Making a custom tap on the the mini lathe. || RotarySMP
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- A friend asked my about a tap for a special thread, and it got me intriqued. So I made a tool using only the CNC Minilathe, Maho MH400E CNC mill, Clarksons T&C Grinder, G. Boley 4LV lathe and heat treatment oven :)
Hmmm I still don't know if the aircraft bolt thingy was sarcastic or not.
Not sarcasm. Those high strength corrosion resistant bolts used in the hot section gall really easily, so if you try and remove them, you are likely to get a bunch stuck half off and galled. By just cranking them tighter and snapping them all, you have much less risk of damaging a flange dealing with a seized bolt.
@@RotarySMP F404 afterburner flameholder bolts are the same way, I learned to my surprise quite a long time ago.
@@RotarySMP oh interesting didn't think about that, yeah seized bolts are a pain in the but to remove, at my work we could mill them out but that's not possible everytime you have a seized bold
@@RotarySMP also neatly avoids the risk of reuse ;)
@@fuzzy1dk There's something comforting about safety-critical work and helping people avoid catastrophically bad decisions.
Even worse that screwing up the last op is when your mate doesn't trust your capability and goes all retail on you. Nice to see the mini lathe earning it's keep.
Regards,
Mark
"Earning it's keep" Yeah right! (Tui advert)
I always feel lucky too that I have friends that have a perfectly good credit card and yet feel the need to verbalize every thought they have. The next thing I know is I’m going down the rabbit hole of ‘I can make that’ while they continue the conversation with themselves and order what they need online. 🤣😂🤣 Great job. At least you got to warm up every tool in the shop and refresh your ability to make sample parts. 👍👍😎👍👍
I asked Jörg-Peter to say… but I bought one… to have a joke. Jokes on me!
Tony made it look easy - good to see that it isn’t! Good job despite the adversity encountered - and kudos for the precise avoidance of the cut-off disk meeting the chuck!!
Thanks. I see those videos of "Make a tap in 15 minutes" ... this one took me four days!
LOL! After all that work, it was no longer needed 😃 All in all, interesting video, covering your journey through it.
Yeah, I should have communicated with him better :(
@@RotarySMP One way or another, we all have dealt with similar circumstances 😃
@@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT Still, it made for a good punchline.
@@RotarySMP Yep 😃
Before grinding it was looking like it was going to be one of the best home-made taps on UA-cam. But then... Oh well.
Nice to see the Mini Lathe getting an airing 👍
Yeah, I did fugly it up at the end.
Even your friend didn't need it anymore, it was a good thing and new knowledge gained setup wise. Well done
Thanks for the encouragement.
@@RotarySMP If he breaks his new tap, you're still a hero :)
@@bobapthorpe Good point.
@@bobapthorpe Rotary will always be my hero 👍😎👍
@@joell439 Thanks for the positive feedback!
It's nice to have you as a friend
Would have been better if I had communicated with Jörg.
Coming up next week: Brazing metric studs to leather cutting tools.
Great video as always!
Thanks for the feedback.
You know, that you're like a supplement right now, where Tony is out of the way? I hope you could keep the pace - I really love your videos. I came for the mini lathe, I stayed because you are just funny and entertaining. I love to see those kinds of videos, where you just fumble around with stuff. This is quality content. Thanks and greetings from germany.
Thanks for the kind feedback.
Your videos are better and better, although one year ago they were brilliant. I look forward every sunday for new content from you.
Your #3 best fan (after #1 Nico and #2 your daughter of course). Hello from Czechia!
Thanks for the positive feedback.
3:17 That old worn out Boley lathe will make beautiful surface finishes long after we are gone.
Yeah, it is amazing how well even a worn out industrial lathe works. It is really nice to use.
After making this tap ….”breaking a tap” brings with it a whole new world of pain!
Yeah, I would have been mad if this had broken immediately.
So those CNC tools of yours actually make things. Very nice.
Rarely, but yes :) Thanks.
"What's a 'need' when it comes to a tool?"...that's how I justify any new tool purchase. If you don't 'need' it now, you may eventually.
Shame the finance minister doesnt understand.
I've heard an engineer reply to his wife when asked, " how many more machines/tools do you need", and everytime he replies, "just one more".
@@tcratius1748 Oh, I like that.
@@RotarySMP The trick is to once in a while bribe the finance minister with something they might enjoy.
That's far nicer than the last tap I made... I needed a 1/2" 3 start Acme tap and I ended up having to make it with a dremel... In the end it worked but it was really ugly. I can't even remember what I had to make the tap for anymore.
Sounds like a beast of job, as Dremels are not exactly ideal for fast metal removal. Good on you for making it work.
Once again you are an inspiration to me. I've been so busy lately doing obligation projects, the kind you have to do, not the ones you want to do, that I have been unable to work on my shop projects. I still haven't had an opportunity to use my new U3 cutter grinder. When I see you having so much fun, I get inspired to make the time to work on my projects.
Glad you enjoyed it. I really should have been doing on a service on the car this week.
Great work. At least you didn't break the tap.
Not yet :)
You do have the formula down. Best machinist UA-cam around. Thank you for making my Sundays complete. Please keep it up.
Thanks for the roses. I rewatched Tony's tap making video. I have a lot to learn.
Wow, super interesting video. Good to see the Boley and the CNC mini lathe getting a workout. That "green mystery goo" looked suspiciously like Anchor Lube (really good stuff for tough machining jobs, but may not be available in the EU).
It is water soluble, and phosphoresses a lot. Pretty evil looking snot :)
Nice cutaway to the Rolls-Royce factory.
Thanks.
What a nice project!
Btw I wouldn't mind an excursion into the design process in Free CAD tbh.
Pretty simple. A bar, a taper on the end, and a triangle drawn and swept along a helix. Finally the flute and then a crown array of it.
@@RotarySMP Offf.... I'm happy when I manage to extrude a shape in FreeCAD 🤣 So that's still way beyond my level
@@Elektronaut FreeCad is a bit of a clunky interface. Try Onshape, which is a bit more forgiven for beginners. But basically it really was just:
1/ XZ plane - draw a circle of the tap OD.
2/ Extrude to tap length.
3/ XY plane - Draw a small triangle whch represents the thread form (this took a bit of simple math and head scratching), position it out from the CL so the tip is at the thread minor diameter.
4/ Use the loft along helix function to make the thread
5/ I used the chamfer tool, with dimensions of 1mm and 10mm to make the tip taper.
Awesome mini-vise! Everyone needs one of those!
Yeah, it really is. Perfect size and easy to adjust. Surprised they are not copied in PRC?
Oh you bathplug with the Clarkson vice! 👍 very useful kit, i use a J&S one on my Clarkson which is a little too big
This is a really nice addition to the shop.
I'm not surprised you know Quinn; you and she are both cool people.
Thanks. I dont know her, but like her channel.
24 tpi sounds like a #12-24 tap. Which is slightly larger than 1/4".
No, a #12 is .044 inches smaller than 1/4". ( 12 × .013 ) + .060 = .216
1/4-24 would be #14.615-24
#12-24 would be 115964117/536870912-24 (fractions are ugly when carried too far)
Or in metric:
#12-24 would be M5.4864x1.058
1/4-24 would be M6.35x1.058
I'm a bit envious of those who get to work primarily with metric threads.
He measured it as 6.32mm, so I thought 1/4. The nut I made seemed to fit very well.
Hello Mark,
Have you got my house bugged... I was talking just last week to one of the guys you mentioned that has made a tap and they were saying how they got lots of views from that video... Good to see some many of your machines in action... Catch you next week.
Take care.
Paul,,
Thanks Paul, I thought it was a good time to relieve viewers of constant electrical cabinet videos.
Hey, that's no uglier than MY first shop-made tap! Only, you spent a lot less time on yours. Mine took a couple tries, and not having a grinder, it took hand-stoning the flutes and reliefs. It tapped the ONE hole I needed. To this day, I don't know what size it was supposed to be.... nothing in Machinery's Handbook matched. It was on a Pre-WWI handgun, so, who knows what thread system it was using. Still have that tap somehwere, but, I don't know that it has another thread in steel in it.
Possibly Whitworth?
@@jonathan1427 Possibly... but it didn't quite match any of those, either. With 100+ years of wear, and original slop, I'll probably never know...
I was a bit disappointed about that final grind. Thinking about it, I should have used a normal wheel, not a cup, and I could have had the surface to be ground at the top, and had better vis on it.
@@RotarySMP Well, like I said, it looks WORLDS better than my "dremel and hand stones" tap, and yours will probably cut a second thread!
It is highly remarkable. My UA-cam database in my head says you took too many passes cutting the thread. Yet I like the mini-lathe, and the vice is fantastic.
I dont have enough experience with thread cutting or G76 multipass. If I do to few passes, the thread is normally ragged. This worked well in that the tool didn't rub, so I got a really nice surface finish in the thread. Lucky the exra passes only add a few second with CNC.
@@RotarySMP just thinking of something TOT said, don't goes overboard on the passes and finish it us with a file. Yet, he was reducing the burs on the peaks. However, you might have been able to create the defined peaks by using the grinder. In saying that, it cut the right thread, so really, it's not a big issue. I'd certainly be pleased with that effort. Is it me or does TOT sound like Hawkeye from Mash?
@@tcratius1748 TOT does sound a bit like Hawkeye.
My test piece had the flat topped thread because I first cut the diameter wrong. I correctde that, and then the proper tap had normal tops. Still slightly truncated, but that is the Unified norm. If they had come out with sharp tips, I would have cut too deeply.
Well, at least he has a backup tap now, in case the bought one breaks.
There is that.
Right from the beginning I'm thinking "Surely you can just buy that?"...Nice video though & I've never seen one of those Clarkson vices!
Thanks. Yeah, but I had a weird desire to make one.
@@RotarySMP Yeah, sometimes you want to make something just... because!
@@MidEngineering It is a hobby, and just buying everything makes it a shopping hobby and not a machining hobby.
good video rotarySMP
Thanks for that.
This makes me feel better about myself... I always have the same. Somewhere along the lines I'll damage something and make it ugly
Annoying with this happens.
2:48 "It's muuuuuch, toooooo late..... for goodbye..."
Thanks.
@@RotarySMP The song sounds like Julian Lennon ua-cam.com/video/aQs1Ynq0rlk/v-deo.html
@@tahwnikcufos Yeah. But it is just one of the free YT music options.
I wonder if it would have been better to cut the threads before the relief on each end of the tap form. That would have had less spring when thread cutting, and it might have cut closer to the expected size.
Good point. I didn't think of that.
Great video. Pity about the last sharpening operation. I hope you get as many views as I got for mine.
Thanks John, I hope so too :)
Mark
10:20 I like the funky music! 14:20!!
Thanks for the feedback.
14:56 this is the part most people dont understand.
Watch the video I linked at that spot from Andy Pugh... His is perfect.
Great video as always, thank you. Regards -Geoff- Heather
Thanks Geother :)
Great video.....I better give it a try
I think I could have done a better freehand job of the final grind :(
@@RotarySMP really not to shabby up until that point though.
@@westweld Thanks.
Blowing my own trumpet, on my channel I have a few things thread cutting related. One a one hand three wire gizmo, another a micrometer for measuring the flat at the pointy end of a threading tool. The easy use threading tool won't interest you as you have CNC. I have CNC but in my case it stands for Chris' Numbskull Control.🤔
Thanks, I'll take a look.
Well cool. I'd have gotten on McM and bought one for $25 but I have the benefit of being an America. I know, I know, it's good practice.
Yeah, but it is a hobby, and if I buy everything then the hobby is shopping and not machining :)
Mate, you should have just given us living in "imperial that will never die" land a shout out and we'd have shipped you a box full of these weird 6.325mm x 1.0208mm taps. Oh, wait, if you'd done that then I wouldn't be commenting on my first thing on Sunday morning entertainment! Sorry, nothing to see here, move along, move along.
The best thing about standards is that there are so many to choose between.
The twist ending lol
Yeah... Oh well :)
Hey you made it to the tape cutter, now on to gears :D
CNC's dont need gears :)
@@RotarySMP but nearly every machining channel makes them at least once ;)
You are right there. Sooner or later it will come.
it's china clay slurry, used for blocking oxygen while it's quite inert.
Thanks.
Mystery green German goo!..it could be anything, toothpaste, does it smell minty? Acid rain condensate from the black forest perhaps. You are as much a skinflint with worn out cut-off wheels as I am, good to see.
I actually dug through the trash bag to fish that worn out disc back out. :)
@@RotarySMP We have all been there. Can be difficult to tell the thrifty from the desperate at times.
@@m3chanist Good one :)
Hey mate. Good sunday to you.
Just fyi - there is People that sell taps. 😀
Hi Nikolai. So I found out. Still, It was a good variation for the viewers from constant Schaublin electrical cabinet chopping :)
@@RotarySMP good job. It had the same cutting sounds as some of My taps from My drawers. Haha
@@nikolaiownz No back clearance is bitch :)
dont feel to sad about it-we all f**k sh*t up..some more than others😁
You: my mate needs a tap....
Me: hmmm, seems like an elaborate way to make a 1/4 24 tap... He's gonna give it to his buddy and he's gonna be like I bought one weeks ago....
You: shows up at mates house and he totally bought one of Amazon.🤦♂️
Maybe the journey was the goal :) And I could have communicated better!
14:32 i was thinking of those cylindrical dremel stones, usually pink...if you could mount dremel securely enough, that would be the challenge..
I got a clearance lot of 3M epoxy and adhesive at least 15 or more years ago, nothing to use on so cast rounds, it worked like new and the adhesive still good but more viscous.
I have a couple of nice internal grinding stones, but no arbor to fit them to the Clarkson. I also had a think about bodging my air die grinder to the Clarkson, but the cut off disc worked suprisingly well.
12:13 might be zirconium mold wash they normally use for sand casting. Is it mixed with metho.? I worked at a foundry many moons ago and they would paint the sand moulds in something that looks very similar to that. When done you would light it on fire to burn off the solvent.
Could be similar.
Dick not telling you he got one already... :) Good video as always.
Nah, the lack of communication was on me. Thanks for the feedback.
Заход у метчика слишком длинный получился. Начало метчика не работает, так как очень маленький диаметр получился. Затыловка нужна максимум на 3-4 первых нитках. Поэтому он внешне выглядит не очень привлекательно. Но без сомнений он точно хорошо работает😊
Good points all of them.
Awesome content as always! But it hurts deep inside when I see the heat sink on the oven control pointing downwards. Sooo bad for free convection!
But it make it look like a space ship. That is also worth something. There is no convection in a vaccuum.
You can use for example gear tooth calipers to measure how far the threading tool needs to be plunged from the tip of the threading tool.
Yeah, but I dont have any. Would be another nice tool to have.
@@RotarySMP I put a link to aliexpress but UA-cam doesn't like links so it got removed right away
Also there's some name brand ones below 100e on ebay if a chinese tool is no-no
@@MF175mp Thanks. I am on tool purchase withdraw therapy at present :)
I can send you a few Bierdeckel over, so your lathe stops wobbling around.
:) I bumped the camera stand a few times. Didn't notice in editing. Sorry.
.... and even Musk fans cheering this amazing TAP.
Thanks.
Good times
Thanks.
If one already has a grade 8 bolt, why not just use the universal grinder and cut reliefs in it to make it into a tap?
Because a grade 8 bolt is not hardened s much as tool steel, and will wear fast, or not work at all in steel.
Omg, flashback.... that FeC Diagram caused me taking three attempts at materials science exam at tech university....
Yeah, I remember having to draw it from memory too
It's interesting (Well, at least to me) that it is pure coincidence that the Curie temperature is also the transition temperature. It could, in principle, be lower. But not higher as Austenite is not magnetic.
@@andypughtube I thought the transition temp is the switch to Austenite, and there for the reason for it being the Curie temp.
nice
Thanks.
@@RotarySMP :)
Thanks for the amazing videos as always!! Quite a while ago you gave me some tips on epoxy granite for the lathe I was designing which were extremely helpful, thanks again. I now have the cross slide mostly complete, although I still have to scrape 3 foot ways by hand to go from hot rolled steel to ideally within 2 thou over their length which seems…. Daunting…. I was thinking of using an angle grinder to get within 10-20 thou and then filing and then scraping to final dimension? Hopefully that doesn’t sound too insane but if you have any thoughts on it Id love to hear them! As a college student who only saw a lathe in real life starting a year ago any experienced opinions are treasured hahaha. Thanks again for the great content!
Cool project. Angle grinder “scraping” is used by the pros on harden bed machines, so it is a thing. Use one of those for overlapping sandpaper style discs, with fine grit, and take it slow. Where are you posting this build? I’d like to see it.
RotarySMP thanks a ton! Im starting with hot rolled steel and not especially straight hot rolled steel so the angle grinder flap disk will hopefully improve my life by miles hahaha. Unfortunately I don’t really have a youtube channel, although I was actually thinking of possibly making one for this project? My progress is slow for sure, but it would be a cool way to document the project! Do you have any tips for starting a channel by any chance? It feels a little intimidating to get started posting on a channel but itd be really cool to share and see what people think/what they’d change and all.
@@robertsteinwandel6658 I started just editing my first videos in the free video editor in MS. Main thing is just go for it. Start simple with short videos. You get better over time.
RotarySMP Thanks! Ill let you know when I get that started up if you’re interested!
I find it far easier to use a full form insert. I am far more likely to have the right one in stock than I am to have a selection of wires. LOL I never use single point inserts to cut a thread, far too much messing around.
Good point. Measuring over wires is a PITA.
@@RotarySMP Keith Rucker showed a set where the 3 wires were held together in about the right configuration for use with some kind of flexible thing (rubber? String? I cannot remember)
Much easier to handle, and harder to drop. It also meant the multiple set of 3 wires couldn't mix up the wires.
@@RotarySMP I was never going there. As I needed to make threads on a production basis, my relief on discovering that full profile insets existed was immense. The cost of an insert per pitch is irrelevant, when it gives perfect threads all the time, with only the measurement of the Major diameter required.
Makes sense for production. Since I was only mucking around, this was a good learning experience.
I did bent a longer wire into a U so two would stay in place, and then just needed to hold the third with one hand while holding the micrometer with the other. The third hand turned the ratchet.
Straw color? Im seeing blue too. Too much heat
The recommendation for small taps was 270°C, which is beyond blue, into brown. I just followed that recommendation. Seems like a good choice, as Jörg did the job, in steel, and power tapped the 8 parts :0
What's the runout on your mini lathe now that it's mostly completed?
I didn't do anything to the spindle which would affect runout. I just except replaced the ball bearings with tapered roller bearings. This may have been a mistake. If the bearing bores were are poorly machined as most features, the rigidity of tapered rollers will be fighting misalignment, and they will wear out fast.
@@RotarySMP some people say to replace with tapered roller bearings others say angular contact bearings, is it the same thing?
@@ryanr3618 No, the geometry is different. Both provide significantly greater stiffness then radial ball bearings, but also require much tighter tolerances on the bores and shaft.
My Chinesium set of taps came with a 1/4 24 UNS tap. Turned out I needed it to repair a 1950s US made bankers chair. But then, I live in one of the very few god forsaken countries that still chooses to express the metric system in a base 12 set of units (well, sort of. The inch and pound are defined in a metric equivalents).
Weird one to get in a set.
I’d find another friend if I were you …
Nah, it was my bad communication
i can't reply, so new post: Xynudu has a nice rig ua-cam.com/video/gnTr1HuJzAQ/v-deo.html and Ca Lem just did an excellent vid: ua-cam.com/video/e37pgKDQ-Cw/v-deo.html Grinding toolpost - milling attachment
Thanks for the links. I have been following Ca Lem
What engraver do you have?
None. That was just my Proxxon little grinder thing.
@@RotarySMP ok i have a little hand belt sander from proxxon.. i need a dremel... i wish i had money for one of thoes fancy german small grinders but i will have to do with a cheaper dremel.
@@nikolaiownz That expensive pencil grinder which Gotteswinter uses looks really nice
@@RotarySMP exacly the grinder i am thinking about. I think Peter Stanton uses it aswell. I think a dremel with the flex extension mounted on My work bench would be just fine for us haha
That is the ugliest tap I saw in my life. Good job! :D
I was pretty annoyed. Thought it looked good till my fugly grinding at the end.
So what is it, you don’t have any money or your wife says you don’t have any money?
Busted by the finance minister!
Every. Single. Time.
@@jdmorgan82 :)
i took my 1/4-24's and threw them in the trash. we don't need more of these things in the world.
Good call.
a lesser man would have tested it in aluminum instead of brass.
Thanks. A braver man would have tested it in steel, as Jörg needed to cut steel :)
Garage machinist lol
Yep, that is me :)
.
:)
My wife saw your disgusting green stuff and said “must have been on sale” to buy that color.
Good call.