omg, I've been looking at my slope for two years thinking that building terraces and growing on contour doesn't make sense. I'm so glad I found you - Thank you for giving me permission to follow my gut and grow up the slope!
I have an 8 acre agroforesty system in the Luqullio mountains of Puerto Rico. I’ve been watching your content for a couple of years now and damn have you evolved! I’m not really into the ‘fellowship’ thing but I have so much respect for you, your passion, and TBH the ‘gospel of Brazilian Agroforestry’. In the beginning I thought you were too ‘theoretical’, but after your tours of Brazil everything you say resonates… I’m like ‘DAMN! I wish I had known that years ago!’ Please keep doing this amazing work 😊🎉
Great job man. Love the details about why it makes sense to plant perpendicular to contour, and where forest veggies fit into succession. Really well explained. Keep up the good work!
I would argue that permaculture isn't stagnant, rather, people become stagnant or dogmatic through habit formation. Permaculture is an ethical design science which utilizes ecosystemic principals. So really it's happy to adopt anything which works for the specific context that is being developed. I'm certainly not trying to have a fight here, I just felt that point had to be addressed. After all, I come to you for my agroforestry tips❤
Happy to clarify; Not saying permaculture as a whole is stagnant, more the 'permaculture' food forests that I've seen are stagnant and missing that support species / heavy pruning dynamic. Not speaking on the design framework as a whole (which is an invaluable set of tools) - just commenting on the permaculture-based food forests I've seen compared to their syntropic counterparts 👍
@@byrongrowsfair enough hey, I see your point. I guess I reacted to what I felt was a blanket statement. I also made the mistake of too few supports 😁. They are in now though, and more on the way
Great video and love the message at the end Creating food forests isn’t just about growing food but reconnecting with ourselves and nature! RFK Jr said a similar thing a few months ago on Tucker Carlson podcast. Connecting with nature brings us closer to the divine. We are nature and it’s time we reconnect.
Thanks a lot for that share ! I am working on a temerate Clamart system where aromatics (annuals but mostly perennials) are the main crops. Your view on mixing fruits and annuals and reseting support species is an enlightement to me !!! Thank you so much !
Byron you are such a good communicator! I have found it difficult to relate my experience as a land steward to others. To break everything down into parts follows reductionist thought but SAG and KNF are wholistic and i find that part is better shown in workshops hand to hand master to student. Always looking forward to your vids.
I am building my home now, and it is back in my woods. I need some suggestions for design. I am a good woodsman, and I am helped by dad, who has been a timber consultant since 1970. I am here to learn.
Great material. You convinced me it's more convenient to use agroforestry methods than permaculture! One thought I had when you're explaining the annual vegetables garden. Couldn't you use the method of mixing fruit and fast growing chop trees for your annual vegetables so that when they start to produce fruits, you move to another site since it takes years for them to have a good harvest? It looks easier and timesaving to change the plot. In that way you would make the soil more fertile and so forth. Would like to hear your thoughts! Cheers.
Bingo. - that's exactly what I do (shift the veggie area to whatever new system was recently planted) ; this advice was for anyone wanting a long-term vegetable production area to stay in the same plot for years
Amazing video. Just curious, the off contour system does not have lots of run off when heavy rains happen? Maybe mixing both on contour and off would be better in that case
Thanks for the quality information, it's priceless really. I think contour use should correlate with drought severity. In the wetter parts of the globe doing straight lines/syntropic makes more sense. I get 150 inches of rain a year, wtf would I create swales when I have too much water? Just need a few ponds to gravity feed the system during dry spells.
Glad you enjoyed it! Yeah that was where swales were originally intended for, in places with severe dry seasons. Sometimes I'll see pond systems in super dry sites around Brazil, but often the on-contour access paths every ~50m would act as those water catchment areas
Thanks for the excellent and comprehensive review Byron! Any thoughts on the pros/cons of using motorized mulchers / wood chippers to process prunings?
Chippers are great if you're wanting to grow veggies, otherwise the slower breakdown of larger and more diverse material is better for the soil biology / the system as a whole.
Could you point to any video of a long-term successful implementation of the food forest concept? And by that I mean, any food forest case where you actually get what is advertised, meaning increased harvests, working less and without pretending you arent clearing any forest to do it. Oh, and dont forget about not killing any bugs or other living beings. You're in harmony with nature, after all, arent you?
Bingo. And poplar, possibly dogwood. But I’d recommend you plant as many fast growing evergreen-trees as you can find in your area too, that way not everything goes dormant in winter
@@byrongrows yeah that's great advise, I have heard of some synergy between birch and pines. Dogwood does not produce a lot of biomass in my experience (in The Netherlands anyway).
Still not clear on why working off contour, up a slope would be easier. Going up and down a tree line would take far more energy than going side to side, on contour. You finish a line on contour, go down (or up) to the next line and go side to side again. It's the difference between going up and down a slope vs side to side. What am I missing?
@@byrongrows But if your tree line is on contour, you're basically walking along a more or less flat area. You walk across, go up (or down) to the next tree line, walk across to the other end again on more or less flat ground, walk up (or down) again to the next line, and so on. If your tree line goes up and down, you walk up the slope, cross over to your next line, walk down the slop along your next tree line, cross over to the next, climb up the slope again, and so on. In other words, you walk up and down the slope more vs across on more or less flat ground. Our property is on a slope and walking up and down is definitely more tiring than walking left to right. I'm imagining having our tree lines go up and down and having to walk up and down the slope for each line and I just don't see how it's more efficient. I'm not saying you're wrong btw, I'm just saying I don't see how based on our own situation.
Something else to consider is the earthworks involved in creating the contours. Super labor intensive to create and in the end it wastes space and productivity. It was mentioned to have larger access paths on contours but the plantings themselves are not, seems like the best of both scenarios.
@@SaveTheAyeAye do you mean swales? They're not necessary even when building on contour. We have small hand dug ones (inaccessible to heavy machinery and we couldn't afford them anyway). In any case, I was just referring to just the efficiency of going up and down per tree line vs right to left.
@@Norbingel I think he meant wear and tear on your body like your ankles. Constantly working horizontally is unbalanced depending on your slope. Just like the swales your body will be uneven.
Re: vegetables and succession ........ Sounds like Swidden/Fallow systems practiced by forest peoples, and denigrated by post-colonial agronomy, are finally regaining their respect.
This is kind of a controversial topic but I believe for most people they are taking from their food forest but they are not adding anything back. Here is what I mean by that with an example. You eat a banana from your food forest. You have taken carbon and nitrogen from the food forest and that is easily replaced because those elements come from the air (generally speaking). However, you have also taken potassium and calcium and other minerals from your food forest and most people are then flushing those minerals down the toilet (literally), into our rivers, lakes, and oceans. Where are the replacements for these minerals coming from? Yes, rain does provide some but not enough to replace what you have taken. Some people have figured out how to add their feces and urine, safely, back into their food forests. However, how does that work in a commercial agroforestry system, they clearly aren't collecting feces from their customers lol. I believe that is why it is necessary to do amendments in your food forest from time to time. The issue is drastically much more problematic in current massive corporatized agriculture but that is a much larger issue.
While indeed sewers going into the ocean is pretty negligent and wasteful, the minerals in sand, silt, clay and rocks are virtually unlimited I think. Healthy ecosystems can bring to the topsoil everything they need through the nutrient cycling. Long before those run out (if ever) there will be more pressing issues like the next glacial age in like 5000 years.
Remember unless it’s swale setup and placement or check dams then it’s all up to personal preference on how to integrate all the plants together…. Been doing this since a kid that’s more experience and know how than anyone who went to college for 4 to 8 years sorry… but it’s not rocket science in fact it’s so simple people get it wrong time and time again.
For sure, if you prefer inefficient and hard-to-manage systems but it's all personal preference at the end of the day. This isn't based on college classes - It's real world examples of farmers at the cutting edge of syntropic agroforestry. You watched the whole video?
You've gotten significantly better as an educator and editor only since I started watching you ~a year ago. Keep up the good work, you're inspiring!
Happy to hear that - thank you !
omg, I've been looking at my slope for two years thinking that building terraces and growing on contour doesn't make sense. I'm so glad I found you - Thank you for giving me permission to follow my gut and grow up the slope!
Stoked to help you unlock your land’s potential!
Thanks byron,I've just purchased 22 acres near kaitaia,now to turn it into a massive healing retreat/food forest,THE LIGHTHOUSE,coming soon
Exciting ! Can't wait to hear about it once you're there. Fill the form on my site if you want any guidance down the track
I have an 8 acre agroforesty system in the Luqullio mountains of Puerto Rico. I’ve been watching your content for a couple of years now and damn have you evolved!
I’m not really into the ‘fellowship’ thing but I have so much respect for you, your passion, and TBH the ‘gospel of Brazilian Agroforestry’.
In the beginning I thought you were too ‘theoretical’, but after your tours of Brazil everything you say resonates… I’m like ‘DAMN! I wish I had known that years ago!’
Please keep doing this amazing work 😊🎉
Glad I could make that shift for you. Keep those systems flourishing!
Great job man. Love the details about why it makes sense to plant perpendicular to contour, and where forest veggies fit into succession. Really well explained. Keep up the good work!
I would argue that permaculture isn't stagnant, rather, people become stagnant or dogmatic through habit formation. Permaculture is an ethical design science which utilizes ecosystemic principals. So really it's happy to adopt anything which works for the specific context that is being developed. I'm certainly not trying to have a fight here, I just felt that point had to be addressed. After all, I come to you for my agroforestry tips❤
Agreed, its supposed to be open ended and expanded upon.
Happy to clarify; Not saying permaculture as a whole is stagnant, more the 'permaculture' food forests that I've seen are stagnant and missing that support species / heavy pruning dynamic. Not speaking on the design framework as a whole (which is an invaluable set of tools) - just commenting on the permaculture-based food forests I've seen compared to their syntropic counterparts 👍
@@byrongrowsfair enough hey, I see your point. I guess I reacted to what I felt was a blanket statement. I also made the mistake of too few supports 😁. They are in now though, and more on the way
Thank you so much for sharing this very important knowledge, brother. BIG LOVE!
Appreciate that!
Great video and love the message at the end
Creating food forests isn’t just about growing food but reconnecting with ourselves and nature! RFK Jr said a similar thing a few months ago on Tucker Carlson podcast. Connecting with nature brings us closer to the divine. We are nature and it’s time we reconnect.
Couldn't agree more - the food forest is a doorway to a deeper understanding of ourselves & the planet. Thanks for sharing the pod!
Mate, this is absolute GOLD. Thank you SO much.
Thanks !
Thanks a lot for that share !
I am working on a temerate Clamart system where aromatics (annuals but mostly perennials) are the main crops. Your view on mixing fruits and annuals and reseting support species is an enlightement to me !!! Thank you so much !
Glad you enjoyed it ! Sounds like an awesome system
Byron you are such a good communicator! I have found it difficult to relate my experience as a land steward to others. To break everything down into parts follows reductionist thought but SAG and KNF are wholistic and i find that part is better shown in workshops hand to hand master to student. Always looking forward to your vids.
I agree, we learn best with our hands but always can learn to communicate things better / with more clarity !
Your knowledge is outstanding you deserve more subscribers.
I’m leaving a lot from you
Many thanks
I appreciate that!
Love, love, love thissss!!!! What an abundance of knowledge shared. Thank you Byron, so enjoyed watching and learning from you!!!
Stoked!
great class!!! glad you learned so much while you were in Brazil.
It's been a life-changing journey for sure, stoked to share the lessons!
Thank you thank you thank you! I knew this was going to be gold! 😁👏🥳
Stoked you enjoyed it!
Thank man!!!
On contour is just for a desert o drylands!
Bingo, and even then I'd just be using the access tracks for the 'contour catchment' and still going directly up the slope
This is fantastic! Thank you!
Stoked you enjoyed it!
Very ILLUMINATING!! THANK 'S ..I WILL UPPLY IN MY NEW SYSTEM..VERY GOOD CONCEPT 👍
Love to hear it
I am building my home now, and it is back in my woods. I need some suggestions for design. I am a good woodsman, and I am helped by dad, who has been a timber consultant since 1970. I am here to learn.
You’re in the right place! Exciting journey ahead
Which bioregion?
Bill Mollison would be proud brother ❤
🫡🫡
stunning thank you
Stoked you enjoyed it
Great material. You convinced me it's more convenient to use agroforestry methods than permaculture!
One thought I had when you're explaining the annual vegetables garden.
Couldn't you use the method of mixing fruit and fast growing chop trees for your annual vegetables so that when they start to produce fruits, you move to another site since it takes years for them to have a good harvest?
It looks easier and timesaving to change the plot. In that way you would make the soil more fertile and so forth.
Would like to hear your thoughts!
Cheers.
Bingo. - that's exactly what I do (shift the veggie area to whatever new system was recently planted) ; this advice was for anyone wanting a long-term vegetable production area to stay in the same plot for years
Amazing video. Just curious, the off contour system does not have lots of run off when heavy rains happen? Maybe mixing both on contour and off would be better in that case
Not from what I’ve seen, even in heavy-rainfall areas. Organic matter well-organised stops this
contrags man nice work
Appreciate the feedback
Thanks for the quality information, it's priceless really. I think contour use should correlate with drought severity. In the wetter parts of the globe doing straight lines/syntropic makes more sense. I get 150 inches of rain a year, wtf would I create swales when I have too much water? Just need a few ponds to gravity feed the system during dry spells.
Glad you enjoyed it! Yeah that was where swales were originally intended for, in places with severe dry seasons. Sometimes I'll see pond systems in super dry sites around Brazil, but often the on-contour access paths every ~50m would act as those water catchment areas
Fantastic
Thanks for watching
Thanks for the excellent and comprehensive review Byron! Any thoughts on the pros/cons of using motorized mulchers / wood chippers to process prunings?
Chippers are great if you're wanting to grow veggies, otherwise the slower breakdown of larger and more diverse material is better for the soil biology / the system as a whole.
@byrongrows clear. Thanks!
Could you point to any video of a long-term successful implementation of the food forest concept?
And by that I mean, any food forest case where you actually get what is advertised,
meaning increased harvests, working less and without pretending you arent clearing any forest to do it.
Oh, and dont forget about not killing any bugs or other living beings. You're in harmony with nature, after all, arent you?
What happens with dry lands? The tropics is easy.
what are good alternatives for banana's for cold climates? willow, alder?
Bingo. And poplar, possibly dogwood. But I’d recommend you plant as many fast growing evergreen-trees as you can find in your area too, that way not everything goes dormant in winter
@@byrongrows yeah that's great advise, I have heard of some synergy between birch and pines. Dogwood does not produce a lot of biomass in my experience (in The Netherlands anyway).
Thank you! Can this be done in bone dry Australia or Africa, without doing the contouring?
There were examples of this practice being used in bone-dry parts of Brazil, so I'd imagine yes
Still not clear on why working off contour, up a slope would be easier. Going up and down a tree line would take far more energy than going side to side, on contour. You finish a line on contour, go down (or up) to the next line and go side to side again. It's the difference between going up and down a slope vs side to side. What am I missing?
Ergonomics of walking directly up vs across on an angle. Thousands of hours over the lifespan of your system. It makes a difference
@@byrongrows But if your tree line is on contour, you're basically walking along a more or less flat area. You walk across, go up (or down) to the next tree line, walk across to the other end again on more or less flat ground, walk up (or down) again to the next line, and so on.
If your tree line goes up and down, you walk up the slope, cross over to your next line, walk down the slop along your next tree line, cross over to the next, climb up the slope again, and so on.
In other words, you walk up and down the slope more vs across on more or less flat ground. Our property is on a slope and walking up and down is definitely more tiring than walking left to right. I'm imagining having our tree lines go up and down and having to walk up and down the slope for each line and I just don't see how it's more efficient.
I'm not saying you're wrong btw, I'm just saying I don't see how based on our own situation.
Something else to consider is the earthworks involved in creating the contours. Super labor intensive to create and in the end it wastes space and productivity. It was mentioned to have larger access paths on contours but the plantings themselves are not, seems like the best of both scenarios.
@@SaveTheAyeAye do you mean swales? They're not necessary even when building on contour. We have small hand dug ones (inaccessible to heavy machinery and we couldn't afford them anyway).
In any case, I was just referring to just the efficiency of going up and down per tree line vs right to left.
@@Norbingel I think he meant wear and tear on your body like your ankles. Constantly working horizontally is unbalanced depending on your slope. Just like the swales your body will be uneven.
Re: vegetables and succession ........ Sounds like Swidden/Fallow systems practiced by forest peoples, and denigrated by post-colonial agronomy, are finally regaining their respect.
This was how our ancestors integrated their lives into the forest. Clearing / Regrowth / Clearing / Regrowth
This is kind of a controversial topic but I believe for most people they are taking from their food forest but they are not adding anything back. Here is what I mean by that with an example. You eat a banana from your food forest. You have taken carbon and nitrogen from the food forest and that is easily replaced because those elements come from the air (generally speaking). However, you have also taken potassium and calcium and other minerals from your food forest and most people are then flushing those minerals down the toilet (literally), into our rivers, lakes, and oceans. Where are the replacements for these minerals coming from? Yes, rain does provide some but not enough to replace what you have taken.
Some people have figured out how to add their feces and urine, safely, back into their food forests. However, how does that work in a commercial agroforestry system, they clearly aren't collecting feces from their customers lol. I believe that is why it is necessary to do amendments in your food forest from time to time.
The issue is drastically much more problematic in current massive corporatized agriculture but that is a much larger issue.
These nutrients and minerals are replaced by the nutrient-cycling from pruning support species that you've planted in the system
While indeed sewers going into the ocean is pretty negligent and wasteful, the minerals in sand, silt, clay and rocks are virtually unlimited I think. Healthy ecosystems can bring to the topsoil everything they need through the nutrient cycling. Long before those run out (if ever) there will be more pressing issues like the next glacial age in like 5000 years.
Remember unless it’s swale setup and placement or check dams then it’s all up to personal preference on how to integrate all the plants together…. Been doing this since a kid that’s more experience and know how than anyone who went to college for 4 to 8 years sorry… but it’s not rocket science in fact it’s so simple people get it wrong time and time again.
For sure, if you prefer inefficient and hard-to-manage systems but it's all personal preference at the end of the day. This isn't based on college classes - It's real world examples of farmers at the cutting edge of syntropic agroforestry. You watched the whole video?