It took me until TTH to realise that I had automatically been reading ‘soletaken’ as ‘soultaken’ (in terms of meaning) the entire time, and that ‘sole’ meant as opposed to being a d’ivers. Thus the whole time I’ve been interpreting soultaken as implying that something of their human soul has been lost to their alternate form.
Were-armadillo? 😆 Spoilers ahead: I haven’t thought a lot about the horror elements in Malazan. I’m expecting them to increase in the Bauchelain and Korbal Broach stories, but they’re a seamless part of the “big story” too, as you’ve pointed out. I must admit that, of all the “horror related” deaths, I was pretty sad about the fate of Messremb (Bob the werebear), but you’re right about the conglomeration of fears in Tremorlor. Great insights into the nature/civilization dichotomy, and well said about Baudin’s humanity and the impact of his sacrifice on Felisin. Ah, yes, poor Pulp . . .
Don't know what is worse.. 'Pulp', or him being the afterthought 🤣 Bauchelain and Korbal Broach stories certainly have a horror feel, but in a slapstick kinda way. Don't know if you've seen the movie Army of Darkness? 💀😂
@@robpaul7544 I’ve not had the pleasure yet of seeing that film. I’m more than halfway through Memories of Ice, though, and thus have recently been reunited with Bauchelain and Korbal Broach!
@@ACriticalDragon Ha I just wish I could articulate my thoughts as well as yourself. I remember thinking and feeling the same things but find it difficult to remember specifics with such a large body of work!
That's so interesting! The way I had seen it is that at the end of the rule of Dessimbelackis the ritual to become Soletaken or D'ivers became available to anybody who was willing to try it. And that in their greed for power, people chose it in large numbers, disregarding the risks. And in doing so, they were directly responsbile for the horror that was being visisted by the T'lan Imass. You see it as as society that was getting ready to ascend, in a way, preparing itself, yet things happened too early and they weren't ready. I will keep an eye out for it during my re-read. Maybe I missed something. Also, and this is going to be a spoiler for House of Chains, I missed the fact that it was water that petrified them. I remembered they were preserved, but not how. Speaking of recurrent themes, we see petrification much the same way in House of Chains, in the petrified trees in the Raraku desert that Karsa scuplts. That was one of the most amazing foreshadowing bits that Erikson left in full sight and we all missed the first time around: there were forests here once, then there was a sea, then the sea went away, leaving a desert. Or, possibly, forests that than became deserts because of human use, who can tell? If there was a sea there before, there can be one again (tying it to time being cyclical). It hit me that this was foreshadowing during my first read, when the desert became a sea once more. (you couldn't say anything about it because of the spoiler problem, but I couldn't miss the opportunity to point out how beautifully woven this story is and how amazingly Erikson pulled things together)
Hi Claudia, and also remember that the prologue of Memories of Ice (although a different location) explicitly talks about the glacier becoming sea, becoming land, and how then, as we go through the book, we see how that land has changed over time. So the evolution of the landscape (natural, magical, or otherwise) is a big theme running through the series. We can also tie this into the biblical flood narrative (that we see occur in many myths and fables). In Deadhouse Gates we are specifically told about the desertification due to the forests being cut down for shipbuilding, and then goatherders using the land for pasture which prevented the regrowth of the trees, leading to an expansion of the desert into the area. So there are further points of connection that build on this. It is all very cool.
@@ACriticalDragon For a very long time I kept trying to find a short sentence to explain what The Malazan Book of the Fallen is all about, and after dealing with several lengthy versions, the only solution i came up with that ecompasses everything is "this is the most amazing book you wil have ever read". It is the only description that can cover everything that Steve put in these books. So, so, so, so many things connected and interwoven, we could spend days, face to face, talking about it over meals and drinks, and still not cover eveything. I do have the brazen shamelessness of calling myself Steve's greatest fan. And I know without a doubt that there are many people out there making the same claim. We are all, of course, correct :P
Fascinating discussion. What really intrigued me was your comment that not all soletaken or d’ivers are evil. I had not really considered the possibility of some being good. It made me realize that my view had shifted from book 1 to book 2. I did not consider Anomander Rake to be evil, yet he is soletaken. My perception of both soletaken and d’ivers in the second book was of these barely seen monsters hidden within the whirlwind. When they do appear they are these monstrous apparitions of raw power and rage. The only time I felt pity was when Mappo discovered the death of his friend.
Hi Francois, great to hear from you again. Your point about how your perceptions shifted is great, because this is obviously one of those things that Erikson plays with throughout the books. Evil can appear good, good can appear evil, and everything in between. There is a complex morality at play, and I think that is a great strength of the novels.
Wow, thanks for your videos! I'm currently reading the series for my first time (I just started Memories of Ice) and I've been loving the series because there is so much content to chew on. The books are a little overwhelming, but I've already noticed myself becoming a significantly more diligent reader. Your videos are perfect for debriefing after books and helping me to think about the events that happened in ways I hand't considered. Excited to see the rest of your videos as I continue the series!
Always thought soletaken was somewhat akin to their self (soul) being gone and not entirely theirs anymore - they talk about some of them being more bestial, or staying as their beast animal more (there was cross over with gods like treach or fenner being more bestial than they may have previously been) and losing their "soul". Pretty sure gruntle talks about wanting to stay as the tiger or not remembering aspects of being the tiger (although that was some reverse d'ivers where he gained power from his follower sembling into the beast).
Huge thanks for these videos that have a narrower focus and then take that an expand it out into the larger context. So much nuance isn't discussed on Malazan, not because people don't wish to, but because the stories are just so expansive folks have had to sort of pick and choose as it were; with the recent proliferation of Malazan focused booktube channels there is more room for zero-ing in, which is really awesome. I will remain hopeful and grateful for A Critical Dragon future videos that isolate ideas/themes/events like this. Huge thanks, again.
You are very welcome. The books will definitely be around for a long time, and hopefully my channel will be around for a while at least, so there is no rush. Enjoy the series. Enjoy the journey. The great thing is, you can always enjoy it again.
Some of the Letheras storylines are arguably pretty close to urban-fantasy. The technology is obviously lacking, but some of the economic and cultural developments and themes fit. Either way, those and the Phoenix Inn crew play a major part in filling in the urban civilian side of the Malazan painting. Without spoiling too much for ppl stumbling on this comment: Karsa fits into the balanced depiction of nature thing too, as a more complex take on the whole noble savage thing and to an extent as a contrast to the Imass. I don't know about Pompeii having the feel of a classic greek tragedy. I mean it's tragic, but...
We just watched the video and enjoyed it. I hope you keep on creating videos like this. It's very useful information and the way you explain things - that's very educational. Thank you very, very much for everything you do for us :)
Hi Rox, I am glad that you enjoyed it, as I really enjoy talking about these things. So thank you for watching and being an audience. I hope that I maintain a balance between educational about the writing and interesting about the writing and never veer too far into 'lecture the audience about this dry academic point' territory.
@@ACriticalDragon Oh the balance is always there, and I doubt you could ever make a bad or boring video (unless you really try hard to do one as such). It looks this comes natural to you, and it can be felt in your voice and seen on your face how much you love doing this and talking about these books. I personally like the academic approach, and the more the better! : You share things and details with us in a way that shows us how to better understand the books and how to become better readers, without patting yourself on the shoulder about how smart you are, and I guess this is one of the many reasons people like you so much. Looking forward for the next video! P.S. - I am rereading Crack'd Pot Trail and Apto Canavalian is even funnier now :)
Great stuff! Can’t wait for you to talk spoilers for later books cuz there’s a lot that happens that I hear no one talk about (because they’re afraid of spoilers) on UA-cam.
Hi Graeme, oh there will be spoilers a plenty discussed as I move through the series. Admittedly, it is going to take time to get there. But as I go through each book I will be able to reference earlier books and start doing series over views.
AP thanks for your amazing insights! Your videos are delightful and make me learn so much! You have inspired to continue searching for symbols in my first read of the series so I uploaded my last video on book 1 of Midnight Tides to sum up some of these assumptions and interpretations. And of course I dedicate the video to you!
Hi Jay, sorry. Your comment was in the held for review section. I have no idea why. I am really glad that you enjoyed the video. I am looking forward to viewing your analysis.
[Minor Book 3 Spoilers] I forgot a lot of these horror elements you mention in GotM and DG, because the horror prose becomes so prominent in MoI that MoI becomes the *horror* novel of the series for me! I have always been a fan of the horror genre, but (hot take) something about the horror genre in film and media is that they generally don't hold up to criticism and analysis. There are plenty of exceptions of course, and moreso in recent years as Hollywood (A24 especially) has become obsessed with the money machine that is the horror genre, but IMO it's still not common to see truly quality writing in the horror field. ^My take is subverted by Erikson though, who manages to weave these elements into his literature and has managed some amazing overall works with amazing horror elements (alongside a host of other elicited emotions besides fear). Your video here has intrigued me into thinking about the ways in which Erikson achieved this! And, like you've touched on in this video, I think a lot of it is to do with placing the horror elements alongside other, non-horror emotions and multi-dimensional characters that you grow to care about. Erikson tills the fear and tension along several fronts, and he stays true to root of horror by playing into humanity's fears as with Soletaken and D'ivers. The "jump scares" are there too, as with Gryllen and Imass, but those aren't his only trick which is nice. I'm not sure how much time you're going to spend on the meta-aspects of horror in Malazan, but I would love to hear more of your thoughts on them, especially in MoI!
Hi Ryan, thanks for watching. Memories of Ice is the next book I am discussing with Philip Chase, so I will definitely be talking about the horror elements.
I really enjoyed the historical aspect of the scene with all the fossilized shapeshifters in mid flight. Moments like this give so much more depth to the world and its lore
Great video as always AP! About the Ruined City: Yes, it very much reminded me of Lot's Wife being turned into a pillar of salt in the Bible as well. I am afraid I am showing off my millennial age, but I have to admit that when you refrenced "The Wizard of Oz" with "Lions, tigers, bears, oh my!", mentally I went on: "oh my ride, We're furious and fast, Super sonic like JJ Phat!", and for two seconds I thought: Did AP just refrence F&F:Tokyo Drift?
Mac, I can absolutely assure you that it was not, in fact, a Fast & Furious reference. I had to look up what you were talking about... it took an embarrassing amount of time for me to figure out what you were referencing. I will hang my head in shame for at least a minute.
Oh... Monty Python mention? I'll drop this comment I saw on Reddit recently( Spoilers of course): "Stranger gods lying on tents distributing cursed swords is no basis for a system of Government" 😂
Excellent video. Horror elements are there, but like most things with Erikson, it’s not that simple. Tool’s intro is horrific, but Tool is not. Apt is a demon, but not a monster. And if there is a monster in Deadhouse Gates, I would nominate Korbolo Dom, and he’s just a human and not even a mage. Two other comments. Of course you are right about soletaken not being all bad. For some reason, people seem to forget that Rake is soletaken. The paths to ascension are very interesting. Would just like to add two others who are on their own paths - Mallick Rel, who in another double entendre, started his ascent up Krul’s tower. And, of course, the Bridgeburners, through Fiddler’s contact with the spirit walker.
Thanks for the comments, and again I agree with you. I am planning on discussing more of the specific horror elements as I get into Memories of Ice videos. One of the things that I really appreciate about the series is how both Erikson and Esslemont incorporate such clear horror elements but blend them into the fantasy setting in such a way that they do not feel tonally or thematically separate or disjointed. The soletaken natures of the Tiste come much more into the fore in MoI, so I was going to address that in those videos, and, of course, ascendancy is an increasingly important thread in the novels. So I will have lots to develop further as I move through the series an unpack how a lot of these concepts unfold and are explored further. Thanks again for watching.
I hate myself for selling my Subpress copies of Deadhouse Gates, House of Chains, Midnight Tides and The Bonehubters several years ago. Malazan is becoming really popular and now Deadhouse Gates alone is probably worth $2,000.
Hey AP, love the content and the analysis. As a Biblical scholar, I recognize a lot of the analyzing techniques you apply. Question: I heard you mention in another video that you read over 400 fantasy books for your Ph.D. Any chance you could share that reading list with us? Sub-question: have you read any fantasy in other languages?
Unfortunately the original research list and files were on an old computer and it sadly didn't survive the test of time. There was a lot of Forgotten Realms, series fantasy, and franchise fantasy, as well as the fantasy popular in the '90s as that was the focus of the research. Eddings, Gemmell, Feist, Wurts, Weis and Hickman, Hobb, Rawn, Jordan, Kay, Martin, Goodkind, as well as a lot of authors like Tolkien, Donaldson, Moorcock, Howard, Burroughs, Lovecraft, McDonald, Cook, Leiber, Le Guin, Norton, Vance... basically anything that had dragons, magic, or swords in it. Erikson, Esslemont, Sanderson, Lawrence, and a host of others were then later additions to see if the trends bore out. I have read relatively little fantasy from other languages to my shame and detriment.
@@ACriticalDragon Ah, I see you were actively seeking the connection with role- and gameplay then. Makes sense. And I hear you on old computers and losing files, those things happen.
There is one more Deadhouse Gates specific video scheduled. After that I am going to move onto Memories of Ice and pick up on some specific elements there. But I will be adding more videos over time that start to look at the series as it is developing and how characters evolve and how reader perception of events change over time as I go through each book. Then, hopefully if I still have an audience, I will do some series over view videos. That should be enough to take me into the next year :)
[There be RotCG spoilers in this comment!] I really enjoyed this video. The Path of Hands is such a delightfully weird part of the book. Like practically every story arc (not sure if this is the right word) in a Malazan book, it touches and influences all the others yet still feels fairly independent. Maybe that's because it affects all the other story arcs but is only really affected by Iskaral Pust's. Genre-blending is an interesting subject. I think horror and science fiction are more difficult to mix than horror and fantasy. Your recent video about technology and magic raised some points that are relevant here: if there is no limit to these, then I'm not overly afraid about anything as a reader/viewer because I figure there's a raygun or healing potion that negates the threat. Just my two cents, but I think Fantasy can have horror elements woven in a little more effectively; I suspect this is because magic systems generally rely on the author's imagination and limits are fairly easy to state. Science fiction, of course, generally relies on recognized scientific principles, and, perhaps, authors are less willing to create specific boundaries for fear that they may make a mistake. I think Erikson tends to blend more science fiction elements into the fantasy setting than horror though I bet he and other Sci-Fi fans would disagree about this. I can't speak to the difference in writing techniques and audience expectations; I only get certain vibes that I associate with the different genres. This isn't meant as a criticism, but while I have thought things in Erikson's books have been scary, they don't have that horror feel. Esslemont, on the other hand, has written passages that have given me nightmares and I tend to think of him as being the author who is more prone to weaving horror elements into his stories. The Hounds of Shadow and Ryllandaras come to mind. And Ryllandaras, in particular, might be a good example of how the authors approach the same subject differently. Differences owing to established lore notwithstanding, Erikson's Ryllandaras is described from the points of view of Icarium and Mappo who observe him almost dispassionately and without fear. I believe he may also be the first D'ivers we encounter so some of this chapter is dedicated to description and explanation. I tend to engage with this kind of thing more rationally. In RotCG, we seem "the same" monster from Storo and his squad's point of view and he is absolutely dreadful and terrible. The way he's built up makes me experience him on a more (not the right word but...) emotional level. What you said about Esslemont's roleplaying makes sense here. He also feels a little closer to REH but that's just conjecture. Also, they can't be called Steve or Carl. Look what happened with Kyle! Finally, I'm fascinated by what you said about the lost city trying to elevate itself via this kind of bestial magic/ritual. I'm currently working on an essay/video on Seven Cities about how it's lost so much of its history and is therefore doomed to stagnate and to repeat the same mistakes. I may have to steal... er... reference... this idea and compare it to Seven Cities turning to the Whirlwind. If you can't tell, by the way, I'm avoiding my day job this afternoon but I'd better get back to it.
Hi Jagarr, for some reason your comment was 'Held for Review' again. I have no idea why. Sorry about that. Science fiction and horror don't mix eh? Event Horizon Entire Alien Franchise Predator Carpenter's The Thing Stranger Things The Stand .... I really should get some cough medicine, this is pretty bad. :) :) I am looking forward to your next video then. It sounds really interesting.
@@ACriticalDragon It's a known issue and one I can't seem to do anything about. I'll just hope that it goes away on its own, but the wall of text below can't be helping. I didn't say they don't mix, just that I think it maybe takes a little bit more care for horror elements to be worked into a sci-fi setting. Even oil and water will mix if you have the right ingredients and ratios. In a lot of your examples, what I'll call the horror element and the sci-fi element are one and the same which seems like an effective way of doing it - you put all the scary technology in the bad guy's hands and send him after some helpless teenagers. Once the sci-fi elements are in the hands of your POVs or your protagonists, though, I think it gets a little more interesting. Alien and Aliens is a good example. I think the first is much scarier than the second because it lacked its sequel's action element. This is not to say that Aliens is not scary - I think it purposefully diminished the horror atmosphere (though there were hints it was still there) by giving you some confidence that the marines could take care of everything before it then took all that away. A similar thing happened with the first two Terminator movies, but I don't feel like Cameron had any real interest in the second being scary. And Event Horizon - I was 10 years old and recovering from an operation when my dad picked that up from the video store. I watched the entire thing because he forgot to hand me the remote and I couldn't get up to get it. I still sometimes hesitate when I'm about to open a bathroom door... Now, I've only addressed some of your examples and haven't offered any of my own to support my point. And I have examples - you wouldn't believe how many amazing and beautiful examples I have - but... uh... you're not feeling well and I don't want to catch sick. Oh, and please leave some cough medicine in the cold purgatory that is your "Held for Review" section. I'll pass it around with the hot girls in your area and the warnings about your vehicle's expired warranty.
What have you done to annoy UA-cam so much? Yours are the only comments that seem to end up there. I will try to check it more regularly just in case. I am so sorry about this.
I think the Path of Hands is where people get lost. It is such a radical shift from the other two storylines. You have so much thrown at you all at once it doesn't make much sense except in hindsight. You really do just have to be in it for the ride. D'vers...diverse. Huh. I also don't think I have seen were-fish in any other book. But it is an interesting take on shape-shifting where other authors can just insert 'were something' or say lycanthrope as a kind of Cliff Note method of writing so they don't have to give much description of back story. The same often occurs when you read elf or orc. Which is why blood elves in Earrhdawn are so cool and against type. Late addition random question. Is there any rhyme or reason to character names? They are all over the place and don't seem to have any cultural significance. And then you get Kyle...
Hi Eric, I wasn't aware that people struggled with the Path of Hands storyline. That is interesting. I would have thought that a storyline all about magical 'monsters' that was intercut with significant action would have been popular. It seems that is what I always assumed that fans want more of. Then again, I am certainly not the most active on social media so don't have a lot of interaction with others about the series (and that is why this whole UA-cam thing is so strange for me... waaaaaaaay out of my comfort zone). I remember a cartoon called Visionaries... or something like that, and two of the characters turned into a shar and dolphin respectively... And I am almost positive there are folk and fairy tales that have shapeshifters that turn into water/sea animals... such as selkies... but given our land-based lives, it seems for more common to explore land based shapeshifters... the ability to turn into a blue whale isn't that useful when you live in a desert... So it is an interesting aspect of anthrocentric thinking that leads to our construction of an anthorcentric supernatural world and imposes our own bias onto something that you would think would be radically different. I will have to think about this a bit more. It is intriguing. As to the naming convention thing. I don't know why people have such an issue with Kyle. It was revealed as a shortened form of a longer name I seem to recall. Plus, I have seen a load of fantasy novels that use Irish/Scottish/Celtic names as characters (many of which are not that uncommon here whereas Kyle would be a fairly uncommon name 'round these parts) and no one has an issue with those, or Germanic or Scandanavian names, and no one has an issue with that. Quick Ben has Ben as a first name. Whiskeyjack has Jack. Each to their own, I guess. I wonder would it have been more acceptable if he had used a 'fantasy' spelling like Kiall... Anyway, I digress. I will have to ask about the names as I haven't really studied them to look for specific connections or cultural/historical analogues.
@@ACriticalDragon there are mythological shape changing sea creatures they just don't show up in books often. Then you get David Brin and his dolphins in space. I was going from friends of mine who are reading the series the Path was a lot of new stuff thrown at once like the D'vers Azath Incarium etc. They liked the fights.
@@ACriticalDragon as for cultural analogies, there are names inspired by classical antiquity, like Anomander and Ultor. And the Seven Cities continent is littered with city names that are nods to archeological sites in our world. (sorry for answering an old thread, but I hope some of this might be useful)
@@imokin86 Weirdly enough, I was recently chatting to Erikson and Esslemont and they mentioned that Erikson borrowed names liberally from dig sites that they had studied or were aware of.
I went back to this video because I’ve been having difficulty seeing the thematic consistency between the Path of Hands and the rest of the book (in retrospect-I’m not reading it right now). Is it mainly that it parallels the paths to ascension that others take? Is it the nature vs. civilisation aspect? I’m not sure.
Is it possible that you are looking at it too literally and thinking of a direct one-to-one corollary? The D'ivers/Soletaken are 'beasts' seeking power, seeking ascendancy, and seeking control, they are perceived as evil, brutal and wild. But then we see that not all of them are like that, and we also see that not all of them chose to become soletaken in the first place. The path of hands is dangerous and is ultimately about gaining power (although, as we see, some are on it to stop the others). Coltaine is initially viewed as a beast, a barbarian, and as brutal, but as we follow Duiker's PoV we come to understand Coltaine as often more civil and civilised than those labelled as such (e.g. the nobles). His 'path' is just as long an full of danger, but it is to save people not accrue power for himself. Then we have the nobles in the 'chain', the so called civilised. Yet they are generally inhumane, cruel, and vindicative. So even in those short examples we have multiple points in which they are exploring, comparing, and contrasting similar elements in a thematic fashion.
Hey AP. I'm 4 minutes in here so I will probably come back with more to say cos your videos are always so thought provoking, but since I have no idea if you ever check twitter and Christine Vallestad doesn't have enough subscribers to do direct channel tagging I just wanted to let you know that she tagged your channel on her original book tag Converse Sneakers Book Tag today. Cheers!
An assassins “honor” is a bridge too far as it doesn’t credit conceptually the fear of NOT performing the guild contract and hence becoming a “mark” himself. A bit too much chivalry in the analysis of what by nature is an evil pursuit or vocation in your analysis of Baudin. Just a thought…
Baudin is not part of a 'guild', he is a Talon, and they have basically been wiped out. There is no fear of reprisal, as there are a) very few Talons left, and b) no one would know if he just let her die as they are in the wilderness. But interestingly, fantasy (and a lot of other genres including action and spy) has a curious relationship with assassins. We have innumerable stories in which assassins have codes of honour, despite the inherently immoral choice of career. Baudin is certainly shown as a brutal and callous murderer at the beginning, but in the end, particularly in that moment of sacrifice, he transcends the brutality to become both heroic and tragic. Just a thought.
Yes, I went back to check on Talon which is clearly a military organization, which is quite different than a guild. Perhaps I’m still wrestling with the morality as discussed in the other video, no? Great work by the way.
Honour and morality are different things. Which is one of the reasons why the portrayal of assassins in popular culture can be so fascinating and also 'problematic'. James Bond is a classic example. He is a hired killer, but he is hired by the government to perform assassinations for the 'right reasons'. We see it also in those stories like Leon in which there is a 'code' such as 'no women or children', or in Boondock Saints in which the assassin only kills career criminals, or even in Dexter when a serial killer targets other serial killers, or Frank Castle as the Punisher who executes criminals and 'bad guys'. Each time the 'code of honour' of the individual is meant, in some way, to represent that the main character is not completely immoral, but has a core of morality which may differ from the norm, but they hold to it. We can then contrast this to a far more realistic portrayal of an actual assassin (rather than the romanticised or heroised version) that we see in Day of the Jackal. Assassins in fantasy are a really interesting topic.
As someone who somewhat recently finished Deadhouse Gates, these videos have been a perfect follow-up to that experience.
I am very glad to hear that you are enjoying the videos. Thanks for watching. Memories of Ice is next month.
@@ACriticalDragon Then that’s a good motivator for me to finish MoI by then! I’m liking it even more than DG so far.
"Why can't they just be called Steve?"
Hahahaha! Wonderful.
Hi Tommy, I hope that you enjoyed the rest of it too.
@@ACriticalDragon I most certainly did!
It took me until TTH to realise that I had automatically been reading ‘soletaken’ as ‘soultaken’ (in terms of meaning) the entire time, and that ‘sole’ meant as opposed to being a d’ivers. Thus the whole time I’ve been interpreting soultaken as implying that something of their human soul has been lost to their alternate form.
Well there is a play on words with that, especially given how their humanity is often stripped away because of the ritual.
Were-armadillo? 😆 Spoilers ahead:
I haven’t thought a lot about the horror elements in Malazan. I’m expecting them to increase in the Bauchelain and Korbal Broach stories, but they’re a seamless part of the “big story” too, as you’ve pointed out. I must admit that, of all the “horror related” deaths, I was pretty sad about the fate of Messremb (Bob the werebear), but you’re right about the conglomeration of fears in Tremorlor. Great insights into the nature/civilization dichotomy, and well said about Baudin’s humanity and the impact of his sacrifice on Felisin. Ah, yes, poor Pulp . . .
Pulp??? Still too soon, my friend... too soon. 😆😆😆😆
Don't know what is worse.. 'Pulp', or him being the afterthought 🤣
Bauchelain and Korbal Broach stories certainly have a horror feel, but in a slapstick kinda way. Don't know if you've seen the movie Army of Darkness? 💀😂
@@robpaul7544 I’ve not had the pleasure yet of seeing that film. I’m more than halfway through Memories of Ice, though, and thus have recently been reunited with Bauchelain and Korbal Broach!
@@robpaul7544 Army of Darkness rocks! 🤘
"I'm never going to forgive Erikson for killing Kulp in this way" #Truth
That was a gut punch 😢
Or a punch made of guts.
Worst party ever.
@@ACriticalDragon
Lovely play on words haha. I'm on my 2nd read through and found your channel, working my way through your vids 😁👍
@@Rosskles I hope you enjoy the videos and discussions. Thanks for watching.
@@ACriticalDragon Ha I just wish I could articulate my thoughts as well as yourself. I remember thinking and feeling the same things but find it difficult to remember specifics with such a large body of work!
That's so interesting! The way I had seen it is that at the end of the rule of Dessimbelackis the ritual to become Soletaken or D'ivers became available to anybody who was willing to try it. And that in their greed for power, people chose it in large numbers, disregarding the risks. And in doing so, they were directly responsbile for the horror that was being visisted by the T'lan Imass. You see it as as society that was getting ready to ascend, in a way, preparing itself, yet things happened too early and they weren't ready. I will keep an eye out for it during my re-read. Maybe I missed something.
Also, and this is going to be a spoiler for House of Chains, I missed the fact that it was water that petrified them. I remembered they were preserved, but not how. Speaking of recurrent themes, we see petrification much the same way in House of Chains, in the petrified trees in the Raraku desert that Karsa scuplts. That was one of the most amazing foreshadowing bits that Erikson left in full sight and we all missed the first time around: there were forests here once, then there was a sea, then the sea went away, leaving a desert. Or, possibly, forests that than became deserts because of human use, who can tell? If there was a sea there before, there can be one again (tying it to time being cyclical). It hit me that this was foreshadowing during my first read, when the desert became a sea once more. (you couldn't say anything about it because of the spoiler problem, but I couldn't miss the opportunity to point out how beautifully woven this story is and how amazingly Erikson pulled things together)
Hi Claudia, and also remember that the prologue of Memories of Ice (although a different location) explicitly talks about the glacier becoming sea, becoming land, and how then, as we go through the book, we see how that land has changed over time. So the evolution of the landscape (natural, magical, or otherwise) is a big theme running through the series.
We can also tie this into the biblical flood narrative (that we see occur in many myths and fables).
In Deadhouse Gates we are specifically told about the desertification due to the forests being cut down for shipbuilding, and then goatherders using the land for pasture which prevented the regrowth of the trees, leading to an expansion of the desert into the area.
So there are further points of connection that build on this. It is all very cool.
@@ACriticalDragon For a very long time I kept trying to find a short sentence to explain what The Malazan Book of the Fallen is all about, and after dealing with several lengthy versions, the only solution i came up with that ecompasses everything is "this is the most amazing book you wil have ever read". It is the only description that can cover everything that Steve put in these books. So, so, so, so many things connected and interwoven, we could spend days, face to face, talking about it over meals and drinks, and still not cover eveything. I do have the brazen shamelessness of calling myself Steve's greatest fan. And I know without a doubt that there are many people out there making the same claim. We are all, of course, correct :P
Fascinating discussion. What really intrigued me was your comment that not all soletaken or d’ivers are evil. I had not really considered the possibility of some being good. It made me realize that my view had shifted from book 1 to book 2. I did not consider Anomander Rake to be evil, yet he is soletaken. My perception of both soletaken and d’ivers in the second book was of these barely seen monsters hidden within the whirlwind. When they do appear they are these monstrous apparitions of raw power and rage. The only time I felt pity was when Mappo discovered the death of his friend.
Hi Francois, great to hear from you again. Your point about how your perceptions shifted is great, because this is obviously one of those things that Erikson plays with throughout the books. Evil can appear good, good can appear evil, and everything in between. There is a complex morality at play, and I think that is a great strength of the novels.
Wow, thanks for your videos! I'm currently reading the series for my first time (I just started Memories of Ice) and I've been loving the series because there is so much content to chew on. The books are a little overwhelming, but I've already noticed myself becoming a significantly more diligent reader. Your videos are perfect for debriefing after books and helping me to think about the events that happened in ways I hand't considered. Excited to see the rest of your videos as I continue the series!
Always thought soletaken was somewhat akin to their self (soul) being gone and not entirely theirs anymore - they talk about some of them being more bestial, or staying as their beast animal more (there was cross over with gods like treach or fenner being more bestial than they may have previously been) and losing their "soul". Pretty sure gruntle talks about wanting to stay as the tiger or not remembering aspects of being the tiger (although that was some reverse d'ivers where he gained power from his follower sembling into the beast).
The followers joining to become an even more badass god-like tiger was amazing!
Huge thanks for these videos that have a narrower focus and then take that an expand it out into the larger context. So much nuance isn't discussed on Malazan, not because people don't wish to, but because the stories are just so expansive folks have had to sort of pick and choose as it were; with the recent proliferation of Malazan focused booktube channels there is more room for zero-ing in, which is really awesome. I will remain hopeful and grateful for A Critical Dragon future videos that isolate ideas/themes/events like this. Huge thanks, again.
Thank you for the extremely kind words. I am very glad that you are enjoying these.
Thank you tor your thoughts! You make me want to reread the series, even though I'm not finished yet.
You are very welcome. The books will definitely be around for a long time, and hopefully my channel will be around for a while at least, so there is no rush. Enjoy the series. Enjoy the journey. The great thing is, you can always enjoy it again.
A great video as always, but now I'm kind of preoccupied with wanting to see a werearmadillo.
Personally I want to see a were-sloth or a were-manatee, but they never seem to come up in fiction. Thanks for watching.
Some of the Letheras storylines are arguably pretty close to urban-fantasy. The technology is obviously lacking, but some of the economic and cultural developments and themes fit. Either way, those and the Phoenix Inn crew play a major part in filling in the urban civilian side of the Malazan painting.
Without spoiling too much for ppl stumbling on this comment:
Karsa fits into the balanced depiction of nature thing too, as a more complex take on the whole noble savage thing and to an extent as a contrast to the Imass.
I don't know about Pompeii having the feel of a classic greek tragedy. I mean it's tragic, but...
We just watched the video and enjoyed it. I hope you keep on creating videos like this. It's very useful information and the way you explain things - that's very educational. Thank you very, very much for everything you do for us :)
Hi Rox, I am glad that you enjoyed it, as I really enjoy talking about these things. So thank you for watching and being an audience. I hope that I maintain a balance between educational about the writing and interesting about the writing and never veer too far into 'lecture the audience about this dry academic point' territory.
@@ACriticalDragon Oh the balance is always there, and I doubt you could ever make a bad or boring video (unless you really try hard to do one as such). It looks this comes natural to you, and it can be felt in your voice and seen on your face how much you love doing this and talking about these books. I personally like the academic approach, and the more the better! :
You share things and details with us in a way that shows us how to better understand the books and how to become better readers, without patting yourself on the shoulder about how smart you are, and I guess this is one of the many reasons people like you so much. Looking forward for the next video!
P.S. - I am rereading Crack'd Pot Trail and Apto Canavalian is even funnier now :)
Poor Apto. I pity the person that character was based on... Oh wait. Damnit.... 😂😂😂😂
Great stuff! Can’t wait for you to talk spoilers for later books cuz there’s a lot that happens that I hear no one talk about (because they’re afraid of spoilers) on UA-cam.
Hi Graeme, oh there will be spoilers a plenty discussed as I move through the series. Admittedly, it is going to take time to get there. But as I go through each book I will be able to reference earlier books and start doing series over views.
Here's a thought, was that Priest of Hood made out of Flies a Soletaken?
That is an interesting thought, although, typically, Erikson includes a mention of a spicy scent or the scent of spices when a D'ivers is close by.
AP thanks for your amazing insights! Your videos are delightful and make me learn so much! You have inspired to continue searching for symbols in my first read of the series so I uploaded my last video on book 1 of Midnight Tides to sum up some of these assumptions and interpretations. And of course I dedicate the video to you!
Hi Jay, sorry. Your comment was in the held for review section. I have no idea why.
I am really glad that you enjoyed the video. I am looking forward to viewing your analysis.
[Minor Book 3 Spoilers]
I forgot a lot of these horror elements you mention in GotM and DG, because the horror prose becomes so prominent in MoI that MoI becomes the *horror* novel of the series for me! I have always been a fan of the horror genre, but (hot take) something about the horror genre in film and media is that they generally don't hold up to criticism and analysis. There are plenty of exceptions of course, and moreso in recent years as Hollywood (A24 especially) has become obsessed with the money machine that is the horror genre, but IMO it's still not common to see truly quality writing in the horror field.
^My take is subverted by Erikson though, who manages to weave these elements into his literature and has managed some amazing overall works with amazing horror elements (alongside a host of other elicited emotions besides fear). Your video here has intrigued me into thinking about the ways in which Erikson achieved this! And, like you've touched on in this video, I think a lot of it is to do with placing the horror elements alongside other, non-horror emotions and multi-dimensional characters that you grow to care about. Erikson tills the fear and tension along several fronts, and he stays true to root of horror by playing into humanity's fears as with Soletaken and D'ivers. The "jump scares" are there too, as with Gryllen and Imass, but those aren't his only trick which is nice.
I'm not sure how much time you're going to spend on the meta-aspects of horror in Malazan, but I would love to hear more of your thoughts on them, especially in MoI!
Hi Ryan, thanks for watching. Memories of Ice is the next book I am discussing with Philip Chase, so I will definitely be talking about the horror elements.
I really enjoyed the historical aspect of the scene with all the fossilized shapeshifters in mid flight. Moments like this give so much more depth to the world and its lore
Great video as always AP! About the Ruined City: Yes, it very much reminded me of Lot's Wife being turned into a pillar of salt in the Bible as well. I am afraid I am showing off my millennial age, but I have to admit that when you refrenced "The Wizard of Oz" with "Lions, tigers, bears, oh my!", mentally I went on: "oh my ride, We're furious and fast, Super sonic like JJ Phat!", and for two seconds I thought: Did AP just refrence F&F:Tokyo Drift?
There are even flying monkeys.
Mac, I can absolutely assure you that it was not, in fact, a Fast & Furious reference. I had to look up what you were talking about... it took an embarrassing amount of time for me to figure out what you were referencing. I will hang my head in shame for at least a minute.
Oh... Monty Python mention? I'll drop this comment I saw on Reddit recently( Spoilers of course):
"Stranger gods lying on tents distributing cursed swords is no basis for a system of Government"
😂
You can’t expect to wield supreme power just because some phlegmy geriatric threw a sword at you!
@@QuickJen Supreme executive power comes from a mandate of the Azath!
:D
@@oniflrog4487 I mean, if I went around saying I was an emperor just because some wizened immigrant had lobbed a scimitar at me, they’d put me away!
SHUT UP!!! Bloody peasants!
@@mrwaffles1394 Aha! Now we see the violence inherent in the system!
Excellent video. Horror elements are there, but like most things with Erikson, it’s not that simple. Tool’s intro is horrific, but Tool is not. Apt is a demon, but not a monster. And if there is a monster in Deadhouse Gates, I would nominate Korbolo Dom, and he’s just a human and not even a mage.
Two other comments. Of course you are right about soletaken not being all bad. For some reason, people seem to forget that Rake is soletaken.
The paths to ascension are very interesting. Would just like to add two others who are on their own paths - Mallick Rel, who in another double entendre, started his ascent up Krul’s tower. And, of course, the Bridgeburners, through Fiddler’s contact with the spirit walker.
Thanks for the comments, and again I agree with you. I am planning on discussing more of the specific horror elements as I get into Memories of Ice videos. One of the things that I really appreciate about the series is how both Erikson and Esslemont incorporate such clear horror elements but blend them into the fantasy setting in such a way that they do not feel tonally or thematically separate or disjointed.
The soletaken natures of the Tiste come much more into the fore in MoI, so I was going to address that in those videos, and, of course, ascendancy is an increasingly important thread in the novels.
So I will have lots to develop further as I move through the series an unpack how a lot of these concepts unfold and are explored further.
Thanks again for watching.
Fantastic. Thank you.
I hate myself for selling my Subpress copies of Deadhouse Gates, House of Chains, Midnight Tides and The Bonehubters several years ago. Malazan is becoming really popular and now Deadhouse Gates alone is probably worth $2,000.
Well, if they gave you joy at the time, and you got your money back or better, then you got a good deal. Hard to be mad about that.
Hey AP, love the content and the analysis. As a Biblical scholar, I recognize a lot of the analyzing techniques you apply.
Question: I heard you mention in another video that you read over 400 fantasy books for your Ph.D. Any chance you could share that reading list with us?
Sub-question: have you read any fantasy in other languages?
Unfortunately the original research list and files were on an old computer and it sadly didn't survive the test of time. There was a lot of Forgotten Realms, series fantasy, and franchise fantasy, as well as the fantasy popular in the '90s as that was the focus of the research. Eddings, Gemmell, Feist, Wurts, Weis and Hickman, Hobb, Rawn, Jordan, Kay, Martin, Goodkind, as well as a lot of authors like Tolkien, Donaldson, Moorcock, Howard, Burroughs, Lovecraft, McDonald, Cook, Leiber, Le Guin, Norton, Vance... basically anything that had dragons, magic, or swords in it. Erikson, Esslemont, Sanderson, Lawrence, and a host of others were then later additions to see if the trends bore out.
I have read relatively little fantasy from other languages to my shame and detriment.
Thanks for watching and commenting. I hope that at least some of this is interesting.
@@ACriticalDragon Ah, I see you were actively seeking the connection with role- and gameplay then. Makes sense.
And I hear you on old computers and losing files, those things happen.
You're spoiling us. Any more dg videos planned?
There is one more Deadhouse Gates specific video scheduled. After that I am going to move onto Memories of Ice and pick up on some specific elements there. But I will be adding more videos over time that start to look at the series as it is developing and how characters evolve and how reader perception of events change over time as I go through each book. Then, hopefully if I still have an audience, I will do some series over view videos. That should be enough to take me into the next year :)
[There be RotCG spoilers in this comment!] I really enjoyed this video. The Path of Hands is such a delightfully weird part of the book. Like practically every story arc (not sure if this is the right word) in a Malazan book, it touches and influences all the others yet still feels fairly independent. Maybe that's because it affects all the other story arcs but is only really affected by Iskaral Pust's.
Genre-blending is an interesting subject. I think horror and science fiction are more difficult to mix than horror and fantasy. Your recent video about technology and magic raised some points that are relevant here: if there is no limit to these, then I'm not overly afraid about anything as a reader/viewer because I figure there's a raygun or healing potion that negates the threat. Just my two cents, but I think Fantasy can have horror elements woven in a little more effectively; I suspect this is because magic systems generally rely on the author's imagination and limits are fairly easy to state. Science fiction, of course, generally relies on recognized scientific principles, and, perhaps, authors are less willing to create specific boundaries for fear that they may make a mistake.
I think Erikson tends to blend more science fiction elements into the fantasy setting than horror though I bet he and other Sci-Fi fans would disagree about this. I can't speak to the difference in writing techniques and audience expectations; I only get certain vibes that I associate with the different genres. This isn't meant as a criticism, but while I have thought things in Erikson's books have been scary, they don't have that horror feel. Esslemont, on the other hand, has written passages that have given me nightmares and I tend to think of him as being the author who is more prone to weaving horror elements into his stories. The Hounds of Shadow and Ryllandaras come to mind. And Ryllandaras, in particular, might be a good example of how the authors approach the same subject differently. Differences owing to established lore notwithstanding, Erikson's Ryllandaras is described from the points of view of Icarium and Mappo who observe him almost dispassionately and without fear. I believe he may also be the first D'ivers we encounter so some of this chapter is dedicated to description and explanation. I tend to engage with this kind of thing more rationally. In RotCG, we seem "the same" monster from Storo and his squad's point of view and he is absolutely dreadful and terrible. The way he's built up makes me experience him on a more (not the right word but...) emotional level.
What you said about Esslemont's roleplaying makes sense here. He also feels a little closer to REH but that's just conjecture.
Also, they can't be called Steve or Carl. Look what happened with Kyle!
Finally, I'm fascinated by what you said about the lost city trying to elevate itself via this kind of bestial magic/ritual. I'm currently working on an essay/video on Seven Cities about how it's lost so much of its history and is therefore doomed to stagnate and to repeat the same mistakes. I may have to steal... er... reference... this idea and compare it to Seven Cities turning to the Whirlwind.
If you can't tell, by the way, I'm avoiding my day job this afternoon but I'd better get back to it.
Hi Jagarr, for some reason your comment was 'Held for Review' again. I have no idea why. Sorry about that.
Science fiction and horror don't mix eh? Event Horizon Entire Alien Franchise Predator Carpenter's The Thing Stranger Things The Stand .... I really should get some cough medicine, this is pretty bad.
:) :)
I am looking forward to your next video then. It sounds really interesting.
@@ACriticalDragon
It's a known issue and one I can't seem to do anything about. I'll just hope that it goes away on its own, but the wall of text below can't be helping.
I didn't say they don't mix, just that I think it maybe takes a little bit more care for horror elements to be worked into a sci-fi setting. Even oil and water will mix if you have the right ingredients and ratios. In a lot of your examples, what I'll call the horror element and the sci-fi element are one and the same which seems like an effective way of doing it - you put all the scary technology in the bad guy's hands and send him after some helpless teenagers. Once the sci-fi elements are in the hands of your POVs or your protagonists, though, I think it gets a little more interesting. Alien and Aliens is a good example. I think the first is much scarier than the second because it lacked its sequel's action element. This is not to say that Aliens is not scary - I think it purposefully diminished the horror atmosphere (though there were hints it was still there) by giving you some confidence that the marines could take care of everything before it then took all that away. A similar thing happened with the first two Terminator movies, but I don't feel like Cameron had any real interest in the second being scary. And Event Horizon - I was 10 years old and recovering from an operation when my dad picked that up from the video store. I watched the entire thing because he forgot to hand me the remote and I couldn't get up to get it. I still sometimes hesitate when I'm about to open a bathroom door...
Now, I've only addressed some of your examples and haven't offered any of my own to support my point. And I have examples - you wouldn't believe how many amazing and beautiful examples I have - but... uh... you're not feeling well and I don't want to catch sick. Oh, and please leave some cough medicine in the cold purgatory that is your "Held for Review" section. I'll pass it around with the hot girls in your area and the warnings about your vehicle's expired warranty.
What have you done to annoy UA-cam so much? Yours are the only comments that seem to end up there. I will try to check it more regularly just in case. I am so sorry about this.
I think the Path of Hands is where people get lost. It is such a radical shift from the other two storylines. You have so much thrown at you all at once it doesn't make much sense except in hindsight. You really do just have to be in it for the ride.
D'vers...diverse. Huh.
I also don't think I have seen were-fish in any other book. But it is an interesting take on shape-shifting where other authors can just insert 'were something' or say lycanthrope as a kind of Cliff Note method of writing so they don't have to give much description of back story. The same often occurs when you read elf or orc. Which is why blood elves in Earrhdawn are so cool and against type.
Late addition random question. Is there any rhyme or reason to character names? They are all over the place and don't seem to have any cultural significance. And then you get Kyle...
Hi Eric, I wasn't aware that people struggled with the Path of Hands storyline. That is interesting. I would have thought that a storyline all about magical 'monsters' that was intercut with significant action would have been popular. It seems that is what I always assumed that fans want more of. Then again, I am certainly not the most active on social media so don't have a lot of interaction with others about the series (and that is why this whole UA-cam thing is so strange for me... waaaaaaaay out of my comfort zone).
I remember a cartoon called Visionaries... or something like that, and two of the characters turned into a shar and dolphin respectively... And I am almost positive there are folk and fairy tales that have shapeshifters that turn into water/sea animals... such as selkies... but given our land-based lives, it seems for more common to explore land based shapeshifters... the ability to turn into a blue whale isn't that useful when you live in a desert... So it is an interesting aspect of anthrocentric thinking that leads to our construction of an anthorcentric supernatural world and imposes our own bias onto something that you would think would be radically different. I will have to think about this a bit more. It is intriguing.
As to the naming convention thing. I don't know why people have such an issue with Kyle. It was revealed as a shortened form of a longer name I seem to recall. Plus, I have seen a load of fantasy novels that use Irish/Scottish/Celtic names as characters (many of which are not that uncommon here whereas Kyle would be a fairly uncommon name 'round these parts) and no one has an issue with those, or Germanic or Scandanavian names, and no one has an issue with that. Quick Ben has Ben as a first name. Whiskeyjack has Jack. Each to their own, I guess. I wonder would it have been more acceptable if he had used a 'fantasy' spelling like Kiall...
Anyway, I digress. I will have to ask about the names as I haven't really studied them to look for specific connections or cultural/historical analogues.
@@ACriticalDragon there are mythological shape changing sea creatures they just don't show up in books often. Then you get David Brin and his dolphins in space.
I was going from friends of mine who are reading the series the Path was a lot of new stuff thrown at once like the D'vers Azath Incarium etc. They liked the fights.
@@ACriticalDragon as for cultural analogies, there are names inspired by classical antiquity, like Anomander and Ultor. And the Seven Cities continent is littered with city names that are nods to archeological sites in our world.
(sorry for answering an old thread, but I hope some of this might be useful)
@@imokin86 Weirdly enough, I was recently chatting to Erikson and Esslemont and they mentioned that Erikson borrowed names liberally from dig sites that they had studied or were aware of.
@@ACriticalDragon yes, it's like all over the map in DG. There are slight variations in most cases, like Erlitan is a play on Ehrlitou in China.
I went back to this video because I’ve been having difficulty seeing the thematic consistency between the Path of Hands and the rest of the book (in retrospect-I’m not reading it right now). Is it mainly that it parallels the paths to ascension that others take? Is it the nature vs. civilisation aspect? I’m not sure.
Is it possible that you are looking at it too literally and thinking of a direct one-to-one corollary?
The D'ivers/Soletaken are 'beasts' seeking power, seeking ascendancy, and seeking control, they are perceived as evil, brutal and wild. But then we see that not all of them are like that, and we also see that not all of them chose to become soletaken in the first place. The path of hands is dangerous and is ultimately about gaining power (although, as we see, some are on it to stop the others).
Coltaine is initially viewed as a beast, a barbarian, and as brutal, but as we follow Duiker's PoV we come to understand Coltaine as often more civil and civilised than those labelled as such (e.g. the nobles). His 'path' is just as long an full of danger, but it is to save people not accrue power for himself.
Then we have the nobles in the 'chain', the so called civilised. Yet they are generally inhumane, cruel, and vindicative.
So even in those short examples we have multiple points in which they are exploring, comparing, and contrasting similar elements in a thematic fashion.
A1 content. thanks
You are very welcome.
Good stuff.
Thanks Richard, I am glad that you enjoyed it.
Hey AP. I'm 4 minutes in here so I will probably come back with more to say cos your videos are always so thought provoking, but since I have no idea if you ever check twitter and Christine Vallestad doesn't have enough subscribers to do direct channel tagging I just wanted to let you know that she tagged your channel on her original book tag Converse Sneakers Book Tag today. Cheers!
Thanks for letting me know. I will check it out.
An assassins “honor” is a bridge too far as it doesn’t credit conceptually the fear of NOT performing the guild contract and hence becoming a “mark” himself. A bit too much chivalry in the analysis of what by nature is an evil pursuit or vocation in your analysis of Baudin. Just a thought…
Baudin is not part of a 'guild', he is a Talon, and they have basically been wiped out. There is no fear of reprisal, as there are a) very few Talons left, and b) no one would know if he just let her die as they are in the wilderness.
But interestingly, fantasy (and a lot of other genres including action and spy) has a curious relationship with assassins. We have innumerable stories in which assassins have codes of honour, despite the inherently immoral choice of career.
Baudin is certainly shown as a brutal and callous murderer at the beginning, but in the end, particularly in that moment of sacrifice, he transcends the brutality to become both heroic and tragic.
Just a thought.
Yes, I went back to check on Talon which is clearly a military organization, which is quite different than a guild. Perhaps I’m still wrestling with the morality as discussed in the other video, no? Great work by the way.
Honour and morality are different things. Which is one of the reasons why the portrayal of assassins in popular culture can be so fascinating and also 'problematic'. James Bond is a classic example. He is a hired killer, but he is hired by the government to perform assassinations for the 'right reasons'. We see it also in those stories like Leon in which there is a 'code' such as 'no women or children', or in Boondock Saints in which the assassin only kills career criminals, or even in Dexter when a serial killer targets other serial killers, or Frank Castle as the Punisher who executes criminals and 'bad guys'.
Each time the 'code of honour' of the individual is meant, in some way, to represent that the main character is not completely immoral, but has a core of morality which may differ from the norm, but they hold to it. We can then contrast this to a far more realistic portrayal of an actual assassin (rather than the romanticised or heroised version) that we see in Day of the Jackal.
Assassins in fantasy are a really interesting topic.