Hoka Rincon 3 - First Run - Rosario 800

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  • Опубліковано 21 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 127

  • @christianschobinger1131
    @christianschobinger1131 3 роки тому +8

    The footage at the lakeside is just awesome, looks like your running on the waves 😀

  • @timtrenholm3698
    @timtrenholm3698 3 роки тому +4

    I'm just waiting to see multiple 250km longer term reviews on the Rincon v3, before I pull the trigger. My Mach4's are now at 250km and they are still awesome, but the dual layer ProFly system is a complete win in my book. You just can't have lazy shuffling form in the Mach4 or risk chewing through the outsole. This is where I'm hoping the additional rubber and reformulated Compression EVA will allow the Rincon v3 to slot in for my spring 2022 marathon training block. Great review and workout information, as always Mr. Ko!

  • @adityaroy7616
    @adityaroy7616 3 роки тому +23

    The video title show how Kofuzi loves the Mach 4.

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому +5

      it's always on my mind

    • @adityaroy7616
      @adityaroy7616 3 роки тому

      @@kofuzi well, India doesn't have Hoka 😁

    • @arjyaprakash
      @arjyaprakash 3 роки тому +2

      @@adityaroy7616 TataCLiQ just started selling Hoka shoes. Good discounts in the inaugural offer on certain cards.

  • @karls8989
    @karls8989 3 роки тому +2

    been running in this shoe for about a month in my rotation and I love putting it on. it just feels great.

    • @boomboom316
      @boomboom316 3 роки тому +1

      What are the other shoes you have in rotation? I’m looking for something to pair my rebel v2s for 10k and up slow/easy training runs.

    • @karls8989
      @karls8989 3 роки тому

      @@boomboom316 a clifton 8 and a puma velocity nitro. this shoe though is so versatile imo

  • @earlaverilla9250
    @earlaverilla9250 3 роки тому +2

    Nice review as always. Enjoyed it. For me I find the Rincon 3 versatile. Looking at several UA-camr runners' efforts, I consider my running skills very much on the slow end of the spectrum but I find the Rincon very good as well at easy/recovery pace (which is really slow at this point) to the fact that I always fight the temptation to use it again more frequently than sticking to my rotation. Not bad for my first ever pair of Hoka's.

  • @skylerkeene8457
    @skylerkeene8457 3 роки тому +3

    Futurama reference was pretty chefs kiss.

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому

      a lot of people don't catch the Speed Holes reference. even fewer are going to get that Futurama reference

  • @teetertotter5787
    @teetertotter5787 3 роки тому +12

    Oops. Title says Hoka Mach 4?

  • @Formerly-known-as-Steve
    @Formerly-known-as-Steve 3 роки тому +1

    I’m glad you generally like them I bought a pair this morning. My first Rincon

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому +1

      I hope you enjoy them!

  • @donnybrooklads
    @donnybrooklads 2 роки тому

    Doing my fastest road TT's 400m-800m PBs with these and are a terrific daily 5-12 k training day. After that you do "feel" the road. Highly recommend!

  • @TristWallace
    @TristWallace 3 роки тому +8

    This shoe is incredibly narrow. I ordered the wide version and it was still narrow and causing blisters. I have accepted that my wide feet cannot fit into Hokas, but I am not mad about it. The Rebel v2 wide version is a better performing shoe for me and the midsole has more life to it.

    • @benchia
      @benchia 3 роки тому +1

      Useful heads up, thanks!

    • @abdoben2269
      @abdoben2269 2 роки тому

      I HAVE THE SAME PROBLEME WHEN RUNING MY BIG TOE HIT IN THE INDSIDE

  • @davidmusil4145
    @davidmusil4145 3 роки тому +4

    Here before the title changes

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому +1

      you guys are faster than me

  • @BillyBobJoeSnr
    @BillyBobJoeSnr Рік тому

    I love my rincon 3s, I've enjoyed many miles in them. They are light and padded enough to do lengthy runs.

  • @Xavis0
    @Xavis0 3 роки тому +1

    I absolutely love this colourway. The women's pink one is even better IMO. Disappiontingly, most Hokas don't fit me well (need to go a full size-and-a-half up to get Carbon X2s feeling right), so this likely isn't going to be a shoe for me, but it does seem like a good shoe for people who might want a Clifton-lite.

  • @Syahidsahoarder
    @Syahidsahoarder 3 роки тому +2

    Early to call it a Mach 4 review !

  • @jp05598
    @jp05598 3 роки тому +3

    One thing I thought of the other day is what’s keeping companies from adding TPU/ nylon plates to shoes since the endorphin speed was such a hit. The rincon with a nylon plate might be super exciting. Just a thought

    • @roostermiller
      @roostermiller 3 роки тому +1

      Great point, I was thinking the same thing. It would add some projection to the toe off and as the foam starts to break down it would still keep its pop. As long as they don't change the cushioning because I think they have the right mix with the foam, feels a lot like the softer profly in the mach 4. If the change the upper to a superlight weight/ racing material as well, like the track spike, it would keep weight low to counter the additional weight from the plate. food for thought

    • @paddywiggle
      @paddywiggle 3 роки тому +2

      Not really the right direction for this shoe. It’s a low pricepoint shoe. It would make more sense in the Mach 5, make it a bit more expensive, and add a plate.

    • @roostermiller
      @roostermiller 3 роки тому

      @@paddywiggle fair point, but I disagree as they put a carbon plate in the bondi (bondi x). I'm in Australia and the rincon 3 retails for about $199. So if you put a nylon plate in the rincon, and it retails for $250 (in Australia) it would be the same price point as the saucony endorphin speed 2.

    • @jp05598
      @jp05598 3 роки тому +1

      @@paddywiggle yeah you’re right, just surprised other companies didn’t try to enter that space. I guess there’s the asics magic speed. But I’d like to see a hoka, adidas, nike, new balance, etc come out with a nylon plated shoe

    • @roostermiller
      @roostermiller 3 роки тому

      @@jp05598 sketchers came out with a carbon infused nylon H plate in the max road 5 which I'd love to try.

  • @MsCMR80
    @MsCMR80 2 роки тому

    I’m so late the to comment but trying to catch up on all the missed videos 😅
    I ran my first marathon on Ghost 12s and towards mile 17 they felt like I was wearing sandbags on my feet (just a bit too heavy). I’m back in Pegasus 38s and about to start on planing for my second marathon. I had considered the first version of Rincons but bc there was no wide option, I played it super safe and had stuck w the Ghosts.
    Now that I’ve got that marathon under my belt, I know I want to retain some cushioning as I’m not an under 4 he marathoner (aiming for 4:30s) but I also want something lighter and more part for the marathon distance. Now my mind is split between:
    Rincon 3
    Nike Invincible
    Adidas Boost 22 (women’s specific shoe)
    Puma Deviate Nitro
    Kofuzi (cos you know shoes and prob hear more from female runners than the rest of his) and ladies out there: thoughts and recommendations are always welcome 🙏🏽
    Thank you and great review video 🤙🏽

  • @Chongyy
    @Chongyy 3 роки тому +20

    Yeah, just got home to this :D. Definitely Rincon 3 not Mach 4

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому +2

      yup. I would say the thumbnail gives some subtle clues

  • @BrendonCamm
    @BrendonCamm 3 роки тому +10

    Not shoe related, but those glasses look awesome.

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому +3

      thanks! I've been enjoying them. a lot more reflections to deal with, but I'll get it sorted out eventually (maybe)

  • @elliegrimes7712
    @elliegrimes7712 3 роки тому

    I got the rincon 2 on offer a month or so ago. Hands down my favourite shoe so far. I’ve asked for the 3 in the pink and green colourway for Christmas. I can just use it for everything from long easy efforts to strides and some faster intervals.

  • @steveh5242
    @steveh5242 3 роки тому

    Interesting on your commentary regarding the Boston and the Rincon being a replacement for the Boston in a lot of people's rotations. I have both the Rincon 3 and Adios 6 and am finding the Adios 6 to be even more of a spiritual replacement for what the Boston used to represent. Both are excellent shoes but the Lightstrike Pro in the Adios 6 gives a bit more pop for those uptempo workouts, whereas I like the Rincon 3 for cruising/moderate paces. Excited to see your thoughts on the Adios eventually!

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому

      I’m so intrigued by the Adios 6

  • @akullak
    @akullak 3 роки тому +4

    Hi Mike. Please help me out.
    Speed work: Hoka Rincon 3 vs NB Rebel V2?
    Easy runs: Hoka Mach 4 vs NB 1080 V11?
    Or Hoka Clifton?
    Feel free to add options. Thanks

  • @hawaiianrussian1047
    @hawaiianrussian1047 3 роки тому

    I have planter fasciitis and these shoes are great. Like everyone is saying these shoes are not meant for constant long distance runners more for your average occasional few times a week cardio workout runners like me lol. They put a lot of emphasis on the heel which is exactly where I feel my pain and I also add a pair or DrScholls athletic insoles in them and it feels like I’m walking/running on clouds 😍 lol downside is like he says in the video the tongue of the shoe does hold a little tight so after a while you will feel it in the front of your feet but overall these shoes are great

  • @adriengoux
    @adriengoux 3 роки тому

    As I watch your videos I realized how fast you are running!
    I chase a sub 20 5k after starting a few months ago. most of my runs are around 5'10 5'40 per km. I still struggle to maintain speed without going full out (below 4') and then I can't keep the pace more than a km or 2.

  • @viniciusely6960
    @viniciusely6960 11 місяців тому

    Hi everybody. My brand new Rincon 3 pair size US 10.5D is disappointingly heavier than claimed by Hoka (210g for US 9), even considering their longer length. Right foot weighs 234g and left foot weighs 224g. I had never had such an inconsistency within a pair. Visually they are perfectly mirrored, no eye-spot difference. I've found online a few similar reviews about this issue, not on Rincon's but other Hoka models. Looks like they've been lacking some QC standards. Does anyone ever experienced it with Hoka? Thank you

  • @robertdailey7248
    @robertdailey7248 3 роки тому

    It appears that the tongue design may have changed. The v2 had a defective design on the medial side of the tongue and caused the shoe to cut into my foot. I hate wearing socks when I run, so I just went back to running in the Pegasus 38.

  • @nizam_mr
    @nizam_mr 3 роки тому

    I enjoyed my Rincon3 as much as my Rebel2.
    Since theyre overlapping where both do speed stuff, i converted my Rincon3 into lightweight long mile runner by swapping its insole with my Boston9 lightstrike insole.
    Superb light cushioned long plodding shoe that dont kill my legs when im tired like my Novablast does 😀
    I didnt have Clifton 7/8, but i used to run in Clifton6(up to 1200km before retired). Rincon3 outsole is identical to Clifton6

  • @JavierISampedroTNF
    @JavierISampedroTNF 3 роки тому +1

    I am tempted to get the Rincons after being a big fan of the first version. My problem: I am using Pegs 37 and Novablast in my daily trainer rotation, plus Puma Liberate Nitro for some speed sessions. Back in the days when used the Rincon 1, it was versatile for speed and also easy days. I know the Mach 4 is there but... For a race day, which one would you go for, Mach 4 or Rincon 3? if not being carbon like the Carbon X 2.

  • @maileyros6280
    @maileyros6280 3 роки тому

    yup that iconic pull tab is now a bit of an eyesore..could have just leave it like the same as before..not a rincon user ( more of hoka trail series)..but the color way still pumped up

  • @eulogyforadream
    @eulogyforadream 3 роки тому

    That workout looks tough but a lot of fun. I want to try it out during my next marathon training block

  • @hexfire
    @hexfire 3 роки тому +1

    How does it compare to Kinvara?

  • @jreible1
    @jreible1 3 роки тому +2

    I found the hoka Clifton 8 arch support to be too invasive for my foot. I could feel the top edge of the arch under my foot. How does the Rincon 3 or Mach 4 compare?

    • @Dias4815162342
      @Dias4815162342 3 роки тому +1

      I had same issue with clifton. Now I have the Mach 4 and it feels great 😉

  • @ronandraveche2372
    @ronandraveche2372 3 роки тому

    Love the color

  • @nehallavey-khan7209
    @nehallavey-khan7209 3 роки тому +1

    Great video thanks! I would be interested in your initial thoughts on the Rincon 3 vs Rebel V2?

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому +3

      it's definitely a video I'm planning on making. I'll have to run in them both close together in similar workouts to be sure, but I'm thinking that the Rebel 2 will feel a bit more nimble and a bit springier/faster. but I think the Rincon 3 will have better road manners and cruising speed.

    • @nehallavey-khan7209
      @nehallavey-khan7209 3 роки тому

      @@kofuzi Thanks - much appreciated 👍🏽

  • @queuebit
    @queuebit 3 роки тому +1

    I'm glad the comments are here.
    I thought I didn't understand running shoes and naming, this made it worst ;P.

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому

      I'm really sorry to hear that. is it the names that the shoes are given by the manufacturers that are confusing? or is there something I can do better as a communicator?

    • @queuebit
      @queuebit 3 роки тому

      @@kofuzi Sorry, my joking / sarcasm didn't come across well.
      I don't understand running shoes / brands / segments well. This video was just funny in that the title said one name and the video said another.
      (to self) - wait so the same shoe goes by two different names? /sarcasm
      -----
      Have you thought of doing a questionnaire / recommendation website for running shoes? -- some form of interactive Wirecutter for shoes.
      You have such great knowledge, I want to be able to steal, but I don't know the right words / questions to get the shoes I should.

  • @leescharich6876
    @leescharich6876 3 роки тому

    Your form mate, very good

  • @eulogyforadream
    @eulogyforadream 2 роки тому

    I just did this workout. Tough but so much fun. Thanks for sharing it.
    How accurate have Yasso 800's and the Rosario workout have been in terms of your marathon time?

  • @florianarnold6664
    @florianarnold6664 3 роки тому

    Hey hey... Greetz from Germany! Would you recommend the Rincon 3s for a faster long run effort? I loved my Rincon 2s for my favorite progressive long run

  • @robertot.m.8747
    @robertot.m.8747 3 роки тому

    I don´t know why but I still don´t get the point of this shoe although I was completely I love with Rincon2 from the very first time. I use orthotics, and I can tell that the shoe is completely different to the precessors! I don´t like it in general terms nor the micro tongue (no material to grab it), nor the general feeling (to me it looks like if it was designed for supinators, not a neutral shoe). Great review as usual!

  • @iputuoka2707
    @iputuoka2707 3 роки тому

    Yeah,, i waited for 100 miles rincon2 review but never come. And nb tempo as well.

  • @ryeyan8613
    @ryeyan8613 8 місяців тому

    Im size 8 in my new balance 1080 should i get 7.5 in rincon 3?

  • @ThomasLaang
    @ThomasLaang 3 роки тому

    Love that Bender reference... 🙂

  •  3 роки тому

    I lovved the pull tab on Rincon 2, this looks like it's gonna break

  • @tatoum9743
    @tatoum9743 3 роки тому +1

    Yes for me, the best daily for 5k or 10k...

  • @cuqkodok2781
    @cuqkodok2781 3 роки тому

    hi, had you experienced Ilitiobal Band syndrome ? if yes, how you treat it? thanks a lot

  • @victory4life00
    @victory4life00 3 роки тому

    You got the Bondi X yet?

  • @dvnnyv6325
    @dvnnyv6325 3 роки тому

    Do you think Chicago’s seasonal elements will wear down the shoe a lot faster?

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому +1

      I think the only weather that could be problematic would be if you’re running in salty slushy conditions. I usually like light trail shoes or goretex shoes in that scenario.

  • @iBrA1MAN
    @iBrA1MAN 3 роки тому

    I have 35 miles on my Rincon 3 now and they feel amazing for me. Do you find the tongue slightly too short? That's the only annoying drawback for me. Also I find the rubber on the outsole very different from rubber Hoka's used before. I feel it a bit more durable and crazy grippy on the pavement.

  • @CoolInOlympia
    @CoolInOlympia 2 роки тому

    Mental toughness. I definitely want to work on that!

  • @marcsalzman8204
    @marcsalzman8204 3 роки тому

    when are the new shirts coming?

  • @lindal986
    @lindal986 3 роки тому

    Waves! looking really grey , colorway is awesome.

  • @charlesthomsen2869
    @charlesthomsen2869 2 роки тому +1

    Hoka seems to listen to the people and do the opposite. People have been saying that the toe box is too narrow, so what do they do... make it more narrow.

  • @DaddyGokky
    @DaddyGokky 3 роки тому

    What is the black thing on the laces of his left foot in every video?

  • @nickfifield1
    @nickfifield1 2 роки тому

    Suggested shoes for wider forefoot ?

  • @yanyanyan6941
    @yanyanyan6941 8 місяців тому

    is it true to size or run big?

  • @georgesa.videau8332
    @georgesa.videau8332 3 роки тому

    Did you have the opportunity to try the Adidas adios 6?

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому

      Not yet. I will get to them in the buildup for CIM

    • @valjean2036
      @valjean2036 3 роки тому

      I love under armour chargers

    • @valjean2036
      @valjean2036 3 роки тому

      Going tp get this as my first in this brand

  • @mursingbro
    @mursingbro 3 роки тому

    I thought I saw you last weekend. I was running behind you trying to muster the courage to say hello. As I got closer….turns out it was just your Mexican brother with similar hair and stash.

  • @kaishunider4110
    @kaishunider4110 3 роки тому +5

    Need to change the title Rincon3 instead of mach4

  • @fredknoch
    @fredknoch 3 роки тому

    This is totally my shoe (lightweight, fast/nimble, and cheap) except I cannot wear them. Too narrow on the lateral toe. The upper rubs on my outer toe and would probably case blisters in a few miles. Most Hoka shoes are too narrow in the toe box.

    • @cotejnfrs
      @cotejnfrs 3 роки тому

      Hey Fred, I had the same issue with the Rincon 2, had to resell them ☹ . But got the 3 in the wide option and they feel good. Might be worth a try? Good luck

  • @Nonixification
    @Nonixification 3 роки тому

    Just bought the Carbon X 2 and the midsole is firm like a brick, and I remember some other youtubers said it has a soft foam. How is Hoka trying to compete with ZoomX? This is clearly not the way. Sorry Michael, I had to write it down somewhere :)

  • @jonimzari1687
    @jonimzari1687 3 роки тому

    Does it come in Wide?

    • @supertrooper5356
      @supertrooper5356 2 роки тому

      Yes which is a huge bonus and needed. I feel like Hoka shoes get narrower and narrower each year.

  • @apocreg11
    @apocreg11 3 роки тому

    They look crazy narrow like the 2

  • @hieulequang2918
    @hieulequang2918 3 роки тому

    Should I buy it

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому

      I've told you what the shoe is good for and how well it does it's intended job. only you can answer whether you should buy it

    • @hieulequang2918
      @hieulequang2918 3 роки тому

      @@kofuzi I hear many people don't like this shoes

  • @Simo.PT.
    @Simo.PT. 3 роки тому

    Would you suggest for the final run of a triathlon (10k or 21k) between 5 and 6 Min/km?

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому +1

      I did my first and only triathlon in the Carbon X2 with some speed laces. They were great. The Rincon would also be a very good option.

    • @Simo.PT.
      @Simo.PT. 3 роки тому

      @@kofuzi thanks, you're great. A lot of positive energy

  • @marceloamador92024
    @marceloamador92024 3 роки тому

    Time to do a review with clear sole protectors, maybe sneaker heads are onto something

  • @aw412
    @aw412 3 роки тому

    Stop wondering or searching. Buy this shoes. Go out right now, try this shoes on, and immediately buy it.

  • @terryfurlong518
    @terryfurlong518 3 роки тому +3

    Too err is human. Forgive Devine. Unless this was intended to catch our attention then that worked too.

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому

      ah, yes. now I see it

  • @maxhudson4577
    @maxhudson4577 3 роки тому

    The poor viewer who didn't realize it was the rincon 3, then went to his local running store demanding this "Mach 4"
    Man this color way is SWEET though. Always more willing to buy a cool color shoe.

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому

      sorry about the title error

    • @maxhudson4577
      @maxhudson4577 3 роки тому +1

      @@kofuzi Happens to everyone I'm a big fan! Fun little mishap.

  • @garethevans2499
    @garethevans2499 3 роки тому

    Rincon 3: the poor man's carbon plate

  • @maxsievers8251
    @maxsievers8251 3 роки тому

    You need to shock the muscle!

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому

      They were shocked, figuratively speaking

  • @MrJermson
    @MrJermson 3 роки тому +5

    When you are still thinking about your Ex...

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому +3

      it took me a while to figure out what you are talking about. now I see it

  • @ozenfant_ozn
    @ozenfant_ozn 3 роки тому

    i want one. or better, a pair.

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому +2

      I recommend going for the set

  • @spotlight761
    @spotlight761 3 роки тому

    Version 2 was less breathable than version 1. Version 3 looks less breathable than version 2.

  • @marceloamador92024
    @marceloamador92024 3 роки тому

    I thought hokas is a premium brand. Just got 2 pairs rincons, and 1 pair of carbon. The rincons are going back and keeping the carbons to look like a POSER.
    Jog 3days 3 miles, 2 days 6 miles that means that in 1 month the hokas are going to b breaking up , no thanks.
    Nike renew 2 the energy is 👏 and those are entry level

  • @enkiorion1347
    @enkiorion1347 8 місяців тому

    Rip 🪦 nike 😜

  • @panagiotischaralampopoulos7152
    @panagiotischaralampopoulos7152 3 роки тому

    THIRD VERSION FOR A MODEL WHICH ONE VERSION WAS ENOUGH!!!!!!
    ALL VERSIONS ARE THE SAME MORE OR LESS
    IS HOKA JOKING????????
    HOKA HAS LOST THE MEANING OF RUNNING AND HAS TRANSFORMED TO A COMMERCIAL HYPE SHOES COMPANY.
    UNFORTUNATELY RUNNING HAS BECOME SOMETHING LIKE ASTROPHYSICS AND THERE IS REAALY NO POINT IN ANALYSING A SIMPLE SPORT LIKE RUNNING .
    RUNNING IS A SPORT AND ASTROPHYSICS IS SCIENCE NO NEED TRYING TO PRESENT RUNNING LIKE IS SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE TO STUDY A LIFETIME TO MANAGE RUNNING PROPERLY.

    • @kofuzi
      @kofuzi  3 роки тому +2

      Why are you yelling? Is it to mask the inadequacy of your reasoning?
      One can certainly disagree, but one should do it with less insecurity than this.

    • @panagiotischaralampopoulos7152
      @panagiotischaralampopoulos7152 3 роки тому

      @@kofuzi i never understood why the use of headletters is considered as yelling. of course i disagree and i ma not trying to hide anything. i am only telling that the company is manufacturing very expensive shoes with no difference at all between models. it is like the pharmaceutical companies who change the dose of an igridient to a drug and the summon a whole congress to advertise their new "innovation". And please do not judge so easily especially people who are older than you and running is a hobby for them . ia m not insecure ..i am simply furious with all this hype and the tendency to create new models without purpose just to keep us the interest of potential byuers who probably do not have any relationship with running. you as an expert must be very sceptical about all this hype which has transformed running shoes to a "pasarela" od expensive shoe models which are not accesible to many of us.

    • @ItsHypixel
      @ItsHypixel 7 місяців тому

      ​@@panagiotischaralampopoulos7152lol you're so funny

    • @ntinosharalampo6078
      @ntinosharalampo6078 7 місяців тому

      @@ItsHypixel maybe i am funny ...but consider seriously if you are another victim of this ...running hype from the running companies....which serves you another model of the same shoe ...in an excessive price ...every 8 months because the competition orders so!!!!!!!!
      the drug companies ...do the same......they always serve which is slightly different from the last version....and they pay doctors to ...persuade us that the new version is a miracle!!!!!!!
      so. we are now in a state that evryone who is running once o month..to look to buy a 200 euro shoe and consider his self as a runner!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • @eriktred
    @eriktred 3 роки тому

    Great initial review @kofuzi