In my Top 10 of all time, 9/10 and love it dearly, but I've found this has to be one of the most divisive anime titles out there I can think of. This seems to be a "love it or hate it" experience (technically all anime and all shows are, but some more contentious than most, like this one). Reminds me of Eva in that way.
@@OutToLunch Same here ! I watched it a few years ago and in the end i was... "Huh?!" I don't think there's any shame in not understanding this anime. This level of philosophy of life, why we exist, these are questions that are not easily answered. I have nothing against deep stories that make you think, but that has its limits... so Lain and Texhnolyze are *slice of life anime* in comparison to Ergo Proxy.
It’s a little different because Eva is considered an all out classic, but it has a sizable dislike. Most people think it’s good, but it’s not as widely praised as something like Psycho Pass and Madoka Magica. I would say Eva is more like Attack on Titan with a sizable amount of people saying it’s overrated.
every single episode of the show has at least one philosophical concept as its theme. it manages to develop its previous philosophical themes with subtle details in the background or small seemingly unimportant conversations while making for interesting episodes that are for a big part directed fantastically. from my experience each episode was more interesting than the previous one, even not taking into account the philosophical themes being discussed secretly (and sometimes not so much secretly). the episode where they were stranded because there was no wind must be one of the best episodes of anime i have ever watched, idk how to explain it but the directing was so fantastic and they were able to develop these characters so naturally as well. im not even someone who enjoys pretentios intelectual shows like texhnolyze, tatami galaxy, flcl or stuff like that, but ergo proxy imo just had the right balance of being interesting on the surface while tackling very interesting themes throughout the show and referencing a lot of different stuff, and most of that you will catch on your 2nd watch. (or on some sites tou have these psychology majors that will point out the most subtle and hardcore psychological refferences which only makes you understand how much thought has been put into every episode while still keepijg them very interesting for the average viewer. (in this case i would say that average should be someone who has seen at least 100+ shows of different genres and stuff so that they are "warmed up" for this. all in all the world is very interesting and well done. the characters are interesting and their development is even better. the mystery and the plot of the show is fantastic, the animation and the music fit the show and the underlying philosophical themes just add onto the show (and most of them can be understood and appreciated by someone who has had the most surface level understanding of philosophy)
Wisdom is knowing that you don't know. So it's not a problem when it doesn't give you answers, just more questions. That's what philosophy IS. It's questions, not answers. This show didn't act like it was smarter than you, it was smarter than you.
I think the first 3 episodes are pretty good but the show kind of meanders for the next 12 episodes with Vincent repeating the same character arc and learning just about nothing. Iggy’s death is mostly inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and is debatably the lowest point of the whole show. The characters get somewhat of a face lift in episode 16 making them a bit more likable. I think the show finishes its run fairly strong but with lots of bumps along the way
this anime could have certainly been alot more (i think we can say that about ALOT of anime cant we?) but to call this dogshit???? in the current environment of MOE meme and trope regurgitation? shame... i love this anime but i am willing to admit that it has a bit to much of people just spouting exposition at each other (once again we can say this about ALOOOT of anime) but there is alot of nice subtle world building paired up with it.... EDIT: the game show episode is also a proxy battle, he killed like 10 proxies before ergo, the split personality episode is also a proxy battle
Does everyone who enjoys this show just like it cause its original? Who cares if it's original if it does absolutely nothing with its originality. It builds a world and an atmosphere and does fuck all with it. Super disappointing
You are judgmental and impatient. Some episodes are just weird and philosophical, just cos we're not going straight to answer the main plot line doesn't mean it's time wasted, some questions are just worth asking.
Just finished watching Ergo Proxy and had to find SOMEONE else who saw all these issues. I feel like the rest of the internet and I watched 2 different animes the way they talk about it. Your video was good and I hope you continue to do content in the future.
i mean, you could say you pretty much did if you thought that the superficial plot was the main aspect of the show, cuz it isnt. this whole video is criticizing the storytelling and direction of the plot while that's not at all what's relevant to most people who enjoy the show!
It's really hard not to just see this as an "I didn't understand the show; ergo, it's bad." Edit: The show actually does explain everything he's complaining about here, but it does it in a disjointed way that tries not to hold your hand and instead have you piece it together. Here's a video that explains it: ua-cam.com/video/Zndhoc4Wd-w/v-deo.html As mentioned in that video, EP is a show that needs to be watched a couple times at least in order for all the details to really sink in. The people who criticize it for being "pseudo-intellectual" or "pretentious" often overlook how much real philosophy is explored in the show and where these philosophical roots rest. Perhaps it's also the case that some of these critics don't know enough philosophy to understand what is actually being discussed, expressed, questioned, etc. as well.
The problem its that sometimes it really feels like they complicate everything with no reason, and the last 2 Chapters are bad, even after giving it a good amount of rewatches
Hey man just found you after I binged watched all of ergo proxy in the last 18 hours. I felt the same as you did. Gonna sub to you and hope u do more vids
I think another problem is that it missed out on the whole "losing your reason to be." Especially with that being a big thing in the show and how humans are created with specific traits. There is so much that isn't explained it makes me sad.
Huh? This was explained in detail during a lengthy conversation between the statues and Re-l as well as between Vincent and Proxy One during the last two episodes, discussing and rejecting a universal truth, in the show's case as it relates to Romdeau, a universal truth that everyone needs a specific reason for existing to, well, exist, and that instead, Re-l and Vincent can make something of their own truths i.e. find or even create their own reason to exist, which is the entire reason the ending works.
There's so many people praising this show so it's good to see someone point out the flaws. I think it would be better if it was compressed into 1 hour and better fleshed out because it's a bit of a mess.
I see ur point but the thing is Ergo Proxy is an anime that force u to deep dive into different existential questions and crtics of the society like the chapters are titled "meditatio". To understand the story u have to take it in global and you will understand. The details are important even in the weird and slow paced episodes. Everything will take u to the last chapter and u will understand ! There are four beings or four types of beings all interdependant of each over and yet all are trying to find freedom. U start like Vincent. U know nothing but u learn as the story evolves. Vincent is the viewer. Ur are in a quest and like life itself, u will never have a clear answer ! U only live trying to find ur truths thats why the open ending.
Humanitys over reliance on machines is explored when Re-l is separated from her robot for the first time. I guess they're trying to sell the point that we don't really need robots tho. Im surprised you didn't say anything about the inconsistencias in the art. I liked the anime, dispite of these flaws (some of the things that annoyed you I really liked) there is something else that bothers me and I can't really put my finger on it yet.
nice finish line, I really liked your style. new and refreshing. I stopped half way into the show because of the accumulated non sense some of which you described. like nothing kept me going into it, except the atmosphere apart of that maybe Pino character, but other aspects just didn't hook me. so I went to to youtube to learn the story since I wont finish it, a lot of explaining went into back stories and such which doesn't make the show better if you have to look for it outside or watch it twice as some claim. I feel like too much work went into symbolism and too little left for other aspects. keep it up hope you get better views you deserve it.
Thank you, I really appreciate it. I'm just about done with the script for my magnum opus so I should be filming that in a few days (ignore the fact that it's been literal months since I made a video). And I completely agree with you, Pino might be the only reason I finished the show
Perfectly title review. This series was extremely convoluted and underwhelming. Seems like an abridged version of something great except they left out most of the good parts. This show seems like a social experiment on the viewer.
I feel like people are forcing themselves to like this shit. After u peel back a few layers its nice but wtf for? A story that jumps around with slow and confusing world building that spoon feeds u a piece of the plot and then a random ass filler that u have to dissect which ends up being part of the story to then have to get mind fucked with dreams vs reality and split personalities to then find out its just multiple of everybody, that people don't know who they are or why they exist, and to finish it off with a less than satisfying ending.
Well you should know some people are better at picking up the story and points in the anime than others. When I watched ergo proxy, my understanding of each episode came sort of natural as I tried to interpret it using each detail and what previously happened. I didn't find it boring either, so it really is just a matter of personal taste
i mean i dont wanr to sound pretentious but you need to be somewhat deep into the anime culture to understand and appreciate the show fully. you cant deny that the underlying plot is very interesting and that the character development is as natural and as good as it gets. the philosophical themes are surface level enough that an average european high-school graduate should be able to have came in contact with them and have formed at least some type of opinion on them. the episodes arent random filler, you can say that you dont appreciate this type of show but not that its random shit, these filler episodes expand the world really well while developing characters and discussing philosophy which is one of the main themes of the show. the info dump imo was done really well and in a very unique way. most shows would have actual characters explain all this shit out of nowhere making it feel unnatural and stupid but in this case this was way too obviously intentionally stupid that it just worked. also most of those stupid random filler episodes were directed by people that worked on watanabe's samurai champloo and cowboy bebop which is why they feel very similar in style. (which goes for the entire show in general). so all in all you have the right not to like the show which is totally understandable because its not by any means a show made to please everyone, but its a very thoughtfully made show and you cant deny that.
(Sorry for my potential grammatical errors, English is not my native language) Yikes you missed a lot of points in the show. Idk if you were drunk while watching it and just didn't want to understand it, forcing yourself to hate it, or what. For example, hating on ep 16 is just denying Re-l's character development or your argument on ep 20 really makes it apparent that you didn't get the reason for Proxy One to be playing with Vicent's mind. Also, the quiz episode really doesn't explain the most important stuff of the world at all, but is just another proxy working with Proxy One to remember Vincent of his duty. Even though it's my favorite anime show of all time, I will admit that is a bit far from perfect but not cuz of your reasons. It's still the show talks to me the most on the intelectual level cuz how abrangent in themes and storytelling it is, is experimental not in the usual way which I appreciate and converges in a so damn smart way into it's main and most superficial theme at the end of the show. The main problem of the quiz show isn't that it's extremely expositive but that it is a facilitated of doing it's purpose and I won't deny that, but it still is extremely coherent with the worldbuilding and reason for it's existence. You hardly see a show like this with such a comedy tone within it. The characters actually have chemistry, not only in their natural interactions but also how the represent the show thematically, it's extremely cohesive and I really appreciate that behind all the problems I might have. The worldbuilding is far from that problematic, I would understand someone who thinks it's flawed by thinking really hard to find plotholes but that is a depreciation for everything the show does well. There is a lot of nuances since the beginning that gives sense to every single thing the show does it just doesn't scream all it's points and work behind it. Let's not forget the structural play of the show which is insane, is one of the most intrinsic things that makes it all have such a misunderstood complexity, the story before the story is way extense that it may seem, and again, it just doesn't scream the slow and well distributed pieces of information it throws to the characters and reflects to the viewer. Don't blame the show for limited human capacity to remember details, I would risk to say that is humanly impossible for you to get it all in a single watch (unless you a deductive genius or have photographic memory). Search a bit about the show and try rewatching it, so it all makes sense to you. There is logic, cohesive and solid interpretations on the plot. About the themes, you can dig on them all day and make yourself a thesis cuz that's what the is all about, truth (not only that). This kind of shows work with the viewer, it's normal for you to not connect with it if don't have that mindset, Ergo is a experimental show that revolutionize in way what is experimental in art (in an audiovisual medium at least). There is a lot of silly nitpicking in this video. Too bad you didn't like, it's fine really and the show is "hate it or love it", but there is a lot wrong mistaken arguments in this videos. Cleary based on subjetivity for the most part imo. Sorry for the long wall of text, I get excited when talking about this show and I hope you understood my point.
Ah yes, because instead of having Vincent learn about the world through exploring it, we should have him play jeopardy and tell him the worldbuilding. The episode also doesn't explain how the group ended up in that situation, Vincent doesn't seem to know where he is/what's going on, and Re-L and Pino are locked up, which I find hard to believe that Vincent would consensually allow that to happen. The reason you don't see a comedy episode like this is because it feels horribly out of place, and is incredibly off-putting. I did search a bit about the show and rewatch. I made this after rewatching the show. Before rewatching, I did a fair bit of looking into it, and I kept the wiki handy while watching to make sure I wasn't missing details. I disagree that there's some elaborate and complex structure to the show. It's story is a mess full of inconsistencies, and thematically it's hanging on by a thread. To call it revolutionary for audiovisual art is insane. The show quotes philosophers at random to try and make itself sound smart. Something that uses philosophy well is season one of Psycho Pass, where philosophy is only brought up as it's relevant, and to ask a bigger question of the way it's society is run. It never shoves it down your throat, only the minimal necessary amount is brought up, and then it moves on. The same cannot be said of Ergo Proxy. The quotes are often misused, forced on you endlessly, or have no real meaning other than to point out a commonly understood fact of life. It's meant for people that want to sound educated because they memorized a quote from Socrates without any understanding of it's actual application. I really do want to like the show. I think the first 3-5 episodes are stunning. But as of now, I stand by every point I made, and the show has only left me with disappointment. And what show that's considered one of the greatest of all time needs to be prefaced with, "you hate it or love it." Like, sorry bro, this Breaking Bad thing isn't for everyone, but it gets there, just give it a couple seasons.
@@OutToLunch (I didn't reread my answer, it might have some errors, sorry if so) You are missing the point of the show. Vincent's journey is about finding truth through Proxy One's manipulation and not is really own decisions, the only pure Vicent has hand on is his last decision when Monad asks him to die with her and he refuses, you have to remember why things are happening to him, why they give pieces of information here and there.. Ergo Proxy was created by Proxy One for getting revenge on the humans in space, for several reasons Ergo Proxy flees and runs away from his duty leaving Proxy One without his agent of death. Proxy One wants to restore Vicent's memories of Ergo Proxy so he forgets his human side and accepts his duty, he can't give it all at once cuz he wouldn't simply accept it neither believe in it, it's too hard of a burden. Proxy One architects Vicent's journey, it isn't a natural journey created by him which conflicts with the main themes of the show, even thought this journey feels quite organic, that is a bit illusory. From the beginning, the show shows glimpses of personality in the comedy department, it almost never tries to feel depressing or get hopelessness across, this personality is a crescendo the most the group pass time together, they cooperate with the hard situation they are on in their own way and a genuine feeling in the chemistry of the group really expresses an unique way of handling its ideas. This crescendo causes the acceptable placement of weird looking episodes like the quiz show, which makes both Vicent and the espectator in the same confused spot, the tone is built with precision to make it work while being constructed logicaly in reflection to the show's ideas and worldbuilding in general. How did Vicent get in the quiz episode? Because it isn't shown we can only wonder infinitely "how", a lot of scenarios can happen but we don't know (MQQ is also a Proxy, don't underestimate is power lmao). I don't think that's where you should look and think about when watching the show, you are free to wonder, but I don't think you have enough ground to criticize it. This being said, the themes of truth and raison d'être for example, are cohesively connected not only to Vicent's journey but also to Re-l's journey (by consequence for tagging along with Vincent) and Pino's journey in different ways. Even if Vicent's journey is highly manipulated, the interactions in between the group members impact Vincent as a human being, his love for Re-l isn't natural (the reason of his love is because she is a partial clone of Monad) but the impact on him feels genuine and organic. The conflict in all this is quite obvious then, when he regains his memories at last, he feels betrayed and that's where the final Proxy One's persuasion begins and we understand how Vicent shows he is a person, not a product but a person influenced by the environment that surrounds him and the events of his journey. His attachment to that journey (Re-l and Pino) is what makes him go on with his duty, but he is not only Ergo Proxy, he is Vicent Law and Ergo Proxy, they are finally one. Re-l gets a glimpse of her arc in Ophelia's episode that discusses with precision her double personality (if I can call it that) which is finally concluded in the Wind episode. It's not hard to understand how Re-l's arc discusses the feeling of being real and actually BEING real, but I won't talk about that now because this is getting long already. Pino is the easiest to understand, she is a guide for Vicent (she most likely represents the rabbit in Alice in the Wonderland) while representing the core of the show, think about how she is connected to what I told about Vincent. The think about the theme of duty is actually a criticism of japanese society, while people tend to not go out of his way just to not feel judged, it also reflects the way japaneses run way from their duty as a member of society. There is an interview with the writer and director where they talk a bit about this, I recommend it. Besides Descartes, think about the concept of Particle of God and how it works with Ergo Proxy's themes and plot. I would like to make it clear that Re-l remember Vicent of his human side so Proxy One wants Vicent to kill her because she is in the way, but this lines up importantly with the end of the show. Proxy One doesn't understand how Vincent was moldaded not only by him but by the events and moments with the group. He wasn't excepting a "new Monad" to appear in the final moments, she tried to persuade Vicent not to take revenge on the creators (humans). It ends up working out because Vincent rejects to killing Re-l. Fate is another one of Ergo Proxy's themes, not only Vincent represents a Deus ex Machina to the plot (which goes quite deep into the Particle of God thingy) but a lot lines up for the ending go the way it does, Vicent not killing Re-l lines up to monad appearing and Vincent accepting his duty and at last going against Proxies and humanity FATE. I could dig on this show forever, I defend it with everything I have, that's my duty. Also, in that last paragraph you generalized quite a bit. A lot of shows are not for everyone. Texhnolyze is a show that doesn't give a shit about the espectator, the painfully slow progression is on purpose but moves away a lot of people from liking it. Lain is another good example and I don't I need to explain why. Both shows make their purpose and message come across, but them both ask the espectator to cooperate in different ways. In Ergo I don't really why people hate it besides just hating cuz the experience wasn't good on a personal level, people leave way to many gaps in their justifications for disliking Ergo Proxy to an extent that the actually thing they come across is that they don't really don't know why either. Wikipedia doesn't seem to have a lot of information about the show, I would rather read the cureclover article which is pretty complete (not on the thematic level, there aren't any good articles about that imo)
What do you mean it never tries to be depressing or hopeless? It's bleak from the start. The people outside the dome live their lives being hunted by drones, clinging to the hope that they can go back to the dome. A kid is shot dead in episode 5. The episode before the quiz deals with a proxy trying to convince Vincent to commit suicide. So how is a comedic episode following that "acceptable placement"? I understand what the point of the show is supposed to be, I'm saying that that doesn't fill in the holes in it's story, or justify how it got there. The rampant use of philosophical quotes still comes across as entirely pretentious when you have to sit through it for 20 episodes before the show tries to contextualize it. By the time we get to the justification, the only feeling the show has left me with is annoyance while I pray for it to end. And as your comment reminded me, the same can be said of the use of raison d'être. Reason to be is already a phrase in English, so translating it to French comes across as an attempt to make the show seem more mysterious by adding unnecessary complexity to the scene. Like, oooo, we used a different language, what could the implications of that be? But for the people that don't know the phrase, they're left going, "the fuck are they saying?" The deep themes of a show are completely irrelevant when it's put you off from watching it. Instead of going, "Wow! What a good conclusion!" I find myself more in a position of "wow... is this done yet?" And I wasn't using Wikipedia, I was using the fandom wiki, which has all the information you listed. I didn't generalize at all. There are plenty of shows that you could say aren't for everyone, but the point was, none of the shows considered among the greatest of all time have that warning. In conclusion, bad show bad.
@@OutToLunch As I said, it ALMOST never tries to be depressing or hopeless. The point where I can view it as that is when Vicent is in his lowest point in the story cuz everything presented to him sucks, he just got unfairly expelled from Romdeau and he doesn't understand at all, he can't chase is human side and live as a normal citizen and he finally discovers that there is people and things outside Romdeau, even Proxy Ones expresses shitty depressing feelings and background through mind manipulation. But that's also where Vicent journey to find the real truth and himself begins, this is where Vicent achieves a true personality a long side Re-l and Pino, through events cause by Proxy One and others. This is why Vicent's goofy self starts to get a human shape and this why he finally cooperates with everything with a fixed mindset, thanks to a bitchy spoiled girl which is human, and a happy little auto-reiv. The cryptic tone of the show shifts a lot because of the crescendo chemistry in the main group of characters, an unique, goofy, human, genuine relationship. The episode before the quiz deals with heavy stuff but ends up on a good note, so I don't understand how it makes the show unable to make logical and accurate tone shifts. That same episode uses half of it with an incredible and hilarious dynamic in the group, great performance by Pino btw, it just transitions naturally into the real deal and main discussion in the second half. People don't usually criticize the quiz show for being held up on a comedy tone, just by feeling way different and experimental in the way reaching its objective. You are not making your points come across at all, it seem pure guesswork tbh. I explained several examples of how the show is cohesive in its work of themes, philosophical quotes and philosophical approach in general, there is a lot I didn't talk about because the show just has a lot to dig on, you can dig on it forever and still make sense. The reason for "raison d'être" not being translated to english is because the this topic is well known in philosophy by that same loanword, actually what kind of criticism is that?? The subject is on the core of the show and everything the show does with all its themes converges that one in a lot of ways. And now you are finally talking subjetive arguments, because the show happened to appeal a lot to me, but it just happened for you to don't care, which is fine but the show requires the espectator to deal all its thematic presentation or it will just feel all over the place like it felt to Vicent! The reason for Vincent to don't end up mind fucked is because he regained memories and is now one with Ergo Proxy and now understand the meaning of all its journey existence, while the viewer need to reach that point with help of deduction and interpretation. It's a very personal journey and reaches very deep within me, raising questions in multiple perspetives while cohesive to what's happening on the screen. I doubt the fandom wikipedia talks about everything I've said, a lot of it is interpretation especially when I put together thematic elements. I never said it was the best show ever. Also, a great show with that kind of "label" given by fans or wtv, doesn't mean that it's instantly bad. You are limiting art in that sentence, you are just thinking about unanimous opinions and ignoring more cryptic and experimental works that don't appeal appeal to the mass audience, shows that search an a lot more specific audience. I don't get your point. I don't have a lot more conceptual and intelectual works in my top 10 favorites, but yet Ergo happens to be my top 1 anime. There is a lot going on in the show, I can't say it's perfect, far from it, but it's sad that people also devalues it quite a lot.
@@guijcl3761 i love how you see the show! it amazes me to see a person go so dip into the anime. truly immaculate! this guy just didn’t wanna take the time to understand the show i literally hated every word he said in his video so much jeez. i’d say the same EP is my #1 anime or of 70+ animes one watched. even huge animes such as naruto, bleach, one piece, and WAY more! lol thanks for educating this guy abt this show
Takes on the show as a whole aside, EP game show episode defending is like shorthand for "my opinion is worthless." Just one of many pretentious pointless sidetracks for padding. A one season show w like half of it being padding
I agreed with a fair amount of what you said, especially in regards to the exposition dump in the gameshow episode and that pretentious Raison D'etre crap. That incessant repeating of that phrase in the show came across as if that the writers felt as if they couldn't convey the meaning correctly without directly explaining to the viewer so they felt they had to repeat it to convey it later on in the episode that explores Iggy much more. To sum up cause I don't want to write a UA-cam comment section essay, even though I disagree with most of what you said in the vid, I do agree that Ergo Proxy has some definite wasted potiential. The gameshow episode in particular really makes me think the writers felt they didnt have enough time to properly flesh out the world the way wanted to in a proper manner.
Been reading through the comments and the back and forth and I think generally I agree with you. My only two gripes are the thoughts on the shipwreck episode where it centers Re-L's development that you overlooked and the dub vs sub discussion. I think there's a case to be made that since part of the dubbing process is to match mouth movements, some words will be chosen as opposed others and that can affect the tone of a scene. (I agree that a dub wouldn't skew a characters motivations entirely) But yeah, I think Ergo Proxy is the poor man's Psycho Pass season 1 because it tries so hard to tell you "I'm smart!" with the poorly infused psychology, horrible exposition that have me lost even at the end, etc. It'd have been better if it tried to measure it's expectations with the amount of concepts it tried to explore which could have left more room for character development, pacing and an actual fucking soundtrack
I would add that more consistent action beats would help. The first couple episodes had me totally hooked with the gunplay and proxy fights. But at a point the lack of action really makes the story drag
My taste is wide and deep and so I can like many things, but one thing I cannot like is a badly crafted story as this is not a matter of taste.. Thanks for the heads up, dude.
Honestly, just don’t watch in dub. There is lot of nuance that can be lost in translation. There are honest criticisms here that I can agree with but others lose me. I can’t tell if it’s just the way dialogue is used in the English dub vs sub as well as the way voice actors sound. One thing I HATE about dub is that a lot of scenes won’t make sense or feel natural in englishdub. But when I switch to sub which is a literal direct translation it suddenly clicks. Character reasons for acting the way they do at certain points make more sense. But in dub just feels off. It’s disconnected and in a way almost two different shows. Idk. Been watching anime since I was 3. Now I’m 25. I still don’t trust the dub to faithfully translate not only the original voice actors emotions completely, but also any anime’s shows script as it was intended by the original creator. I would give ergo proxy a good 7.8. The exposition dump was a little egregious. But an otherwise good dreary post apocalyptic sci-fi adventure. Now try texchnolyze. This one at least doesn’t try to hold your hand as hard.
Yea man, I'm gonna have to disagree with you. I don't speak Japanese, so the same nuance is lost in the sub too, if not more since I can't pick up on the subtleties of a language I don't speak. Dubs are also translations, but the wording may get changed to sound like more naturally spoken English. But just because the wording gets changed, doesn't mean the meaning of the lines gets changed. There are plenty of ways to word a sentence and still have the same meaning, and people are being paid to make sure their translations are accurate. Also, I find it very hard to believe that the line deliveries are so vastly different between the sub and dub for a character's motivations, or the understanding of a scene to be changed. I watch a fairly even split of subbed and dubbed shows, and both have their pros and cons. Neither is innately better than the other, it depends show to show. And I'm not sure why you threw in that qualifier, but I've been watching anime just as long. It comes off as if you're trying to say your opinion is more valid since you've watched more, but our opinions have equal weight. Our generation grew up on pokemon, yugioh, naruto, dragon ball, sailor moon, etc. And even without that, the amount of time you've spent watching tv doesn't automatically mean you have good taste. Personally, I have shit taste, but I shouldn't need a resume of shows to voice my opinion on what I find to be poor writing.
@@OutToLunch This. The whole "dub vs sub" thing is retarded. If you need either of them, you *will* lose something in translation either way. The only difference is whether you're reading the translation or having it read to you.
how is evangelion pretentious at all, everything in the show is spoonfed to you, there is fighting and sex and rape going on, they fight a lot and then the show ends in a "pretentious" way you can say, but i dont see how else you would want a show to finish when they couldnt afford to do so any differently
Dude, you're not even critiquing the anime. You're just criticizing it. Also, all of the philosophical points, allusions to the Bible and Shakespeare seem to be lost on you. By wearing the make-up, which just makes you look like a sad dragqueen, it is like you are doing it just to mock RE-L's character design.
I just finished Ergo Proxy and came across this. I walked into this anime for the 3rd time after dropping it like 4-5 episodes in for how in the dark I was. "In medias res" I believe it was, meaning in the midst of things. We're already balls deep in the plot first episode in and I think that's what made me drop it several times. Honestly, even after reading each reddit thread on each episode I still don't fucking get it. I'm pretty sure theres layers of symbolism and allusions, but I'm not qualified or have the knowledge to comprehend that. One explanation explained that the reason the characters are so muted on personality is due to the tone the anime itself gives off most of the time. I believe that idea was highlighted in the slice of life episode, as even one might consider that "character development" at some moments, it just highlights their muted personalities. It's not something I'm used to, since most of my anime consumption is filled with romcoms, slice of life, Ace Attorney, and 2 mecha animes (evangelion and gurren lagaan) Everytime the word personality was thrown around, I instantly started mouthing YNW Melly's "Mixed Personalities" cuz of how confused I was. I can say with confidence this is the most serious anime I've watched. Despite how all over the place the second half went about (game show, slice of life, pino's acidtrip, etc), I can say I've enjoyed it, especially that second half for how stupid and trippy it was. Also, hopefully we can agree that Re-L is an evanescence type BADDIE, Pino is Pino, and Daeda-cuck 5000 can rot in simpcity.
man i wish i had a robo gf
Not surprised a JoJo fan didn’t get it
In my Top 10 of all time, 9/10 and love it dearly, but I've found this has to be one of the most divisive anime titles out there I can think of. This seems to be a "love it or hate it" experience (technically all anime and all shows are, but some more contentious than most, like this one). Reminds me of Eva in that way.
I appreciate the understanding. It's a show that I really want to like, but just haven't been able to yet.
@@OutToLunch Same here ! I watched it a few years ago and in the end i was... "Huh?!"
I don't think there's any shame in not understanding this anime. This level of philosophy of life, why we exist, these are questions that are not easily answered.
I have nothing against deep stories that make you think, but that has its limits... so Lain and Texhnolyze are *slice of life anime* in comparison to Ergo Proxy.
It’s a little different because Eva is considered an all out classic, but it has a sizable dislike. Most people think it’s good, but it’s not as widely praised as something like Psycho Pass and Madoka Magica. I would say Eva is more like Attack on Titan with a sizable amount of people saying it’s overrated.
every single episode of the show has at least one philosophical concept as its theme. it manages to develop its previous philosophical themes with subtle details in the background or small seemingly unimportant conversations while making for interesting episodes that are for a big part directed fantastically. from my experience each episode was more interesting than the previous one, even not taking into account the philosophical themes being discussed secretly (and sometimes not so much secretly). the episode where they were stranded because there was no wind must be one of the best episodes of anime i have ever watched, idk how to explain it but the directing was so fantastic and they were able to develop these characters so naturally as well. im not even someone who enjoys pretentios intelectual shows like texhnolyze, tatami galaxy, flcl or stuff like that, but ergo proxy imo just had the right balance of being interesting on the surface while tackling very interesting themes throughout the show and referencing a lot of different stuff, and most of that you will catch on your 2nd watch. (or on some sites tou have these psychology majors that will point out the most subtle and hardcore psychological refferences which only makes you understand how much thought has been put into every episode while still keepijg them very interesting for the average viewer. (in this case i would say that average should be someone who has seen at least 100+ shows of different genres and stuff so that they are "warmed up" for this.
all in all the world is very interesting and well done. the characters are interesting and their development is even better. the mystery and the plot of the show is fantastic, the animation and the music fit the show and the underlying philosophical themes just add onto the show (and most of them can be understood and appreciated by someone who has had the most surface level understanding of philosophy)
in the future eyeliner will be mandatory
Wisdom is knowing that you don't know. So it's not a problem when it doesn't give you answers, just more questions. That's what philosophy IS. It's questions, not answers. This show didn't act like it was smarter than you, it was smarter than you.
I think the first 3 episodes are pretty good but the show kind of meanders for the next 12 episodes with Vincent repeating the same character arc and learning just about nothing. Iggy’s death is mostly inconsequential in the grand scheme of things and is debatably the lowest point of the whole show. The characters get somewhat of a face lift in episode 16 making them a bit more likable. I think the show finishes its run fairly strong but with lots of bumps along the way
this anime could have certainly been alot more (i think we can say that about ALOT of anime cant we?) but to call this dogshit???? in the current environment of MOE meme and trope regurgitation? shame... i love this anime but i am willing to admit that it has a bit to much of people just spouting exposition at each other (once again we can say this about ALOOOT of anime) but there is alot of nice subtle world building paired up with it.... EDIT: the game show episode is also a proxy battle, he killed like 10 proxies before ergo, the split personality episode is also a proxy battle
yes i think the proxy battles episodes where obvious
Does everyone who enjoys this show just like it cause its original? Who cares if it's original if it does absolutely nothing with its originality. It builds a world and an atmosphere and does fuck all with it. Super disappointing
You’re gonna tell me with a straight face that Ergo Proxy is better than K-On or Bocchi the Rock? C’mon man.
@@thomasffrench3639No way you can sit here with a straight face and say K-On is better than ergo proxy 😭.
You are judgmental and impatient. Some episodes are just weird and philosophical, just cos we're not going straight to answer the main plot line doesn't mean it's time wasted, some questions are just worth asking.
Just finished watching Ergo Proxy and had to find SOMEONE else who saw all these issues. I feel like the rest of the internet and I watched 2 different animes the way they talk about it. Your video was good and I hope you continue to do content in the future.
i mean, you could say you pretty much did if you thought that the superficial plot was the main aspect of the show, cuz it isnt. this whole video is criticizing the storytelling and direction of the plot while that's not at all what's relevant to most people who enjoy the show!
Ironically the episode where the crew is stranded and the cartoon episode are pretty much the only episodes I enjoyed lol
I rewatched this a few days ago and I must admit, it helped a looooot. Many more details caught
It's really hard not to just see this as an "I didn't understand the show; ergo, it's bad."
Edit: The show actually does explain everything he's complaining about here, but it does it in a disjointed way that tries not to hold your hand and instead have you piece it together. Here's a video that explains it: ua-cam.com/video/Zndhoc4Wd-w/v-deo.html
As mentioned in that video, EP is a show that needs to be watched a couple times at least in order for all the details to really sink in. The people who criticize it for being "pseudo-intellectual" or "pretentious" often overlook how much real philosophy is explored in the show and where these philosophical roots rest. Perhaps it's also the case that some of these critics don't know enough philosophy to understand what is actually being discussed, expressed, questioned, etc. as well.
The problem its that sometimes it really feels like they complicate everything with no reason, and the last 2 Chapters are bad, even after giving it a good amount of rewatches
Nar sorry i utterly loved it, i completely and utterly disagree with you sorry
Hey man just found you after I binged watched all of ergo proxy in the last 18 hours. I felt the same as you did. Gonna sub to you and hope u do more vids
It's not perfect, but it has some cool ideas.
I think another problem is that it missed out on the whole "losing your reason to be." Especially with that being a big thing in the show and how humans are created with specific traits. There is so much that isn't explained it makes me sad.
Huh? This was explained in detail during a lengthy conversation between the statues and Re-l as well as between Vincent and Proxy One during the last two episodes, discussing and rejecting a universal truth, in the show's case as it relates to Romdeau, a universal truth that everyone needs a specific reason for existing to, well, exist, and that instead, Re-l and Vincent can make something of their own truths i.e. find or even create their own reason to exist, which is the entire reason the ending works.
There's so many people praising this show so it's good to see someone point out the flaws. I think it would be better if it was compressed into 1 hour and better fleshed out because it's a bit of a mess.
I see ur point but the thing is Ergo Proxy is an anime that force u to deep dive into different existential questions and crtics of the society like the chapters are titled "meditatio". To understand the story u have to take it in global and you will understand. The details are important even in the weird and slow paced episodes. Everything will take u to the last chapter and u will understand ! There are four beings or four types of beings all interdependant of each over and yet all are trying to find freedom. U start like Vincent. U know nothing but u learn as the story evolves. Vincent is the viewer. Ur are in a quest and like life itself, u will never have a clear answer ! U only live trying to find ur truths thats why the open ending.
ITS IS SUPPOSED TO FEEL DISCONNECTED 🤣
Humanitys over reliance on machines is explored when Re-l is separated from her robot for the first time. I guess they're trying to sell the point that we don't really need robots tho. Im surprised you didn't say anything about the inconsistencias in the art. I liked the anime, dispite of these flaws (some of the things that annoyed you I really liked) there is something else that bothers me and I can't really put my finger on it yet.
nice finish line, I really liked your style. new and refreshing.
I stopped half way into the show because of the accumulated non sense some of which you described.
like nothing kept me going into it, except the atmosphere apart of that maybe Pino character, but other aspects just didn't hook me.
so I went to to youtube to learn the story since I wont finish it, a lot of explaining went into back stories and such which doesn't make the show better if you have to look for it outside or watch it twice as some claim.
I feel like too much work went into symbolism and too little left for other aspects.
keep it up hope you get better views you deserve it.
Thank you, I really appreciate it. I'm just about done with the script for my magnum opus so I should be filming that in a few days (ignore the fact that it's been literal months since I made a video). And I completely agree with you, Pino might be the only reason I finished the show
Yes the concept is great, and the dark tone of the animation and music are mu cup of tea. But...sadly it could have been executed AlOT better
It has a fucking disney tier ending 💀
Perfectly title review. This series was extremely convoluted and underwhelming. Seems like an abridged version of something great except they left out most of the good parts. This show seems like a social experiment on the viewer.
I feel like people are forcing themselves to like this shit. After u peel back a few layers its nice but wtf for? A story that jumps around with slow and confusing world building that spoon feeds u a piece of the plot and then a random ass filler that u have to dissect which ends up being part of the story to then have to get mind fucked with dreams vs reality and split personalities to then find out its just multiple of everybody, that people don't know who they are or why they exist, and to finish it off with a less than satisfying ending.
Well you should know some people are better at picking up the story and points in the anime than others. When I watched ergo proxy, my understanding of each episode came sort of natural as I tried to interpret it using each detail and what previously happened. I didn't find it boring either, so it really is just a matter of personal taste
i mean i dont wanr to sound pretentious but you need to be somewhat deep into the anime culture to understand and appreciate the show fully. you cant deny that the underlying plot is very interesting and that the character development is as natural and as good as it gets. the philosophical themes are surface level enough that an average european high-school graduate should be able to have came in contact with them and have formed at least some type of opinion on them.
the episodes arent random filler, you can say that you dont appreciate this type of show but not that its random shit, these filler episodes expand the world really well while developing characters and discussing philosophy which is one of the main themes of the show. the info dump imo was done really well and in a very unique way. most shows would have actual characters explain all this shit out of nowhere making it feel unnatural and stupid but in this case this was way too obviously intentionally stupid that it just worked.
also most of those stupid random filler episodes were directed by people that worked on watanabe's samurai champloo and cowboy bebop which is why they feel very similar in style. (which goes for the entire show in general).
so all in all you have the right not to like the show which is totally understandable because its not by any means a show made to please everyone, but its a very thoughtfully made show and you cant deny that.
@@TriggerHappyThoughtsye exactly
Hi. You're wrong. Stick to shonen. Bye now.
(Sorry for my potential grammatical errors, English is not my native language)
Yikes you missed a lot of points in the show. Idk if you were drunk while watching it and just didn't want to understand it, forcing yourself to hate it, or what.
For example, hating on ep 16 is just denying Re-l's character development or your argument on ep 20 really makes it apparent that you didn't get the reason for Proxy One to be playing with Vicent's mind. Also, the quiz episode really doesn't explain the most important stuff of the world at all, but is just another proxy working with Proxy One to remember Vincent of his duty.
Even though it's my favorite anime show of all time, I will admit that is a bit far from perfect but not cuz of your reasons. It's still the show talks to me the most on the intelectual level cuz how abrangent in themes and storytelling it is, is experimental not in the usual way which I appreciate and converges in a so damn smart way into it's main and most superficial theme at the end of the show. The main problem of the quiz show isn't that it's extremely expositive but that it is a facilitated of doing it's purpose and I won't deny that, but it still is extremely coherent with the worldbuilding and reason for it's existence. You hardly see a show like this with such a comedy tone within it. The characters actually have chemistry, not only in their natural interactions but also how the represent the show thematically, it's extremely cohesive and I really appreciate that behind all the problems I might have.
The worldbuilding is far from that problematic, I would understand someone who thinks it's flawed by thinking really hard to find plotholes but that is a depreciation for everything the show does well. There is a lot of nuances since the beginning that gives sense to every single thing the show does it just doesn't scream all it's points and work behind it. Let's not forget the structural play of the show which is insane, is one of the most intrinsic things that makes it all have such a misunderstood complexity, the story before the story is way extense that it may seem, and again, it just doesn't scream the slow and well distributed pieces of information it throws to the characters and reflects to the viewer. Don't blame the show for limited human capacity to remember details, I would risk to say that is humanly impossible for you to get it all in a single watch (unless you a deductive genius or have
photographic memory).
Search a bit about the show and try rewatching it, so it all makes sense to you. There is logic, cohesive and solid interpretations on the plot. About the themes, you can dig on them all day and make yourself a thesis cuz that's what the is all about, truth (not only that). This kind of shows work with the viewer, it's normal for you to not connect with it if don't have that mindset, Ergo is a experimental show that revolutionize in way what is experimental in art (in an audiovisual medium at least).
There is a lot of silly nitpicking in this video.
Too bad you didn't like, it's fine really and the show is "hate it or love it", but there is a lot wrong mistaken arguments in this videos. Cleary based on subjetivity for the most part imo.
Sorry for the long wall of text, I get excited when talking about this show and I hope you understood my point.
Ah yes, because instead of having Vincent learn about the world through exploring it, we should have him play jeopardy and tell him the worldbuilding. The episode also doesn't explain how the group ended up in that situation, Vincent doesn't seem to know where he is/what's going on, and Re-L and Pino are locked up, which I find hard to believe that Vincent would consensually allow that to happen. The reason you don't see a comedy episode like this is because it feels horribly out of place, and is incredibly off-putting.
I did search a bit about the show and rewatch. I made this after rewatching the show. Before rewatching, I did a fair bit of looking into it, and I kept the wiki handy while watching to make sure I wasn't missing details. I disagree that there's some elaborate and complex structure to the show. It's story is a mess full of inconsistencies, and thematically it's hanging on by a thread. To call it revolutionary for audiovisual art is insane. The show quotes philosophers at random to try and make itself sound smart. Something that uses philosophy well is season one of Psycho Pass, where philosophy is only brought up as it's relevant, and to ask a bigger question of the way it's society is run. It never shoves it down your throat, only the minimal necessary amount is brought up, and then it moves on. The same cannot be said of Ergo Proxy. The quotes are often misused, forced on you endlessly, or have no real meaning other than to point out a commonly understood fact of life. It's meant for people that want to sound educated because they memorized a quote from Socrates without any understanding of it's actual application.
I really do want to like the show. I think the first 3-5 episodes are stunning. But as of now, I stand by every point I made, and the show has only left me with disappointment.
And what show that's considered one of the greatest of all time needs to be prefaced with, "you hate it or love it." Like, sorry bro, this Breaking Bad thing isn't for everyone, but it gets there, just give it a couple seasons.
@@OutToLunch
(I didn't reread my answer, it might have some errors, sorry if so)
You are missing the point of the show. Vincent's journey is about finding truth through Proxy One's manipulation and not is really own decisions, the only pure Vicent has hand on is his last decision when Monad asks him to die with her and he refuses, you have to remember why things are happening to him, why they give pieces of information here and there.. Ergo Proxy was created by Proxy One for getting revenge on the humans in space, for several reasons Ergo Proxy flees and runs away from his duty leaving Proxy One without his agent of death. Proxy One wants to restore Vicent's memories of Ergo Proxy so he forgets his human side and accepts his duty, he can't give it all at once cuz he wouldn't simply accept it neither believe in it, it's too hard of a burden. Proxy One architects Vicent's journey, it isn't a natural journey created by him which conflicts with the main themes of the show, even thought this journey feels quite organic, that is a bit illusory. From the beginning, the show shows glimpses of personality in the comedy department, it almost never tries to feel depressing or get hopelessness across, this personality is a crescendo the most the group pass time together, they cooperate with the hard situation they are on in their own way and a genuine feeling in the chemistry of the group really expresses an unique way of handling its ideas. This crescendo causes the acceptable placement of weird looking episodes like the quiz show, which makes both Vicent and the espectator in the same confused spot, the tone is built with precision to make it work while being constructed logicaly in reflection to the show's ideas and worldbuilding in general.
How did Vicent get in the quiz episode? Because it isn't shown we can only wonder infinitely "how", a lot of scenarios can happen but we don't know (MQQ is also a Proxy, don't underestimate is power lmao). I don't think that's where you should look and think about when watching the show, you are free to wonder, but I don't think you have enough ground to criticize it.
This being said, the themes of truth and raison d'être for example, are cohesively connected not only to Vicent's journey but also to Re-l's journey (by consequence for tagging along with Vincent) and Pino's journey in different ways. Even if Vicent's journey is highly manipulated, the interactions in between the group members impact Vincent as a human being, his love for Re-l isn't natural (the reason of his love is because she is a partial clone of Monad) but the impact on him feels genuine and organic. The conflict in all this is quite obvious then, when he regains his memories at last, he feels betrayed and that's where the final Proxy One's persuasion begins and we understand how Vicent shows he is a person, not a product but a person influenced by
the environment that surrounds him and the events of his journey. His attachment to that journey (Re-l and Pino) is what makes him go on with his duty, but he is not only Ergo Proxy, he is Vicent Law and Ergo Proxy, they are finally one.
Re-l gets a glimpse of her arc in Ophelia's episode that discusses with precision her
double personality (if I can call it that) which is finally concluded in the Wind episode. It's not hard to understand how Re-l's arc discusses the feeling of being real and actually BEING real, but I won't talk about that now because this is getting long already.
Pino is the easiest to understand, she is a guide for Vicent (she most likely represents the rabbit in Alice in the Wonderland) while representing the core of the show, think about how she is connected to what I told about Vincent.
The think about the theme of duty is actually
a criticism of japanese society, while people tend to not go out of his way just to not feel judged, it also reflects the way japaneses run way from their duty as a member of society. There is an interview with the writer and director where they talk a bit about this, I recommend it.
Besides Descartes, think about the concept of Particle of God and how it works with Ergo Proxy's themes and plot.
I would like to make it clear that Re-l remember Vicent of his human side so Proxy One wants Vicent to kill her because she is in the way, but this
lines up importantly with the end of the show. Proxy One doesn't understand how Vincent was moldaded not only by him but by the events and moments with the group. He wasn't excepting a "new Monad" to appear in the final moments, she tried to persuade Vicent not to take revenge on the creators (humans). It ends up working out because Vincent rejects to killing Re-l. Fate is another one of Ergo Proxy's themes, not only Vincent represents a Deus ex Machina to the plot (which goes quite deep into the Particle of God thingy) but a lot lines up for the ending go the way it does, Vicent not killing Re-l lines up to monad appearing and Vincent accepting his duty and at last going against Proxies and humanity FATE.
I could dig on this show forever, I defend it with everything I have, that's my duty.
Also, in that last paragraph you generalized quite a bit. A lot of shows are not for everyone. Texhnolyze is a show that doesn't give a shit about the espectator, the painfully slow progression is on purpose but moves away a lot of people from liking it. Lain is another good example and I don't I need to explain why. Both shows make their purpose and message come across, but them both ask the espectator to cooperate in different ways. In Ergo I don't really why people hate it besides just hating cuz the experience wasn't good on a personal level, people leave way to many gaps in their justifications for disliking Ergo Proxy to an extent that the actually thing they come across is that they don't really don't know why either.
Wikipedia doesn't seem to have a lot of information about the show, I would rather read the cureclover article which is pretty complete (not on the thematic level, there aren't any good articles about that imo)
What do you mean it never tries to be depressing or hopeless? It's bleak from the start. The people outside the dome live their lives being hunted by drones, clinging to the hope that they can go back to the dome. A kid is shot dead in episode 5. The episode before the quiz deals with a proxy trying to convince Vincent to commit suicide. So how is a comedic episode following that "acceptable placement"?
I understand what the point of the show is supposed to be, I'm saying that that doesn't fill in the holes in it's story, or justify how it got there. The rampant use of philosophical quotes still comes across as entirely pretentious when you have to sit through it for 20 episodes before the show tries to contextualize it. By the time we get to the justification, the only feeling the show has left me with is annoyance while I pray for it to end. And as your comment reminded me, the same can be said of the use of raison d'être. Reason to be is already a phrase in English, so translating it to French comes across as an attempt to make the show seem more mysterious by adding unnecessary complexity to the scene. Like, oooo, we used a different language, what could the implications of that be? But for the people that don't know the phrase, they're left going, "the fuck are they saying?" The deep themes of a show are completely irrelevant when it's put you off from watching it. Instead of going, "Wow! What a good conclusion!" I find myself more in a position of "wow... is this done yet?" And I wasn't using Wikipedia, I was using the fandom wiki, which has all the information you listed.
I didn't generalize at all. There are plenty of shows that you could say aren't for everyone, but the point was, none of the shows considered among the greatest of all time have that warning. In conclusion, bad show bad.
@@OutToLunch As I said, it ALMOST never tries to be depressing or hopeless. The point where I can view it as that is when Vicent is in his lowest point in the story cuz everything presented to him sucks, he just got unfairly expelled from
Romdeau and he doesn't understand at all, he can't chase is human side and live as a normal citizen and he finally discovers that there is people and things outside Romdeau, even Proxy Ones expresses shitty depressing feelings and background through mind manipulation. But that's also where Vicent journey to find the real truth and himself begins, this is where Vicent achieves a true personality a long side Re-l and Pino, through events cause by Proxy One
and others. This is why Vicent's goofy self starts to get a human shape and this why he finally cooperates with everything with a fixed mindset, thanks to a bitchy spoiled girl which is human, and a happy little auto-reiv. The cryptic tone of the show shifts a lot because of the crescendo chemistry in the main group of characters, an unique, goofy, human, genuine relationship.
The episode before the quiz deals with heavy stuff but ends up on a good note, so I don't understand how it makes the show unable to make logical and accurate tone shifts. That same episode uses half of it with an incredible and hilarious dynamic in the group, great performance by Pino btw, it just transitions naturally into the real deal and main discussion in the second half.
People don't usually criticize the quiz show for being held up on a comedy tone, just by feeling way different and experimental in the way reaching its objective.
You are not making your points come across at all, it seem pure guesswork tbh. I explained several examples of how the show is cohesive in its work of themes, philosophical quotes and philosophical approach in general, there is a lot I didn't talk about because the show just has a lot to dig on, you can dig on it forever and still make sense.
The reason for "raison d'être" not being translated to english is because the this topic is well known in philosophy by that same loanword, actually what kind of criticism is that?? The subject is on the core of the show and everything the show does with all its themes converges that one in a lot of ways.
And now you are finally talking subjetive arguments, because the show happened to appeal a lot to me, but it just happened for you to don't care, which is fine but the show requires the espectator to deal all its thematic presentation or it will just feel all over the place like it felt to Vicent! The reason for Vincent to don't end up mind fucked is because he regained memories and is now one with Ergo Proxy and now understand the meaning of all its journey existence, while the viewer need to reach that point with help of deduction and interpretation. It's a very personal journey and reaches very deep within me, raising questions in multiple perspetives while cohesive to what's happening on the screen.
I doubt the fandom wikipedia talks about everything I've said, a lot of it is interpretation especially when I put together thematic elements.
I never said it was the best show ever. Also, a great show with that kind of "label" given by fans or wtv, doesn't mean that it's instantly bad.
You are limiting art in that sentence, you are just thinking about unanimous opinions and ignoring more cryptic and experimental works that don't appeal
appeal to the mass audience, shows that search an a lot more specific audience. I don't get your point.
I don't have a lot more conceptual and intelectual works in my top 10 favorites, but yet Ergo happens to be my top 1 anime. There is a lot going on in the show, I can't say it's perfect, far from it, but it's sad that people also devalues it quite a lot.
@@guijcl3761 i love how you see the show! it amazes me to see a person go so dip into the anime. truly immaculate! this guy just didn’t wanna take the time to understand the show i literally hated every word he said in his video so much jeez. i’d say the same EP is my #1 anime or of 70+ animes one watched. even huge animes such as naruto, bleach, one piece, and WAY more! lol thanks for educating this guy abt this show
It's great until they leave the city than it turns into absolute trash
0:43 & cowboy bebop
😂😂😂 0:51 naw just image of Ivy’s forced personality from Re-L
2:15 yesss that ep was just an exposition dump for tha background behind a game show but it was interestin
5:07 lol I see it lost you there. Layered yeah
10:22 lmao I see all tha silent hill went over ya head lol naw dope perspective
12:37 I believe no char is actually human! & rule 34, but no Raul was married & you watch his wife die at tha beginnin! Pino was his bot
Takes on the show as a whole aside, EP game show episode defending is like shorthand for "my opinion is worthless." Just one of many pretentious pointless sidetracks for padding. A one season show w like half of it being padding
I agreed with a fair amount of what you said, especially in regards to the exposition dump in the gameshow episode and that pretentious Raison D'etre crap. That incessant repeating of that phrase in the show came across as if that the writers felt as if they couldn't convey the meaning correctly without directly explaining to the viewer so they felt they had to repeat it to convey it later on in the episode that explores Iggy much more. To sum up cause I don't want to write a UA-cam comment section essay, even though I disagree with most of what you said in the vid, I do agree that Ergo Proxy has some definite wasted potiential. The gameshow episode in particular really makes me think the writers felt they didnt have enough time to properly flesh out the world the way wanted to in a proper manner.
Hey, you know what? We don't have to agree, and that's fine. I appreciate you being cool and respectful about it, and I thank you for hearing me out
When is lunch over?
I've been debating for a week whether I want to say never, or god I hope soon, so you win
Been reading through the comments and the back and forth and I think generally I agree with you. My only two gripes are the thoughts on the shipwreck episode where it centers Re-L's development that you overlooked and the dub vs sub discussion. I think there's a case to be made that since part of the dubbing process is to match mouth movements, some words will be chosen as opposed others and that can affect the tone of a scene. (I agree that a dub wouldn't skew a characters motivations entirely)
But yeah, I think Ergo Proxy is the poor man's Psycho Pass season 1 because it tries so hard to tell you "I'm smart!" with the poorly infused psychology, horrible exposition that have me lost even at the end, etc. It'd have been better if it tried to measure it's expectations with the amount of concepts it tried to explore which could have left more room for character development, pacing and an actual fucking soundtrack
I never thought I'd see the day when someone agreed with me. You're the hero I've been waiting for
I would add that more consistent action beats would help. The first couple episodes had me totally hooked with the gunplay and proxy fights. But at a point the lack of action really makes the story drag
My taste is wide and deep and so I can like many things, but one thing I cannot like is a badly crafted story as this is not a matter of taste.. Thanks for the heads up, dude.
if your taste is so wide and deep you could have an appreciation for the show while still not liking it.
Stockholm syndrome 😭😭
Honestly, just don’t watch in dub. There is lot of nuance that can be lost in translation. There are honest criticisms here that I can agree with but others lose me. I can’t tell if it’s just the way dialogue is used in the English dub vs sub as well as the way voice actors sound. One thing I HATE about dub is that a lot of scenes won’t make sense or feel natural in englishdub. But when I switch to sub which is a literal direct translation it suddenly clicks. Character reasons for acting the way they do at certain points make more sense. But in dub just feels off. It’s disconnected and in a way almost two different shows. Idk. Been watching anime since I was 3. Now I’m 25. I still don’t trust the dub to faithfully translate not only the original voice actors emotions completely, but also any anime’s shows script as it was intended by the original creator. I would give ergo proxy a good 7.8. The exposition dump was a little egregious. But an otherwise good dreary post apocalyptic sci-fi adventure.
Now try texchnolyze. This one at least doesn’t try to hold your hand as hard.
what zero dubs does to a man
Yea man, I'm gonna have to disagree with you. I don't speak Japanese, so the same nuance is lost in the sub too, if not more since I can't pick up on the subtleties of a language I don't speak. Dubs are also translations, but the wording may get changed to sound like more naturally spoken English. But just because the wording gets changed, doesn't mean the meaning of the lines gets changed. There are plenty of ways to word a sentence and still have the same meaning, and people are being paid to make sure their translations are accurate. Also, I find it very hard to believe that the line deliveries are so vastly different between the sub and dub for a character's motivations, or the understanding of a scene to be changed.
I watch a fairly even split of subbed and dubbed shows, and both have their pros and cons. Neither is innately better than the other, it depends show to show. And I'm not sure why you threw in that qualifier, but I've been watching anime just as long. It comes off as if you're trying to say your opinion is more valid since you've watched more, but our opinions have equal weight. Our generation grew up on pokemon, yugioh, naruto, dragon ball, sailor moon, etc. And even without that, the amount of time you've spent watching tv doesn't automatically mean you have good taste. Personally, I have shit taste, but I shouldn't need a resume of shows to voice my opinion on what I find to be poor writing.
@@OutToLunch
This. The whole "dub vs sub" thing is retarded. If you need either of them, you *will* lose something in translation either way. The only difference is whether you're reading the translation or having it read to you.
Nuh-uh
I stopped gave Ergo oppurtinities until cap 10, its boring just hearing
Amen 🙏
You're pretty spot on, ergo proxy was the most pretentious thing Iv'e ever seen. and I watched evan gellion
how is evangelion pretentious at all, everything in the show is spoonfed to you, there is fighting and sex and rape going on, they fight a lot and then the show ends in a "pretentious" way you can say, but i dont see how else you would want a show to finish when they couldnt afford to do so any differently
Dude, you're not even critiquing the anime. You're just criticizing it. Also, all of the philosophical points, allusions to the Bible and Shakespeare seem to be lost on you. By wearing the make-up, which just makes you look like a sad dragqueen, it is like you are doing it just to mock RE-L's character design.
Damn if you didn't like the makeup, wait until you see the clip of me in a dress
my guy your name is naruto99124 you are in no position to call people sad
Glad I'm not the only one who found this anime to be boring, pointless, and an epic waste of time. Great video, you really hit the nail on the head.
how tho, all of his complaints are subjective nitpicks?
I just finished Ergo Proxy and came across this. I walked into this anime for the 3rd time after dropping it like 4-5 episodes in for how in the dark I was. "In medias res" I believe it was, meaning in the midst of things. We're already balls deep in the plot first episode in and I think that's what made me drop it several times.
Honestly, even after reading each reddit thread on each episode I still don't fucking get it. I'm pretty sure theres layers of symbolism and allusions, but I'm not qualified or have the knowledge to comprehend that. One explanation explained that the reason the characters are so muted on personality is due to the tone the anime itself gives off most of the time. I believe that idea was highlighted in the slice of life episode, as even one might consider that "character development" at some moments, it just highlights their muted personalities. It's not something I'm used to, since most of my anime consumption is filled with romcoms, slice of life, Ace Attorney, and 2 mecha animes (evangelion and gurren lagaan)
Everytime the word personality was thrown around, I instantly started mouthing YNW Melly's "Mixed Personalities" cuz of how confused I was.
I can say with confidence this is the most serious anime I've watched. Despite how all over the place the second half went about (game show, slice of life, pino's acidtrip, etc), I can say I've enjoyed it, especially that second half for how stupid and trippy it was.
Also, hopefully we can agree that Re-L is an evanescence type BADDIE, Pino is Pino, and Daeda-cuck 5000 can rot in simpcity.
I feel like I've bonded with you after that last line