Drum Teacher Reaction & Analysis: GINGER BAKER | Cream - 'Toad' (Live at Royal Albert Hall 2005)
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- Опубліковано 25 бер 2023
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#drumteacher #reaction #gingerbaker
Ginger said "it's not how fast you play, it's what you say!"
He said a lot of nonsense
@@kippsguitar6539
This was'nt nonsense at all
@@kippsguitar6539not when it came to drumming. He only spoke the truth. Why are putting the man down, again! I'll wager u have some thing negative to say about Buddy Rich. How about Clapton & his politics? All I want to hear is their music.
I was at the Madison Square Garden show in 2005. It was a magical concert.
If I were to describe Ginger Baker:
1968: Monster drummer
2005: Master drummer
I’m so glad I got to witness my own personal GOAT play in person.
And yes, Baker considered himself a jazz drummer. He was offended if you called him a rock drummer.
_" He was offended if you called him a rock drummer."_
My guess is that Baker was offended when the wind changed direction.
,,Now watch the 1968 version, when he was younger,,,,The Greatests" ever.......and yes i use to drum...
This was late in the game for these guys and such a great revisit of what they had/did. Lost Jack and Ginger since. At his age, being a chain smoker etc., this is incredible. He played until the end. The Beware Mr. Baker documentary is a pretty cool look at Ginger.
His documentary is so good. The man was super intense, he wasn't real personable, but it was always about the music. He didn't give a damn about whether people liked him, he was about playing and being the best at what he did. The documentary let you get inside of his view of the world and it was a most fascinating ride. You weren't expected to like him, only to appreciate what he did and to that end I loved the film and enjoyed buying his records and following his career.
What was incredible about it? It's moderately clever incongruent drumming and time to put the kettle on
@@kippsguitar6539 Trolls be trollin'. Don't care.
@kippsguitar6539 this is the thing...for us Ginger Baker fans, u have to remember, there was little video of Ginger playing, let alone his solos ("Toad" WHLS OF FIRE album or "Do What U Like" BLIND FAITH). No 1 could compare w/ Ginger back in his heyday (60's to ?) So even tho this icon was way past his prime, this is a thrill for us old rock n rollers. We show respect cuz "We're not worthy".
Note: every hard core drummer out there was influenced by Mr. Baker, whether they acknowledged him or not. RIP, Ginger. U were the best at ur craft. Say "hi" to Jack... 😢
Ginger spent a lot of time in Lagos Nigeria early on Playing with and learning from musicians there.
three master musicians who were blessed with natural time. there's no one like them in their field.
My Dad was a big Cream fan, as am I. I took him to one of these Albert Hall shows. A great night. Toad was the highlight of the night for my Dad.
What a lucky man you are to take your dad and go see your favorite band !❤ Memory will remain !
These three musicians literally accompanied my whole life. As a student I saw the motion picture film about "CREAM‘s Last Concert" in a cinema and now, three decades or even more later, I watched their reunion concert on TV. In the meantime I myself played the drums in a band, finished my studies, worked all these years, but if one thing stayed the same, it was the powerful, everlasting music of CREAM. There were of course years in which I didn‘t turn on one single track of their albums, but whenever I heard 'Sweet Wine‘, 'I‘m So Glad', 'White Room', 'Badge' or even 'Toad' - it was always like coming home! So thank You very much for Your reaction video, Andrew, and see You in another reaction.
When drums become more than a rythm instrument and evolve into a melodic instrument.
That’s it 👌
This has soo much African drums vibes which ginger is a master at as long as jazz.
With the passing of Baker/2019, only Slowhand is left standing. RIP, Ginger...RIP, Jack
🙏💔
I once read that Cream was 2 jazz musicians and one rocker , Clapton.
Baker's major influence was London session drummer Phil Seaman. Not only a mentor, Seaman was also into the tom-heavy rhythmic afro-style playing that Baker absorbed and made his own with the Graham Bond Organisation and later with Cream.
The 'Toad' on 'Fresh Cream is great, with a killer drum sound that was very unique and a Baker trademark. Go listen, particularly to the air in the toms and the slap of the bass drums. Brilliant!
But a year prior to forming Cream (it was Ginger's band) and recording 'Fresh Cream', Baker recorded this track, 'Camels & Elephants' with the Graham Bond Organisation. The lineup of Bond on Hammond/sax/vocals; Jack Bruce on bass/harmonica/vocals; Dick Heckstall-Smith on saxes (having replaced guitarist John McLaughlin) did two albums in '65 before Baker, authorised by a drugged out Bond, fired Bruce and the band continued as a trio before Baker, not popular with his bandmates, decided to start his own band, which turned out to be Cream (name provided by an egotistical Clapton, who'd quit John Mayall's Bluesbreakers to join Baker, and then add Bruce).
With Baker's departure Bond and Heckstall-Smith enlisted Jon Hiseman, who would later take Mitch Mitchell's spot in Georgie Fame's band and then with Heckstall-Smith join John Mayall's Bluesbreakers for the 'Bare Wires' album prior to forming Colosseum, one of the earliest jazz-rock bands.
Here is 'Camels & Elephants'...the precursor to 'Toad'. ua-cam.com/video/lGCW_9J99fQ/v-deo.html
I saw Cream several times in the 60s and Bruce and Claptoon always left the stage when Baker played Toad. Creams extended inprovisation was a wll-know feature of the band and with Bakers solo there was always the name marker near the end the Bruce & Clapton would return. It was the same when Clapton played Stepping Out. Bruce and Baker left the stage although Baker came back after about 5minutes to keep the rhythm going
In the interview for this gig, Ginger talks about nerves and says he doesn’t get them, but rather the audience actually helps.
NICE
The live version of "Spoonful" on "Wheels of Fire" is some of the greatest drumming ever, IMO.
Anyone new to Ginger Baker should check out Ginger's work with Charlie Haden and Bill Frisell. They did an album together and played live and both are available on UA-cam.
I concour. "Do What U Like" on the BLIND FAITH album is also worth a review.
I recommend giving their Live versions of spoonful and crossroads. Some of the best stuff cream ever did
Live versions of Spoonful for the win!
Should have reviewed Toad -- "Live at the Fillmore." Baker was much younger and at the peak of his powers in this 1968 version. His sense of invention, while juggling polyrhythms, and using counterpoint was amazing.
Or the last show at RAH 1968
You can hear the a lot of jazz history in his playing. And also the african/latin influence - he actually moved to Africa in the early 70's and built a recording studio. Fela Kuti was a frequent collaborator.
So late into his career and this is still by far one of my favorite Ginger Baker moments!
One of Cream’s first Top-40 hits was “I’m so glad.” I had the 45 RPM, bought their first eponymous album I was 13 years old ($2 at Discount Records in San Jose, CA) and was wild about “Toad.” The second “Wheels of Fire” disc with Crossroads, Spoonful, Train Time and Toad are in the truck CD player. I love your breakdowns of the music to help me appreciate HOW it was so good.
Every group left the stage on a drum solo back then.. .the 3 piece band to mind was Groundhogs ...
Jethro tull also...but most bands did that
Enjoyed your review of my favorite drummer playing his Toad solo. I liked your analysis and comments. I'd like to see your A vs B with this 2005 and the 'original' live version of Toad on Cream's Wheels of Fire album 1968. Very similar elements.
Both Baker and Bruce were jazz musicians, they just told Clapton they were a rock band so he'd play with them.
This sounds very clean.... preferred His sixties solos very analog sound-skins held together with metal bands. Impressive interpretation here.
Excellent reaction Andrew.
Glad you liked it.
I didn't know he was doing a "splash" effect on the hi-hat. I didn't know that was possible.
Love Ginger's African rythym in this.
Excellent pick Richard. So glad you enjoyed it. Great one to dig into 💯👌
I heard you say one thing that sums up the whole show. Which I have listened to and watched and learned every guitar part over and over, swing. Ginger makes everything in every song on the whole concert swing. It’s fantastic, the whole thing and some of Eric’s best playing of his career. Swing.
hi mt loved this vid, ginger was a tore de force, the same as john Bonham fab was he.
What is so cool about this solo is it’s control. The control of a player who has nothing to prove. A lot of solos especially done by young musicians are teetering on the edge which is also cool but sometimes it loses the plot. This was story telling with drums. Ginger’s life story told in a solo.
The genius of Cream was, in short: listen to 'Passing the Time' studio version.. and then to the 11min live drumsolo, Baker made out of it.. and then also listen to ALL of their live stuff. 🤟👹❤
I was working (contractor) one time and an executive had rock poster on the wall. The one that caught my eye was "Cream Farewell Concert" in Philadelphia.
I told the guy I was there.
The Spectrum in S Phily. I was there with my future wife on our first date in the 2nd row for $6.50 a seat.
Great video. I heard a lot of Art Blakey's influence on that solo.
You should watch the documentary Beware of Mr Baker.
from a safe distance from the screen.....
That’s a great shirt that you’re wearing
I can hear a lot of Ginger’s influence on Neil Peart in this solo. Rush loved Cream (both being three pieces) and they covered Crossroads on their Feedback EP.
Now you are being silly, Peart on another planet, Peart got the African stuff from his trios to west Africa decades ago
@@kippsguitar6539
who's been silly? 🤦🤦
Watch his and Elven Jones drum battles, amongst others back in the real days of music…
ahhhh great video, I just really feel like the 1968 albert hall version was just so good. and wish more reacted to that version even if the video image is kinda shoddy.
Great stuff! I went through your reviews of Bonzo and found that you have not tried what I think is his best tune he recorded with Zeppelin and that is The Wanton Song. Off of the album Physical Graffiti. I really think you would enjoy the HELL out of it. Cheers! and oh wait, you might want to try Karn Evil 9 from Emerson, Lake and Palmer as well. Shit, rips it up!
If I recall (It was the 'sixties!) The original studio cut was just shy of twenty minutes! TBH the Albert Hall concerts were about recalling past glories of their respective youths.
Toad was the last song of the set, with an 11 minute Sunshine of your Love encore.
I really like NSU on "live Cream"
Much appreciated review & analysis Andrew.
I've been a fan of Ginger's drumming upon purchasing my first Cream album, back in the day.
And it has always been my desire to emulate him.
I'd listen then rush to my drums, and....well what's that say'n about close + cigar?!
Well this prompted me to set my patoot on that drum throne once again.
THX!
Just my opinion .....But if Cream stayed together , ZeppelIn would have gotten a run for their money.
He put the double kick on the map. He used Jazz, Big Band Swing, Afro'-beat rhythms . He was one of a kind. Always pissed off, drunk, stoned, and impossible to make any suggestions to. Just ask Clapton.
He had a tough life. Lost his dad at age 7 in WWII. His footprint left behind in music. is legendary. His son is a great drummer too
Great reaction to a great drummer from a great drummer.
Thanks Andrew
Cream were excellent despite the limitations of baker and his mad ego
@@kippsguitar6539 Ironically given how things played out, Cream was actually Ginger's band. His limitations weren't musical, though as the band became more successful and Jack Bruce's fortunes grew thanks to his songwriting credits (shared with Pete Brown, who was originally enlisted by Baker to help him with his own writing) he did become an emotional liability. He may not have had the most to gain had the band remained intact for at least a couple more years, though as time revealed, he had the most to lose.
G'day Mate! From across the "dutch" I am now 72 and grew up with Bluesbreakers, Cream, Derek and the Dominos etc etc. I found it interesting that. you noted "African" influences there. perhaps you should check out the period when Ginger hooked up with Fela Anikulapo Kuti They did produce one album together...Live...I have it on my shelves...Cheers!
Give a listen to Cream Wheels of Fire Live Toad from the 60's it is simply amazing!
I certainly appreciated your tie-in with jazz principles, but like any newbie listener you missed a lot of points: Ginger Baker was the world's best at playing any polyrhythm over any other one and he always knew exactly where he was. No other drummer could even try to sound as West African as he innately could do. I've seen him demonstrate all of this at a British drum academy. He could switch instantaneously from any time signature to another and land exactly where he would have been if he'd never done it. I've watched him in 'drum wars' with some of the best jazz drummers and he was hands down far better than they were, because he could go more places and do more things than they'd ever thought of trying. Buddy Rich thought his snare work would put him in the stars, but he wouldn't have lasted five minutes with Ginger Baker's overall versatility and mastery of multiple approaches and polyrhythms. Like a million jazz drummers you missed his double bass drum action, which despite what many of them have stated, cannot be attempted with a single bass drum Anyone who thinks you can do it with just one bass drum is simply delusional. Are there other great drummers out there? Absolutely, but they have to compete by being ideal for the musicians they're backing, because technically, they are light years away from where Ginger was long before he formed Cream. It was also Ginger's philosophy that the drummer should back the rest of the band when any song is being rendered. Are you someone who thinks the 'West African' drumming is obscure?: It is not, it's the basis for both jazz and rock/pop and country music. That is why it's so fundamental.
I have this on DVD reunion at Royal Albert Hall
so amazing... to think of that band back in the day... wow... and there is a reason this was so good so many years later, he makes it look almost effortless, and you can hear the different tribal beats, I don't hear this in metal which would be a great add for many metal drummers, of course the most tribal stuff would be Sepultura/Soulfly... but that is just my ear... as a guitar player
So this is when he's 65. The toad is a real song on an original studio album. Before the african immersion. He lived in south africa later in life. But check out cream - a three piece band. Then you will see a great version of ginger baker.
Entirely subjective topic: musicianship. For me there have been many good and great drummers and just a handful who had that something extra, Ginger had extra in spades (as did Bonzo, Buddy Rich, Carl Palmer and a few others), he could read and write music and compose which is something of a rarity nowadays, he always claimed to be a jazz drummer (all drummers are, at heart, they just don't know it!) yet performed in Blues, Rock, Prog and so many more style bands, Cream being the defining one for most people. Ginger didn't invent the drum solo, that's been around since probably the 1920s or 30s with the small bands, the solos expanded as the bands got bigger and then as the stadia got larger, Ginger probably was one of the first to produce a stadium solo - and you can bet that he'd gone through the orchestration and composed the motif for it, everything else would just be a reflection of how he felt on the night. Love him or hate him, Ginger was one of the greatest drummers who ever lived (nil points for arguing against a subjective assertion). His notorious ambivalence or disdain for other drummers is a factor of his upbringing, just post war South London when you had to fight for everything, if you couldn't do, make it, work it or hack it, you were a failure and second class or worse in the pecking order - Ginger had all of the tools but, he also had a railroad girder sized chip on his shoulder (as a drummer he never seemed to feel that he got the respect that he deserved). To broaden my subjective claims to the objective, just listen to interviews with anyone of substance in the world of professional music, contemporaneous or otherwise, there are very very few who would disagree with me.
OK, subjective or not, I'm ducking from incoming, over to you Andrew.
Absolutely subjective, I just don't get him and nobody can make excuses for his behaviour, thousands of better drummers although he was definitely better at solos than serving a band or a song but still don't get him at all and thought he got far more credit than he deserved due to his self publicism, same goes for Mr average Clapton but I still liked cream as a unit and sure it's subjective and I don't think Andrew rates him very highly
@@kippsguitar6539 Respect your view man. I can't excuse his behaviour towards other drummers (and some musicians) either, just give it some perspective - growing up in an immediate post war environment with your father in the services and his only message to you was basically, "If you want to survive, fight for everything", must have left a mark. I tend to agree about Eric though but, for me it became more noticeable as he got older (and lazier). That's the beauty of music, we all see and hear it differently through our own biases and filters.
I prefered his earlier, open bass drum sound - no muffling.
Yes, Baker's drum sound was very unique and readily identifiable during his Cream days. That, muffling aside, had much to do with the shallow depth of his bass drums.
Thanks for this. :o) GB remains a favorite. Dany Carey being a worthy successor.
I saw a doc -he said this into the camera, "i have perfect time". Also he said the guys who use the cymbals all the time were garbage or something similar. Lol
He did have great time. The legendary composer/conductor ('West Side Story' etc.) Leonard Bernstein gave a thumbs up for Cream, noting that 'their drummer has great time'.
Waiting for Yoyoka to take this one on.
I hear ya!
Theme On A Drum (TOAD)
He was a great drummer but I could never get past his attitude.
so much of that remind me of neil peart or was his from ginger baker ???
Oh ,, CMON. you THINK you've heard of the "song", Toad ?
He moved to Africa after Creme broke up to study their drumming and stayed there
this was always such a horrible "song" part, but such an INCREDIBLE solo.... this version particularly is one of my all time favorite drum solos of any genre by anybody at any time. Thank you for this
ua-cam.com/video/faXKUV3i6y4/v-deo.html
Link to a 1968 version of Toad. GB is out of his mind.
Ginger Baker himself hated analysing music. He called it ANAL-ysing music, or something like that.
Not like the original lacking???
why dont you stop the music about 40 more times!!!!!!!!!
Will do
Most boring drum solo ever.
I absolutely agree and Andrew seemed to judging by his underwhelming response
Well, I have lived long enough to see what really matters . He has got time & swing . And that’s what lacks in most drummers of today . Give me any song and I pick Gingers drumming . Its not what he plays but he can play a note and give a meaning to it. And that comes out to the audience cause they enjoy it as well. That your elevator doesn’t reach top floor yet musical wise , does not matter. You will learn in time .
Another boring look at me baker solo, incongruent and puzzling, trying to be impressed but just didn't get him, the ultimate angry show off and his own best fan
Says the entirtely mid grade nobody guitarist who nobody will ever hear of, or give a damn about. Clapton and Bruce had a mighty high opinion of Baker, or maybe you did not notice.
@@dr.threatening8622 because they (Clapton and Bruce,both overrated as well ) were shit scared of him, and says the host of this channel (watch his analysis of white room 4 months ago "I'm just not sure about ginger bakers drumming and he is competing with the band "), that was Andrew being diplomatic! He doesn't rate him either and I never did
@@dr.threatening8622 mid grade maybe but making a living playing and teaching for 40 years and it's really irrelevant who heard of me, actually met your Mr baker twice, so he had, not a nice man and not a great drummer but music is subjective and it's a good thing he inspired some people like you, enjoy
@@kippsguitar6539 The point is that your opinion is irrelevant. I'll stick with the opinion of the jazz school educated drum teacher and that of musicians far more talented than you. The only reason you had for boo-birding is to ride Ginger's coffin to get visits and views. If you don't like him, just click away.
No doubting he was a good musician but his attitude stunk. Very bitter man. He hated on so many other drummers
Never could allow myself to pay attention to the personal lives and attitudes of musicians. If I liked the music, I blocked that out. Yes… he was a bitter man who was somewhat of an asshole as a person… but I’ll wager that if you delve into the lives of some of your musical heroes, you might not like what you find. Can’t allow that to get in the way of my listening pleasure. 🤷🏻♂️
Can't forgive him for dissing BONHAM.....that's like dissing GOD😮
Yes good musician but nothing more
@@susannebass5503 it's more like Poseidon dissing Hermes
@@susannebass5503 he thanked bonham and moon in the forward of his book.