St Christopher is my patron for this very reason. Not the dog head, but the fact that he was strange and an outsider and he wasn't good at prayers and asceticism, but still had something to offer to God because we all have something to offer
The icon is so important because it shows we all have a place in the Christian story. It makes me think of the ideas of ‘hounds of God’. Werewolves that kill monsters. And yes. It’s strangeness traveled out into the dark and brought me back and with another Saint, right to the doors of an Orthodox Church.
Saint Christopher has been important in my writing recently. I'd say I'm surprised at the perfect timing of this clip, but by this point I've come to expect it.
This icon of Saint Christopher speaks to me at this point in my life, as much of the ministry in which I walk involves interaction and community with persons quite on the fringes of society. Thank you for this clip.
I bought a necklace with this version of St Christopher right after watching. I got the notification that it arrived right before driving home through a stormy night with flash-flood level rainfall. It reminded me to pray to him for guidance through the storm, as he is the patron saint of travelers. I got home safe without issue thank the Lord and his 'monstrous' servant
The relationship between animality and the strange and the foreigner is embedded in human consciousness and is inevitable. Censuring this icon doesn't change that. That reality will rear its head and will cause trouble, because we've pretended it doesn't exist, and now don't know how to deal with it. The story of St Christopher and his icon actually help us deal with that aspect of reality in the proper way and understand how even the strange can participate in the Kingdom of God.
It's so astonishing that I didn't see this already as why st christopher resonates so much with me... Outcast, outside, hoping to be brought home Hurts. Many of us are dogs at the table
I followed philosophy, until I found it was enslaved to science, then I followed science, until I realized scientists serve a god, one of the many demons that have their place in the symbolic world. Christ is king.
"...we decree that the figure in human form of the Lamb who taketh away the sin of the world, Christ our God, be henceforth exhibited in images, instead of the ancient lamb, so that all may understand by means of it the depths of the humiliation of the Word of God, and that we may recall to our memory his conversation in the flesh, his passion and salutary death, and his redemption which was wrought for the whole world." Trullo, LXXXII If Christ is not to be depicted by way of allegorical, animal form, who is in truth the Lamb of God, much less should such innovations be rendered in regard to the saints who are accorded no such allegory by canonical witness.
Anyway, the Orthodox West partly disagreed, and still does to this day. I think Icons where Christ is Holding a lamb, instead of showing JUST a lamb as if it were He, THAT is a good compromise.
Did we read the same quote? It literally says right there that the humanization of Christ was a HUMILIATION for the Logos, it DIMINISHED him from his true form as the Lamb. The Lamb isn't an "allegory," and I hold that neither is St Christopher
@@papercut7141His true form is as a man. Do you not understand the incarnation? He was born as a man to Woman. The Lamb is a metaphor and they are saying in the quote here that they want to show Him in all his humility....as Paul spoke of in Phil 2:6-8. Best to you.
Russia has always had trouble grasping the Western Rite emphasis on gargoyles in second and third wave gothic architecture for this reason. This is why ROCOR Hardliners only allow their Western Rite Vicariate to use first wave Gothic style which hadn’t fully developed Gargoyle symbolism yet; that it preceded the schism and the others afterwards, is just an excuse. Second wave prototypes were already underway by 1045, so its a lame excuse. I’m glad to be Western under Antioch’s more subtle guidance.
No issues with that as far as I’m aware. Most if not all accounts I’ve read describe him as 5 cubits (7.5 feet or 2.3 m) tall and immensely strong (enough to subdue 200 Roman soldiers). But these descriptions also add to his strangeness.
@@LiamStackLiamStackLiamStack I mean, what's the symbolism of Saint Christopher as a giant... is it the same as the hybrid? I ask because from where I am from the icon of Saint Christopher is typically the one where he appears as a giant carrying a baby and not the one with the dog head.
I don't know if a dog headed man is all that strange. There are people with genetic disorders called hypertrichosis that cause them to look like werewolves with hair all over their face and bodies. Maybe St. Christopher had that disorder?
The death of Saint Christopher was guillentined, bc 40 arrows from 40 archers were supposed to kill him yet dropped except for 1 and all didn't touch Christopher, that one arrow tho went for the king in his eye. If you read the true real whole story you'll see that Christopher learned the law and spreaded a revolution or atleast tried, thats why the church etc killed him aka King james killed saint christopher
The more _exclusively_ 'rational' faith is _framed_ , the emptier the churches... If God would have wanted it so, he would have inspired a _manual_ to save mankind, instead of sending his son - whose _life_ was an _image_ of divine grace...
You're an acquired taste but sometimes you just go a little too far. This is a totally Pagan image and I'm actually very surprised that you made it. Of all the things you as a creative and very intelligent artist that speaks multiple languages and understands multiple cultures should be able to come up with something that doesn't look like totally Pagan art. This is probably why the Baptist absolutely just disregarded all of this stuff and said you know what we can't count on these guys to actually make religious art and sometimes this stuff comes out looking like something absolutely crazy. Following you for six months, or maybe less, not anymore buddy. Unsubscribed
Baptists will call anything pagan art.(also, what baptist? I wanna see the whole video/discussion/thing) If it represents something good, it doesn't matter if it "looks pagan"... Paganism wasn't made by the devil(former angel, btw) in a vaccuum, he took *incomplete truth* and mixed in some lies. So of course some good things will "look pagan", cause it's that truth. You guys just give the devil complete authority over stuff God created and had a purpose for.
I don't see the art as pagan. With respect, your response directly highlights Jonathan's point on how the stranger can be misunderstood from a non-symbolic perspective.
Christianity is a bad market for artists. This is a problem if people want Christianity to be part of our culture. Even Johnathan has problems with maybe all Christian art from the Renaissance. I think one reason why Jesus said He forgives blasphemy is to help people not worry about these anxieties over illustration. ... so that Christianity can be a part of our culture. I talked to a pastor that was horrified by illustrations of Jesus with His eyes closed. This leads to artists self cancelling work FOR Christians... because the Christians will get mad.
St Christopher is my patron for this very reason. Not the dog head, but the fact that he was strange and an outsider and he wasn't good at prayers and asceticism, but still had something to offer to God because we all have something to offer
The icon is so important because it shows we all have a place in the Christian story. It makes me think of the ideas of ‘hounds of God’. Werewolves that kill monsters.
And yes. It’s strangeness traveled out into the dark and brought me back and with another Saint, right to the doors of an Orthodox Church.
If I may, which other Saint?
@@micahmueller5186 St Cyprian of Antioch.
I latch onto Saint Christopher exactly because of his monster
Saint Christopher has been important in my writing recently. I'd say I'm surprised at the perfect timing of this clip, but by this point I've come to expect it.
This icon of Saint Christopher speaks to me at this point in my life, as much of the ministry in which I walk involves interaction and community with persons quite on the fringes of society. Thank you for this clip.
I bought a necklace with this version of St Christopher right after watching. I got the notification that it arrived right before driving home through a stormy night with flash-flood level rainfall. It reminded me to pray to him for guidance through the storm, as he is the patron saint of travelers. I got home safe without issue thank the Lord and his 'monstrous' servant
The relationship between animality and the strange and the foreigner is embedded in human consciousness and is inevitable. Censuring this icon doesn't change that. That reality will rear its head and will cause trouble, because we've pretended it doesn't exist, and now don't know how to deal with it.
The story of St Christopher and his icon actually help us deal with that aspect of reality in the proper way and understand how even the strange can participate in the Kingdom of God.
It's so astonishing that I didn't see this already as why st christopher resonates so much with me... Outcast, outside, hoping to be brought home
Hurts. Many of us are dogs at the table
I love Saint Christopher. And I think he is gonna be really important
I followed philosophy, until I found it was enslaved to science, then I followed science, until I realized scientists serve a god, one of the many demons that have their place in the symbolic world.
Christ is king.
Philosophy isnt enslaved to science. Unless you're just referring to modern philosophy.
@@MangyPL you basically have to be self taught via such classical thinkers as GK Chesterton to become a philosopher free of the modernist taint.
was hoping to see this clip!
"...we decree that the figure in human form of the Lamb who taketh away the sin of the world, Christ our God, be henceforth exhibited in images, instead of the ancient lamb, so that all may understand by means of it the depths of the humiliation of the Word of God, and that we may recall to our memory his conversation in the flesh, his passion and salutary death, and his redemption which was wrought for the whole world."
Trullo, LXXXII
If Christ is not to be depicted by way of allegorical, animal form, who is in truth the Lamb of God, much less should such innovations be rendered in regard to the saints who are accorded no such allegory by canonical witness.
What if Christopher really IS a “Cynocephalic”?
Anyway, the Orthodox West partly disagreed, and still does to this day. I think Icons where Christ is Holding a lamb, instead of showing JUST a lamb as if it were He, THAT is a good compromise.
Did we read the same quote? It literally says right there that the humanization of Christ was a HUMILIATION for the Logos, it DIMINISHED him from his true form as the Lamb.
The Lamb isn't an "allegory," and I hold that neither is St Christopher
@@papercut7141His true form is as a man. Do you not understand the incarnation? He was born as a man to Woman. The Lamb is a metaphor and they are saying in the quote here that they want to show Him in all his humility....as Paul spoke of in Phil 2:6-8.
Best to you.
How should we protect ourselves from the encounter with the strange?
What is the icon being referred to?
Russia has always had trouble grasping the Western Rite emphasis on gargoyles in second and third wave gothic architecture for this reason. This is why ROCOR Hardliners only allow their Western Rite Vicariate to use first wave Gothic style which hadn’t fully developed Gargoyle symbolism yet; that it preceded the schism and the others afterwards, is just an excuse. Second wave prototypes were already underway by 1045, so its a lame excuse. I’m glad to be Western under Antioch’s more subtle guidance.
What about St. Christopher as a giant?
No issues with that as far as I’m aware. Most if not all accounts I’ve read describe him as 5 cubits (7.5 feet or 2.3 m) tall and immensely strong (enough to subdue 200 Roman soldiers). But these descriptions also add to his strangeness.
@@LiamStackLiamStackLiamStack I mean, what's the symbolism of Saint Christopher as a giant... is it the same as the hybrid? I ask because from where I am from the icon of Saint Christopher is typically the one where he appears as a giant carrying a baby and not the one with the dog head.
@@RodrigoMera oh, as far as I can tell that’s based on the story of his life. He WAS a giant so he is shown as one in the icons
I don't know if a dog headed man is all that strange. There are people with genetic disorders called hypertrichosis that cause them to look like werewolves with hair all over their face and bodies. Maybe St. Christopher had that disorder?
The death of Saint Christopher was guillentined, bc 40 arrows from 40 archers were supposed to kill him yet dropped except for 1 and all didn't touch Christopher, that one arrow tho went for the king in his eye. If you read the true real whole story you'll see that Christopher learned the law and spreaded a revolution or atleast tried, thats why the church etc killed him aka King james killed saint christopher
Love it
Who is his bishop?
Who is man's best friend?
What about Hindu Gods as pure symbolism
The more _exclusively_ 'rational' faith is _framed_ , the emptier the churches...
If God would have wanted it so, he would have inspired a _manual_ to save mankind, instead of sending his son - whose _life_ was an _image_ of divine grace...
So good.
Ads curse u
You're an acquired taste but sometimes you just go a little too far. This is a totally Pagan image and I'm actually very surprised that you made it. Of all the things you as a creative and very intelligent artist that speaks multiple languages and understands multiple cultures should be able to come up with something that doesn't look like totally Pagan art. This is probably why the Baptist absolutely just disregarded all of this stuff and said you know what we can't count on these guys to actually make religious art and sometimes this stuff comes out looking like something absolutely crazy. Following you for six months, or maybe less, not anymore buddy. Unsubscribed
Baptists will call anything pagan art.(also, what baptist? I wanna see the whole video/discussion/thing) If it represents something good, it doesn't matter if it "looks pagan"... Paganism wasn't made by the devil(former angel, btw) in a vaccuum, he took *incomplete truth* and mixed in some lies. So of course some good things will "look pagan", cause it's that truth. You guys just give the devil complete authority over stuff God created and had a purpose for.
I don't see the art as pagan. With respect, your response directly highlights Jonathan's point on how the stranger can be misunderstood from a non-symbolic perspective.
So no one with Hypertrichosis or similar deformity can be a Saint?
Christianity is a bad market for artists. This is a problem if people want Christianity to be part of our culture. Even Johnathan has problems with maybe all Christian art from the Renaissance.
I think one reason why Jesus said He forgives blasphemy is to help people not worry about these anxieties over illustration. ... so that Christianity can be a part of our culture.
I talked to a pastor that was horrified by illustrations of Jesus with His eyes closed.
This leads to artists self cancelling work FOR Christians... because the Christians will get mad.
Iconography isn't art. It's not just some pretty painting to look at and admire.