The Worst Monitor Ever… In Color! - Dasung Paperlike Color E-Ink Monitor
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2024
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While we love looking at cool gaming monitors with features like MiniLED and QD-OLEDs, Dasung is coming to us today with something out of left field, an E-INK display. That’s right the same tech that graces the Amazon Kindle is in a monitor now. Only this time it is in color! Could this be the difference between e-ink and e-stink?
Discuss on the forum: linustechtips.com/topic/15730...
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MUSIC CREDIT
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Intro: Laszlo - Supernova
Video Link: • [Electro] - Laszlo - S...
iTunes Download Link: itunes.apple.com/us/album/sup...
Artist Link: / laszlomusic
Outro: Approaching Nirvana - Sugar High
Video Link: • Sugar High - Approachi...
Listen on Spotify: spoti.fi/UxWkUw
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Intro animation by MBarek Abdelwassaa / mbarek_abdel
Monitor And Keyboard by vadimmihalkevich / CC BY 4.0 geni.us/PgGWp
Mechanical RGB Keyboard by BigBrotherECE / CC BY 4.0 geni.us/mj6pHk4
Mouse Gamer free Model By Oscar Creativo / CC BY 4.0 geni.us/Ps3XfE
CHAPTERS
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0:00 Intro
1:25 How It Works
5:52 Video Impressions
8:55 Office Use Impressions
10:37 Comics
11:55 Who is this for?
12:52 Gaming
15:25 Conclusions - Наука та технологія
I have a classmate who can no longer look at standard electronic screens due to a concussion and can only look at e-ink screens without pain. I showed her this and she was in awe. Very glad to see this on the market, even if it’s not for most consumers.
Way to put her through serious pain just for clout, bro.
Really is a great technology for people with visual issues
I frankly don't buy the notion that it's "standard electric screens" that are the problem.
@@seigeengine Light sensitivity is an extremely common symptom of a concussion. Her concussion was so bad that it caused permanent brain damage. Electronic screens emit blue light which can be harsh on the eyes and brain, plus they flicker extremely quickly, which can cause strain. While these barely affect most people, her injury has damaged her brain enough to the point where it can’t take in that amount of light/information at one time. Because of this, she experiences very strong head and eye pain after looking at a screen. I suggest you educate yourself before discounting the effects of a condition which you do not have to live with.
@@randomepic12 Yes, I know.
So turn down the brightness. You need light to read e-ink displays too.
So just make your display less blue? Like, do you not think there's blue light in other lights?
I suggest you stop hiding behind someone else's injury. It's revolting.
if anyone is curious the morse code on the back says "PAPERLIKE 253 DASUNG"
Thanks! You just saved me loads of time :)
THANK YOU! I was curious, but not quite curious enough 😅
I decoded it before looking for the answer 😊
@@konishiwoi 0:48
@@konishiwoi 13:17
They use RGB pixels? I thought they'd use CMYK, not only it's more "print-like" (so quite fitting for e-ink), but also brighter since more light comes through CMYK rather than RGB
I came here to say this too. RGB is meant for transmissive displays that produce light, whereas CMYK is best for something that is 'reflective'. So why on earth wasn't CMYK used for this? It would also have given each 'pixel' an even 4 sub-pixels - one of each colour.
E Ink Kaleido uses RGB color filters (black and white pigments reflect light, and it comes out via filter layer, just like in regular monitor)
E Ink Gallery uses CMYK pigments (they are reflect the light like the paper does).
Former is faster, but has lesser resolution when in color (1/3x), and colors are "pastel" (because of this color filter layer the light passes twice)
Latter is slower (4x), but resolution is as good as in b/w mode. And it has more colors, and they are way brighter.
@@shaunbowen It's not transmissive vs reflective, it's additive vs subtractive. CMYK only works when you can stack transparent layers. E-ink is opaque.
Most computer coding is designed around the RGB color space (because most monitors are RGB). Using CMYK on the display end requires extra processing (read as: more expensive) to convert from RGB values.
Also, CMYK and RGB have incompatible color values in certain ranges. You'd have color values that would have to be rounded off to fit into the color space in real time.
E-Ink has so many great uses.. Our supermarket price labels here are all 3 color (Black, White and Red) E-ink.. They all update over an IR broadcast system.. And they're great
That's a bit different E-ink type, it has 3 natural pigments (black, white and red (or yellow)). But it's slow asf. So it's only good when image doesn't change for long time, like in ads or price labels.
This feels like the latest monitor technology in the world of fallout where they don’t have transistors.. except that even CRT’s don’t use transistors and make way more sense
Actually they have transistors in the Fallout. They just were invented significantly later and integrated circuits even later. Don't expect Pip-Boy and these robots to actually world exclusively on vacuum tubes.
@@pavuk357 yeah, people dont realize you couldnt make what is essentially wrist mounted game boy with just vaccum tubes for compute... power, heat dispersion, etc would be significantly worse than what we're shown if that was the case.
@@helixmusic4279 Ya could technically do it with diodes in a particular configuration, but then that gets dangerously close to transistors
handheld CRT's would be hella wild
@@lurifaks92 Those existed. Are you too young to remember portable TVs?
I can’t imagine there’s even a 2 percent subset of people even within the monitor enthusiasts that would have any real world tangible use for this.
There absolutely is for people with eye strain
Linustech 👍🏼
That's honestly the whole point of them
The only thing i could think of is advertisements in a storefront. But like… just hang posters for 0.5% of the price.
Its a typical example of „this is really cool. But why tho?“
If you have eye strain and are an avid reader, it's extraordinarily useful. I love manga, I would LOVE to have one of these specific for colored manga.
My cousin with an internet addiction bought the black & white one off my recommendation after your last video. It REALLY helped him, since videos, games and all the other shit that addicted him was basically unusable but things like job applications, academic stuff and what not were still accessible to him.
With that said, the color one is NEAT and I almost want it just for the novelty.
that's actually a pretty solid use case, if not one of the best use cases
@@Unknown_Genius yeah I have a BOOX tablet exactly for this. When I need to read PDFs or Google something without overstimulating my brain or blasting my eyes out at night time. Plus it holds a charge for literal months if you use it lightly.
Yeah, I'm thinking of making my kids use it when I become a parent :p
Also will use it for myself because of the same issues. Concentration, eye strain, lessened UA-cam consumption.. etc.
Got addicted to sudoku on my E-ink tablet though. Some inherent issues like lack of discipline aren't resolved XD.
@@yensteel Some addictive games like Ogame (space war simulator) would probably work just fine.
I quit that game after noticing I was scheduling my life around that game instead of the other way around.
the fact that most of the popular comments on this video say either how it's terrible at gaming, or how nobody would use this, proves that this audience doesn't do much READING. READING, people, that's what this is for!
Did you miss Linus's comments on the text not being very sharp?
@xGOKOPx he said the text was not very sharp, then they changed the mode to text or smth and it was obviously much better. The problem i have with his test is that he's using the monitor for text editing, and e-ink technology doesn't really excel at that right now due to its slowness. Using a combination of settings, i was able to make my e-ink android tablet be acceptable for text editing, but the slowness means it's really just not ideal. But what it really is ideal for is reading. He should have loaded an ebook, and checked that out, first thing. And of course, the font wouldn't be very small, why would you wanna squint when reading? Just use the full screen ( not just the middle like he does with editing text) and it'll be great for reading. I am not a fan of dasung, haven't even tried their products, but i am a fan of e-ink displays. It just feels entirely different reading from them, compared to normal monitors. I would still use normal monitors, and have an additional eink display for reading, and i would make sure i would use it ina way that would get me the most out of it, like setting it to change a full page instead of scrolling
@@cristivpopescu He didn't change any mode to make text sharper, he just made the text larger.
@xGOKOPx they did, watch the full video again. They change the mode to text and test further. The video is cut short in places. Anyway, at minute 10:00 they even say "to be fair, we are in text mode". They were talking about the weird way that the monitor is displaying the text editor UI like page lines, etc. Linus does make a good point that " text mode" should be what you would expect to use for editing text(due to the name), but what he doesn't mention is that you can't use text mode when editing if you want the display to be responsive so it doesn't feel sluggish when you type.
On my eink android tablet, I use a mode that is faster when editing text/typing, and when reading, I use the "text mode" or normal mode, as mine is called, so just use whatever mode your eink device has that is the slowest mode, which is fine when you are reading books page by page ( not by scrolling! but by "turning" the pages , like with a book)
that's why kindle exists
As someone with sensory issues who needs to use computers constantly, I want an actually usable transflective monitor so bad it hurts.
The Sun Vision display works well in rooms with windows, it's just very expensive. I daily drive one in my office and it's been working great for over a year.
Interesting, how does that work? E-Ink? If it works so well what is the point of this product?
@@The_Horizon transflective displays are like the same tech like inside of a Gameboy, just newer. So imagine the difference between a Gameboy and a book.
A Gameboy needs alot of light, but a book can get by with ambient light. Additionally, a Gameboy needs constant power to show a picture, but a book can keep its image indefinitely.
A similar scenario occurs with EInk and Transflective displays. Transflective displays (as of today) basically need sunlight to be visible, and require a moderate amount of power to stay functioning, but have higher refresh rates and clarity. EInk Displays have the benefit of being easier to light up, and are able to keep an image on screen with no power, but are very slow to update. Both have theirs reasons ro exist, and both have their own strengths and weaknesses.
You have to be careful about other factors though, such as clarity, sharpness, contrast, and overall readability. Transflective screens generates less light, but it could create eye strain from the lack of the other qualities. E-ink tends to be pretty good with all of these qualities, with the con of ghosting, full refresh cycles, and poor frame rate.
Try accomodine integrator
My stupid use case would be to use it for my server that is sat in my room to glance at the status in the night by throwing my torch up at it in bed
Wealthy people have bought less for more so this is a good use case 🤣
Likewise I have a couple Raspberry Pis doing mundane tasks like ad blocking and ADSB receiving. They don't need all-the-time displays but a passive e-ink would be perfect. It would likely cost too much to be worth doing but it would still be better than a couple bright LCD panels.
If it makes sense for you, it is not stupid.
@@dragons_advocate that's very flawed thinking
@@nikoraasu6929how is it flawed? There isn’t a better solution for this use case, just alternatives due to the price
I wonder what the technical limitation is that stops all the beads in a cell being pigmented so they could do sub-pixels the normal way.
Size, probably. Either that or problems with driving the pixels
I think that is pretty much what's going on there, they are just calling the subpixels as full pixels so they can market it as higher resolution if I understand correctly.
@@VertexPlaysMC yeah linus explained there's two ways to do it. either you have multi-color beads inside each cell, or you have three "types" of cells each with a different color, which is what we see on this monitor.
yeah i guess size is the biggest limitation here but i don't know
It's definitely the lack of a strong lighting source that limits the size of the pixels, similar to the limitation of R-LCD. Light needs to go in, hit the E-ink cells, then go back through the color filter. LMG here has a nice video on that.
If color E-ink gets more saturation, the whites would be even duller like for transparent color folders. Kaleido plus, the previous version was said to be whiter and brighter than Kaleido 3.
@@VertexPlaysMCYep, there's two sets of DPI. Color DPI is 150 and B/W is 300 DPI for 10 inch devices, although that's only true for b, not w. (YT alg, please don't misinterpret this)
The old pebble watch with e-ink display was such a gamechanger for outdoor use I’m honestly surprised its taken this long for companies to make full sized monitors. With continued investment it could be just as good as regular screens. You should compare this screen outside in direct sunlight.
I could also see these being used in public facing spaces. If you have a display that doesn't change too frequently. Something like menus out front of a restaurant
That's a perfect solution for a problem that doesn't even exist.
@@banksy215 not quite a lot of buildings use monitors for directories and some restaurants use them for seating ques and/or other restaurant info, considering how little power e ink monitors use in comparison this could be a interesting alternative especially if the economy of scale catches up as a similar size e ink costs less to manufacture than a regular monitor
@@banksy215 Depends on how cheap they are.
Paying $300-$1000 or even more a piece for a half dozen big TVs or displays to show menus or promotional material isn't very cost effective, especially if you've got multiple locations.
If these were available for under $100, they'd be a worthy investment for many small businesses or chains. But at $1000, I can't imagine a market ever existing for them.
You can use LED backlit picture frames. 1W of power usage. Also this monitor is expensive as fuck and at that point electricity cost is certainly not the issue.
eink is already used in some places kinda like that, for example media markt (a german electronics retailer) uses red/white/black eink displays for their price tags
you should play DOOM on it
I ordered one lol, I will find out.
Bit muddy
Original Wolfenstein 3D would be better
@@itwasntmebro2669why? Like…. Just why?
you need a decent fps for doom
You did forget to set up Windows ClearType for better fonts.
Yes, I was thinking that bud. Thanks to you! That should make text clearer through all the modes though. But, to be fair, Dasung need to have that in their quick start guide. 🙂
They did discuss that in their previous video. Theres no mention of it here though. So who knows.
Oh hey KittBett-Masters! Great livestream!
@@KitBetts-Masters Yeah, I must sound like a defective record for mentioning it again and again. ;-)
I don't believe Windows knows about offset triangular staggered pixel layouts as far as text rendering goes. ClearType is all about subpixel layout, and these aren't subpixels.
@@aaronmdjones I'm pretty sure they should disable ClearType and disable text smoothing (Smooth edges of screen fonts), since there are no subpixels here.
I'm genuinely upset that you didn't cover power draw.
i would assume it draws more power than a lcd while watching videos. but barely draws anything if anything at all with still images.
can't be sure until its tested though.
you guys should add a code editor test for these kinds of things. Normal text editors are black on a white background with weird fonts, vscode is colors on black with a monospace font.
Yeah, as said in the video, blacks have worse ghosting. It's the worst case scenario, and important to evaluate for coders.
2:45 POSY MADE IT!!
im proud of him
POSY MENTION LETS GOOOOO
POSY SWEEP
can't believe this bought channel is still relavant
I still remember when he had 5k subs and then went to 200k in less than 2 weeks, really great to see him recognized
I thought of an interesting use case for e-ink recently. You know those signboards that Epcot has (had?) that post the wait times for every ride in the park, cycling between two or three screens worth every few seconds? Imagine being able to build a sign like that but it's designed to look like a printed sign. It would be on a slat with a screen on both sides, inset into a box so you can only see the front side, and every few seconds the slats all flip over like an old-school billboard to show the next "page" of attractions. Except while it's showing those, the ones on the back side secretly slow-refresh to update the wait times or, if there are more than two "pages", cue up the next page.
The best part is, you wouldn't even need a color display. Just customize the two colors to whatever color scheme you want your sign to be. Black and yellow, green and white, brown and beige, etc. It's perfectly readable in direct sunlight, and it can fit in with any theming.
0:25 oh cool that's me
That's kinda cool
I would strongly consider the black and white one for reading papers, books, textbooks etc. Lots of reading on a regular monitor is horrible
Unless you set brightness appropriately and sit in a properly lit room
Using dark mode is a huge eye saver, especially with an Oled.
@@ledocteur7701 if your room is too dark
I agree. Reading on wink for hours is comfortable compared to any type of LCD, OLED etc using any settings.
@@JGnLAU8OAWF6No amount of adjusting is enough for regular reading with really dry eyes. EInk makes it tolerable.
Linus: Has super sophisticated Lab for testing devices.
Also Linus: Used $15 amazon low-res microscope to look at pixels.
better than the time Linus and Alex sat a real (heavy) microscope on a monitor.
They are testing it on-site. It's impressive that they brought any tech to test it at all.
It is good to show for how cheap you could do it yourself every now and then.
Frankly, the cheapo microscope was good enough for the testing done on this monitor... it's not like measuring the color gamut on this one would really help anyone make a buying decision. We already know it's crap just from looking at it for three seconds.
They're easy to move around and point in arbitrary directions. 🤷
You still keep missing the signage use case for e-ink. For point of sale, or tags (like large retailers like Kohls, Aldi already use).
12:25 guess what Linus. Some places don't have practices as sane as LMG and just expect you to stare at a computer for an email all day until lunch, then again after it.
I feel quite lucky that there's a window right where my screen is, so I can just look outside at the nice brick wall and see what the weather is like. But still. I wish they'd encourage 5-10 minute breaks every hour or two. Where you should stretch and talk to someone at a distant corner of the office.
I wonder if OSHA has anything to say about that.
@@jamesphillips2285 well okay I may of been a little melodramatic with it. Can get up and walk around whenever there's no meetings, but it's the fact that no 9-5 desk job highlights health in computing these days. That's old news now already. 😅
I've been waiting for the next gen of color e-ink for years at this point. The current resolution limitations make it useless for comics/text.
I have a Kobo Libra Color, and I find the 150 dpi is fine for most comics. And then when I go to read black and white text, it returns to 300 dpi.
The biggest problem is the colors look faded. But if I'm reading a comic where that matters, I can use my tablet.
I have a kaleido 2 boox and its not too bad for sci papers and manga but yeah there is sure room for improvement
150ppi is plenty for comics reading. Saying it'e not is like claiming the iPad 1-2 couldn't read comics. Your standards are either ridiculous or you haven't seen the latest panel tech. 🤷 As someone said above color saturation is a WAAAAAY bigger issue at this point than raw resolution.
@@Cooe. Color saturation, and the variety of problems introduced by the color filter that Linus pointed out. Greyscale performance, text clarity, and darkness all make it difficult to get behind buying a Kaleido 3 device unless you are an avid reader of almost nothing but western comics.
Right now, color E-ink isn't ready to fully replace B/W. So it's a matter of preference. It's a transition period. Kaleido 3 nor Gallery 3 have a lot of compromises. Kaleido 4 hasn't been described yet.
Gallery 3 is ACEP technology, the usage of 4 different sets of particles in a single cell. But the only product that had it got reliability issues then switched to kaleido 3 in a new launch.
I'm hoping they can merge the two together. 3 particles instead of 4 to be faster, and then use only 1 color filter, like green so it's not so much darker. They could do some sort of CMY technique too.
This is why I wish RLCDs / Transflective displays would make a comeback. You could get them up to like 120hz and they had incredible contrast for black and white content, especially in sunlight, with the downside being slightly washed out colors and viewing angles being equivalent to VA panels.
LTT made a video about Sun Vision Display's RLCD monitor. I have one myself, and it fits my needs perfectly. Sun Vision is the best Western RLCD manufacturer right now IMO, though they don't have 120hz like you mentioned.
Nah, even VA has surprisingly acceptable viewing angle.
Those thing is pretty much worse than TN
@@NigelMelanisticSmith I didn't realize, just finished watching it and I just wish they had included a backlight like on the OLPC laptops
@@callowaysutton for sure. Some cheaper Chinese RLCD brands do have the backlights, but they aren't full desktop monitor size like Sun Vision
Yeah, T-LCD isn't a new technology since pixel-qi made them pre 2010. It's nice to see at least one company take the torch. Eye care and Outdoor friendliness are the new arenas for all devices, whether it's in high nits and high pwm for OLED or an alternative technology like T-LCD or E-ink.
There's some other techs too. Forgot their names.
Edit: EFD/EFPD display from Hannstar was the other tech, and CH-LCD. The first looks dark like Kaleido 3 but without ghosting, the other is super slow in refresh rate, slower than e-ink, but the colors pop out like LCD.
11:32 wohh the said "really well !" In sync😅
Really love the animated graphics in this video, very helpful!!!
If it didn't cost what it costs, I would *love* to have one for writing.
This color e-ink makes this video look like a VHS tape with rotoscoping.
OMG the cute set is the intro sponsor read. I do love that setup
10:46 "Do you realize? DO YOU REALIZE? DO YOU REALIZE something? Let me tell you, if the Health Department of Greene County sees those videos that you put on the damn Internet. They could condemn our house, and we would have to move out of it?"- Bob Chandler
Those pixels kinda look like Tetris 😂
I still really, really want an e-ink monitor. I want it for reading pdfs, ebooks, and SHEET MUSIC! It's just a matter of price. I'm just waiting for the ~$300 price point. Way too expensive right now.
But why? Any 200$ monitor will be better :). Also you have real colors _and_ sharp looking text / fonts.
You completely miss the point, clearly
Buy one of those large e-books. They are better in every way and you can put them anywhere. Like, what's the point of sheet music if you have to plug it into wall in the computer room?
*all are e-ink
@@l4kr 1:1 sized e-ink tablets are, unfortunately, very expensive. I know you can get 10 inch tablets at a somewhat affordable price point, but if you want ones the size of actual sheets of paper (e.g. A4, or around 13 inch), you have to shell out a lot or get shit products. I personally have an Onyx Tab X which I'm quite happy with, but it's far from affordable.
I have just watched the black and white monitor video and being like hope you got the colorful one to watch how it would be, and see in the suggestion that you just uploaded the video. Great video!
Ok text editing might be much more doable if you have it in portrait. You could have the text larger and more readable and not lose out on how much is on your screen.
That being said, I could see this being moved into a more commercial use for signage and displays on food trucks. They don't need to refresh often, it would be cheaper than custom printing signage when you need to alter it, and it wouldn't need to push out a significant amount of power to accommodate the brightness of the sun.
Portrait mode using 16:9/10. Is king for document editing 👍. Nearly no need to scroll for each page. It's even better in full screen.
"My monitor no longer works". "Oh you need to top up your cyan and magenta ink"
"Your cyan and magenta ink subscriptions expired!"
Don’t give HP any ideas…
@@aokaze-minotaurwe cannot come up with anything worse than what they dream up
- And don't forget yellow, it needs a regular refill!
- But... we barely used any yellow...?
- It. Needs. A. Refill.
@@RuslanIvanyuk-ub8fj Forgot which video or comment under a video it was, but they mentioned that yellow was used to "watermark" a picture to identify which printer it came from. That's why it'd always run out of yellow so much.
It's like we're back to MDA vs CGA.
CGA looked better that this
And..that’s a good thing right…?
MDA and Hercules look amazing though. On a CRT with no shadow mask, with amber phosphor, it's incredible.
Fr
I'd love an e-ink as a second monitor, and it'd be great in portrait. The tech gets better every year, but it's not there just yet.
3:02 I see what you did there, ha! I hope this tech keeps getting innovated. I'd be tempted to grab one for outside use if the quality was better.
Awesome video and explanation! Glad to see Color E-Ink is getting more recognition lately. I suspect we'll see a Kindle Color sooner than many realize, but not with the color filter approach, but with colored E-Ink particles (=E-Ink Gallery 3).
I want to see Return of the Obra Din on an e-ink display
wow, exactly!
I actually feel like I'd like this. Not as a main monitor, but a lot of the time I like to have reference sites up while I'm playing, so having a less intrusive, less bright reference monitor to read on would be great!
Reduce brightness of your screen then?
@@JGnLAU8OAWF6 These people genuinely baffle me.
Like, "menus are hard, I must spend $1650 on a scam product instead!"
I ended up with 7 of those ginger root shirts from the “mystery” deal lol. Cool to see it on LTT :) I’m so stoked for the upcoming album and meet you at the galaxy
Reminds me of early/mid 90's laptop screens.
I've been waiting for this!
but what I really want is a Color E-ink Portable Wireless monitor, for industrial use on the shop floor.
There is pretty decent info the blue light might trick your brain into thinking it's morning. So if you are on your PC late at night this can have a real effect. Using software like f.lux works well. And if you actively use it you'll actually find it probably makes you tired as it gets progressively more orange. This would fall in line with the same way plants work where different wave lengths or light help the plant do different things.
I believe the research said something among the lines of it's not really blue that does this, it's just light in general and blue just marginally more because it's stronger compared to red (per photon). Also part of the gains are from cutting UV that many monitors don't filter out properly
I was there... 3000 years ago when F.lux was the only way to cut down on blue light.. dark mode didn't even exist so I inverted the screen....
I have used the Yoatphone 2 for years and loved the great contrast in sunlight conditions and the powerless screen remaining. The brand new color E-ink approach amazes me - but it is really hard to get good information about it. Your in depth review really nailed it - you are the first to really show the subpixel pattern working, you explain why it still has some sort of their full resolution and where the obstacles are. Typical Smartphone and Tablet screens still suck in high lit sorroundings so I'd love to see that solved with E-Ink for professionals who have to use it outside.
Okay, after seeing your fun real world tests, I can see how hard it actually is to choose the perfect setting on the fly. But I also love the colorful fast E-ink when it is doing a decent job. I think we can already see great improvements in the ghosting avoiding subroutines, to a point where I would call it nice, but I think it would be way better, if the screen could analyze what the current task is and put settings to parts of the screen and other settings to other parts, so the overall sharpness, speed and contrast gives the best possible output. If I had the usecase for it (Texting, coding, outside work) I would already buy one. Color makes it way more easy to use in real world scenarios!
I want this as a digital picture frame that does not need constant power and can hold an image for a long time
That's my plan, but I'll wait ten years until it's actually affordable
@@eddythefool unlikely. these e-ink screens are manufactured by one company (e-ink holdings based in taiwan). they have a complete monopoly over the entire e-ink market.
the tech/innovation moves incredibly slow for the same reason.
@@downey2294guess I'll have to wait 20 years then
12:10 I don't think a lit display is the problem, but I definitely get eyestrain if I look at a screen that's TOO bright for extended periods of time. Calibrating to ~100 nits on desktop use and using minimum legible brightness when reading on a phone definitely helps.
I'm just happy that these are finally in mass production so I can look forward to e-ink poster frames.
Oh boys and girls, orange Linus at 4:58 seems like a demon carrot version of normal Sebastian xDDDDD
0:47 the morse code says PAPERLIKE253 DASUNG
I feel like this could work really well for the tabletop gaming tables with built in monitors for maps.
Or just use a normal display for a small fraction of the cost, and it'll actually look good too.
@@seigeengine Cost was never mentioned in my comment, and for static images it looked fine. Not to mention the e-ink nature gives a bit of nostalgia to when these games were pencil and paper only.
@@kylestahlbaum3109 Unfortunately for your comment, costs exist.
It looked garbage for static images, but I'll give you that it looked less garbage for them.
I do not agree about the nostalgia, there are ways to affect a pencil and paper vibe with a more typical display, and if you really want that vibe, actually just using pencils and paper would be better.
@@seigeengine And to a lot of people and monitor types they looks like garbage when laid flat and looking from bad angles. Lets also see you argue around the fact that some people need to use displays like this or none at all, so what do we do then? I also never claimed that this would be a good/perfect idea right now, simply a possibility. Why cant we just appreciate the good qualities of a product and where they can take us in the future? Or do we just watch a review to hate on a product even though there could be perfectly valid use case's for it, now or in the future? Or did I miss the entire point of this channel for the last 15 years?
@@kylestahlbaum3109 What century are you living in that you think basically any modern display won't look good from any angle it's going to be used at in the context of a display table top for gaming? Heck, I just sanity checked this with the display I'm on right now. It looks essentially perfect at literally any angle. Okay, if I'm like less than five degrees from the edge then reflections off the screen start to overtake the image, but at that point, perspective is the more relevant limiting factor.
Nobody needs to use e-ink or none at all. You really ought to stop making things up. You're just digging the hole deeper.
It's a scam product meant to exploit people. You do realize your mentality supports people being conned out of their money, right?
I wish when reviewing applicable hardware you'd also test in on some software developer use cases, like compilation times for CPUs, and dark mode IDEs for weird monitors like this (maybe even writing code for keyboards).
You can say what you want about digital eye strain, but when I had a concussion, I could barely interact with screens in stores, but my ereader was fine for hours on end
I can think of a few Fringe use cases for this.
An always on display in a room with lots of natural light, for example. Things will be in larger formats because that will be meant to be read from a slightly longer. Distance. Refresh is super super low. And strong natural light will negate the need for the front light. Good fit
But I think the fit is for stuff like that. I hope that's enough to keep them alive and developing this tech to cover a wider use case
15:28, they may be charging $1649, but that does not mean that's what its worth lol
i'd rather pay 16,49 for that thing dawg
(A) They're the only company making E-Ink monitors so, unfortunately they can charge whatever they want. (B) It's probably not a product you have a strong want/need for.
@@Daktyl198 also who th thought e-ink monitors would be a good idea at first
The problem is that they need a whole production chain for this thing, and they know almost nobody is gonna buy it.
They have a really high margin on it, at least 400% , but that's probably still just barely enough to make a profit.
I mean
We talked about PC enthusiast that keep dreaming weird enterprise stuff to make their setup bit more hipster, yet they ask with fraction of price
I've really enjoyed how the last several videos have been scripted, I love the turns-to-another-camera action everyone is doing when moving onto another point or section and the way it's edited. Also the natural way the acting and script delivery comes across is great. Great stuff IMO!
What I would really like is a gameboy light style implementation of this tech. Where the monitor has 2 layers. Standard LED, but you could mode-switch it to E-ink for a "night mode" style of use.
That plus an auto-refresh feature built in. E-ink has a place as a mode, but not a place as a replacement for standardized LEDs.
Say what you will about its usefulness, but the refresh rate and the reduced ghosting are ASTONISHING compared to just a few years ago. The tech is still in the early adopter stage, sure, but I am already blown away by the progress
3:10 closlier?!
yo posy is frickin awesome, thx for showing a part of his e-ink video in this
I have just general eye strain. The best advice I can give is to always adjust the brightness to roughly match the environment. Blue light glasses also help a ton, they literally make the difference between blood-shot eyes and NOT for me.
9:40 the floatplane referance😂
I love the idea of paper like screens, if only it was high res and smooth with high framerates!
Unfortunately those are the limitations of the technology. For resolution, you can only make the particles so small.
For the refresh rate, it takes time for the old particles to fall off the screen and the new particles to rise up. You can slightly speed this up, but you'll end up with ghosting until you do a slow full refresh.
@@TheRavenCoder I mean, the video phone was a terrible idea and now we have FaceTime. Maybe this particular approach to this idea sucks, but the idea itself I personally think is great.
@@Jeebus-un6zz Don't get me wrong, I love e-ink displays. I've owned various e-ink readers for the past 14 years, with my most recent one being the new Kobo Libra Color. But e-ink will never be a good replacement for computer monitors (except in very specific cases). High resolution and high refresh rates are at odds with how the technology works at what makes it good as an e-reader.
That's definitely a physical limitation that's hard to fully resolve. If it gets to 60hz, it would likely use more power than OLED and wear out within a year. EFD (Eco-Friendly Display) or EFPD by Hannstar is an alternative technology that has a great balance.
Well, this timing is superb. I just received my color e-ink tablet yesterday. So far i'm actually impressed by how nice it is to use.
As i start the video, "huh, i wonder if they'll do anything with comics..." Linus turns on the monitor to a beautiful image from Watchmen. Love it.
Onyx Boox has a color tablet
Several series of them, spanning for few generations.
I really like my boox Nova C. I just got my Dasung color monitor and it's basically useless. Have the OG black and white one from them and really liked it- really unfortunate this one isn't able to bring together settings for any meaningful use case.
Color e-ink displays would be great for reading comics on an ereader.
There are already e-readers with color displays.
5:20 is totally a bootleg Tetris loading screen
As a musician, E-Ink tablets are preferred for sheet music, particularly when performing out doors in bright sunlight. I think this would also make a great dash board for a boat.
I would really like an e-ink e-reader... it's just that e-readers like the Kobo Aura and Clara Colour get normal e-reader sized screens, which is just working for normal comics. Especially since you want to zoom in more and the screens are quite slow.
But I don't think an e-in monitor is the best solution...
Sure, lots of people are saying why don't you use a tablet instead... but me for that's just way too tiring for my eyes.
Again, there's no evidence e-ink is better for your eyes.
If looking at your display is causing eye strain, it's either focus based (aka not blinking, etc.), which shouldn't differ for e-ink displays meaningfully, or it might be that your display is too bright, in which case, dim it, and possibly consider dark mode if you don't already.
I know I tend to use extensions and whatnot to force comics websites into darkmode.
There's E-ink tablets like the Boox lineups. They're great for comic and manga reading. They now have a new refresh rate tech that makes them refresh faster with less ghosting too.
@seigeengine ummm, where are you getting that e-ink isn't better for your eyes? There are multiple studies showing less visual fatigue when using e-ink.
@@GotoFail University websites.
Medical websites, particularly ophthalmology ones.
Basically anything that isn't social media or an e-ink display website, lol.
The only study I found suggesting e-ink displays are better appears to have been funded by e-ink display companies, and was so laughably bad that nobody literate would find it compelling.
Alexibexi also uploaded a terrible E Ink monitor today.
He uploaded the whole monitor?
Ah, I See You're a Man of Culture As Well
Who
Diese Kommentarsektion ist nun Eigentum der Bundesrepublik Deutschland.
From an information content standpoint this is good review. I like the detail on HOW the color eink actually works.
Would love to play a grindy game such as D2 on this monitor to not get eye strain
Now for some reason I'm imagining someone trying to play World of Warcraft on it. lol
That monitor is really reminding me of the Windows 95 days using the 256 colors setting.
While I absolutely love this technology, the low refresh rate and image retention would irk me so much that it's pretty much unusable. Would love to hear thoughts from someone that actually uses this or a similar display because a normal display doesn't work for them.
Fuck it, I'm buying a ReMarkable tablet.
Why swear like a child?
@@TehButterflyEffect Why are you getting offended over that lol
@@TehButterflyEffect Get over it bro. Swearing is a normal part of today's lingo.
@@TehButterflyEffect who cares
@@TehButterflyEffectwhy is it a problem?
My color e-ink phone case can’t even display green 😂
Woah where did you get a color e-ink phone case from!!??
Thst sounds like something fancy that IBM showed off for their cars. The military is also researching this for adaptive camouflage.
With what you were saying about eye strain from staring at a monitor all day, I do a lot of text editing, but I can control my environmental lighting, while folks in an office setting may not be able to, so I was able to tweak my monitors a lot(both 43"/109cm, one horizontal, one vertical, 4'/1.2 meters in front of me). I use f.lux set to 4000k, as well as back light brightness at minimum, and the lights in my room are set to 4000k, and at 3% brightness.
As a person that works in the optical industry; Digital eye strain is mostly due to the distance that the monitor is from your eyes. There ARE glasses lenses you can buy that counteract the issue with distance, however, your local optician would also tell you to rest by looking at something over 20 feet away.
The only gaming on that thing would be sudoku
Kinda the idea, isn't it?
What's wrong with that? Or chess/go...
Turn based games should be ok as well... Or MUD text games.
Colored e-ink? Lemme see
This would be elite for reading micro film in a library. I think that's the ideal use case
If your eyes hurt it's not the colour. It's the brightness. Put a piece of paper next to your monitor. If a white webpage is brighter than the reflected light off the paper, your brightness is too high. If you have natural light where you use your PC, run Twinkle Tray so you can change the brightness as the natural light changes. An IPS screen which can do this automatically with a very accurate brightness sensor would be the supreme monitor for eyestrain without tradeoffs.
Gamers: The graphics don't matter.
Dasung: Hold my RGB!
I used to say graphics don't matter, but now that we're in 2024 and Crysis had better graphics than almost anything that's been released TO THIS DAY, I'm getting really tired of "indy" and low-effort graphics in big-budget games. Borderlands was cute. Not everything needs to copy it. Consoles are destroying high-end graphics in games.
@@TehButterflyEffect Right, must be consoles when in reality our tech is still so bad that only 40 series can literally render slightly above mediocre looking games without using a ton of pop out on distances.
Also tf does it have to do with indie? The best graphics pushes literally come from the indie space.
Still waiting for an e-ink phone for better battery life
There already is one, the Hisense A9 PRO E INK. Also the Hisense A6L E Ink that has a normal screen on one side, and e-ink on the opposite, for the best of both worlds.
There's quite a few out there already
Bigme announced their hibreak just last month, its best to wait for reviews though, since its their first phone.
This seems really, really interesting. I wonder if it'd ever be possible/practical to use some E-Ink monitors for my productivity setup, since I have to stare at computers all day for coding. Maybe save my eyes some strain.
I'm digging the Ginger Root shirt lol
Looking forward to his DIY anime?
congrats for finding the one watchmen page you can put on youtube
I'm not trapped in this E-Ink monitor with you, you're trapped in this E-Ink monitor with me!!!
“You know what else is in color?…….this Segue to our Sponsor”
Segue*
I had so much hope for this for programming. Having colour coded code is such a nice to have feature but the low resolution makes this really hard to justify
You should review the Daylight tablet, seems to have some pretty crazy e-ink tech in it
E ink monitors? With colour? HERETICS
Colour instead of color??? HERETICSSS
@@lvn5609it’s British.
When will this beardless stranger era end??
When Linus has finished re-painting his motorcycle (it will be pink with a sparkle undercoat), he can't wear his respirator with a beard. Yvonne declared herself Team Beard early on, so it will be back.
@@Metal_Maxine hehe ok
I got a colour e-ink display on my boox e-reader. I really enjoy using it. So far I have noticed only two big downsides: Dark mode and anything with motion. But only dark mode bothers me
So it works like digital cameras do - each pixel only captures one color. It doesn't work quite as well as a display though, since you can't just run it through an interpolation algorithm to reconstruct full color for each pixel.
so its basically an electric etch-a-sketch
I feel like I'm being talked to like I'm a toddler
Don't be easily offended like a toddler XD
@@Hathos9 I'm not really offended I'm just voicing the feeling I got from this episode in hopes it improves the content
He often tries to explain relatively foreign tech like that. LMG is mainstream oriented, to appeal to a large audience, including non-techies. They have been educational in many ways imo.
Also, it is important to consider that not everyone is a subject matter expert in every topic. Let's say I design processors for a living. I am an expert with CPU architecture, but not with E-INK display tech. I don't want the video to assume I am an expert and use acronyms and terms that I would have to constantly pause to look up.
LTT makes videos for a large variety of topics, and nobody is going to be a subject matter expert for all of them, so their videos have to be easy to understand. This is different than channels that focus on a specific topic, like HDTVTest.