What is the GREATEST Melee Set of All-Time? | Melee GOAT Pyramid
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Toph and HMW are back for another iteration of Melee GOAT pyramid! In this episode, they discuss what the greatest sets of all-time are.
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2 of my personal favorite sets are 1) chudat vs hugs at EVO 2015 for top 8 losers side where Chu made an insane 2 to 1 stock sopo comeback in game 3, forever sending Hugo into a notorious downward spiral of becoming melees punching bag. My other favorite set 2) Westballz fly amanita at Pats House 2, the one infamous for the game 5 nailbiter where wes went for the presumably guaranteed dair spike to close out the set but messed up the timing, sending fly back on stage and himself to SD. Coincidentally this set also involved some last stock sopo clutch shenanigans so many in an icees fanboy at heart LMAO. Overall these lists were an amazing treat for a long time viewer, can’t wait for more melee historían content from the goats toph and brandon 🤞🏻
Love the content. I do wish there was a small clip of each set tho to accompany what they were talking about.
Surprised to see neither have Mango Armada Genesis 3 grands. That was one of the hypest, most storied, most anticipated moments I can recall - the epic return of the Genesis series so many years later, a 1-1 tie for Genesis wins, Mango's plot armor to make an absurd losers run to meet Armada in grands, and an incredible set to battle it out for the Genesis victory tiebreaker. Also sparked the return of Genesis as a yearly entry, and now one of the most important tournaments every year
Leffen vs Armada in Winner's Semis at Big House 4 is one set I always think back to. This was when Leffen was red hot beating all the gods for the first time and he hits the craziest ledgedash where it looks like he teleports to mid stage on Pokemon Stadium to clutch Game 5 last stock.
The fact that grand finals wound up being Mang0 vs Mew2King is still crazy because after that win I thought it was Leffen's tourney for sure.
Mango and M2k being the hardest ppl for Leffen was so interesting cause Armada is usually people’s final boss
those videos are pretty good to teach some history for the uninitiated, i am grateful for them!
thank you guys for doing this. It gives me a bunch of sets I gotta watch, and a bunch to rewatch. Shoutouts to M2K v HBox at BH9 too. No spoilers if you haven't seen it. Vish and Chillin commentary was amazing.
I love how I can remember exactly where I was for almost all of these
Photographic memory + significant moment
I love the video, but wish it had some gameplay from some of the sets edited in here
I cant belive Axe vs Zain at Summit 9 didnt make either of your list
Hax vs Westballz at Super Nebulous 4 Winners Semis
Where my Armada vs Swedish Delight fans at
"A Yoshi !!!" Come on bro literally won the most biggest tournament ever with a F TIER BULLSHIT
I went back to watch mang0 v Armada at G1. As someone who was not involved in the melee scene back in the day, it’s very hard to appreciate. The vods are very dated. I can still appreciate the narrative with the context HMW and Toph give. But watching the set on it’s own… very underwhelming imo
Toph and Waff are legitimately the best Melee historians, I'm a Doc kid, played Melee back in the day 2002-2004 but not competitively just casually with friends, they way they reminisce and bring life to older sets and the passion they bring to the table always makes me contemplate picking up a gamecube controller again and giving it a go, I don't think there is any other eSport with such a deep and profound historical timeline and even though I really only started tuning in probably 2017-2018, the way they explore older Melee moments makes me feel like I was right there with them watching it. Keep up the great work guys, Melee will never die with guys like you keeping that passion and fire alive.
Amen bro same boat
in terms of recent sets, Cody vs Zain at Shine 2023 was insane and one of the best sets of 2023
hard agree. Also Cody vs zain at summit 12 was sick, especially the last game which was a near 4 stock
wizzy vs plup game 10 grands at riptide probably my favourtie set this year
@@PommiMaisteriI like plup
Yeah in terms of gameplay this is definitely way up there; probably pretty easily the highest level showcase we’ve ever gotten of one of the best and most storied character matchups in the game.
So many great sets that haven't been on their lists happend this or last year.
Almost every Jmook Hbox set last year, Cody vs Zain at G8, WF, LF and GF of last Apex, Zain vs Axe at Shine, Jmook vs Zain at G9, Wizzy vs Hbox, Jmook and Leffen at LACS, Cody vs mang0 at goml2022 and on and on.
I think we really are in the best age if it's about sets since everyone in the Top 30 can make it close now.
Axe vs Zain at summit 9. Axe with a reverse 3-0 and massive clutch.
OH that's a good one
Forgot about that one that was crazy.
OH my god, thank you Brandon for putting Mew2King vs. Armada in tier 2. I normally agree with toph's melee opinions but that felt way out of place in tier 5.
I'm surprised that PPMD vs Leffen at Apex 2015 isn't on here, that set stands out to me as one of the greats.
Agreed with both. Leffen feels underrepresented here. Honestly m2k-Leffen PAX would have made my tier 5.
Great vid. I'd add amsa m2k at kings of cali to the list. Combining both perceived skill of the players and perceived viability of the characters I dont think we've seen an upset like that before or since
Summit 11 grands:
Hypest rivalry since Mango Armada in grands
Validated Online results
Came right off the whole "Fox can't beat Marth" discourse
Game 10
Mango Losers run from round 1 of Summit
First Mango Summit W
Many gameplay highlights in the set itself (yes, you can say spaghetti, but there were also many great moments)
Twice on FD
First tournament back
Biggest prizepool in melee history
Came down to LAST STOCK 0% (this is the craziest part to me, you can't even script this shit)
Ken vs Isai at Moast is one of the biggest jumps in skill the game has ever seen. That’s kind of when it started to look like Melee had reached another form. It might look underwhelming today, but it was so important for the games progression in reaching its potential.
Agreed. That being said, there was a thought to be lost set between Ken & Isai at the first MLG in 2004 that I uploaded where Isai used Samus and most comments on it from people were surprised that for an old match the matches didn't seem too far removed from how Marth vs. Samus is played today.
I think Ken said it best during the Marth roundtable. If you have solid fundamentals that alone helps you win. You still need solid fundamentals to win in any era.
I can not believe that M2k vs Dashizwhiz in revival of melee match 4 did not make it to their lists. This set was simply perfect!
ya i always loved that set but i also feel like its kind of one of those sets when you rewatch it, its not as hype, back then though it had a big impact on the game
@@connord999 Yeah but Ken vs Bomb Soldier is there and it doesnt get any worse than that.
@@xXLuigiMaxXxthat set is amazing and was pivotal for the advancement of Falco
Yeaaah, that should be at minimum Tier 4, Tier 3 sounds far better
@@xXLuigiMaxXx??? show some respect to Falco’s rise ROFL
The narrative hasn't solidified around them yet but Cody Zain sets (Jmook certainly looking to enter the triangle) are just magical, and the only reason they aren't as individually memorable is because each and every one is so consistently crazy. The two most skilled players of all time, playing *the* match up of the modern era at the highest level ever seen, knowing each other better than any two evenly matched players have ever known each other, having adaptations to each other's adaptations to tech that no one else is doing, and somehow it's always close game 5? It's just not supposed to happen.
Cody Zain has the ability to take over so many spots on these pyramids.
Very true. Nearly every time these two play each other in bracket it’s hype af
Ever since summit 12 these 2 have made the hypest, highest level sets ever and I love seeing them every time, but especially the game 5s
Genesis 8,
Summit 14
The mirrored BoBC5 sets where they were the same but went the other way with a comeback on stadium game 5
Lacs5
Shine 23 grands
All bangers
And I do think there is a bit of a narrative since zain destroyed Cody for so long, and now there sets look like this.
For real, if I'm gonna miss a tourney, I always make sure to check the vods if Cody and Zain met in bracket, absolute bangers EVERYTIME
21:44 gonna have to fact check this because while it was true at the time: aMSa is 2 months older than mang0 and won Scuffed World Tour on December 18, 2022 and mang0's last major win was Mainstage 2022 which was 2 weeks prior to SCW which makes aMSa the oldest major winner ever
Will always love that mang0 leffen gen4 set. That clutch game 4. Mango somehow not dying from the top, then the most clutch up B in melee history. Scars commentary “that’s it”. Just for mango to fire right at big leff and then still had to find a way to clutch it out. Incredible moment.
Royal Flush gotta be higher man that firefox towards the end of game 5 set 1 still gives me goosebumps
Mang0 v Hbox in grand finals of Smash Con 2022 is the most slept on set in melee history I will die with this take
Hbox? Nah that should disqualify it
@@roachdogg-ex 🤓
@@clem5419 sit down lil bro
The one set that I would have personally included somewhere is Amsa vs. M2K at KoC 4. That was one of the formative sets of Amsa's career, not to mention was hype as shit, and kicked off my grueling Melee journey as a Yoshi main
genesis 4 mango leffen, easy. after that I would pick some lesser known sets and those would be..
savestate vs armada SSC 2018
drephen vs army genesis 7
salt vs blue summit 13
mango vs hbox reverse mains at summit
hbox ness vs armada young link apex
leffen vs prof at pxb
would have been cool to see clips of the matches as they were mentioned imo
Two of the most knowledgeable people of melee history!
I watched Mew2King’s Big House 9 come from behind victory over iBDW (at the time) . Barely clutched it out , using an empty hop to bait him and it worked. M2K slumped over the TV, emotionally exhausted . The crowd of 100 or so ppl went absolutely nuts . That’d be near the top of my pyramid …
if I was gonna make one of these my list would be so full of cody zain and jmook zain sets. like, every single set those fuckers play is just some of the best melee I've ever seen. that said, my #1 is for sure summit 11 grands. that set was nuts, mang0's entire run was nuts, and the narratives leading up to the event with all of quarantine were just unreal. like, I'm not even really a mang0 fan and I still think it's summit 11 and I don't think it's terribly close.
one set I'm surprised to not see anywhere on here though, is jmook cody genesis 9 grands. with jmook's breakout being at genesis the last year, it being sheik's first solo major win (and a supermajor at that), and both of their runs being really fucking good up to that point. like, idk I think that set was fire af
Summit 11 grands easy. Perfect combo of stakes, hype, amazing next level play, Rivalry at the highest level, and an awesome matchup.
Didn't even watch a second I completely agree
god zain played like shit though
Amazing next level play? That was one of the most spaghetti sets of all time
Summit 11 is mad overrated just because Mango pulled it off. But really Zain played super sloppy and wasnt top level. Theres much better sets where its like two players just taking turns converting each opening into a stock with a crazy combo
I felt this way until I watched it again. Tbh Zain just kinda threw. Was hype watching Mango bring it back though
I'm shocked that Ken has no sets on this list. Anaheim, New Garden, Moast, Game Over, there's a lot to choose from
I'd pick Anaheim if only for the exhaustion both Ken and PC had after the set finished (PC's hair looked like it hadn't been washed in a week, dude was sweating up a storm)
thank you for the great content as usual! would of been even cooler if the list of unique sets was in the description so a new player could go watch them one by one
i will do this today, thank you for the suggestion
goated thank you @@EzequielMPinedo
Not trying to be rude or anything, but has Toph said anything about some kind of medical issue like Parkinson's? He's jutting around a lot more than usual.
I've been wondering this for so long, I'm convinced everyone agreed not to talk about whatever it is
I just assumed it was his specific ticks for tourettes, hopefully not parksinsons.
He might have Tourettes brah.
did toph forget the camera was rolling or something
I wish there was a little window showing a brief moment of each set. Would take hella work but i know a lot of people here havent seen all of them and would appreciate it
hearing both of you talk about this game is super entertaining
Thank you Brave for supporting GG Melee. Downloaded it the other day and I'm very happy with it
how much did they pay you to say this
@@shavierlastnameenough to pay rent give this man a break 😭
Sad nobody had Chris Best vs Net1234 at Evo 2016 on their list, but good lists regardless.
It was an exhibition set with no real stakes or story line, but SFOP vs Magi at the golden gauntlet was maybe the best and most entertaining melee I've ever seen played.
Axe vs silent wolf at evo was the reason I started playing melee. But mango vs hbox evo 2013was so fucking sick oooooohhhhhh he read that roll. Or zain versus leffen at smashing and splash when zane took his 1st set ever off of leffer was also sick at. I just knew he was going to be one of the best after that set.
There should be a a list of links to all these sets somewhere online, like a melee history 101 for people getting into melee nowadays
toph puts the "active" in active listener.
Would love a top 5 doubles sets!
ok I just went and watched Leffen v. Armada at Paragon 2015, and yeah that was different.
P.S. shout out to VGBootCamp
mang0 vs. Leffen at genesis 4 is a huge set for me. It's peak Melee.
when scar screams ''THAT'S IT'' but then mang0 Up-Bs and then everybody screams. those moments are real melee
Chris Best vs. Net1234
Little late to the party here, but one I'd probably put on there in the lower tiers would be Wife vs Ken at mlg Atlanta 2005. It's just entertaining melee from a past era
I played smash bros casually as a kid. Recently my wife and I got a switch. We got 2 games, 1 being ultimate. We loved playing it, then we both watch the hbox documentary. We loved how cracked they played, which is why I got into melee hard. Smash summit 11 was hype that I watched it 3 times 😂
Having watched all of these (or close too), And having tuned in to many of them live I can say without a doubt melee became such a beautiful game, and has brought so much excitement and great memories to tons of people. Love these lists. Thank you!
Shocked genesis 2 grand finals didn't make the list
Zain Cody at shine def deserves to be up there as well
My sleeper pick is mango vs plup at LTC 2022 where mang pulled out the bird game 5 and is the only time the two have played in gf
Overall solid lists tho! Fun video :)
Really enjoyed doing this, and as someone who only got into melee around 2016, I haven't seen several of these sets and will watch them now. Thanks GG
Kinda shocked we dont see Mang0 v. Armada @ MLG. That was the first set where I cognitively recognized how far and away they both were over the competition, watching them powershield each other numerous times was insane.
One of my favorite sets ever is Hungrybox vs Amsa at Summit 6. Obviously it's a pool match so the stakes aren't exactly the highest but it was 30 minutes of what I could only describe as a war of attrition.
that one combo from the beast losers set rewired my entire brain
I doubt any of us will have a unanimous agreement on the GOAT set, but I think we could all agree that all of these sets are important because they show the history of the game. How people grew as players over their careers and how characters were utilized and reinvented such as aMSa with Yoshi. Zain has said part of him wanting to compete was seeing old melee sets from Ken and PPMD.
Plus, I enjoy looking back at old sets and seeing how although the play is "dated", the fundamentals of how some characters were played aren't grossly different or how some matchups are approached. Take Ken's Marth. In many ways even as far back as 2005 it's fundamentally comparable to someone like Zain's. But conversely it is crazy to watch old Yoshi games and then compare to aMSa's Yoshi now.
This was a great video - the analysis was on point as well, loved a lot of the things Waff said in regards to importance of sets.
The one set I think should definitely be in here is Ken vs PC Chris, when PC upset Ken for the first time. I think this was a historic set, probably the first you saw someone who was relatively unknown come up and topple the #1 and then establish themselves as a #1 contender going forward. I think it was incredibly important for the game and will always be looked back on for it's cultural impact and showcase of how the meta shifts from key gameplay decisions from tournament to tournament.
For the rivalry, having no Hbox vs Mang0 sets is kinda crazy
I feel like their sets usually involve one person washing the other
Mang0 vs. Zain at The Big House 9 takes the top spot for me. I was literally emotional after that set because I was so overwhelmed by how sick Melee is.
I think abate vs s2j and m2k vs dashizwiz both deserve mentions.
Great video. This is honestly making me emotional right now. I started watching melee competitively around 2014 and I can remember how I felt during a lot of these sets. Thanks for the nostalgia Toph and HMW!
One of my favorite sets was M2k vs Armada at SKTAR 3. If I remember correctly it was M2k's first tournament win over Armada, and he had insane comebacks two games in a row. It was clutch, and his popoff gave me goosebumps. It also features his fox, which we didn't get to see a lot of compared to his other characters. Very fun set, highly recommend to watch if you haven't seen it :)
I don't usually watch much Melee content that doesn't feature gameplay, but these GOAT Pyramids (and Melee Jeopardy) are prime entertainment - keep it up!
Where's chris best vs net123?
I am interested in this question!
No Mango vs Leffen Genesis 4??? Toph had the there hugging like a baby was saved from a river line.
No Wizzrobe vs Zain Genesis 5?? Where Vish was squawking like a bird and Wizzrobe fainted after he won and Gimr looked scared for Wizzys life 😂
I personally think Hbox vs Armada Evo 2016 was the absolute peak of Melee. It was the biggest stage the game has ever had, and on that stage were 10 straight games of the greatest Melee I've ever seen. Hungrybox pulling off the reset after being down a stock and heavily damaged is the definition of clutch. Now that Melee is no longer at Evo and we've entered a new generation of players, tournaments, and spectators, the game and scene are still as amazing as ever, but we are still chasing that lightning in a bottle that was Evo 2016 Grand Finals
Let's all be real though, Fly Amanita vs SilentWolf at Kings of Cali 3 is the greatest set of all time #SoPo
Hbox vs Armada GTX grands is underrated, Mew2king vs Armada Summit 6, and Plup vs Leffen Evo 2016
Hbox Armada GTX was really the establishment of Hbox starting his era right? Or symbolic of the start at least. It's been a minute lol
@@spacevadr10 Yeah pretty much, one his most clutch wins, bracket reset, down 3 stocks to 1, and he clutches it with a double roll read rest. Not really a Hbox fan but definitely one of his best wins ever imo
Most underrated set in my opinion is Captain Smuckers vs Zain at the Gang, grand finals. Zain wasn't the Zain he is now, but was already prob top 10/15 - had beaten Plup/Leffen/SFAT. Had just taken Wizzy to game 5 (infamous spaghetti game on Stadium).
Zain beats Smuckers 3-2 in Winners, Smuckers then beats Drephen, reverse 3-0s Crush and then 6-0s Zain in Grands to win the tourney. 9 straight games against the top 2 seeds who were huge favorites over him. One of the greatest Captain Falcon performances ever. Completely destroyed Zain.
Love these two, so insightful and introspective on the history of each set and the game itself. Really cool vid you guys
Two of favorites not listed are N0ne vs Lucky at GOML 2016, and Mew2King vs Leffen at PAX 2015. Especially from Leffen dominating Mew2King like a week before 😂
Yea like the comments have said a lot of sets missing out, that Mang0 Leff at Genesis, or m2k dashiz, lotta cody zain, cody zain genesis 8, m2k ibdw big house, armada hbox gtx, wizzrobe zain scl 2 - fantastic must watch, zain rishi big house 8, beast 7 armada leff, lacs5 cody leff grands, abate s2j big house, axe zain summit 9 swiss, zain wizzy genesis 5 losers round 5, etc
Must watches:
wizzrobe zain scl 2 - if it wasn't online it'd be a top 3 set, added narrative of wizzrobes first win on mang0 and beating the mang0 zain tier
goml 2022ibdw mang0 winner quarters - some of the greatest recoveries and recovery reads of all time - certified banger my personal favorite
zain rishi - best marth ditto you'll ever see - entertainment wise
abate s2j - crazy stuff
lacs 5 cody leff grands - most fun fox ditto with a bang
wtfox armada mang0 losers grands - best armada mang0
zain wizzy genesis 5 losers round 5 - wizzy faint
sfop magi golden gauntlet - best show match game 7 or Zain Moky game 9 apex salty suite
thinking about making a more definitive public playlist on these.
Zain vs. Mang0 Summit 11 will probably always be my number 1. The first big tournament after everyone was locked up in quarantine. Mang0 making a huge loser’s run. The final set coming down to the 2 best players from the online era. The 2 FD wins in a row by Mang0 to reset the bracket (including that disgusting last stock of game 5). The largest prize pool in Melee history. Last stock, game 10 with the most emotion I’ve ever seen from 2 players after a set. Mango getting his first ever Summit win. It was just so perfect. I was in a good mood for a full week after that set.
3. M2K Shiz - (Classic Era)
2. Mang0 Armada - Royal Flush 2017 (Gods Era)
1. Mang0 Zain - Smash Summit 11 (Modern Era)
It is a testament to Melee's great history how different these lists are and how many incredible sets couldn't fit.
Mang0 was struggling during the pandemic? excuse me? Each LACS that happened he was either 1 or 2 or in the top 5 of the event. This goes for every single online event that transpired during the pandemic. The storyline for Smash Summit 11 was not will Mang0 make it to grand finals? The storyline was "When Mang0 makes it to Grand Finals against Zain who will win?' Mango winning Smash summit 11 is not the equivalent of Kobe dropping 60 on his last game. Mango was grinding his ass of with the young crackheads and beat the shit out of them and won a championship. There is no basketball equivalent to that (but if there is tell me).
this is coming from someone who thinks mango zain at smash summit 11 is the best set ever sorry.
hold up Genesis 1 aint even the best Mango Armada Genesis what the fuck happened to Genesis 2 I get the Mango Rest in Genesis 1 but I think the Genesis 2 set as a whole is far better to watch than Genesis 1 where Mango hit a couple of rests and Armada folded like a sick note that you keep in your pocket for later on in the year.
M2K Armada Smash Con 2018 would've been the best ever had it gone to last stock. But even still it might be my fav.
Mango Zain from summit 11 was just too good tho...
Hugs amsa from genesis is an underrated pick that i think people forget about.. unfortunate ending but the set itself is a joy to watch and it was cool to see hugs finally get that top 8 he deserved!
This was a really great video! If there were highlights for each set, this video probably would be on the GOAT pyramid for melee youtube content lol. I understand it's a lot of extra work, but i think it would have made an extra amazing video!
Amsa vs. Mango grands at Big House 10 in terms of recent tourneys. Amazing combos on both sides and “A YYYYYYYYYOSHI” taking it all.
Was kinda surprised Wobbles v Hbox wasn't there since that was probably some butterfly effect type shit too. I mean does Hbox become a divine being 3-4 years earlier like damn this shit really makes me think about this game's history more than I usually do.
AmSa Mang0 big house 10 is definitely my goat. Both their runs were looking so good and the game 5 kinda blew my mind AmSa finally winning a major also helps it i think
I respect you can't make the whole pyramid mango vs armada sets for the sake of content but no Genesis 2 or 3 grand finals is crazy to me. G2 especially felt like such a turning point in the game's history
you could make this exact same video but just for mango sets pretty easily tbh
Mannnn Zain vs Mango Summit 11 just gives me pain. I feel like Zain just collapsed, and I can't even go back to watch it because I feel so bad for him lmao.
Mango Leffen Big House 4
Without watching, and without even thinking (lol), my instant reaction was Mango v Armada Royal Flush grand finals
Plup vs Hbox summit 9 is a personal favorite of mine. So many nail biting moments, a bracket reset and a some heart breaking losses. It never felt like there was a moment of calm and the tension kept building.
In terms of recent sets, Jmook Zain GF Collision 2023 or Cody Zain Shine 2023
Awesome video, was surprised not to see mango armada evo 2013 in their. I agree with Toph, summit 11 best set of all time
The biggest problem with melee right now is that zain mango summit 11 felt like the end of melee’s biggest storyline - everything after just feels like an epilogue
m2k vs Leffen where m2k flawlessly rinsed him with 3 different characters oughta be on there somewhere.
Fantastic lists y'all, couldn't agree more!
Yes, I loved the last GOAT Pyramid video! Putting Brandon and Toph's combined treasure trove of knowledge/experience to excellent use!
Not a single set from Genesis 3? I know mango got whooped in the second set of grands, but that first set was so plot armor filled for mango.
Something something net1234
Christopher Best
I don't like the Mango v Zain summit set. Ending on someone completely throwing it away ruins the moment
Cody v zain will take up like 5 of these slots before too long, the level of play is just so extremely juicy
Maybe I'm just a slippi kid but Summit 11 Grands was amazing