - I have a bunch of cards (Core plus the whole DH cycle) but haven't played it yet - didn't know whether another Core was necessary if I have all the DH cards, that's all. Oh sweet! Bit of a single-cut fan myself, but I'm a PRS fanboy... it's those bird inlays innit ;)
Have actually been trying to start a collection of this the past few weeks, and been wondering if some sets are "skippable" or not. Seems Dunwich falls into the same hole a lot of other LCGs like Netrunner did; feels a bit more like the "completion" of the core set, allowing the mechanics space to breath when there are alternate ways they can be applied with more card options.
Looking forward to the next vid.
Yeah, totally agree with that. I can't imagine building or upgrading a character without using a bunch of player cards from Dunwich. And even after all these cycles, Ashcan Pete is still one of the best characters for single-handed solo play.
Eager for part two! I have a back-order on the last (hard to get) few Dunwich scenarios, and am keen to hear your best of the rest vid! X
I came here for Arkham Horror and stayed for the Courtney Barnette reference.
Pretty sure Mark Harrigan can't take Dario. He can take Guardian cards and Tactics. Dario El-Amin is neither...
Also, you said you place clues on the Act.. Which you don't.. You spend them from your Play Area.
Still waiting for the review of part 2 cycles, exspecially Forgotten Age
19:26 Spoiler alert: the Yellow King is actually Constantin Valdor. Just ask Games Workshop. ; )
I misheard core set for corset during the first half of the video lol
Man I wish I could get all of arkham horror the card game... I only have the core and a few of the second set. Wish they would reprint a lot of it.
Did part 2 ever get made? Can't seem to find it :-/
Where can I get those cute dice trays you use for the tokens? are they 3D printed?
Your opinions on this game matched mine. The core set is an atrocious introduction, but if you give an actual campaign a chance it will richly reward.