Three years ago, I went for an EV test drive after my brother said i would never have an EV. I bought one and the price due to pre-reg, was roughly the same as the new EVs coming out this year. I had to scrap my home petrol station and strengthen the drawbridge, of course! Never say Never...Mr Bond.....
Interesting news Dave as you seem to explain it if I understand it correctly these batteries stuffed into an existing design will go up to 2x as far. More importantly you can have a specifically designed car with half the battery and cost and weight which now enables somewhere near to price parity and assists much more specific EV architecture. That's if I understand your report correctly exciting times ahead.
Good thinking. The importance of vastly improved specific energy and energy density is in the production of smaller, lighter cars with decent range and the reduction of 'tanks' on our roads (ev and ice). Watch this space.
The biggest problem is the charging network. It doesn't matter how fast the battery can be charged if there are no chargers that can charge at that rate. CATL BYD and other battery makers should be leading the charge (pun intended) to build more chargers. also Ice vehicles are up to 60 times more likely to catch fire while sitting parked than an EV.
China has ULTRA HIGH LONG DISTANCE AC/DV power distrubution, its world class and way ahead of anything anywhere else in the world so they can and will do Cat4 500whr and Ive seen 800whr chargers as they will work. The grid was made for it, powerloss from generating power in Tibet and delivery in the easten china is now not a dream but reality. Our grid in AU cant handle the solar going into it as it is and Ive had a street capacitor blowup (sounded like a 911 bomb blast) and now they will be charginf or over 5khr into the grid so you now spend your money on batts at home. Our 240V power grid 50hz 10AMPS single phrase. 3 phrase is 240V 30A (240x30Ah=700what hr) AC that now needs to be converted to DC. These are native Ah500/700 DC! Ones a trickle the others a floodgate!
EV's are impossible to put out. Parked ICE fires were mainly due to electrical issues and ridiculous emissions reducing hardware. There is no comparison. Statistics never lie, but liars use statistics.
Tesla has no problems at all with its charging network in the UK. I have used it many times for distant travel and it really isn’t an issue. I also see huge numbers of new installations going in from competitor networks. I agree this situation was rubbish for non-Tesla drivers but that has changed and will continue to do so
@@mrsrhardyyou have the units all messed up, though. Chargers provides Watts also written as kilowatts (kW). Your 3-phase is Volt times Ampéres to get Watts over the three phases, so 16 A gives 11 kw, 20A gives 14 kW and 25A gives 17 kW etc. The DC you mention, is expressed as Volts and Amps as well.
Another talking point is how much electricity that is used to refine petrol. Last year the UK used 2.83 billion gallons of petrol. It takes 15Kwh of electricity to refine one gallon of petrol. There are approximately 32 million private cars on the roads of the UK. If all of them where electric and 8:07 you do the sums that is 135.265 Kw of electricity per car enough to allow a low efficiency EV 3.2 miles per KWh, drive 425,000 miles a year. Just with the energy used to refine petrol. Interesting....
Where did you get 15kWh of electricity to refine 1gallon of petrol? I've seen various figures for this but none that high (typically see around 5kWh); it's still relevant to the discussion but needs to be accurate,
Stop BS suggests 25% of the grid is used to refine petrol/diesel. So, as fossil fuel production is reduced the replacement EVs will not require a new improved grid. Then, when the grid is made ‘smart’, the grid will use vehicle batteries as backup peak energy. It really is a win-win.
@@paulweston1106 maybe I should have looked further. I agree with 5kw but even taking that into account it would still amount to a lot of miles in a EV.
According to most credible sources (e.g. Argonne labs in the USA), the well to tank efficiency for petrol (pumping oil out of the ground, tanker transport to refinery, refining, transport from refinery to petrol station etc) is about 80% to 85% efficient. There is about 40kwh of energy in a gallon of petrol, so if you assume 80% efficiency, ALL of the well to tank processes use 10kwh of ENERGY. Most of this is process heat for cracking and reforming, fractional distillation etc., obtained by burning byproducts of the refining process. Only a small amount of this is electricity, used to run pumps etc. To convert the 10kwh of ENERGY used to produce a gallon of petrol into electricity to run an EV would require you to burn it in something to generate electricity. This would have an efficiency of between about 33% for a thermal power station to 58% for a closed cycle gas turbine, so you would end up with between 3.3kwh, and 5.8kwh of electricity. This is enough to run something like a Tesla model 3 for between about about 14 miles, and 24 miles. A Mazda 3 gets something like 50mpg. Your figures come from a quote by Elon Musk, which is basically just more marketing BS,, and has been widely debunked......
You can get a second hand Zoë with about 12000 miles for about £12000. Running costs are very low. It’s like a Clío without the exhaust. And this is for the 52 kWh model. In the summer I get 240 -300 miles per charge, admittedly, with a lot of short shopping runs.
CATL has a good track record regarding their products. so far they never announced a phantasy product, only existing tech, that is in a kind of prototype stage and in the stage of getting it into production.
You only have to look at Tesla’s website. The model Y long range last year was 320 miles this year it’s 351 miles next year. It will be 400+ miles. There is nothing else the petroleum industry can do to increase the efficiency of internal combustion vehicles. This is why they are tacking on a small battery and a small motor and saying that’s the future. Ever by smart phone that cost more but did less?
@@ouethojlkjn I can do 700 miles in a day, fill up, go to bed and do 700 miles tomorrow. Your dodgem car can't do that. How do you get your flappy back doors open when the fire starts and the power goes off?
@@thisisnumber0 Don't forget to mention your party trick that you can piss into an empty Lucozade bottle at 70mph. Self care is important. You are also working on the mistaken assumption that petrol stations will be around forever. 56% of them have disappeared in the UK since 2000 and that will only accelerate. And of course, my flappy back door car manages to cost me 2p a mile in fuel. Where do you get your comparably priced red diesel from - or is it cooking oil you are burning?
You made a joke about Cobolt still being used in mobile batteries. Well the UK alone uses 135 thousand KG of Cobolt in refining the petrol it used. That's 135,000KG a day.
Cobalt consumption in refining petrol is around 500grammes for 6.6 million gallons of fuel produced. According to your figures, the UK is refining ~1.8 BILLION gallons of petrol per day - somehow I don't think so.
@@sunnybnk I don’t know where you got those figures from but just think about it. Do you know how tiny 500 g of anything is? I worked in the petrochemical and refining industry in the UK in the late 80s and all sorts of things go on that they keep very quiet about.
@@ouethojlkjn Note, I said consumption of cobalt not how much is used. There is a difference. And yes, I know what 500g is. If you read my comment, I said that consumption (loss) is for approx 6.6 million gallons of fuel. The remainder is reclaimed and used again. With respect, refining techniques may have improved since the late 80s. I spent nearly 50 years from 1973 around the world on offshore drilling units working for the drilling contractor finding the oil for eventual production and refining.
@@sunnybnk No, Cobalt reacts with sulphur in the fuel and cannot be re-cycled or re-used. It is a single use process. I also worked in offshore and was involved with processes like "Vortoil" which was actually a very good idea. In any event, the continuing assertion that children in the Congo exclusively mine Cobalt for the sole use of a tiny element of the total composition of batteries is a fallacy. It has been used for many decades in the oil industry, the Steel industry and many others - long before EVs arrived in numbers and people started bleating about child labour. Did not seem to be an issue back in 1973 eh?
It is but people don’t want to listen. My ID3 averages 200 and a charge easily lasts all week. I have to add a bit of charge to do a return trip to London but averaging the cost it still cheaper than ICE. Used public chargers less than once a month in the last 11 months and still wracked up 9.5k miles. Not even commuting, I work from home. The only time it’s been a bit of a ball ache was a holiday in Cornwall. I’d only had the car a couple of weeks and was a bit green. I had a few queues or chargers I couldn’t get working because I didn’t have the app or the signal was crap. I got buy hitting McDonalds and InstaVolt. The journey home was fairly straightforward. That extra 100 mile you have I’d have been fine. One of my regular trips is 170 mile and a couple of times I stuck an extra £6 or £7 worth on public charger and the average still works out cheaper than what I used to get out of the 60mpg Corolla. It also didn’t cost anymore than similar specced Golf / Focus / Astra @ the time of purchase. I very nearly got an MG4 but the payments were £30 a month more. We are already seeing cheap 2nd EVs hitting the market and I think we’ll do a slow burn change as the message gets out. So many people saying the can’t afford a new Ev but most car sales aren’t new. They were never going to buy a new car EV or ICE. There are some great used cars 15-18k which is the average price paid for a used car apparently. I’d go as far to say even @ 12k miles a year most current EVs have adequate range.
Given the number of charging points, that is so true. We drive our Tesla Model 3 the 900km from Brisbane to Newcastle while I only stop twice to charge. Could almost do it on one charge, but three hours driving and stopping for a rest and food is a good idea.
The other benefit is as batteries become cheaper then the cars become cheaper. Or they can maintain the same range using a smaller cheaper battery pack. I was driving along the A1 again and the number of chargers everywhere is astonishing. It won’t be long now until supermarkets discard their filling stations and install 13 amp sockets everywhere. Just like they already do in the coldest states in America for block heaters.
Has the EV world taken into account the danger to drivers health of failing to pay a fortune for petrol, and instead being force fed on McD's ? These new batteries should come wiih a health warning.
…….. you’ve been inside your room way too long. You need to breath clean air, go to a Forrest 100 miles away from a car, you’re breathing too much carbon. Brain dead commment
One thing bugging me. Cars are advertised on MPG, and not the size of the fuel tank, yet EV's are advertised on the size and/or range of the battery pack, and not on the mpkW. Due to how my contract is before this company took over, I take my empty van home. the journey to/from work plus actual work mileage is around 104 miles per day (50 miles of motorway @ 68mph limiter), but the bosses say it is not practical for me to have and EV van due to the distance. My working out says the Transit van I drive (in eco mode) does around 40-42 mpg, depending on weather (I lose 2mpg using the air con), I also work out that an EV doing 2.4mpkW uses around 40kW, and 3mpkW uses around 34kW, and have been told that there EV company cars are closer to 4.2mpkW. The contracted place for us to fuel vans is at 1.537 per litre, and costs between £16.50 and £17.80 per daily run. My local Tesla Supercharger is 42p/34p a kW (latter a member). Member costs (with monthly £8.99 fee) work out around £13 for 2.5mpkW (40kW) and £10 for 3mpkW (34kW). So surely if people get there heads sorted, they can see that EVs are much cheaper to run, but need to see that mpkW figure, like they see the mpg figure.
You make a valid point...how many people who go to buy a car ask how big is the fuel tank? I'm on my 26th car and have NEVER asked this question. In fact, I cant recall askingvwhst the mpg isceither! Its irrelevant as the mpg is dependent upon many factors, the least of which is how I (you) as a driver actually drive it, so Ivdont see as how it really matters in the great scheme of things. People buy a car for many varied, personal reasons, I suspect that the size of the fuel tank and/or mpg will not be featuring at the top of the list...if at all.
Interesting. ICE driver not enthused by current EV I can confirm stuff like this is what makes a big difference to people like me, once this becomes standard in the UK I might then be more inclined to EV. Existing EV people - surely such better battery tech like this is going to make your current EV's worthless ??
Elon Musk is already murdering resale values of used EVs by lowering prices of new ones. That's just par for the course though as they innovate and iterate giga-casting and ramp up battery manufacturing to cut costs down.
I'm not sure if I believe CATL. Until it's proven in a production car that has been driven around for 10 years, it's PR hyperbole. In many ways all of these "next year your EV will go 1000 miles and charge in 20 mins" stories are simply counterproductive to EV adoption. .
The irony being that the average daily drive is less than 30 miles! Why everyone insists on dreaming of the necessity of a 1000 mile battery is beyond logical thinking.
Positive news if true and when they reach mass production. The downside? If you are considering buying an EV on existing battery tech, wouldn't you wait? And if you own older tech get ready for a further depreciation plunge
This is why they don’t announce anything until it is already in mass production. It’s known as the Osborne effect. Also taking endless same is all very well but sooner or later you have to put the trigger or you don’t bring home any bacon.
@@stuartburns8657 Neither was announced that they were in full production. In case you were wondering - Sodium (Salt) batteries are also fully in production. Maybe you haven't heard of this either.
@@ouethojlkjn That's all the capitalist world is now. Early announcements hoping share prices rise. Yes I'm aware but thought their intended use case more grid storage
Once we can charge batteries at the same time it takes to fill up a tank and get around 200 miles out of that charge the total range on a ev dosnt matter.
That is what the 5C batteries will give you. They can recharge 5x in 1 hour. A 6C battery will recharge in 10-minutes. Most of the time you will just plug the car in at night when you park it or go days without recharging as most cars are used less than 50 miles a day.
I’ve expected to see improvements in battery technologies, but the original dogged effort to adapt lithium batteries and prove EVs could deliver useable power and range was the was really the start of providing a viable option to burning petroleum. And I find it puzzling that this would be met with such heated aversion by some groups.
batteries currently get about 7% cheaper per year and get 5% more energy density. this will go on for at least the next 10 years and drives the e-mobility revolution and home solar storage revolution. no one can stop that.
Dave, do please stop referring to rare earth metals. There are no rare earth metals in any car battery. There are no rare earths in any car battery. There are no rare anything’s in a car battery, nickel, manganese and cobalt are common as muck, but that’s not to say they may easy to dig out. In fact, the only rare earth used in evs is neodymium in the motors.
For the record CATL does not use cobalt or nickel. They have gone all in on LFP (lithium ferrous phosphate) with Sulphur doping on the cathode. For the range anxious BYD has a hybrid model that will give you 2000 km range on a 150 km charge and a 65 litre of petrol/gasoline.
Many rare earth materials are used in new battery technologies, including:  Cerium Used in batteries and most devices with screens  Cobalt Used in the cathodes of lithium-ion batteries to increase their energy density, capacity, voltage, and life cycles  Dysprosium Used in the magnets of electric vehicle motors to increase their operating temperature and reliability  Indium Used in zinc powders for alkaline batteries to increase their shelf life and slow down spontaneous discharge during storage  Neodymium Used in the magnets of electric vehicle motors to keep them turning  Terbium Used to increase the heat resistance of magnets in electric vehicle motors  Yttrium Used as a doping agent in lithium iron phosphate batteries to strengthen their iron phosphate molecular structure
Cobalt isn’t one of the rare earth elements. They are not actually rare as such, but finding them in quantities that can be economically extracted is not common, so that is where the term comes from. Personally, if they are hard to find in easily get table amounts, I would consider that rare in layman’s terms anyway. 😉
@@abelincoln3261 Cobalt and Indium aren't rare earth metals. Cobalt is a transition metal, and Indium is a post transition metal. The "rare earth" metals are specifically the ones between (and including) Lanthanum and Lutetium on the periodic table, otherwise known as "Lanthanides". Many of them aren't actually all that rare, and many metals that are, aren't called "rare earth". Just because it's metal, and rare, doesn't make it a "rare earth metal".....
And the new batteries, all the way from China via a diesel run ship, will allow freedom to discharge to less than 20% and more than 80% as and when one chooses?
Cobalt isn’t just in mobile phone batteries it’s also used in car catalytic converters and in large quantities in refining oil into petrol and diesel - something the ICE owners who dislike EVs for that reason forget about their own vehicles that emit horrible things from the tailpipe.
Yes, ICE spews out carcenogenic toxins and particulates in their wake for innocent bystanders to injest into their lungs, affecting the health of billions.... ICE age fossil fool drivers seem oblivious to this, or more than likely, they conveniently brush this under the carpet and NEVER mention this in their posts as it is embarrasingly detrimental to their hypocritical narrative. But as we are well aware, the selfish in society never consider anyone else...I doubt that their kids and grandkids will be proud of their peers attitude in their future world.
It depends....the majority of daily electricity production in the UK is now from renewables. but then again...ICE vehicles spew out carcenogenic toxins and particulates in their wake for innocent bystanders to injest into their lungs, affecting the health of billions.... ICE age fossil fool drivers seem oblivious to this, or more than likely conveniently NEVER mention this in their posts to. But then again, the selfish in society never consider anyone else...I wonder whether their kids and grandkids will be proud of their peers attitude in the future?
How many people travel even 100 miles a day? Its got to be less than 5% of the total market who need more than that. So these new high capacity batteries are more important to those who can't charge at home. So one trip a month to a lower cost Tesla supercharger to save over 50% on their old petrol bill :-) Nothing not to like. If I had an option to buy a 600 mile range I would only pay the extra if I could not charge at home for the convenience of only having to charge once a month or more in our case. My 160 mile range i3 is perfect for us because we can charge at home.
It enables the car designers more potential to optimise the offerings around battery capacity , weight , size. Imagine your i3 with its 42kWh battery being half the weight and half the size and probably Lower price and longer range. BTW most of the time our i3 is charged at home and does less than 40 miles in a day. But there have been occasions when doubling the range to around 300 miles would have been beneficial.
As someone who has a Peugeot e208, real world range 180 miles, I would like another real world 50 miles of range, but that’s about it. I only need that a few times a year and only if I am pressed for time and really don’t want to stop anywhere. So 300 miles of claimed (real 250) range would be perfect for the vast majority of people. Of course there are those that cover a lot of miles and are time-constrained and they need bigger range and faster charging, but 95% of people don’t need anything like this. Smaller, cheaper batteries with more range are the way to go for almost everyone.
We are now poised for the great crossover moment, when the actual sticker prices of EVs will be less than their gas consuming brethren. And when that happens, there'll be no going back. Folks will flock to EVs, if only on price. And then ICE box manufacturing will start to crater, leading to a virtuous cycle of ever increasing EV sales. The used ICE market will flourish for a time, but even that will begin to die out before very long.
The latest moan/lie I heard was the cars are all Chinese and the quality is poor. Also, the warranty on the battery only applies to the initial owner so not on a second hand vehicle.
Youll be waiting a very long time...they were saying their imaginary solid state battery is just around the corner ...over a decade ago! Meanwhile they get even further behind other manufacturers who have seen the light and are fully aware what they need to be doing to survive the impending onslought of the chinese who ARE just around the corner.
Great information Dave, not that any ICE driver will believe you....! This battery breakthrough will need to filter down to "Proper Cheap BEVs"..... Hopefully, over the next 3 to 5 years. People will start to be converted.
Having a greater energy density is great but using EV´s as works cars I have experienced sitting at chargers for sometimes over 1 hour to replenish the battery. The issue is the rate at which the battery can take charge and the ability of the charger to deliver charge. Having a battery that has by your figures 2.5 times the capacity (if the battery size, weight, remains the same) means spending 2.5 hours at the charger, all be it half as often. I frequently drive a BMW I7 which claims a max charge rate of 205 kw/h but even with a pre-conditioned battery on a supposedly 300 kw/h charger it has never exceeded 180 kw/h and only then for a matter of a few minutes before dropping off again. If that BMW had one of these new batteries it would have about 250 kwh of capacity or the equivalent of 8/9 average houses daily consumption. There are large areas of the grid that cannot support that level of increased demand and as a consequence will effectively throttle max recharge rates. Can these issues be overcome, of course. Does finding a solution to one of the challenges confronting EV´s sort out everything, of course not.
hydrocarbon fuel has about 8.8kw per litre, but the efficiency of the mechanical combustion engine brings that down to about 1.7 to 2.5kw hrs. so getting to 500whrs per Kg for a battery is a big deal, it is not going to beat the hydrocarbons because they have had 100+ years and at this point I would say trillions of dollars in research and development. but battery power has only been in production for maximum 30 yrs or so for cars and homes, and unlike hydrocarbons each step taken research time has halved, as this is a exponential result, in the next 10 - 15 yrs the world will see 2.5Kw hrs per Kg so this is defiantly a great step forward considering a hydrocarbon car carry's 440,000 kwh of power to achieve 600 miles range.
The only thing that will ultimately bury hydrocarbon fuels is production shortfall and unaffordable prices at the pumps. Do not worry, this is underway. JP Morgan Chase has forecast an oil production shortfall of 7 million barrels a day by 2030, and it only gets worse after that. EV’s are factored in. Peak oil is real. 8 billion people and incessant drive for economic growth guarantee it.
They were called Rare Earths in the Seventeenth Century, when they actually were rare. Since then, they have been easier to discover, but EV Haters still love to emphasize the word RARE to use as an argument about those wicked EVs that they love to hate. Bless their little cotton socks…
I think that is exactly the point he is making: you can't increase the energy density of liquid fuels but you can increase the energy density of batteries.
That isn't what he was saying. He said the energy density is the same even if some of the marketing might lead people to think they would get better mileage.
@@BillyBobSunshineIf that's aimed at me, I am aware. Not relevant to my comment, which was, you don't use premium fuel to get better mpg and, if you don't understand that, maybe it's better to not comment. Also, if you don't understand that, you're not really a driver with a passion for driving. Premium fuel is higher octane fuel that reduces the risk of detonation (preignition or knocking) in performance engines. It also contains more additives to protect the engine's moving parts and prolong the life of the engine. The mpg thing is purely an advertising ploy, which might or might not be true, based on the assumption that you don't have to work the gears as hard as when you're on standard petrol.
@@thisisnumber0I agree with you on what premium fuel does and how it should be used. My point was that sellers of premium fuel used to advertise that it gave you more MPG so it might still be a common misunderstanding.
You need to make up you mind. You say they can do this range then say they think it can do this range. If they are already making the batteries then they would absolutely know what range it will do.
Range is very little to do with the battery much more to do with the efficiency of the EV. An efficient EV will go further than an inefficient one just like a petrol car. One doing 50mpg will go further on the same size tank as one that does 20 mpg. Simples
i looks tela will have also a otherbattery they are all game changers sure one battery is not the other battery many have there ups and downs till you understand it is not the battery but how you use them.
4C 500-800 watt hour INFARSTRUCTURE doesnt exist except as proposals and test labs. The grid in AU cannnot handle many more 200watt/hr chargers that are proposed. The ability to get that sort of power to a location to charge a car is hugely expspenve and its competting against free home slow charging and cheap off peak rates. The battery advencement is good, the problem is the network. It was designed for HVoltage to delivering lowVoltage to homes. Now with homes pushing 5-20kwhr back into the grid thats almost broken the viability of the grid to function and why they are moving to user pays if pushing over 5kwh (this will drop to 3, trust me) ~ china can build 800Whhr chargers as they are building a SUPER HIGH VOLTAGE GRID accross china, its first class and way ahead of the world! The rest of us are screwed as you just dont get the maths behind DC/AC delivery and storage problems and costs!
It may be time for EV makers to form a loose consortium for launching ad campaigns to dispel the lies, half truths , and misinformation surrounding EV's. This would be for the common good as well as the growth of the movement.
If you're going to throw around slurs about lying, get your own house in order. DHL is not flying electric aircraft, the prototype isn't even certified for flight yet
We will see but problems remain. He blows off the problems with the electric grid likes it nothing, just the amount of copper needed to bring it on par with what is needed for a total conversion to EVs is insane, and we just don't have the copper mines to produce what's needed. Also remember that the more energy dense a battery becomes, the potential for destruction goes up if they have a flaw and we just don't know yet. If you go back a few years the same people were telling us how fantastic EV are and that the time to buy is now! Ask yourselves if it was perfect then, how come it turned out not to be? But now it is again... When it comes to cost just get it out of your head that you will save money by switching to an EV. We all know how politicians want those taxes and they will make bloody sure to tax the EVs up to the same level as soon as enough people switch. I just say stay skeptical and you make bloody sure it's the right thing to buy for you!
Speak for yourself, you definitely do not speak for over a million EV owners who would never go back to petrol killing everyone even their own kids ands grandkids with fumes and chemicals while lining the pockets of the oil giants destroying the planet we live on
@@davetakesiton And there we go with the hate and just out right nonsense. You know that the number one EV country in the world China use over 50% of the worlds consumption of coal just so they can produce electricity for their EVs, right? Clean my rear end. And people like you say something like, but our air is cleaner and we are getting greener all the time and soon we will be 100% green.
It will take a complete re-work of the grid. To do that you'll need to step outside of how we do things now to overcome some of its shortcomings. The grid today requires massive distribution systems from a relatively few very large generation plants. A better way is to bring smaller stations and even better would be renewable stations closer to the point if use. Where stations can't be provided there would be storage facilities which charge when demand is lower and provide increased supply for peak periods. BEV's many years ago were fantastic for those where the product fit the need of the consumer. The BEV's now in the pipeline will fit the need for a much larger portion of the consumer market. The CATL battery he is talking about has already gone through stress and longevity testing as it's currently in the manufacturing stage. In the past when you've heard about new tech in batteries it was when they achieved small scale results in design labs. Anyone in manufacturing will tell you the jump from design to manufacturing is where all the real problems come to light. The don't need 10-years to test as the batteries will go through rapid charge and discharge cycles as well as thermal or physical cycling that will replicate 10-years of use. This is the same process virtually every other material is subjected to before it's put into a building, airplane, etc... As petrol use diminishes the tax generation for road repair will need to come from somewhere. Here in the states that makes up a small portion of the total cost of the fuel. Where you live it might be higher. While maintenance and refueling costs are much lower with BEV's the cost for tires and insurance is definitely higher. The higher density batteries can lower the weight and commuter cars can be "detuned" to lower the torque output. That would reduce the cost of both tires and Insurance.
Plenty of grid capacity for charging at night. The grid expansion required is about the same that was required in the US during the 1960s when air conditioning became popular
Long journeys ICEs Short journeys EVs That is at present. Long journeys EVs Short journeys ICEs That is the aim and it will never be achieved. I have an ICE car for mostly short local journeys and occasional long journeys and fill up the tank once every couple of months or so…..best ever. Until you see the motorways full of EVs ….This will never happen in my lifetime.
Worth remembering the current thought is that the low sulphur for shipping fuel may have contributed to rising temperatures globally due to the reduction of the clouds is produced causing ocean temperatures to rise. The real problem is over consumption vs finance amount of capacity to absorb. Our ever growing population is the end game I’d the problem but everyone keeps harping on about driving an EV will save the planet. It won’t.
The main reason super fast charges cannot make use of such batteries is the local power networks could not sustain such high power outputs …. But slower overnight charges at home could really make much use of these new batteries, particularly with V2G options built in to stabilise the grid.
I recently had a month in France, driving my 2019 Tesla Model 3 LR, owned from new. I used the Supercharger network and travelled to the Pyrenees, Limousin and Loire Atlantique, a lot more than 1000 miles. Have received my card statement, which I find hard to credit! Just £90 charging costs (£15 of that in England!) No fill up more than £12, - low to 80%. The French, too, are complaining noisily about electricity prices! Bring on the revolution, but things aren’t so bad right now!
No mention of how it will perform when driven/used the way an ICE vehicle is used. I.E. Keeping me toasty warm in winter and cool in summer and no mention of the effect, if any, of very cold weather. Are the folks in Boston going to be happy in the winter months? Once all the R&D has been done by the manufacturers, and paid for by the current batch of EV drivers, and the product is of similar quality/capability to the one they want to replace, I might just be enticed.
Charging speed is reliant on the amount of electricity coming to the charger, just because a charger can put out a certain rate doesn't mean it will. It's like putting a larger diameter hose on your garden tap, your not going to get more water out of it!
And when governments lose the massive amounts of tax revenue from fossil fuels they are going to look at revenue from EV charging and ownership no doubt 😂
They will also see the return of tax subsidies they would no longer be receiving. "Tax subsidies for oil, gas and coal development are expected to reduce federal revenue by $12.9 billion from 2022 to 2026 "
How much tax revenue is being collected from fossil fuels? Out of interest is the government losing money? How much tax subsidies are going to EV and charging versus the taxes collected?
This will make a huge difference, charging time is far more important than range. I doubt if Tesla will ever offer a 1000Km range car if it can be charge faster. Why would you need that? The faster the charging rate, the fewer chargers you need at motorway services. Oil is doomed however you look at it. The end to end efficiency is terrible, and that alone is enough to kill them off. Fairly soon, you won't be able to make an ICE car as cheaply as a BEV. Batteries are only going to get more dense, faster charging, lighter and cheaper. Once battery costs are cheap, which they inevitably will be, you won't be able to get close to making an ICE engine and power train which is ludicrously complex by comparison.
A battery and the fuel isn't comparable in your comparison, saying if you could buy a fuel with 2x the range is comparable to charging with a new electricity that gives 2x the range, what you are comparing is the power plant, so your comparison is more relevant to changing the engine to give the same performance with 2x the efficiency 👍
Wrong. Continued use of ICEs contributes to the global warming that is projected to reach 4 Deg C by the end of the century and make life for our grandchildren extremely difficult. EVs help to prevent this disaster.
Many rare earth materials are used in new battery technologies, including: Cerium Used in batteries and most devices with screens Cobalt Used in the cathodes of lithium-ion batteries to increase their energy density, capacity, voltage, and life cycles Dysprosium Used in the magnets of electric vehicle motors to increase their operating temperature and reliability Indium Used in zinc powders for alkaline batteries to increase their shelf life and slow down spontaneous discharge during storage Neodymium Used in the magnets of electric vehicle motors to keep them turning Terbium Used to increase the heat resistance of magnets in electric vehicle motors Yttrium Used as a doping agent in lithium iron phosphate batteries to strengthen their iron phosphate molecular structure
Most of the negativity towards evs are from those who are too old for the tech...too ignorant for any need to change...too stubborn to listen any reason...too ignorant to do any real research....let them fall...2035
You mean the same emf Bomb you put right next to your ear everytime you make a phone call? Or the emf that you placed in your lounge (wireless route) and sit in for hours every day??
If you're talking directly to me-NO. I do not sleep with my phone and use speaker phone 99% of the time. Neither do I stream. No WIFI in my house. CABLE TV and connection to my router. No microwave oven. And even if you added all those up they wouldn't come close to the accumulative affect of daily driving an EV
Increasing the speed of charging does nothing to counter the reality that building EV's and disposing/recycling EV's at the end of their useful lives is many times more damaging to the environment than ICE vehicles as well as the fact that in most countries EV's are nothing more than remote combustion vehicles generating many times more pollutants than ICE vehicles. Besides, I will believe this familiar "miracle" in battery production, fast charging, and "incredible range" when I see it working in reality. China has a long history of selling more vaporware than Elon Musk ever dreamed of in his wildest imagination.
The problem with EVs is you save too much money. My Mrs has a monthly spending spree on stuff for the house that usually involves some level of DIY...going back to a fossil fool car🤣
DAve mate, EV production is not sustainable, one fact to replace all ICE vehicles, you will need more copper than the total that humanity has ever mined!
That isn't true. The tech will improve to the point where most people will not even own a vehicle as they will just use a self-drive ride-share car. Many of the younger generation have no intention of even getting a drivers license.
When by using EVs, the overlords will interfere with internal combustion engines and fuel supply that delivers your food and everything you seem to enjoy, it will make no difference whether you cannot drive your EV or your ICE vehicle.
Three years ago, I went for an EV test drive after my brother said i would never have an EV. I bought one and the price due to pre-reg, was roughly the same as the new EVs coming out this year. I had to scrap my home petrol station and strengthen the drawbridge, of course! Never say Never...Mr Bond.....
I'll believe it when I see it, Dave.
Interesting news Dave as you seem to explain it if I understand it correctly these batteries stuffed into an existing design will go up to 2x as far. More importantly you can have a specifically designed car with half the battery and cost and weight which now enables somewhere near to price parity and assists much more specific EV architecture.
That's if I understand your report correctly exciting times ahead.
Yup. Half the weight, efficiency up massively and small sports cars will handle better.
Good thinking. The importance of vastly improved specific energy and energy density is in the production of smaller, lighter cars with decent range and the reduction of 'tanks' on our roads (ev and ice). Watch this space.
Sorry. Should have included battery life if the very high charge rate results in greatly increased heating. What is the guess for car pricing?
The biggest problem is the charging network. It doesn't matter how fast the battery can be charged if there are no chargers that can charge at that rate. CATL BYD and other battery makers should be leading the charge (pun intended) to build more chargers. also Ice vehicles are up to 60 times more likely to catch fire while sitting parked than an EV.
China has ULTRA HIGH LONG DISTANCE AC/DV power distrubution, its world class and way ahead of anything anywhere else in the world so they can and will do Cat4 500whr and Ive seen 800whr chargers as they will work. The grid was made for it, powerloss from generating power in Tibet and delivery in the easten china is now not a dream but reality. Our grid in AU cant handle the solar going into it as it is and Ive had a street capacitor blowup (sounded like a 911 bomb blast) and now they will be charginf or over 5khr into the grid so you now spend your money on batts at home. Our 240V power grid 50hz 10AMPS single phrase. 3 phrase is 240V 30A (240x30Ah=700what hr) AC that now needs to be converted to DC. These are native Ah500/700 DC! Ones a trickle the others a floodgate!
EV's are impossible to put out. Parked ICE fires were mainly due to electrical issues and ridiculous emissions reducing hardware. There is no comparison. Statistics never lie, but liars use statistics.
Tesla has no problems at all with its charging network in the UK. I have used it many times for distant travel and it really isn’t an issue. I also see huge numbers of new installations going in from competitor networks. I agree this situation was rubbish for non-Tesla drivers but that has changed and will continue to do so
@@mrsrhardyyou have the units all messed up, though.
Chargers provides Watts also written as kilowatts (kW).
Your 3-phase is Volt times Ampéres to get Watts over the three phases, so 16 A gives 11 kw, 20A gives 14 kW and 25A gives 17 kW etc.
The DC you mention, is expressed as Volts and Amps as well.
Another talking point is how much electricity that is used to refine petrol. Last year the UK used 2.83 billion gallons of petrol. It takes 15Kwh of electricity to refine one gallon of petrol. There are approximately 32 million private cars on the roads of the UK. If all of them where electric and 8:07 you do the sums that is 135.265 Kw of electricity per car enough to allow a low efficiency EV 3.2 miles per KWh, drive 425,000 miles a year. Just with the energy used to refine petrol. Interesting....
Where did you get 15kWh of electricity to refine 1gallon of petrol? I've seen various figures for this but none that high (typically see around 5kWh); it's still relevant to the discussion but needs to be accurate,
Stop BS suggests 25% of the grid is used to refine petrol/diesel. So, as fossil fuel production is reduced the replacement EVs will not require a new improved grid. Then, when the grid is made ‘smart’, the grid will use vehicle batteries as backup peak energy. It really is a win-win.
@@paulweston1106 maybe I should have looked further. I agree with 5kw but even taking that into account it would still amount to a lot of miles in a EV.
According to most credible sources (e.g. Argonne labs in the USA), the well to tank efficiency for petrol (pumping oil out of the ground, tanker transport to refinery, refining, transport from refinery to petrol station etc) is about 80% to 85% efficient.
There is about 40kwh of energy in a gallon of petrol, so if you assume 80% efficiency, ALL of the well to tank processes use 10kwh of ENERGY. Most of this is process heat for cracking and reforming, fractional distillation etc., obtained by burning byproducts of the refining process. Only a small amount of this is electricity, used to run pumps etc.
To convert the 10kwh of ENERGY used to produce a gallon of petrol into electricity to run an EV would require you to burn it in something to generate electricity. This would have an efficiency of between about 33% for a thermal power station to 58% for a closed cycle gas turbine, so you would end up with between 3.3kwh, and 5.8kwh of electricity.
This is enough to run something like a Tesla model 3 for between about about 14 miles, and 24 miles. A Mazda 3 gets something like 50mpg.
Your figures come from a quote by Elon Musk, which is basically just more marketing BS,, and has been widely debunked......
@@peeemm2032This is still a very significant result even if over egged by Musk.
You can get a second hand Zoë with about 12000 miles for about £12000. Running costs are very low. It’s like a Clío without the exhaust. And this is for the 52 kWh model. In the summer I get 240 -300 miles per charge, admittedly, with a lot of short shopping runs.
Here we go again. Let's guess what's next week's technology that's going to get us to the moon and back.
CATL has a good track record regarding their products. so far they never announced a phantasy product, only existing tech, that is in a kind of prototype stage and in the stage of getting it into production.
You only have to look at Tesla’s website. The model Y long range last year was 320 miles this year it’s 351 miles next year. It will be 400+ miles. There is nothing else the petroleum industry can do to increase the efficiency of internal combustion vehicles. This is why they are tacking on a small battery and a small motor and saying that’s the future. Ever by smart phone that cost more but did less?
@@ouethojlkjn I can do 700 miles in a day, fill up, go to bed and do 700 miles tomorrow. Your dodgem car can't do that.
How do you get your flappy back doors open when the fire starts and the power goes off?
@@thisisnumber0 Don't forget to mention your party trick that you can piss into an empty Lucozade bottle at 70mph. Self care is important. You are also working on the mistaken assumption that petrol stations will be around forever. 56% of them have disappeared in the UK since 2000 and that will only accelerate. And of course, my flappy back door car manages to cost me 2p a mile in fuel. Where do you get your comparably priced red diesel from - or is it cooking oil you are burning?
You made a joke about Cobolt still being used in mobile batteries. Well the UK alone uses 135 thousand KG of Cobolt in refining the petrol it used. That's 135,000KG a day.
Save child labour in cobalt mines of Congo. Switch to an LFP or sodium EV today!
Cobalt consumption in refining petrol is around 500grammes for 6.6 million gallons of fuel produced. According to your figures, the UK is refining ~1.8 BILLION gallons of petrol per day - somehow I don't think so.
@@sunnybnk I don’t know where you got those figures from but just think about it. Do you know how tiny 500 g of anything is? I worked in the petrochemical and refining industry in the UK in the late 80s and all sorts of things go on that they keep very quiet about.
@@ouethojlkjn Note, I said consumption of cobalt not how much is used. There is a difference. And yes, I know what 500g is. If you read my comment, I said that consumption (loss) is for approx 6.6 million gallons of fuel. The remainder is reclaimed and used again. With respect, refining techniques may have improved since the late 80s. I spent nearly 50 years from 1973 around the world on offshore drilling units working for the drilling contractor finding the oil for eventual production and refining.
@@sunnybnk No, Cobalt reacts with sulphur in the fuel and cannot be re-cycled or re-used. It is a single use process. I also worked in offshore and was involved with processes like "Vortoil" which was actually a very good idea. In any event, the continuing assertion that children in the Congo exclusively mine Cobalt for the sole use of a tiny element of the total composition of batteries is a fallacy. It has been used for many decades in the oil industry, the Steel industry and many others - long before EVs arrived in numbers and people started bleating about child labour. Did not seem to be an issue back in 1973 eh?
I don't use 'game changer' often, ...but these two batteries are absolute game changers!
No they are not!
My MG4 LR tops up to 300 miles plus. That's enough for most people.
It is but people don’t want to listen. My ID3 averages 200 and a charge easily lasts all week. I have to add a bit of charge to do a return trip to London but averaging the cost it still cheaper than ICE. Used public chargers less than once a month in the last 11 months and still wracked up 9.5k miles. Not even commuting, I work from home. The only time it’s been a bit of a ball ache was a holiday in Cornwall. I’d only had the car a couple of weeks and was a bit green. I had a few queues or chargers I couldn’t get working because I didn’t have the app or the signal was crap. I got buy hitting McDonalds and InstaVolt. The journey home was fairly straightforward. That extra 100 mile you have I’d have been fine. One of my regular trips is 170 mile and a couple of times I stuck an extra £6 or £7 worth on public charger and the average still works out cheaper than what I used to get out of the 60mpg Corolla. It also didn’t cost anymore than similar specced Golf / Focus / Astra @ the time of purchase. I very nearly got an MG4 but the payments were £30 a month more. We are already seeing cheap 2nd EVs hitting the market and I think we’ll do a slow burn change as the message gets out. So many people saying the can’t afford a new Ev but most car sales aren’t new. They were never going to buy a new car EV or ICE. There are some great used cars 15-18k which is the average price paid for a used car apparently. I’d go as far to say even @ 12k miles a year most current EVs have adequate range.
Given the number of charging points, that is so true. We drive our Tesla Model 3 the 900km from Brisbane to Newcastle while I only stop twice to charge. Could almost do it on one charge, but three hours driving and stopping for a rest and food is a good idea.
The other benefit is as batteries become cheaper then the cars become cheaper. Or they can maintain the same range using a smaller cheaper battery pack. I was driving along the A1 again and the number of chargers everywhere is astonishing. It won’t be long now until supermarkets discard their filling stations and install 13 amp sockets everywhere. Just like they already do in the coldest states in America for block heaters.
Has the EV world taken into account the danger to drivers health of failing to pay a fortune for petrol, and instead being force fed on McD's ? These new batteries should come wiih a health warning.
…….. you’ve been inside your room way too long. You need to breath clean air, go to a Forrest 100 miles away from a car, you’re breathing too much carbon. Brain dead commment
I love that opening statement Dave, especially the term "Fossil Fool"; I can't believe this the first time I've heard it used.
Great one and now I want a McFlurry!
One thing bugging me.
Cars are advertised on MPG, and not the size of the fuel tank, yet EV's are advertised on the size and/or range of the battery pack, and not on the mpkW.
Due to how my contract is before this company took over, I take my empty van home. the journey to/from work plus actual work mileage is around 104 miles per day (50 miles of motorway @ 68mph limiter), but the bosses say it is not practical for me to have and EV van due to the distance.
My working out says the Transit van I drive (in eco mode) does around 40-42 mpg, depending on weather (I lose 2mpg using the air con), I also work out that an EV doing 2.4mpkW uses around 40kW, and 3mpkW uses around 34kW, and have been told that there EV company cars are closer to 4.2mpkW.
The contracted place for us to fuel vans is at 1.537 per litre, and costs between £16.50 and £17.80 per daily run.
My local Tesla Supercharger is 42p/34p a kW (latter a member).
Member costs (with monthly £8.99 fee) work out around £13 for 2.5mpkW (40kW) and £10 for 3mpkW (34kW).
So surely if people get there heads sorted, they can see that EVs are much cheaper to run, but need to see that mpkW figure, like they see the mpg figure.
You make a valid point...how many people who go to buy a car ask how big is the fuel tank?
I'm on my 26th car and have NEVER asked this question.
In fact, I cant recall askingvwhst the mpg isceither! Its irrelevant as the mpg is dependent upon many factors, the least of which is how I (you) as a driver actually drive it, so Ivdont see as how it really matters in the great scheme of things.
People buy a car for many varied, personal reasons, I suspect that the size of the fuel tank and/or mpg will not be featuring at the top of the list...if at all.
Interesting. ICE driver not enthused by current EV I can confirm stuff like this is what makes a big difference to people like me, once this becomes standard in the UK I might then be more inclined to EV.
Existing EV people - surely such better battery tech like this is going to make your current EV's worthless ??
Elon Musk is already murdering resale values of used EVs by lowering prices of new ones. That's just par for the course though as they innovate and iterate giga-casting and ramp up battery manufacturing to cut costs down.
Ouch! There is always a spoil sport.
No...We'll sell them to the ICE driver late adopters who haven't taken the trouble to understand what is going on in the world!
How many 500 kwh chargers now in GB ??
@@archiefleming652 None...but you actually won't need that many if you think about it...or maybe you don't!
8:46) Doesn't a double BigMac have as much oil as a litre of petrol?
I'm not sure if I believe CATL. Until it's proven in a production car that has been driven around for 10 years, it's PR hyperbole.
In many ways all of these "next year your EV will go 1000 miles and charge in 20 mins" stories are simply counterproductive to EV adoption. .
The irony being that the average daily drive is less than 30 miles!
Why everyone insists on dreaming of the necessity of a 1000 mile battery is beyond logical thinking.
@@David-bl1btNo one want an electric motorcycle that only goes 100.miles and take 45 minutes to recharge
I hope theses new batteries are easy to retro fit in the future.
Sure Dave.
...the "fossil fool" industry?? :)
You are a dreamer, ill give you that 😅
Positive news if true and when they reach mass production.
The downside? If you are considering buying an EV on existing battery tech, wouldn't you wait?
And if you own older tech get ready for a further depreciation plunge
This is why they don’t announce anything until it is already in mass production. It’s known as the Osborne effect. Also taking endless same is all very well but sooner or later you have to put the trigger or you don’t bring home any bacon.
@@ouethojlkjn Like FSD?
Roadsters? Robotaxi's you mean?
@@stuartburns8657 Neither was announced that they were in full production. In case you were wondering - Sodium (Salt) batteries are also fully in production. Maybe you haven't heard of this either.
@@ouethojlkjn That's all the capitalist world is now. Early announcements hoping share prices rise.
Yes I'm aware but thought their intended use case more grid storage
Once we can charge batteries at the same time it takes to fill up a tank and get around 200 miles out of that charge the total range on a ev dosnt matter.
That is what the 5C batteries will give you. They can recharge 5x in 1 hour. A 6C battery will recharge in 10-minutes. Most of the time you will just plug the car in at night when you park it or go days without recharging as most cars are used less than 50 miles a day.
Not just EVs, but all battery storage, like home solar, would be hugely improved, if this is true
I’ve expected to see improvements in battery technologies, but the original dogged effort to adapt lithium batteries and prove EVs could deliver useable power and range was the was really the start of providing a viable option to burning petroleum. And I find it puzzling that this would be met with such heated aversion by some groups.
batteries currently get about 7% cheaper per year and get 5% more energy density.
this will go on for at least the next 10 years and drives the e-mobility revolution and home solar storage revolution. no one can stop that.
Dave, do please stop referring to rare earth metals. There are no rare earth metals in any car battery. There are no rare earths in any car battery. There are no rare anything’s in a car battery, nickel, manganese and cobalt are common as muck, but that’s not to say they may easy to dig out. In fact, the only rare earth used in evs is neodymium in the motors.
For the record CATL does not use cobalt or nickel.
They have gone all in on LFP (lithium ferrous phosphate) with Sulphur doping on the cathode.
For the range anxious BYD has a hybrid model that will give you 2000 km range on a 150 km charge and a 65 litre of petrol/gasoline.
Many rare earth materials are used in new battery technologies, including:

Cerium
Used in batteries and most devices with screens

Cobalt
Used in the cathodes of lithium-ion batteries to increase their energy density, capacity, voltage, and life cycles

Dysprosium
Used in the magnets of electric vehicle motors to increase their operating temperature and reliability

Indium
Used in zinc powders for alkaline batteries to increase their shelf life and slow down spontaneous discharge during storage

Neodymium
Used in the magnets of electric vehicle motors to keep them turning

Terbium
Used to increase the heat resistance of magnets in electric vehicle motors

Yttrium
Used as a doping agent in lithium iron phosphate batteries to strengthen their iron phosphate molecular structure
Cobalt isn’t one of the rare earth elements.
They are not actually rare as such, but finding them in quantities that can be economically extracted is not common, so that is where the term comes from. Personally, if they are hard to find in easily get table amounts, I would consider that rare in layman’s terms anyway. 😉
@@abelincoln3261 You do realise that these are also used in the production of petrol and diesel?
@@abelincoln3261 Cobalt and Indium aren't rare earth metals. Cobalt is a transition metal, and Indium is a post transition metal.
The "rare earth" metals are specifically the ones between (and including) Lanthanum and Lutetium on the periodic table, otherwise known as "Lanthanides". Many of them aren't actually all that rare, and many metals that are, aren't called "rare earth". Just because it's metal, and rare, doesn't make it a "rare earth metal".....
And the new batteries, all the way from China via a diesel run ship, will allow freedom to discharge to less than 20% and more than 80% as and when one chooses?
Remember we are in a transition. If we wait for every part of the economy to be carbon neutral before we change anything, nothing will ever change.
They are building a plant in Mexico. These newer batteries work better if you occasionally charge them over 80% unlike the older Li batteries.
Cobalt isn’t just in mobile phone batteries it’s also used in car catalytic converters and in large quantities in refining oil into petrol and diesel - something the ICE owners who dislike EVs for that reason forget about their own vehicles that emit horrible things from the tailpipe.
Yes, ICE spews out carcenogenic toxins and particulates in their wake for innocent bystanders to injest into their lungs, affecting the health of billions.... ICE age fossil fool drivers seem oblivious to this, or more than likely, they conveniently brush this under the carpet and NEVER mention this in their posts as it is embarrasingly detrimental to their hypocritical narrative.
But as we are well aware, the selfish in society never consider anyone else...I doubt that their kids and grandkids will be proud of their peers attitude in their future world.
And the EV dumps its emissions at the power generating station. No exhaust doesn't mean no emissions.
It depends....the majority of daily electricity production in the UK is now from renewables.
but then again...ICE vehicles spew out carcenogenic toxins and particulates in their wake for innocent bystanders to injest into their lungs, affecting the health of billions.... ICE age fossil fool drivers seem oblivious to this, or more than likely conveniently NEVER mention this in their posts to.
But then again, the selfish in society never consider anyone else...I wonder whether their kids and grandkids will be proud of their peers attitude in the future?
Were crashes responsible for those 10 BYD showrooms in China that burnt down?
Love thAt EV range is increasing but for nowadays, I prefer faster charging. Normally I don't need the range but i
god bless catl
🌞 ☀️ 🌞 ☀️ the SUN is FREE for everyone! Use it people 😊
How many people travel even 100 miles a day? Its got to be less than 5% of the total market who need more than that.
So these new high capacity batteries are more important to those who can't charge at home. So one trip a month to a lower cost Tesla supercharger to save over 50% on their old petrol bill :-) Nothing not to like.
If I had an option to buy a 600 mile range I would only pay the extra if I could not charge at home for the convenience of only having to charge once a month or more in our case. My 160 mile range i3 is perfect for us because we can charge at home.
It enables the car designers more potential to optimise the offerings around battery capacity , weight , size. Imagine your i3 with its 42kWh battery being half the weight and half the size and probably Lower price and longer range. BTW most of the time our i3 is charged at home and does less than 40 miles in a day. But there have been occasions when doubling the range to around 300 miles would have been beneficial.
The average UK motorway journey is 70 to 80 miles..... The average daily commute is 20.8 miles.
If EVs ever really get common see how the power prices go up probably for the " greater good"
As someone who has a Peugeot e208, real world range 180 miles, I would like another real world 50 miles of range, but that’s about it. I only need that a few times a year and only if I am pressed for time and really don’t want to stop anywhere.
So 300 miles of claimed (real 250) range would be perfect for the vast majority of people. Of course there are those that cover a lot of miles and are time-constrained and they need bigger range and faster charging, but 95% of people don’t need anything like this.
Smaller, cheaper batteries with more range are the way to go for almost everyone.
The vast majority of people dont want EVs
Tell us when an all electric train is in service
😱2:07 he FLIPPED 🐦 on us! 🖕
We are now poised for the great crossover moment, when the actual sticker prices of EVs will be less than their gas consuming brethren. And when that happens, there'll be no going back. Folks will flock to EVs, if only on price. And then ICE box manufacturing will start to crater, leading to a virtuous cycle of ever increasing EV sales. The used ICE market will flourish for a time, but even that will begin to die out before very long.
Sorry. The McFLurry machine is broken.
The latest moan/lie I heard was the cars are all Chinese and the quality is poor. Also, the warranty on the battery only applies to the initial owner so not on a second hand vehicle.
get real man we the people are waiting for Toyota to have a realistic reliable and reasonably priced solid state EV
Youll be waiting a very long time...they were saying their imaginary solid state battery is just around the corner ...over a decade ago!
Meanwhile they get even further behind other manufacturers who have seen the light and are fully aware what they need to be doing to survive the impending onslought of the chinese who ARE just around the corner.
Great information Dave, not that any ICE driver will believe you....! This battery breakthrough will need to filter down to "Proper Cheap BEVs"..... Hopefully, over the next 3 to 5 years. People will start to be converted.
Having a greater energy density is great but using EV´s as works cars I have experienced sitting at chargers for sometimes over 1 hour to replenish the battery. The issue is the rate at which the battery can take charge and the ability of the charger to deliver charge. Having a battery that has by your figures 2.5 times the capacity (if the battery size, weight, remains the same) means spending 2.5 hours at the charger, all be it half as often. I frequently drive a BMW I7 which claims a max charge rate of 205 kw/h but even with a pre-conditioned battery on a supposedly 300 kw/h charger it has never exceeded 180 kw/h and only then for a matter of a few minutes before dropping off again. If that BMW had one of these new batteries it would have about 250 kwh of capacity or the equivalent of 8/9 average houses daily consumption. There are large areas of the grid that cannot support that level of increased demand and as a consequence will effectively throttle max recharge rates.
Can these issues be overcome, of course. Does finding a solution to one of the challenges confronting EV´s sort out everything, of course not.
Tell us the energy density of batteries compared with gasoline or diesel.
hydrocarbon fuel has about 8.8kw per litre, but the efficiency of the mechanical combustion engine brings that down to about 1.7 to 2.5kw hrs.
so getting to 500whrs per Kg for a battery is a big deal, it is not going to beat the hydrocarbons because they have had 100+ years and at this point I would say trillions of dollars
in research and development. but battery power has only been in production for maximum 30 yrs or so for cars and homes, and unlike hydrocarbons each step taken research time has halved, as this is a exponential result, in the next 10 - 15 yrs the world will see 2.5Kw hrs per Kg so this is defiantly a great step forward considering a hydrocarbon car carry's 440,000 kwh
of power to achieve 600 miles range.
The only thing that will ultimately bury hydrocarbon fuels is production shortfall and unaffordable prices at the pumps.
Do not worry, this is underway. JP Morgan Chase has forecast an oil production shortfall of 7 million barrels a day by 2030, and it only gets worse after that. EV’s are factored in.
Peak oil is real. 8 billion people and incessant drive for economic growth guarantee it.
Japan found lots of resources at the sea
The real change will come when someone like Octopus join the charger market and link them to your home bill and at your home rate.
All I hear is should, could, would. However, it's good to have dreams, especially if you don't know what you're talking about. Dunning Krueger effect
They were called Rare Earths in the Seventeenth Century, when they actually were rare. Since then, they have been easier to discover, but EV Haters still love to emphasize the word RARE to use as an argument about those wicked EVs that they love to hate.
Bless their little cotton socks…
Let’s hope so. Fossil fuels need to go!
Premium fuel isn't about mpg. If you don't get that, maybe you shouldn't be talking about it, does your credibility no favours.
I think that is exactly the point he is making: you can't increase the energy density of liquid fuels but you can increase the energy density of batteries.
That isn't what he was saying. He said the energy density is the same even if some of the marketing might lead people to think they would get better mileage.
BP ultimate adverts claim you can get "21 more miles per tank"
@@BillyBobSunshineIf that's aimed at me, I am aware. Not relevant to my comment, which was, you don't use premium fuel to get better mpg and, if you don't understand that, maybe it's better to not comment. Also, if you don't understand that, you're not really a driver with a passion for driving. Premium fuel is higher octane fuel that reduces the risk of detonation (preignition or knocking) in performance engines. It also contains more additives to protect the engine's moving parts and prolong the life of the engine.
The mpg thing is purely an advertising ploy, which might or might not be true, based on the assumption that you don't have to work the gears as hard as when you're on standard petrol.
@@thisisnumber0I agree with you on what premium fuel does and how it should be used. My point was that sellers of premium fuel used to advertise that it gave you more MPG so it might still be a common misunderstanding.
renault claim that the renault austrel hybrid has a claimed range of 684 miles
You need to make up you mind. You say they can do this range then say they think it can do this range. If they are already making the batteries then they would absolutely know what range it will do.
Range is very little to do with the battery much more to do with the efficiency of the EV. An efficient EV will go further than an inefficient one just like a petrol car. One doing 50mpg will go further on the same size tank as one that does 20 mpg. Simples
No it won’t oil companies pay a lump sum
3 Fs of EVs……Fanboys, Fleet Sales and Freebies ( govt subsidies).
No government subsidies for EVs here in the UK Plenty of subsidies for the fossil fuel industry in the form of generous tax breaks though
i looks tela will have also a otherbattery they are all game changers sure
one battery is not the other battery many have there ups and downs
till you understand it is not the battery but how you use them.
4C 500-800 watt hour INFARSTRUCTURE doesnt exist except as proposals and test labs. The grid in AU cannnot handle many more 200watt/hr chargers that are proposed. The ability to get that sort of power to a location to charge a car is hugely expspenve and its competting against free home slow charging and cheap off peak rates. The battery advencement is good, the problem is the network. It was designed for HVoltage to delivering lowVoltage to homes. Now with homes pushing 5-20kwhr back into the grid thats almost broken the viability of the grid to function and why they are moving to user pays if pushing over 5kwh (this will drop to 3, trust me) ~ china can build 800Whhr chargers as they are building a SUPER HIGH VOLTAGE GRID accross china, its first class and way ahead of the world! The rest of us are screwed as you just dont get the maths behind DC/AC delivery and storage problems and costs!
Great news video Dave. Many thanks and have a good weekend 👍
It may be time for EV makers to form a loose consortium for launching ad campaigns to dispel the lies, half truths , and misinformation surrounding EV's. This would be for the common good as well as the growth of the movement.
Haha, so facts are now myths and misinformation. Electric utopia fanboys are so delusional it is scary!
If you're going to throw around slurs about lying, get your own house in order. DHL is not flying electric aircraft, the prototype isn't even certified for flight yet
Battery advances hasten the move from Internal Combustion Engine to Green Energy. We all can breathe a little easier.
Dream, dream, dream... You never learn!
We will see but problems remain. He blows off the problems with the electric grid likes it nothing, just the amount of copper needed to bring it on par with what is needed for a total conversion to EVs is insane, and we just don't have the copper mines to produce what's needed. Also remember that the more energy dense a battery becomes, the potential for destruction goes up if they have a flaw and we just don't know yet.
If you go back a few years the same people were telling us how fantastic EV are and that the time to buy is now! Ask yourselves if it was perfect then, how come it turned out not to be? But now it is again...
When it comes to cost just get it out of your head that you will save money by switching to an EV. We all know how politicians want those taxes and they will make bloody sure to tax the EVs up to the same level as soon as enough people switch.
I just say stay skeptical and you make bloody sure it's the right thing to buy for you!
Speak for yourself, you definitely do not speak for over a million EV owners who would never go back to petrol killing everyone even their own kids ands grandkids with fumes and chemicals while lining the pockets of the oil giants destroying the planet we live on
@@davetakesiton And there we go with the hate and just out right nonsense.
You know that the number one EV country in the world China use over 50% of the worlds consumption of coal just so they can produce electricity for their EVs, right?
Clean my rear end. And people like you say something like, but our air is cleaner and we are getting greener all the time and soon we will be 100% green.
It will take a complete re-work of the grid. To do that you'll need to step outside of how we do things now to overcome some of its shortcomings. The grid today requires massive distribution systems from a relatively few very large generation plants. A better way is to bring smaller stations and even better would be renewable stations closer to the point if use. Where stations can't be provided there would be storage facilities which charge when demand is lower and provide increased supply for peak periods.
BEV's many years ago were fantastic for those where the product fit the need of the consumer. The BEV's now in the pipeline will fit the need for a much larger portion of the consumer market.
The CATL battery he is talking about has already gone through stress and longevity testing as it's currently in the manufacturing stage. In the past when you've heard about new tech in batteries it was when they achieved small scale results in design labs. Anyone in manufacturing will tell you the jump from design to manufacturing is where all the real problems come to light. The don't need 10-years to test as the batteries will go through rapid charge and discharge cycles as well as thermal or physical cycling that will replicate 10-years of use. This is the same process virtually every other material is subjected to before it's put into a building, airplane, etc...
As petrol use diminishes the tax generation for road repair will need to come from somewhere. Here in the states that makes up a small portion of the total cost of the fuel. Where you live it might be higher.
While maintenance and refueling costs are much lower with BEV's the cost for tires and insurance is definitely higher. The higher density batteries can lower the weight and commuter cars can be "detuned" to lower the torque output. That would reduce the cost of both tires and Insurance.
Plenty of grid capacity for charging at night. The grid expansion required is about the same that was required in the US during the 1960s when air conditioning became popular
@@davetakesiton Total b.s. and political propoganda
Long journeys ICEs
Short journeys EVs
That is at present.
Long journeys EVs
Short journeys ICEs
That is the aim and it will never be achieved.
I have an ICE car for mostly short local journeys and occasional long journeys and fill up the tank once every couple of months or so…..best ever.
Until you see the motorways full of EVs ….This will never happen in my lifetime.
Cobalt is also used to remove sulfur from petroleum. Big Oil has no plans to stop mining cobalt.
Worth remembering the current thought is that the low sulphur for shipping fuel may have contributed to rising temperatures globally due to the reduction of the clouds is produced causing ocean temperatures to rise. The real problem is over consumption vs finance amount of capacity to absorb. Our ever growing population is the end game I’d the problem but everyone keeps harping on about driving an EV will save the planet. It won’t.
😮 I have a smartphone
with the "bitchy Siri" option, I have a smartarsephone
@@FrunkensteinVonZipperneckcool
Cheers Dave
The main reason super fast charges cannot make use of such batteries is the local power networks could not sustain such high power outputs …. But slower overnight charges at home could really make much use of these new batteries, particularly with V2G options built in to stabilise the grid.
Nope!
I recently had a month in France, driving my 2019 Tesla Model 3 LR, owned from new. I used the Supercharger network and travelled to the Pyrenees, Limousin and Loire Atlantique, a lot more than 1000 miles. Have received my card statement, which I find hard to credit! Just £90 charging costs (£15 of that in England!) No fill up more than £12, - low to 80%. The French, too, are complaining noisily about electricity prices! Bring on the revolution, but things aren’t so bad right now!
It's a religion, and we all how fanatical people are about their religion.....
Now we know why Elon slowed down production.
Hi Dave “McFlurry”.
Great report. Thank you.
What next? A horseshit and piss battery.
No mention of how it will perform when driven/used the way an ICE vehicle is used. I.E. Keeping me toasty warm in winter and cool in summer and no mention of the effect, if any, of very cold weather. Are the folks in Boston going to be happy in the winter months? Once all the R&D has been done by the manufacturers, and paid for by the current batch of EV drivers, and the product is of similar quality/capability to the one they want to replace, I might just be enticed.
Yes like a bomb even hydrogen and fuel
Charging speed is reliant on the amount of electricity coming to the charger, just because a charger can put out a certain rate doesn't mean it will. It's like putting a larger diameter hose on your garden tap, your not going to get more water out of it!
And when governments lose the massive amounts of tax revenue from fossil fuels they are going to look at revenue from EV charging and ownership no doubt 😂
They will also see the return of tax subsidies they would no longer be receiving. "Tax subsidies for oil, gas and coal development are expected to reduce federal revenue by $12.9 billion from 2022 to 2026 "
How much tax revenue is being collected from fossil fuels? Out of interest is the government losing money? How much tax subsidies are going to EV and charging versus the taxes collected?
This will make a huge difference, charging time is far more important than range. I doubt if Tesla will ever offer a 1000Km range car if it can be charge faster. Why would you need that? The faster the charging rate, the fewer chargers you need at motorway services. Oil is doomed however you look at it. The end to end efficiency is terrible, and that alone is enough to kill them off. Fairly soon, you won't be able to make an ICE car as cheaply as a BEV. Batteries are only going to get more dense, faster charging, lighter and cheaper. Once battery costs are cheap, which they inevitably will be, you won't be able to get close to making an ICE engine and power train which is ludicrously complex by comparison.
The petrol guys will always need cobalt,unless they find a deposit of refined petrol...its OK Congo kids your jobs are safe...sorry. 😢
Your ‘it’s too good to be true’ battery talk is laughable.
A battery and the fuel isn't comparable in your comparison, saying if you could buy a fuel with 2x the range is comparable to charging with a new electricity that gives 2x the range, what you are comparing is the power plant, so your comparison is more relevant to changing the engine to give the same performance with 2x the efficiency 👍
Hello mate
Fossil fools 😂😂😂❤
There's room for both. All you haters who disparage either are the problem...
Wrong. Continued use of ICEs contributes to the global warming that is projected to reach 4 Deg C by the end of the century and make life for our grandchildren extremely difficult. EVs help to prevent this disaster.
Many rare earth materials are used in new battery technologies, including:
Cerium
Used in batteries and most devices with screens
Cobalt
Used in the cathodes of lithium-ion batteries to increase their energy density, capacity, voltage, and life cycles
Dysprosium
Used in the magnets of electric vehicle motors to increase their operating temperature and reliability
Indium
Used in zinc powders for alkaline batteries to increase their shelf life and slow down spontaneous discharge during storage
Neodymium
Used in the magnets of electric vehicle motors to keep them turning
Terbium
Used to increase the heat resistance of magnets in electric vehicle motors
Yttrium
Used as a doping agent in lithium iron phosphate batteries to strengthen their iron phosphate molecular structure
Most of the negativity towards evs are from those who are too old for the tech...too ignorant for any need to change...too stubborn to listen any reason...too ignorant to do any real research....let them fall...2035
The road to bankrupt a country l😮go net zero.
What about being confined in a EMF bomb equivalent to standing in front of a microwave, or do these new batteries eliminate that too???
You mean the same emf Bomb you put right next to your ear everytime you make a phone call? Or the emf that you placed in your lounge (wireless route) and sit in for hours every day??
If you're talking directly to me-NO. I do not sleep with my phone and use speaker phone 99% of the time. Neither do I stream. No WIFI in my house. CABLE TV and connection to my router. No microwave oven. And even if you added all those up they wouldn't come close to the accumulative affect of daily driving an EV
You need to learn some physics before spouting nonsense.
@@roberthart9886You poor deluded sod
@@rogerphelps9939 You only know to regurgitate the information they want you to know to pass THEIR knowledge tests
Increasing the speed of charging does nothing to counter the reality that building EV's and disposing/recycling EV's at the end of their useful lives is many times more damaging to the environment than ICE vehicles as well as the fact that in most countries EV's are nothing more than remote combustion vehicles generating many times more pollutants than ICE vehicles. Besides, I will believe this familiar "miracle" in battery production, fast charging, and "incredible range" when I see it working in reality. China has a long history of selling more vaporware than Elon Musk ever dreamed of in his wildest imagination.
You are badly misinformed. Please get up to date
So this will destroy the petrochemical industry. 👍🏻
The problem with EVs is you save too much money. My Mrs has a monthly spending spree on stuff for the house that usually involves some level of DIY...going back to a fossil fool car🤣
What was the face Dave? I thought it was only the kiddy bitcoin influencers that did this? They all look like a blowup doll too
Is Exxon Mobile paying you to be this annoying?
DAve mate, EV production is not sustainable, one fact to replace all ICE vehicles, you will need more copper than the total that humanity has ever mined!
That isn't true. The tech will improve to the point where most people will not even own a vehicle as they will just use a self-drive ride-share car. Many of the younger generation have no intention of even getting a drivers license.
Plenty of copper is becoming available as it is being replaced by fibre in telecoms links.
When by using EVs, the overlords will interfere with internal combustion engines and fuel supply that delivers your food and everything you seem to enjoy, it will make no difference whether you cannot drive your EV or your ICE vehicle.
from dave to dave your full of crap