Hi everyone. To speed up my production (so you don't have to wait forever between videos), I've started working with a video editor. This is the first project we've done together, and I'm looking for feedback if there's anything you particularly liked/disliked about this video - we know it's probably not perfect. Your suggestions will be useful in steering us in the best direction possible. 🛒 Affiliate Product Links San Martin SN026-G ➡ tidd.ly/3zlYHDj San Martin SN044-G ➡ tidd.ly/3oni5tz ALSO: Thanks to viewers, I learned there are spring bar tools beneath the foam inserts in the boxes. The insert is incredibly difficult to remove (at least the two inside my boxes were). No extra straps are present, but at least the tools are. This needs to be MUCH more obvious for new customers, as I didn't realise even after having them here for months - the insert is way too tight. 😅
Hi Ben, The issue with the miyota movement is a well known one. It seems to have something to do with making it more shockresistant. It doesn't effect accuracy and can often be solved with the slightly more expensive 8300 series movement.
Just so you know Ben, the tools aren't absent, they're at the bottom of the case along with the warranty card. You'll have to remove the watch holding foam to find them at the very bottom of the cylinder. Although I realize it's a stupid and un-obvious place to put them, especially without any labelling to let you know they're there. But just for the sake of misinforming potential customers, they are indeed there. Just at the bottom of the packaging.
Yeah this isn't that obvious when you first get one of their watches in the newer packaging. Also it can be a little difficult to remove the foam to get to it as well. They do have pictures of this on the listings though, showing where the accessories are.
They're doing a good job honestly. It feels like they actually want to adress the issues raised by reviewers and consumers and not just be another "hommage" chinese brand.
The Miyota stutter is technically a "feature". The idea behind it is that if the second hand gets obstructed it can disconnect from the movement so time keeping isn't affected. The issue is that how much force is required for this mechanism to activate varies wildly and for some units the weight of the second hand itself at the right angle is enough to engage it, resulting in the stutter.
Been trying for about 15 mins, but the foam simply won't come out. If there are tools in there they're inaccessible 😂 wonder who's idea it was to hide them under there haha
Damn, I feel you about the branding. I am actually a designer and I reached out to Mr Liao at San Martin in an attempt to try and work with them on their logo/branding/packaging etc. Sadly i think they are reluctant to work with people outside the company but I really wish they could improve their branding, there's so much potential there.
@@nicoraba cos people think the Chinese just make cheap tat. They forget that most of everything from high end electronics to the battery in their Tesla was made in China. I've got a small collection of watches, including a few Chinese homages and Seiko originals, the Chinese homages are much better quality/value than the Seiko's.
@@oktc68 Quality always finds its way. It's the way of the dragon! :) I mean, if there's a country which has so much potential to choose a cool brand name, that's China.
Hey Ben! I suggest you check underneath the foam: the tools you mentioned above (that was lacking) can be found there - all complete and accounted for.
I'm an owner of two San Martins. SN020-2G (70's Explorer 39mm Homage) and SN021-4G (BB36 Homage) and can report they are absolutely quality watches. Yes absolutely worth for the price even after import tax.
I have the black 37mm SanMartin Rolex explorer homage, and I was really hesitant to pull the trigger on an almost $300 Chinese homage, BUT I’m so glad I did. I own Orient, Traska, multiple Seiko, multiple Casio, but I keep going back to that 37mm SanMartin. Why? The clasp is literally the best I have used in an under 1000$ watch (maybe even over that), the bracelet finishing is amazing (and has screw links), the case finishing is superb, the crown is easy to manipulate and screw in, the winding feels great (PT5000), the indices are well applied, Lume is better than I would ever dare to hope and rivals my seikos (may be better), it keeps amazing time, and the way the light plays with the AMAZING top hat sapphire crystal just seals the deal and makes the whole dial pop. With it being a “cheap Chinese homage” too, I’m not afraid to just live life in it, so I use it whenever I can as a true tool watch, and this devil-may care attitude that I don’t even have with my G-Shocks has made the entire experience super enjoyable. I have no desire to fill in that “Rolex explorer tool watch” position in my collection anymore because this fills it. 8/10 maybe 9/10 watch, ONLY held back by the fact that this is a Chinese brand. If this was made by Swatch co. With a ETA derivative or SW200, this would easily be $1000 or greater in price. Do not regret this purchase at all!
Well said! I totally agree. I also have a varying collection, but my SN021 LE 39mm and the SN004 LE BB58 in blue keep getting the most wrist time for the reasons you mentioned
San Martin is offering a choice of PT5000 and SW200 in many of their offerings now. Absout an extra $220 for the latter. I’m not sure which to get for my first SM. I’ve never had either movement before.
@@conzmoleman Just get the PT5000; I have watches with both movements and I've had no problems with the PT5000. That being said, it's based off of the SW200, which is based off of the ETA2824 which is notorious for winding issues. I have a Certina with the ETA and something inside is broken now. So just shake the watch when you can and don't wind it and you'll be ok. PT500 = SW200 = ETA2824
Purely on specs alone San Martin offer incredible value for money. But you’ve got the ‘X’ factors like guarantee, customer service and branding and company history which sways so many buyers (just like me!) Great video as always Ben!
Another note to take in is the ever growing pricing of a San Martin. They've become less of a bargain over the years and are really pushing the market at the moment
Yup exactly. They've become _more expensive_ and _less good._ Aliexpress watches can be fun if the price is low enough to offset the inherent negatives (poor qc, no customer service, effectively no returns, questionable intellectual property ethics, unknown worker conditions, long shipping times, risk of damage or loss during transport to name a few). It all feels like a lottery: buy a €300 ticket and if you're lucky you win a half way decent watch. Look at Ben, even when they knowingly send him a watch to review, he gets one with a shoddy movement. Not worth the gamble imo.
Exactly, I was recently in the market for a MM300 homage, was able to look at a couple, San Martin and Proxima, nothing between them in terms of quality of finish, both very good. Case construction and movement separated them, the San Martin opting for a screw case back whereas Proxima (and many others) stick with the monocoque case, as for the movement for the same price as the San Martin with PT5000 the Proxima comes with a Sellita SW200. San Martin aren't the only Chinese company that have started making original designs either.
What exactly are you looking for, the sub,sumo,mm200/300, turtle, and many others homages they offer can be had for about 160-220ish during their sales. They're still pretty affordable, unless you are getting their sw200/gmt you're not hitting 300 all that often.
For what it’s worth, I have five San Martin watches and I have been happy with all of them. No movement or qc issues. They are among the highest of the Ali Express brands but in my experience this higher price has been justified by the quality of the product I have received.
If you pull out the foam from the new packaging, you'll find a compartment containing a spring bar tool, sizing screw driver, and a nicely finished metal keychain.
People often complain about the price of SM watches, however their level of finishing is exceptional for the price. I guess this can only be truly appreciated through a loupe or macro lens. I would say you get more watch for your money than either Seiko or even Orient for an equivalent price.
The reason the Miyota 8000 series movements jitter around Is because they have an indirect seconds hand it’s actually supposed to do that at some points and it was built that way. it’s not really an issue so much as it’s how the movement was built. It’s why I prefer the 9000 series movements.
the orange bezel reminds me of a yema. they look better than the earlier ripoffs, but the problem i have with them is from the side, the cases look very unrefuned, think of what cybertruck is to car design. they are blocky, harsh angles. sort of like they couldn't be bothered to streamline the side of the case to the lug.
I also follow other watch reviews for 3 years and feel that Ben gives more insight in detail. Concerning a Chinese watch, I have no problem with an original design or name and innovation. The price of San Martin approaches other large brands with lasting values and then the choice is quickly made.
The Miyota 8015 is renowned for that stuttering second hand and has been for many many years, I'm surprised you've never encountered it before. It's due to the indirect driven second hand and is the reason I avoid that awful movement at all costs and I'm mega surprised San Martin have even considered using it. It doesn't affect the Seiko NH35A because that uses a direct driven second hand and why it's such a highly regarded movement even though it's still firmly in the budget category.
The sn004g retro diver in the thumbnail is one of the best they've ever done, I love mine. They have since upgraded it to a more refined and expensive version 3 but I think they've lost some of the vintage aesthetic in the process.
Enjoyed the video Ben! I just want to point out one aspect, which I think comes across a bit confusing. When people say a non-chronometer movement runs at, say, 4 sec/day, therefore ‘matching chronometer precision’, that’s not quite true. COSC tests involve multiple positions and temperature changes across 15 days. So if a non-cosc watch is measured at 0 sec/day on one particular occasion, that still doesn’t mean it could pass a cosc test or that it matches cosc precision.
Absolutely. I tried to combat that with "hypothetically", as I'd be surprised if anyone expected a SM to be COSC certified. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough, I'll note it for future videos
The two "originals" (homages) at 0:58 are both great deals though. the originals go at about $600+ and are not worth anywhere close to that price point. San Martin does a great job at making "scratch the itch" watches
I've reviewed quite a lot of AliExpress watches, from various brands now and I'd definitely say that San Martin is top of the pile so far, in terms of fit, finish and QC. I'd argue that they are now on the same level as microbrands and even some of the bigger brands too. When it comes to the PT5000 vs SW200 argument. I've got quite a few watches with the PT5000 in now and I've not had any issues with any of them. Some of which I've had for about 2 years now as well. So, for me personally I wouldn't bother paying the extra for the SW200, as from my experience the performance is equal. Granted I don't have as many watches with the SW200, but based on the ones I do have, I've not noticed any difference at all.
I’ve read that the stuttering seconds hand in the Miyota 8 series movements is part of the design. You can search more about this online, but Miyota doesn’t consider this an issue as it does not affect timekeeping.
I like the clamshell cases, you can find practical uses for them. I have several, one of them stores fuses, bulbs etc for my car and stays in the boot of my car. Another houses a whole bunch of watch straps I haven't worn in decades.
The Miyota 8215 is an interesting movement, as it has gone through some changes. If you remember, it originally was non hacking. My experience with Miyota is hit or miss. I found a great deal on a Miyota equipped Laco, which gave me pause, until I read it used the dressed up and regulated version: 821A, which has proved to be almost as accurate as my swiss movements. On the other hand, I bought an Aquacy 1769, and while I was impressed with the thin profile 9015, which is almost as thin as an ETA 2892, it also started randomly stopping 6 months after I bought it, and Aquacy was not overly helpful.
Ben, I love your honesty in your reviews. I would probably have bought the diver if not for the Miyota movement. If not the NH35, then perhaps an Epsom (Orient) movement. Finally, almost all five watches pay some homage to the Submariner.
Hello fellow South African! I dont mind the Miyota but I can see why you would want the NH35. Its a pity however that by the time we get them here they are way more expensive.
@@Rich77UK , Actually, Epsom-Seiko own both Seiko Watches and Orient Watches, but they are independent from each other. And Orient currently give much better bang for your buck. Not to mention Orient Star.
@@johanvandersandt8904 Goeie naand Johan, die Miyota 8000 reeks is daren baie primitief as jy dit me die NH35 of Epsom Orient vergelyk, veral as jy die prys van lg in ag neem.
My biggest issue ive always had with san martin was their branding. The different logo styles on the faces really did serve to diminish the brand and make it appear as a low tier chinese generic. Glad they stuck with the hexaganal logo design. Always liked that on their dials. Its a dissapointment that they used a downgraded miyota movement on the dive watch. For the money you pay you should get something without a stuttering second hand. I think the SN026 is a nice unique looking watch. Id seriously consider it. Youre right- it looks like nothing else in my collection too.
I applaud San Martin's build quality and affordability but their logo puts me off. In my opinion it looks as if it was designed by a 9 year old. The overall hexagon shape is a good choice and maybe it is intentionally quirky, but the wonky lettering makes me feel queezy. I think it looks naff.
Most snobs only criticism is the branding/lack of heritage, or frown upon their whole Chinese made. Whole still praising microbrands that also make their watches out of Chinese factories or parts. San Martin watches are the best value you can get, this while idea of being able to resell a 200 dollars watch is ridiculous, if I'm buying a used entry-level watch I wouldn't pay more than half the original value to begin with, all watches at that price point shouldn't have much value retention, because it's not much more to get it new.
@@gilbertoflores7397 I have 2 watches. Seiko 5 (2010) and that San Martin i have bought early 2022. Both of those are cheap watches. But they look good and tell time nicely. Why would anybody need a history of the brand to be happy with its product ? What would a Rolex of 10 000 USD do better? Nothing. Now, if we were talking about the cars, that Ferrari will certainly be much better everywhere than the Renault Clio. In watches industry you dont get anything better by spending thousands of dollars on a watch.
I'm not a SM fanboy but it seems you could possibly be being a bit overly critical. 1. Tools under foam in base of plastic watch box. 2. San Martin usually will exchange the clasp for the 4 microadjust if you just ask at time of purchase, usually supplied and fitted at no extra charge. 3. They do advertise the use of the Miyota and allegedly the stuttering does not affect timekeeping and is part of the movement design, which I think other watch reviewers like ILW/ Gary have even reported the stutter protects the movement from inertial forces during activity. Please correct if I have misrepresented that/ him. It’s just the way the movement was designed: a third wheel in the gear train indirectly drives a pinion which advances the seconds hand.
Top quality content as always Ben! That Miyota movement is definitely faulty. In an 82xx series movement the second hand is indirectly driven which means that the seconds hand will momentarily stop if the movement is subjected to shock. It doesn't affect the accuracy. Some people are bothered by that, others not. The San Martin here is displaying stutter when it's sitting still which is definitely a defect, either in the movement components (unlikely as Miyota QC is excellent like most Japanese manufacturers) or how they've been adjusted/lubricated/damaged when the watch was cased up (more likely).
The cuts/edits are superb, Ben! Also, can you add a few shots of the watches in sunlight or natural light, just to get a perspective on how the watch looks outside in real life? I'm not sure but there seems to be a light tint in the studio setup keeping the watches from having a clear picture.
I have three SN044, all on rubber straps (yellow, navy and green). They take their design cue mainly from the Mido Ocean Star Tribute, at least that's what it looks like to me. I like the no-nonsense design with all those different colours, the tool-watch like sturdiness, the very well designed hands, the very bright and long lasting lume. In the sale they are quite reasonably priced. The movement? It runs well, that's all that matters to me, really. Who needs chronometer precision in a watch these days?
The ‘26G reminds me of two Tag Heuer models-the Monaco, with its tonneau shaped case, but the dial and hour marker track reminiscent of the classic 2000 series automatics of the late 90s / early aughts.
Stuttering second hands are a perennial problem with Miyota 8 series movements. Amazingly, the Chinese Sea Gull equivalent or even the cheapo DG equivalent don't suffer from this in my experience.
@@BensWatchClub yes when I first saw this packaging it took watching another reviewer to see the tools were there. They are not good tools however so best kept where they are. I do like SM personally reviewed a few and soon intend on taking one apart with the PT5000 inside so I can get a closer look at that movement as it always seems to run superbly out of the box on the timegrapher.
I've got the San Martin LJM 62mas homage, it's very nicely finished, and was worth the money several years back. I would say the current San Martin pricing is too high though, I'm not prepared to gamble with £300-400, and let's be honest, the brand clout is never going to be there to support these prices.
There is no loud rotor noise in the 8215 watch. The case back is so solid, no one can hear it. I have the Tiffany blue dial one, and the brushed polishing is dark grey, not silver. Even the bezel. Great looking watch 😁
It's seriously not that bad on the closeups, I've tried many other of these fun Chinese watches but I'm often deceived by very little but annoying things like particles on the dials or asymmetrical little details etc... Seems ok, I might order one or two to check it out for myself, with hopes it doesn't fly out straight in the recycling bin along with all the starking & other Cinomakers.
I had a Junkers with the 8215 movement. that stutter is a normal for that movement - it's not QC...and it's very annoying. That being said, when you can get a Mako 2 for 100-120 $ these days, this offer from San Martin seems ridiculous.
a great explanation by the guys at the Caliber Corner on the stuttering second hand of the old automatic Miyota movements : "THE SECOND HAND ON MY MIYOTA POWERED WATCH ISN’T SMOOTH… WHY? Is your automatic timepiece ticking like a quartz watch? Whether you call it stalling, stuttering, shuttering, hesitating, cascading or skipping, rest assured that the sweeping seconds hand on your Miyota movement (and even some older Swiss made movements) isn’t broken, it is normal. While it may be alarming at first, and annoying to many collectors, the central sweeping seconds hand is prone to hesitation or stalling because of what is called an Indirect Drive system. The Miyota cal 8215 is an indirect sweep seconds design, very common in Swiss watches of even very high grades in the past. It allows for an elegantly simple design of the the watch, in this case the top plate encompasses both the time and winding trains. This view of the train, shows the sweep second pinion which passes through the center wheel, and is driven by the 3rd wheel.”
They make better quality watches imo than Seiko and Orient for the price but it's unfortunate that they aren't better than micros like Phobios imo. I do like that orange dial though. I picked up the Seiko Samurai SRPC07 so I could have the orange dial version there too
The seemingly stuttering seconds hand is due to the used non-matching of the wheels teeth, it's a constructive feature, not a malfunction. The seconds wheel turns properly, but the "translation" to the seconds hand results in jitter. It's a feature of the movement. After a full circle, the "mistakes even out and the seconds hand is not falling behind. Only the path to get there is irritating.
Seiko, Miyota from 90xx series and ETA 2824 clones are all directly driven second hand movements, that's why they don't stutter. The Miyota 80xx series as like as the Vostok have a small gear that gets the motion from the main gear train and transfer it to the second hand, and this, if not made super well, creates that stutter effect.
I have a few San Martins. I quite enjoy them. I will likely buy another one or two someday....especially if I maybe have a drink or two and do a little spirited watch purchasing. I've tried to swear that off but it happens sometimes. The guilt isn't as bad when an impulse buy only costs a couple hundred dollars and I actually end up wearing it. Even as a planned purchase, I think a San Martin is a pretty solid option in the price range. I agree about the new packaging....it's over the top...and the Miyota movements. I would rather have NH35, YN55, or PT5000.
Very good and honest review mate, had a fair few san martin and my experience with them has always been good. Had the SN044 on the rubber strap and was impressed with the quality for the price point. The branding is something I do find fault with because they are a bit all over with it. Once they sort it out, should be a better experience.
Your lighting and/or color grading leaves a lot to be desired. I recommend more light sources, and also boost the contrast and saturation levels. Thanks for the review.
miyota 8xxx movements have indirectly driven second hand. the stutterring is a consequence of that design. the 9xxx series however has directly driven second hand and shouldn't have this issue. i've had a few 9015/9039/90s5 watches before and none of them stutter.
To me the branding should be more minimalistic, and the design and proportions more coherent : for example a 39mm diameter with a 49mm lug to lug ( straight lugs ) is very silly. One says moderate size the other says " I'm gonna overhang on your modest wrist ". They are very prone to that kind of stuff. They could use a proper designer for more consistency in their design choices, and someone to work on the logo and a smaller package. That may justify the prices which by now, are actually quite high, especially for a watch you'd send on the other side of the world if something is wrong. Also, the Alie sales shenanigans that end up being something like an 8% discount or so. Nah. They got the potential to become a very solid choice and to be something we'd comfortably recommend to new enthusiasts, as long as they hold on humbleness.
If you know how to use all the coupons and vouchers, you can get a discount in the 20-30% range. Their sub/sumo homages can be hand for the 150-160 usd range, so pretty affordable from the 220ish they're normally available at.
The best San Martin reviews I've seen in a while. Not hating on the brand itself but many reviewers of these watches seem to drool over the latest arrived freebie, point you to the affiliate link and move on to the next. Not a great fan of copies which has been their main output so far but these are enough of their own designs to pass muster.
I mean he does the same with Casio watches. And this review he's looking for anything to be critical of San Martin, his issues are the movements, which are designed to have that feature, the case it comes in, and other minor things that atwnt very significant, like dial colors (which he picked). I'm not being negative towards him, just that a lot of the things he doesn't like are things he sort of intentionally things he ended up picking himself. I've have no problem with their homage watches, I've picked up a few, and they're incredible, if he tried to do look at the ones they're more known for, he'd understand why people like them, their MOP dials are just really nice, they use the same clasp you'll find on Oris watches, and they can finish bracelets to a significantly better quality than you'll find in any big watch brand for 3-4 times the price.
The miyota stutter is pretty common, although on a barbos diver I had it was perfect, I avoid the 8 series miyota where possible..nh35 is a better choice,👍
The Miyota 8215 has a spring-loaded independent seconds tribe. Most likely, the spring pressure is not enough due to the long and heavy second hand. Look at Citizen watches with the 8215 movement, they have small, short second hands. The Chinese do not take into account the peculiarities of mechanisms when they use them in their watches.
I own there REX1 homage, PT5000, the original of course being the world's most perfect watch in my eyes and one I can't afford....SM quality is fantastic and I'd say was definitely worth the money....assuming the movement holds up long term then it's a keeper for sure....the hex logo is the better one so glad all that's settled....out of the two you showed the tonneau case would be my pick....🏴⌚🏴⌚
It's strange how the miyota movement is bigged up by many sellers as tho it's a great movement but seems it's not that good. With many micro brands now on the market which some of are pretty good as I own many but I actually don't know what's movement is used in them. But I've not noticed this sort of issue with any.
Chinese movements are hit or miss. As a disclaimer, I have not tried the PT5000, and suspect it is probably a solid offering, as it seems to be the flagship of the Chinese 2824 clones. That said, top of the line notwithstanding, I have had 5 Chinese movements, and every one of them has had issues: (2) Dixmont Guangzhou DG 2813: The first one I bought would randomly stop, and it was cheaper to get a new one than to service it. The second one worked, however, was wildly inaccurate and inconsistent on the timegrapher. It really was a mess. Stay away from this movement. "Asian" ETA 2824 clone (not a PT5000, and probably not a seagull): This movement is fairly accurate, but the rotor does not spin particularly freely, to the point where a winder will not wind it. Further, there is a troubling amount of resistance while hand winding. Seagull ST2100 (ETA 2836-2 clone): This movement really did seem nice, until it broke. When adjusting the time (admittedly expediently), it started to skip, and then eventually was impossible to set the time altogether. I took it apart and discovered the time set wheel had actually sheared off a portion of the teeth, which caused the initial skipping, and led to not being able to engage at all. A replacement wheel was over $30 shipped, which I felt was too much. In the end, the DG equipped watch ended up being a practice watch for working on watches, the 2824 is a pretty watch I now rarely wear, and the 2836 was a custom build watch that I ended up just buying an actual ETA 2836-2 Elabore for... which keeps time as well as my Omega 1120 equipped Seamaster.
I received a PT5000 powered San Martin 6 weeks ago. It came in the new container complete with spring bar tool, screwdriver and mini keychain. On the time grapher it's between -6 and +6 seconds, depending on position so it's easy to keep it running near or within COSC deviation by choosing the overnight position to counteract the deviation during the day. I'm happy with the purchase so far.
Cool watches. I would like to buy SN026-G but it cannot be imported to my country exceeding 150€ import limit. One thing to add here, I think these Chinese brands should use original Chinese brand names.
I've had a brand new NH35 thats fooked from factory. 0.8ms beat error, the BEST adjusted was +426s per day and an amplitude in the mid 140s. Tried everything but it's not having it. Need a replacement.
Why anyone would buy these over the similarly priced Bulova is beyond me. I think San Martin have priced themselves out of the market when competing with the lower end of the Seiko and Citizen ranges.
I won't be buying anymore San Martin. I bought the BB58 homage two months ago, and the paint wasn't done properly on the bezel insert numerals. It was thin in spots and started coming off in others. Their CS basically said that wasn't possible and declined to replace the insert, but offered to sell me a replacement instead. Long story short, they don't stand behind their product, even when defective from the factory. For $300, I expected a LOT more.
The 8215 movement should have been consigned to the parts bin by now and it really should not be being used by any self-respecting watch brand. However, the 9 series movements, such as the one in my Lorier Neptune are far better, and in my opinion should be the go to Miyota moving forward.
I have had 5 watches with the pt5000 that broke the winding gear after only weeks of use so I would definitely never recommend this movement to anyone. And the warranty on these watches does not exist in reality. I have tried to send several watches back to China for repair and not even one watch has gotten through the Chinese customs so don’t bother if you have a broken watch. All in all it is always a lottery if the watch one buys from China works well let alone the reliability. Simple put it is not a good idea to buy a watch from China if it all comes down to luck…
Or, you could do what so many of us have done, get into modding, and with minimal practice replace the components (or even more easily, the whole movement) in your own watches for a pittance (compared to the cost of a watchmaker doing it for you)
@@lassejupin6684 well you are in luck sir, because I'm here to tell you that you could pop in anything from an ETA 2824, to a Sellita SW200 series, to a sea-gull ST2130, an SL3000 or any number of cheaper "A2824" clone movements you can pick up on eBay. It's a nice standard set of specs, made to fit any ETA 2824 clone for any price.
Either Ben is extremely unlucky with his SMs or he's simply more thorough in his reviews. Going by 95% of SM reviews on YT, these things are supposedly the chit when it comes to finishing, QC and build quality. I just ordered their BB GMT (aluminium Pepsi) homage and it's supposed to arrive next Wednesday. First SM I've ever bought, so I guess I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that they're sending me a good one. I wouldn't want to have to send it back to China - and that's probably one of the biggest drawbacks with these brands and one of the reasons why I have been reluctant to buy one of their pieces in the past.
Hi everyone.
To speed up my production (so you don't have to wait forever between videos), I've started working with a video editor. This is the first project we've done together, and I'm looking for feedback if there's anything you particularly liked/disliked about this video - we know it's probably not perfect.
Your suggestions will be useful in steering us in the best direction possible.
🛒 Affiliate Product Links
San Martin SN026-G ➡ tidd.ly/3zlYHDj
San Martin SN044-G ➡ tidd.ly/3oni5tz
ALSO: Thanks to viewers, I learned there are spring bar tools beneath the foam inserts in the boxes. The insert is incredibly difficult to remove (at least the two inside my boxes were). No extra straps are present, but at least the tools are. This needs to be MUCH more obvious for new customers, as I didn't realise even after having them here for months - the insert is way too tight. 😅
It’s definitely possible to tell but they’ve matched your style extremely well. The sound effects might be a tad loud in the mix, but it’s slight.
If you hadn't mentioned I don't think I would have noticed, however watch shots were longer in your videos and I liked it
Hi Ben, The issue with the miyota movement is a well known one. It seems to have something to do with making it more shockresistant. It doesn't effect accuracy and can often be solved with the slightly more expensive 8300 series movement.
The colors seem quite dull particularly in the watch shots. The earlier videos were much better in that regard. See 2:45 for example.
@@samkempe5596 definitely not worth the trade off, think I've had 3-4 now with that stuttering problem, it's hideous haha
Just so you know Ben, the tools aren't absent, they're at the bottom of the case along with the warranty card. You'll have to remove the watch holding foam to find them at the very bottom of the cylinder.
Although I realize it's a stupid and un-obvious place to put them, especially without any labelling to let you know they're there. But just for the sake of misinforming potential customers, they are indeed there. Just at the bottom of the packaging.
Cheers dits
Yeah this isn't that obvious when you first get one of their watches in the newer packaging. Also it can be a little difficult to remove the foam to get to it as well. They do have pictures of this on the listings though, showing where the accessories are.
Good catch
@@miket9724 crow
They're doing a good job honestly. It feels like they actually want to adress the issues raised by reviewers and consumers and not just be another "hommage" chinese brand.
The Miyota stutter is technically a "feature". The idea behind it is that if the second hand gets obstructed it can disconnect from the movement so time keeping isn't affected. The issue is that how much force is required for this mechanism to activate varies wildly and for some units the weight of the second hand itself at the right angle is enough to engage it, resulting in the stutter.
oh holy
its a feature lol
There are tools inside each box! Check underneath the foam.
Been trying for about 15 mins, but the foam simply won't come out. If there are tools in there they're inaccessible 😂 wonder who's idea it was to hide them under there haha
@@BensWatchClub I mean, usually the warranty card is there aswell…
Have you tried twisting and pulling at the same time?
@@BensWatchClub Looks like you need tools to get to the tools haha!
@@BensWatchClub once it comes off the first time, it's easier. Pliers?
@@BensWatchClub try sliding a dull blade around and between the foam and case. Mine was sticky but the twist and lift method mentioned earlier works.
Damn, I feel you about the branding. I am actually a designer and I reached out to Mr Liao at San Martin in an attempt to try and work with them on their logo/branding/packaging etc. Sadly i think they are reluctant to work with people outside the company but I really wish they could improve their branding, there's so much potential there.
I hope you've told them to change the name first. :)
@@damyr nah they should keep it. It's been around awhile now too.
starting from the name... why the fook San Martin (french sounding) when your a completely China based manifacturer?
@@nicoraba cos people think the Chinese just make cheap tat. They forget that most of everything from high end electronics to the battery in their Tesla was made in China. I've got a small collection of watches, including a few Chinese homages and Seiko originals, the Chinese homages are much better quality/value than the Seiko's.
@@oktc68 Quality always finds its way. It's the way of the dragon! :)
I mean, if there's a country which has so much potential to choose a cool brand name, that's China.
Hey Ben! I suggest you check underneath the foam: the tools you mentioned above (that was lacking) can be found there - all complete and accounted for.
I'm an owner of two San Martins. SN020-2G (70's Explorer 39mm Homage) and SN021-4G (BB36 Homage) and can report they are absolutely quality watches. Yes absolutely worth for the price even after import tax.
I have the black 37mm SanMartin Rolex explorer homage, and I was really hesitant to pull the trigger on an almost $300 Chinese homage, BUT I’m so glad I did. I own Orient, Traska, multiple Seiko, multiple Casio, but I keep going back to that 37mm SanMartin. Why? The clasp is literally the best I have used in an under 1000$ watch (maybe even over that), the bracelet finishing is amazing (and has screw links), the case finishing is superb, the crown is easy to manipulate and screw in, the winding feels great (PT5000), the indices are well applied, Lume is better than I would ever dare to hope and rivals my seikos (may be better), it keeps amazing time, and the way the light plays with the AMAZING top hat sapphire crystal just seals the deal and makes the whole dial pop. With it being a “cheap Chinese homage” too, I’m not afraid to just live life in it, so I use it whenever I can as a true tool watch, and this devil-may care attitude that I don’t even have with my G-Shocks has made the entire experience super enjoyable. I have no desire to fill in that “Rolex explorer tool watch” position in my collection anymore because this fills it. 8/10 maybe 9/10 watch, ONLY held back by the fact that this is a Chinese brand. If this was made by Swatch co. With a ETA derivative or SW200, this would easily be $1000 or greater in price. Do not regret this purchase at all!
Well said! I totally agree. I also have a varying collection, but my SN021 LE 39mm and the SN004 LE BB58 in blue keep getting the most wrist time for the reasons you mentioned
Same. I really like mine and was thinking of getting their new GMT.
San Martin is offering a choice of PT5000 and SW200 in many of their offerings now. Absout an extra $220 for the latter. I’m not sure which to get for my first SM. I’ve never had either movement before.
@@conzmoleman Just get the PT5000; I have watches with both movements and I've had no problems with the PT5000. That being said, it's based off of the SW200, which is based off of the ETA2824 which is notorious for winding issues. I have a Certina with the ETA and something inside is broken now. So just shake the watch when you can and don't wind it and you'll be ok. PT500 = SW200 = ETA2824
@@sanjay3415 Thank you for this detailed response!
Purely on specs alone San Martin offer incredible value for money. But you’ve got the ‘X’ factors like guarantee, customer service and branding and company history which sways so many buyers (just like me!)
Great video as always Ben!
Aren't the tools under the foam at the bottom of the new container ? Usually are .
Yes.
Another note to take in is the ever growing pricing of a San Martin. They've become less of a bargain over the years and are really pushing the market at the moment
Please be reasonable and consider quality as well. Comparable Swiss watches are 3/4/5 times the price still.
Yup exactly. They've become _more expensive_ and _less good._ Aliexpress watches can be fun if the price is low enough to offset the inherent negatives (poor qc, no customer service, effectively no returns, questionable intellectual property ethics, unknown worker conditions, long shipping times, risk of damage or loss during transport to name a few). It all feels like a lottery: buy a €300 ticket and if you're lucky you win a half way decent watch. Look at Ben, even when they knowingly send him a watch to review, he gets one with a shoddy movement. Not worth the gamble imo.
Exactly, I was recently in the market for a MM300 homage, was able to look at a couple, San Martin and Proxima, nothing between them in terms of quality of finish, both very good. Case construction and movement separated them, the San Martin opting for a screw case back whereas Proxima (and many others) stick with the monocoque case, as for the movement for the same price as the San Martin with PT5000 the Proxima comes with a Sellita SW200. San Martin aren't the only Chinese company that have started making original designs either.
What exactly are you looking for, the sub,sumo,mm200/300, turtle, and many others homages they offer can be had for about 160-220ish during their sales. They're still pretty affordable, unless you are getting their sw200/gmt you're not hitting 300 all that often.
Yea this is bs. You work for them lol. Its not hard to figure out. These are garbage
They are basically Seiko of china but way luxurious feeling lol
For what it’s worth, I have five San Martin watches and I have been happy with all of them. No movement or qc issues. They are among the highest of the Ali Express brands but in my experience this higher price has been justified by the quality of the product I have received.
If you pull out the foam from the new packaging, you'll find a compartment containing a spring bar tool, sizing screw driver, and a nicely finished metal keychain.
I agree. The new packaging is such a waste of money and plastic. I’d rather have a fiver back in my pocket and the old (useful) case.
People often complain about the price of SM watches, however their level of finishing is exceptional for the price. I guess this can only be truly appreciated through a loupe or macro lens. I would say you get more watch for your money than either Seiko or even Orient for an equivalent price.
Another great video. Thanks Ben. Also was awesome to see my PT5000 thumbnail. 👍
The reason the Miyota 8000 series movements jitter around Is because they have an indirect seconds hand it’s actually supposed to do that at some points and it was built that way. it’s not really an issue so much as it’s how the movement was built. It’s why I prefer the 9000 series movements.
the orange bezel reminds me of a yema. they look better than the earlier ripoffs, but the problem i have with them is from the side, the cases look very unrefuned, think of what cybertruck is to car design. they are blocky, harsh angles. sort of like they couldn't be bothered to streamline the side of the case to the lug.
I also follow other watch reviews for 3 years and feel that Ben gives more insight in detail. Concerning a Chinese watch, I have no problem with an original design or name and innovation. The price of San Martin approaches other large brands with lasting values and then the choice is quickly made.
The Miyota 8015 is renowned for that stuttering second hand and has been for many many years, I'm surprised you've never encountered it before. It's due to the indirect driven second hand and is the reason I avoid that awful movement at all costs and I'm mega surprised San Martin have even considered using it. It doesn't affect the Seiko NH35A because that uses a direct driven second hand and why it's such a highly regarded movement even though it's still firmly in the budget category.
The sn004g retro diver in the thumbnail is one of the best they've ever done, I love mine. They have since upgraded it to a more refined and expensive version 3 but I think they've lost some of the vintage aesthetic in the process.
Enjoyed the video Ben!
I just want to point out one aspect, which I think comes across a bit confusing. When people say a non-chronometer movement runs at, say, 4 sec/day, therefore ‘matching chronometer precision’, that’s not quite true. COSC tests involve multiple positions and temperature changes across 15 days. So if a non-cosc watch is measured at 0 sec/day on one particular occasion, that still doesn’t mean it could pass a cosc test or that it matches cosc precision.
Absolutely. I tried to combat that with "hypothetically", as I'd be surprised if anyone expected a SM to be COSC certified. Sorry if I didn't make that clear enough, I'll note it for future videos
The two "originals" (homages) at 0:58 are both great deals though. the originals go at about $600+ and are not worth anywhere close to that price point. San Martin does a great job at making "scratch the itch" watches
I've reviewed quite a lot of AliExpress watches, from various brands now and I'd definitely say that San Martin is top of the pile so far, in terms of fit, finish and QC. I'd argue that they are now on the same level as microbrands and even some of the bigger brands too.
When it comes to the PT5000 vs SW200 argument. I've got quite a few watches with the PT5000 in now and I've not had any issues with any of them. Some of which I've had for about 2 years now as well. So, for me personally I wouldn't bother paying the extra for the SW200, as from my experience the performance is equal. Granted I don't have as many watches with the SW200, but based on the ones I do have, I've not noticed any difference at all.
What do you think of sugess? they seem to have amazing watches but its always hard to tell online.
I’ve read that the stuttering seconds hand in the Miyota 8 series movements is part of the design. You can search more about this online, but Miyota doesn’t consider this an issue as it does not affect timekeeping.
I like the clamshell cases, you can find practical uses for them. I have several, one of them stores fuses, bulbs etc for my car and stays in the boot of my car. Another houses a whole bunch of watch straps I haven't worn in decades.
Can we talk about how amazing Ben’s editing is?!
The Miyota 8215 is an interesting movement, as it has gone through some changes. If you remember, it originally was non hacking. My experience with Miyota is hit or miss. I found a great deal on a Miyota equipped Laco, which gave me pause, until I read it used the dressed up and regulated version: 821A, which has proved to be almost as accurate as my swiss movements. On the other hand, I bought an Aquacy 1769, and while I was impressed with the thin profile 9015, which is almost as thin as an ETA 2892, it also started randomly stopping 6 months after I bought it, and Aquacy was not overly helpful.
Ben, I love your honesty in your reviews. I would probably have bought the diver if not for the Miyota movement. If not the NH35, then perhaps an Epsom (Orient) movement. Finally, almost all five watches pay some homage to the Submariner.
Hello fellow South African! I dont mind the Miyota but I can see why you would want the NH35. Its a pity however that by the time we get them here they are way more expensive.
Epson owns Seiko too.
@@Rich77UK That they do.
@@Rich77UK , Actually, Epsom-Seiko own both Seiko Watches and Orient Watches, but they are independent from each other. And Orient currently give much better bang for your buck. Not to mention Orient Star.
@@johanvandersandt8904 Goeie naand Johan, die Miyota 8000 reeks is daren baie primitief as jy dit me die NH35 of Epsom Orient vergelyk, veral as jy die prys van lg in ag neem.
My biggest issue ive always had with san martin was their branding. The different logo styles on the faces really did serve to diminish the brand and make it appear as a low tier chinese generic. Glad they stuck with the hexaganal logo design. Always liked that on their dials. Its a dissapointment that they used a downgraded miyota movement on the dive watch. For the money you pay you should get something without a stuttering second hand. I think the SN026 is a nice unique looking watch. Id seriously consider it. Youre right- it looks like nothing else in my collection too.
I applaud San Martin's build quality and affordability but their logo puts me off. In my opinion it looks as if it was designed by a 9 year old. The overall hexagon shape is a good choice and maybe it is intentionally quirky, but the wonky lettering makes me feel queezy. I think it looks naff.
San Martin was always a worthy brand. The best quality for normal people. Not for watch snobs. Their sn004g is my fav watch ever.
Most snobs only criticism is the branding/lack of heritage, or frown upon their whole Chinese made. Whole still praising microbrands that also make their watches out of Chinese factories or parts. San Martin watches are the best value you can get, this while idea of being able to resell a 200 dollars watch is ridiculous, if I'm buying a used entry-level watch I wouldn't pay more than half the original value to begin with, all watches at that price point shouldn't have much value retention, because it's not much more to get it new.
@@gilbertoflores7397 I have 2 watches. Seiko 5 (2010) and that San Martin i have bought early 2022. Both of those are cheap watches. But they look good and tell time nicely. Why would anybody need a history of the brand to be happy with its product ? What would a Rolex of 10 000 USD do better? Nothing. Now, if we were talking about the cars, that Ferrari will certainly be much better everywhere than the Renault Clio. In watches industry you dont get anything better by spending thousands of dollars on a watch.
Don't know if you've already done this but I'd like to see a Cronos review?
I'm not a SM fanboy but it seems you could possibly be being a bit overly critical. 1. Tools under foam in base of plastic watch box. 2. San Martin usually will exchange the clasp for the 4 microadjust if you just ask at time of purchase, usually supplied and fitted at no extra charge. 3. They do advertise the use of the Miyota and allegedly the stuttering does not affect timekeeping and is part of the movement design, which I think other watch reviewers like ILW/ Gary have even reported the stutter protects the movement from inertial forces during activity. Please correct if I have misrepresented that/ him. It’s just the way the movement was designed: a third wheel in the gear train indirectly drives a pinion which advances the seconds hand.
Yeah, this is a thinly veiled hatchet job.
Love your reviews of affordable watches, Ben. Keep it up.
Top quality content as always Ben!
That Miyota movement is definitely faulty. In an 82xx series movement the second hand is indirectly driven which means that the seconds hand will momentarily stop if the movement is subjected to shock. It doesn't affect the accuracy. Some people are bothered by that, others not.
The San Martin here is displaying stutter when it's sitting still which is definitely a defect, either in the movement components (unlikely as Miyota QC is excellent like most Japanese manufacturers) or how they've been adjusted/lubricated/damaged when the watch was cased up (more likely).
The cuts/edits are superb, Ben!
Also, can you add a few shots of the watches in sunlight or natural light, just to get a perspective on how the watch looks outside in real life?
I'm not sure but there seems to be a light tint in the studio setup keeping the watches from having a clear picture.
I have three SN044, all on rubber straps (yellow, navy and green). They take their design cue mainly from the Mido Ocean Star Tribute, at least that's what it looks like to me. I like the no-nonsense design with all those different colours, the tool-watch like sturdiness, the very well designed hands, the very bright and long lasting lume. In the sale they are quite reasonably priced. The movement? It runs well, that's all that matters to me, really. Who needs chronometer precision in a watch these days?
I've got exactly that Bulova last week, and I'm in love with it.
The ‘26G reminds me of two Tag Heuer models-the Monaco, with its tonneau shaped case, but the dial and hour marker track reminiscent of the classic 2000 series automatics of the late 90s / early aughts.
07:03 - Waheyyyy! You used my thumbnail for the pt5000 vids !! 😂👊🏽👊🏽👊🏽 My guy Ben
Stuttering second hands are a perennial problem with Miyota 8 series movements. Amazingly, the Chinese Sea Gull equivalent or even the cheapo DG equivalent don't suffer from this in my experience.
yeah it's a pretty major flaw. I hope they decrease in popularity or come up with a better replacement at the same cost
Every affordable watch channel has been getting paid/sponsored recently to review AliExpress watches. This is getting out of hand.
The spring bar tools etc are under the foam insert . Pull it out and you will see along with the warranty
Just managed it with a set of pliers. Which clown came up with that design for packaging 😂😂 talk about unintuitive haha
@@BensWatchClub yes when I first saw this packaging it took watching another reviewer to see the tools were there. They are not good tools however so best kept where they are.
I do like SM personally reviewed a few and soon intend on taking one apart with the PT5000 inside so I can get a closer look at that movement as it always seems to run superbly out of the box on the timegrapher.
I've got the San Martin LJM 62mas homage, it's very nicely finished, and was worth the money several years back. I would say the current San Martin pricing is too high though, I'm not prepared to gamble with £300-400, and let's be honest, the brand clout is never going to be there to support these prices.
There is no loud rotor noise in the 8215 watch. The case back is so solid, no one can hear it. I have the Tiffany blue dial one, and the brushed polishing is dark grey, not silver. Even the bezel. Great looking watch 😁
It's seriously not that bad on the closeups, I've tried many other of these fun Chinese watches but I'm often deceived by very little but annoying things like particles on the dials or asymmetrical little details etc...
Seems ok, I might order one or two to check it out for myself, with hopes it doesn't fly out straight in the recycling bin along with all the starking & other Cinomakers.
Blue one is the nicest. Out of my budget though.
I had a Junkers with the 8215 movement. that stutter is a normal for that movement - it's not QC...and it's very annoying. That being said, when you can get a Mako 2 for 100-120 $ these days, this offer from San Martin seems ridiculous.
my watch guy said I should check out a San Martin. I got the SN019, and the quality is amazing, especially the bezel and bracelet.
Come on Ben, I need more content from your channel, it’s a part of my staple diet, don’t leave us hanging one of the best on UA-cam.
a great explanation by the guys at the Caliber Corner on the stuttering second hand of the old automatic Miyota movements :
"THE SECOND HAND ON MY MIYOTA POWERED WATCH ISN’T SMOOTH… WHY? Is your automatic timepiece ticking like a quartz watch? Whether you call it stalling, stuttering, shuttering, hesitating, cascading or skipping, rest assured that the sweeping seconds hand on your Miyota movement (and even some older Swiss made movements) isn’t broken, it is normal. While it may be alarming at first, and annoying to many collectors, the central sweeping seconds hand is prone to hesitation or stalling because of what is called an Indirect Drive system.
The Miyota cal 8215 is an indirect sweep seconds design, very common in Swiss watches of even very high grades in the past. It allows for an elegantly simple design of the the watch, in this case the top plate encompasses both the time and winding trains. This view of the train, shows the sweep second pinion which passes through the center wheel, and is driven by the 3rd wheel.”
I like the hexagon logo. I'm glad they're sticking with something consistent.
That orange diver REALLY needs some curve on the lugs. 😂
RE skin condition: I've got psoriasis and have to use skin creams a lot and some crowns are a pain!
It's frustrating isn't it
@@BensWatchClub I have been known to use bad words when encountering slippage.
They make better quality watches imo than Seiko and Orient for the price but it's unfortunate that they aren't better than micros like Phobios imo.
I do like that orange dial though. I picked up the Seiko Samurai SRPC07 so I could have the orange dial version there too
The seemingly stuttering seconds hand is due to the used non-matching of the wheels teeth, it's a constructive feature, not a malfunction. The seconds wheel turns properly, but the "translation" to the seconds hand results in jitter. It's a feature of the movement. After a full circle, the "mistakes even out and the seconds hand is not falling behind. Only the path to get there is irritating.
Seiko, Miyota from 90xx series and ETA 2824 clones are all directly driven second hand movements, that's why they don't stutter. The Miyota 80xx series as like as the Vostok have a small gear that gets the motion from the main gear train and transfer it to the second hand, and this, if not made super well, creates that stutter effect.
I have a few San Martins. I quite enjoy them. I will likely buy another one or two someday....especially if I maybe have a drink or two and do a little spirited watch purchasing. I've tried to swear that off but it happens sometimes. The guilt isn't as bad when an impulse buy only costs a couple hundred dollars and I actually end up wearing it. Even as a planned purchase, I think a San Martin is a pretty solid option in the price range. I agree about the new packaging....it's over the top...and the Miyota movements. I would rather have NH35, YN55, or PT5000.
Very good and honest review mate, had a fair few san martin and my experience with them has always been good. Had the SN044 on the rubber strap and was impressed with the quality for the price point. The branding is something I do find fault with because they are a bit all over with it. Once they sort it out, should be a better experience.
Your lighting and/or color grading leaves a lot to be desired. I recommend more light sources, and also boost the contrast and saturation levels. Thanks for the review.
The Blue dial reminds me of a JLC Polaris dial - very different case, of course.
Just fyi- tools are under the foam.
miyota 8xxx movements have indirectly driven second hand. the stutterring is a consequence of that design. the 9xxx series however has directly driven second hand and shouldn't have this issue. i've had a few 9015/9039/90s5 watches before and none of them stutter.
I love love the fact that they are responding to feedback, and I absolutely love the orange one. Like I'm seriously considering this now
To me the branding should be more minimalistic, and the design and proportions more coherent : for example a 39mm diameter with a 49mm lug to lug ( straight lugs ) is very silly. One says moderate size the other says " I'm gonna overhang on your modest wrist ".
They are very prone to that kind of stuff. They could use a proper designer for more consistency in their design choices, and someone to work on the logo and a smaller package.
That may justify the prices which by now, are actually quite high, especially for a watch you'd send on the other side of the world if something is wrong.
Also, the Alie sales shenanigans that end up being something like an 8% discount or so. Nah.
They got the potential to become a very solid choice and to be something we'd comfortably recommend to new enthusiasts, as long as they hold on humbleness.
If you know how to use all the coupons and vouchers, you can get a discount in the 20-30% range. Their sub/sumo homages can be hand for the 150-160 usd range, so pretty affordable from the 220ish they're normally available at.
Hey Ben, when is the video on the new solar casioaks coming out?
Still haven't pulled the trigger on one, but I'm hoping they get to a point they could be in a window along size Seikos and citizens
The best San Martin reviews I've seen in a while. Not hating on the brand itself but many reviewers of these watches seem to drool over the latest arrived freebie, point you to the affiliate link and move on to the next. Not a great fan of copies which has been their main output so far but these are enough of their own designs to pass muster.
Gary has Left the chat!
I mean he does the same with Casio watches. And this review he's looking for anything to be critical of San Martin, his issues are the movements, which are designed to have that feature, the case it comes in, and other minor things that atwnt very significant, like dial colors (which he picked). I'm not being negative towards him, just that a lot of the things he doesn't like are things he sort of intentionally things he ended up picking himself. I've have no problem with their homage watches, I've picked up a few, and they're incredible, if he tried to do look at the ones they're more known for, he'd understand why people like them, their MOP dials are just really nice, they use the same clasp you'll find on Oris watches, and they can finish bracelets to a significantly better quality than you'll find in any big watch brand for 3-4 times the price.
@@gilbertoflores7397 I got the Water Ghost 600m and I despise it and them
Aside from the markings on the Seiko the watch looked pretty original. The other one was pretty much an homage.
There are tools and accessories in the bottom of the packaging tube!
Just take out the top foam and there they are, hidden, but cool
The miyota stutter is pretty common, although on a barbos diver I had it was perfect, I avoid the 8 series miyota where possible..nh35 is a better choice,👍
The 8215 family of movements actually suffer stuttering due to the indirect drive seconds system that it uses, so it is an inherent design flaw.
The Miyota 8215 has a spring-loaded independent seconds tribe. Most likely, the spring pressure is not enough due to the long and heavy second hand. Look at Citizen watches with the 8215 movement, they have small, short second hands. The Chinese do not take into account the peculiarities of mechanisms when they use them in their watches.
I own there REX1 homage, PT5000, the original of course being the world's most perfect watch in my eyes and one I can't afford....SM quality is fantastic and I'd say was definitely worth the money....assuming the movement holds up long term then it's a keeper for sure....the hex logo is the better one so glad all that's settled....out of the two you showed the tonneau case would be my pick....🏴⌚🏴⌚
Great video Ben! But…don’t know if I’m the only one who’s saying this, you look like the young version of Professor X from X-men
01:37 "Landmines" 🤣🤣🤣...exactly.
It's strange how the miyota movement is bigged up by many sellers as tho it's a great movement but seems it's not that good. With many micro brands now on the market which some of are pretty good as I own many but I actually don't know what's movement is used in them. But I've not noticed this sort of issue with any.
Chinese movements are hit or miss. As a disclaimer, I have not tried the PT5000, and suspect it is probably a solid offering, as it seems to be the flagship of the Chinese 2824 clones. That said, top of the line notwithstanding, I have had 5 Chinese movements, and every one of them has had issues:
(2) Dixmont Guangzhou DG 2813: The first one I bought would randomly stop, and it was cheaper to get a new one than to service it. The second one worked, however, was wildly inaccurate and inconsistent on the timegrapher. It really was a mess. Stay away from this movement.
"Asian" ETA 2824 clone (not a PT5000, and probably not a seagull): This movement is fairly accurate, but the rotor does not spin particularly freely, to the point where a winder will not wind it. Further, there is a troubling amount of resistance while hand winding.
Seagull ST2100 (ETA 2836-2 clone): This movement really did seem nice, until it broke. When adjusting the time (admittedly expediently), it started to skip, and then eventually was impossible to set the time altogether. I took it apart and discovered the time set wheel had actually sheared off a portion of the teeth, which caused the initial skipping, and led to not being able to engage at all. A replacement wheel was over $30 shipped, which I felt was too much.
In the end, the DG equipped watch ended up being a practice watch for working on watches, the 2824 is a pretty watch I now rarely wear, and the 2836 was a custom build watch that I ended up just buying an actual ETA 2836-2 Elabore for... which keeps time as well as my Omega 1120 equipped Seamaster.
How about the San Martin SN040-G2? I'm pretty sure that's original, and it's better priced then these two watches.
I'm still not giving my money to a mainland Chinese brand. I don't care how good the product is.
Of the 2 original designs you are right about the unimatic design but I don't agree that the other is a willard homage
I received a PT5000 powered San Martin 6 weeks ago. It came in the new container complete with spring bar tool, screwdriver and mini keychain. On the time grapher it's between -6 and +6 seconds, depending on position so it's easy to keep it running near or within COSC deviation by choosing the overnight position to counteract the deviation during the day. I'm happy with the purchase so far.
Check inside the lid of the new package, the tools are hidden by the foam insert.
The orange diver is really good looking
Cool watches. I would like to buy SN026-G but it cannot be imported to my country exceeding 150€ import limit. One thing to add here, I think these Chinese brands should use original Chinese brand names.
I've had a brand new NH35 thats fooked from factory. 0.8ms beat error, the BEST adjusted was +426s per day and an amplitude in the mid 140s. Tried everything but it's not having it. Need a replacement.
Check whether the mainspring is bent. Happened to me. I got it fixed locally and it now runs at +2spd.
Why anyone would buy these over the similarly priced Bulova is beyond me.
I think San Martin have priced themselves out of the market when competing with the lower end of the Seiko and Citizen ranges.
A really good review and great points made. 👏
I won't be buying anymore San Martin. I bought the BB58 homage two months ago, and the paint wasn't done properly on the bezel insert numerals. It was thin in spots and started coming off in others. Their CS basically said that wasn't possible and declined to replace the insert, but offered to sell me a replacement instead. Long story short, they don't stand behind their product, even when defective from the factory. For $300, I expected a LOT more.
The 8215 movement should have been consigned to the parts bin by now and it really should not be being used by any self-respecting watch brand. However, the 9 series movements, such as the one in my Lorier Neptune are far better, and in my opinion should be the go to Miyota moving forward.
I have had 5 watches with the pt5000 that broke the winding gear after only weeks of use so I would definitely never recommend this movement to anyone. And the warranty on these watches does not exist in reality. I have tried to send several watches back to China for repair and not even one watch has gotten through the Chinese customs so don’t bother if you have a broken watch. All in all it is always a lottery if the watch one buys from China works well let alone the reliability. Simple put it is not a good idea to buy a watch from China if it all comes down to luck…
Or, you could do what so many of us have done, get into modding, and with minimal practice replace the components (or even more easily, the whole movement) in your own watches for a pittance (compared to the cost of a watchmaker doing it for you)
@@jananilcolonoscopu4034 I am just not sure which movement that can fit in the cases where the pt5000 is
@@lassejupin6684 well you are in luck sir, because I'm here to tell you that you could pop in anything from an ETA 2824, to a Sellita SW200 series, to a sea-gull ST2130, an SL3000 or any number of cheaper "A2824" clone movements you can pick up on eBay. It's a nice standard set of specs, made to fit any ETA 2824 clone for any price.
@@jananilcolonoscopu4034 thank you a lot
that's good to know. next time I'm in the market for a San Martin I'll aim for a Swiss mvmt if I can, and if the price difference isn't too great
The best Chinese watch brand is Seagull. However Pagani and San Martin deserves recognition for their efforts and improvements.
Diver is nice, but I have had my share of Miyota. No more! With NH35 I might buy one. I have a few San Martin, great watched
The blue one looks more like an old Mido Commander 8016.
The anti personnel mines were just in case you gave them a bad review!
Love your channel. Please review Ratio ii watches. I own 3 of them and find them incredible for their price.
Either Ben is extremely unlucky with his SMs or he's simply more thorough in his reviews. Going by 95% of SM reviews on YT, these things are supposedly the chit when it comes to finishing, QC and build quality. I just ordered their BB GMT (aluminium Pepsi) homage and it's supposed to arrive next Wednesday. First SM I've ever bought, so I guess I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that they're sending me a good one. I wouldn't want to have to send it back to China - and that's probably one of the biggest drawbacks with these brands and one of the reasons why I have been reluctant to buy one of their pieces in the past.
That San Martin doesn't even remotely look like Seiko captain willard, Ben...