The fact that (some) people make it seem like TS% is an “nba nerd” stat that doesn’t give a true indication of a players efficiency is mind boggling. You’re telling me that TS% is a nerdier stat than VORP??
Great video,and it explains a lot. Much appreciated,man! I'm wondering why "Per 36" is a thing,and not "Per 48",like the way baseball uses "per 9 innings" for pitchers,or "per 60 minutes " for goalies in hockey
They use "Per 36" because most Starters/Stars play around 36 minutes a game (in the regular season that is) so it gives a more intuitive way to compare raw box score stats
Another beautiful video Joey, but could you run over some of the more ambiguous statistics like Win Shares (offensive and defensive) as well as VORP and maybe explain how Power Rankings aren’t a true indication of a team’s probability of winning?
Just found your channel, I appreciate you and what you do. This is knowledge for people who love the game and its the good lords work... cause some people haven't a crispy clue as to how the game works 😂
I didn't have a crispy clue for a long time and I was always confused when I'd listen podcast. It's a lot more enjoyable when you understand terminology. thanks!
The eye test seems much more efficient. Stats seem like something that can help game planning not as effective in determining the best players. Great information
The eye test is terrible. People say that Kobe is the most clutch player because of the eye test but when you pull up the numbers he was terrible in the clutch especially in the finals
Hot take but I feel like these advanced stats will only get more popular over time, and jokic's continued dominance over most of them will make him a goat contender in the future. Love the vid ❤
yeah, for sure. I think there needs to be a stat that is able to showcase a player who is on a bad team, but has skill. so far no one has. Also thanks!
I think it's time to move on from Player Efficiency Rating. From its very formula, it's heavily biased towards counting stats, which themselves are biased toward offense. Russell Westbrook in his MVP season posted record-breaking PER - eventually mandating an adjustment to the formula - while defensive stalwart Bruce Bowen was consistently rated as below-replacement. The killing blow, to me, is Dennis Rodman being viewed as slightly-below-average, when his reputation as the greatest defender of his generation was well warranted. BPM, RPM, PIPM, and APM all have their own issues, but they at least seem to account for defensive impact a little better. It is an unfortunate reality that publicly-available defensive metrics are all misleading.
I went back and watched some of my older videos where I talked about BPM, RAPTOR, VORP and I think it just comes down to the eye test. ecspecially on defensive end. real recognize real. if you watch ball you know who's good.
@@whatslaps 100% agree. Advance stats are great tools to help us contextualize what we're seeing, and challenge our personal biases, but they shouldn't substitute actually reading the game.
Rodman was a great defender but was basically a non-factor offensively except for the offensive rebound. The 4 or so offensive rebounds a night are obviously good but if he's not making good passes nor scoring after the offensive rebound it's not THAT great right ? Rodman could be the greatest defender ever and it still won't change the fact that he was scoring an inneficient 6 points a night for basically is whole career. Like, Rodman being average (or close to it) in term of PER might actually confirm that the system is working properly. A 9/10 defense but 1/10 offense player is by definition average, right ?
Embiid sure followed through after this video came out. A full season of high usage with extraordinary scoring and rebounding, running all over the court, leading his team to-- (looks to the side) what? Oh.
I'd LOVE to see a stat that shows how well a player's TEAMMATES play when he's on the floor. Jokic would obviously be an amazing case - Bruce Brown, KCP, Aaron Gordon and MANY more all saw HUGE stat bumps when joining Jok...or dips when leaving. I suspect Jordan, LeBron, Bird, Steve Nash all had this Rising Tide ability. Ironically, Jay Huff LEFT the nuggets and improved... GOOD FOR HIM! Also, why can't the Nuggets find a backup Center? Thomas Bryant was awesome in LA and so many more - why only has Plumblee been the only C that could work!??!!? Lots of Vid Ideas there for ya! MORE of these. So many advanced stats that say some REALLY COOL stuff and are mind-blowing, but people don't know what it means.
I kind of did something like that this week on this channel @whatshorts. It was a video of the top 10 duos in the league. If you look at the lineup stats on NBA dot com the best duos in the entire league are Jokic and his teammates. I guess that means the bench is trash, not that we didn't already know. I didn't realize Jay Huff was a nugget last year. He looks good for the grizz.
Almost a week late again, sheesh. Pie is a good one, pretty well balanced and valuable. I’ve always liked PER because of the average being 15, if you’re close to 30 you’re basically doing the work of TWO average players. Usage can be misleading, but does help to understand how much a team wants to work through a guy. Net rating is interesting, Isiah Joe being the league leader is cool for the reason why that is true. True shooting is cool too, again good balance of relative numbers in their proper context. Should Isiah be getting closer to 36 minutes? Pace consideration is good too, I like how each of these puts certain stuff into better perspective based on how they are weighing their particular data. Thank again, always love your shtuff.
I'm doing a video coming up and I realized that Embiid is actually at 34.1 per. He's having an insane season. I think it has a lot to do with those blow outs against the wizards and pistons. Isaiah Joe I think is redundant on his team. I've heard the same with giddey. Might serve them to trade him for some veteranship. Ultimately I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to that kind of stuff. Players should checking their per constantly though haha.
Spent the past three days going over why every stat is crap without context and why every stat is important In it’s own respect. I’ve FINALLY accepted that I am simply a fan and watch basketball because I enjoy it so the good old box score plus these advanced stats are fine for me. Seriously tho, unless you’re reeeaally really interested in every stat and/or it’s your job to know, I think peeps are good with glimpses of the advanced stats to get the general gist of what’s going on. Time and brain power is unfortunately limited for most of us 😂 Thanks to videos like this, we start to get a decent understanding. Thank you! This is a great video.
I'm sort of terrified that basketball is going to become baseball. I checked out for a while and they started doing trigonometry over there. I thought slugging % was advanced enough. I'm afraid they're going to homogenize the sport, it's already getting there bc three pt shooting. Can we not have ONE al Jefferson please? Edey? Sidenote: Dunno what kind of juice you have, but if you ever get the opportunity, please plant the seed in the right people that Wembanyama needs to learn and use the sky hook
Most of the metrics you went over aren't informative or standard in the analytics community. No one uses PIE or PER for anything. Net Rating, Plus-Minus, Usage Rating, are all just signals, not definitive rankings. Stats in context are much more important than stats of any kind. The reason advanced stats beat box score stats/eye test sometimes is because humans are more susceptible to use those things context. I write a blog about the subject and would love to talk to you about a future video where you could go over advanced stats in a more informative way.
I saw the "for DUMMIES" part and felt special🤗
just for you baby 😘
Good video corn dog man
that's me!
The fact that (some) people make it seem like TS% is an “nba nerd” stat that doesn’t give a true indication of a players efficiency is mind boggling. You’re telling me that TS% is a nerdier stat than VORP??
Id say ultimate NERD stats are WAR, VORP, RAPTOR, and Career-Arc Regression Model Estimator with Local Optimization CARMELO
Great video,and it explains a lot. Much appreciated,man! I'm wondering why "Per 36" is a thing,and not "Per 48",like the way baseball uses "per 9 innings" for pitchers,or "per 60 minutes " for goalies in hockey
They use "Per 36" because most Starters/Stars play around 36 minutes a game (in the regular season that is) so it gives a more intuitive way to compare raw box score stats
that's what I figured too.
@@Crispen30 Thanks! 👍🏽
Another beautiful video Joey, but could you run over some of the more ambiguous statistics like Win Shares (offensive and defensive) as well as VORP and maybe explain how Power Rankings aren’t a true indication of a team’s probability of winning?
Thanks! I actually have a video on VORP from about a year and a half ago if you want to check it out. (I think it's decent)
I'm going to start looking at PIE now! Thanks brochacho.
Impact is everything, baby!
Subscribed. ❤ you sold me. Happy holidays, bro. I learned so much in 6 minutes and ive been watching basketball since like 99
Sweet! happy to help!
This is the most underrated basketball channel on youtube. Glad you found it.
@@alyoshaty8823 I just love that it's absolutely no bs
Loved the old style video ❤️
It's nice because I can recycle old videos that weren't as good.
This was good thanks
np! glad you liked it.
Just found your channel, I appreciate you and what you do. This is knowledge for people who love the game and its the good lords work... cause some people haven't a crispy clue as to how the game works 😂
I didn't have a crispy clue for a long time and I was always confused when I'd listen podcast. It's a lot more enjoyable when you understand terminology. thanks!
The eye test seems much more efficient. Stats seem like something that can help game planning not as effective in determining the best players. Great information
yeah, you know it when you see it.
The eye test is terrible. People say that Kobe is the most clutch player because of the eye test but when you pull up the numbers he was terrible in the clutch especially in the finals
your videos are great and the editing is too
thanks man! glad you like them!
Saved you in the bookmarks
you won't regret it.
Thank you for this. I never understood the offensive/rating defensive rating.
Anything for you
Hot take but I feel like these advanced stats will only get more popular over time, and jokic's continued dominance over most of them will make him a goat contender in the future. Love the vid ❤
yeah, for sure. I think there needs to be a stat that is able to showcase a player who is on a bad team, but has skill. so far no one has. Also thanks!
@whatslaps very very true. Its so hard for me to gauge the true quality of guys like cade cunningam or lamelo ball given the quality of their team.
thanks for helping me on my high school elective class. sport statistics
you got it, brother
I think it's time to move on from Player Efficiency Rating. From its very formula, it's heavily biased towards counting stats, which themselves are biased toward offense. Russell Westbrook in his MVP season posted record-breaking PER - eventually mandating an adjustment to the formula - while defensive stalwart Bruce Bowen was consistently rated as below-replacement. The killing blow, to me, is Dennis Rodman being viewed as slightly-below-average, when his reputation as the greatest defender of his generation was well warranted.
BPM, RPM, PIPM, and APM all have their own issues, but they at least seem to account for defensive impact a little better. It is an unfortunate reality that publicly-available defensive metrics are all misleading.
I went back and watched some of my older videos where I talked about BPM, RAPTOR, VORP and I think it just comes down to the eye test. ecspecially on defensive end. real recognize real. if you watch ball you know who's good.
@@whatslaps 100% agree. Advance stats are great tools to help us contextualize what we're seeing, and challenge our personal biases, but they shouldn't substitute actually reading the game.
Rodman was a great defender but was basically a non-factor offensively except for the offensive rebound. The 4 or so offensive rebounds a night are obviously good but if he's not making good passes nor scoring after the offensive rebound it's not THAT great right ?
Rodman could be the greatest defender ever and it still won't change the fact that he was scoring an inneficient 6 points a night for basically is whole career.
Like, Rodman being average (or close to it) in term of PER might actually confirm that the system is working properly. A 9/10 defense but 1/10 offense player is by definition average, right ?
Embiid sure followed through after this video came out. A full season of high usage with extraordinary scoring and rebounding, running all over the court, leading his team to-- (looks to the side) what?
Oh.
exactly. they should put him on ice.
I'd LOVE to see a stat that shows how well a player's TEAMMATES play when he's on the floor. Jokic would obviously be an amazing case - Bruce Brown, KCP, Aaron Gordon and MANY more all saw HUGE stat bumps when joining Jok...or dips when leaving. I suspect Jordan, LeBron, Bird, Steve Nash all had this Rising Tide ability.
Ironically, Jay Huff LEFT the nuggets and improved... GOOD FOR HIM! Also, why can't the Nuggets find a backup Center? Thomas Bryant was awesome in LA and so many more - why only has Plumblee been the only C that could work!??!!? Lots of Vid Ideas there for ya!
MORE of these. So many advanced stats that say some REALLY COOL stuff and are mind-blowing, but people don't know what it means.
I kind of did something like that this week on this channel @whatshorts. It was a video of the top 10 duos in the league. If you look at the lineup stats on NBA dot com the best duos in the entire league are Jokic and his teammates. I guess that means the bench is trash, not that we didn't already know.
I didn't realize Jay Huff was a nugget last year. He looks good for the grizz.
as a thunder fan, i still want more JOE!!!!
He's the new Harden of OKC
Loved this breakdown man! Subbed 👊🏻
Sweet! glad you dug it!
Nice video buddy!!! 💪🙌
thanks friend!
@@whatslaps buddy can you make a video on how rules are changed over the course of time in nba???
Damn Payton catching strays
There are no strays, cowboy
Not about the video but liking the shave
tune in next week for the haircut.
What is GMSC and it's flaws?
I've actually never heard of that one tbh
2022-23 MVP was a robbery. Jokic deserved it.
Great video
I'm still saying EMbiid, even though I'm a Jokic guy. He gave it away at the end of the season.
Almost a week late again, sheesh. Pie is a good one, pretty well balanced and valuable. I’ve always liked PER because of the average being 15, if you’re close to 30 you’re basically doing the work of TWO average players. Usage can be misleading, but does help to understand how much a team wants to work through a guy. Net rating is interesting, Isiah Joe being the league leader is cool for the reason why that is true. True shooting is cool too, again good balance of relative numbers in their proper context. Should Isiah be getting closer to 36 minutes? Pace consideration is good too, I like how each of these puts certain stuff into better perspective based on how they are weighing their particular data. Thank again, always love your shtuff.
I'm doing a video coming up and I realized that Embiid is actually at 34.1 per. He's having an insane season. I think it has a lot to do with those blow outs against the wizards and pistons. Isaiah Joe I think is redundant on his team. I've heard the same with giddey. Might serve them to trade him for some veteranship. Ultimately I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to that kind of stuff. Players should checking their per constantly though haha.
Can you do these for the mlb
I can't I don't know enough about baseball unfortunately. Jomboy makes great content though.
@@whatslaps appreciate it
Thanks!
much appreciated brother. I feel seen.
And can you define avg
If .250 is the avg how good or bad is that actually
middle of the road. bench player
Spent the past three days going over why every stat is crap without context and why every stat is important In it’s own respect. I’ve FINALLY accepted that I am simply a fan and watch basketball because I enjoy it so the good old box score plus these advanced stats are fine for me. Seriously tho, unless you’re reeeaally really interested in every stat and/or it’s your job to know, I think peeps are good with glimpses of the advanced stats to get the general gist of what’s going on. Time and brain power is unfortunately limited for most of us 😂 Thanks to videos like this, we start to get a decent understanding. Thank you! This is a great video.
Yeah, stats are fun but don't show the whole picture. thanks for checking out the video! glad you liked it
you mess with mac and cheese?
Not really. I'm going to keep it real with you, I haven't had a corndog since I was about 11 years old.
I'm sort of terrified that basketball is going to become baseball. I checked out for a while and they started doing trigonometry over there. I thought slugging % was advanced enough.
I'm afraid they're going to homogenize the sport, it's already getting there bc three pt shooting.
Can we not have ONE al Jefferson please? Edey?
Sidenote:
Dunno what kind of juice you have, but if you ever get the opportunity, please plant the seed in the right people that Wembanyama needs to learn and use the sky hook
I think their are advanced stats people, but the obsession isn't there like baseball. Hope it doesn't turn that way.
sidenote: I have no juice.
What websites do you like to use to find most of your advanced stats??
I like basketball reference and nba dot com is good.
I don’t understand the per 100 possessions calcul
extrapolation of stats. hypothetically if they were to play 100 possessions .
Who got highest PIE last year, then?
Im not at home right now, probably jokic though
Lefraud fans will still not understand this tutorial, even though it's made for dummies.
got em! Oh wait... that's me.
I though MJ had the highest PER
I think career overall
He does in career PER, playoffs and season is nikola jokic
Way too much movement in this video.
facts.
Hi i love your videos but could you mind speaking slower
thanks! I have another channel if you look at my featured channels. it's more podcast format and it moves a lot slower.
Most of the metrics you went over aren't informative or standard in the analytics community. No one uses PIE or PER for anything. Net Rating, Plus-Minus, Usage Rating, are all just signals, not definitive rankings. Stats in context are much more important than stats of any kind. The reason advanced stats beat box score stats/eye test sometimes is because humans are more susceptible to use those things context. I write a blog about the subject and would love to talk to you about a future video where you could go over advanced stats in a more informative way.
thanks for the offer man! I'll let you know!