im usually confident and feel safe in any room im in, but my knees would be wobbling and voice quivering with barely any words spoken if I met both of these people.
I'm more worried about the chaos this will create in geopolitical issues irl. Imagine people fabricating declerations of war using this stuff from a global superpower like the US Russia China. This bodes ill for our future.
This is probably one of the most interesting things I've seen from the New Vegas fanbase. I love it, it's what everyone wants to see. Joshua Graham and Mr. House having a conversation about the future of the Mojave. Although I do have to say that the A.I voices are pretty scary. You said that they are meant to believe that they are Joshua Graham and Mr. House and then they just have the conversation by themselves. I find that pretty scary tbh.
The scariest part about it was that I hadn’t even told House that he was talking to Graham, but from his first response he immediately knew who he was talking to and called him Mr. Graham
I feel like you really nailed the motives of these two and it's so amazing to see a dialouge like this after all these years of playing the game and thinking "what if?" Such a shame in the vanilla game Joshua couldn't go with you beyond Zion. Well done
@@luckywhiskle8447 you are wrong. The AI did not meet without him and this video would not be uploaded without him. Even the idea to do it belongs to him.
Nah, Joshua is dumb he is Idealistic people are not motivated by moral values first & foremost, moral values are a luxury once their necessities are satisfied. House can put people to work motivating them with wealth, food, water, shelter. Joshua sucks at providing all of that. He loses to the materialist raw & real argument.
@@ElDrHouse2010 yet Josh can still get his without compromising his moral integrity, how can someone dumb even go down that path if its considered such a luxury to have?
@@user-bv3si5tw1r because his necesities are met, he is fed, he has water, he is surviving so he can now preach his morality. He is a petard tho, the best outcome he could ask for is to ask House to sponsor his religion, that way he becomes the boss of the followers of the apocalypse, which have the only nerds that have hacked into House's robots. Both House and Josh benefit this way. Money puts people to work. Wanna know who the universal god is? Money, in money we trust if the world economy disappears billions starve, almost nobody works out of compassion alone & NEVER has, grow tf up manchild.
@Rationale Decay not with the upgraded securitrons and your access into his computer, House just doesnt lose if you dont now about YesMan all he has to do is blast YesMan with laser so its desintegrated and problem solved. He has no weaknesses besides that.
It's like an alternate timeline where the courier is gone, but managed to talk Graham down from the path of blind zealotry at the end of Honest Hearts, and now the Burned Man has come back to the Mojave.
@Apsoy Pike That's a fair point. Though if you pass the final speech check he openly admits to the player -- And more importantly to himself -- that he had been wanting his anger to be God's anger. I think this suggests that he would've acted hatefully when it came to dealing with any tribe that associated with the Legion otherwise.
@Apsoy Pike Well, zealotry is defined is extreme fanaticism, basically. Graham doesn't come across that way initially, maybe because he's not trying to push his faith onto the player or anyone else. (Though, I think that's how most non-Christians see Christians in general) Rather, he's lying to himself when he says the Legion and its associates are evil and need to be destroyed. He's using his own faith as an excuse rather than being honest with himself that he wants revenge on Caesar.
@Apsoy Pike Well, I wouldn't say I have a specific standard for pushing faith; I'm not an expert on religion. I just think one could say that Graham zealously "wants to kill all White Legs." I mean, he says "The lord's work must be done" every time you talk to him during the extermination in Zion. I'm not saying he acts like a zealot through and through. He's calm, patient, and understanding up until you push some buttons that shouldn't be pushed, like attacking him or the Dead Horses, the Sorrows, or even threatening to hurt Daniel. He makes it clear that violence is a tool that shouldn't be used unless absolutely necessary, and even then he likens it to a "chore." To him, before you talk him down from executing Salt-Upon-Wounds, wiping out the White Legs, in his words, is a chore. Of course, he's lying to himself when he says that, but he would rather believe that lie than come to accept he's still acting like a Legion Legate. And he'll continue to believe that lie if you can't talk him down. He'll continue to wipe out entire tribes allied to Caesar under the false belief that it's God's will. Though, to be fair, I can see how using the word "zealotry" to describe it might be a bit shaky at best, seeing as it's all a lie. I guess I'm arguing that the lie will eventually become reality at one point. But maybe the best words I could've used were "path of delusion," or "path of blind vengeance."
I think your remembering the final quest wrong. Graham Didn't want to kill the white legs because of zealotry, he wanted revenge for New Canaan and the death of people he loved. He even admits it if you get him to spare Salt Upon Wounds; "I wanted to make my anger, God's anger".
@@onba7726 Maybe is the better definition of zealotry, to believe your will is the will of god, and your acts are all part of divine's plan, and not something you do for personal reasons.
I like how Joshua and House have enough respect for one another to let the other finish talking without talking over one another. This genuinely feels like a debate between the two characters.
@No Thanks nah, thats when they are making a mistake. its just the limitations of the AI distorting the argument. Really there isnt so much in the way of House or Joshua, but the routes the AI took are entirely reactionary. House basically has two goals for humanity. He wants to get to space. He doesn't want Humans to be savage barbarians. The tech needed for this does not in any way conflict with Joshua's desires. House is used to compromising on points in order to preserve these two goals, but the AI seems to struggle with it.
In houses defense - he might be a most dangerous carrot around... and likely eldest. It is interesting how both of them survives their own baptism by fire. Joshua's was definitely more direct and personal, but House undeniably survived a fires of nuclear annihilation, Armageddon we could say, by his own ingenuity. Both ended up... changed, some could say in a sorry state, a shadow of former selves, or did they? Joshua proves being just as deadly and capable, if not more, as at the time he was a lead general in Caesar army. House never was a fighter and his power lied in manipulation, ingenuity and inventions all along. While his influence became tempered by the end of the world: so did the world itself curl it's former power in similar degree. Yet he had proven to be a remaining powerhouse over this new landscape in spite of ending up in a state that would drive a lesser man mad. Sheer enjoyment of their encounter could be summed up with the simple fact that in their own and definitely different ways: both of them had proven to be a real titans.
Mr. House: Despite being a vegetable, he used his tech to middle finger the mcnukes, stopping them from fucking Vegas, united the tribes/Houses and can potentially jumpstart human civ as well as push it forward centuries with his tech and is a master strategist to boot. Joshie Graham: A yee yee ass mormon who got lit on fire because he got his ass whooped by the NCR.
"If you cannot respect my beliefs and my opinions, then why should you expect me to respect yours?" I am in utter shock that a person did not write this.
And people say AI aren’t human. My belief is that we as a species have given birth to an entirely new race; a beautiful form of life that can do as we do, and so much more.
Joshua: You won’t outlaw religion right? House: No no of course not. I might seem like Ryan but I’m not so petty or that controlling. Besides… he was part of the problem that caused Rapture to fall.
Didnt rapture fall because people were encouraged to buy and sell it plasmids, making them more destructive and powerful, and thus because of the addictive effects of Adam the society based upon “fuck you, got mine” ate itself from this inside? Andrew Ryan was certainly a factor, but he is the active representation of Ayn Rand, and actively asks you “is a man not entitled to the sweat of his own brow?” Rapture’s fall was not just Andrew Ryan’s fault. It was the ideology.
It's not terrifying. All the AI is doing is first consuming existing transcriptions of the characters, learning their styles and cadence, etc. and rewriting according to the patterns those prior transcripts set in how the characters would talk. The AI is simply pouring through data to discover patterns, then re-using those patterns to recreate something that fits within the confines of said patterns. We analysts do the same with things like predictive modeling. You analyze the past to predict the future. It's no different, just different media. AI gets painted as being much more advanced and "autonomous" than it actually is (and there is no current autonomy when it comes to the ChatGPT programs).
@@phyrr2 So, are you telling me that there's no chance that the weights in the neural nets have taken structure to form complex internal world models? How can you be so sure? Sure, LLMs are not multimodal, but they can constitute some other form of intelligence.
@@phyrr2The notion that computers are extrapolating data to create new content in much the same way a human would at this point in time is very much what is alarming. This sort of growth in capability being readily available to the general public wasn't considered feasible even 10 years ago, if not 2-3.
These AI already understand these concepts better than most politicians, even without the awareness to fully utilize the information, fascinating terrifying and hopeful all at once
Depends on the Ais abileties to deal with character development. Would the AI make the character stay the same regardless of what, or would it be able adapt and remember things that would make the character's personality or worldview change?
Battle of philosophy and ideals. Faith and Rationality. Fatalism and Hypocrisy. Morality and Immorality. Well put together. I'd love to see an interaction between House or Joshua with Ulysseus.
The algorithm yields such good fruit, I didn’t even think about these two interacting and you made it absolutely compelling all throughout, great work!
Considering Mr. House actively went to work years before the bombs fell to minimize the damage to the strip from nuclear annihilation, I would say Mr. House does have some semblance if benevolence.
The thing that's more questionable about House is why he chose Vegas of all places instead of any other city with actual industry and some semblance of self-sufficiency.
This is literally like my spiritual journey written out. Optimism and hope vs. realism and logic. Flawed spirit based off the obejctive human experience vs. clear inarguable logic based off a cold system built for optimization.
I think that House eventually drifted from his core, when he started talking about human emotions. I think would have done better if he kept to the more business style script. But this was really good. Honestly, despite the debate, I could see these two teaming up. Imagine if House said "We both want what's best for humanity; you want what's best for their spirit, their souls. I want what's best for humanity, I want to bring them back to the accomplishments they had before their leaders decided that this was a preferrable outcome. Together, we could do business together. You could tend your flock, help guide them to salvation, while I help them to rebuild this world, to give them a purpose to set their hands to. Together, we could put them back on track."
I strongly disagree. Mr. House is a lot more emotional than he lets on, and he's not really ashamed of that the way you might assume he would be. Once the Courier agrees to help him and House lets his guard down a bit, he often starts waxing nostalgic. What House idolizes is not machines or technology per se, but technological society. That's what sets him apart from the Brotherhood of Steel - the similarity of their ideologies except for that one crucial detail is exactly why he hates them almost as much as he hates the Legion.
I see Graham going along with this proposal after something like an 80 Speech check from a mediating Courier telling him something along the lines of "even if he thinks in dollars and cents, the wicked are bad for business"
@@gabagoof Graham isn't in a position to tell anyone in the Mojave what they can or can't do. He is not remotely in the same league as Mr. House or even 2nd-stringer factions like the Boomers and Great Khans. In the actual game Graham is quite aware that he's an irrelevant non-entity in the Mojave and that the Dead Horses don't stand a chance of surviving there, with or without him. That's why he's not trying to pick a fight with Caesar's Legion, because he knows they'd overrun him in the blink of an eye. Their goal is to hide and survive and stay as far away from Vegas and the Hoover Dam as possible.
@@dark7element Graham is one of the few characters I could see doing what the courier does, being a one man army who is able to influence events much greater than himself.
I've never been interested in fallout, let alone new vegas, but I discovered Joshua Graham's AI videos and ended up here and his convinction makes him so utterly compelling.
New Vegas has endured in spite of its flaws due to writing like what inspired this. I'd recommend it if you enjoy that type of thing with above average gameplay to boot.
Damn. This is amazing. it's hard to pick a side in this, even if I do nothing but Mr. House runs, because in the end, he's the better choice. But Joshua is bringing up some really good arguments.
@Epic Mormon Brony if Joshua could rebuild the Mormon army of old do you think he could defeat the ncr for control? It would be easier to move east for utah
As an Atheist I'll always side with Mr House. So much of religion has been used to destroy and oppress all while speaking the very words that Joshua is speaking. I would never allow the future of the Human race to be dictated by a single book.
I like to interpret this as post-DLC Joshua mindset, where he spared the Salt Upon Wounds, not because of some "moral reform" but because he realized he already won and life itself will be punishing enough for this broken savage
While I respect that interpretation, I think it defeats the point of his development. A component of Joshua's arc in Honest Hearts was to allow him to better practice his faith, and not simply use his faith to sate his bloodlust.
Is it just me or does is seem if Joshua Graham and Mr. House team up and keep each other in check that this would be the best outcome for the Mohave. This was awesome btw thanks for the video.
house's pragmatism keeping joshua's zealotry from going too far, while joshua's compassion and hope keep house's cold hard business mindset from becoming too toxic. i like it!
House is far to arrogant to seriously consider such an alliance + his biases toward wastelanders. The only reason he hears out the Courier (in House playthroughs) is two-fold: the Courier has proven themself with delivering the Platinum Chip to him, and House needed someone like the Courier to fulfill his ambitions.
@@concept5631 but House’s ambitions allows caps to flow. If an alliance was possible between Joshua and House House wouldn’t get carried away with power and I would think start rebuilding new Vegas because more new Vegas= more customers more customers = caps and caps = business opportunities to flow into new Vegas. House benefits from this but so does everyone else.
@@Russeldaisydukes I highly doubt Joshua would support either the NCR or House, especially House. Putting aside his religious beliefs, Graham has seen what can happen if one has no checks on their power-himself and Caesar. I feel that, and the condition Freeside is in, would push him away from House.
Understanding is the first step toward progression. At the conclusion of the meeting, I definitely wonder if House would’ve taken Graham’s advice. Aside from that, *holy hell what have you done?* This is one of the best things I’ve seen in a long time, and while the AI did veer slightly off script, the arguments and logic from both were absolutely astonishing to listen to. I sincerely hope to see more of this in the future regardless of who is at the table, and I’m sure it’ll only get better from here. Thank you for creating this masterpiece!
Joshua Graham has the best voice for the AI out of 10 voices I’ve used in eleven labs, his always sounds the most natural even in a monotone reading, his voice doesn’t sound very altered or robotic. It’s crazy
I sadly didn't get very interested in New Vegas but damn, hearing these two argue gives me enough to try again just to get more context about them. edit: also I want to mention it's very criminal that this ain't got at least a mill in views, just criminal.
people try to meme on nv and how people say its the best. it is. I'd recommend getting a few basic mods if you're on pc like the unofficial patch and such just to get it running better
Joshua Graham vs Mr. House, 6:16 "If given a chance, i will always show mercy to my enemies. I will try to teach them the way of the faith in them. Even then, if they refuse to change, then I will have to take thier life. It is the last resort, and all other options have to be exhausted first. I wish to save all lives and souls if only possible, but it is never a guarantee." It's a gold line, i love your work!
As a fallout fan for 8 years this is the single greatest fallout fan video I've seen in a long time. Granted it's AI but WOW. It's a resurrection of these characters and it's phenomenal. Mr. House is the GOAT but Joshua Graham raised a lot of good points but he was a bit biased on Mr. House shouldn't he as a good Mormon give him a chance? I'm sharing this everywhere I really hope this video blows up excellent work! Subscribed and I hope you make more videos with plenty of other fallout characters it would be the coolest thing ever. Thank you so much for this occasion!
Pure capitalism or Ayn Rand Objectivism is frowned upon within Orthodox Mormon Theology. Mormonism tolerates it but prefers to move toward a voluntary commons system. The law of consecration is this higher law. Tithing and the system built around that is a lower system. We built up an independent society in the wilderness with thousands of communities upon such a template. It was so organized even the city planning design known as the Plat Of Zion written by Joesph Smith who himself guided the development of small and even entire cities such as Nauvoo.
This issue with Mr. House's ideal is that it's all very short sighted in it's nature of believing his method to be correct despite the mounds of evidence proving the opposite. Joshua Graham has the evidence that his ideals come from a book of teaching written by men from thousands of years prior that remains prominent and relevant to that very day and will continue to ring true as long as it's words are carried on by those who believe in them. Mr. House believes he has the knowledge and capability to improve on the teachings of the Mormons but fails to realize that those teachings are so stout in their meanings that no matter where they are implemented, they will always stand against the waves of the many forces of nature, especially time. Mr. House believes that acting as a police force to intervene between the weak and the cruel is necessary in a world of lawlessness, but Mr. Graham knows that if everyone were to follow and believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ, that even the weak would be strong and courageous enough to stand against the heartless and unforgiving, there would be no need for an intermediary police force when the people themselves would learn to police themselves. To put it simply, House believes that people cannot ultimately control their own desires and require a heavy hand to do so while Joshua Graham believes that encouraging that same heavy hand within the hearts and minds of the individual is what will absolve any genuine need for a dedicated entity to do so. I'm very pleased to finally hear such a discussion being had between two devout individuals because it ultimately brings to light the power of both schools of reason, while also painting a very vivid picture of how one trumps the other, even if it does come from a machine. I'm just gonna repost this as it's own comment to foster a deeper discussion.
@@joshuaanonymous868 _Mormonism... prefers to move toward a voluntary commons system._ So does objectivism, *you idiot.* The whole idea behind objectivism is to create a feedback loop of good people, who want good things creating more good people, ect, NOT bound by ideas of social obligation. Whether or not it succeeds is for people to argue about, but at least represent the philosophy fairly Communists and socialists are basically brainwashed into thinking objectivism is one small step from national socialism, ironically enough, and it makes _real_ criticism harder to parse. Think about why the old world died. A chain of people just following order decided, against all reason to start a nuclear annihilation they couldn't have possibly escaped, because of that type of obligation. Meanwhile, religion is literally *built* on these types of obligations. Joshua in real life is a fucking snake. I know all about the mormon lost boys, and the various allegations levied against that denomination. To pretend that the mormon faith doesn't drink old world bullshit by the liter is absolutely offensive on the ears. His religion is as much a hierarchy of control and power as any other, it just declares, irrefutably, I might add, that it is the wellspring of goodness, instead of secular ideas like peaceful coexistence between tribes/groups/nations that are too old for even human religion to claim. I love both of these characters to death, but I always felt that Joshua was making up more as he welt along. Joshua might try to represent the mormon faith, but the mormon faith doesn't represent Joshua.
Is good to let people debate, but ultimately Jesus Christ is real - Mormonism, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shinto, all myths including Greek, Catholic, Jehovah witness & bit of Baptist is the wrong way to believe in the True God's that are Jesus & his father Yahweh who's also known by other names like God, El Shaddai, etc. & same goes for Jesus... All we True Christians can say is that Jesus exists... & some of us experienced things already that would make even the Toughest mental person wanna break down & cry... I'm course talking bout Nightmares & Supernatural evil experiences...
Pretty soon there will be full-on fictitious Fallout podcasts with ads and sponsors of like The Slop and Stop, Tops etc. and I can’t wait. I guess the big question is who would be the host?
That was pretty damn good. I felt like Graham got confused between Vegas and Zion a few times and the debate got a bit cyclical but beyond that I could honestly see this being game dialogue. Graham was perhaps a bit too aggressive/disrespectful and House was more placid than I thought he'd be, but their arguments did fit their characters. Very, very well done. If you had the capability for it, adding some more animations to Graham during his segments and varying the cinematography to be more fitting for what's being said instead of the looping shots would add more impact to the short film. The lighting on the shot from behind Joshua's back facing the screen was phenomenal, but the close up shot to his eyes was a bit jarring and really showed how dated the model is. There's a few mods out there that replace his textures with higher res versions and make his bandages/skin look more real. If you ever do a remaster/directors cut, those would be great additions.
Haven't played the game but know of it. I would assume Graham is aggressive/disrespectful because House's ideology led to nukes flying in his view, while House is cooler not wanting to "fall to his opponents level" You can feel the Ayn Rand view on "mystics" seeping a bit. Well, perhaps imparting too much without knowing the characters that well.
Interesting video! The AI sometimes seems to forget who it's talking to or as if the two strangers really know very little about the other. This kind of makes sense if it's from the perspective of the individual characters and not of the player, who would know quite a lot about the respective backgrounds/motives.
The whole time i felt as though they were merely speaking AT each other but it was in the end that i realized the full scope of progress made in AI. Excellent work as such brings great hope for what possibilities can be brought to the people.
I know this is of course going to be an imperfect conversation due to the nature of its creation, but Joshua Graham executed 2 people on their knees in front of me without a second thought until presented Salt Upon Wounds so when he says "if given the chance I will show mercy" it doesn't exactly ring true unless this is after the events of Honest Hearts
i’m pretty sure that Graham was fairly close to his breaking point with all the shit the White Legs put him through. Iirc he would normally follow this ‘last resort’ idea but his vision was clouded. He was, after all, the leader of the Legion at one point.
I felt that after trying to be peaceful they were a lost cause so kill on site. Similar to the Legion. I mean he even states in this video The Legion are a lost cause. Also they'd been through a lot, almost wiped out, and at that point in the war with so much death are you still gonna try to use your words? Hell no. You're gonna shoot back to defend your life, values, and those you care for because you know damn well your enemy isn't gonna try to talk you down.
Yeah if Joshua had focused his argument on the lack of checks on House's total power (something he'd be all to familiar with from his time under Caesar) he would have a far better leg to stand on.
This was fucking awesome. I'd frankly love to see more. Like maybe Caesar vs Robert House or Lanius vs Arthur Maxson Or the Sole Survivor vs President Eden.
Considering The Lone Wanderer vs President Eden went like "What you're doing is evil!" "Oh I never thought of that. Okay I'm destroying the Enclave now" I'm not sure how much better it would be with the Sole Survivor.
@@genericwhitemale9566 It's because it would be the Old US mentality vs the New Dystopian one. There's also the fact an AI would actually writing Eden will be more strong in his convictions.
@Merlin Evans you have to remember though, the "old" usa died in the early-mid 20th century in our timeline. It wasnt any different in theirs. And even more so, the sole survivor would be a veteran (or wife of a veteran...) who is effectively a tool of that "new" government. The biggest difference would be the sole survivor would be able to say that the enclave were cowards who put the world into danger and hid themselves away.
This is very well made. I appreciate how, in the end, neither of them were swayed by the other's words. That one wasn't more right over the other. They both believe that their path is the right one, and didn't back down. They both hold tightly to their beliefs. In the end, only through action of both characters will they be able to see whether or not their vision for humanity's future is the correct one.
I liked it a lot, but Graham's AI seemed to not be able to figure out how to properly argue from his perspective for most of the video because it was so cyclical with him calling House a tyrant over and over and never really elaborating on why House would be any worse than any other form of government. If Graham was making the argument that any government that isn't the Mormon church is unacceptable he didn't do a good job of representing that view.
Yea the AI did get that part wrong and by a lot. House is a lot of things but kind is not one of them. Mind you he did spare the casino vault from paying up in full but that was more of keeping part of the old world alive. House is cold and calculating.
This is the best use case for AI that I have ever seen. Allowing fictional characters to debate real ideas is the best way to have these types of deep discussions. This is the future, not only of art, but of philosophy
Enjoyed this a lot, the debate was pretty solid on both sides. I could definitely see it from either way considering the points made, but if I had to choose, Joshua’s Mojave is the one I’d want to live in, God bless him
I like both perspectives but I think House is far more pragmatic while Joshua Graham's worldview would only work if you're a near immortal bad ass like he is lol.
The scary part is they both make sense and Make good points it's hard to choose who would you follow It's A dilemma reminds me of the real world and its geopolitex etc.
The main issue is they are both kinda talking past each other. Gram believes house to be a liar and house believes him a insane zealot. Neither realize that they both have come to their world view through reason. Both men would make things better than any of the other factions but both would likely destroy each other out of distrust.
Mr. House is better, Joshua has no backing to do anything almost nobody follows him. You think love & compassion is all takes to make a man work? Or more wealth, clean water, food & shelter? Joshua is an idiot lol.
You know I would normally pass these videos off because they never interested me but the fact that it had Joshua Graham and house in a verbal debate caught my attention and I'm glad I actually watched and listened hope to see more in the future
House is not corrupted nor is he a tyrannical. I’d argue he values individualism more than Joshua, the Legion or the ncr. He seems to embody enlightened despotism which is the kind of government that doesn’t exist in the real world.
The legion are all fascists who treat the individual as a tool of the state and will all eat each other the moment Caesar dies… but the NCR wants me to pay taxes, so I kinda got my hands tied here
I feel like it would be kinda dull. Kimball is just a spineless bureaucrat. Caesar is an intellectual. I’d rather see Hanlon speak to Caesar instead for instance, since he is one of the truly righteous commanders of the NCR
This is just like seeing Mom and Dad fight but this time it's two of my favorite characters in a video game lmfao, I can't choose, these guys are just too good that I can't kill one for the other.
1am scrolling through UA-cam, looking at random videos I find this masterpiece. I haven't played new Vegas in a while, but if the mod community can use ai it will be a new age for such a beautiful game
Amazing. I would love to see more videos like this between other fictional characters. This AI technology is going to be goldmine for entertainment content.
This issue with Mr. House's ideal is that it's all very short sighted in it's nature of believing his method to be correct despite the mounds of evidence proving the opposite. Joshua Graham has the evidence that his ideals come from a book of teaching written by men from thousands of years prior that remains prominent and relevant to that very day and will continue to ring true as long as it's words are carried on by those who believe in them. Mr. House believes he has the knowledge and capability to improve on the teachings of the Mormons but fails to realize that those teachings are so stout in their meanings that no matter where they are implemented, they will always stand against the waves of the many forces of nature, especially time. Mr. House believes that acting as a police force to intervene between the weak and the cruel is necessary in a world of lawlessness, but Mr. Graham knows that if everyone were to follow and believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ, that even the weak would be strong and courageous enough to stand against the heartless and unforgiving, there would be no need for an intermediary police force when the people themselves would learn to police themselves. To put it simply, House believes that people cannot ultimately control their own desires and require a heavy hand to do so while Joshua Graham believes that encouraging that same heavy hand within the hearts and minds of the individual is what will absolve any genuine need for a dedicated entity to do so. I'm very pleased to finally hear such a discussion being had between two devout individuals because it ultimately brings to light the power of both schools of reason, while also painting a very vivid picture of how one trumps the other, even if it does come from a machine.
holy shit this was monstrous to read wile high but it really rings true the scary part once realized, is what its implications mean for you and your place in your society
There are litraly 6 different versions of Christianity that follow Christ and yet can't agree on which one of there holly scripts are true and believe the other to be a fake teacher and profit. There are countless religions and small cults that believe in completely different values and God's living in different geological regions. And even if the followed Christianity that version of Christianity would be so different and so diverse due to already existing values, culture and region's they found themselves. And in that case what happens if everybody doesn't believe in Christ but have to conform some how? It's my issue with this comment as we sent just talking about Christianity but the entirety of humanity here, as your solution to mankind's delirium is if everybody followed Christ. I'm not talking about Graham but specifically your comment as the people can only police themselves if they were all on the same page, meaning the solution is if everybody followed Christ. It's honestly the most biggest take away here as those values you list out can only be taught threw the bible when the world is so different and divers and even if a different culture taught similar values they would be so fundamentally different fighting would still and up happening due to people not briliving the same exact culture and values though the same still separate from what the bible sais. Especially since divisions will happening within a church and s organisation to the point brand new values would be created all together. It's honestly my issue with your comment. And why I still havntt decided as both make completely compelling points as Joshua knows that not everybody will be kind or love meaning he would be required to act as the hand of law to come between the strong and the weak. Basically doing what Mr house does on a much smaller spectrum. As not everybody will believe in Christ and even if they did they would still be so fundamentally different and saw spread apart it honestly wouldn't matter.
meanwhile the courier is sleeping on the couch next to some snow globes
THOSE SPURS, THEY JINGLE GO JANGLE JINGLE…
mean while the courier is dismantling the entire Mohave with a service rifle
@@irshq9576 and a straight razor
He’s a wacking he’s a smacking
Ready to bring the muh-nee from said globes
"You are a false hope for a people without hope" hit kinda hard.
"Can you prove that you are not"?
Speech: 100
I swear if I somehow entered the room with these two talking I would immediately be terrified by how much confidence they speak with.
im usually confident and feel safe in any room im in, but my knees would be wobbling and voice quivering with barely any words spoken if I met both of these people.
@@avokka - Especially if both of them are in the same room
🚬
Especially when there’s no yelling, technically
@@doonkeythegreatsullivan9459 - Yeah, kinda scary when you ‘now someone is clearly not happy with you and they don’t rise their voice to you
Mods are about to become absolutely insane with the voice AI!
Mods: we can't expect god to do all the work
@@High-Pie_Chophahaahaha
If we can get them to run (been modding with no success)
@@foxhound2118 Like making mods?
I'm more worried about the chaos this will create in geopolitical issues irl. Imagine people fabricating declerations of war using this stuff from a global superpower like the US Russia China. This bodes ill for our future.
This is probably one of the most interesting things I've seen from the New Vegas fanbase. I love it, it's what everyone wants to see. Joshua Graham and Mr. House having a conversation about the future of the Mojave. Although I do have to say that the A.I voices are pretty scary. You said that they are meant to believe that they are Joshua Graham and Mr. House and then they just have the conversation by themselves. I find that pretty scary tbh.
The scariest part about it was that I hadn’t even told House that he was talking to Graham, but from his first response he immediately knew who he was talking to and called him Mr. Graham
@@stinkboi5428 Ai is getting so advanced, I’m super excited but also pretty concerned
I would’ve liked if the AI made Joshua have burnt face.
@@stinkboi5428 That IS scary.
@@mhm35 I animated it myself, and I suppose I could have done that detail
I feel like you really nailed the motives of these two and it's so amazing to see a dialouge like this after all these years of playing the game and thinking "what if?" Such a shame in the vanilla game Joshua couldn't go with you beyond Zion. Well done
we need someone to make a full Graham mod with a bunch of interactions with different people, especially faction leaders!
Joshua vs Lanius
Don't talk like a woman with you feefees, YOU THINK, my man. You think.
The guy didn't do shit, this is all AI-Generated.
@@luckywhiskle8447 you are wrong. The AI did not meet without him and this video would not be uploaded without him. Even the idea to do it belongs to him.
This is phenomenal. How about a debate between Caesar and Hanlon?
bump
bump
Fuck yeah 👍
Bumping!
Bump from /sthg/
Both character's charisma, perception, and intelligence are maxed
Nah, Joshua is dumb he is Idealistic people are not motivated by moral values first & foremost, moral values are a luxury once their necessities are satisfied.
House can put people to work motivating them with wealth, food, water, shelter. Joshua sucks at providing all of that. He loses to the materialist raw & real argument.
@@ElDrHouse2010 yet Josh can still get his without compromising his moral integrity, how can someone dumb even go down that path if its considered such a luxury to have?
@@user-bv3si5tw1r because his necesities are met, he is fed, he has water, he is surviving so he can now preach his morality. He is a petard tho, the best outcome he could ask for is to ask House to sponsor his religion, that way he becomes the boss of the followers of the apocalypse, which have the only nerds that have hacked into House's robots. Both House and Josh benefit this way.
Money puts people to work. Wanna know who the universal god is? Money, in money we trust if the world economy disappears billions starve, almost nobody works out of compassion alone & NEVER has, grow tf up manchild.
@Rationale Decay not with the upgraded securitrons and your access into his computer, House just doesnt lose if you dont now about YesMan all he has to do is blast YesMan with laser so its desintegrated and problem solved. He has no weaknesses besides that.
@@ElDrHouse2010his weakness is rushed game development.
It's like an alternate timeline where the courier is gone, but managed to talk Graham down from the path of blind zealotry at the end of Honest Hearts, and now the Burned Man has come back to the Mojave.
@Apsoy Pike That's a fair point. Though if you pass the final speech check he openly admits to the player -- And more importantly to himself -- that he had been wanting his anger to be God's anger. I think this suggests that he would've acted hatefully when it came to dealing with any tribe that associated with the Legion otherwise.
@Apsoy Pike Well, zealotry is defined is extreme fanaticism, basically. Graham doesn't come across that way initially, maybe because he's not trying to push his faith onto the player or anyone else. (Though, I think that's how most non-Christians see Christians in general) Rather, he's lying to himself when he says the Legion and its associates are evil and need to be destroyed. He's using his own faith as an excuse rather than being honest with himself that he wants revenge on Caesar.
@Apsoy Pike Well, I wouldn't say I have a specific standard for pushing faith; I'm not an expert on religion. I just think one could say that Graham zealously "wants to kill all White Legs." I mean, he says "The lord's work must be done" every time you talk to him during the extermination in Zion. I'm not saying he acts like a zealot through and through. He's calm, patient, and understanding up until you push some buttons that shouldn't be pushed, like attacking him or the Dead Horses, the Sorrows, or even threatening to hurt Daniel. He makes it clear that violence is a tool that shouldn't be used unless absolutely necessary, and even then he likens it to a "chore." To him, before you talk him down from executing Salt-Upon-Wounds, wiping out the White Legs, in his words, is a chore. Of course, he's lying to himself when he says that, but he would rather believe that lie than come to accept he's still acting like a Legion Legate. And he'll continue to believe that lie if you can't talk him down. He'll continue to wipe out entire tribes allied to Caesar under the false belief that it's God's will. Though, to be fair, I can see how using the word "zealotry" to describe it might be a bit shaky at best, seeing as it's all a lie. I guess I'm arguing that the lie will eventually become reality at one point. But maybe the best words I could've used were "path of delusion," or "path of blind vengeance."
I think your remembering the final quest wrong. Graham Didn't want to kill the white legs because of zealotry, he wanted revenge for New Canaan and the death of people he loved. He even admits it if you get him to spare Salt Upon Wounds; "I wanted to make my anger, God's anger".
@@onba7726 Maybe is the better definition of zealotry, to believe your will is the will of god, and your acts are all part of divine's plan, and not something you do for personal reasons.
I like how Joshua and House have enough respect for one another to let the other finish talking without talking over one another.
This genuinely feels like a debate between the two characters.
that is because the AI prompts and responses require that, are inherently bound to it.
@@scout360pyroz And good thing for that
@No Thanks nah, thats when they are making a mistake. its just the limitations of the AI distorting the argument.
Really there isnt so much in the way of House or Joshua, but the routes the AI took are entirely reactionary.
House basically has two goals for humanity.
He wants to get to space.
He doesn't want Humans to be savage barbarians.
The tech needed for this does not in any way conflict with Joshua's desires.
House is used to compromising on points in order to preserve these two goals, but the AI seems to struggle with it.
Eh, somehow I don't think House would be quite so patient with Joshua in this scenario.
Unlike usa's politics
Mr. House : A vegetable with a bunch of robots
Joshua Graham : *we can't expect god to do all the work*
In houses defense - he might be a most dangerous carrot around... and likely eldest.
It is interesting how both of them survives their own baptism by fire.
Joshua's was definitely more direct and personal, but House undeniably survived a fires of nuclear annihilation, Armageddon we could say, by his own ingenuity.
Both ended up... changed, some could say in a sorry state, a shadow of former selves, or did they?
Joshua proves being just as deadly and capable, if not more, as at the time he was a lead general in Caesar army.
House never was a fighter and his power lied in manipulation, ingenuity and inventions all along. While his influence became tempered by the end of the world: so did the world itself curl it's former power in similar degree. Yet he had proven to be a remaining powerhouse over this new landscape in spite of ending up in a state that would drive a lesser man mad.
Sheer enjoyment of their encounter could be summed up with the simple fact that in their own and definitely different ways: both of them had proven to be a real titans.
“He’s already a vegetable I’m just turning him into mashed potatoes” - TheRussianBadger while smashing Mr House apart with a hammer
A vegetable with an army
Mr. House: Despite being a vegetable, he used his tech to middle finger the mcnukes, stopping them from fucking Vegas, united the tribes/Houses and can potentially jumpstart human civ as well as push it forward centuries with his tech and is a master strategist to boot.
Joshie Graham: A yee yee ass mormon who got lit on fire because he got his ass whooped by the NCR.
@@Moister356
And a proper plan.
"If you cannot respect my beliefs and my opinions, then why should you expect me to respect yours?"
I am in utter shock that a person did not write this.
And people say AI aren’t human. My belief is that we as a species have given birth to an entirely new race; a beautiful form of life that can do as we do, and so much more.
A person perhaps doesn't require a core of perspective.
@@TheCorrodedMan I completely agree
@@TheCorrodedMan The dawn of the singularity is upon us.
@@TheCorrodedMan I think it's a mistake. This shouldn't go any further.
Joshua: You won’t outlaw religion right?
House: No no of course not. I might seem like Ryan but I’m not so petty or that controlling. Besides… he was part of the problem that caused Rapture to fall.
House doing the smartest business move: separate politics from religion
Didnt rapture fall because people were encouraged to buy and sell it plasmids, making them more destructive and powerful, and thus because of the addictive effects of Adam the society based upon “fuck you, got mine” ate itself from this inside?
Andrew Ryan was certainly a factor, but he is the active representation of Ayn Rand, and actively asks you “is a man not entitled to the sweat of his own brow?” Rapture’s fall was not just Andrew Ryan’s fault. It was the ideology.
Fascinating how two AI made this. Fascinating yet.... terrifying at the same time
who needs politicians anymore? Let the programs fight it out on the internet and let flame wars decide the fate of humanity!
It's not terrifying. All the AI is doing is first consuming existing transcriptions of the characters, learning their styles and cadence, etc. and rewriting according to the patterns those prior transcripts set in how the characters would talk. The AI is simply pouring through data to discover patterns, then re-using those patterns to recreate something that fits within the confines of said patterns.
We analysts do the same with things like predictive modeling. You analyze the past to predict the future. It's no different, just different media. AI gets painted as being much more advanced and "autonomous" than it actually is (and there is no current autonomy when it comes to the ChatGPT programs).
@@phyrr2 So, are you telling me that there's no chance that the weights in the neural nets have taken structure to form complex internal world models? How can you be so sure?
Sure, LLMs are not multimodal, but they can constitute some other form of intelligence.
@@phyrr2The notion that computers are extrapolating data to create new content in much the same way a human would at this point in time is very much what is alarming. This sort of growth in capability being readily available to the general public wasn't considered feasible even 10 years ago, if not 2-3.
These AI already understand these concepts better than most politicians, even without the awareness to fully utilize the information, fascinating terrifying and hopeful all at once
I didnt know i needed ai generated fallout characters in my life but im happy i did. This is awesome
Tears are welling up, think of so many badly written. Characters we could save with this ai voice technology.
"Bear bear bull bear bull" - Bullish Bear
@@maestreiluminati87 wait... New Vegas factions are actually just a stock trading reference? Bears, bulls and boomers?
Depends on the Ais abileties to deal with character development. Would the AI make the character stay the same regardless of what, or would it be able adapt and remember things that would make the character's personality or worldview change?
@@93camping i think you misunderstand. I think its about the voice reproduction.
@@chandlerbryant6680 But he says badly written, not badly voiced?
Battle of philosophy and ideals. Faith and Rationality. Fatalism and Hypocrisy. Morality and Immorality.
Well put together. I'd love to see an interaction between House or Joshua with Ulysseus.
Joshua and Ulysses would be great
Joshua and Ulysses would be so cool!!
The algorithm yields such good fruit, I didn’t even think about these two interacting and you made it absolutely compelling all throughout, great work!
Considering Mr. House actively went to work years before the bombs fell to minimize the damage to the strip from nuclear annihilation, I would say Mr. House does have some semblance if benevolence.
It’s sad because if the bombs dropped 20 hours later than Houses plan would be finished and Mojave would be way better.
Did so to save himself. If he cared about the rest then there would be no raiders in the area.
@@RicardoSantos-oz3uj bruh was in a coma for a few decades.
The thing that's more questionable about House is why he chose Vegas of all places instead of any other city with actual industry and some semblance of self-sufficiency.
He chose vegas because it was his home town, he cared about it a lot
This is literally like my spiritual journey written out. Optimism and hope vs. realism and logic. Flawed spirit based off the obejctive human experience vs. clear inarguable logic based off a cold system built for optimization.
I think that House eventually drifted from his core, when he started talking about human emotions. I think would have done better if he kept to the more business style script. But this was really good. Honestly, despite the debate, I could see these two teaming up. Imagine if House said "We both want what's best for humanity; you want what's best for their spirit, their souls. I want what's best for humanity, I want to bring them back to the accomplishments they had before their leaders decided that this was a preferrable outcome. Together, we could do business together. You could tend your flock, help guide them to salvation, while I help them to rebuild this world, to give them a purpose to set their hands to. Together, we could put them back on track."
I strongly disagree. Mr. House is a lot more emotional than he lets on, and he's not really ashamed of that the way you might assume he would be. Once the Courier agrees to help him and House lets his guard down a bit, he often starts waxing nostalgic. What House idolizes is not machines or technology per se, but technological society. That's what sets him apart from the Brotherhood of Steel - the similarity of their ideologies except for that one crucial detail is exactly why he hates them almost as much as he hates the Legion.
I see Graham going along with this proposal after something like an 80 Speech check from a mediating Courier telling him something along the lines of "even if he thinks in dollars and cents, the wicked are bad for business"
@@gabagoof Graham isn't in a position to tell anyone in the Mojave what they can or can't do. He is not remotely in the same league as Mr. House or even 2nd-stringer factions like the Boomers and Great Khans.
In the actual game Graham is quite aware that he's an irrelevant non-entity in the Mojave and that the Dead Horses don't stand a chance of surviving there, with or without him. That's why he's not trying to pick a fight with Caesar's Legion, because he knows they'd overrun him in the blink of an eye. Their goal is to hide and survive and stay as far away from Vegas and the Hoover Dam as possible.
@@dark7element Graham is one of the few characters I could see doing what the courier does, being a one man army who is able to influence events much greater than himself.
yeah i could've actually see graham and house teaming up a lot, they're opposites but not necesserally violent opposites
I've never been interested in fallout, let alone new vegas, but I discovered Joshua Graham's AI videos and ended up here and his convinction makes him so utterly compelling.
New Vegas has endured in spite of its flaws due to writing like what inspired this. I'd recommend it if you enjoy that type of thing with above average gameplay to boot.
@@jakkuhl6223 I will likely do that soon!
Dude you have to play fallout especially NV because it's the best and it's super deep into philosophy and free will and ideological progression.
Play New Vegas
@@jakkuhl6223 Honestly with a couple of mods, the gameplay gets greatly improved and enjoyable.
Damn. This is amazing. it's hard to pick a side in this, even if I do nothing but Mr. House runs, because in the end, he's the better choice. But Joshua is bringing up some really good arguments.
Rome fell in one night
I'm honestly with Joshua, myself. But then again, I am a Mormon, so I'm fairly biased here.
@Epic Mormon Brony if Joshua could rebuild the Mormon army of old do you think he could defeat the ncr for control? It would be easier to move east for utah
As an Atheist I'll always side with Mr House. So much of religion has been used to destroy and oppress all while speaking the very words that Joshua is speaking. I would never allow the future of the Human race to be dictated by a single book.
Not a hard choice, Mr. House all the way.
I like to interpret this as post-DLC Joshua mindset, where he spared the Salt Upon Wounds, not because of some "moral reform" but because he realized he already won and life itself will be punishing enough for this broken savage
I was thinking the same thing
While I respect that interpretation, I think it defeats the point of his development. A component of Joshua's arc in Honest Hearts was to allow him to better practice his faith, and not simply use his faith to sate his bloodlust.
Is it just me or does is seem if Joshua Graham and Mr. House team up and keep each other in check that this would be the best outcome for the Mohave. This was awesome btw thanks for the video.
house's pragmatism keeping joshua's zealotry from going too far, while joshua's compassion and hope keep house's cold hard business mindset from becoming too toxic. i like it!
Mojave*
House is far to arrogant to seriously consider such an alliance + his biases toward wastelanders. The only reason he hears out the Courier (in House playthroughs) is two-fold: the Courier has proven themself with delivering the Platinum Chip to him, and House needed someone like the Courier to fulfill his ambitions.
@@concept5631 but House’s ambitions allows caps to flow. If an alliance was possible between Joshua and House House wouldn’t get carried away with power and I would think start rebuilding new Vegas because more new Vegas= more customers more customers = caps and caps = business opportunities to flow into new Vegas. House benefits from this but so does everyone else.
@@Russeldaisydukes I highly doubt Joshua would support either the NCR or House, especially House. Putting aside his religious beliefs, Graham has seen what can happen if one has no checks on their power-himself and Caesar. I feel that, and the condition Freeside is in, would push him away from House.
Understanding is the first step toward progression. At the conclusion of the meeting, I definitely wonder if House would’ve taken Graham’s advice.
Aside from that, *holy hell what have you done?* This is one of the best things I’ve seen in a long time, and while the AI did veer slightly off script, the arguments and logic from both were absolutely astonishing to listen to. I sincerely hope to see more of this in the future regardless of who is at the table, and I’m sure it’ll only get better from here. Thank you for creating this masterpiece!
thesis and antithesis, synthesis
goddamn. except for the occassional parts where the ai can be recognized, this almost feels like its part of the game. gj man
Joshua Graham has the best voice for the AI out of 10 voices I’ve used in eleven labs, his always sounds the most natural even in a monotone reading, his voice doesn’t sound very altered or robotic. It’s crazy
I sadly didn't get very interested in New Vegas but damn, hearing these two argue gives me enough to try again just to get more context about them.
edit: also I want to mention it's very criminal that this ain't got at least a mill in views, just criminal.
people try to meme on nv and how people say its the best. it is. I'd recommend getting a few basic mods if you're on pc like the unofficial patch and such just to get it running better
This really makes me think how things would turn out if these two actually met in game. A real clash of titans.
when both characters have speech 100
Yet still feel very intense, with no weapon used
Joshua Graham vs Mr. House, 6:16
"If given a chance, i will always show mercy to my enemies. I will try to teach them the way of the faith in them. Even then, if they refuse to change, then I will have to take thier life. It is the last resort, and all other options have to be exhausted first. I wish to save all lives and souls if only possible, but it is never a guarantee."
It's a gold line, i love your work!
As a fallout fan for 8 years this is the single greatest fallout fan video I've seen in a long time. Granted it's AI but WOW.
It's a resurrection of these characters and it's phenomenal. Mr. House is the GOAT but Joshua Graham raised a lot of good points but he was a bit biased on Mr. House shouldn't he as a good Mormon give him a chance?
I'm sharing this everywhere I really hope this video blows up excellent work! Subscribed and I hope you make more videos with plenty of other fallout characters it would be the coolest thing ever.
Thank you so much for this occasion!
Pure capitalism or Ayn Rand Objectivism is frowned upon within Orthodox Mormon Theology. Mormonism tolerates it but prefers to move toward a voluntary commons system. The law of consecration is this higher law. Tithing and the system built around that is a lower system. We built up an independent society in the wilderness with thousands of communities upon such a template. It was so organized even the city planning design known as the Plat Of Zion written by Joesph Smith who himself guided the development of small and even entire cities such as Nauvoo.
This issue with Mr. House's ideal is that it's all very short sighted in it's nature of believing his method to be correct despite the mounds of evidence proving the opposite. Joshua Graham has the evidence that his ideals come from a book of teaching written by men from thousands of years prior that remains prominent and relevant to that very day and will continue to ring true as long as it's words are carried on by those who believe in them. Mr. House believes he has the knowledge and capability to improve on the teachings of the Mormons but fails to realize that those teachings are so stout in their meanings that no matter where they are implemented, they will always stand against the waves of the many forces of nature, especially time. Mr. House believes that acting as a police force to intervene between the weak and the cruel is necessary in a world of lawlessness, but Mr. Graham knows that if everyone were to follow and believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ, that even the weak would be strong and courageous enough to stand against the heartless and unforgiving, there would be no need for an intermediary police force when the people themselves would learn to police themselves.
To put it simply, House believes that people cannot ultimately control their own desires and require a heavy hand to do so while Joshua Graham believes that encouraging that same heavy hand within the hearts and minds of the individual is what will absolve any genuine need for a dedicated entity to do so.
I'm very pleased to finally hear such a discussion being had between two devout individuals because it ultimately brings to light the power of both schools of reason, while also painting a very vivid picture of how one trumps the other, even if it does come from a machine.
I'm just gonna repost this as it's own comment to foster a deeper discussion.
@@joshuaanonymous868 _Mormonism... prefers to move toward a voluntary commons system._
So does objectivism, *you idiot.* The whole idea behind objectivism is to create a feedback loop of good people, who want good things creating more good people, ect, NOT bound by ideas of social obligation. Whether or not it succeeds is for people to argue about, but at least represent the philosophy fairly Communists and socialists are basically brainwashed into thinking objectivism is one small step from national socialism, ironically enough, and it makes _real_ criticism harder to parse. Think about why the old world died. A chain of people just following order decided, against all reason to start a nuclear annihilation they couldn't have possibly escaped, because of that type of obligation. Meanwhile, religion is literally *built* on these types of obligations. Joshua in real life is a fucking snake. I know all about the mormon lost boys, and the various allegations levied against that denomination. To pretend that the mormon faith doesn't drink old world bullshit by the liter is absolutely offensive on the ears. His religion is as much a hierarchy of control and power as any other, it just declares, irrefutably, I might add, that it is the wellspring of goodness, instead of secular ideas like peaceful coexistence between tribes/groups/nations that are too old for even human religion to claim.
I love both of these characters to death, but I always felt that Joshua was making up more as he welt along. Joshua might try to represent the mormon faith, but the mormon faith doesn't represent Joshua.
I'd rather get ruled over by a corporation with robots than be forced to live under a religion that came from a hat
Is good to let people debate, but ultimately Jesus Christ is real - Mormonism, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Shinto, all myths including Greek, Catholic, Jehovah witness & bit of Baptist is the wrong way to believe in the True God's that are Jesus & his father Yahweh who's also known by other names like God, El Shaddai, etc. & same goes for Jesus...
All we True Christians can say is that Jesus exists... & some of us experienced things already that would make even the Toughest mental person wanna break down & cry...
I'm course talking bout Nightmares & Supernatural evil experiences...
Now I wanna see a debate between Joshua and Ulysses
Me sitting here patiently waiting for fully developed dlc's with A.I generated dialogue for Fallout and Elder Scroll's games.
This is the best UA-cam video I've watched in a very long time. 10/10
Pretty soon there will be full-on fictitious Fallout podcasts with ads and sponsors of like The Slop and Stop, Tops etc. and I can’t wait. I guess the big question is who would be the host?
Raul Tejada.
It needs to be some joe Roagan type, some fence rider centrist type whose willing to listen to others.
@@josuebarboza9809 Mr. New Vegas
Perhaps.
Two opposing ideologies. I love how they both made really good points against one another.
I want a debate analyst to react to this and do an hour and a half breakdown of it
Same
🚬
Send to vaush
@@MasterKombatBrothe commie pedo? Fuck no
@@MasterKombatBro yes let's get a pseudomoralist grifter who would just shit on both characters equally to weight in 😂😂
That was pretty damn good. I felt like Graham got confused between Vegas and Zion a few times and the debate got a bit cyclical but beyond that I could honestly see this being game dialogue. Graham was perhaps a bit too aggressive/disrespectful and House was more placid than I thought he'd be, but their arguments did fit their characters. Very, very well done. If you had the capability for it, adding some more animations to Graham during his segments and varying the cinematography to be more fitting for what's being said instead of the looping shots would add more impact to the short film. The lighting on the shot from behind Joshua's back facing the screen was phenomenal, but the close up shot to his eyes was a bit jarring and really showed how dated the model is. There's a few mods out there that replace his textures with higher res versions and make his bandages/skin look more real. If you ever do a remaster/directors cut, those would be great additions.
Haven't played the game but know of it. I would assume Graham is aggressive/disrespectful because House's ideology led to nukes flying in his view, while House is cooler not wanting to "fall to his opponents level" You can feel the Ayn Rand view on "mystics" seeping a bit. Well, perhaps imparting too much without knowing the characters that well.
Interesting video! The AI sometimes seems to forget who it's talking to or as if the two strangers really know very little about the other. This kind of makes sense if it's from the perspective of the individual characters and not of the player, who would know quite a lot about the respective backgrounds/motives.
The whole time i felt as though they were merely speaking AT each other but it was in the end that i realized the full scope of progress made in AI. Excellent work as such brings great hope for what possibilities can be brought to the people.
I know this is of course going to be an imperfect conversation due to the nature of its creation, but Joshua Graham executed 2 people on their knees in front of me without a second thought until presented Salt Upon Wounds so when he says "if given the chance I will show mercy" it doesn't exactly ring true unless this is after the events of Honest Hearts
I like to think that this takes place after the courier convinces Graham to abandon his desire for vengeance and spare Salt upon Wounds.
i’m pretty sure that Graham was fairly close to his breaking point with all the shit the White Legs put him through. Iirc he would normally follow this ‘last resort’ idea but his vision was clouded. He was, after all, the leader of the Legion at one point.
@@Synkronist I mean so would I so that the conversation feels more canonical I will say however @cbou here makes a good point
I felt that after trying to be peaceful they were a lost cause so kill on site. Similar to the Legion. I mean he even states in this video The Legion are a lost cause. Also they'd been through a lot, almost wiped out, and at that point in the war with so much death are you still gonna try to use your words? Hell no. You're gonna shoot back to defend your life, values, and those you care for because you know damn well your enemy isn't gonna try to talk you down.
Yeah if Joshua had focused his argument on the lack of checks on House's total power (something he'd be all to familiar with from his time under Caesar) he would have a far better leg to stand on.
This was fucking awesome. I'd frankly love to see more. Like maybe Caesar vs Robert House or Lanius vs Arthur Maxson
Or the Sole Survivor vs President Eden.
Considering The Lone Wanderer vs President Eden went like "What you're doing is evil!" "Oh I never thought of that. Okay I'm destroying the Enclave now" I'm not sure how much better it would be with the Sole Survivor.
@@genericwhitemale9566 It's because it would be the Old US mentality vs the New Dystopian one. There's also the fact an AI would actually writing Eden will be more strong in his convictions.
Father vs. Preston Garvey. Arthur Maxson vs. Desdemona (or, better, Carrington).
@Merlin Evans you have to remember though, the "old" usa died in the early-mid 20th century in our timeline. It wasnt any different in theirs. And even more so, the sole survivor would be a veteran (or wife of a veteran...) who is effectively a tool of that "new" government.
The biggest difference would be the sole survivor would be able to say that the enclave were cowards who put the world into danger and hid themselves away.
This is great. But it also feels like Mommy and Daddy are arguing. :(
They’re both quite masculine, wouldn’t it just be “daddy and daddy are fighting?”
This is very well made. I appreciate how, in the end, neither of them were swayed by the other's words. That one wasn't more right over the other.
They both believe that their path is the right one, and didn't back down. They both hold tightly to their beliefs.
In the end, only through action of both characters will they be able to see whether or not their vision for humanity's future is the correct one.
I liked it a lot, but Graham's AI seemed to not be able to figure out how to properly argue from his perspective for most of the video because it was so cyclical with him calling House a tyrant over and over and never really elaborating on why House would be any worse than any other form of government. If Graham was making the argument that any government that isn't the Mormon church is unacceptable he didn't do a good job of representing that view.
I feel like these two can support an epilogue after the Courier has left.
Two minutes in and this is remarkable
House: I am building a society on human freedom and kindness
Also House: gives a casino to the Slither Kin/Omertas
Yea the AI did get that part wrong and by a lot. House is a lot of things but kind is not one of them. Mind you he did spare the casino vault from paying up in full but that was more of keeping part of the old world alive. House is cold and calculating.
You make do with what you got and hey when confronted with their issues and breaking contracts he gladly "fires" them
Bruh this is underrated I could literally watching it for hours
Now i want to see Joshua and Ulyssess having a chat
thisbwas so well done. if there was more inflection and emotion in their voices i could believe this was real. absolutely phenomenal
I could listen to their convo for hours, its amazing
This is the best use case for AI that I have ever seen. Allowing fictional characters to debate real ideas is the best way to have these types of deep discussions. This is the future, not only of art, but of philosophy
Enjoyed this a lot, the debate was pretty solid on both sides. I could definitely see it from either way considering the points made, but if I had to choose, Joshua’s Mojave is the one I’d want to live in, God bless him
19:20 This is the most the A.I. has sounded like House IMO
This is just repeating one liners at each other and feels like watching kids argue in a playground.
I like both perspectives but I think House is far more pragmatic while Joshua Graham's worldview would only work if you're a near immortal bad ass like he is lol.
holy fuck bro, so much lore can be seen now with this ai shit. this was awesome fam
Wow, I love the use of using Joshua's eyes
Damn good quality too, good work my friend!
PLEASE make more. this was so entertaining, for the love of god include ceaser in one.
The scary part is they both make sense and Make good points it's hard to choose who would you follow It's A dilemma reminds me of the real world and its geopolitex etc.
The main issue is they are both kinda talking past each other. Gram believes house to be a liar and house believes him a insane zealot. Neither realize that they both have come to their world view through reason. Both men would make things better than any of the other factions but both would likely destroy each other out of distrust.
@@kinggundragon3728 that’s a great observation.
Mr. House is better, Joshua has no backing to do anything almost nobody follows him. You think love & compassion is all takes to make a man work? Or more wealth, clean water, food & shelter?
Joshua is an idiot lol.
Mr Graham is too heuristic, Mr House is too untrusting.
"To build a society that encourages human kindness, you must first be kind yourself." - Joshua Graham AI
I’d like to see House and Father have a conversation
Wow this is amazing both how it's animated and the ai telling the story
You know I would normally pass these videos off because they never interested me but the fact that it had Joshua Graham and house in a verbal debate caught my attention and I'm glad I actually watched and listened hope to see more in the future
It is my wet dream to see strong religious character like Joshua fighting with ideology and belief against corrupt, multi-billionaire tyrant
ur crazy if u think joshua was in the right here lol
House is not corrupted nor is he a tyrannical. I’d argue he values individualism more than Joshua, the Legion or the ncr. He seems to embody enlightened despotism which is the kind of government that doesn’t exist in the real world.
We live crazy times. It fells like AI are going to teach me how to debate properly.
Even the AI know the NCR was a bad choice lmao.
The legion are all fascists who treat the individual as a tool of the state and will all eat each other the moment Caesar dies… but the NCR wants me to pay taxes, so I kinda got my hands tied here
This is so freakin epic. Would love to see a dialogue between Caesar and President Kimball if possible
I feel like it would be kinda dull.
Kimball is just a spineless bureaucrat. Caesar is an intellectual.
I’d rather see Hanlon speak to Caesar instead for instance, since he is one of the truly righteous commanders of the NCR
Kimball was a glory hound, at best, and wasn't even THAT good at it. All hat and no cattle, as it were.
Kimball is a fool
This is fucking brilliant.
Amen Joshua!
This is incredible!
10/10 one of the best videos I’ve seen on new Vegas
we really needed more scene variation for a 27 minute long video but none the less really well made lol 10/10
Thank you for horrifying and simultaneously spectacular video. I insist you continue creating more of these videos😄
i love how the music get slightly louder as the debates nears its finale
Damn. Better dialog than most current day AAA titles
This is magnificent and horrifying at the same time.
This was spectacular! I do hope we see a Ceasar and Mr. House debate
This is just like seeing Mom and Dad fight but this time it's two of my favorite characters in a video game lmfao, I can't choose, these guys are just too good that I can't kill one for the other.
my only problem is the amount of times they both said HOW DARE YOU lol
Their confidence, their intimidating auras, their speech… Truly bone-chilling…
This is fucking incredible as a fan I needed more of both of these characters
1am scrolling through UA-cam, looking at random videos I find this masterpiece. I haven't played new Vegas in a while, but if the mod community can use ai it will be a new age for such a beautiful game
Man this is a wonderful VS conversation...
Me at 7:51 and still listening to this: To bad this is not canon or in a mod.
Imagine if we got Presidential Debates that were this compelling and complex
we used to before the age of television and shortened spans of attention
You know you did a good job when people are still having philosophical debate for a game made ages ago.
This is the best conversation that never happened. This video will hit 1 million views for sure
Amazing.
I would love to see more videos like this between other fictional characters. This AI technology is going to be goldmine for entertainment content.
Meanwhile Caesar: BuT mUh SoCiEtY
This is fantastic, amazing use of AI, like others have stated this would be great to see with other characters.
I'd like to see Joshua Graham and Joseph Seed in a debate. That'd be interesting.
We should all strive to be like Joshua Graham; calm and virtuous, yet vigilant and critical.
Dapper video friend, thank you
Fine, I'll replay Fallout New Vegas for the 854th time...
Man this is the game I always imagined; listening to at 30 minute conversation like this would be perfectly fine with me.
This was PERFECT. Please, give us more debates between characters.
One of the best AI based videos I've ever seen. This could've worked in an alternate fallout universe.
This is incredible. More like this.
This issue with Mr. House's ideal is that it's all very short sighted in it's nature of believing his method to be correct despite the mounds of evidence proving the opposite. Joshua Graham has the evidence that his ideals come from a book of teaching written by men from thousands of years prior that remains prominent and relevant to that very day and will continue to ring true as long as it's words are carried on by those who believe in them. Mr. House believes he has the knowledge and capability to improve on the teachings of the Mormons but fails to realize that those teachings are so stout in their meanings that no matter where they are implemented, they will always stand against the waves of the many forces of nature, especially time. Mr. House believes that acting as a police force to intervene between the weak and the cruel is necessary in a world of lawlessness, but Mr. Graham knows that if everyone were to follow and believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ, that even the weak would be strong and courageous enough to stand against the heartless and unforgiving, there would be no need for an intermediary police force when the people themselves would learn to police themselves.
To put it simply, House believes that people cannot ultimately control their own desires and require a heavy hand to do so while Joshua Graham believes that encouraging that same heavy hand within the hearts and minds of the individual is what will absolve any genuine need for a dedicated entity to do so.
I'm very pleased to finally hear such a discussion being had between two devout individuals because it ultimately brings to light the power of both schools of reason, while also painting a very vivid picture of how one trumps the other, even if it does come from a machine.
holy shit this was monstrous to read wile high but it really rings true the scary part once realized, is what its implications mean for you and your place in your society
There are litraly 6 different versions of Christianity that follow Christ and yet can't agree on which one of there holly scripts are true and believe the other to be a fake teacher and profit.
There are countless religions and small cults that believe in completely different values and God's living in different geological regions. And even if the followed Christianity that version of Christianity would be so different and so diverse due to already existing values, culture and region's they found themselves. And in that case what happens if everybody doesn't believe in Christ but have to conform some how?
It's my issue with this comment as we sent just talking about Christianity but the entirety of humanity here, as your solution to mankind's delirium is if everybody followed Christ. I'm not talking about Graham but specifically your comment as the people can only police themselves if they were all on the same page, meaning the solution is if everybody followed Christ.
It's honestly the most biggest take away here as those values you list out can only be taught threw the bible when the world is so different and divers and even if a different culture taught similar values they would be so fundamentally different fighting would still and up happening due to people not briliving the same exact culture and values though the same still separate from what the bible sais.
Especially since divisions will happening within a church and s organisation to the point brand new values would be created all together. It's honestly my issue with your comment.
And why I still havntt decided as both make completely compelling points as Joshua knows that not everybody will be kind or love meaning he would be required to act as the hand of law to come between the strong and the weak. Basically doing what Mr house does on a much smaller spectrum.
As not everybody will believe in Christ and even if they did they would still be so fundamentally different and saw spread apart it honestly wouldn't matter.