Amplifier Repair 10,000Wrms Ground Zero 10K subwoofer amp
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- Опубліковано 13 гру 2017
- Lots of tips and things to be learnt in this video, shes a long one but well worth it! One of the bigger amps ive worked on, this had a dead output section, and quite a few things went down as a result - output fets, inductors. regulators, driver IC chips, and diodes. Thankfully the power supply section was intact as i would NOT look forward to replacing that horrific number of 064N parts...
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I hope the owner appreciates all the work and pays for the pleasure of having it working again.
I started of in the early 90's in the repair trade, doing tv and videos..
And moved on to audio large pa amps/ valve gear etc.. built some many amplifiers over the years.
There was no you tube vids.back then. These vidz are full of info but the main thing to new starts is you must learn basic electronics before taking on peoples equipment as it can be costly if you someone's unit up!!!
Another great informative video. I have fixed a couple more amps since watching your videos. Gives me inspiration to dig into my pile of amps that need repair. On a side note, I use a pair of channel locking pliers to install the hold down clamps on the mosfets. Makes the job quicker and easier.
When you were contemplating to power it up on low voltage or pull all the FETs I was thinking pull them all save yourself the headaches and sure enough you pulled them. Great channel.
Another fantastic video as ever. I can't imagine how much time the editing takes, let alone the actual repair
jesus you kick ass. I learn so much from your videos, it's awesome. Thank you!!!
Just stumbled across your channel. So glad I did. Thanks for all your hard work!
Awesome video! I'm getting ready to start a optidrive 7k and this video will serve me well. Thank you very much! Thanks for going in depth on the driver board also.
As an electrical engineering student and subwoofer aficionado, I love these videos. Also, had no idea you could solder/desolder with a hot air gun. No more putting boards in a toaster for me!
You never mention what price a repair like this finally cost after all the fets and extras but a great video and I enjoyed learning from you
Barevids you the real MVP bro, the work and time you give to make these videos helps new amp repair enthusiasts more than you can imagine. Thank you for always sharing and doing a great job of explaining everything you do. One thing I've noticed is from what I can tell most amps you repair are class d ,and I love your video that explains the workings of class d amplifiers, do you believe you will ever do videos on other class amplifiers, and will you explain their operation in the same way?
Ill be uploading a class G repair soon on a home theater sub amp, but i dont fully understand it so not as well explained haha! eventually yes, but all my experience so far has been with class D so thats what i can explain the best
superb vid sam! yet again! xx
Ithink those sparkly heatsink thermal pads might be made of mica, used to be used a lot back in the day, not as thermally conductive as modern pads and have to be used with thermal compound, but heat resistant and a good insulator. Great vid, thanks!
Thanks for another great video! This was very informative and for someone to give back to the craft like you do is extraordinary. Can't wait to get my hands on this again. Don't sweat the haters commenting on here. There will always be little boys hiding behind their keyboards thinking that they could have done it better or faster but they or will always be insignificant pieces of trash. Seems like it's the price for being a nice person. Keep up the great work. Love your FB page too!
May I recommend an incadescent light bulb to discharge the capacitor banks? Instant visual confirmation of near-zero discharge. And,the filament resistance goes down as it cools off. Best of both worlds!
Or he could use a DMM with a LowZ Volt mode to discharge it.
loving these kind of vids! thumps up
greetings from Holland xD
Awesome vid!! If you moved to the states you'd be so so busy,there's so much work for amp techs here just where I am in boston
Wish I could say the same about the UK lol
Awesome man keep em coming!!
4:29 - Hi Sam, those diodes on the driver board are not zener diodes, they are high speed diodes used to charge pump those caps on the high side driver so you have a floating supply to power the high side driver circuit. A better substitute for the IRS21844S is the FAN7393A, it has same pinouts, but has slightly higher source and sink drive capability of 2.5A as well as having rise and fall times, faster with less delays. So you could use MOSFETs with slightly bigger gate charge and get the benefits of a MOSFET with lower Rds making the amp output stage more robust and efficient, if you so wish.
Thats fucking amazing advice buddy thank you so much! I will certainly look into those ICs! And thanks for the correction on the diodes :)
I think the reason its not one board is because the panels that the PCB factory makes only go so big, and if it not hand made it has to fit into a pick and place machine and wave or other soldering machine. Those boards as they are, are really big.
Hi, I've been following your videos for a while and you are probably the most knowledgeable amplifier repair guy I've ever seen lol if I may, I would like to ask your advice on starsound 15k's I have. I recently strapped them and found that when I play them separately they play loud and nice but when they strapped it is significantly softer. I called Starsound for advice and they advised that it's my setup, I.e. connections or wires. I would appreciate if you could give me some direction, if they need repair or is it actually my setup. Thanking you in advance and thank you for your informative vids. Wafiq
glad your going forward
I'm watching this repair video..there is a part were your replacing a low reading inductor...your comment of not sure of colour codes on the resistors!! There a many ways to remember the code. The smds types are as is.
Good hard working man there..
great repair nice work just hint you can use with power supply 70AH battery so you can load amp at full power for decent amount of time to test full power hope this help.
Hosam Kyali batteries supply too much burst current, the whole idea of the small supply is to only just power it up, so if there are any faults then the supply trips instantly. a battery wouldn't trip, and cause damage.
barevids sure true l mention it as supply after repair test nice work again ^^
Very interesting video. Ever considered using a FLIR camera for observing temps?
The hight side driver's wave have amplitudes in the order of the rails voltages (it goes from -vcc to vcc+10V), that's not the case of the low side (it is between -vcc and -vcc+10V approximately). So, whit that scale, you wont see it in the scope. Sorry for my bad English.
You should try get your power supply floating instead of the scope, its meant to safer I've heard. Would take a bigger isolation transformer though..
irs 21844s : One channel of the drive is floating to drive the high side -- with an interlock signal return to make sure both channels never drive at the same time.
All is fine if you don't have any ground loops :) or stay rf currents activating the parts out of turn. Check for cold soldier joints that can rectify rf noise. Manufactures should twist any long leads from HF transformers. Of course actual drive transformers are expensive and engineers still think optical isolated drives to be unreliable. But on the other hand getting rid of ground loops (or depending on noisy ground returns) is part of best practices for low noise and reliability. It is no wonder these drivers commonly fail, working along side 'horse kick' currents.
Great video
NSV i love your videos :D
Yellow violet black silver, equates to 47 micro-microheneries. It's basically the same assigned numerical values and multiplies as the resistance colors, just denoting inductance. The measured lower DC resistance shows higher current handling capability. =)
Aha! Awesome, thank you!
any info you can give on where to find maybe a chart or website where we can figure out what the other colors are for us hard headed equipmentaly handicapped diy types
love ur vids
Wouldn't the casing of the power supply on your lap be a potential path to ground when your messing with the high voltage? just thinking if you happen to knock it with your hand while your poking around. Not a criticism, just genuinely interested. love your videos by the way, I have learned so much from you and i am really hooked on them.
Have you ever had hf runaway when powering up with open gates?
Been watching your vids for a while now I am hooked on T-line thx to you ..lol how can I send you a picture of my unique design I built .I'm sure you would be impressed and maybe have some input for me ..plz let me know
Great video! Have you ever repaired a "Soundigital" amplifier?. Im just wondering if it's even possible to repair them yourself since i've heard that in brazil, they make their own components for their amplifiers which makes it hard for hobbyists to repair them.
hello sir! I have a sounddigital in for repair at the moment. Yes, a headache, since they mask all the ICs and mosfet components, and will not release schematics or service manuals. Its a guessing game to get them up and running again!
Use Dow Corning 340. A toothpaste size tube should last you a lifetime.
For thermal pads I use Isostrate which has the paste already applied. They are made of polyimide (Kapton) which has a very low thermal resistance and are a hell of a lot cheaper than Silpads. You can make your own by buying a 25 um polyimide sheet and cutting a long strip and pasting it up manually.
Great advice! Thank you buddy!
Seriously man it’s a 10,000 watt amp, if you’re running that you aren’t concerned about cost... a few $100 is absolutely nothing at this level of power... just do a little math on how you’d get 12 thousand watts @ 12volts to it! Lol it’s insane.
your handheld has some interlace thing going on can you change a setting thats where the lines are coming from if you cant change it on camera you can probably do it post i know adobe premiere has a filter to fix it ............... thanks for the upload
yessir, i sorted the issue now! :)
I need my amp repaired.... It works but it's a shortage on one side, any suggestions? Its a Audiobahn A2300 hct
i have a question brother please? the 9k audio dc and conction in 12volt and esque the amp and well
Was the IC's on driver gone too? Or just 12VR ? Or both? Thanks.
I have a addictive audio fix 500.1 and about quarter volume the output start clipping terribly is it possible that the output fets shorting under a load everything else is okay I work on amplifiers but I swear I just can't figure this one out for squat because the output fets check good on my meter
Scott Miller probably electrical or your signal coming in to amp.
And the reason why the 2 boards are split is because the actual manufacturing of the circuit boards that's the Max size that they circuit boards can be manufactured in
Have the same now on the bench...Hate these big amps to work on with shit ton of a electric potential of 3 number figures...
Yes me too lol scary
That is scary...10KW!! Holy shit.
How much does it cost to fix an saz3500d
What is the capacitance and the voltage of the capacitor near the diode on the driver board?
If I lived closer, I would blow up some amps just to pay you to go through them lol
Can you fix a jbl a6000gti?
if you are not using thermal pads what do you put to isolate (electrically) the fets from the case with paste?
You must use pads.
Thx bro!
Hi I have the exact same amp that blew Mosfets as soon as I turned it on one day. Do you take repairs from hawaii?
I don't, sorry bud.
Yoo barvids I got a problem with my SD saz2500d the amp powers up perfectly but the problem started with THE gain level, the amp was working perfectly till it just stopped playing after i drove over a speed bump abit too hard lol. Not sure what the issue could be, but not looking to spend a huge amount of money on repairs. 😭😭😭
Look closely for a bad solder connection particularly on the bigger components, including gain potentiometer etc, or any riser boards like the driver board shown in this video.
9ff70f96 thanks mate
I have a 3k with dead output replaced mosfet now I'm getting a pop and when I turn power up it just changes into protect
Drive circuit is dead
@@barevids please tell me I can repair it and how
Ever think you might start working on home stereo receivers, solid state and tube amps? You'd still be using a lot of the same test equipment and similar troubleshooting concepts and the potential to expand your customer base. Or maybe just not interested?
definitely interested, will learn. only been doing this a year and all my business is car amps. Want to get more experienced before tackling life threatening voltages and working on amps with no real current limitation on fire up. Gets expensive real quick when x32 top hat fets blow up lol
Yeah, I hear that. I have little experience with car audio so I started watching your channel. I love building/restoring tube amps though, started a couple years ago. About a year ago while working on a power amp with 6L6 output tubes the back side of my hand was introduced to 320 plate voltage, I just wasn't being careful. It knocked me away but It felt like my hand was being crushed in a vise for a good 10 minutes. Got a new found respect for tube amps and bought an isolation transformer and variac combo unit lol. I still think I'm lucky to be here - this is the school of hard knocks
That thing is yuuge!
On a side note, where can I find replacement transformers? Specifically the two big ones in a PPI S2000.1D?
very hard, have to re-wind them instead!
Darth Immitis you will have to rewrap them or maby find a parts unit
barevids where do I get the wire for that type of thing?
A 10,000 Watt car audio amplifier? Proof positive that we're on the fast track to the world of Idiocracy!
Hey Dude,i just watched a video of yours about the DD Z 12",i have too ask how you got a 12",when the only thing the sell here in the United States is the Z 18?. any reply welcome???.
John Lundgren hi dude. the Z is available in 10,12,15,18 and 21 inches, in USA and Europe.
Hi Again,what is your name?. so i've been looking at DD's for about 3 yrs now,but i could careless about SPL,currently i drive a 2006 Honda Odysee Van,i have a cheap Pioneer single Din Deck with a Front USB plug just so i can play my PANDORA thru the 6 original Speakers,but i'm more about a clean sounding system.i just can't make up my mind when it comes too SUBS,i would prefer just 1 in a Box,with a DD amp 400 watts max. i'm 56 yrs old now,and i all i listen too is Deadmau5 and Skrillex ?. but i want a Sub from DD?.
Dud you rock
I’m surprised a ground zero messed up there usually solid amps. But low voltage, to much heat, to much gain creating heat can burn anything up so I’m about sure it’s not the amps fault.
It was definitely the amps fault, there's nothing special about these. Same as any other brand, very generic board.
Nice
How much cost such a repair ?
What are you constantly talking about grounded?
The 8 power supplies in the power amplifier should have galvanically isolated the primary (12V Input) and secondary (internal Voltage) sides. The PC power supply forms a second galvanic isolation.
The protective conductor from the power supply reaches your PC power supply housing and ends there. No voltage should be measured between the protective conductor and one of the PC power supply outputs - otherwise the power supply would be defective. Normally, no currents should flow on the protective conductor.
Everything else points to malfunctions.
The amplifier housing is normally internally connected to GND of the battery terminal by the screw connections and has nothing to to with the high voltage Rails of the AMP.
The ground connection of the RCA jacks would have to arrive at the 0V level (center tap) and also on the speaker terminals at minus and should have nothing else connection. This is the audio ground and is a part of the balanced power supply of a good amplifier.
This is one of the reasons why the operating instructions always warn against connecting the loudspeaker ground connection with the car body.
If this happens exactly, strong noise will be generated in the speakers, which may also depend on the engine speed.
I have never received an electric shock from a power amplifier just because I touched the + or - rail despite grounding strap ...
Some time ago I had a Toxic TN 1500 amplifier for repair. Repair costs 15 euros.
All 4 MOSFETs in the power supply completely burned off and two different output stage transistors with short circuit (positive rail to negative rail). After my repair she worked perfectly again.
When I asked how this happened:
A double fatboy subwoofer (two woofers with double voice coil) connected so that the impedance was only 1 ohm (all 4 voice coils in parallel). Definitely too low for this amplifier. Especially if you want it loud.
Weeks later I heard the same buddy with exaggerated bass in a parking lot. I wanted to listen to it more closely and sat in the car with him - with each bass beat the engine speed went extremely far down.
I asked him to give me a look. Again, the double Fatboy, this time a MAC audio power amp (any MPX ...), and again a daring and incomprehensible wiring of the individual voice coils. The power amp became unbelievably hot within a few seconds, even at low volume levels, and switched off. He had a woofer with his two voice coils on two different outputs (L and R, instead of two times L or R.) More I do not have to say - right?
Once properly wired and he suddenly has more power, but this time without affecting the engine speed and without the "power amp" shuts off. The AMP even stayed cool.
Stupid if you give the same speaker two different signals at once ...
Work with experts one time...
Where u located
Работа очень хорошая, но вы еще не профессионал)) но я думаю, что после хорошей практики у вас будет другой подход к ремонту усилителей! Больше всего убили, когда ты начал паять водителя. Так что не паяй. Не очень аккуратно и в 50% случаев после такого ремонта усилитель снова будет отремонтирован!
Have you ever blown a component while working on an amp? If so, how did it happen?
yeah of course! Havent done for a while, but its all part of repair. Youll see it happen in a video I am working on for a home theater plate amp!
the first amp i ever attempted repair on, over a year and a half ago, was a hifonics 1600w - fitted everything and turned it on with the big supply. the second the remote touched, the WHOLE THING went up in flames, no joke big fire, bangs, bit of fet shooting past my face and ash all in the air.... lol
home theater plate amp sounds mad exciting (for me). im calling TDA or LM chip amps. unless its a rare case of a half decent one with discrete transistors. which myself, have never seen
its a yamaha sw800, class G circuit, using 2sk2378 nd 2sj406 mosfet outputs, i replaced with fqp19n20 and 12p20 but i dont think its happy with them, going to try 640n/9640 tomorrow
I remember finishing a repair and after replacing the case saw a little whisker of a wire on top of the case. I had the amp running as I went to pick it up - maybe I exhaled, but it disappeared down through a cooling vent and before I could react, before I could think ' that surely won't do anything'..It exploded with a massive bang. Never let those little whisps of wire get near anything, I learnt a good lesson. That was a perfect example of Murphy's law, if anything can happen, it will. The law should be amended with, 'the smaller something is the more damage it will do'. (c)MDA2017 ;0)
don't you want to fix my amps I got like 5 or 6 that's broke
This looks exactly like my lanzar Opti 110001d
Hi we should help you as a token of appreciation as well.
1) When doing a repair on an amplifier ( especially in this state AND WITHOUT the heatsink), starting with the power supply section mount one fet per side, there is no need to fit them all during turn on testing or light weight testing, the reason why is if a shorts appears again, they will blow all of them really not a good feeling.
2) if you can, try to obtain a power supply or build a current limiter for the ATX one you using (its simple) , a current set to 1A (or less) will reduce blowing your amplifier, again especially an amplifier in this state (already repaired)
3) If you can, save up for a flir camera , this will root out any issues when it comes to verifying components heating up erraticly during repair before and after.
Just as an example:
Thus setting the current to 0.5A or 500mA will give the following:
Power = (I X V)... thus 0.5A * 12Vdc
Power = 6 Watts
Only 6-Watts of power can flow at any point during a short.
Enjoying the vids but please can you move the camera less
These things need PCB braces like what new graphics cards have
why did you fix that trace and not checked the regulator? trace didn't blow for no reason. Also that insulating material is NOT that great, you can go much much much better than that
First2ner oversight! if you can find me some that is as good which isn't twice the price, link me up buddy!
I guess it really depends, don't it? how much heat do you need to take away, for class D amp, you are not looking at that much, so that pad you got might even be good option. How many transistors can you cover with that sheet?
Something that would be cool, but I don't think anyone would use is aluminium oxide ceramic with its thermal conductivity of 15.06W/m.K, much better then pad, maybe more expensive, but probably harder to install and overkill?
I use aluminum oxide pad on a class A amp. They're rated at 20W/m.K. The TO-264 size costs 19 bucks for 100pcs from China. And you still need a bit amount of thermal paste to fill the pits on the metals for better thermal conductivity
what thermal paste do you use? standard one or some better?
Too bad those aluminum oxide pad are not on ebay (or cheap)
I use shin-etsu. Not the best but better than standard stuffs. I sometimes go with gelid gc extreme too
Barevids . I can't find proper resistors online. I need an 5.70ohm the resistor is green and its green violet gold gold. I can not find this resistor online. Can you give us an election parts source
That's because it's not a resistor lol. I explain these in many of my live streams. It's a little inductor. With that knowledge, search google for the inductor stripe colour code and you'll find the correct replacements.
barevids thank you.
Hello Sir, do you take cocaine before repairing your amplifiers? Nice video.
because video seems to be 4 times accelerated.
Behavior, speech, very speedly.
But Nothing serious from me, I was joking.
hahaha! Good job too, or this would be 4 hours! :D
CocktaiLMolotovX thats all ways fun I love snorting coke god I love that shit haunt been able to get good cocaine in years
power sound pwm no hifi
This amp built for people who wants quantity over quality. The switching speed is just 150kHz-ish.
don't you clean the flux off board ? I think cleaning up after soldering gives you a better chance of finding more fault .Or maybe you don't care as long as you get payed and leave it for the next tech ,not a great way to work :(
I am the next tech. I'm the only guy in the UK repairing these kinds of amps. The flux is no-clean and the customer prefers a cheaper repair bill from cutting unnecessary labour cleaning flux off hundreds of vias. Not once have I had a repair hindered by the presence of remaining flux. If anything it's a nice reminder as to what has been replaced in the past.
hi.i am from sa.do you have email ?i want some advice on subwoofer enclosure
Could not watch the video because of motion sickness :(
how where is the motion lol!?
I wonder. Maybe you're just located somewhere where there is a continuous earthquake or you have Parkinson disease of which i am sorry for XD
Camera is mounted on tripod, what are talking about?
Yikes what’s that like 140vac at 70 amps output... 1000A at 12v, lord you’d need 10 alternators to run that thing lol... huh did you say something haha... 4! count ‘em 4 four aught welding wires to carry that load lol.... ridiculous....
You seem to know a lot about amp repair but dont know anything about ESD or take any precautions against it.
Esd has no power here! 😁
Also, I'm just a random guy who decided to teach himself to repair this crap, never taken a single electronics class in my life. Just jamming along doing my thing, and seems to be going great. Thanks for watching!
@@barevids Im just telling you because mosfets are extremely sensitive to static and you are wearing a fuzzy sweater.Dude get an esd strap and ground yourself and no more 8.5 ohm RDS stuff :)
You aren’t serious about the price of the SIL pad are you? Lol, an install that could even come close to being able to use that much power is going to be at least $50,000 to $100,000 USD... think about it...just the wiring in the vehicle is going to be a couple hundred pounds (100kg) of copper... serval very expensive alternators using custom brackets with a large number of batteries and lots of engine mods to put the power to all the high output alternators is gonna be many many 1000s alone...
You are out of touch with the car audio market my friend
Probably so, I’m an old fart haha, build a van back in the 90s with 16 Rockford 15”s that was capable of 161db, if I remember it had 14 large marine deep cells, the 4 140amp alternators couldn’t keep the batteries topped off for long... it was designed for shows so it ran off a huge 240vac forklift charger, had to be plugged into the wall... So how are we supplying over 1000 amps @ 14vdc continually to the vehicle these days to achieve 10,000 watts RMS... I’m assuming that hasn’t got inexpensive. 4x 0/4 wire is about $20 per foot last I saw, and that’s just for the wire you need for that massive current draw...
It never delivers 10k in a vehicle scenario due to impedance rise of the reactive load (woofer). Though even if you wire it down so that it plays into 1ohm reactive, it isn't an issue. A typical vehicle with this amplifier installed would be running two 320a alternators, and lithium batteries, possibly with ultracapacitors (2000F+). It speaks true that for any high power car audio system that the alternators can never keep up with the constant power demand from the amplifier. So if demoing all day on music there will be a period of recharge required. But for competition use it is more than enough. 70mm welding cable is used, I got 55meters for £110, used. It's generally £6-8 a meter new. Anything larger than that has diminishing returns for the cost.
Thanks, it’s come along way since I was a player, we had no class D, no lithium cells... We used to build systems to play for hours riding around town, you don’t see that anymore, at least here in the states, it’s illegal now, sadly... Sure of course we aren’t talking DC power, so we assume the complex load is a resistor to make it more simple. The load could be close to Re ohms below the tuning of the box, say 10-25hz, for subs the inductive tail rise will normally be at frequencies above the low pass filter, but you do get a big bump in impedance at Fo, below Fo though you’ll be near Re until the I2R losses heat everything up and resistance increases. That’s why IEEE would recommend four 4 aught cables or 8 zero gage for that current, smaller cable will do it, but the voltage drops will be higher and it’ll get hot. Good stuff though, it’s the engineer in me that worries about such things lol...
dear, if you want to be able to repair in electronics enough that you begin to buy professional tools so that you throw these rusty irons
that you use
1
I'm a stupid looser can u give me a cheap amp
Looks like garbage design and some crappy parts, but that's most car audio amps.
Amateur!! Not 10,000 watts. Run in on SMD dyno and u will see. 10,000 would need huge heat sinks and not crappy mosfets
Please do your research before commenting. This amplifier mounts into a very large heatsink. It is around 70% efficient so heat generation is reduced. It uses an output section consisting of x32 FDA24N40F mosfets. Perhaps you should take a look at the datasheet for this mosfet and determine that the current handling capacity is sufficient for a true 10,000Wrms output? The rail voltages which the audio wave swings between are between +/-170-180v depending on input voltage. Taking into account voltage drop under load of the output rail, say with a drop to +/-160v, at 1ohm that allows for over 10,000Wrms of output. The power supply section of this amplifier is also horrifically large with x64 IRFP064N mosfets to create the +/-180v rails with significant current behind them.
Really dude? Ground Zero’s are strong ass amps and I know it is broke but abusing anything can cause failures.