VENN vs Legere | Which is the best synthetic sax reed
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- Опубліковано 31 лип 2024
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Have you tried synthetic saxophone reeds? If you want to know which is the best synthetic sax reed, this video is for you!
In this synthetic reed review, I compare Légère Signature reeds with the new D’Addario Venn reeds.
If you’re wondering which reeds to buy, I answer questions such as how long synthetic reeds last, value for money, sound, and more.
I share why I’m a fan of synthetic reeds for my saxophones, and why I prefer them to cane reeds.
Your synthetic reed questions are answered - I hope this video helps you.
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Chapters:
0:00 - About this lesson
1:02 - Why learn about these reeds?
2:36 - PROs of VENN reeds
4:54 - CONs of VENN reeds
7:37 - Price of VENN vs Légère
8:34 - The Demos
10:03 - Wrapping Up!
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Hi Nigel - just wanted to say that I've been successfully adjusting Legere reeds for about 10 years now, the idea that you can't work on them is a (frustratingly) persistent myth. The only limitations are 1: no reed trimmers I've found are sharp enough to cut them, and 2: when working on the reed, only sand/scrape from the heart towards the tip, and the other direction results in fraying of the material.
You can adjust Legere reeds by dipping them in boiling water for 1 sec to soften them. You also get an exchange with every Legere Reed (up to 5 a year). So even if the reed is too soft to start with you can exchange it for a harder strength.
Dankeschön, ich wusste es nicht, geht es auch für Deutschland?
@@millasanosa36 I think so. I got a replacement in Nederland about 1,5 year ago. Even didn't have to return the wrong one, but that was because of Covid
Cheers DJ, top tip!
Seriously?! I LOVE Legere reeds, but I can’t find a sweet spot for my baritone. 2.5 is too soft and 2.75 is a little hard. Does a boil dip really work?
@@arrbeesaxI got it from this guy. I’ve done it on most of my Legere reeds.
ua-cam.com/video/GiA7NjRP2cY/v-deo.html
I would add that I always need to blow my Legere reeds in for quite a few days before I do this as I don’t want to over soften them because they are no use at all then.
I mark the tip of my legere reeds with a permanent marker, red works well, to help me contrast the reed with the mouthpiece for alignment.
Me too
internering video! I play American cut 3,5 for almost 2 years and could pick up the legere easy in your video :) I am willing to try the Venn, seems like an interesting option.
Very informative. I have played legere on,both sax and clarinet. I did not know about Venn reeds.
Great video, Sir Nigel. Thanks for sharing. I haven’t tried a Venn Reed yet, I will because of you. I haven’t had any problems aligning my Legere reeds because of them being transparent. I’ve found that Legere reeds are great! However, you have to have some patience. Everyone one wants to find a reed that’s just perfect without any effort, that’s not always possible. It took me a few months getting used to Legere reeds, afterwards it’s a no brainer. After playing Legere reeds for a year or more I decided to go back to trying cane reeds, I tried a couple brands too. The results were nightmarish. I went back to wasting 45 minutes just trying to find a reed that would play from my low Bb into the altissimo range. In under a minute I can easily set up and start playing with Legere reeds. I’ll still try other reeds, but for now, Legere reeds have got all my needs covered. Another thing I’ve found with Legere reeds is that after they are sort of worn, put them away for a month or two then play them again and it’s like magic, they play even sweeter.
Cheers Kadrian. Hope you are keeping well!
Thank you for the very informative video, i play Harry Hartmann reeds, and i am very satisfied with the results.🙂
Glad it was helpful Raymond. I haven’t tried the Harry Hartman reeds.
Hallo Mr what type of Harry Hartmann?
I Play carbon omyx med hard on tenor
Very nice flower duet!
Cheers Bruce.
I have been playing on the Legere American Cut for about 2 months. I really like. I found the 2.5 just a tad soft for my Jody Jazz Custom Dark 7*. Totally playable but I think I will order a 2.75. I picked up a Venn 2.5 and it took some time to get with it. It also hurt my mouth. It was very sharp on the edge. So with some sanding I got it to feel better. But Venn and I just don't get along all that well. I went back to Legere and I think I will stay there.
Good to experiment though Gary. I found them sharp on the edges too, especially on the narrower Jody Jazz DV mouthpiece.
I have to try Venn soon. I really like how it sounded when you played it. I have the Legere American Cut for alto. I enjoy playing on it and it is bright. However, I found it not very durable. I had the left corner bend on me after a week of playing, for some reason. I had sizing issues with it, as well. I normally play a Vandoren ZZ Alto 2.5. I read that I had to go down at least 1/4 down to match. I tried the 2.25, but that one was too hard. So, I went down to a 2.0 and it was perfect. I do want to compare the Venn vs Legere American Cut. If I have the funds, I'd throw in a Forestone Hinoki MS for a three-way comparison. I had a Hinoki Medium before. The sound was darker than my regular cane, but not overly dark. I felt I should have gone down to a Medium Soft (MS). My son, however, loved the M and used it mostly for Wind Ensemble and Marching Band. It lasted a long time.
I also play Legere 21/2 tenor signature in a community band.
Thanks for the clip. That was an interesting comparison. I quite like Legere, the venn not so much. Interesting that you mentioned the durability of synthetic reeds but I have a had a few issues with Legere American cut. I purchased 3 different strengths, which is not cheap and two of them have split. In both cases, it started with a line that could just be seen, but after a month or so they were done. I don’t play every single day, much as I would love to, but the reeds have lasted maybe 2-3 months each if I consider that I shared the time playing them.
How long are Legere reeds meant to last. In my mind I was expecting longer but maybe that is just in my mind😀
It’s complicated!
In order to compensate for my severe hearing loss I sent this via Bluetooth to my hearing aids which were set to the music mode. For me your playing on the Venn has more punch and yet gives off a more centered richness. I do detect a slight buzz in the higher range. I purchased two of these for my tenor and for my alto in both 2.5 and 2.0 strengths. The 2.5 was way too much for me with my Theo Wanne /Sig 7 mouthpiece. The 2.0 were just right. Until I saw your video I was not aware that these could be altered. I will give that a try. What is really interesting is that when I posted The Masquerade on the sax school website people told me that I had a dark smoky sound and that they really liked. You may have not heard my rendition but if you ever give it a listen you might notice that it does influence the way I sound. Of course that happened to be the type of sound I was seeking for the nature of this tune and I find it that for a more traditional jazz standard I get again a different sound from these Venn reeds. I align the Legere reeds by touch as much as sight!
I played Legere's for a year - on two occasions. The deal breaker for me was that one reed to the next was not all that consistent. I would have to try three or four to find one that played the way I wanted. Additionally (Maybe I am careless), any bend to the legere would render it unplayable. It's one thing to have a cane reed broken (as a cane reed player will always have more ready for action) but having a legere get bumped on the gig was a really big deal to me as I didn't always have another Legere that felt like the one I was playing. The Venn was a complete misfire for me. I found it edgy and inflexible (all this talk is of clarinet reeds BTW). It was disappointing, because I generally like D'addrio products.
Anyway - this was killer content. I was happy to see it and admire your playing and how you go about presenting the topic and making the video.
Interestingly, I had a different experience. The Legere's have been brighter than Venns. Altissimo is also more consistent on the Venn. This is after a struggling to find the right strength Venn, which was easier on Legere. I haven't worked with reedgeek or anything, so that is still to come.
Nigel, what happens to your Legere reeds after 3 months of playing …you say you need to replace them. Do they get soft or split? Thanks
I only enjoy cane reed and it can bring satisfaction to my practice and playing.
From all the videos I have seen on the new Venn reeds, they all sounded a bit too bright and buzzy for my tastes. With the strength being higher on the Venn reeds, it reminded me of trying Forestone white Bamboo synthetic reeds. I had the opposite issue with them, all strengths were too soft for me. I play Legere Signature reeds on alto and depending on the mouthpiece, on soprano sax either Legere European Cut clarinet 3.0 reeds on my Selmer Concept or other mouthpieces I either use American Cut 2.75 or Signature reeds 2.5 to 2.75.
Hey do you know of any company that might have a pack of different reeds because I only have like one school year of experience but didn't learn that much about reeds and there pretty expensive here
I too have been using Legérè Signature 2.75. So I am curious. What is the tip opening on your mouthpiece?
Venn does have an extra element in the tone that I find appealing. It’s in the center of the sound somehow if that makes sense, some frequencies in some ranges on the legere seem “hollow” to me in a way.
Hey Nigel. Yeah, the see-through legere made it a nightmare for me too. So much so that I gave up on them. I might have experimented longer otherwise.
It does make them tricky. I wonder how you would sound on the VENN Brendan.
what i do, is, i put my finger against the tipopening, than gently slide the reed towards my finger untill i feel a little touch, than i know that it is on the right position, if you little experiment with this method at home, with good visibility, after a while you should be good on a dark stage, hopes this helps, and with gently, i mean really gently, it is a reed after all
I'm new to synthetic reeds, but I personally like the Venn more than the Legere, but I got the American cut not the Signature. I went for the Venn 2.5 since I read how much stronger they are and its the perfect fit for me and I feel it sounds more like a reed and has more body in sound. I got a Legere American cut around 2.75 and to me its a lot weaker than what I wanted even though I used the strength chart. The Legere felt more bright but in a buzzy kind of way so I might try to get a 3 or 3.25 to try it one more time.
I have both American Cut and Signature Legeres. AM Cuts are not only designed to be significantly brighter, they're also much more responsive and free blowing. I believe this is why they feel weaker.
AM Cuts are perfect for adding brightness to a mouthpiece that's too dark.
If you wanna stick with Americans, I think you're right in going up to at least a 3. But if you like the Venn, I think you'd like the Signature cut a lot more. Your description of the Venn is how I describe Signatures
I am trying synthetic reeds for the first time, I,m using Venn at the moment and the great thing with the Venn reeds at the moment is that they are doing a replacement reed if you find that the one you ordered is either too soft or too hard and you get to keep the one you already bought and they send you another one of a different strength. Great or what :)
That is a good service for sure. Legere do a similar thing here in the UK. Hope you’re enjoy the VENN!
Hi Nigel, thanks for this nice comparaison video! I play legere reeds for a while too for all the reasons you mentioned about cane although I still use cane as I find legere reeds tone is thinner than cane. Anyways, very curious to try these Venn reeds now :) So for strength if I use a legere 2.75 on tenor, I understand you recommend a 2 for Venn? Thanks
Yes I’d start with a 2 Yanick and see how you get on. Thanks for watching.
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool cool thanks for the quick response!
Interesting. Thanks Nigel. I’ve got a bunch to review too at some stage. I guess I never thought of the Venn as bright- don’t know why, but yeh, they do sound brighter in the test. Tell you what though, I recorded a thing recently for my channel, and when I A/B-d the Venn with a cane, there was still no comparison in the studio. I was pretty gutted about that actually!!!
Cheers Jamie. Actually I think you sounded great on the VENN in your latest video. You play harder reeds than me though - perhaps that makes them more suitable for you?
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool yeh. Could be a factor! Those Venns are total planks - they need to readjust their numbering for sure.
Thanks for the video. I've been trying my best to like either synthetic reed. Played a Signature and talked myself into liking. Tried an American and it was too bright and buzzy plus didn't have the backbone in it to play altissimo. Had the old Venn, gave up on that. Just bought a new Venn. Yes they are harder than they advertise. Thanks for letting me know I can work on it, I'll keep trying to adjust. So what am I playing? Rigotti Queen and D'Addario Select Jazz. (Tenor). After playing a plastic reed for a while, then going back to cane I can't believe how much better cane works for me, even with the downsides. I'll keep working on the plastics though. BTW, Legere have a tendency to split on the tip, even with no mishandling. Bummer. And, to my ears and speakers I like your sound on the Venn just a bit better. 🎷👍
That’s interesting Alan.
I know this is a sax channel but wanted to chime in on the Venn reeds. I'm a clarinet player and I've been using the Legere European for a couple of years now. I've tried both the first and 2nd gen Venn and I agree, whatever strength you play on the Legere, subtract at least 1. I play the 3.0 Legere and D'Addario recommended the 2.5 Venn. Way too much. I should have gone with a 2. Honestly, though, I think I'll stick with the Legere. I know the Legere and while it is hard to line it up on the mouthpiece, it's just comfortable to play.
That’s interesting Kristen. I use Legere in my clarinet too but haven’t tried the VENN for cl yet.
I played legere reeds on Tenor and Soprano, but the sound and respons did not feel good. The Forestone Hinoki played better for me but wears and softens too fast. So I returned to Cane and that works for me even if not every reed is a great one.
I was reluctant to try the American cut because everyone sounded really bright on them. I ended up buying one since I couldn't get a good sound on the rest of the brands (and I've tried all of them). It was love at first sight. On the other hand, I had a lot of expectations on the Venn, waited several months to get one since they always seemed to be out of stock and I was shocked I could not get a good sound out of it. I sanded it since it seemed a bit hard and I believe I ruined it... Could not play in tune either...
Sorry to hear that Jazzman.
I have tried a few different Legere reeds, but so far they don't fit my need. I usually play D'Addario Select Jazz 3S (or the Plasticover 3). I recently tried a Venn 2.0, but found it a bit too resistant, so it is very helpful to know that you can adjust them!
Those Select Jazz are nice too Rob.
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool Yes, I like Select Jazz, but I am still hoping to find a synthetic reed that I like, because of the consistency and durability, without sacrificing the tone color.
I don't know how you can play either one of those synthetic reeds, I will be sticking with cane.
Great video, thanks a lot.
I usually play a Vandoren Java Red 2.5 on my tenor sax.
But I was curious, so I recently bought a Venn 2.0. It sounds and plays quite nice in the lower range of my sax.
But for the higher notes the Venn is way to hard (at least for me).
Could you explain how to fix this with the reed geek ?
Good question - that feels like a whole other video topic.
I couldn’t hear the difference you talked about, but it was just on my iPad speakers. I think I heard opposite what you did, with the Venns sounding less bright. Maybe I should get my headphones on, or better, just try one.
I like Legere AC, but one slight problem is they are slick and slide around too easily on mouthpiece faces, particularly metal mps. Is the Venn a bit more textured? Not much of a problem for me because I like my hard rubber mouthpieces better than my Otto Link New York.
It’s interesting that you can work the Venns with a Reed Geek, but is that really a drawback of Legere since you can select quarter sizes?
Sirvalor says altissimo is easier on a slightly harder cane reed than an artificial reed. I tried this yesterday, but wasn’t convinced. I still hit lots of overtones, even real high ones, but not the target with lower altissimo fingerings. Some real high altissimo notes ring out true.
You probably have heard this story. I was getting ready to play one night, pulled out a Legere reed, licked both sides before sliding it under my ligature, and this young woman asked, “Are you taking acid?”
Ha! That’s a good one Paul! I don’t find them too “slippy” on metal mouthpieces myself. Just need to get the ligature right.
I have been using Legere reeds for my tenor for more than 12 years. I really like the tone and the consistent sound and not having to prime the reed. I don't find fitting the reed on my brass coloured metal mouthpiece to be a problem at all.
hey dude i have a question, what kind of legere reed do you use, i also play tenor and I'm looking into getting one but i don't know what style will suit me the best
@@gobills10292 I use a Signature Reed, 2 1/4. I would advise going down in strength from your cane reed. Legere reeds are hard compared to most cane reeds.
@@gsco82 alr! thanks, i don’t know if i should get venn or legere. i’ve been leaning toward venn but i’ll continue my RESEARCH
Dear Nigel. Thanks for all your clear explanation! I have a different question though. I saw you playing the demos with InEar Monitors. Since I play in a band I’m struggling to find a good IEM. Most of them close too well so when I play the sound coming from bone conduction is screaming over my normal sound in my head. This is not nice to play. I’ve heard that a more open back IEM could help. Can you maybe tell something about your experience or maybe do a video about that? Thanks in advance 👍👊 Marc
Great idea Marc snd I am planing on doing a quick video about the in ears I use in my studio.
Thanks! Looking forward to that. The strange thing is that I only notice this kazoo-like sound when I use closed IEMs. Don’t have this problem when using normal studio headphones. So I thought it might have something to do with cloaking off the ears with IEM. My thought is could it help having open-back IEMs. That’s why I was curious about your experience. Best regards Marc
Damn I just ordered a Venn today and I think I prefer the Légère. We'll see...
I'd like to hear your thoughts on the mouth feel. I love my Legere, but after an hour or so it bothers my lip, which the cane reeds do not. I also like them being transparent. I can see if my embouchure is correct if the spit is in a steady single stream down the center of the reed. I'll try a Venn 2 just to see what it's like
That’s interesting. No real difference for me with the mouth feel between VENN and Legere. Just sound / response.
Is it possible the Legere is a BIT to stiff for you, and you are compensating by biting a bit harder in order to keep control?
wow how you record duet?
I liked the legere sound but really dislike the see- through design. It's so hard to fit them correctly, especially in dark venues. So I'm still with Fibracell but will investigate Venn. Thanks
Cheers Kevin.
Nice comparison. Played myself with a Légère 2,25 , but changed recently to a 2,75. Also use cane now and then. Only one remark: why give the price in dollars and pounds, but not in euro? The pound is getting a more and more obscure currency IMHO 😉
Ha Jozik. Thanks for watching. I’m based in the UK and loads of our Members are here which is why I always mention Sterling prices. Good point though, Euro prices are a good idea to mention.
@@McGillMusicSaxSchool I know you're based in England, though Australian by birth. You used to play a Buescher once, like I do now. A happy member of Sax School for over 2 years now, though I use my real name there, not the Russian word for little porcupine (jozik = ёзик)
@@brianrackley7429 I know, just kidding. Located just across the North Sea, near the place where lots of people buy their pot 😉
7:06 what song is that and can it be played by a quartet
Interesting that you place reeds by sight. Until you said that, I hadn't realized I never do that. I place them by feel: finger touch on the sides, tongue on the tip.
Neither here nor there, just interesting
That’s cool. I guess it is habit. I never do it by feel although that would be really helpful on a dark stage.
The original Venn reeds had a nice dark sound, but they were too resistant, and the quality control was poor. The Venn v.2, which you tested, is like a whole new reed. D'Addario's QC is now very good, the strength ratings are more sensible, and the reeds are pretty free-blowing, but they are also noticeably brighter. I agree with you that they seem too bright for classical playing. Even a #3 Venn on alto has a bit too much edge for me. I do prefer the Venn's high-end response to that of the Legere Signature, but the Signature has a more versatile sound.
Cheers JR
The new VENN reeds may be an improvement on the old, but you still sound better on the Legeres.
Thanks Al.
Disagree..I have tried all the synthetic reeds and the only ones in my opininion that are worth playing are Fiberreed (I prefer the Carbon or Copper Carbon). The sound they produce is terrific and importantly, you can actually work on them if you need to.
Love my Harry Hartmann fiberreeds , yes i play rock , pop, R n B , I’ve dabbled with them all but the Hemp and Onyx are my main choices here with the carbon 3rd , all totally workable last for ages on my Yamaha black custom 82z Tenor , Shiva 8 destroyer MPC and agree with you on the Venn , too hard out the box not durable enough for me , for you Nigel i think you would have to try the full range of Fiberreeds for all the styles of music you play and you would use different ones for those styles
Not sure if I'm the only one thinking about this, but my concern with synthetic reeds is the microplastic that we will end up inhaling.
There's been lots of health issues discussed lately around cancer causing silica dust particles and how we can now find microplastic in our bloodstream.
I wonder how much microplastic and resin/synthetic reed dust we will end up breathing in when using these reeds daily...
I wouldn't be too concerned. You are blowing, not sucking and it is not like these canes disintegrate... I worry about plastic, but I do not find plastic canes are an issue.
@@brianrackley7429 I agree! I switched (back) to cast iron and steel long ago. With proper seasoning, cast iron is almost as non-stick as Teflon. And with proper care, cast iron pans can last for hundreds of years. My parents use their grand parents cast iron skillet/pan from 1920s.
But in terms of the reeds - it's not so much aerosol, but bits of reed slowly grinding away under the vibration and getting inhaled (especially when sucking on the mouthpiece, to get rid of extra moisture that builds while playing)
@@jazzman_10 yeah I do agree mostly. What I'm concerned about is when I periodically suck on the mouthpiece while playing to get rid of extra moisture. I'm sure I'll be sucking any microplastics straight into my lungs, where it'll stay for the rest of my life. But I hope I'm wrong!
I've tried Legere, Fibracell and Harry Hartmann's Fibrereeds.
I think the plastic in Legere is quite stable, so shouldn't be a problem.
Fibracell to me is a worry, and to a lesser extent the hemp Fibrereed.
Haven't tried other brands.
I prefer Legere as the have more options. Venn is a tad too bright and also not as dynamic to play (Soft to Loud).
prefer the Legere
Cool
Legere sound too clean to me, I've never liked the sound. Venn sound more like cane, but you pointing out the brightness has put me off even more. I think I remain unconvinced, back to the Boston Sax Shop reeds for me.
Hey if they work for you then that’s great. I need to try them!
The softest Venn strength available is a 2, way too hard if like me you need 1.75 - 2.0 in other reeds. So I wasted my money. Don’t even think of buying this reed if you’re a beginner. Also it’s weirdly slippery in the mouth and my lips/ teeth couldn’t get a proper grip.
Sounds like their strength control is as non existing as it is with ALTA. Those I cannot play 1.5+ with same ease I play Legere 2.5 signature..
It is tricky to work out the sizes.
Can the Venn be clipped?
Legere is Better!
Legere sound better
I will NEVER pay $35 PER REED for a Legere simply because they're not worth that much!! If you want a Reed that will stand up for an insane amount of time, try Rico Plasticover Reeds!! I've been playing them for the last 25 years and basically, I won't play anything else simply because they stand up for an insane amount of time and 25 bucks for a box of 3.5 strength Plasticover reeds is much better than 35 bucks per Reed for a 3.5 tenor Legere Reed!!!!!