Love this podcast because imho this topic needs to be talked about way more in the Christian space in America. It’s a complex and controversial topic, but one that’s important to try to study and understand
First to comment! Love the show! Been watching from the beginning and enjoy listening to you all day at work. huge blessing in my life. God bless y’all:)
How do you work through sin in the church when it is a younger person seeing older leaders act sin? And sins like excessive worrying, traits of gossip, negative comments about others, false testimony, and refusal to call out sin in the church.
I've been struggling a lot with "religious OCD' for weeks. I have so much doubt lately about whether God really and truly cares about me as the Bible says. I grew up as a Christian and have believed in His Salvation for my whole life. That never changes, no matter what I do. I have a simplified novel version of the Bible, called The Story, which is helping a lot. When I make a mistake in my day, I do make sure to pray about it and ask for forgiveness. But I do not do it all the time; only at night because that is when I feel I can give it all my focus and heart to Him. I've done it that way forever and I never saw anything wrong with it. I always have this anxiety like I'm doing something very wrong and I need to prove myself. It's literally ruining my peace of mind and it's destroying my sleep because I just can't help but feel like I'm in trouble with Him in some way. Is what I'm doing enough for Him? I sin all the time, without meaning to, and ask forgiveness. But is there a limit to how many times God can forgive me? Because of this current anxiety, I can barely open the Bible and read it because I misinterpret a lot of it, I don't feel comfortable at Church and I want to avoid everything that would make me negatively obsess over God. I know He doesn't want me to worry about this in this way. I listen to non-Christian music and read non-Christian Books, watch non-Christian movies/TV, etc. Still, I do not doubt God's salvation for me. I just don't see how it could be as simple as believing in Jesus' promise to forgive ALL sins...Even mine. I'm forcing myself not to take an interest in popular entertainment for fear it's completely and utterly awful, even though I enjoy it when I'm bored, scared to get close to people because they aren't acting "Christian enough", hating myself for who I am, though I typically do believe I am a good enough person. How can I be safe to let all of these things go? It just seems like the Bible and Christianity are just about RULES and if you happen to break them, God gets angry. I've read Galatians for example in the context of 'legalism' and that there are NO requirements, but I just can't help but doubt it.
I've been in a very similar situation, especially during my first years of college when I really started dedicating my life to Jesus. This is just my two cents, not a pastor/preacher or anyone important, but I feel in order to combat these kinds of issues, we need to expand our perception of God as a loving father. This was an especially difficult concept for me, as I dealt with an earthly father who I would describe as distant at the best of times and verbally abusive at the worst. God is just. He hates sin, and a big struggle for many of my years in the faith was being addicted to pornography. Whenever I would fall into temptation I would feel like a massive failure, like God was looking down from heaven and frowning in disappointment. Yet I came to realize this when I was listening to David Marvin (a clip from Instagram haha), where he said God does not look at certain moments in our lives and judge us like we judge ourselves. He sees the whole picture all at once, from the start of our walk till the end. He delights in the process of sanctification just as much as in our finished product. Part of Zechariah 4:10 (NLT) was a great encouragement for me in this aspect: "Do not despise these small beginnings, for the Lord rejoices to see the work begin, to see the plumb line in Zerubbabel’s hand.”
Have you thought about seeking counseling or a psychiatrist? I am not asking that to offend you but I ask because I’ve been there. I feel like I tried everything under the sun religiously but what I realized was what I was experiencing was mental and I needed medical help to even get on the right track spiritually. It’s just a thought and I wanted to put it out there. Praying God give you wisdom, peace and clarity!
hi i actually go through the exact same thing because i too have spiritual ocd and struggle heavily with doubt! i can truly relate with wanting to avoid God out of fear of the thoughts coming in, but I started seeing a Christian counselor a few months ago and they really helped me clarify my beliefs and how to fight against it! but I'll be praying for you because i know this isn't fun and its really hard. but just know you are not alone and God is not mad or upset. He patiently waits with us in our humanity and He knows this isn't your fault. Faith is pursuing God even in the midst of doubts. Love you and praying for you in this tough journey. He will use this as a testimony!
How do you juggle as a Christian being accepting of new people in the church and having that open door for those that may have made mistakes in the past?
@@BenMattox I don't know how to juggle it, I'm not a pastor. I know how NOT to juggle it. You DON'T juggle it by questioning the salvation of someone who is a professed believer based on some arbitrary behavior, otherwise we are ALL screwed. My ranting is due to inconsistency and arbitrariness of the behaviors that pastors like to call out to say that "if you do x, then I have to question your salvation" well then I can take ANY person from the most noble pastor to Hunter Biden and everyone in between and question their salvation
@@BenMattoxFor me it boils down to two things, assuming they claim to be "Christians:" Action and Attitude. Action: Are they still engaged in the mistakes of the past? What steps have they taken to remove themselves or prevent similar situations from happening in the future? Of course we all fall and make mistakes, especially in cases of longstanding addiction. Then comes the second part: Attitude: How do they treat their past (and present mistakes)? Is it no big deal to them? "Just a season?" "Almost everyone's done that?" Or do they truly regret their actions? "I was so broken, but Christ saved me from myself." This again plays into the action portion, as they way they respond to their past sin partially reveals their attitudes towards it. My two cents is that we have an open door for those who have made past mistakes, but we do not tolerate people claiming to be Christians condoning sin through their actions. To treat sin as "no big deal" and not as the life destroying thing that it is means to implicitly marginalize its horridness. Of course, I am feeling very convicted myself as I write this. We all at some level do this, but a key to solving it is to lovingly confront the individual on their behavior and push them towards the right direction.
According to JP Its better to be a non-believer who "acts right" than a believer who doesnt "act right" I'd rather follow the gospel and believe on Jesus for my salvation than have to sit there and analyze everything i do to determine whether my sin has crossed the threshold from stumbling to unrepenance. JP must be gunning for John Macarthur's job
You should probably actually be more thorough with this accusation. If you’re gonna be angry at what has been said. Your comment there was just makes it sound like you’re mad or upset that he wants you to be accountable.
@@holy_lettuce he needs to take accountability for spreading a false, works backloaded gospel. Either Jesus died as payment for my sins or he didn't. As far as accountability, if I were to say that I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, then that would just make me puffed up with pride, and it would also make me a liar. (1 John 1:10) And nowhere in the bible does it say "if you sin x-percent of the time, then your repentance isn't genuine" Just a few weeks ago, JP preached that Christianity isn't behavior modification. Now this whole podcast is about modifying behavior. Your turn
@@pappasc79 yeah see you literally just talked about being puffed up with pride and ended your message with “your turn” in a prideful way. I’m not here to attack you but have a conversation. I get you’re clearly like mad for sure. But he did not say in this anything about Jesus not dying for all our sin. He has said many times that he believes Jesus has died for all sins past present and future. But what I feel like you fail to understand is that this topic is on how we should live as Christian’s. They mention in the podcast it’s very nuanced. They used scripture backing why they believe what they believe on this topic. The Bible is pretty clear on what makes someone a Christian and how they should act. But from what you’re saying your words could easily be spun into. “I got saved I can now do whatever I want now my place in heaven is secure.” But we are called to more than that aren’t we?
@@holy_lettuce 1. the "your turn" just meant I was done with what I had to say 2. Yes, we are called to more than just lascivious living. But these snake oil preachers can't use the faulty logic of "being good doesn't mean youre saved but being bad means you're not saved" That's as stupid as saying "If you behave, that means I bought you lunch yesterday. If you misbehave, then I didn't buy you lunch yesterday"
@@pappasc79 thanks for clarifying because that isn’t how it came across. But also again from watching and listening to this whole video I don’t really know how you came to that conclusion that this is exactly what he is saying. From listening to sermons he did from the porch, the Friday Q&A, his sermons at Harris creek not once has he been on the fence of the sin after repentance equals hell equation. What are your thoughts on faith without works is dead? It’s not a works based faith that gets you into heaven correct? But James says faith without works is dead. How are both of those things true? Does the Bible have a faulty logic here?
It happens It's unfortunate, and we hope it doesn't happen, but in Jesus' own words regarding salvation, "it is finished" And everyone backslides in different ways. The person who backslides into pride (which is inevitable for anyone who thinks they're fully abiding by the Christian code of conduct) is no better than the drug addict relapsing. In this flesh, we are all "sin addicts"
@@pappasc79 is it wrong to separate yourself because of their bad influence? I try to be a good soldier and endure and I don’t feel too strong having to divide myself because temptation begins to like at me while being around them for long periods of time. They’ve not abandoned God, they strongly believe, they just Peruse the flesh and don’t really care, how do you handle this or approach it seeing we all have different views and opinions?
@@sethl7858 I separate myself from people most of the time for those reasons. Whether they are believers or not is not my problem, God can see if they have faith in their heart, I'll let him do his job
@@pappasc79 do you try to bring them back to the word or do you leave them alone and pray for them? I try to do both but I’ve realized only God can make this happen
@@pappasc79 I feel convicted to bring the word to them and everyone. The one job Jesus gave us was to go into all the world. I feel like I’m not following his command by backing down and as JP said it’s not about what’s comfortable but what’s right even when hard
A lot of companies are not Christian stores. Buy and use only what you need it doesn’t have to be the clothing they sell. Hanes, fruit of the loom and so forth and Gildan make good clothing. Not that they are Christian brands but not everything has to be a high end designer. Matthew 6, Is the life not more than food and is the body not more than for clothing? Food companies lie about the chemicals in the food. There’s a lot to it but buy what you NEED where you have to. 1 Corinthians 10:31 whatever you do even as to what you eat and drink, do to the glory of God. All the money such as apple I phones and so forth is going to promote world views anyhow. You and I cannot control what the world creates, sells and promotes but we can control what we do with the life we have been in-trusted with. This world isn’t your home, you only eat and drink to feed your body. Our body is just a vessel that holds us back. It just a vessel to do a job we were created to do. Give your body what it needs and not what it desires. Give your spirit what it need and what it desires.
@@sethl7858 target is promoting a satanic agenda We are stewards of God's money A true church leader would be yelling from the mountaintop that shopping at Target is literally giving God's resources to demonic forces. But I'm the bad guy!!!!!
It's surprising hey, it's not really clear that he acts that way but he seems to have heaps of concerning stances and questions? For a Christian who is leading youth ministries
Ok I’m confused.. I’m new to this podcast, I’ve listened to a few in the past but recently started listening to more, is Nate always playing the devils advocate? Like is he on here to dispute you and you give him a rebuttal?
@@gabrielgarcia-zw8fu Thank you.. I was like if Nate doesn’t agree with Pokluda why is he even part of this podcast?? 😅 Seemed like he was just going against everything he was saying
His logic: If you cross some arbitrary line of sin, then Jesus didnt die 1990 years ago. Nowhere in thr Bible does it say "you need to sin less than x percent of the time otherwise youre unrepentant" and MY ACTIONS today CANNOT disqualify Jesus' actions on the cross.
I think JP is saying the actions indicate the heart. If someone is habitually acting in sin, it’s best to call them out, and ask them, “what do you believe about the Gospel/Gods word”. That indicates where their heart lies
@@maxstooksberry9458 The DBR of Jesus happened 1990 years ago. I believe that it happened to pay for my sins. There is NOTHING I can do to void that transaction.
Your actions do not disqualify Jesus’s actions but your actions do demonstrate your beliefs. Jesus clearly states that it is not enough to call Him Lord in Matt 7:21. But that you must DO the will of the father. Modern Protestant Christianity (of which I am a part of) has misled so many people into thinking that their actions are of no importance. If you claim Jesus but continue to walk in sin unashamedly you are a liar.
When she had her last kid she decided it was time to step away from being on staff at HC and focus on discipleship in her family and with her kids. They talked about it on an episode I just can’t remember which one
@@zkstucky oh your right I do remember this, but I didn’t realize that meant podcast too ! Dang that sucks but I’m glad she is focused on her fam, I hope she comes back soon casue I feel like the dynamic between them 4 would be great
This conversation is so needed. I was blind and didn’t understand for so long. Keep talking about the hard things we need to understand. Thank you!
"Your life DOES reflect your values." 🔥🔥
Love this podcast because imho this topic needs to be talked about way more in the Christian space in America. It’s a complex and controversial topic, but one that’s important to try to study and understand
May the Lord bless everyone from Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic! Amen to that!
SPEAKING STRAIGHT TRUTH!!! Thank you for this 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼 got me fired up!
First to comment! Love the show! Been watching from the beginning and enjoy listening to you all day at work. huge blessing in my life. God bless y’all:)
Second comment, have a great day too
LOVE THIS!
How do you work through sin in the church when it is a younger person seeing older leaders act sin? And sins like excessive worrying, traits of gossip, negative comments about others, false testimony, and refusal to call out sin in the church.
I've been struggling a lot with "religious OCD' for weeks. I have so much doubt lately about whether God really and truly cares about me as the Bible says. I grew up as a Christian and have believed in His Salvation for my whole life. That never changes, no matter what I do. I have a simplified novel version of the Bible, called The Story, which is helping a lot. When I make a mistake in my day, I do make sure to pray about it and ask for forgiveness. But I do not do it all the time; only at night because that is when I feel I can give it all my focus and heart to Him. I've done it that way forever and I never saw anything wrong with it. I always have this anxiety like I'm doing something very wrong and I need to prove myself. It's literally ruining my peace of mind and it's destroying my sleep because I just can't help but feel like I'm in trouble with Him in some way. Is what I'm doing enough for Him? I sin all the time, without meaning to, and ask forgiveness. But is there a limit to how many times God can forgive me?
Because of this current anxiety, I can barely open the Bible and read it because I misinterpret a lot of it, I don't feel comfortable at Church and I want to avoid everything that would make me negatively obsess over God. I know He doesn't want me to worry about this in this way. I listen to non-Christian music and read non-Christian Books, watch non-Christian movies/TV, etc. Still, I do not doubt God's salvation for me. I just don't see how it could be as simple as believing in Jesus' promise to forgive ALL sins...Even mine.
I'm forcing myself not to take an interest in popular entertainment for fear it's completely and utterly awful, even though I enjoy it when I'm bored, scared to get close to people because they aren't acting "Christian enough", hating myself for who I am, though I typically do believe I am a good enough person. How can I be safe to let all of these things go? It just seems like the Bible and Christianity are just about RULES and if you happen to break them, God gets angry. I've read Galatians for example in the context of 'legalism' and that there are NO requirements, but I just can't help but doubt it.
I've been in a very similar situation, especially during my first years of college when I really started dedicating my life to Jesus. This is just my two cents, not a pastor/preacher or anyone important, but I feel in order to combat these kinds of issues, we need to expand our perception of God as a loving father. This was an especially difficult concept for me, as I dealt with an earthly father who I would describe as distant at the best of times and verbally abusive at the worst.
God is just. He hates sin, and a big struggle for many of my years in the faith was being addicted to pornography. Whenever I would fall into temptation I would feel like a massive failure, like God was looking down from heaven and frowning in disappointment. Yet I came to realize this when I was listening to David Marvin (a clip from Instagram haha), where he said God does not look at certain moments in our lives and judge us like we judge ourselves. He sees the whole picture all at once, from the start of our walk till the end. He delights in the process of sanctification just as much as in our finished product.
Part of Zechariah 4:10 (NLT) was a great encouragement for me in this aspect: "Do not despise these small beginnings, for the Lord rejoices to see the work begin, to see the plumb line in Zerubbabel’s hand.”
Have you thought about seeking counseling or a psychiatrist? I am not asking that to offend you but I ask because I’ve been there. I feel like I tried everything under the sun religiously but what I realized was what I was experiencing was mental and I needed medical help to even get on the right track spiritually. It’s just a thought and I wanted to put it out there.
Praying God give you wisdom, peace and clarity!
hi i actually go through the exact same thing because i too have spiritual ocd and struggle heavily with doubt! i can truly relate with wanting to avoid God out of fear of the thoughts coming in, but I started seeing a Christian counselor a few months ago and they really helped me clarify my beliefs and how to fight against it! but I'll be praying for you because i know this isn't fun and its really hard. but just know you are not alone and God is not mad or upset. He patiently waits with us in our humanity and He knows this isn't your fault. Faith is pursuing God even in the midst of doubts. Love you and praying for you in this tough journey. He will use this as a testimony!
How do you juggle as a Christian being accepting of new people in the church and having that open door for those that may have made mistakes in the past?
2 words: "Christ crucified"
We're all dirty rotten sinners to the core, no matter how buttoned up we appear.
@@pappasc79 I understand what you are saying but still doesn't answer the question
@@BenMattox I don't know how to juggle it, I'm not a pastor.
I know how NOT to juggle it.
You DON'T juggle it by questioning the salvation of someone who is a professed believer based on some arbitrary behavior, otherwise we are ALL screwed. My ranting is due to inconsistency and arbitrariness of the behaviors that pastors like to call out to say that "if you do x, then I have to question your salvation" well then I can take ANY person from the most noble pastor to Hunter Biden and everyone in between and question their salvation
@@BenMattoxFor me it boils down to two things, assuming they claim to be "Christians:" Action and Attitude.
Action: Are they still engaged in the mistakes of the past? What steps have they taken to remove themselves or prevent similar situations from happening in the future?
Of course we all fall and make mistakes, especially in cases of longstanding addiction. Then comes the second part:
Attitude: How do they treat their past (and present mistakes)? Is it no big deal to them? "Just a season?" "Almost everyone's done that?"
Or do they truly regret their actions? "I was so broken, but Christ saved me from myself." This again plays into the action portion, as they way they respond to their past sin partially reveals their attitudes towards it.
My two cents is that we have an open door for those who have made past mistakes, but we do not tolerate people claiming to be Christians condoning sin through their actions. To treat sin as "no big deal" and not as the life destroying thing that it is means to implicitly marginalize its horridness. Of course, I am feeling very convicted myself as I write this. We all at some level do this, but a key to solving it is to lovingly confront the individual on their behavior and push them towards the right direction.
According to JP
Its better to be a non-believer who "acts right" than a believer who doesnt "act right"
I'd rather follow the gospel and believe on Jesus for my salvation than have to sit there and analyze everything i do to determine whether my sin has crossed the threshold from stumbling to unrepenance.
JP must be gunning for John Macarthur's job
You should probably actually be more thorough with this accusation. If you’re gonna be angry at what has been said. Your comment there was just makes it sound like you’re mad or upset that he wants you to be accountable.
@@holy_lettuce he needs to take accountability for spreading a false, works backloaded gospel. Either Jesus died as payment for my sins or he didn't.
As far as accountability, if I were to say that I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, then that would just make me puffed up with pride, and it would also make me a liar. (1 John 1:10)
And nowhere in the bible does it say "if you sin x-percent of the time, then your repentance isn't genuine"
Just a few weeks ago, JP preached that Christianity isn't behavior modification. Now this whole podcast is about modifying behavior.
Your turn
@@pappasc79 yeah see you literally just talked about being puffed up with pride and ended your message with “your turn” in a prideful way. I’m not here to attack you but have a conversation. I get you’re clearly like mad for sure. But he did not say in this anything about Jesus not dying for all our sin. He has said many times that he believes Jesus has died for all sins past present and future. But what I feel like you fail to understand is that this topic is on how we should live as Christian’s. They mention in the podcast it’s very nuanced. They used scripture backing why they believe what they believe on this topic. The Bible is pretty clear on what makes someone a Christian and how they should act. But from what you’re saying your words could easily be spun into. “I got saved I can now do whatever I want now my place in heaven is secure.” But we are called to more than that aren’t we?
@@holy_lettuce 1. the "your turn" just meant I was done with what I had to say
2. Yes, we are called to more than just lascivious living. But these snake oil preachers can't use the faulty logic of "being good doesn't mean youre saved but being bad means you're not saved"
That's as stupid as saying "If you behave, that means I bought you lunch yesterday. If you misbehave, then I didn't buy you lunch yesterday"
@@pappasc79 thanks for clarifying because that isn’t how it came across. But also again from watching and listening to this whole video I don’t really know how you came to that conclusion that this is exactly what he is saying. From listening to sermons he did from the porch, the Friday Q&A, his sermons at Harris creek not once has he been on the fence of the sin after repentance equals hell equation.
What are your thoughts on faith without works is dead? It’s not a works based faith that gets you into heaven correct?
But James says faith without works is dead. How are both of those things true? Does the Bible have a faulty logic here?
What if you have seen a radical change but have now backslid over the years and refuse to be corrected?
It happens
It's unfortunate, and we hope it doesn't happen, but in Jesus' own words regarding salvation, "it is finished"
And everyone backslides in different ways. The person who backslides into pride (which is inevitable for anyone who thinks they're fully abiding by the Christian code of conduct) is no better than the drug addict relapsing.
In this flesh, we are all "sin addicts"
@@pappasc79 is it wrong to separate yourself because of their bad influence? I try to be a good soldier and endure and I don’t feel too strong having to divide myself because temptation begins to like at me while being around them for long periods of time. They’ve not abandoned God, they strongly believe, they just Peruse the flesh and don’t really care, how do you handle this or approach it seeing we all have different views and opinions?
@@sethl7858 I separate myself from people most of the time for those reasons. Whether they are believers or not is not my problem, God can see if they have faith in their heart, I'll let him do his job
@@pappasc79 do you try to bring them back to the word or do you leave them alone and pray for them? I try to do both but I’ve realized only God can make this happen
@@pappasc79 I feel convicted to bring the word to them and everyone. The one job Jesus gave us was to go into all the world. I feel like I’m not following his command by backing down and as JP said it’s not about what’s comfortable but what’s right even when hard
Are people in your church still shopping at Target??
A lot of companies are not Christian stores. Buy and use only what you need it doesn’t have to be the clothing they sell. Hanes, fruit of the loom and so forth and Gildan make good clothing. Not that they are Christian brands but not everything has to be a high end designer. Matthew 6, Is the life not more than food and is the body not more than for clothing? Food companies lie about the chemicals in the food. There’s a lot to it but buy what you NEED where you have to. 1 Corinthians 10:31 whatever you do even as to what you eat and drink, do to the glory of God. All the money such as apple I phones and so forth is going to promote world views anyhow. You and I cannot control what the world creates, sells and promotes but we can control what we do with the life we have been in-trusted with. This world isn’t your home, you only eat and drink to feed your body. Our body is just a vessel that holds us back. It just a vessel to do a job we were created to do. Give your body what it needs and not what it desires. Give your spirit what it need and what it desires.
@@sethl7858 target is promoting a satanic agenda
We are stewards of God's money
A true church leader would be yelling from the mountaintop that shopping at Target is literally giving God's resources to demonic forces.
But I'm the bad guy!!!!!
I am confused. Who is Nate? Is he not a christian or is he just pretending he doesnt know what they are talking about
Yes haha, it can be hard to like understand that because I did too, but he is taking the stance of an unbeliever
Ok, thanks. I got to listen to more since this and that's what I assumed.@@keithdwayne
It's surprising hey, it's not really clear that he acts that way but he seems to have heaps of concerning stances and questions? For a Christian who is leading youth ministries
Ok I’m confused.. I’m new to this podcast, I’ve listened to a few in the past but recently started listening to more, is Nate always playing the devils advocate? Like is he on here to dispute you and you give him a rebuttal?
Yea pretty much. He's been like that since they started.
@@gabrielgarcia-zw8fu
Thank you.. I was like if Nate doesn’t agree with Pokluda why is he even part of this podcast?? 😅
Seemed like he was just going against everything he was saying
@@Natalia_72 😂 yea right? But it's a good example as to how we can respond to common pushbacks from those who are not in the faith.
@@gabrielgarcia-zw8fu I totally agree!!
His logic: If you cross some arbitrary line of sin, then Jesus didnt die 1990 years ago. Nowhere in thr Bible does it say "you need to sin less than x percent of the time otherwise youre unrepentant" and MY ACTIONS today CANNOT disqualify Jesus' actions on the cross.
I think JP is saying the actions indicate the heart. If someone is habitually acting in sin, it’s best to call them out, and ask them, “what do you believe about the Gospel/Gods word”. That indicates where their heart lies
@@maxstooksberry9458 The DBR of Jesus happened 1990 years ago.
I believe that it happened to pay for my sins.
There is NOTHING I can do to void that transaction.
@@pappasc79 i agree, If you truly trust in Jesus for salvation, you are saved.
@@maxstooksberry9458 the simplicity of the gospel my friend! I'm not trying to build a new building so I can preach the gospel and nothing but!
Your actions do not disqualify Jesus’s actions but your actions do demonstrate your beliefs. Jesus clearly states that it is not enough to call Him Lord in Matt 7:21. But that you must DO the will of the father. Modern Protestant Christianity (of which I am a part of) has misled so many people into thinking that their actions are of no importance. If you claim Jesus but continue to walk in sin unashamedly you are a liar.
Is Kathy not on the podcast anymore ? Been missin her 🥲
Don’t get me wrong been lovin Madi, but we need Kathy too!!
When she had her last kid she decided it was time to step away from being on staff at HC and focus on discipleship in her family and with her kids. They talked about it on an episode I just can’t remember which one
@@zkstucky oh your right I do remember this, but I didn’t realize that meant podcast too ! Dang that sucks but I’m glad she is focused on her fam, I hope she comes back soon casue I feel like the dynamic between them 4 would be great