Nice thorough video with the retention tests and auger breaker tests! I haven't used either grinder, but I feel like the 078s is the slicker grinder, from a design standpoint at least.
Thank you. And yeah I feel like looks wise the O78s is better, and I think they did play it a little safer not letting the RPM go down too low, which I think is smart in some ways. And since I don’t like bellows and don’t find the plasma that useful it’s not a selling point for me generally. But the hard issue for the 078s is burr options. They use a very rare diameter, and because it has two screw holes it’s very different and keeps you only on their burr sets.
@@Sprometheus I agree on the burrs. As someone how finds the stock burrs not entirely to my personal preference and a basically no options to swap out to, I find it sitting here doing very little for an otherwise solid grinder with a very nice workflow.
Design wise the DF83(v, or even the old one maybe) seems better. And I backed the 078s :'( SSP should be making burrs for the 078s eventually. I think the Stock burrs are supposed to be decent but you may need to do seasoning.
I got my 078s after backing it on indiegogo with shipping to Europe and it was simply an incredible deal. Hard to beat even for a plasma generator or slightly bigger and more “standard” size burrs.
Arrived much later than usual but I have to say that I think this new DF83 design is very clean! I think were slowly getting more bang for our buck out of these DF grinders.
Thank you for testing the effectiveness of the pre-breaker. I saw other reviews mention that it "kind of" worked, but w/out any real data. I couldn't think of nay real way to quantify it, but I really like how you did it. Apricate it!
P64 is more quiet, better build quality I'd think, not that DF83 is bad. I think it comes down to which burrs you like better. I hear the SSP MP and HU burrs with similar geometry in 83 and 64 are basically the same, although I'd think the Lab Sweet / Cast type burrs might be better in the larger size since that's what they were originally designed with (80mm).
Very interesting to see them switch up the design. Seems like they are trying to be a competitor to the Zerno Z1, with the main differences being the 83mm burrs and RPM adjustment.
Nice video, Spro. I'm not entirely sure on the aesthetic - sometimes I like it, and others I don't. A very good feature set for the money, and seems a good 83mm platform for the home. I'm sure we'll see an update at some point soon in it's life to iron out any quirks. It's a great time for the home coffee community with so many grinders being released pushing grinding technology onward whilst making the market more competitive - it's a win for us! 😀
Another great review! What is your favourite rpm for espresso on this grinder? I really enjoy my DF83V. Have been using it for 2 weeks and it never stalled so far. Espresso is nicely balanced, flavour notes are present but not too sharp. Pour over is very RPM dependent- sweet and full body at higher settings, crisp at lower.
The DF line is interesting. I have had a 64v for a few months and have found it vexatious to use until very recently when I discovered what the issue at hand was. The grinder would squeal at seemingly random points along the dial. Initially, I thought it was a burr touching issue. I finally worked out that it was some retained grinds that the machine was struggling to deal with. When it would display this issue, the grind performance was erratic. Ramping up the grinder to 1600 and spinning down to a setting below 10, seemed to allow the grinder to deal with this problem. So, now that’s part of the routine. I’m wondering if the vertical burrs- being assisted by gravity- help to prevent this in the 83v(?). I admit that this might be novice user issues at play, to some extent as well
Yeah I had some squealing with mine as well. I do think the 64v in theory was great, but so many issues with it, and most importantly the stalling. I was sent an updated version and then told it still has the issue, so I think the biggest hurdle these days is getting over stalling. That said, the 83V seems much better on that front, though not perfect, and not anywhere near vexatious in my opinion. But I do think this body style with the vertical set burrs is a nice touch and overall, this is a super sturdy feeling grinder too.
@@Sprometheus interestingly, mine’s not stalled at all. It was the erratic grind performance that was doing my head in. Having- for the time being at any rate- solved that, its grind performance is much more predictable; ie, shot speeds are not all over the place, with the same coffee, dose, and setting
They've released a 3rd version, with an even lighter adjustment to the motor control, to prevent stalling, as well a physical bean disc. I have a v2 of it, and just bought and received the bean disk I'll be installing coming days.
I haven’t yet used the Zerno, so I can’t say. But I’d venture to say the Zerno is more effective at pre-breaking because it’s literal selling point they use and they make additional options for it. But I’d be happy to compare when it lands on my bar. Only a matter of time.
@@christiancuadros Choose one that's available / easy to purchase (DF83v might have the advantage there), which one you like the looks of, if you care about variable RPM and a quieter motor, or if you think you'll happy with the 83mm stock burrs or if you'd need to invest in SSP burrs (in 83mm they're pricey). The Zerno is a lot smaller, and made in the USA. Probably slightly quieter grinding because it's quieter than my DF83 (Gen 1 v1) but the motor on the Zerno is louder.
Whenever I see these reviews I can't help but wonder where we'd be today if this had come out in 2019. I love my Niche, but given that this costs the same today as my Niche did back then, I can't imagine the Niche would have had the same level of success.
I think you’re right, but I also think the Niche really ushered in the popularity of the single dose grinder. And i often speculate that the original DF64 was developed to fill the gap that the niche couldn’t where they were so hot you couldn’t buy one, plus flat burrs. It’s all history now though.
@@Sprometheus niche was one of the big breakthroughs in offering a customer a high performance/dollar product. Ningbo Frigga has a competitive advantage where they currently can access pretty good manufacturing for a lower cost and faster turnover of designs where they can make higher-end products that still offer a great performance/dollar product and I think that's a very strong selling point in a hobby where most of us will never end up with $5k+ in equipment. To be able to get a pretty well built variable RPM 83mm grinder with SSP burrs for under the price of the lagom p64 goes to show how fast the market is moving. even the timemore 064s which was conceived over 2 years ago was supposed to be today's "hero" grinder at $450 but the DF64 gen 2 is here at $50 cheaper ($100 cheaper if you get an open box one at espresso outlet for the people who would really benefit from those savings) and has been really shining as today's "new niche" in the value proposition it brings to the market, and who knows how much improved the df64 gen 3 is going to be or what ningbo frigga is going to put out next? I think grinder manufactureres on the whole are going to try and pretend the DF grinders dont really exist since they're pushing the value propsoition a little too hard, which I understand isn't always objectively a good thing because there may be a small grinder maker with new ideas who just wont be able to match the performance/price value that the DF has, and that can stifle new ideas. on the flip side, maybe small grinder makers are going to be a lot smarter in their future designs if they want to compete with good quality, low price, standard size flat burr grinders from china. Something I'd like to see grinder makers do is control RPM through a gearbox rather than lowering the voltage to the motor, that will always casue stalling issues instrinsically. I think a grinder should have a high/low speed gearbox to keep torque up at low rpm, like how a drill press can change its speeds by adjusting pulley ratios
Niche brought quiet grinders into the kitchen. EK43 was never coming to my house for the price or sound. Sette i have now is super loud. Niche is more for filter, espresso is ok. I'm looking forward to this 83v, just bought one. Never made espresso on a slower flat burr machine. EK for espresso is just ok, after years of it at various shops.
Hi! What's your opinion on this in comparison to the Mazzer Philos, considering price, burr size, and quality of stock burrs. I don't do filter at all, so please also take that into consideration.
Thanks for the notes on its volume, and the jamming. I can't see bothering with any variable speed grinder that is fussy on bean feeding...hot or cold start should not matter.
I have had mine for a few weeks now. Seems like the espresso is most tasty at the lowest 300 speed. The espresso cup is more flavorable than the conical grinder I've been using for a couple of years. Wondering what speed users have been selecting for Espresso?
I also have mine for nearly three months. Any additional thoughts you have on the RPM? For me it's the only variable left that remains unknown. At some point i started to believe it doesn't make any difference whether it be 300 or 1600 rpm
thanks for the video. sorry if I missed it but would you go for the 83v over the 83 ? I prefer the aesthetic of the 83 being vertical - just sits better but like the brushless motor and digital RPM gauge on the 83v ...
The good thing about not having money for a new grinder is that by the time I do save enough there will probably be an even better bang for buck version of this grinder (or a similar one) Edit: commas are overrated
At some point you hit manufacturing cost limitation, so this grinder is likely near that limit in terms of bang for buck. I think it's a lot of grinder for the money. If they try to lower cost any more, the burrs will have to be smaller or they'll have to replace a lot of the metal with plastic.
I loved the review, especialy the retention part. I see all the 0.1gr retentions and now the 2 grams retention on my Sage Smart Grinder Pro (my very first grinder that I got before the espresso machine and only for my drip coffee machine) just seems ridiculous 😄 I want to replace it with a good single dose grinder. My plan is to get DF83V with espresso burr or DF64 Gen 2 and use the Sage one for filter only. Is it a good idea to you or you may have other suggestions?
Awesome and honest review! There are two questions on my mind: 1) DLC burrs really mean Diamond Like Coated ? Or do they stand for something else .. maybe 3rd party company? I couldn't find official statement. 2) Why does the SSP burrs addition to the order increases by +320$ while buying them separately is almost same amount? Why not get stock DLC then buy separately SSP.. at least you will have an extra pair of burrs. This makes me challenge the real quality and price of the DLC burrs.
The manufacturer doesn't install the SSP burrs. The SSPs are shipped with the grinder with the factory burrs still mounted, leaving users to install the SSP burrs, themselves.
078s won one of your end of the year awards. How does this one compare to that one in terms of your preferred taste buds and then stalling issues? I have a 78s and have issues with channeling even after 5lbs of seasoning. I haven't had any stalling issues, but I've only done medium to dark roasts. I also ordered a 83v. I'm thinking about using the 83v with dlc brew burrs and keep the 78s as my espresso grinder with their stock burrs. Anyways, thank you for your very thoughtful review. I enjoyed your prebreaker and rdt charts. Very helpful.
Actually the 064s did, I have yet to try the 078s. And I do think that would be the closest competition for this grinder. And the 078s burrs are very different than the 064s so I can’t say they would be all that similar taste wise. But I think one major thing that the 83v may have going for it over the 078s is availability. At least in the near future. I will say the other main thing I like for the 83v over the 078 is common burr size and ability to swap. So even if you were to not like the brew burrs you aren’t stuck with few options when you want to switch. Anyway, I hope to get a 078s at some point. Timemore did say they would but I think they’ve had a slow roll out for buyers and I don’t want to press and take one that could be going to a buying customer. But thanks for the thoughtful comment and kind words.
Thank you for the correction. I really wished Timemore set a 78s aside for you. They could benefit from your review and the coffee community would benefit from your vast experience and knowledge of products. I'm not sold on the 83v yet, so I really like it in theory. I just like the features of the 83V, the plasma generator, magnetic chute, RPM range, common burr size. Even the aesthetics of the body is growing on me, at least from the front. I think you're the only DF83v video so far that didn't leave a super positive impression and more so a neutral review. I appreciate that.
Thx a lot for the video Spro☕️❤ Question about the attempt to isolate the auger to see how effective it is in pre brraking the beans - it seems to me that by taking out the burrs you are creating more open space in the grinder for the beans to move after going through the auger and as you increase the spinning speed the beans are being shoot out of the auger in a higher force and slamed stronger to that space walls which caused them to break more in compared with lower rpm
How much coffee did you have to put through to season the burrs and do you see any inconsistency when pulling shots from one day to the next? There was an issue with my df83 where shots were wildly inconsistent from one day to the next, one day perfect flow next day gusher third day choking the machine, without touching the adjustment.
Are you talking about a fuller shot the board that I showed a bit in the video or the motor itself inside that case? Because I fully intended to open it, but when I got to it I immediately proceeded to strip one of the bolts. Have yet to try to fix it.
Was hoping for a clear recommendation on this grinder, but your conclusion leaves me abit confused 🥴 guess I wait to see what else 2024 will offer on the grinder market. Appreciate the video though
It’s rare that I’ll blatantly recommend a piece of equipment. I think it’s more important to lay out the use, workflow, performance, where it excels and falls short and let the viewer determine if it meets their specific needs and wants.
Agreed! Was thinking of offloading my 078S for this 83V but now I am left wondering.... maybe I keep the 078S at the amazing $500 price point I got it for.
@@KushalJoshiP if the 078s (which I haven’t used) is as good as the 064s that I think was the best piece of kit I tried in 2023, you’re probably better served with the 078s. The only thing you’re missing is burr options and a wider RPM range.
Thank you for the great video! Two questions: 1. How do the DLC Espresso burrs compare to the Italmil burrs in prior DF83s models? 2. Did you try using the bellows to clear the remaining coffee into a separate cup/container? I'm curious how much of the retained grinds would be chaff relative to the grinds the grinder dispenses from single dose of beans. Would there be value in grinding a few tenths of a gram more, but then disposing of whatever retention you get out with the bellows?
According to the other reviews, the DLC expresso is very close to SSP high uniformity, which makes a lot of sense since the teeth of the burrs resemble one another.
DLC burrs should be better, probably a bit higher clarity, I never used them, but you know what the Italmill burrs were low clarity / high body at first and I found they opened up with more clarity after a bit of use, so it changed with some seasoning! Also opening up the declumper on the original DF83 and SLOW FEEDING the beans make a huge difference if your looking for more flavour clarity.
Good morning. I'm from Poland, where there are no opinions about these grinders. I am considering buying DF83V or DF64 2nd generation. The first one is twice as expensive, but it is not a problem for me. I like the design of the DF83V more, but I have two comments about it. I don't like the function of adjusting the speed (I consider it simply unnecessary) and I don't like the POWER button, so I have a question whether the grinder should be turned off with this button after each use. Please advise me which grinder to choose. I would like to mention that I only drink espresso.
That’s a good question. I do think the Niche’s stock Mazzer espresso burrs are superior to the stock espresso burrs on the DF83V. I think its main saving grace is the RPM control. So I think I’d still go for this for the added level of control.
@@Sprometheus I'm surprised you like the Mazzer burrs better than the new DF espresso burrs, unless you just prefer the more traditional profile with more blended flavour and more body (I believe that's how mazzers are generally). I haven't tried either myself (yet). Did you season the burrs? Not sure if that's a factor, I found some burrs do benefit from seasoning and others don't seem to, or not as much.
I have DF83 v2. Got it for my 25th birthday, and I love that grinder. Have had absolutely no issues with it ever since. It just keeps pumping out tasty, clear shots of espresso, and clarity is exactly what I want out of my coffee. I have the stock italmil burrs and I don't use it for filter tho. :) The new DF83V is interesting, but it retaining grinds without RDT is a problem for me.
Agreed. I have the same df83v2 grinder with the ssp hu burrs and I pull great espresso shots and great pour overs that I don’t see the need to replace it. The lack of portafilter forks is also a no go for me. I know it’s something small but I’ve gotten used to dosing directly into it.
You haven't put the whole bean dose weight in your 'retention' test? You really need scales with higher resolution (e.g. 0.01g) to estimate dose consistency to one decimal place of a gram (0.1g).
I am curious as to why the word "plasma" is being used interchangeably with the word "ion." They have very different meanings. If the grinder has a plasma generator, it would increase the temperature of the beans to 11,000 degrees fahrenheit. I am not sure that is what you want your grinder to do. Unless, the grinder is using lasers or a plasma torch or a light sabre to cut the beans. 😮
Has it been proven that pre-breaking with an auger type system means more consistent or less fines? Because I theorize that it creates more fines since you're just randomly smashing some select beans, it's not like grinding with a proper burr and then regrinding. I thought the Zerno with the pre breaker / auger might have made some extra fines (vs P64 with the same burrs and set to same or similar RPM) I thought Zerno (producing a bit more fines) may have slightly toned down the sharpness on the SSP MP burrs but that's just my theory didn't seem to affect clarity much.
Nice review! Just seems like DF grinders lack the fine tuned quality. Definitely has some nice features for the money. Crazy it would stall, especially with the larger motor.
Damn, I'm not a fan of RDT but looking at those number it does seem like it helps with retention and reduce inconsistency. ALTHOUGH I suspect it's basically including the fines and chaff that might otherwise get stuck in the chute. So maybe you're better off loosing that 0.5 of a gram of fines. Have you noticed a taste difference with and without RDT? I only did a few tests and thought RDT made it taste slightly worse (but it was only a few shots worth of testing).
Hey Spro, what experience do you have with the flavor profile of Baratza's Sette lineup for filter? I'm nearing the chance to upgrade from my Lido ET to something electric, but just can't justify spending DF83V money yet.
I've preordered and don't plan to stare at the right side of the grinder every morning. I really don't think it's a big deal. This is a crazy value at $800 and we can see where they saved costs. At its price, though, there's really not any competition.
It’s an insane value for the price. I’m glad they made the feature choices that they’ve made. Actually curious about the stock burrs so I’ll use them for a bit before swapping them out for SSPsn (if I don’t get the shots I want)
Given how many people complained about the RPM display on the DF64V being on all the time, adding the on/off switch is good because that means they are listening. Just the implementation need a bit of work.
You don’t. My 55mm flat burr makes better coffee than my DF83. People are always convinced that bigger means better. Larger burrs in a commercial setting makes sense. For home use? Nah. I think people are irrational when it comes to burr size.
@@andrewdavis9438 What's your 55mm grinder, Eureka Specialita? Have you compared directly? You'd get much more flavour clarity out the DF83 or even a DF64 vs Specialita, which maybe isn't suited to your taste profile or for the coffee you use, but I'd say it doesn't make it better or worse, just very different. Going from 54mm (or 55 according to Eureka) to 64mm was a huge jump for me, going from 64 to 75 or 83mm wasn't that much of a change. But I think it also depends on other variables of the grinders design as well, like feed rate/RPM and flow of coffee particles out, retention etc.
@@BensCoffeeRants yeah, Specialita. I have a DF64 Gen 2 as well at my office and don’t find it particular great for pour over, use it primarily for espresso.
@@andrewdavis9438I've never tried the gen2 burrs but the older italmill burrs were supposed to be worse and I find them fine for espresso not so great for coarser grinding but its probably better than the specialita for coarse grinding and also much easier switching back and forth between brew methods.
Seems legit and great value but all wait for V2, maybe theyll change on off switch improve dose cup hopper and sticker on dial by then. Review on Pinecone Pinion? I know its 64 burr but seems like good value for similiar style
Yeah part of me wonders if they have somewhat hurt their own business by quickly producing new versions of their grinders, leading folks to want to wait for the second gen to get one with the kinks worked out. I hadn’t heard of the Pinion, but I love a 64mm grinder so I’ll take a look for sure.
At 3:08. "Plasma generator?" Really? C'mon, that's marketing BS... but it's creative BS so I've got to tip my hat. Though the DF83V is less than 1/2 the price as the NEW! hot grinder, the Zerno Z1, I wonder how they would compare?
don't you think the issue of stalling is moot? I mean, it only stalls when grinding fine at a low RPM with light roasts. If you're having light roasts, you're almost certainly having filter, not espresso, so you'd not be grinding so fine... so I don't really see when, in actual use, you'd stall.
It could be a moot point from a user perspective. And maybe I’m just old fashioned, but I think if any product is sold with features they should all work regardless of how those features would be generally be used. To me it’s a matter of holding manufacturers responsible for what they sell.
@@Sprometheus perhaps, but to give an extreme example to illustrate the other side of the argument, would you expect a Porsche to drive properly if you kept it in 5th gear? I don't know anyone who'd grind a light roast finely, why would they try driving from a standstill in 5th gear?
@@Sprometheus- A vertical burr, pre-breaker shootout would be fantastic. I have the Niche/LMLM setup today - you know it better than anybody! I’m happy with the traditional espresso machine and love the Niche workflow, but want to improve the grind quality. I nearly went for the Zerno, but decided to wait for the Philos, rather than wait for the Zerno funding/production business model. According to LH, the hyper alignment and stability of the Zerno adds more value than does burr size. I’m hoping that Mazzer can deliver a similarly solid foundation. On paper, the blind burrs of the Zerno are a win. While some criticize the rear adjustment of the Philos, keeping the threads away from the coffee and being able to clean the unit without touching the adjustment is a win. I can hardly wait for the Philos review. Unless there are negative surprises, it’s likely to be my next grinder. Now… which burr set to order for my 90% espresso lifestyle and my desire for more clarity?
I don't consider trying to grind the lightest coffee you can find at an espresso grind at the lowest RPM on a cold start to really be a "stalling issue." When would that ever be a real world condition?
Literally! I got my 83V2 and just a couple short months later - this comes out. 🤯 Glad to see it's still a bit obnoxious sounding or else I'd Def be adding it to the cart. 🙄
Looks like a nice feature-rich grinder for the price. The stalling issue makes it a hard no for me. Edit: Based on replies, plus a little more reading on variable RPM grinders, it sounds like this is not likely to be an issue in daily use. Forgive my ignorance!
its intrinsic to all vRPM grinders. theres just to no way to control the RPM through voltage and still keep torque up at low RPM, unless you control RPM through a gearbox like you do with a milling machine or lathe rather than giving the motor just less power straight up. maybe thats the new wave of vRPM grinder designs that dont suck lol
He should let us know what RPM ranges he had the issue with, from working with other grinders and based on what others have reported, It's likely just at the very lowest range. It's nice to have the option of going lower RPM for pour overs maybe (less power required to grind coarser) rather than have a company limit the lower RPM to like 800 rpm (Timemore!) as a safeguard... Even Weber Key had stalling issues (mine didn't, but did have mini-stalls where it paused and recovered (that one works at a ridiculous 30RPM though!), the same thing happened on my P64 at or close to the lowest RPM, which is like 200-300RPM!)
Sorry I am new to coffee. But I seriously got confused. What is the difference between df83v and df83v2. From a layman perspective. I thought v2 was interpret as version 2, should be "revised/upgraded" version of the original. But in this case v2 don't really meant version 2, because it is 2 different model and have its own iteration of "revision/upgrade"
Hahaha I think it’s close to living up to it. Without the stalls it would, but it’s bump in the road considering the other features. What I’ll be curious about is its long term reliability.
@@Sprometheus absolutely agree. Really my comment was only to make the train joke. But in all seriousness these line of grinders are def on my radar. I dont have a large budget but I will be looking to upgrade at some point. These interest me.
buying a equipment from a make for that price is a bit far fetched since there is no info about the background of this company. Nothing on there website either. :(
I think Mii coffee is good. DF / Turin / Giotta? grinders are made by a mystery company basically and are re-branded and sold from various distributors depending on what country you're in you have different 'safe' options. I've dealt with CoffeeAddicts in Canada, And Espresso Outlet in USA. They're both great, and will support you if you have any issues. I've never dealt with mii coffee but they're legit, the thing I don't know is whether they'll help you out if you run into any issues or if you're on your own (like whole latte love apparently :o). Oh I've also purchased from Coffee & Tales which is overseas I believe but shipped to Canada, no problem with them, but never ran into any issues to test their support.
All the coffee channels hate on bellows, yet I find them to be a necessity as specialty coffee is crazy expensive and can't afford to burn a few grams of coffee for the 3-5 kinds I have at any given time just to clear out my grinder. I just a have a SD40, but with the bellows I get less then 0.05gm retention measured on my scale.
So do the bigger burrs, multi speeds give me a better espresso than the Mazzer Philos? I don't want bang for my buck I want the best coffee- Is anybody at this level really looking for bang for the buck?
Why not wait for the 3rd, 4th, 5th 8th? That's the problem with them doing incremental updates / fixes and trying to make a better product, vs one company that continues to make a faulty product and releases a new one every 5 years instead. So far it seems like a well made grinder from what we've seen and it seems like they're learning on how to improve things as they go along. DF grinders have been out for a while now, although this is a new design.
Amazing technology, but I just can't get past the 19th century steam engine aesthetic. People would think I'm a model train collector if I had this on my countertop.
@@thru_and_thru I spent $3500 Canadian on my most expensive grinder. :D For an 83mm burr grinder it's THE budget option because the next one would be around $4000USD I think. (Look up the Mazzer ZM) :D Oh wait there's the Niche Duo now too. I Believe that's similarly priced to the DF83. Another budget 83mm grinder.
Is it so difficult to print a micron scale instead of arbitrary meaningless numbers? They know the thread pitch, it's 5 extra minutes of work 🙄 Also I don't entirely understand these manufacturers who go through incredible effort and expense of engineering a premium grinder from scratch, but don't go for blind burrs. The rarest feature in grinders which would place it in a very exclusive category. In a market that's gotten relatively crowded and has quite nitpicky buyers.
Where is science behind "vertical grinders? As the beans fall from the top into the vertical grinders, one would assume that beans end up at the bottom half of the vertical grinders due to the gravity (unless they have installed anti-gravity matter). So naturally common sense tells me that the top half of grinder will have less beans than the bottom half, resulting uneven grinding or at worst bottom off the non rotating grinder wearing out quicker than the top half. And finally having it variable (it's because they can) Does anyone see what I'm getting at? For that reason, I think DF64 is better design.
Thank you, and I get that. The term budget is subjective, and based on the market for 80+mm grinders with these kinds of features is often reserved for prices well into four figures, so I thats why its a Beast on a Budget.
I have a Z1 coming in a few months so I’m not in the market for a grinder but even if I was, I just can’t get behind the look of the DF83v. It’s maybe the ugliest looking grinder on the market. Nothing comes to mind that is remotely as displeasing to look at then this grinder lol
I don't trust these Chinese products. They rush them to the market too quickly and then support is sometimes lacking when things go wrong. It can happen in the cycling world too when someone wants to avoid the big brands.
Thanks for all the research you put into these videos. Great tests.
Nice thorough video with the retention tests and auger breaker tests! I haven't used either grinder, but I feel like the 078s is the slicker grinder, from a design standpoint at least.
Thank you. And yeah I feel like looks wise the O78s is better, and I think they did play it a little safer not letting the RPM go down too low, which I think is smart in some ways. And since I don’t like bellows and don’t find the plasma that useful it’s not a selling point for me generally.
But the hard issue for the 078s is burr options. They use a very rare diameter, and because it has two screw holes it’s very different and keeps you only on their burr sets.
@@Sprometheus I agree on the burrs. As someone how finds the stock burrs not entirely to my personal preference and a basically no options to swap out to, I find it sitting here doing very little for an otherwise solid grinder with a very nice workflow.
Design wise the DF83(v, or even the old one maybe) seems better. And I backed the 078s :'( SSP should be making burrs for the 078s eventually. I think the Stock burrs are supposed to be decent but you may need to do seasoning.
I got my 078s after backing it on indiegogo with shipping to Europe and it was simply an incredible deal. Hard to beat even for a plasma generator or slightly bigger and more “standard” size burrs.
As always, fast moving, wry humor, and a thorough examination. Good work!
Arrived much later than usual but I have to say that I think this new DF83 design is very clean! I think were slowly getting more bang for our buck out of these DF grinders.
Have yourself a great weekend my friend.
Thank you.
Thank you my friend, you as well!
excellent review. short, objective, and to the point. thank you.
That sticker on the dial is simply inexcusable.
Thank you for testing the effectiveness of the pre-breaker. I saw other reviews mention that it "kind of" worked, but w/out any real data. I couldn't think of nay real way to quantify it, but I really like how you did it. Apricate it!
Thanks for the great videos as always ❤ Trying to decided between DF83V and the Timemore 78S. I waited. And both seem reasonable options.
Euerka is also good
How does it compare to the DF64v in term of cup quality?
Cant wait to see the P64 vs. DF83V head to head battle.
P64 is more quiet, better build quality I'd think, not that DF83 is bad. I think it comes down to which burrs you like better. I hear the SSP MP and HU burrs with similar geometry in 83 and 64 are basically the same, although I'd think the Lab Sweet / Cast type burrs might be better in the larger size since that's what they were originally designed with (80mm).
Can we get a video where Spro and Hoff destroy some bellows with baseballbats in the style of Office Space?
I’d be onboard for that.
Very interesting to see them switch up the design. Seems like they are trying to be a competitor to the Zerno Z1, with the main differences being the 83mm burrs and RPM adjustment.
Nice video, Spro. I'm not entirely sure on the aesthetic - sometimes I like it, and others I don't. A very good feature set for the money, and seems a good 83mm platform for the home. I'm sure we'll see an update at some point soon in it's life to iron out any quirks. It's a great time for the home coffee community with so many grinders being released pushing grinding technology onward whilst making the market more competitive - it's a win for us! 😀
Another great review! What is your favourite rpm for espresso on this grinder?
I really enjoy my DF83V. Have been using it for 2 weeks and it never stalled so far. Espresso is nicely balanced, flavour notes are present but not too sharp. Pour over is very RPM dependent- sweet and full body at higher settings, crisp at lower.
Using the stock espresso burrs?
@@BensCoffeeRants yeah dlc for espresso and dlc brew for pour overs
The DF line is interesting. I have had a 64v for a few months and have found it vexatious to use until very recently when I discovered what the issue at hand was. The grinder would squeal at seemingly random points along the dial. Initially, I thought it was a burr touching issue. I finally worked out that it was some retained grinds that the machine was struggling to deal with. When it would display this issue, the grind performance was erratic. Ramping up the grinder to 1600 and spinning down to a setting below 10, seemed to allow the grinder to deal with this problem. So, now that’s part of the routine. I’m wondering if the vertical burrs- being assisted by gravity- help to prevent this in the 83v(?). I admit that this might be novice user issues at play, to some extent as well
Yeah I had some squealing with mine as well. I do think the 64v in theory was great, but so many issues with it, and most importantly the stalling. I was sent an updated version and then told it still has the issue, so I think the biggest hurdle these days is getting over stalling.
That said, the 83V seems much better on that front, though not perfect, and not anywhere near vexatious in my opinion. But I do think this body style with the vertical set burrs is a nice touch and overall, this is a super sturdy feeling grinder too.
@@Sprometheus interestingly, mine’s not stalled at all. It was the erratic grind performance that was doing my head in. Having- for the time being at any rate- solved that, its grind performance is much more predictable; ie, shot speeds are not all over the place, with the same coffee, dose, and setting
They've released a 3rd version, with an even lighter adjustment to the motor control, to prevent stalling, as well a physical bean disc.
I have a v2 of it, and just bought and received the bean disk I'll be installing coming days.
Better or worse than the Zerno Z1? How does the pre-breaker on each one compare?
I haven’t yet used the Zerno, so I can’t say. But I’d venture to say the Zerno is more effective at pre-breaking because it’s literal selling point they use and they make additional options for it. But I’d be happy to compare when it lands on my bar. Only a matter of time.
Yes please a zerno vs df83v review will be great, i cant choose
I'd think the quality of the Zerno would be light years ahead of any DF grinder.
@@christiancuadros Choose one that's available / easy to purchase (DF83v might have the advantage there), which one you like the looks of, if you care about variable RPM and a quieter motor, or if you think you'll happy with the 83mm stock burrs or if you'd need to invest in SSP burrs (in 83mm they're pricey). The Zerno is a lot smaller, and made in the USA. Probably slightly quieter grinding because it's quieter than my DF83 (Gen 1 v1) but the motor on the Zerno is louder.
Whenever I see these reviews I can't help but wonder where we'd be today if this had come out in 2019. I love my Niche, but given that this costs the same today as my Niche did back then, I can't imagine the Niche would have had the same level of success.
I think you’re right, but I also think the Niche really ushered in the popularity of the single dose grinder. And i often speculate that the original DF64 was developed to fill the gap that the niche couldn’t where they were so hot you couldn’t buy one, plus flat burrs. It’s all history now though.
@@Sprometheus amen!
@@Sprometheus niche was one of the big breakthroughs in offering a customer a high performance/dollar product. Ningbo Frigga has a competitive advantage where they currently can access pretty good manufacturing for a lower cost and faster turnover of designs where they can make higher-end products that still offer a great performance/dollar product and I think that's a very strong selling point in a hobby where most of us will never end up with $5k+ in equipment. To be able to get a pretty well built variable RPM 83mm grinder with SSP burrs for under the price of the lagom p64 goes to show how fast the market is moving. even the timemore 064s which was conceived over 2 years ago was supposed to be today's "hero" grinder at $450 but the DF64 gen 2 is here at $50 cheaper ($100 cheaper if you get an open box one at espresso outlet for the people who would really benefit from those savings) and has been really shining as today's "new niche" in the value proposition it brings to the market, and who knows how much improved the df64 gen 3 is going to be or what ningbo frigga is going to put out next? I think grinder manufactureres on the whole are going to try and pretend the DF grinders dont really exist since they're pushing the value propsoition a little too hard, which I understand isn't always objectively a good thing because there may be a small grinder maker with new ideas who just wont be able to match the performance/price value that the DF has, and that can stifle new ideas. on the flip side, maybe small grinder makers are going to be a lot smarter in their future designs if they want to compete with good quality, low price, standard size flat burr grinders from china. Something I'd like to see grinder makers do is control RPM through a gearbox rather than lowering the voltage to the motor, that will always casue stalling issues instrinsically. I think a grinder should have a high/low speed gearbox to keep torque up at low rpm, like how a drill press can change its speeds by adjusting pulley ratios
Niche brought quiet grinders into the kitchen. EK43 was never coming to my house for the price or sound. Sette i have now is super loud. Niche is more for filter, espresso is ok. I'm looking forward to this 83v, just bought one. Never made espresso on a slower flat burr machine. EK for espresso is just ok, after years of it at various shops.
Would you be able to take the wooden lid off the puffer to cover the funnel instead of your dosing cup?
I'm very interested in this grinder but I'm not sure if I'll taste much improvement over my Mazzer Mini. I don't need this but I want it
Hi! What's your opinion on this in comparison to the Mazzer Philos, considering price, burr size, and quality of stock burrs. I don't do filter at all, so please also take that into consideration.
Grip it and rip it baby!! Great video man.
Thanks for the notes on its volume, and the jamming. I can't see bothering with any variable speed grinder that is fussy on bean feeding...hot or cold start should not matter.
What is the difference between MiCoffee and Turin? Great video Sir! TY!
I have had mine for a few weeks now. Seems like the espresso is most tasty at the lowest 300 speed. The espresso cup is more flavorable than the conical grinder I've been using for a couple of years. Wondering what speed users have been selecting for Espresso?
I also have mine for nearly three months.
Any additional thoughts you have on the RPM?
For me it's the only variable left that remains unknown.
At some point i started to believe it doesn't make any difference whether it be 300 or 1600 rpm
thanks for the video. sorry if I missed it but would you go for the 83v over the 83 ? I prefer the aesthetic of the 83 being vertical - just sits better but like the brushless motor and digital RPM gauge on the 83v ...
The good thing about not having money for a new grinder is that by the time I do save enough there will probably be an even better bang for buck version of this grinder (or a similar one)
Edit: commas are overrated
That’s definitely possible. But with inflation the term “budget” appears to be widening every year, and with every new grinder release.
@@Sprometheus too true
At some point you hit manufacturing cost limitation, so this grinder is likely near that limit in terms of bang for buck. I think it's a lot of grinder for the money. If they try to lower cost any more, the burrs will have to be smaller or they'll have to replace a lot of the metal with plastic.
I loved the review, especialy the retention part. I see all the 0.1gr retentions and now the 2 grams retention on my Sage Smart Grinder Pro (my very first grinder that I got before the espresso machine and only for my drip coffee machine) just seems ridiculous 😄 I want to replace it with a good single dose grinder. My plan is to get DF83V with espresso burr or DF64 Gen 2 and use the Sage one for filter only. Is it a good idea to you or you may have other suggestions?
Awesome and honest review! There are two questions on my mind:
1) DLC burrs really mean Diamond Like Coated ? Or do they stand for something else .. maybe 3rd party company? I couldn't find official statement.
2) Why does the SSP burrs addition to the order increases by +320$ while buying them separately is almost same amount? Why not get stock DLC then buy separately SSP.. at least you will have an extra pair of burrs. This makes me challenge the real quality and price of the DLC burrs.
The manufacturer doesn't install the SSP burrs. The SSPs are shipped with the grinder with the factory burrs still mounted, leaving users to install the SSP burrs, themselves.
I know this may sounds extreme but how is this compare to Mazzer ZM if using same burr?
078s won one of your end of the year awards. How does this one compare to that one in terms of your preferred taste buds and then stalling issues? I have a 78s and have issues with channeling even after 5lbs of seasoning. I haven't had any stalling issues, but I've only done medium to dark roasts. I also ordered a 83v. I'm thinking about using the 83v with dlc brew burrs and keep the 78s as my espresso grinder with their stock burrs. Anyways, thank you for your very thoughtful review. I enjoyed your prebreaker and rdt charts. Very helpful.
Actually the 064s did, I have yet to try the 078s. And I do think that would be the closest competition for this grinder. And the 078s burrs are very different than the 064s so I can’t say they would be all that similar taste wise. But I think one major thing that the 83v may have going for it over the 078s is availability. At least in the near future.
I will say the other main thing I like for the 83v over the 078 is common burr size and ability to swap. So even if you were to not like the brew burrs you aren’t stuck with few options when you want to switch.
Anyway, I hope to get a 078s at some point. Timemore did say they would but I think they’ve had a slow roll out for buyers and I don’t want to press and take one that could be going to a buying customer.
But thanks for the thoughtful comment and kind words.
Thank you for the correction. I really wished Timemore set a 78s aside for you. They could benefit from your review and the coffee community would benefit from your vast experience and knowledge of products. I'm not sold on the 83v yet, so I really like it in theory. I just like the features of the 83V, the plasma generator, magnetic chute, RPM range, common burr size. Even the aesthetics of the body is growing on me, at least from the front.
I think you're the only DF83v video so far that didn't leave a super positive impression and more so a neutral review. I appreciate that.
Would also like to try the 83v against the 078s if I manage to get my hands on one. It would be interesting for sure.
Did you test the pre-braker with the declumper removed?
Nice video ! How is DF83V in comparison to timemore078s you reckon ? Which one would you recommend more ? Thanks !
What coffee grinder would you recommend specifically for getting the most flavor out of espresso with a 700-1000 dollar budget?
Thx a lot for the video Spro☕️❤
Question about the attempt to isolate the auger to see how effective it is in pre brraking the beans - it seems to me that by taking out the burrs you are creating more open space in the grinder for the beans to move after going through the auger and as you increase the spinning speed the beans are being shoot out of the auger in a higher force and slamed stronger to that space walls which caused them to break more in compared with lower rpm
How much coffee did you have to put through to season the burrs and do you see any inconsistency when pulling shots from one day to the next? There was an issue with my df83 where shots were wildly inconsistent from one day to the next, one day perfect flow next day gusher third day choking the machine, without touching the adjustment.
after Eureka silence specialita, what should I get ? DF83 or DF64 (90% ESPRESSO)
What does it mean "the motor features a high torque start"?
Does the dosing cup fit into a 58mm portafilter like the dosing cup included with the other DF grinders, or the Niche?
It does fit into a portafilter but not as tightly as the Niche cup or rest in the rim like the OG DF cup, so its workflow isn’t as good.
Thanks for the review. How does it compare to the Niche Duo in your opinion?
Are you able to show us the motor control electronics?
Are you talking about a fuller shot the board that I showed a bit in the video or the motor itself inside that case?
Because I fully intended to open it, but when I got to it I immediately proceeded to strip one of the bolts. Have yet to try to fix it.
@@SprometheusYeah a more head-on, complete shot of the board would've been great. Big yikes with the stripped screw!! 😢
Was hoping for a clear recommendation on this grinder, but your conclusion leaves me abit confused 🥴 guess I wait to see what else 2024 will offer on the grinder market. Appreciate the video though
It’s rare that I’ll blatantly recommend a piece of equipment.
I think it’s more important to lay out the use, workflow, performance, where it excels and falls short and let the viewer determine if it meets their specific needs and wants.
Agreed! Was thinking of offloading my 078S for this 83V but now I am left wondering.... maybe I keep the 078S at the amazing $500 price point I got it for.
@@KushalJoshiP if the 078s (which I haven’t used) is as good as the 064s that I think was the best piece of kit I tried in 2023, you’re probably better served with the 078s. The only thing you’re missing is burr options and a wider RPM range.
df83v vs duo? what would you say for espresso?
Thank you for the great video! Two questions:
1. How do the DLC Espresso burrs compare to the Italmil burrs in prior DF83s models?
2. Did you try using the bellows to clear the remaining coffee into a separate cup/container? I'm curious how much of the retained grinds would be chaff relative to the grinds the grinder dispenses from single dose of beans. Would there be value in grinding a few tenths of a gram more, but then disposing of whatever retention you get out with the bellows?
According to the other reviews, the DLC expresso is very close to SSP high uniformity, which makes a lot of sense since the teeth of the burrs resemble one another.
DLC burrs should be better, probably a bit higher clarity, I never used them, but you know what the Italmill burrs were low clarity / high body at first and I found they opened up with more clarity after a bit of use, so it changed with some seasoning! Also opening up the declumper on the original DF83 and SLOW FEEDING the beans make a huge difference if your looking for more flavour clarity.
Good morning. I'm from Poland, where there are no opinions about these grinders. I am considering buying DF83V or DF64 2nd generation. The first one is twice as expensive, but it is not a problem for me. I like the design of the DF83V more, but I have two comments about it. I don't like the function of adjusting the speed (I consider it simply unnecessary) and I don't like the POWER button, so I have a question whether the grinder should be turned off with this button after each use. Please advise me which grinder to choose. I would like to mention that I only drink espresso.
I am interested in the scale you have. Where can I buy it?
Would you get this over the niche?
That’s a good question.
I do think the Niche’s stock Mazzer espresso burrs are superior to the stock espresso burrs on the DF83V. I think its main saving grace is the RPM control.
So I think I’d still go for this for the added level of control.
@@Sprometheus I'm surprised you like the Mazzer burrs better than the new DF espresso burrs, unless you just prefer the more traditional profile with more blended flavour and more body (I believe that's how mazzers are generally). I haven't tried either myself (yet). Did you season the burrs? Not sure if that's a factor, I found some burrs do benefit from seasoning and others don't seem to, or not as much.
I have DF83 v2. Got it for my 25th birthday, and I love that grinder. Have had absolutely no issues with it ever since. It just keeps pumping out tasty, clear shots of espresso, and clarity is exactly what I want out of my coffee. I have the stock italmil burrs and I don't use it for filter tho. :) The new DF83V is interesting, but it retaining grinds without RDT is a problem for me.
Agreed. I have the same df83v2 grinder with the ssp hu burrs and I pull great espresso shots and great pour overs that I don’t see the need to replace it. The lack of portafilter forks is also a no go for me. I know it’s something small but I’ve gotten used to dosing directly into it.
SSP burrs should be your present for your 26th birthday. trust me, they make a difference and is a great upgrade
@@jeef16 I will definitely upgrade my burrs eventually. 🙂
83 V2 should retain ground as well, in its poor chute design.
@@thamtham4924 it really doesn't. I never get more than 0.1g.
Are you still using your P64? How do you find it compared to DF83V?
That would be more than great to have a comparaison with the 078S
I wish a grinder for $800 was my kind of budget
What do you have and what's your budget. Need a new one. or need to work the one you have. Slow feeding is magical on a capresso for filter coffee
so i got to ask, are people buying coffee grinders like the way people buy new phones?
Thought I would watch a clip about a budget grinder but forgot the price sensitivity of the coffeephiles 🤪
You haven't put the whole bean dose weight in your 'retention' test? You really need scales with higher resolution (e.g. 0.01g) to estimate dose consistency to one decimal place of a gram (0.1g).
Its nice to have 7-800 pricerange grinder, there is a lot of 500s then suddenly 1200s
I am curious as to why the word "plasma" is being used interchangeably with the word "ion." They have very different meanings. If the grinder has a plasma generator, it would increase the temperature of the beans to 11,000 degrees fahrenheit. I am not sure that is what you want your grinder to do. Unless, the grinder is using lasers or a plasma torch or a light sabre to cut the beans. 😮
Has it been proven that pre-breaking with an auger type system means more consistent or less fines? Because I theorize that it creates more fines since you're just randomly smashing some select beans, it's not like grinding with a proper burr and then regrinding. I thought the Zerno with the pre breaker / auger might have made some extra fines (vs P64 with the same burrs and set to same or similar RPM) I thought Zerno (producing a bit more fines) may have slightly toned down the sharpness on the SSP MP burrs but that's just my theory didn't seem to affect clarity much.
8:08 😂😂😂😂😂😂
IYKYK
So thr prebreaker never actually prebreaks all of thr dose
He just showed you about 50% on the lower RPM to what like 90% or 95% on the higher RPM.
Right but who brews filter at 1600 rpms
Nice review! Just seems like DF grinders lack the fine tuned quality. Definitely has some nice features for the money. Crazy it would stall, especially with the larger motor.
It would stall if you put a light roast coffee on 300 rpm.
Kyle suspected it stall at auger, not burrs.
My grinder doesn't have magnets 😢
It makes good coffee tho
Damn, I'm not a fan of RDT but looking at those number it does seem like it helps with retention and reduce inconsistency. ALTHOUGH I suspect it's basically including the fines and chaff that might otherwise get stuck in the chute. So maybe you're better off loosing that 0.5 of a gram of fines. Have you noticed a taste difference with and without RDT? I only did a few tests and thought RDT made it taste slightly worse (but it was only a few shots worth of testing).
ehhh i just got the original df83 a few months ago and have been loving it. trying to convince myself im happy with it and dont want the df83v 😂
Hey Spro, what experience do you have with the flavor profile of Baratza's Sette lineup for filter? I'm nearing the chance to upgrade from my Lido ET to something electric, but just can't justify spending DF83V money yet.
Very cool grinder, but for me I’ll pass, wonderful video, nicely done
If they made a bellow that actually made the Roblox “oof” sound I’d buy it immediately.
Same. I toyed around with a fart sound but this one just hit different.
@@Sprometheus you’re an artiste
@@Sprometheus kinda sounded like a sex noise :D
It's weird that they'd design this to be so aesthetically pleasing but then proceed to ruin it by adding that on/off switch
I've preordered and don't plan to stare at the right side of the grinder every morning. I really don't think it's a big deal. This is a crazy value at $800 and we can see where they saved costs. At its price, though, there's really not any competition.
Haha I do get you it’s…it’s an aesthetically interesting choice for sure. Not my favorite, but I hardly notice it in daily use.
It’s an insane value for the price. I’m glad they made the feature choices that they’ve made. Actually curious about the stock burrs so I’ll use them for a bit before swapping them out for SSPsn (if I don’t get the shots I want)
Given how many people complained about the RPM display on the DF64V being on all the time, adding the on/off switch is good because that means they are listening. Just the implementation need a bit of work.
It’s a Chinese brand what do you expect? They’re only good at stealing other people’s designs not designing things themselves 😂
The DF83 is so big...
Who needs this kind of a grinder for his morning coffee ??
Except those who always want to have the biggest of course.
You don’t. My 55mm flat burr makes better coffee than my DF83. People are always convinced that bigger means better. Larger burrs in a commercial setting makes sense. For home use? Nah. I think people are irrational when it comes to burr size.
@@andrewdavis9438 What's your 55mm grinder, Eureka Specialita? Have you compared directly? You'd get much more flavour clarity out the DF83 or even a DF64 vs Specialita, which maybe isn't suited to your taste profile or for the coffee you use, but I'd say it doesn't make it better or worse, just very different. Going from 54mm (or 55 according to Eureka) to 64mm was a huge jump for me, going from 64 to 75 or 83mm wasn't that much of a change. But I think it also depends on other variables of the grinders design as well, like feed rate/RPM and flow of coffee particles out, retention etc.
@@BensCoffeeRants yeah, Specialita. I have a DF64 Gen 2 as well at my office and don’t find it particular great for pour over, use it primarily for espresso.
@@andrewdavis9438I've never tried the gen2 burrs but the older italmill burrs were supposed to be worse and I find them fine for espresso not so great for coarser grinding but its probably better than the specialita for coarse grinding and also much easier switching back and forth between brew methods.
Seems legit and great value but all wait for V2, maybe theyll change on off switch improve dose cup hopper and sticker on dial by then. Review on Pinecone Pinion? I know its 64 burr but seems like good value for similiar style
Yeah part of me wonders if they have somewhat hurt their own business by quickly producing new versions of their grinders, leading folks to want to wait for the second gen to get one with the kinks worked out.
I hadn’t heard of the Pinion, but I love a 64mm grinder so I’ll take a look for sure.
At 3:08. "Plasma generator?" Really? C'mon, that's marketing BS... but it's creative BS so I've got to tip my hat. Though the DF83V is less than 1/2 the price as the NEW! hot grinder, the Zerno Z1, I wonder how they would compare?
don't you think the issue of stalling is moot? I mean, it only stalls when grinding fine at a low RPM with light roasts. If you're having light roasts, you're almost certainly having filter, not espresso, so you'd not be grinding so fine... so I don't really see when, in actual use, you'd stall.
It could be a moot point from a user perspective.
And maybe I’m just old fashioned, but I think if any product is sold with features they should all work regardless of how those features would be generally be used. To me it’s a matter of holding manufacturers responsible for what they sell.
@@Sprometheus perhaps, but to give an extreme example to illustrate the other side of the argument, would you expect a Porsche to drive properly if you kept it in 5th gear? I don't know anyone who'd grind a light roast finely, why would they try driving from a standstill in 5th gear?
The df83 is cool, bit his look is not for me.
Right now I'm waiting to see more of the mazzer phyllos
There’s a chance you’ll be seeing it in the near future…
@@Sprometheus- A vertical burr, pre-breaker shootout would be fantastic.
I have the Niche/LMLM setup today - you know it better than anybody! I’m happy with the traditional espresso machine and love the Niche workflow, but want to improve the grind quality. I nearly went for the Zerno, but decided to wait for the Philos, rather than wait for the Zerno funding/production business model.
According to LH, the hyper alignment and stability of the Zerno adds more value than does burr size. I’m hoping that Mazzer can deliver a similarly solid foundation.
On paper, the blind burrs of the Zerno are a win. While some criticize the rear adjustment of the Philos, keeping the threads away from the coffee and being able to clean the unit without touching the adjustment is a win.
I can hardly wait for the Philos review. Unless there are negative surprises, it’s likely to be my next grinder. Now… which burr set to order for my 90% espresso lifestyle and my desire for more clarity?
They both look like choo choo trains to me 🤣
@@dudea3378- Given that espresso machines have steam boilers, I want my next espresso machine to look like a steam locomotive!
I don't consider trying to grind the lightest coffee you can find at an espresso grind at the lowest RPM on a cold start to really be a "stalling issue." When would that ever be a real world condition?
I am just upset they brought out the DF83 V2 then this a few months later at the same price point - wish I waited now.
Literally! I got my 83V2 and just a couple short months later - this comes out. 🤯
Glad to see it's still a bit obnoxious sounding or else I'd Def be adding it to the cart. 🙄
So 1200 aud is budget now? Damn I need a better job
Looks like a nice feature-rich grinder for the price. The stalling issue makes it a hard no for me.
Edit: Based on replies, plus a little more reading on variable RPM grinders, it sounds like this is not likely to be an issue in daily use. Forgive my ignorance!
its intrinsic to all vRPM grinders. theres just to no way to control the RPM through voltage and still keep torque up at low RPM, unless you control RPM through a gearbox like you do with a milling machine or lathe rather than giving the motor just less power straight up. maybe thats the new wave of vRPM grinder designs that dont suck lol
There is a review around that mentioned absolute no stalling above 500rpms, which is very low compared to other non variable rpm grinders.
It only stalls if you put a light roast coffee on 300rpm.
It stalls on a setting you will never use.
He should let us know what RPM ranges he had the issue with, from working with other grinders and based on what others have reported, It's likely just at the very lowest range. It's nice to have the option of going lower RPM for pour overs maybe (less power required to grind coarser) rather than have a company limit the lower RPM to like 800 rpm (Timemore!) as a safeguard... Even Weber Key had stalling issues (mine didn't, but did have mini-stalls where it paused and recovered (that one works at a ridiculous 30RPM though!), the same thing happened on my P64 at or close to the lowest RPM, which is like 200-300RPM!)
Sorry I am new to coffee. But I seriously got confused. What is the difference between df83v and df83v2.
From a layman perspective. I thought v2 was interpret as version 2, should be "revised/upgraded" version of the original.
But in this case v2 don't really meant version 2, because it is 2 different model and have its own iteration of "revision/upgrade"
I guess you arent wrong... $800 is a budget. Just not mine 😂
i feel like this is all just gear lust at this point, past a certain point whats truly gained in the cup?
Can this grinder live up to the hype? I think it can..... I think it can... I think it can I think it can I think it can I think it can
Hahaha I think it’s close to living up to it. Without the stalls it would, but it’s bump in the road considering the other features. What I’ll be curious about is its long term reliability.
@@Sprometheus absolutely agree. Really my comment was only to make the train joke. But in all seriousness these line of grinders are def on my radar. I dont have a large budget but I will be looking to upgrade at some point. These interest me.
buying a equipment from a make for that price is a bit far fetched since there is no info about the background of this company. Nothing on there website either. :(
I think Mii coffee is good. DF / Turin / Giotta? grinders are made by a mystery company basically and are re-branded and sold from various distributors depending on what country you're in you have different 'safe' options. I've dealt with CoffeeAddicts in Canada, And Espresso Outlet in USA. They're both great, and will support you if you have any issues.
I've never dealt with mii coffee but they're legit, the thing I don't know is whether they'll help you out if you run into any issues or if you're on your own (like whole latte love apparently :o).
Oh I've also purchased from Coffee & Tales which is overseas I believe but shipped to Canada, no problem with them, but never ran into any issues to test their support.
All the coffee channels hate on bellows, yet I find them to be a necessity as specialty coffee is crazy expensive and can't afford to burn a few grams of coffee for the 3-5 kinds I have at any given time just to clear out my grinder. I just a have a SD40, but with the bellows I get less then 0.05gm retention measured on my scale.
Three letters. RDT.
❤️❤️❤️ Love Is Important ☕☕☕ ....
Always my friend, thanks for watching!
So do the bigger burrs, multi speeds give me a better espresso than the Mazzer Philos? I don't want bang for my buck I want the best coffee- Is anybody at this level really looking for bang for the buck?
given their quality reputation, i would wait for for the 2nd gen 🙄
Why not wait for the 3rd, 4th, 5th 8th? That's the problem with them doing incremental updates / fixes and trying to make a better product, vs one company that continues to make a faulty product and releases a new one every 5 years instead.
So far it seems like a well made grinder from what we've seen and it seems like they're learning on how to improve things as they go along. DF grinders have been out for a while now, although this is a new design.
The sticker and double sided tape is a terrible lazy afterthought
Amazing technology, but I just can't get past the 19th century steam engine aesthetic. People would think I'm a model train collector if I had this on my countertop.
Not sure that a near £700 grinder qualifies as ‘budget’
Ok the word “budget” is being thrown around a lot with this grinder but it’s really hard to call an almost $1000 grinder, budget.
yes it is budget for people who are clearly a bit sick.
@@thru_and_thru I spent $3500 Canadian on my most expensive grinder. :D
For an 83mm burr grinder it's THE budget option because the next one would be around $4000USD I think. (Look up the Mazzer ZM) :D
Oh wait there's the Niche Duo now too. I Believe that's similarly priced to the DF83. Another budget 83mm grinder.
Is it so difficult to print a micron scale instead of arbitrary meaningless numbers? They know the thread pitch, it's 5 extra minutes of work 🙄
Also I don't entirely understand these manufacturers who go through incredible effort and expense of engineering a premium grinder from scratch, but don't go for blind burrs. The rarest feature in grinders which would place it in a very exclusive category. In a market that's gotten relatively crowded and has quite nitpicky buyers.
8:08 prepare to be sued by tommy talarico 😅
Me and literally a million other UA-camrs who use that sound haha.
Was budget supposed to be a joke?
So many of these people are out of touch.
Anyone got an extra budget? Can you buy one for me? Please. 😅
Where is science behind "vertical grinders?
As the beans fall from the top into the vertical grinders, one would assume that beans end up at the bottom half of the vertical grinders due to the gravity (unless they have installed anti-gravity matter). So naturally common sense tells me that the top half of grinder will have less beans than the bottom half, resulting uneven grinding or at worst bottom off the non rotating grinder wearing out quicker than the top half. And finally having it variable (it's because they can)
Does anyone see what I'm getting at?
For that reason, I think DF64 is better design.
The video was informative. The only down side is the "on a budget" title. I'm not sure 800$ can be considered on a budget 😅
Thank you, and I get that. The term budget is subjective, and based on the market for 80+mm grinders with these kinds of features is often reserved for prices well into four figures, so I thats why its a Beast on a Budget.
I have a Z1 coming in a few months so I’m not in the market for a grinder but even if I was, I just can’t get behind the look of the DF83v. It’s maybe the ugliest looking grinder on the market. Nothing comes to mind that is remotely as displeasing to look at then this grinder lol
"OOF!"
Too many grinders and coffee machines flooding the market. It's all about profits since they are all basically the same.
“On a budget” lol
I don't trust these Chinese products. They rush them to the market too quickly and then support is sometimes lacking when things go wrong. It can happen in the cycling world too when someone wants to avoid the big brands.