A great video on a mystifying subject Jack. I still have a lot of my own testing to do in terms of taste, but interestingly, so far I notice that higher RPM's consistently give me faster shots, contrary to what you have been seeing and what you'd think would happen regarding higher fines production with the increased speed train of thought. I've still a lot of exploring to do in the are. Thanks for the video once again! 🤝
@@mycoffeeshow111 I'm the one that asked the conical question about RPM, but to comment on this. The typical assumption is that the lower rpm means less heat applied; but what testing is showing is the higher RPM the LESS heat is applied in reality since the beans spend less time touching the burrs. Thus I think with conical you don't want to go to fast because the fines increase too much even though less heat would be applied.
@@zh4k heat is another variable to complicate everything. And time of grinding can also affect things like volatile compounds. And so on and so on. If and when I have a conical grinder with regulated rpm I will experiment with that a bit more. I tried with hand grinders but it is not the same.
Great video, Jack! I'm looking to upgrade from a Baratza ESP, and I'm considering the 83v, 64v, and 78s. I started down the rabbit hole around 2 years ago, but I'm digging fast!
@@mycoffeeshow111- what is the reason of skipping df64v? They have recently released a new version with plasma generator and I am considering this grinder to replace my df64 gen 2.
Your explanation about less body with lower rpm corresponds with slow feeding experience with my df 64. So it is probably the feeding speed which changes the taste. Of course with manual slow feeding I will never have consistency like with specific rpm .
Thank you. I have started with Barista Express. Then, I got Eureka Specialita grinder, which prompted me to get new machine, for which I had to get even better grinder. And so on and so on. This hobby can take you over so be careful, but you would have lots of fun with new grinder for sure.
@mycoffeeshow111 okay thank you I drink mostly medium roast and been using a older macap m4 doser 53mm grinder that I'm looking to upgrade from and the df83 fatigue my eye. Mostly looking for a g Faster grinder that doesn't sacrifice quality
@@mycoffeeshow111 okay I will need to see that review video then just doing a lot of research for a new grinder since takes macap 1 min plus to get 18 to 19grams grinded and the retention out of the funnel into the doser shut. Thx for all your videos they are most helpful
Loved the video Jack! I wonder if your findings would still apply for precision auger grinders like the Bentwood or Zerno? Unless I'm willing to modify it I'm stuck with one rpm speed on my EK43 though 😢
rpm is a mystery, there was a comparison a while ago where people found that on some grinders higher rpm gave them faster shots, others slower, and others theres sort of a sweet spot in the middle where the shots run slower on both ends either very slow or very fast
Thx for watching. I can’t afford any more expensive grinders but we have few viewers who own Zerno so curious to hear from them. I remember when playing with Timemore 064s, I could not really taste much of a difference between different settings. I still don’t really know how that rpm changes everything. There are too many variables to take into account.
Do the same analysis for conical burrs. I think each conical has its own specific range it works best in. Niche Zero is 330rpm, but I'm looking at 2 chinese grinders with 1 being 220 rpm and the other 400 rpm all fixed and 63mm burr size.
@@zh4k this is still a big unknown to me. Even coffee experts are not 100% sure about this whole rpm subject. Personally, I haven’t had conical grinder with regulated speed to test it. Kafatek MC6 allows that but I am not planning to buy one. Conical can produce more fines so lower rpm would make sense.
That’s Great Jack. I have a Lagom P64 which is variable speed and have cast burrs in right now. I haven’t really experimented with it and the instructions say to set it between 1100-1400 for ‘balance’ when starting out. It also says that you may need to grind coarser at lower RPMs which I think may be different from what you said, but I’m not sure. If you have to grind coarser at lower rpm would that mean there are more fines at a lower rpm? I was thinking of getting the Kruve sifters and do some particle examination but I was thinking of doing that just for my different grind settings, but I forgot now I have to consider the rpm’s as well, seems like too much work!
Thx for watching. I still don’t understand exactly how it works. On some grinders, the lower the rpm the faster the shot would run (so you would grind finer). On some, it is the opposite. The taste though follows what I said in the video. How to explain that- I simply don’t know.
Do you have the same result with your Kafatek? I have P100 and found the opposite result of yours where when RPM is low, I need to grind coarser (or slower extraction). I agree the sweet spot is somewhere in between, low RPM is flat and high RPM tends to be astringent.
I set my Kafatek at 200 ( in the middle) and keep it there. I did a video about it but so long ago that I don’t remember. The difference might be between parallel vs vertical alignment.
while i was seasoning my Timemore 064s (flat burrs), i noticed channeling and low puck resistance , no matter how fine i set the grinder. i then switched to the lowest rpm possible and it got much better. so there's that as well. i grinded about 6kg with it so far, so going to gradually increase rpm and see what happens. also, bought a couple of BEP baskets after watching one of your videos and loving the tasty results!
Thx for sharing your experience. Glad you like your baskets. I’m comparing Kafmasino baskets next. I have a video testing rpm on 064s and although I couldn’t find much difference in terms of taste, there was the difference in time of extraction that I couldn’t explain.
@@mycoffeeshow111 pulled a shot with 20g BEP basket, this time with slightly higher 800rpm. comparing with similar shot of medium roast, 84c temp, 5sec preinfusion, 9 bar descending - last shot (lowest rpm) at 24 sec i got 37.1g out, this shot 35.2g (25 sec) - no channeling though! didn't notice any distinctive change to taste or body though. i'm pulling with Flair58 and consistency is not the best. but anyway i'm going to increase rpm gradually to see if i notice any change
@@anonylesss thx for sharing. The best way to notice the difference is by contrasting 2 opposite points on the spectrum. Not sure if anyone would notice a difference between 800 and 700 for example. But please let me know about your findings.
Nice video Im just a regular guy with 64 mm burrs with 1400 rpm Gonna get a fancier grinder someday when i feel it's stop evolving so quick. Buy something now, and in 2 weeks, it's obsolete.
"I dont know why it would do it" - higher RPM's means more fines, fines block up the holes in the portafitler, causing a shot to take longer. But, you get more body from fines... so it's a matter of taste. Personally I almost always leave it on 1200 and ignore it, too many dang variables to worry about already. Unless I have some coffee that I think will benefit from ultra high clarity, in which case I go lower.
Thx for sharing your thoughts. Very sane approach. Interesting thing is that on some other grinders, higher rpm speeds up the shot. Not sure how to explain that.
@@mycoffeeshow111 ah interesting, I didn't know that. for what it's worth I'm using the df64v. I'm curious if the 83v has any issues stalling on light roasts at low RPM. I can't go lower than 900 or so.
@@mycoffeeshow111 yeah same here, pretty much have to hot start it. I think the 64v just has an under powered motor, and the 110 here in the US doesn't help. No auger either. It's a great grinder but not my end game!
@@mycoffeeshow111 LOL.... Thanks. I was reading a grinder reviewer named Tom, I think he is in NZ or Australia. His video, like almost everyone else, says all the great things on the grinder. Then today, I find his extensive review in writing on different grinders. Reading that it covers grind adjustment dial, that no one is covering, and is likely the most important feature. And I am hoping I dont have these issues, but tis making me think that if I do, I refund it for a DF64V or another one NO ONE is reviewing, the G64 variable from GZZT or iTop. under $375. I guess the reviewers are not getting any sent to them to review...LOL. Cheers!
@@philindeblanc what are your worries about it? I have recorded good few videos with DF83v and I thought I mentioned most of the things both good and bad.
@@mycoffeeshow111 In the "What I dont like, the last point about larger burrs, and the ability to dial back in. Though he consults with another person and there is a finer to coarser process, my biggest concern is to be able to repeat the previous grind setting.
A great video on a mystifying subject Jack. I still have a lot of my own testing to do in terms of taste, but interestingly, so far I notice that higher RPM's consistently give me faster shots, contrary to what you have been seeing and what you'd think would happen regarding higher fines production with the increased speed train of thought. I've still a lot of exploring to do in the are. Thanks for the video once again! 🤝
Thx for watching. If I remember Timemore 064s was also faster on higher rpm. No idea why
@@mycoffeeshow111 I'm the one that asked the conical question about RPM, but to comment on this. The typical assumption is that the lower rpm means less heat applied; but what testing is showing is the higher RPM the LESS heat is applied in reality since the beans spend less time touching the burrs. Thus I think with conical you don't want to go to fast because the fines increase too much even though less heat would be applied.
@@zh4k heat is another variable to complicate everything. And time of grinding can also affect things like volatile compounds. And so on and so on. If and when I have a conical grinder with regulated rpm I will experiment with that a bit more. I tried with hand grinders but it is not the same.
Great video, Jack! I'm looking to upgrade from a Baratza ESP, and I'm considering the 83v, 64v, and 78s. I started down the rabbit hole around 2 years ago, but I'm digging fast!
Thx for watching. All grinders you named are very good. I would probably skip 64v and choose between 78 or 83.
83v just arrived, replaced my 270w. Holy smokes is it fast and quiet. Lots of burr choices if that matters.
@@mycoffeeshow111- what is the reason of skipping df64v? They have recently released a new version with plasma generator and I am considering this grinder to replace my df64 gen 2.
Your explanation about less body with lower rpm corresponds with slow feeding experience with my df 64. So it is probably the feeding speed which changes the taste. Of course with manual slow feeding I will never have consistency like with specific rpm .
@@konstantinens9120 It sounds very plausible. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
This is great I’m currently considering a 63v but have a barista express. I figure that’s the one to grow into for espresso.
Thank you. I have started with Barista Express. Then, I got Eureka Specialita grinder, which prompted me to get new machine, for which I had to get even better grinder. And so on and so on. This hobby can take you over so be careful, but you would have lots of fun with new grinder for sure.
@@mycoffeeshow111 haha yeah I did that with pour overs that’s how I started with an encore esp then a k ultra and a zp6. It’s a rabbit hole for sure 😂
awesome content, jack!
Thank you!
What's your favorite grinder overall for espresso? Also what is your favorite Dr grinder for everyday use for espresso only?
My favourite is Flat Max 2. For darker roasts I would go for DF83v with ssp cast burrs but tbh I mostly drink light medium coffee.
@mycoffeeshow111 okay thank you I drink mostly medium roast and been using a older macap m4 doser 53mm grinder that I'm looking to upgrade from and the df83 fatigue my eye. Mostly looking for a g
Faster grinder that doesn't sacrifice quality
@@CC-wolverine I’m now testing Timemore 078s which is also very nice but not necessarily for dark roasts
@@mycoffeeshow111 okay I will need to see that review video then just doing a lot of research for a new grinder since takes macap 1 min plus to get 18 to 19grams grinded and the retention out of the funnel into the doser shut. Thx for all your videos they are most helpful
@@CC-wolverine thx for your support. I just finished recording and it should be ready next week.
On DF64v with ssp mp I go for lowest rpm for black coffee and turbo shots and 1100 rpm for milk drinks. I have my 078 at 800 for pourover.
Thx for sharing. Seems like similar settings as for myself and others.
How would you compare DF83V and 078s from the viewpoint of taste in cup?
Never tried 078s. I think Portakeeper did a video about it.
I had 064s which was ok but I wasn’t too impressed and sold it.
Great content! Keep it up!
Thank you very much!
Loved the video Jack! I wonder if your findings would still apply for precision auger grinders like the Bentwood or Zerno? Unless I'm willing to modify it I'm stuck with one rpm speed on my EK43 though 😢
rpm is a mystery, there was a comparison a while ago where people found that on some grinders higher rpm gave them faster shots, others slower, and others theres sort of a sweet spot in the middle where the shots run slower on both ends either very slow or very fast
Thx for watching. I can’t afford any more expensive grinders but we have few viewers who own Zerno so curious to hear from them. I remember when playing with Timemore 064s, I could not really taste much of a difference between different settings. I still don’t really know how that rpm changes everything. There are too many variables to take into account.
A 270 grinder definitely heats the coffee. You can feel it. I haven't checked this on the 83v yet.
@@scoobtoober2975 one would hope DF83v being so fast, it doesn’t do that, at least in home environment.
Do the same analysis for conical burrs. I think each conical has its own specific range it works best in. Niche Zero is 330rpm, but I'm looking at 2 chinese grinders with 1 being 220 rpm and the other 400 rpm all fixed and 63mm burr size.
@@zh4k this is still a big unknown to me. Even coffee experts are not 100% sure about this whole rpm subject. Personally, I haven’t had conical grinder with regulated speed to test it. Kafatek MC6 allows that but I am not planning to buy one. Conical can produce more fines so lower rpm would make sense.
That’s Great Jack. I have a Lagom P64 which is variable speed and have cast burrs in right now. I haven’t really experimented with it and the instructions say to set it between 1100-1400 for ‘balance’ when starting out. It also says that you may need to grind coarser at lower RPMs which I think may be different from what you said, but I’m not sure. If you have to grind coarser at lower rpm would that mean there are more fines at a lower rpm? I was thinking of getting the Kruve sifters and do some particle examination but I was thinking of doing that just for my different grind settings, but I forgot now I have to consider the rpm’s as well, seems like too much work!
Thx for watching. I still don’t understand exactly how it works. On some grinders, the lower the rpm the faster the shot would run (so you would grind finer). On some, it is the opposite. The taste though follows what I said in the video. How to explain that- I simply don’t know.
Do you have the same result with your Kafatek? I have P100 and found the opposite result of yours where when RPM is low, I need to grind coarser (or slower extraction). I agree the sweet spot is somewhere in between, low RPM is flat and high RPM tends to be astringent.
I set my Kafatek at 200 ( in the middle) and keep it there. I did a video about it but so long ago that I don’t remember. The difference might be between parallel vs vertical alignment.
I've found the same. Lower RPM shots run slower, and higher RPM the shots run faster.
@@jackowens_ yeah, I think my timemore 064s was like that. Not sure why.
Very helpful. Thanks!
Thank you for watching!
What rpm/ grind setting do you use for various espresso/ pour over. Finding info on this grinder has been sparse
Depending on coffee and burrs I have in, but 800rpm is usually a good choice. Settings between 10-15.
Do you have RPM suggestions for the MAX?
200 rpm is what I use now but have to play with rpm on it a bit more.
while i was seasoning my Timemore 064s (flat burrs), i noticed channeling and low puck resistance , no matter how fine i set the grinder. i then switched to the lowest rpm possible and it got much better. so there's that as well. i grinded about 6kg with it so far, so going to gradually increase rpm and see what happens. also, bought a couple of BEP baskets after watching one of your videos and loving the tasty results!
Thx for sharing your experience. Glad you like your baskets. I’m comparing Kafmasino baskets next. I have a video testing rpm on 064s and although I couldn’t find much difference in terms of taste, there was the difference in time of extraction that I couldn’t explain.
@@mycoffeeshow111 pulled a shot with 20g BEP basket, this time with slightly higher 800rpm. comparing with similar shot of medium roast, 84c temp, 5sec preinfusion, 9 bar descending - last shot (lowest rpm) at 24 sec i got 37.1g out, this shot 35.2g (25 sec) - no channeling though! didn't notice any distinctive change to taste or body though. i'm pulling with Flair58 and consistency is not the best. but anyway i'm going to increase rpm gradually to see if i notice any change
@@anonylesss thx for sharing. The best way to notice the difference is by contrasting 2 opposite points on the spectrum. Not sure if anyone would notice a difference between 800 and 700 for example. But please let me know about your findings.
@@mycoffeeshow111 makes sense. also, my mistake - the dial starts at 800, and i set it to 900 . next shot at 1000
Nice video
Im just a regular guy with 64 mm burrs with 1400 rpm
Gonna get a fancier grinder someday when i feel it's stop evolving so quick.
Buy something now, and in 2 weeks, it's obsolete.
Thx for watching. If you happy with what you have, stick with it. There will always be something new coming.
I don't think you are missing much with rpm control
@@Val_Smith most of us choose one setting and sticks with it.
"I dont know why it would do it" - higher RPM's means more fines, fines block up the holes in the portafitler, causing a shot to take longer. But, you get more body from fines... so it's a matter of taste. Personally I almost always leave it on 1200 and ignore it, too many dang variables to worry about already. Unless I have some coffee that I think will benefit from ultra high clarity, in which case I go lower.
Thx for sharing your thoughts. Very sane approach. Interesting thing is that on some other grinders, higher rpm speeds up the shot. Not sure how to explain that.
@@mycoffeeshow111 ah interesting, I didn't know that. for what it's worth I'm using the df64v. I'm curious if the 83v has any issues stalling on light roasts at low RPM. I can't go lower than 900 or so.
@@lowfuel6089 I never had a single issue with DF83v. Maybe because mine is 220v. I always do hot start.
@@mycoffeeshow111 yeah same here, pretty much have to hot start it. I think the 64v just has an under powered motor, and the 110 here in the US doesn't help. No auger either. It's a great grinder but not my end game!
@@lowfuel6089 never tried DF64v but DF64 gen 2 works perfectly as well.
Jack! .....ALL burrs are parallel :-) Some are vertical, some are horizontal. xoxox. I get the DF83V in a few days!
@@philindeblanc yeah, I was waiting for someone to point it out 😛
Congrats on your new purchase. Please let me know how you like it.
@@mycoffeeshow111 LOL.... Thanks. I was reading a grinder reviewer named Tom, I think he is in NZ or Australia. His video, like almost everyone else, says all the great things on the grinder. Then today, I find his extensive review in writing on different grinders. Reading that it covers grind adjustment dial, that no one is covering, and is likely the most important feature. And I am hoping I dont have these issues, but tis making me think that if I do, I refund it for a DF64V or another one NO ONE is reviewing, the G64 variable from GZZT or iTop. under $375. I guess the reviewers are not getting any sent to them to review...LOL. Cheers!
@@philindeblanc what are your worries about it? I have recorded good few videos with DF83v and I thought I mentioned most of the things both good and bad.
@@mycoffeeshow111 In the "What I dont like, the last point about larger burrs, and the ability to dial back in. Though he consults with another person and there is a finer to coarser process, my biggest concern is to be able to repeat the previous grind setting.
This guy cooks only coffee in his kitchen.
Hahaha, you mostly right 😁
Aren't you glad you didn't quit UA-cam ;)
Yeah, it is great being famous 😛