I can appreciate one little comment in this video “loads of experienced players fighting vehemently to keep aspects of the game that limit new players.” I am a relatively younger (40) hex and counter war gamer. I find this sentiment among most players of games first developed in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. It’s 2024, while these games are fantastic in their own right, there’s newer ways to arrange information in a way that will entice people to play. Many of these rulebooks, 18xx included, go off the basis that everyone learns information by having one linear kind of brain and not a spatial learner. And when you’re a spatial learner, long books of text are tough to get through.
Paul is correct and the depth of decision space compared to rules overhead is a lot lower than most think. Most 18xx games are a lot easier to learn than say Lisboa
Definitely agree with Paul and Jonathan. A couple rounds in and you will know the game. All the weight and difficulty come from the decisions you and your fellow gamers make. I love game like that. Irish Gauge, Ride the Rails are there too.
Experienced player here, so take this for what's it's worth. I know an intro video isn't for me, even if I'm honestly happy to have watched it! So thanks! To the comment about games playing out in much the same way once you get over the initial flush of excitement - I do think there's some truth in that. I'd also say, however, that there tends to be a bit of a dip. It goes from (1) Crazy excitement! to (2) Oh, this feels a bit samey; I think I have it pretty much down, and then back up to (3) Oh, oh, I see - I didn't think you could do that! From there, the excitement comes from the multitude of variables interacting with each other. Even when you think you know what's coming, the details of _how_ it plays out are wild enough to be exciting - just in a different sort of way. I don't want to oversell this point, but for those interested enough to stick with a title past "the dip," there are rewards!
The different games have such different dynamics with many detailed differences between them, that some of them will suit some people more than others. I found the 22 family a bit to be un interactive and puzzly so that once I "solved" them it did feel samey. With 30 & 46 they are familiar and I can mess about trying things out, especially since we can knock out 46 in a couple of hours. Also the "never buy 2 shares" thing is not a hard and fast rule, it's more when can I take the risk of owning more than one share.
Great video! It’s great seeing your opinions on all the different titles you tried, plus the rulebook discussion. I’m also happy that you two seem to have similar taste in 18xx games as me (I only played 1846 once and didn’t particularly enjoy it, although a lot of people still seem to love it).
I've played 18xx over 150 times. This is a great summary. This is the mountain climbing of boardgaming. It makes no sense to spend your free time with something so taxing, but it's so exciting!
Oh, and regarding the dip in interest after getting to know the game a little bit better - this depends on the group: after a while players will be able to read if they're on the firm path to a defeat and will start doing wild things again to shake things up.
From an 18xx fanatic, I think this review was very fair and an accurate depiction of a lot of the amazing feelings you get when you first crack the door to 18xx. It also helped remind me of where my head was at after my first couple plays and where my non-18xx friends are now. Anyway, I'm definitely a fan of your vids. Thanks for the TIME you must have had to spend on this one. Getting a single 18xx game learned and played is a tremendous commitment. Also, thanks for a fun POV into 18xx that we 18xxers often forget as we tend to get engulfed in our own perspectives and jargon.
I usually look at board game videos to select games to buy. I usually never look at the same video twice for obvious reasons. I am currently looking at this video for a third time and I really enjoy it. They really really make quality videos!
I'm a newbie to 18xx, but I felt like the mention of 1846 did it a disservice. I originally thought the operational focus would be a downside, but it ended up being a better gateway game for my group of euro gamers. Everyone had the mindset of "I want to build great companies" and 1846 lets you do that in the 18xx style. It's also short by 18xx standards. A first 18xx experience with company dumps or train rush bankruptcy might have scared them off the whole system. I'm planning to show the group 18Ches and/or 1830 when we finally get out of covid enough to get a big group game night.
Yep, as usual when introducing a new game, its success or not is generally as much about knowing the taste and experiences of your game group as as the game itself.
Lol, 1817 just sitting quietly around in a beginner video. That is evil. 1862 and 1849 would have been nice guest villains as well. Fantastic review, thanks for doing this.
This was wonderful! I'm an "experienced watcher" of 18xx games, because I haven't yet found group to play. Please know how much I love and value the quality of the work you are doing. I'm going to go put my NPI shirt on now :)
We had a great time with 18Chesapeake as a first 18xx. It was easy to teach ourselves from the very clear, short rules (though graphics-light, as you said). Anyone who has learned a heavier euro could easily deal with this. Try it!
What's a heavier euro in your oppinion? Does Terra Mystica or Terraforming Mars count? And if so, would you recommend to jump directly into 18Chesapeake or should there be another "in-between" game to play first?
Honestly I think a great intro is Power Grid. I’ve heard it said that it’s the most non train, train game. I love 18xx by the way. Have about five in my collection.
@@imilegofreak terra mystica is a lot heavier than terraforming mars if you only have played terra mystica you are more than able to play an 18xx but start with the basic donc start with something like 1862 get experience first
This is it, this is the best board game review ever made. This is equal to, and perhaps surpasses, anything SU&SD have ever done, and I mean that as the highest praise for both NPI and SU&SD. Thank you so much for putting this together, Efka & Elaine & accomplices.
@@sluggo562 Some people go in dry, some find a group through one of several Discord groups. You might want to check out this one, it seems to be the most active and welcoming: discord.gg/vmhZp5K
@@mgorn I don't mean to be contrarian, but I find 18xx.games (or any digital implementation) to be the worst place for a beginner to start. Many of the aspects of the 18xx system have been automated where a beginner will frequently miss those things. Not to mention, there's much more enjoyment to be had with an in-person experience that can be crucial for its uptake.
@@CreepySilences beginners teaching beginners are more likely to make even more mistakes. All the automation is logged in the text window--if you scroll up you can read exactly what happened. There is only 1 thing that is truly a trick-spot, and that's how to sell your private companies since the option is off the bottom of the screen and you have to know to scroll down to it.
Wow!!! That was absolutely incredible. It held my full attention from start to finish. Didn't miss an angle and wasn't afraid to tackle the challenging bits (and did so in an engaging and respectful way). Thank you so much for putting this together and sharing it with us!
I think this is the best video you guys have ever produced. I've always been marginally aware of this series but I had no idea it went back to the 70's. I really appreciate your dissection of the moral issues behind the theme that are normally glossed over.
Playing 18xx since i found 1829 in a nice little boardgame store at the age of 12 and hearing you saying it's the pinnacle of complexity makes me.....somehow a proud trainkeeper.
Apart from a unique genre and other characteristics, 18XX really has a well balanced pace in tabletop experience. You do not wait too long in between each action (unless you manage no companies). You do not wait too long only to find out you do not have much meaningful things to do. The game progresses steadily for each round to feel a bit more complicated than the previous. Of course it depends on who you play with. Sometimes you group builds a good railway empire and network with far reach. Sometimes you group compete so fiercely by placing their stations so close. Sometimes you group advances so fast that the game ends before you even realise. It is a good game which allows possibilities. There can be optimal strategy but that is not quite important here.
Closest I’ve gotten my friends to 18XX is “Trick of the Rails” - a kickstarter card game that still uses stock, but it is a tiny box, fast card game, and not a map-tile kind of game.
It took 3-4 full games before I fully grasped the how to win of this genre. My favorite genre now for three years. Well worth the investment for board gamers into heavy strategy.
This video is really wonderful. I've long been curious about this branch in our hobby and this take was thorough, informative & enjoyable. Props, guys!
I just wanted to say that I bought 1830 and played with my girlfriend and a couple of friends. One of them loves boardgames, just like me, while both my girlfriend and his just kind of play for the social interaction. The four of us absolutely loved it and even the girls were excited to meet again next weekend to play and said this one was great. Thanks for the amazing video!
Superb, NPI you’ve really gone above and beyond here. I can only imagine the time and effort that must have gone into tackling not just a game but this series. You did it with the depth and quality that is synonymous with NPI while also keeping the comedy and social consciousness that makes me hope that board gaming is moving in a positive direction.
Great video, thanks for posting this. I printed and crafted a copy of '1889 Shikoku Railways' and when I got to the rulebook my brain melted and the whole project 'derailed'. I know this video wasn't intended as tutorial, but now a lot of the pieces seem to click into place better. I'm willing to give it another go. (Also very interesting to hear it may get a new KS edition.)
Many thanks for this video, and thanks to the commenters who mentioned 18xx.games! I'm in the early phases of my first 18xx game on there and I'm really looking forward to seeing how it plays out!
The interesting thing about 18XX: there is NO luck other than determining initial player order. So in theory, since you have perfect knowledge of all the game info, if you win or lose it is ALL on your ability to cajole, influence or read other players to make your best possible response.
Well. That was an entertaining video. I am now very much secure in the knowledge that I never, ever want to play one of these games. I am fairly sure I checked out on the rules and heard white noise for a few segments before tuning back in. You made it as digestible as possible, but it all just sounded like gobbledygook to me. I'm sure these are fascinating creatures to some people but not for me I think - good job putting in all the work for this though was a very interesting watch about a part of the board gaming world I knew little about.
I agree. The video is wonderful for letting me know what's involved in an 18XX game. And because of that clarity I know I will never, ever, want to play one.
1830 is brilliant but it does go on too long. I'm personally interested in 1889 Shikoku and just recently the Kickstarted Railways of the Lost Atlas which differentiates itself with a tight 4-6 rounds, a super neat art style and a randomised map and set-up. The postman with the poo sandwich line was charming!
Thank you for making this video. It is the best introduction to 18xx I have been able to find on the internet. I preordered 18Chesapeake on your recommendation.
Such a wide-ranging, interesting insightful well-produced review of so many intensely complex games! It’s obvious the incredible time and effort you’ve put in, very impressive! I’m a gamer but was clear from nearly the start I’m never going to play these games and I STILL watched the whole piece because the story and discussion was so compelling.
Amazing review and expose on 18xx games. I definitely fall into the category of knowing about it but mostly ignoring it. I tend to gravitate toward other games so getting a primer on this was helpful. I'd definitely more interested in trying one of these now.
I have to aplaud your work and thank you for introducing the concepts of play for this family of games, It's just so astoundingly intimidating! I for one am marveled at how much work you did put in this series and how well digested the rules are for us to understand if this game is for us or not. I am pretty sure there must be people who loves crunchy and demanding games like this, but I am not one of them and my group definetively would not be all too happy to invest time in this type of games. They are simply not for us and now I have a clear picture of why I will steer clear from them. I am still marveled at the overarching complexity and how an economic simulator like this gets to emulate stock market this close to reality. Thank you for making this video and putting the work tomake it happen. I am for sure going to join your patreon because this amount of work is worth rewarding.
Just an FYI. There is white noise in the background of when Elaine talks about the games in the end. That can be filtered out with a free program like Audacity
Guys. I have an idea which I think will appeal to many gamers. Why don't you do something similar to 18xx video but with a focus on specific designers. For example you could delve into the world of Lacerda games presenting games as a summary and a general feel and some bio background on author. Or Phil Eklunds hardcore games like pax series or bios. Or any other author worth attention. Cheers
awesome video! I just started playing 1830 and I love it! Its hard to find these games especially in India but I am really looking forward to acquiring a few in the coming time.
The original 1830 computer game from Avalon Hill is one of the few computer games they made that's still playable today. The AI is brutal in its collusion against you, and at first you want to rage at how much they screw you over turn after turn. But in the end this is what makes it a challenging puzzle that you *can* defeat once you work out the tricks. It also has a surprisingly playable random map generation algorithm that makes you rethink about which companies are the best to buy into at the beginning.
I would love to see Cole Wehreg (or someone else equally talented) tackle this system and put out a game that is trimmed, prettier and that takes the time to tackle some of the historical and social history of railroad construction.
32:40 note that DTG claims 7-11 months but hasn't actively produced a game for the public in years. Many people have orders over 7 years old at this point. It's been taken up by Golden Spike Games and AAG mainly, but I don't think either do 1889.
@@NoPunIncluded Yeah unfortunately I asked John Templin to change or update that 7-11 month thing like 5 years ago when he just stopped making them as they mislead new players, but he flat out refused. It's still there, still confusing and frustrating people. It's too bad because DTG was an incredible service before 18xx started getting big these past few years, but now it's doing a disservice to the community.
Very nice review. I've played these games several hundred times, many differing variants of which I own nearly 20. They are not for the weak of heart for sure, but they can be a lot of fun....
I really enjoy 18xx games. I have around 18 games in the series ranging from 18Chesapeake to 18OE. I just received my copy of 18India by GMT games. That game is very unique in that trains do not rust, so you can trade them in. Also, at the start of the game you are dealt a random hand of stock certificates. the remainder are then laid out, face up, in 3 rows. A player can then only buy them right to left of 1 row in a stock round.
I've never played an 18XX game, but I have played a tonne of their main rival in the "long train game" market, Empire Builder. Empire Builder and all its family of crayon rails games seem a little more approachable than 18XX, based on this video.
Now I have to get the games and a group of players that want to spend time playing with them without worrying about the 19andemic. Great video as always! You always make my wallet bleed!!!
I will almost certainly never ever play an 18xx game. But even to me this video was amazingly interesting. Thanks for making it, and making it so well.
Great video! I hope the price tag of 18xx games doesn't scare off too many people--1817's $200 cost is something of an outlier. In fact, all of the other 18xx games seen in this video retail for $100 or less!
This is true for OOP, but most in print games are 60-130USD (not counting shipping which can hurt depending where in the world you are). There are exceptions, but most recent mass produced copies are bringing prices down a bit.
I have also seen some outrageous prices for out of print titles. That applies to other board game genres as well, and is why I specified "retail". I suppose I could have been more clear by saying something like "when in print, they cost $100 or less".
Yeah, GMT has three 18xx titles on preorder for around $50 with an average price of $80 at retail. Should've at least mentioned that in the video as a counter point to the $200 1817.
I got my train nut dad into boardgames by giving him 1830 for his birthday. Soon he'd discovered there was more out there, and he bought *everything*. My personal favourite is 18EU, which plays pretty quickly (relative speaking of course) while feeling far more epic than that. It starts by auctioning a whopping 15 minor companies which (unlike privates) do run trains, and can later merge into major (regular) companies. Recently we got my 11 year-old son into Steam Over Holland, the latest of many, many attempts at an 18xx game in Netherland. My son loves it and is excellent at it, once even beating my dad (now a veteran with decades of experience) in a one-on-one game because my dad foolishly thought he could operate 3 companies at the same time. (That kind of hubris deserves to be punished, of course.) I think this might mean Steam Over Holland could be a fairly suitable beginner game. Its only real downside is that the title doesn't start with '18'. Your version of 1830 looks gorgeous, by the way. Totally different from the various copies I've played. It's worth noting that most 18xx games are not as aggressive as 1830, which is among the most aggressive games in the genre. For a completely opposite experience, try the very German 1835. Also, in our group, it's not remotely true that nothing happens during the last couple of operating round; we keep optimising routes until the very end, trying to squeeze that last drop of money out of our 5-train + D-train combination, frying our brain in the process. Running two permanent trains per company is frequently key to victory and a splitting headache.
Informative videp! Now I can't wait for an 18xx to have a system that simulates the country-wide rail worker strikes that happened every decade after the Civil War in the US.
Have you played Irish Gauge or Ride the Rails from Capstone Games? Those are simplified train games with a significantly cut down play time. I'm wondering if they would be a good entry way to get players familiar with 18xx mechanics.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Bessie timestamps:
0:34
5:03
12:57
14:55
15:37 DADDY PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!
26:00
30:48
38:55
I can appreciate one little comment in this video “loads of experienced players fighting vehemently to keep aspects of the game that limit new players.” I am a relatively younger (40) hex and counter war gamer. I find this sentiment among most players of games first developed in the 60s, 70s, and 80s. It’s 2024, while these games are fantastic in their own right, there’s newer ways to arrange information in a way that will entice people to play. Many of these rulebooks, 18xx included, go off the basis that everyone learns information by having one linear kind of brain and not a spatial learner. And when you’re a spatial learner, long books of text are tough to get through.
What a fascinating look at a group of games I will never play
They're worth trying at least once if you enjoy heavier euro type games at all
Paul is correct and the depth of decision space compared to rules overhead is a lot lower than most think. Most 18xx games are a lot easier to learn than say Lisboa
Definitely agree with Paul and Jonathan. A couple rounds in and you will know the game. All the weight and difficulty come from the decisions you and your fellow gamers make. I love game like that. Irish Gauge, Ride the Rails are there too.
Experienced player here, so take this for what's it's worth. I know an intro video isn't for me, even if I'm honestly happy to have watched it! So thanks! To the comment about games playing out in much the same way once you get over the initial flush of excitement - I do think there's some truth in that. I'd also say, however, that there tends to be a bit of a dip. It goes from (1) Crazy excitement! to (2) Oh, this feels a bit samey; I think I have it pretty much down, and then back up to (3) Oh, oh, I see - I didn't think you could do that! From there, the excitement comes from the multitude of variables interacting with each other. Even when you think you know what's coming, the details of _how_ it plays out are wild enough to be exciting - just in a different sort of way. I don't want to oversell this point, but for those interested enough to stick with a title past "the dip," there are rewards!
The different games have such different dynamics with many detailed differences between them, that some of them will suit some people more than others. I found the 22 family a bit to be un interactive and puzzly so that once I "solved" them it did feel samey. With 30 & 46 they are familiar and I can mess about trying things out, especially since we can knock out 46 in a couple of hours.
Also the "never buy 2 shares" thing is not a hard and fast rule, it's more when can I take the risk of owning more than one share.
It's samey as Chess is samey right, but chess has been played for hundreds of years.
I'm watching this while I'm on a train. I feel thematically relevant !
You get 2 bonus points when scoring!
Great video! It’s great seeing your opinions on all the different titles you tried, plus the rulebook discussion. I’m also happy that you two seem to have similar taste in 18xx games as me (I only played 1846 once and didn’t particularly enjoy it, although a lot of people still seem to love it).
I've played 18xx over 150 times. This is a great summary. This is the mountain climbing of boardgaming. It makes no sense to spend your free time with something so taxing, but it's so exciting!
Oh, and regarding the dip in interest after getting to know the game a little bit better - this depends on the group: after a while players will be able to read if they're on the firm path to a defeat and will start doing wild things again to shake things up.
@@BCKBCK or someone comes back to the group after playing with new people at a con--man, will that shake things up!
From an 18xx fanatic, I think this review was very fair and an accurate depiction of a lot of the amazing feelings you get when you first crack the door to 18xx.
It also helped remind me of where my head was at after my first couple plays and where my non-18xx friends are now.
Anyway, I'm definitely a fan of your vids. Thanks for the TIME you must have had to spend on this one. Getting a single 18xx game learned and played is a tremendous commitment. Also, thanks for a fun POV into 18xx that we 18xxers often forget as we tend to get engulfed in our own perspectives and jargon.
I usually look at board game videos to select games to buy. I usually never look at the same video twice for obvious reasons. I am currently looking at this video for a third time and I really enjoy it. They really really make quality videos!
I'm a newbie to 18xx, but I felt like the mention of 1846 did it a disservice. I originally thought the operational focus would be a downside, but it ended up being a better gateway game for my group of euro gamers. Everyone had the mindset of "I want to build great companies" and 1846 lets you do that in the 18xx style. It's also short by 18xx standards. A first 18xx experience with company dumps or train rush bankruptcy might have scared them off the whole system. I'm planning to show the group 18Ches and/or 1830 when we finally get out of covid enough to get a big group game night.
Yep, as usual when introducing a new game, its success or not is generally as much about knowing the taste and experiences of your game group as as the game itself.
You might try 18CZ too. It’s another run good game, hardly any stock shenanigans.
Lol, 1817 just sitting quietly around in a beginner video. That is evil. 1862 and 1849 would have been nice guest villains as well. Fantastic review, thanks for doing this.
Ha! Well said Faris. 1849 is my great gaming devilish delight. Hopefully this video invites the curious to sit down and give it all a try.
I surprisingly loved 1862 as my second completed game. But the learning curve was already steep from having one under my belt.
This was wonderful! I'm an "experienced watcher" of 18xx games, because I haven't yet found group to play. Please know how much I love and value the quality of the work you are doing. I'm going to go put my NPI shirt on now :)
Any chance you’re in SE Florida? We’re desperately seeking gamers to add to our group.
The internet needed this video! I’ve been curious about 18XX for a long time and this was a great overview, thank you!
We had a great time with 18Chesapeake as a first 18xx. It was easy to teach ourselves from the very clear, short rules (though graphics-light, as you said). Anyone who has learned a heavier euro could easily deal with this. Try it!
What's a heavier euro in your oppinion? Does Terra Mystica or Terraforming Mars count? And if so, would you recommend to jump directly into 18Chesapeake or should there be another "in-between" game to play first?
Honestly I think a great intro is Power Grid. I’ve heard it said that it’s the most non train, train game. I love 18xx by the way. Have about five in my collection.
@@imilegofreak terra mystica is a lot heavier than terraforming mars if you only have played terra mystica you are more than able to play an 18xx but start with the basic donc start with something like 1862 get experience first
I've watched this several times, and it is just a fantastic board game video! One of the best. Kudos on the great work!
This is it, this is the best board game review ever made. This is equal to, and perhaps surpasses, anything SU&SD have ever done, and I mean that as the highest praise for both NPI and SU&SD. Thank you so much for putting this together, Efka & Elaine & accomplices.
SU&SD's Go review is very close in my opinion :)
Very fair and reasonable video. It's a shame you made no mention of 18xx.games, though. Particularly with the bit about TTS at the end there.
Seconded! 18xx.games is THE place for anyone interested in trying out 18xx for the first time. I know because I did and it is excellent.
Oh wow, look at that. Is there a discord or something for voicechat or people just go in dry?
@@sluggo562 Some people go in dry, some find a group through one of several Discord groups. You might want to check out this one, it seems to be the most active and welcoming: discord.gg/vmhZp5K
@@mgorn I don't mean to be contrarian, but I find 18xx.games (or any digital implementation) to be the worst place for a beginner to start. Many of the aspects of the 18xx system have been automated where a beginner will frequently miss those things. Not to mention, there's much more enjoyment to be had with an in-person experience that can be crucial for its uptake.
@@CreepySilences beginners teaching beginners are more likely to make even more mistakes. All the automation is logged in the text window--if you scroll up you can read exactly what happened. There is only 1 thing that is truly a trick-spot, and that's how to sell your private companies since the option is off the bottom of the screen and you have to know to scroll down to it.
Wow!!! That was absolutely incredible. It held my full attention from start to finish. Didn't miss an angle and wasn't afraid to tackle the challenging bits (and did so in an engaging and respectful way). Thank you so much for putting this together and sharing it with us!
I think this is the best video you guys have ever produced. I've always been marginally aware of this series but I had no idea it went back to the 70's. I really appreciate your dissection of the moral issues behind the theme that are normally glossed over.
Playing 18xx since i found 1829 in a nice little boardgame store at the age of 12 and hearing you saying it's the pinnacle of complexity makes me.....somehow a proud trainkeeper.
This might be your best video. I will never tough an 18XX game but learning the basics of them beyond just "trains" was fascinating.
You prove to be among the best, time and time again. Thank you.
BTW you've rekindled my love for 1830, which I last played 25 years ago.
Apart from a unique genre and other characteristics, 18XX really has a well balanced pace in tabletop experience. You do not wait too long in between each action (unless you manage no companies). You do not wait too long only to find out you do not have much meaningful things to do. The game progresses steadily for each round to feel a bit more complicated than the previous. Of course it depends on who you play with. Sometimes you group builds a good railway empire and network with far reach. Sometimes you group compete so fiercely by placing their stations so close. Sometimes you group advances so fast that the game ends before you even realise. It is a good game which allows possibilities. There can be optimal strategy but that is not quite important here.
Really fascinating deep dive on this part of the industry I had no idea about!
Closest I’ve gotten my friends to 18XX is “Trick of the Rails” - a kickstarter card game that still uses stock, but it is a tiny box, fast card game, and not a map-tile kind of game.
I remember playing 1830 Railroads and Robber Barons the PC game back in the 90s, it was amazing. Anyone else remember that?
Still play it from time to time. Random boards is probably the one thing giving this PC iteration a lot more longevity.
@@shepherdsgamingrun I havent played it in years maybe I should boot it up again!
It took 3-4 full games before I fully grasped the how to win of this genre. My favorite genre now for three years. Well worth the investment for board gamers into heavy strategy.
Thank you for all of the time and effort you put into diving into the 18xx genre and making the video. Entertaining and informative, as always!
"Welcome to Elaine's guide on how to pass Go and not go directly to jail." Absolute gold.
This video is really wonderful. I've long been curious about this branch in our hobby and this take was thorough, informative & enjoyable. Props, guys!
I just wanted to say that I bought 1830 and played with my girlfriend and a couple of friends. One of them loves boardgames, just like me, while both my girlfriend and his just kind of play for the social interaction. The four of us absolutely loved it and even the girls were excited to meet again next weekend to play and said this one was great. Thanks for the amazing video!
1830 was my intro to 18xx and I loved it. lol I now have a copy of it and hope to get more over the years.
You two are the MVP's of boardgame reviews.
Thanks for doing this, Efka and Elaine. Wonderfully done.
Superb, NPI you’ve really gone above and beyond here. I can only imagine the time and effort that must have gone into tackling not just a game but this series. You did it with the depth and quality that is synonymous with NPI while also keeping the comedy and social consciousness that makes me hope that board gaming is moving in a positive direction.
Great video, very much appreciated. I've always wanted to try 18xx and this is the best intro video I've seen to date. Many thanks.
Great video, thanks for posting this. I printed and crafted a copy of '1889 Shikoku Railways' and when I got to the rulebook my brain melted and the whole project 'derailed'. I know this video wasn't intended as tutorial, but now a lot of the pieces seem to click into place better. I'm willing to give it another go. (Also very interesting to hear it may get a new KS edition.)
Glad it helped! That rulebook is not friendly.
I now know why my friend, the chartered accountant, wants me to play these games.
Great review! I've always wanted to know more about the 18XX games.
Many thanks for this video, and thanks to the commenters who mentioned 18xx.games! I'm in the early phases of my first 18xx game on there and I'm really looking forward to seeing how it plays out!
Just have to comment, this is the best board game video made so far in the history of internet
The interesting thing about 18XX: there is NO luck other than determining initial player order. So in theory, since you have perfect knowledge of all the game info, if you win or lose it is ALL on your ability to cajole, influence or read other players to make your best possible response.
Well. That was an entertaining video. I am now very much secure in the knowledge that I never, ever want to play one of these games. I am fairly sure I checked out on the rules and heard white noise for a few segments before tuning back in. You made it as digestible as possible, but it all just sounded like gobbledygook to me. I'm sure these are fascinating creatures to some people but not for me I think - good job putting in all the work for this though was a very interesting watch about a part of the board gaming world I knew little about.
Because Of Dragons I felt exhausted just watching the video. Not for me.
I feel similarly. I mean, I find the arithmetic in Power Grid too tedious. Seems like a bad sign.
I agree. The video is wonderful for letting me know what's involved in an 18XX game. And because of that clarity I know I will never, ever, want to play one.
1830 is brilliant but it does go on too long. I'm personally interested in 1889 Shikoku and just recently the Kickstarted Railways of the Lost Atlas which differentiates itself with a tight 4-6 rounds, a super neat art style and a randomised map and set-up. The postman with the poo sandwich line was charming!
Thank you for making this video. It is the best introduction to 18xx I have been able to find on the internet. I preordered 18Chesapeake on your recommendation.
Great work guys, will you still be doing your annual kickstarter?
Remarkable. It's like being introduced to Baklava for the first time, only having to eat an entire pan of it.
Great video! Thanks. I've only played 18CZ and look forward to playing more 18XX games in the future.
Love your videos! Your recommendations have put several great games on my shelf
I felt like a genius learning Brass. This knocked me down a few pegs
brass was my anti chamber before 18xx
Almost 60 plays done on 18xx.games, everyone should play there! Amazing site.
Respect this, a ton of work and a real down to earth review!
Such a wide-ranging, interesting insightful well-produced review of so many intensely complex games! It’s obvious the incredible time and effort you’ve put in, very impressive! I’m a gamer but was clear from nearly the start I’m never going to play these games and I STILL watched the whole piece because the story and discussion was so compelling.
This video convinced me to try 1830 and really helped me learn to play it.
thanks!
Amazing review and expose on 18xx games. I definitely fall into the category of knowing about it but mostly ignoring it. I tend to gravitate toward other games so getting a primer on this was helpful. I'd definitely more interested in trying one of these now.
Now please make some videos about the complex world of wargaming :) This video is a great value to the community!
I have to aplaud your work and thank you for introducing the concepts of play for this family of games, It's just so astoundingly intimidating!
I for one am marveled at how much work you did put in this series and how well digested the rules are for us to understand if this game is for us or not.
I am pretty sure there must be people who loves crunchy and demanding games like this, but I am not one of them and my group definetively would not be all too happy to invest time in this type of games.
They are simply not for us and now I have a clear picture of why I will steer clear from them.
I am still marveled at the overarching complexity and how an economic simulator like this gets to emulate stock market this close to reality.
Thank you for making this video and putting the work tomake it happen.
I am for sure going to join your patreon because this amount of work is worth rewarding.
Top notch review as always. Looking forward for the next installment in ' Everything Arkham Horror '
Just an FYI. There is white noise in the background of when Elaine talks about the games in the end. That can be filtered out with a free program like Audacity
I'm absolutely loving the awareness regarding the board games themes as of late!
This is the best work you two have done. Full stop.
Another brilliant look into a genre of board games I've heard much about but haven't had the courage to try! Perhaps soon I will...
Guys. I have an idea which I think will appeal to many gamers. Why don't you do something similar to 18xx video but with a focus on specific designers. For example you could delve into the world of Lacerda games presenting games as a summary and a general feel and some bio background on author. Or Phil Eklunds hardcore games like pax series or bios. Or any other author worth attention. Cheers
awesome video! I just started playing 1830 and I love it! Its hard to find these games especially in India but I am really looking forward to acquiring a few in the coming time.
Piyush, 1853 and the upcoming 1947 from Aleph Game Studio are both set in India.
I would recommend caution with 1853. It's very much the marmite of 18xx, a lot of people including myself found it overly long and dull
Finally found time to watch this... amazing
Thanks for this vidéo. I was Lucky to begin with 1860 then I bought 1825 Unit 1/2/3 and 1829 mainline. Each game was outstanding...
The original 1830 computer game from Avalon Hill is one of the few computer games they made that's still playable today. The AI is brutal in its collusion against you, and at first you want to rage at how much they screw you over turn after turn. But in the end this is what makes it a challenging puzzle that you *can* defeat once you work out the tricks. It also has a surprisingly playable random map generation algorithm that makes you rethink about which companies are the best to buy into at the beginning.
I would love to see Cole Wehreg (or someone else equally talented) tackle this system and put out a game that is trimmed, prettier and that takes the time to tackle some of the historical and social history of railroad construction.
32:40 note that DTG claims 7-11 months but hasn't actively produced a game for the public in years. Many people have orders over 7 years old at this point. It's been taken up by Golden Spike Games and AAG mainly, but I don't think either do 1889.
Useful information! Golden Spike does seem to list 1889 but the wait time on their website is even longer.
@@NoPunIncluded Yeah unfortunately I asked John Templin to change or update that 7-11 month thing like 5 years ago when he just stopped making them as they mislead new players, but he flat out refused. It's still there, still confusing and frustrating people. It's too bad because DTG was an incredible service before 18xx started getting big these past few years, but now it's doing a disservice to the community.
Good on you for the Glenn Miller background music.
@Abizaas ua-cam.com/video/V2aj0zhXlLA/v-deo.html
@Abizaas Music near 5:30 I'm pretty sure is just stock music.
“Bring in dosh by the caboose load” is my favourite UA-cam line of 2020.
Very nice review. I've played these games several hundred times, many differing variants of which I own nearly 20. They are not for the weak of heart for sure, but they can be a lot of fun....
I really enjoy 18xx games. I have around 18 games in the series ranging from 18Chesapeake to 18OE. I just received my copy of 18India by GMT games. That game is very unique in that trains do not rust, so you can trade them in. Also, at the start of the game you are dealt a random hand of stock certificates. the remainder are then laid out, face up, in 3 rows. A player can then only buy them right to left of 1 row in a stock round.
18OE... you are a brave soul
Thanks for another deep and thoughtful review
Jesus, I watched because of those fancy chips. I stayed because of that crazy rule sheet.
I started watching a different video, then I realized Bessie will almost certainly appear somewhere in this one.
We just let her roam and sort out her own cameos.
Oh no! I think my friends would be really overwhelmed by these game yet I still wanna play them. Especially 1844 | 1854, cuz I'm swiss and stuff.
Yeah, definitely don't start with that one.
Where do you live?
This is one of those videos that stay around for a very long time.
This was an incredibly thorough, interesting and even handed review. Well done!
I saw those keyforge decks under your monitor Efka!
I've never played an 18XX game, but I have played a tonne of their main rival in the "long train game" market, Empire Builder.
Empire Builder and all its family of crayon rails games seem a little more approachable than 18XX, based on this video.
How do I nominate the 15:37 time stamp as the greatest 5-second long edit in NPI history? I’m dying over here.
Great video. Thank you!
I'm not longer allowed at the public library due to hostile dumping.
1844/1854 is the worst rulebook you've ever read in a professionally produced game, eh? Wanna play High Frontier 2nd Edition with me? :D
Explaining how to commit fraud in a board game was not something i expected.
Never did I think I would see the state of Michigan multiple times in a NPI review
Now I have to get the games and a group of players that want to spend time playing with them without worrying about the 19andemic. Great video as always! You always make my wallet bleed!!!
Awesome Review! Does anybody know what jetons/pokerchips they are using? Name? Company?
Nevermind, those are the Roxley Iron Clays
I love the bit at 27:13
I will almost certainly never ever play an 18xx game. But even to me this video was amazingly interesting. Thanks for making it, and making it so well.
I see so after I become a master of Arkwright I should move onto 19xx
NPI is getting better and better, thank you guys!! I have been in the hobby for about 8 years now, and was always wondering about these.Amazing video!
Nice video in the spirit of SUSD! I enjoyed it.
Great video! I hope the price tag of 18xx games doesn't scare off too many people--1817's $200 cost is something of an outlier. In fact, all of the other 18xx games seen in this video retail for $100 or less!
I think it depends on availability and definitely not all titles are readily available. I've seen some out of print titles go for much more than $200.
This is true for OOP, but most in print games are 60-130USD (not counting shipping which can hurt depending where in the world you are). There are exceptions, but most recent mass produced copies are bringing prices down a bit.
I have also seen some outrageous prices for out of print titles. That applies to other board game genres as well, and is why I specified "retail". I suppose I could have been more clear by saying something like "when in print, they cost $100 or less".
Yeah, GMT has three 18xx titles on preorder for around $50 with an average price of $80 at retail. Should've at least mentioned that in the video as a counter point to the $200 1817.
I got my train nut dad into boardgames by giving him 1830 for his birthday. Soon he'd discovered there was more out there, and he bought *everything*.
My personal favourite is 18EU, which plays pretty quickly (relative speaking of course) while feeling far more epic than that. It starts by auctioning a whopping 15 minor companies which (unlike privates) do run trains, and can later merge into major (regular) companies.
Recently we got my 11 year-old son into Steam Over Holland, the latest of many, many attempts at an 18xx game in Netherland. My son loves it and is excellent at it, once even beating my dad (now a veteran with decades of experience) in a one-on-one game because my dad foolishly thought he could operate 3 companies at the same time. (That kind of hubris deserves to be punished, of course.) I think this might mean Steam Over Holland could be a fairly suitable beginner game. Its only real downside is that the title doesn't start with '18'.
Your version of 1830 looks gorgeous, by the way. Totally different from the various copies I've played. It's worth noting that most 18xx games are not as aggressive as 1830, which is among the most aggressive games in the genre. For a completely opposite experience, try the very German 1835.
Also, in our group, it's not remotely true that nothing happens during the last couple of operating round; we keep optimising routes until the very end, trying to squeeze that last drop of money out of our 5-train + D-train combination, frying our brain in the process. Running two permanent trains per company is frequently key to victory and a splitting headache.
Informative videp! Now I can't wait for an 18xx to have a system that simulates the country-wide rail worker strikes that happened every decade after the Civil War in the US.
what is now the best entry ? i have a copy of 1825
BRAVO!! Standing Ovation. 👏
Have you played Irish Gauge or Ride the Rails from Capstone Games? Those are simplified train games with a significantly cut down play time. I'm wondering if they would be a good entry way to get players familiar with 18xx mechanics.
We made a video on Irish Gauge and we talk about Ride the Rails on our podcast.