To the Kallor point... It was obvious, and was supposed to be obvious, especially from the prologue... You have to remember, Rake, Brood and Kallor are all millennia old, and have all known each other for thousands of years. Rake and Brood both knew Kallor would eventually lash out at Silverfox regardless of their protections because of the curse Nightchill/The Sister of Cold Nights put on him with K'Rul and Draconus after he nuked his empire. Rake trusted Whiskeyjack to handle the threat, and he did, he had Kallor beat, until his knee gave out... which happened because of reasons...
His heavy-handedness on themes is intentional. I remember him talking about this in an interview. He doesn't want to be subtle about them. "If you want to discuss them, you better actually talk about them" is his philosophy. The more you progress, the more you will realize it.
That's fine that it's intentional, but it is a personal thing that I don't like in any book. I have complained recently of recent hugo winners being "too on the nose" and "too obvious" with themes; it's a personal thing that I just like more subtley.
At the time of reading, MoI was my favorite. I felt so rewarded like I finally started to understand what was going on. Also I kinda agree with the K'Chain Che'Malle. I understand that in a series with undead races, flying mountain cities, and such, a dinosaur race should fit right in. I just think something else could've filled that role and made it a bit more harmonious, at least for me. I actually just finished the main 10, and I feel immediately inspired to reread the series. Supposedly that's where the series really shines. I really hope you keep reading the series. I enjoy hearing your takes on it.
Yeah I can already see why rereading the series makes it even better; I've already had the urge to reread after Memories of Ice because I feel like I understand things so much better now.
@@Bookborn the reread shines after you finish the whole series, not after the individual book. Not saying you shouldn't reread MoI if you feel inspired, but once you have ingested the entire series and then go reread, holy crap... its amazing
Yeah, Quick Ben was AWESOME in this book. I've also always put him in my top 5, and it was great to have so much of him in this one. Dude's a menace. And I also really liked the Mhybe stuff, I thought it was very much heartbreaking seeing her go through all that. About Kallor, I agree it was obvious to the readers, but I can definitely see why someone like Brood wouldn't see it. Kallor wasn't acting evil, he just hated Silverfox. And, I mean, Brood and Kallor had been working together for a LONG time, and Brood trusted Kallor enough to have him as second in command. Sure, he sometimes needed to put him in his place, but that was it. So I can see why he'd not foresee the betrayal (not to mention that we saw the scene of him being offered a role in the newly founded House of Chains, which the other characters didn't see). So I actually think it was good. I was mad that he was able to catch everyone off guard, but I'm interested in seeing the House of Chains being formed and how that will progress throughout the series. And I get your feelings on part 2, but I think it payed off in the end. Once I understood the political setting of Capustan and saw the Grey Swords doing their thing, I was fine with it. And Gruntle and Itkovian were characters I liked a lot by the end of the book, so I didn't feel like my reading experience suffered much from the initial disconnect. But I do get you, Erikson just keeps throwing us at different places and cultures out of nowhere, and it's kinda hard to find your footing, sometimes. It might be that I'm just used to it by now and don't feel too bothered by it. This is my favourite book so far, with Deadhouse Gates being my close second. But I'm in House of Chains now, so we'll see how that changes things
Kallor becomes more interesting, and is a fascinating character on re-read. But yeah, obvious on the first read. (Sort of like Tayschrenn, who is close to a pure villain on first read.) I loved the Gruntle stuff, but found it hard to sort out the Grey Swords at first, and the titles. The issue with the K’Chain is kind of like with the Moranth. They are so “other” that it’s basically impossible to think of them as characters. My favorite scene in the book is Quick Ben’s encounter with Korbal Broach.
Ok YES, it was the grey sword titles that I was just like ??? for the first bit. Gruntle became more interesting to me after the Tiger of Summer stuff started coming out. Quick Ben's encounter with literally anyone is the highlight of every book.
Great review! Always love your very insightful views and opinions. The next book House of Chains has some pretty dark stuff as well, but nothing is explicitly described and with hindsight, I understand why it was included (currently reading Book 7 Reaper's Gale). Felt very similar to you about the Greyswords at first, although I warmed up to them a bit sooner than you I think. With what I perceive your preferences in fantasy to be, I'm going to guess the following is going to happen: you'll struggle through book 4 the most (it's amongst the least favorite on first read for the majority of people it seems, although I loved it personally) , but will end up giving it something like 3.5 - 4 stars , then book 5 Midnight Tides will be your first 5 star Malazan book. Curious to see if end up being right! Happy Reading!
I was also indifferent to the Kchain Chemalle at first... but the farther you get in the series the more impact they start to have. I'm on book 9 and I think I'm finally starting to see why Erikson included them.
Love tracking your Malazan journey! I imagine you’re going to find things to get invested in and some things that don’t work in just about every one of the books, but it’ll be worth it for the epic stuff and interesting characters on the positive side of the ledger. I’m right with you on the themes in this particular book feeling too heavy handed.
Your experience with Part 2 mirrors my own!!! I nearly quit the series after it, because I did not care for GoTM and I liked DHG more, but was a bit let down by some things in the ending. But I'm SO glad I continued. Capustan in this book blew my mind, and I felt like the whole rest of the book after hitting Part 3 was over in a flash. Now I'm on book 6 and it is without a doubt going to be an all-time favorite by the time I'm done. What a ride 😂
7:52 I just finished book 3 and completely agree with this take. Its pretty disturbing, but seeing someone else say it the way you did made me laugh so much. 😂
Erickson does relationships a lot better than romances. The violence in MoI also reaches anime levels and is sonover the top. But aboutnthe dead seed and tennescowri, he feeds enough to get you brain going but not enough detail to linger on it. His descriptions of violence are a lot more clinical than voyeuristic that other authors are criticized for. Which seems at odds when you have the comic relief of Quick Ben and Lady Envy. But there is a lot of exposition in this book.
YES YES YES to your first statement! I felt similarly about Jordan. Erikson can write such great friendships or even tenuous ones that are so believable yet he just doesn’t apply it to romance.
@Bookborn There are conversations in a later book he says were 'inspired' by conversations with his wife. But, the WJ Korlat romance does get a lot of grief. Then you counter that with Hetan wanting to jump Itkovian's bones and he laments his vow of chastity, which is both serious and humorous.
@@EricMcLuen I think the Hetan thing was pretty funny, but it worked less for me because Lady Envy had a similar vibe with Toc, and so I wish it just wasn't repeated.
@@BookbornThere is a big difference between Envy and Hetan. Hetan explores her sexuality in a free way and has sex with different men for enjoyment and exploration, but from an equal perspective, she still respects those men as equals. Envy feels superior to everyone else and she flirts with Toc as if he is her plaything. For her its mostly flirting and trying to assert her superiority on Toc. So I think the vibes are different.
The series definately doesn't let up on some really heavy scenes. It usually isn't my thing either, but there is something about the way the scenes are handled that is hard not to appreciate.
Yeah, I don't think he's lingered on them in a gross way which helps me a lot. It did make it harder for me to see the "compassion" side of things thought when talking about the women who participated in creating children of the dead seed - I got the ~theme~ of it, but I side-eyed it - I certainly wouldn't be having any pity on them 🙃
@@Bookborn oh man. That was some seriously nasty stuff. I think book 4 had a few of the most disgusting characters. But I am glad he implies abuse happening rather than always dwell on the details.
I agree with your opinion of the K'Chain Che'Male. I didn't feel one way or another about them. I actually liked Gruntle and his story (though that may have to do with the his battle towards the end). I kind of can't wait to see what you think of the next book.
Really great review! I agree with the heavy handedness on the themes. Like I understand Compassion is going on right now bro 😂 even though for me it was the only 5 star book so far just in terms of execution, I think House of Chains and Midnight Tides brought up more insightful questions around themes and characters. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on those!
If it weren't for part 2, Memories would have been 5 stars. And I think a lot of my issues for part 2 would be fixed on a reread, so of the three I've read, it's actually the one I'd be most curious to reread after the series is done.
@@Bookborn Totally fair yeah, from what I remember, the beginning of the Grey Swords and their whole vibe threw me off a bit. So i can definitely get that. I just finished Midnight Tides in my first read through and with each book I'm like "I need to re-read this" lol
Glad you liked it overall! Interesting struggles… even tho I didn’t have the same struggles, your explanations and your reasoning were super clear and understandable so thanks for that 😊 So you really didn’t mention Itkovian - did the emotional impact of his sacrifice (ahem, there’s that “cost” theme) just not hit you because you were focused on feeling like the theme of compassion was hitting you over the head? Unfortunate either way, because for me and I think most people, Itkovian’s sacrifice and subsequent funeral are the scenes that make us tear up the most
You nailed it. As I've been reflecting, I've been appreciation Itkovian's sacrifice more; I just didn't love how it was explained to me constantly. Also, with my difficulty in connecting to the grey swords until much later in the narrative, didn't give me as much time to appreciate Itkovian. However, I think his would be the story line that would hit hardest on a reread.
@@Bookborn damn. Well it is what it is. At least you can pinpoint why it didn’t work for you, and why hopefully it’ll be better on reread! On to House of Chains 😁😁
Felt the same way, my brother. But I already bought the complete series so I forced myself to finish the second book. I think it was around the halfway point (when I started taking notes…) is when I really started to love the series. lol.
So happy you liked it. Love following your Malazan journey. Currently reading Midnight Tides myself. I was not struggling with part two as much as you did, but I can definitely see why it would be harder to be invested there. As for the K'chain Che'Malle. It is exactly what you say that made me admire Erikson's work here. The zombie dinosaurs with blades for arms, feel like any natural part of this world. I feel many authors would not get away with it, without being criticized for going over the top or fan boying. And then, as for Kallor. I actually thought his line was very interesting as he is already in the prologue. And it was not the question whether but how he would betray them. Well with devastating effect and probably some big future consequences. I do not think that confirming, rather than subverting expectations was cheap here. Nobody on the malazan side trusted Kallor one bit, but he was Brood's second. They could not do much about him. And Brood had faith he could control him. So basically a big mistake of a demi-god who is not used to be disobeyed.
I would've been fine with the Kallor thing if he hadn't just ridden up and "apologized" and "switched his opinion" and everyone was like "yep". That was the super unbelievable part to me. The silverfox stuff was believable because people only though he'd be a risk to her - but after what happens at the end, I Juts can't see a narrative reason that really justifies people's behavior towards him, personally.
I used to rag on Erikson for his romances, but then I looked at my dating history and physical history. Heck think back to being in middle school and hold hands and cuties and all that stuff. These are adults, battle hardened, lonely I think it makes sense fast bonds. Not sure if you have single friends in their 30s, but that whole I'm out of the 20s I know what I want fast love kidna stuff is how I've come to appreciate Erikson's relationships.
I am in my thirties and have single friends in their 30s and I still don’t think the romance is written well 🤣 it’s not fast bonds it’s the “you’re the love of my life I’d follow you anywhere” out of nowhere that feels very weird
@@Bookbornwhat you don’t Realize correctly: this is the army and it’s war. They know they can die “tomorrow”, hope is little, they live in that for years. The perspective is not of a person of peace and not in 30 but more in 40+ and who has nothing.
Oh I am too. Ha! Yeah the fact that there isn't romancing to get to love seems to me representative of 'i've already had my 'firsts' so now that those experiences are out of the way lets get to the point.' which for some if you've waited a long while for and are revitalized because of it... Yadda Yadda Love!
First I would say excellent video! You did a good job talking through your likes and dislikes and they all felt very valid. A couple of things I would point out to keep in mind while comparing this to other series. I LOVE Abercrombie and his characters are awesome and unique. He is also using basically none in comparison though. It's very easy to have unique voices when you have like 1/10th the cast. In A Little Hatred for example only 7 povs. This book alone has 42 unique povs. Book 10 of this series has 141 unique povs. Erikson is doing something completely different in scale and scope. So naturally there will be characters you feel will blend together. The "heavy-handed" themes are really only noticed because every single person you have heard on this platform mentions compassion 9 thousand times. In a way that is our fandoms fault but it definitely affects some readers enjoyment of scenes. The final point I will make is about Kallor. He is not a mustache-twirler but he also wasn't meant to be a subvert-er. Erikson literally had the scene in the prologue to tell you he will stop at nothing to kill Nightchill/Sister of cold nights. As far as that being out of character for Rake/Brood; a theme in the novels is sometimes you have to trust potential enemies because the mutual foe is potentially worse, in this case a cannibal army with a Jaghut tyrant at the helm. Erikson subverts so many tropes but sometimes he will have people who will do what you expect. That's why it felt so obvious because hes surprising you everywhere else that a blatant one feels out of place. Every now and again that is intentional to keep you honest and guessing. The last overall thing I will say is if the Children of the dead seed almost broke you I would personally tell you to probably stop here. He doesn't voyeuristically portray things but there are much more disturbing, real life, topics he discusses going forward. One real bad one in the next book. Even as a huge fan, who wants to hear everyones thoughts on books I love, would seriously tell you to consider just wrapping up here. If you do continue I hope you enjoy. Cheers!
I'm sorry some parts of the book didn't land for you. It's kind of inevitable, though, in a big, messy, complicated story - there are always going to be some element that's your favorite and something that's not. That's okay, though. Going forward, there's going to be more dark stuff - and while it's not always pleasant to read there's always a reason why it's there in the story.
Malazan book of the fallen is my favorite bit of literature, but I did find your review well considered. Never noticed but it's true the romances are a bit 0-100. Anyways really enjoyed the review.
Thinking back to my first read, I think I felt the same way about part 2 and the Grey Swords. Similar to the issue you had with Kallor, I don't think it's just the "optimising for re-reads" problem, I think it's also because the Malazan Book of the Fallen is really one long narrative, and the breaks between books are kind of arbitrary. Kallor is the thematic counterpoint to Erikson. Like two lawyers arguing each side of a case, you need to see both to get a full picture. Any one side's argument taken alone would seem completely unbalanced. Ruthan Badd's video "Eriksonian Nihilism.." is a great exploration of this, when you finish the series. On a completely different track - I would be interested to hear your thoughts at this point in the read about the Pannion Seer, the Jaghut and the Imass' war. We get Tool's point of view in Gardens and now we've seen a bit of the Jaghut side.
Great to hear your opinion sadly I am a bit late only finished MoI now, but I also really enjoyed it. Btw I began reading the series after I heard about the K'chain Che'malle, cause I thought they were a cool race idea😂
All of the Malazan books were difficult reads for me (or listens) because of the complexity of the storylines. All of the characters and worlds made it challenging for me to understand what was going on. These are not "easy" reads and I had to invest a lot of brain-power to understand the story. I finished all of the books and I have listened to most of the prequels also. When I relisted to GOTM, it made more sense because I knew where the story was going.
I just finished MOI, reading in order so already through GotM and CoD. They are all pretty slow going, but making my way. I liked MoI quite a lot, did not find that part 2 with Gruntle particularly more or less hard to stay with than the rest. For me there was a big letdown with the final battle for Coral. It felt like there was a big buildup to some super amazing thing the Pannion Seer was going to do, that only Anomander Rake and Caladan Brood could stop. But in the end it was basically just those 800 K'Chain Malle monsters. Well, there was the Seer's mother and that egg thing, which he was prevented from opening, though it was not made clear exactly what would have happened. It seems like only when Toc released the Wolf that our side could win the battle, when the T'lan Ay wolves appeared and were able to overcome the K'Chain Malle. My point is, where were Rake and Brood in all this, it seems like they could have stopped all of it themselves. The Hammer should have been able to stop the K'Chain Malle no? It was not clear why Rake waited so long to raise Moonspawn, it was practically over by then. Meanwhile thousands of soldiers died fighting against impossible odds and monsters, which seemed like a total waste of the army. Our side expected some kind of defense, but they didn't really do much to ferret it out. It would have been difficult to hide 800 huge sword-wielding dinosaurs even before they attracked, and once they appeared, why didn't Brood and Rake do something?
Rake could not do anything because he arrived late, and by late I mean he arrived at the correct time. Rake and Brood had already planned before to hide Moon's Spawn through magic in such a way that it will be impossible to find it and impossible to contact it. This was their secret plan just like Whiskeyjack and Dujek had their own plans. Once Rake was cut off there was no way for him to know whatbwas going on outside. Its the Malazans that reached early in Coral and started the fight, which forced Brood's force to come early. Rake didn't know it and he came at his correct time which was late for others since they were early. Regarding Brood, I kind of agree with you. He became busy with healing Korlat after arrival and didn't do anything else.
This is the darkest book in the series so you should be good in that sense! (well I am on book 8 atm so not fully in the clear yet!) I do agree with most of what you say, the love story between Parran and Tattersail (not in this book I know) never made any sense, and same with the other relationships, never really sold any of it to us. Sometimes I come to parts of a book were I just can't get invested enough to be 100% attentive and therefor miss out on parts of the story, not sure if that is going to matter in the long run or not as some of the story's does not feel relevant to the main story. That being said I am enyoing this series more and more as I am going along. You deserve more subs and views btw, quality content keep at it 💪
Ah Kallor, how I hate thee. And yet... BTW, book 4, I think I have mentioned before, I suspect will be a defining one for you. If you make it through that I think you'll finish the series. I'm just not sure you will, although hopefully you do.
Great review. Honestly, MoI isn't even Top 5 books in the series for me. Its like, 7th favourite. I'm much more of a Seven Cities guy. Agreed. If someone read Gardens and Deadhouse and didnt gel with them i don't see MoI winning them over. I always say unless they dislike Gardens at least try Deadhouse. I do remember Part Two being a bit of a stuggle for me as well but its been two years so im hazy. The Grey Swords eventually grew on me. Gruntle never did. I vastly preferred Stonny as a character. Whiskeyjack's death didn't hit as hard as i think it will on re-read because i cared about everyone else around him more. It was effective because i liked Korlat and so was invested in how thay could impact her or the bridgeburners. However, on my re-read of Gardens I loved him.
MOI is one of my 3 fav malazan books with Toll the Hounds and The Crippled God. fully agree with your good points. and I love that you will respect the parts that are a bit dark or graphic when they are handled well, and not abandon the book just because its there. it adds to the grit and the nasty of the world. There is one more spot in the later books (Dust of Dreams Chapter 15) that is extremely hard to read for this reason. its not a pleasent thing and ive seen several readers drop there serries for that comming scene alone. That coming one its the only part that i skip every read through. and ive read through 4-5 times. Kallor for me, and I dont know if this will change your own perspective, kind of goes against the modern trend of morrally grey characters. sooooooo many books now have character that do that exact turn/ biat and switch arc that kallor just being a terrible and predictibly objectively evil person, works for me. Kallor is one of my subtle favs for his consistencey in the serries and he is so understandably who he is. you look at his past, and imagine his life and how he is interacted with, he is always true to his character, and never does anything out of character for him, and in a 10+ book serries and 2 authors, its a testement that he is kept so consistent. Rake I love, glad you are warming to him :) But Quick ben is my fav character. top 5 characters: Quick ben Tehol Gesler Ganoes Paran Fiddler
Excuse me… a BREAK?!! Over the summer 🤯🤦🏻♂️ and there I was, excited to pick up House of Chains soon 😂… ah well, guess I’ll just have to read the rest of the Stormlight Archive and Dandelion Dynasty and maybe then you’ll be ready 🤷🏻♂️😉
I’m sorry 🤣😭 I want to be excited to pick it up again and not be forcing myself. Plus reading time goes down a lot in the summer for me because of Littles!
Great review! Idk if it was because this is the most hyped book in the entire series but MoI has been my least favorite entry in the series thus far. Part 2 of it was so boring. I'm on the sixth book and my favorite has remained Gardens of the Moon
KChain Chemalle hype and fame come from the later books. In Memories they were a very deadly enemy, but because there are so many overpowering characters, and many other undead things around, they do seem to kinda blend in. Kallor has... connections to other, more strategic things, which was the reason why he was considered a sort of an ally for some time. The other relatively more powerful characters tolerated his presence thinking they can take him down if he fs up. Surprising to hear you didnt like Lady Envy parts. I thought that was the second best part of the whole story. And one of the best sections of the whole Saga. *There are some really hard parts of the later books that you should probably skip over, but they are not any of the main plot and characters sections. I think you will be warned about those by friends. Its also not anything anyone would miss. All the readers and the story would be improved by cutting those out.
Ya even I found the Grey Swords boring, their over the top stoic honorable knight persona doesn't fit the books. Gruntle's switch after Stonny's rape came out of nowhere. I think it would have been much better if it was Stonny who got Trake's powers after what happened to her. I also didn't like what SE did with Toc's character. Kallor is really complex the more you read about him, him betraying them was ok I guess, Whiskyjack's not healing his leg felt too tropey to me, I don't really like him being killed, too much wasted potential just for the sake of a sad ending. It might seem that I didn't like the book but that's not the case, SE has a weird writing style and imo while his writing style improves the books in many places it also does the opposite in other places.
@@SouravUldyssian ya I know...but everything around that feels very convoluted. I think (complete tin foil) SE during that reveal was subtly implying that he regretted killing him.
Interestingly I had the opposite reaction regarding ***SPOILERS BELOW *** Kallor's betrayal vs Whiskey Jack's death. I didn't love how WJ died with his leg giving out. They kept drawing attention to that throughout the book, I assumed it was a red herring. I really thought he had faked with death with an illusion and that was the plan for him to retire - he did have his leg fixed but they made it look like he didn't. For them to draw so much attention to it and then play it straight really surprised me. It was too much emphasis before the payoff IMO. Meanwhile, Kallor felt like the type of thing you are vaguely concerned about if you're everyone else, but you've got so much else going on you keep pushing it off because you don't really believe he'll completely betray you - 'he's untrustworthy but would he really do *that* and join the CG?' - so you keep not dealing with it until it's too late and it blows up in your face. Overall though, really loved this book. Finally felt like I wasn't drowning in information. (I'm doing my first read of the series, currently midway through The Bonehunters FWIW)
But compassion was the main theme, also compassion gone too far. Anomander and Brood showed compassion to Kallor, besides they are next thing to immortal, Kallor is like... Well someone they tolerate and do not see him as a threat. Wrong assumption maybe, but they are not looking out for the humans, they expect that they look out for themselves. I can completely understand the grey swords being a chore though I liked gruntle and his struggles. Book 4 has some difficult themes and you return to 7 cities, so it will be a struggle for you I guess. I predict that books 4 and 7 will be the toughest for you to get through even though there are great parts in both books.
GotM was great, DG was a masterpiece from start to finish, and… MoI was by far my least favorite 😬 Am I alone in this?? Loved certain parts of it, but I agree with all the negatives in this video. This was convoluted, characters were VERY samey, the magic system explanations were sometimes interesting and sometimes extremely confusing, the entire middle section of this was a slog, Kallor was a mustache-twirling villain from start to finish, there were unearned deus ex machina possessions throughout, etc. How is this everyone’s favorite?! I’m sticking with Malazan bc I loved the first two (and admittedly parts of this) but I was surprised about how much I disliked this one.
I liked Memories of Ice. But for me, it was the strongest book in the series, and things fell off after it. I ultimately DNFed in the middle of Reaper’s Gale. So I guess what I’d say is that if the series isn’t clicking now, you absolutely should stop. But even if it is clicking… the series may still not be for you
You probably made the right decision. While there are cool things about this series, Erikson's insistence on witholding so much information from the reader makes large parts of every book feel slow and meandering. I am almost 400 pages into book 10 and i still feel like i only have a vague grasp of many of the factions' goals and plans, which plotlines were most important to the main story, etc.
@@vivamortua It went back to feeling like a chore for me in book 4, and just never stopped. I so rarely DNF books/series but I just was hating reading it.
Now why booktubers think that they can read serious books parallel to a Malazan book? At least slowly? Only those can who do this for a living. (Not working anything else really.) So that’s why you have lot of your issues. Your review is great, shows your understanding. 👏👏 Fantastic. But this parallel reading can stop you seriously.
@@Bookborn you said Joe Abercrombie in your video, not me. And 4 weeks? On audio book? Btw: how did it work? Not that I’m against audiobooks, I was one of those who actually created one of the audiobook player software. But I agree with Brittany (the booktuber) that in this case she had to pick up the paper version and read again. But anyway. 7 weeks. Even if I calculate it with the days of working it’s almost 20. For 200 pages. So simply put: 10 pages / day. But anyway. Keep holding on, you didn’t get yet SE’s character description method. That’s why you couldn’t get the Shield Anvil from the beginning. You are not clicking on the writing method still. That’s all. Actually it’s how sci-fi characters work and some classical literature. (Exactly short story several times) and it’s very rare in fantasy (I don’t know if there is any.) that’s why.
@@nazimelmardi You said "Now why booktubers think that they can read serious books parallel to a Malazan book? At least slowly? Only those can who do this for a living. (Not working anything else really.)" So...you did tell me my parallel reading or something was why I didn't like shield anvil? I think that's strange, tbh. I grew up reading a lot of classic lit, and I've read sci-fi. Some things aren't going to click for me in a series like Malazan - it doesn't mean I "Don't get it" or I'm "doing it wrong"...it means what it means, that some characters don't work for me.
@@Bookborn I meant by sci-fi those that use characters to represent as much as act. Three-Body Problem, Culture, Lem’s books, etc… in this case even Quick Ben… not just his fun actions are what matters. The fact he acted a small kindness with Paran is what matters to Pannion. The question of the book there: was he really the “ultimate bad guy”? Or the Imass who wronged a child? Or the god behind? No answer you have to decide. In this similar to hard sci-fi. And there a lot of small questions in it with Gray Swords too about religion, brotherhood, sacrifice, power of faith, challenge of yourself in religious beliefs and so on… Was Kallor really bad in what he said? Or we just thought bc he is a “bad guy”? Things like that…Act you necessarily the same as the truth. Not always the “good” says the correct answer.
Yes, I agree with you on Kallor. Was he just a device used to get the story to where it needed to go? How could Caladan Brood, Wiskeyjack, and Anomander Rake not see through this "clown" based on his history. There is a huge difference between compassion/mercy and stupidity and this reminded me a lot of what Batman does with the Joker. Nevertheless, great video and I am glad the Tenescowri storyline did not push you away from this series.
WHERE IS SEE YOU AFTER THE JUMP WHAT THE HECK
She's working for Kruppe, Jimmy!
Asking the real questions here
This is crazy but...I legit just forgot it 🥲 I was editing and was like...where did it go
There was a blip in the gravitational field. The jump will be back shortly.
Did you drop the series after this?
To the Kallor point... It was obvious, and was supposed to be obvious, especially from the prologue... You have to remember, Rake, Brood and Kallor are all millennia old, and have all known each other for thousands of years. Rake and Brood both knew Kallor would eventually lash out at Silverfox regardless of their protections because of the curse Nightchill/The Sister of Cold Nights put on him with K'Rul and Draconus after he nuked his empire. Rake trusted Whiskeyjack to handle the threat, and he did, he had Kallor beat, until his knee gave out... which happened because of reasons...
His heavy-handedness on themes is intentional. I remember him talking about this in an interview. He doesn't want to be subtle about them. "If you want to discuss them, you better actually talk about them" is his philosophy. The more you progress, the more you will realize it.
That's fine that it's intentional, but it is a personal thing that I don't like in any book. I have complained recently of recent hugo winners being "too on the nose" and "too obvious" with themes; it's a personal thing that I just like more subtley.
At the time of reading, MoI was my favorite. I felt so rewarded like I finally started to understand what was going on. Also I kinda agree with the K'Chain Che'Malle. I understand that in a series with undead races, flying mountain cities, and such, a dinosaur race should fit right in. I just think something else could've filled that role and made it a bit more harmonious, at least for me. I actually just finished the main 10, and I feel immediately inspired to reread the series. Supposedly that's where the series really shines.
I really hope you keep reading the series. I enjoy hearing your takes on it.
Yeah I can already see why rereading the series makes it even better; I've already had the urge to reread after Memories of Ice because I feel like I understand things so much better now.
@@Bookborn the reread shines after you finish the whole series, not after the individual book. Not saying you shouldn't reread MoI if you feel inspired, but once you have ingested the entire series and then go reread, holy crap... its amazing
I just finished this book earlier today and wow... These books just keep getting better and better.
Yeah, Quick Ben was AWESOME in this book. I've also always put him in my top 5, and it was great to have so much of him in this one. Dude's a menace. And I also really liked the Mhybe stuff, I thought it was very much heartbreaking seeing her go through all that.
About Kallor, I agree it was obvious to the readers, but I can definitely see why someone like Brood wouldn't see it. Kallor wasn't acting evil, he just hated Silverfox. And, I mean, Brood and Kallor had been working together for a LONG time, and Brood trusted Kallor enough to have him as second in command. Sure, he sometimes needed to put him in his place, but that was it. So I can see why he'd not foresee the betrayal (not to mention that we saw the scene of him being offered a role in the newly founded House of Chains, which the other characters didn't see). So I actually think it was good. I was mad that he was able to catch everyone off guard, but I'm interested in seeing the House of Chains being formed and how that will progress throughout the series.
And I get your feelings on part 2, but I think it payed off in the end. Once I understood the political setting of Capustan and saw the Grey Swords doing their thing, I was fine with it. And Gruntle and Itkovian were characters I liked a lot by the end of the book, so I didn't feel like my reading experience suffered much from the initial disconnect. But I do get you, Erikson just keeps throwing us at different places and cultures out of nowhere, and it's kinda hard to find your footing, sometimes. It might be that I'm just used to it by now and don't feel too bothered by it.
This is my favourite book so far, with Deadhouse Gates being my close second. But I'm in House of Chains now, so we'll see how that changes things
Kallor becomes more interesting, and is a fascinating character on re-read. But yeah, obvious on the first read. (Sort of like Tayschrenn, who is close to a pure villain on first read.)
I loved the Gruntle stuff, but found it hard to sort out the Grey Swords at first, and the titles. The issue with the K’Chain is kind of like with the Moranth. They are so “other” that it’s basically impossible to think of them as characters.
My favorite scene in the book is Quick Ben’s encounter with Korbal Broach.
Ok YES, it was the grey sword titles that I was just like ??? for the first bit. Gruntle became more interesting to me after the Tiger of Summer stuff started coming out.
Quick Ben's encounter with literally anyone is the highlight of every book.
Great review! Always love your very insightful views and opinions. The next book House of Chains has some pretty dark stuff as well, but nothing is explicitly described and with hindsight, I understand why it was included (currently reading Book 7 Reaper's Gale). Felt very similar to you about the Greyswords at first, although I warmed up to them a bit sooner than you I think.
With what I perceive your preferences in fantasy to be, I'm going to guess the following is going to happen: you'll struggle through book 4 the most (it's amongst the least favorite on first read for the majority of people it seems, although I loved it personally) , but will end up giving it something like 3.5 - 4 stars , then book 5 Midnight Tides will be your first 5 star Malazan book. Curious to see if end up being right!
Happy Reading!
I love a bold prediction and I hope you're right that Midnight Tides is the 5 star! That would be fun
Karsa's arc is fkn dark as hell, I think you hit the nail squarely.
@@BookbornMT is by far my favorite in the series.
I honestly feel like the Chain of Dogs sequence from book 2 is the darkest material in the whole series.
I was also indifferent to the Kchain Chemalle at first... but the farther you get in the series the more impact they start to have. I'm on book 9 and I think I'm finally starting to see why Erikson included them.
Damn it's been so long, hope you get back to this series soon
Love tracking your Malazan journey! I imagine you’re going to find things to get invested in and some things that don’t work in just about every one of the books, but it’ll be worth it for the epic stuff and interesting characters on the positive side of the ledger. I’m right with you on the themes in this particular book feeling too heavy handed.
Your experience with Part 2 mirrors my own!!! I nearly quit the series after it, because I did not care for GoTM and I liked DHG more, but was a bit let down by some things in the ending. But I'm SO glad I continued. Capustan in this book blew my mind, and I felt like the whole rest of the book after hitting Part 3 was over in a flash. Now I'm on book 6 and it is without a doubt going to be an all-time favorite by the time I'm done. What a ride 😂
7:52 I just finished book 3 and completely agree with this take. Its pretty disturbing, but seeing someone else say it the way you did made me laugh so much. 😂
Erikson really did Kallor dirty.
Luckily we have Esslemont to rescue the High King from this character assassination in Blood and Bone.
Yay another malazan review. Memories of Ice was the book where the series really started to click for me
Yeah and in many ways I think it's clicking for me now, too. I feel like I have a handle on things finally haha
Did you ever get to book 4?
@@esteban280889I am interested too
Why didnt I know you were a hater for FRICKEN velociraptors with FRICKEN swords for FRICKEN arms
Yep. New fantasy races needed for a long time… and she don’t know yet. 👀
Erickson does relationships a lot better than romances.
The violence in MoI also reaches anime levels and is sonover the top.
But aboutnthe dead seed and tennescowri, he feeds enough to get you brain going but not enough detail to linger on it. His descriptions of violence are a lot more clinical than voyeuristic that other authors are criticized for.
Which seems at odds when you have the comic relief of Quick Ben and Lady Envy.
But there is a lot of exposition in this book.
YES YES YES to your first statement! I felt similarly about Jordan. Erikson can write such great friendships or even tenuous ones that are so believable yet he just doesn’t apply it to romance.
@Bookborn There are conversations in a later book he says were 'inspired' by conversations with his wife.
But, the WJ Korlat romance does get a lot of grief.
Then you counter that with Hetan wanting to jump Itkovian's bones and he laments his vow of chastity, which is both serious and humorous.
@@EricMcLuen I think the Hetan thing was pretty funny, but it worked less for me because Lady Envy had a similar vibe with Toc, and so I wish it just wasn't repeated.
@@BookbornThere is a big difference between Envy and Hetan. Hetan explores her sexuality in a free way and has sex with different men for enjoyment and exploration, but from an equal perspective, she still respects those men as equals. Envy feels superior to everyone else and she flirts with Toc as if he is her plaything. For her its mostly flirting and trying to assert her superiority on Toc. So I think the vibes are different.
The series definately doesn't let up on some really heavy scenes. It usually isn't my thing either, but there is something about the way the scenes are handled that is hard not to appreciate.
Yeah, I don't think he's lingered on them in a gross way which helps me a lot. It did make it harder for me to see the "compassion" side of things thought when talking about the women who participated in creating children of the dead seed - I got the ~theme~ of it, but I side-eyed it - I certainly wouldn't be having any pity on them 🙃
@@Bookborn oh man. That was some seriously nasty stuff. I think book 4 had a few of the most disgusting characters. But I am glad he implies abuse happening rather than always dwell on the details.
I agree with your opinion of the K'Chain Che'Male. I didn't feel one way or another about them. I actually liked Gruntle and his story (though that may have to do with the his battle towards the end). I kind of can't wait to see what you think of the next book.
I def warmed up to Gruntle a LOT after part 2, especially because the tiger stuff was so interesting.
R. Scott Bakker's "Prince of Nothing" next?
Really great review! I agree with the heavy handedness on the themes. Like I understand Compassion is going on right now bro 😂 even though for me it was the only 5 star book so far just in terms of execution, I think House of Chains and Midnight Tides brought up more insightful questions around themes and characters. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on those!
If it weren't for part 2, Memories would have been 5 stars. And I think a lot of my issues for part 2 would be fixed on a reread, so of the three I've read, it's actually the one I'd be most curious to reread after the series is done.
@@Bookborn Totally fair yeah, from what I remember, the beginning of the Grey Swords and their whole vibe threw me off a bit. So i can definitely get that. I just finished Midnight Tides in my first read through and with each book I'm like "I need to re-read this" lol
Glad you liked it overall! Interesting struggles… even tho I didn’t have the same struggles, your explanations and your reasoning were super clear and understandable so thanks for that 😊
So you really didn’t mention Itkovian - did the emotional impact of his sacrifice (ahem, there’s that “cost” theme) just not hit you because you were focused on feeling like the theme of compassion was hitting you over the head? Unfortunate either way, because for me and I think most people, Itkovian’s sacrifice and subsequent funeral are the scenes that make us tear up the most
You nailed it. As I've been reflecting, I've been appreciation Itkovian's sacrifice more; I just didn't love how it was explained to me constantly. Also, with my difficulty in connecting to the grey swords until much later in the narrative, didn't give me as much time to appreciate Itkovian. However, I think his would be the story line that would hit hardest on a reread.
@@Bookborn damn. Well it is what it is. At least you can pinpoint why it didn’t work for you, and why hopefully it’ll be better on reread! On to House of Chains 😁😁
I made it through the first book and a bit of the second book and had to bow out, I actually had no idea what was going on
Felt the same way, my brother. But I already bought the complete series so I forced myself to finish the second book.
I think it was around the halfway point (when I started taking notes…) is when I really started to love the series. lol.
So happy you liked it. Love following your Malazan journey. Currently reading Midnight Tides myself. I was not struggling with part two as much as you did, but I can definitely see why it would be harder to be invested there.
As for the K'chain Che'Malle. It is exactly what you say that made me admire Erikson's work here. The zombie dinosaurs with blades for arms, feel like any natural part of this world. I feel many authors would not get away with it, without being criticized for going over the top or fan boying.
And then, as for Kallor. I actually thought his line was very interesting as he is already in the prologue. And it was not the question whether but how he would betray them. Well with devastating effect and probably some big future consequences. I do not think that confirming, rather than subverting expectations was cheap here. Nobody on the malazan side trusted Kallor one bit, but he was Brood's second. They could not do much about him. And Brood had faith he could control him. So basically a big mistake of a demi-god who is not used to be disobeyed.
I would've been fine with the Kallor thing if he hadn't just ridden up and "apologized" and "switched his opinion" and everyone was like "yep". That was the super unbelievable part to me. The silverfox stuff was believable because people only though he'd be a risk to her - but after what happens at the end, I Juts can't see a narrative reason that really justifies people's behavior towards him, personally.
@@Bookborn ah like that. Yes, sorry. It's been a while I forgot the specific scene. I can understand that'd make them feel naive 😅
I used to rag on Erikson for his romances, but then I looked at my dating history and physical history. Heck think back to being in middle school and hold hands and cuties and all that stuff. These are adults, battle hardened, lonely I think it makes sense fast bonds. Not sure if you have single friends in their 30s, but that whole I'm out of the 20s I know what I want fast love kidna stuff is how I've come to appreciate Erikson's relationships.
I am in my thirties and have single friends in their 30s and I still don’t think the romance is written well 🤣 it’s not fast bonds it’s the “you’re the love of my life I’d follow you anywhere” out of nowhere that feels very weird
@@Bookbornwhat you don’t Realize correctly: this is the army and it’s war. They know they can die “tomorrow”, hope is little, they live in that for years. The perspective is not of a person of peace and not in 30 but more in 40+ and who has nothing.
Oh I am too. Ha! Yeah the fact that there isn't romancing to get to love seems to me representative of 'i've already had my 'firsts' so now that those experiences are out of the way lets get to the point.' which for some if you've waited a long while for and are revitalized because of it... Yadda Yadda Love!
Yaaay more Malazan homies 🎉❤
First I would say excellent video! You did a good job talking through your likes and dislikes and they all felt very valid. A couple of things I would point out to keep in mind while comparing this to other series. I LOVE Abercrombie and his characters are awesome and unique. He is also using basically none in comparison though. It's very easy to have unique voices when you have like 1/10th the cast. In A Little Hatred for example only 7 povs. This book alone has 42 unique povs. Book 10 of this series has 141 unique povs. Erikson is doing something completely different in scale and scope. So naturally there will be characters you feel will blend together. The "heavy-handed" themes are really only noticed because every single person you have heard on this platform mentions compassion 9 thousand times. In a way that is our fandoms fault but it definitely affects some readers enjoyment of scenes. The final point I will make is about Kallor. He is not a mustache-twirler but he also wasn't meant to be a subvert-er. Erikson literally had the scene in the prologue to tell you he will stop at nothing to kill Nightchill/Sister of cold nights. As far as that being out of character for Rake/Brood; a theme in the novels is sometimes you have to trust potential enemies because the mutual foe is potentially worse, in this case a cannibal army with a Jaghut tyrant at the helm. Erikson subverts so many tropes but sometimes he will have people who will do what you expect. That's why it felt so obvious because hes surprising you everywhere else that a blatant one feels out of place. Every now and again that is intentional to keep you honest and guessing. The last overall thing I will say is if the Children of the dead seed almost broke you I would personally tell you to probably stop here. He doesn't voyeuristically portray things but there are much more disturbing, real life, topics he discusses going forward. One real bad one in the next book. Even as a huge fan, who wants to hear everyones thoughts on books I love, would seriously tell you to consider just wrapping up here. If you do continue I hope you enjoy. Cheers!
I really enjoyed MOL as well, thanks for a great review!
I have about 15 pages left.. still no idea whats going on but I like the book haha
I'm sorry some parts of the book didn't land for you. It's kind of inevitable, though, in a big, messy, complicated story - there are always going to be some element that's your favorite and something that's not. That's okay, though. Going forward, there's going to be more dark stuff - and while it's not always pleasant to read there's always a reason why it's there in the story.
Yeah everyone has said there is always a reason for the dark stuff to be a part of the story, so I'm trying to trust the process!
Thanks for this great review. Loved this book. Itkovian, the Greyswords and Gruntle were some of my favourites. 😊😂 Couldn't care less for Silverfox. 🤭
Malazan book of the fallen is my favorite bit of literature, but I did find your review well considered. Never noticed but it's true the romances are a bit 0-100. Anyways really enjoyed the review.
Thinking back to my first read, I think I felt the same way about part 2 and the Grey Swords. Similar to the issue you had with Kallor, I don't think it's just the "optimising for re-reads" problem, I think it's also because the Malazan Book of the Fallen is really one long narrative, and the breaks between books are kind of arbitrary.
Kallor is the thematic counterpoint to Erikson. Like two lawyers arguing each side of a case, you need to see both to get a full picture. Any one side's argument taken alone would seem completely unbalanced. Ruthan Badd's video "Eriksonian Nihilism.." is a great exploration of this, when you finish the series.
On a completely different track - I would be interested to hear your thoughts at this point in the read about the Pannion Seer, the Jaghut and the Imass' war. We get Tool's point of view in Gardens and now we've seen a bit of the Jaghut side.
Great to hear your opinion sadly I am a bit late only finished MoI now, but I also really enjoyed it. Btw I began reading the series after I heard about the K'chain Che'malle, cause I thought they were a cool race idea😂
2:43 yay!! Quick Ben 💯 with you on this
All of the Malazan books were difficult reads for me (or listens) because of the complexity of the storylines. All of the characters and worlds made it challenging for me to understand what was going on. These are not "easy" reads and I had to invest a lot of brain-power to understand the story. I finished all of the books and I have listened to most of the prequels also. When I relisted to GOTM, it made more sense because I knew where the story was going.
I just finished MOI, reading in order so already through GotM and CoD. They are all pretty slow going, but making my way. I liked MoI quite a lot, did not find that part 2 with Gruntle particularly more or less hard to stay with than the rest. For me there was a big letdown with the final battle for Coral. It felt like there was a big buildup to some super amazing thing the Pannion Seer was going to do, that only Anomander Rake and Caladan Brood could stop. But in the end it was basically just those 800 K'Chain Malle monsters. Well, there was the Seer's mother and that egg thing, which he was prevented from opening, though it was not made clear exactly what would have happened. It seems like only when Toc released the Wolf that our side could win the battle, when the T'lan Ay wolves appeared and were able to overcome the K'Chain Malle. My point is, where were Rake and Brood in all this, it seems like they could have stopped all of it themselves. The Hammer should have been able to stop the K'Chain Malle no? It was not clear why Rake waited so long to raise Moonspawn, it was practically over by then. Meanwhile thousands of soldiers died fighting against impossible odds and monsters, which seemed like a total waste of the army. Our side expected some kind of defense, but they didn't really do much to ferret it out. It would have been difficult to hide 800 huge sword-wielding dinosaurs even before they attracked, and once they appeared, why didn't Brood and Rake do something?
Rake could not do anything because he arrived late, and by late I mean he arrived at the correct time. Rake and Brood had already planned before to hide Moon's Spawn through magic in such a way that it will be impossible to find it and impossible to contact it. This was their secret plan just like Whiskeyjack and Dujek had their own plans. Once Rake was cut off there was no way for him to know whatbwas going on outside. Its the Malazans that reached early in Coral and started the fight, which forced Brood's force to come early. Rake didn't know it and he came at his correct time which was late for others since they were early.
Regarding Brood, I kind of agree with you. He became busy with healing Korlat after arrival and didn't do anything else.
This is the darkest book in the series so you should be good in that sense! (well I am on book 8 atm so not fully in the clear yet!)
I do agree with most of what you say, the love story between Parran and Tattersail (not in this book I know) never made any sense, and same with the other relationships, never really sold any of it to us.
Sometimes I come to parts of a book were I just can't get invested enough to be 100% attentive and therefor miss out on parts of the story, not sure if that is going to matter in the long run or not as some of the story's does not feel relevant to the main story.
That being said I am enyoing this series more and more as I am going along.
You deserve more subs and views btw, quality content keep at it 💪
Some parts of this series are just a struggle to stay interested in. I’m on Reaper’s Gale and I’ve struggled so much with it.
Ah Kallor, how I hate thee. And yet...
BTW, book 4, I think I have mentioned before, I suspect will be a defining one for you. If you make it through that I think you'll finish the series. I'm just not sure you will, although hopefully you do.
Great review.
Honestly, MoI isn't even Top 5 books in the series for me. Its like, 7th favourite. I'm much more of a Seven Cities guy.
Agreed. If someone read Gardens and Deadhouse and didnt gel with them i don't see MoI winning them over. I always say unless they dislike Gardens at least try Deadhouse.
I do remember Part Two being a bit of a stuggle for me as well but its been two years so im hazy. The Grey Swords eventually grew on me. Gruntle never did. I vastly preferred Stonny as a character.
Whiskeyjack's death didn't hit as hard as i think it will on re-read because i cared about everyone else around him more. It was effective because i liked Korlat and so was invested in how thay could impact her or the bridgeburners. However, on my re-read of Gardens I loved him.
Hetan and Lady Envy, similar? Huh?
Agree on Kallor, he was so obvious
Give Kallor time. You will discover a lot of details about him in book 8.
MOI is one of my 3 fav malazan books with Toll the Hounds and The Crippled God.
fully agree with your good points. and I love that you will respect the parts that are a bit dark or graphic when they are handled well, and not abandon the book just because its there. it adds to the grit and the nasty of the world. There is one more spot in the later books (Dust of Dreams Chapter 15) that is extremely hard to read for this reason. its not a pleasent thing and ive seen several readers drop there serries for that comming scene alone. That coming one its the only part that i skip every read through. and ive read through 4-5 times.
Kallor for me, and I dont know if this will change your own perspective, kind of goes against the modern trend of morrally grey characters. sooooooo many books now have character that do that exact turn/ biat and switch arc that kallor just being a terrible and predictibly objectively evil person, works for me. Kallor is one of my subtle favs for his consistencey in the serries and he is so understandably who he is. you look at his past, and imagine his life and how he is interacted with, he is always true to his character, and never does anything out of character for him, and in a 10+ book serries and 2 authors, its a testement that he is kept so consistent.
Rake I love, glad you are warming to him :) But Quick ben is my fav character.
top 5 characters:
Quick ben
Tehol
Gesler
Ganoes Paran
Fiddler
Excuse me… a BREAK?!! Over the summer 🤯🤦🏻♂️ and there I was, excited to pick up House of Chains soon 😂… ah well, guess I’ll just have to read the rest of the Stormlight Archive and Dandelion Dynasty and maybe then you’ll be ready 🤷🏻♂️😉
PS, great video, love your thoughts about MoI 😁
I’m sorry 🤣😭 I want to be excited to pick it up again and not be forcing myself. Plus reading time goes down a lot in the summer for me because of Littles!
@@Bookborn of course!! I’m just being cheeky, because I love following you and Kyle’s journey… I guess kids are a good reason to read a bit less 😊
Quick Ben is the real MVP
Great review! Idk if it was because this is the most hyped book in the entire series but MoI has been my least favorite entry in the series thus far. Part 2 of it was so boring. I'm on the sixth book and my favorite has remained Gardens of the Moon
KChain Chemalle hype and fame come from the later books. In Memories they were a very deadly enemy, but because there are so many overpowering characters, and many other undead things around, they do seem to kinda blend in.
Kallor has... connections to other, more strategic things, which was the reason why he was considered a sort of an ally for some time. The other relatively more powerful characters tolerated his presence thinking they can take him down if he fs up.
Surprising to hear you didnt like Lady Envy parts. I thought that was the second best part of the whole story. And one of the best sections of the whole Saga.
*There are some really hard parts of the later books that you should probably skip over, but they are not any of the main plot and characters sections. I think you will be warned about those by friends. Its also not anything anyone would miss. All the readers and the story would be improved by cutting those out.
best series, best author ever
Ya even I found the Grey Swords boring, their over the top stoic honorable knight persona doesn't fit the books. Gruntle's switch after Stonny's rape came out of nowhere. I think it would have been much better if it was Stonny who got Trake's powers after what happened to her. I also didn't like what SE did with Toc's character. Kallor is really complex the more you read about him, him betraying them was ok I guess, Whiskyjack's not healing his leg felt too tropey to me, I don't really like him being killed, too much wasted potential just for the sake of a sad ending. It might seem that I didn't like the book but that's not the case, SE has a weird writing style and imo while his writing style improves the books in many places it also does the opposite in other places.
Tbh I was ok with him dying this early because he's had his time as a Bridgeburner and soldier of the Malazan Empire.
Oooh I really like the idea of Stonny getting Trake's powers. I found her storyline to be a tad more interesting.
Why Whiskeyjack didn't heal his leg, will be told in a future book by other characters.
@@SouravUldyssian ya I know...but everything around that feels very convoluted. I think (complete tin foil) SE during that reveal was subtly implying that he regretted killing him.
Interestingly I had the opposite reaction regarding ***SPOILERS BELOW ***
Kallor's betrayal vs Whiskey Jack's death. I didn't love how WJ died with his leg giving out. They kept drawing attention to that throughout the book, I assumed it was a red herring. I really thought he had faked with death with an illusion and that was the plan for him to retire - he did have his leg fixed but they made it look like he didn't. For them to draw so much attention to it and then play it straight really surprised me. It was too much emphasis before the payoff IMO. Meanwhile, Kallor felt like the type of thing you are vaguely concerned about if you're everyone else, but you've got so much else going on you keep pushing it off because you don't really believe he'll completely betray you - 'he's untrustworthy but would he really do *that* and join the CG?' - so you keep not dealing with it until it's too late and it blows up in your face.
Overall though, really loved this book. Finally felt like I wasn't drowning in information. (I'm doing my first read of the series, currently midway through The Bonehunters FWIW)
But compassion was the main theme, also compassion gone too far. Anomander and Brood showed compassion to Kallor, besides they are next thing to immortal, Kallor is like... Well someone they tolerate and do not see him as a threat.
Wrong assumption maybe, but they are not looking out for the humans, they expect that they look out for themselves.
I can completely understand the grey swords being a chore though I liked gruntle and his struggles.
Book 4 has some difficult themes and you return to 7 cities, so it will be a struggle for you I guess. I predict that books 4 and 7 will be the toughest for you to get through even though there are great parts in both books.
Some spoilers about kallor ,,,,,I think the betrayal was expected and guarded against
GotM was great, DG was a masterpiece from start to finish, and… MoI was by far my least favorite 😬 Am I alone in this?? Loved certain parts of it, but I agree with all the negatives in this video. This was convoluted, characters were VERY samey, the magic system explanations were sometimes interesting and sometimes extremely confusing, the entire middle section of this was a slog, Kallor was a mustache-twirling villain from start to finish, there were unearned deus ex machina possessions throughout, etc. How is this everyone’s favorite?! I’m sticking with Malazan bc I loved the first two (and admittedly parts of this) but I was surprised about how much I disliked this one.
Great review! But also Erikson*
Thank you!! I always get that wrong. Fixing now
I liked Memories of Ice. But for me, it was the strongest book in the series, and things fell off after it. I ultimately DNFed in the middle of Reaper’s Gale. So I guess what I’d say is that if the series isn’t clicking now, you absolutely should stop. But even if it is clicking… the series may still not be for you
You probably made the right decision. While there are cool things about this series, Erikson's insistence on witholding so much information from the reader makes large parts of every book feel slow and meandering. I am almost 400 pages into book 10 and i still feel like i only have a vague grasp of many of the factions' goals and plans, which plotlines were most important to the main story, etc.
@@vivamortua It went back to feeling like a chore for me in book 4, and just never stopped. I so rarely DNF books/series but I just was hating reading it.
Now why booktubers think that they can read serious books parallel to a Malazan book? At least slowly? Only those can who do this for a living. (Not working anything else really.) So that’s why you have lot of your issues. Your review is great, shows your understanding. 👏👏 Fantastic. But this parallel reading can stop you seriously.
I listened to a single book in 7 weeks while reading this, hardly parallel reading Lmao
@@Bookborn you said Joe Abercrombie in your video, not me. And 4 weeks? On audio book? Btw: how did it work? Not that I’m against audiobooks, I was one of those who actually created one of the audiobook player software. But I agree with Brittany (the booktuber) that in this case she had to pick up the paper version and read again. But anyway. 7 weeks. Even if I calculate it with the days of working it’s almost 20. For 200 pages. So simply put: 10 pages / day. But anyway. Keep holding on, you didn’t get yet SE’s character description method. That’s why you couldn’t get the Shield Anvil from the beginning. You are not clicking on the writing method still. That’s all. Actually it’s how sci-fi characters work and some classical literature. (Exactly short story several times) and it’s very rare in fantasy (I don’t know if there is any.) that’s why.
@@nazimelmardi You said "Now why booktubers think that they can read serious books parallel to a Malazan book? At least slowly? Only those can who do this for a living. (Not working anything else really.)" So...you did tell me my parallel reading or something was why I didn't like shield anvil? I think that's strange, tbh. I grew up reading a lot of classic lit, and I've read sci-fi. Some things aren't going to click for me in a series like Malazan - it doesn't mean I "Don't get it" or I'm "doing it wrong"...it means what it means, that some characters don't work for me.
@@Bookborn I meant by sci-fi those that use characters to represent as much as act. Three-Body Problem, Culture, Lem’s books, etc… in this case even Quick Ben… not just his fun actions are what matters. The fact he acted a small kindness with Paran is what matters to Pannion. The question of the book there: was he really the “ultimate bad guy”? Or the Imass who wronged a child? Or the god behind? No answer you have to decide. In this similar to hard sci-fi. And there a lot of small questions in it with Gray Swords too about religion, brotherhood, sacrifice, power of faith, challenge of yourself in religious beliefs and so on… Was Kallor really bad in what he said? Or we just thought bc he is a “bad guy”? Things like that…Act you necessarily the same as the truth. Not always the “good” says the correct answer.
Yes, I agree with you on Kallor. Was he just a device used to get the story to where it needed to go? How could Caladan Brood, Wiskeyjack, and Anomander Rake not see through this "clown" based on his history. There is a huge difference between compassion/mercy and stupidity and this reminded me a lot of what Batman does with the Joker. Nevertheless, great video and I am glad the Tenescowri storyline did not push you away from this series.