Thanks so much for this video. You've made it much clearer to me as to who and what were shinobi. Much appreciated. You are very thorough in your research. I have all your books. Massive fan of your work. Awesome channel. Trace
InformantⓋ I love them both. the shinobi hiden is a little bit vague on some things but still has a lot of information. The Shoninki is the Natori family system of ninjutsu. It has a whole system of ninjutsu revealed in its pages. I got Antony Cummins version of both the Shoninki and the Ninpiden (shinobi hiden). Also the Bansenshukai is a great book on ninjutsu also published by Mr. Cummins. Tons of info in that book. Trace
I would love to have a conversation with you one day.. I always want to teach the truth and what works. This is why I only teach skill sets I have Developed at a high level. and used in real life situations.!!! This is why I am always Finding new teachers to improve any skills I am lacking in my Seikatsu-Jutsu.
Thank you Antony. I've heard your name for years, haha if it's the same guy, and never really put stock in the good or the bad - I'm in a Tv show and am well aware of how people behave when one is in the public eye. This was well done and fun, I look forward to checking more of your videos out. Spencer
I see many similarities between Japanese and European medieval social systems. So in short: shinobi are spies, men doing espionage work for some time, samurai/bushi are knights/nobility, which is a class in society; wealthy farmers are yeomen, people of quite high status and personal freedom; non-professional ashigaru are levies drafted to fight for ther lord, profesional ashigaru are mercenaries/men-at-arms living lives solely dedicated to warfare. A farmer can become a soldier, an ashigaru, be ordered to do some espionage by his daimyo, becoming shinobi no mono. He does his job well so he is in turn awarded by his lord in land and serfs of his own, which makes him part of bushi - knightly class. Which is the same as knighting in Europe. It's preety simple and understable actually. It seems that this type of social hierarchy was spread worldwide and was quite universal even to cultures that had virtually no connection.
just got Secrets of the shinobi. I had to force myself to not have to much fun reading and slow down to study everything on each page. Norio even reminds me of myself as a kid, but with a bit more backbone cause of what he said when standing up to hisaaki. plus, image fuma kotaro with a Cornish accent, since he did have kaizoku (pirates) working for him as "Rappa".
Thank you very much for this video, it answered a lot of my questions, but some still stand. I always hear that the farmers rose to be ashigaru but what about the artisans and merchants? If the daimyo made a call for arms, did the men in those classes have to serve as well and could THEN become Samurai? This video opens up another question: did those who practised ninjutsu but served a Yakuza lord instead of a Daimyo consider themselves Shinobi no mono? Or would they be called differently? Thank you for your time
I was studying the Shoninki recently and I came across the skill of "Jokyo-nin". Can anyone explain it to me? I don't really understand what Natori means.
Antony love your videos you know way more than me so this probably isn't news to you but the research I've done about the ashigaru is some were farmers some were in this kind of class that fit in between farmer and samurai, kind of this intermediary class ,and some were samurai ,but there is some history stating some of them were given the privilege of being raised to the samurai class if they served their lord well in battle or distinguished themselves, so there are some examples of ashigaru becoming samurai.
In this topic, Soke Kawakami says: ..."between the Bushi (for me bad named Samurai) and the Shinobi no Mono, don´t exist to much differences"...; I believe the shinobi no mono always are a Busshi (low or high rank), but Soke Kawakami recently says the Shinobi no Mono have this profession and when then not have missions (for contract or for some Lord) they work like farmers, in sylviculture or forestry and like merchant...
If a ninja weren't samurai they could most likely be monks, merchants and farmers. A ninja doesn't really half to join the military in order to use there full potential because it would ruin the concept of blending within the crowd. Ninjas to get involved more within the city because that's how there abilities would work. I see ninjas a lot more similar to most superheroes in comics. Even superman understand the concept of blending within the crowd and occasionally showing up when things get out of hand. The only difference is that they'll try to take out the enemy as silently and quickly as possible to not cause a scene.
The issue isn't that difficult really. There are actual Ninjas or Shinobi who does professional full time ninjutsu (SEAL Teams, if you will). However, there are also those who practice Ninjutsu operations and tactics without being professional Shinobi. There's a professional Ninja like Sarutobi Sasuke type people who serves a lord as a full time ninja, and then there's that random beggar or traveller on the road that collects information, or that inconspicuous kid who was paid to give false info or start rumours, which as Anthony said, can include mercenaries, not just civilians...
To Anthony, didn't the Chinese Moshen Nanren's bring that knowledge to Japan? China is responsible for most if Japan's knowledge anyway. So you looking for from where Japanese ninjutsu come from, then you should look to China.
hummmm this is confusing shinobi no mono have high rank there pro solider then sim pro then low rank will out cast would been best way go if you gone do shinobi no jutsu the loess rank might be samurai or might not be he could higher by a lord and no one will know even one shun him but he only awnsred to the lord when on mission perfect under cover samurai shinobi no mono
4:45 Thievery is not a martial art.. Ninjutsu is, as it relates to combat and warfare. Thieves are not enduring. They are cowards. This is not arguable, so quit trying. 4:48 No. Thieves are not better at ninjutsu than thieves. Quit trying to insult ninjutsu. 5:10 Yes. That is because you are studying samurai scrolls, written by samurai, not ninja. What are samurai, but military officers in a daimyo's army. Samurai will look down on ninja, as you have come to do. Why is a ninja going to write about himself and have evidence of him being a ninja, which would land him in jail or beheaded. 6:34 No. Just because you are hired by a client, does not mean that you are suddenly their retainer. That is what samurai are. Samurai are retainers for a daimyo, just like a daimyo is a retainer for the shogun and the shogun is a retainer for the emperor. Retainers are paid a regular salary and thus retained by their employer and are obliged to be at their client's disposal at all times. Nothing stopping ninja's from accepting a retainer-ship, but they are not automatically retained, just because they are hired by a daimyo to do a mission or complete a task. 7:30 No, they were not wadded with cash. Do you not study any other part of Japanese history, dude? Despite their higher classification, farmers were half starved and were not even allowed to eat their own rice! They were not allowed to travel at all and could not mix with other classes of people. There were several farmer rebellions, due to starvation. Read Japan's feudal history! Apparently you have not read it. It was the merchants that always had money and could travel and do buisiness, yet considered a lower class, cause they didn't produce anything of their own. Just money for themselves. The samurai looked down on them for that reason and respected the farmers more, but it was opposite when it came to the greedy emperor, who was the one who paid the samurai their koku salaries, which was taken right out of the hands of the farmers. It's a pretty messed up and immoral system if you ask me. 9:15 Ashigaru were temporarily hired farmers. In other words, they were levy troops, just like in Europe. As Japan came to modernize, with larger and larger armies, these levy troops slowly became professionalized regiments and eventually became equal and then surpassed the samurai in status, becoming the army of Japan, ending the age of the samurai. 11:28 No. It's not that we don't know. It's just that you don't know. History is pretty clear on who the ashigaru were and what they became. Try researching more than just samurai books. 12:40 They drove Range Rovers? They had shotguns? WTF are you talking about? Modern Japan or Feudal Japan? Get your freaking time lines straight dude! No one drove Range Rovers in Feudal Japan! You smoking crack? You act like it. Shinobi were warrior monks, much like the Shaoolin of China, where their fighting art, which you deny, came from. Shugendo. www.akban.org/wiki/Shugendo www.akban.org/wiki/Yamabushi
@D'lish Donut *He knows nobody drove range rovers in Japan, and if you actually read the books you would know that they were written by Ninja, and that Ninja could be Samurai* Then why state as such in his video. Farmers were not rich. While they were respected as producers, they were poor as dirt. Antony Cummings needs to quit talking out his ass and actually read history and not just a few scrolls written by samurai, about ninjutsu. It's the whole basis for his very restricted theories. Ninja are not samurai. Much of what ninja do, violate bushido, so this is impossible. Samurai take bushido very seriously and they lose honor whenever they violate this code. Honor is everything to a samurai. Ninja could care less and used this to great advantage. *Also Ninja had to learned the skill or thievery, sometimes they had to steal military documents or other information, or seals, banners, etc.* Duh! I never said that ninja could not steal. I said that thievery is not a martial art. Do you even know what a martial art is or do you just believe everything that antony Cumming says? Ninjutsu is the most extensive martial art in the world and Cummings denies that ninjutsu is a martial art at all, which defies all logic. Everything about ninjutsu, except for their religious beliefs, is 100% martial arts. The word martial, means warfare. www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/martial Now explain how ninjutsu is not a martial art, when everything about it is based on warfare? *Why would Ninja be beheaded if the Ninja who wrote those scrolls were WORKING FOR TOKUGAWA?* Because Tokugawa hired the Iga(what was left of them, thanks to Nobunaga) to keep tabs on Lord Nobunaga movements, who was his rival for the shogunate. Tokugawa Ieyesu was successful at convincing Akechi Mitsuhide to turn on him, when Nobunaga let his guard down. Study the Honnō-ji Incident and this is easily figured out. Who benefits? Common sense! The ninja were desperate to survive. Lord Nobunaga had beaten them and their powerful networks were destroyed. The ninja have operate only in small cells, ever since. Their vast armies were no more. The ninja have been scattered in small pockets ever since.
@D'lish Donut *Is English a 2nd language for you? He was making an analogy, you don't have a real argument so you make up baseless accusations. He was talking about rich peasants* Peasants were not rich. They were generally quite poor. Particularly the farmers, who had to pay most of their earning in taxes to a magistrate in each province, who collected taxes for the emperor, who then gave stipends to all the daimyo that were loyal to him for their protection, from lords outside of his domain. It was the merchants that were rich, yet frowned upon by samurai, because in their view, merchant never produced anything, unlike farmers, craftsmen and artisans. This is very telling on how the samurai thought and how the culture of Japan operated. In the Edo period, there were even rebellions, due to the farmers starving, because they were not even allowed to eat any of the rice that they grew. Can you blame ninja for popping up in this oppressive culture? Shrine and temples were tax exempt or had nice deductions, but this is where much of the funding and supplies for the ninja came from, aside from their mercenary work. Because many ninja were actually monks, they could travel without restriction, similar to merchants. Peasant farmers in the Edo period, were not allowed to travel abroad. It sucked to be a farmer, but it is amazing how content these peasants were in their culture. *Antony never said all Ninja were Samurai* Antony Cummings says this in several of his videos. You should watch more of them, if you don't believe it. He has even stated that he wants to end the use of the term, ninja, which is insane. He wants ninja and samurai to join hands and sing kumbaya, together. Seriously! This and the strange popularity of his books, is why I feel that somebody has to speak up and say, BULLSHIT! He is trying to destroy traditional ninjutsu and is slandering all those who are teaching, today. He is a disservice to the ninja community, around the globe, along with a handful of other haters. *And many Christians and priests violate Christianity but they still call themselves Christian.* lol! Christians don't commit sepuku after they sin or do something dishonorable. Samurai do. Ninja, do not. You're really trying to compare Western Christianity to Japanese culture? lol! *by the time Tokugawa took power, most of the Ninja were working for him, so he would not have killed them for doing or claiming the job he hired them for.* Tokugawa made his move with the Honnō-ji Incident, but because of Hideyoshi's swift response to the betrayal of Akechi Mitsuhide, Hideyoshi assumed command with the emperor's blessing and Tokugawa had to work out another plan. Tokugawa did have ninja retainers, as early as the Honnō-ji Incident, but this was after the downfall of the main ninja networks and he did help them kill Nobunaga, who is the one who invaded Iga, after the failure of his son to do it. Nobunaga's son was also killed in the Honnō-ji Incident. Tokugawa thought patiently, much like a ninja. He is certainly the most clever out of the Three Unifiers of Japan, but in the end, the Tokugawa Shogunate turned out to be among the worst of oppressors. Where were the Iga then, but living it up in a castle, losing their once honed skills and it's not the first time, the Iga Clan worked for the empire. Ninja are not to work for an oppressor, but for the people, as that is where they came from. *And lastly your entire argument is based on the false notion, the false assumption that the Ninja scrolls aren't authentic, where is your evidence for this claim? If you actually read any of the scrolls, you would see for yourself they are authentic ninjutsu scrolls because they promote ninjutsu, so why would your Samurai speak so highly of Ninja in the scrolls if he hated Ninja? It's just painfully obvious you didn't read the scrolls, they are real Ninjutsu.* I am not saying that the samurai scrolls aren't real, but that they were written by samurai. The one supposedly written by Hattory Hanzo(Yet he is still or was, a samurai), seems fairly legitimate, but I have been unable to attain this book, as it is currently $300 on Amazon. No way am I paying that, but the tools do look authentic, but I do not know what else this scroll contains, to make a final determination, of the mind and spirit of the ninja, within it. It is the higher arts that makes it authentic or not. *Martial art means hand to hand combat, which is only a tiny fraction of what Ninja do. But on this point I actually agree with you because I believe Ninjitsu is a martial art.* Then perhaps you are not a troll, after all. There is hope! *I think overall you're just upset that Antony destroyed your ninja roleplaying fantasies. With facts and real history.* The problem is, Antony clearly doesn't know Japanese history. He has an extremely skewed view of the relationship between samurai and ninja and that's it. He needs to step back and look at the Japanese culture and history, as a whole. Then he might actually be able to piece together the reality of their society and how things developed through the ages or periods, as Japs call it. Upset? Destroyed? No. WTF are you smoking, is more like it. Nothing about any of his notions, make any sense to me. It flies in the face of reason and logic, if you know anything about the culture and society of Japan. *By the way, I know for a fact that you're wrong about Ninja and Samurai because not only were all or the Ninja scrolls written by Samurai, but because Hattori Hanzo, the world's most famous ninja is a confirmed Samurai!* I mentioned this, above. I'm not too fond of the Iga Clan and Hanzo was, at least at some point, a samurai. His scroll seems far better and I haven't even been able to read it, yet. I have to find a translation, somewheres. But, these were all written by Edo period samurai, about Iga ninjutsu, long after the collapse of ninja society. These do not speak for the whole of ninjutsu of Japan. Antony blatantly assume these few Iga scrolls, written by samurai, speak for all ninja clans sects and practitioners. Antony's assumptions and his wild and bizarre claims are all based on these very few documents, written by very questionable persons, long after the fall of ninja. There are mounds of current schools, teachers and practitioners, who have taught mostly the opposite view of his, that actually make far more sense and general cultural history to back up their traditions. What Antony Cummings does, is completely irresponsible and simply tells me that he is pushing an agenda, which the more that I looked into him, the more obvious this agenda was. He is just another social justice warrior, wanting everyone to join hands and be one global community. Ninja are a decentralized society by their very nature. They always have been. That's how they survive and promote justice for the people. Forming a centralized group, will only destroy them as a whole. Ninja and samurai will never be the same. They are two entirely different approaches to life. Samurai are mostly Taoists, practicing Zen and believing that law is the ultimate rule in life, while ninja are Shugenja, Buddhist and Shinto warrior monks, who simply fight for justice and against oppression. That, at least, makes sense. Details are scattered, as everything else in in those days. Some even argue that Jesus never existed for the very same reasons, that there is no proof of him ever existing, but looking at the whole picture of history, Jesus most certainly made an impact on human society all across the globe. Amen!
What about the Shinobi who were turtles?
Ha ha god man 🤣😂🤣
@@duncanpill That's a fact, Jack!
dont be dum
This cleared up some things I heard about shinobi being jizamurai, those who served from the "soil," so to speak. Thanks!
Outstanding presentation. Thank you!
Thanks so much for this video. You've made it much clearer to me as to who and what were shinobi. Much appreciated. You are very thorough in your research. I have all your books. Massive fan of your work. Awesome channel. Trace
Have you read the ninpuden?
InformantⓋ Yes, I've read the Ninpiden. The version published by Mr. Cummins.
How does the Shinobi Hiden compare to the Shoninki?
InformantⓋ I love them both. the shinobi hiden is a little bit vague on some things but still has a lot of information. The Shoninki is the Natori family system of ninjutsu. It has a whole system of ninjutsu revealed in its pages. I got Antony Cummins version of both the Shoninki and the Ninpiden (shinobi hiden). Also the Bansenshukai is a great book on ninjutsu also published by Mr. Cummins. Tons of info in that book. Trace
Awesome. I'm studying the Shoninki right now and I just bought the Ninpiden so I wanted to know the difference between them.
I would love to have a conversation with you one day.. I always want to teach the truth and what works. This is why I only teach skill sets I have Developed at a high level. and used in real life situations.!!! This is why I am always Finding new teachers to improve any skills I am lacking in my Seikatsu-Jutsu.
the way you described it has drawn a very vivid picture! nice
Thank you Antony. I've heard your name for years, haha if it's the same guy, and never really put stock in the good or the bad - I'm in a Tv show and am well aware of how people behave when one is in the public eye. This was well done and fun, I look forward to checking more of your videos out. Spencer
I see many similarities between Japanese and European medieval social systems. So in short: shinobi are spies, men doing espionage work for some time, samurai/bushi are knights/nobility, which is a class in society; wealthy farmers are yeomen, people of quite high status and personal freedom; non-professional ashigaru are levies drafted to fight for ther lord, profesional ashigaru are mercenaries/men-at-arms living lives solely dedicated to warfare.
A farmer can become a soldier, an ashigaru, be ordered to do some espionage by his daimyo, becoming shinobi no mono. He does his job well so he is in turn awarded by his lord in land and serfs of his own, which makes him part of bushi - knightly class. Which is the same as knighting in Europe.
It's preety simple and understable actually. It seems that this type of social hierarchy was spread worldwide and was quite universal even to cultures that had virtually no connection.
and it's cool
just got Secrets of the shinobi. I had to force myself to not have to much fun reading and slow down to study everything on each page. Norio even reminds me of myself as a kid, but with a bit more backbone cause of what he said when standing up to hisaaki.
plus, image fuma kotaro with a Cornish accent, since he did have kaizoku (pirates) working for him as "Rappa".
Thank you very much for this video, it answered a lot of my questions, but some still stand. I always hear that the farmers rose to be ashigaru but what about the artisans and merchants? If the daimyo made a call for arms, did the men in those classes have to serve as well and could THEN become Samurai? This video opens up another question: did those who practised ninjutsu but served a Yakuza lord instead of a Daimyo consider themselves Shinobi no mono? Or would they be called differently? Thank you for your time
Hi mate. It opens up many many questions, Too difficult to answer at the moment
I was studying the Shoninki recently and I came across the skill of "Jokyo-nin". Can anyone explain it to me? I don't really understand what Natori means.
Antony love your videos you know way more than me so this probably isn't news to you but the research I've done about the ashigaru is some were farmers some were in this kind of class that fit in between farmer and samurai, kind of this intermediary class ,and some were samurai ,but there is some history stating some of them were given the privilege of being raised to the samurai class if they served their lord well in battle or distinguished themselves, so there are some examples of ashigaru becoming samurai.
Nobushi are bandit samurai? I knew they had no honor.
*Making a For Honor reference here*
In this topic, Soke Kawakami says: ..."between the Bushi (for me bad named Samurai) and the Shinobi no Mono, don´t exist to much differences"...; I believe the shinobi no mono always are a Busshi (low or high rank), but Soke Kawakami recently says the Shinobi no Mono have this profession and when then not have missions (for contract or for some Lord) they work like farmers, in sylviculture or forestry and like merchant...
If a ninja weren't samurai they could most likely be monks, merchants and farmers. A ninja doesn't really half to join the military in order to use there full potential because it would ruin the concept of blending within the crowd. Ninjas to get involved more within the city because that's how there abilities would work. I see ninjas a lot more similar to most superheroes in comics. Even superman understand the concept of blending within the crowd and occasionally showing up when things get out of hand. The only difference is that they'll try to take out the enemy as silently and quickly as possible to not cause a scene.
The issue isn't that difficult really. There are actual Ninjas or Shinobi who does professional full time ninjutsu (SEAL Teams, if you will). However, there are also those who practice Ninjutsu operations and tactics without being professional Shinobi.
There's a professional Ninja like Sarutobi Sasuke type people who serves a lord as a full time ninja, and then there's that random beggar or traveller on the road that collects information, or that inconspicuous kid who was paid to give false info or start rumours, which as Anthony said, can include mercenaries, not just civilians...
Doesn’t it come down to the dispensation of there local lord. you now like given titles,land grants, and time being employed.
To Anthony, didn't the Chinese Moshen Nanren's bring that knowledge to Japan? China is responsible for most if Japan's knowledge anyway. So you looking for from where Japanese ninjutsu come from, then you should look to China.
This video was so long ago i have forgotten most of it. I’m not sure about moshen
hummmm this is confusing shinobi no mono have high rank there pro solider then sim pro then low rank will out cast would been best way go if you gone do shinobi no jutsu the loess rank might be samurai or might not be he could higher by a lord and no one will know even one shun him but he only awnsred to the lord when on mission perfect under cover samurai shinobi no mono
first
do you speak Japanese no shinobi is a samurai lol you should learn the word meaning
4:45 Thievery is not a martial art.. Ninjutsu is, as it relates to combat and warfare. Thieves are not enduring. They are cowards. This is not arguable, so quit trying.
4:48 No. Thieves are not better at ninjutsu than thieves. Quit trying to insult ninjutsu.
5:10 Yes. That is because you are studying samurai scrolls, written by samurai, not ninja. What are samurai, but military officers in a daimyo's army. Samurai will look down on ninja, as you have come to do. Why is a ninja going to write about himself and have evidence of him being a ninja, which would land him in jail or beheaded.
6:34 No. Just because you are hired by a client, does not mean that you are suddenly their retainer. That is what samurai are. Samurai are retainers for a daimyo, just like a daimyo is a retainer for the shogun and the shogun is a retainer for the emperor. Retainers are paid a regular salary and thus retained by their employer and are obliged to be at their client's disposal at all times. Nothing stopping ninja's from accepting a retainer-ship, but they are not automatically retained, just because they are hired by a daimyo to do a mission or complete a task.
7:30 No, they were not wadded with cash. Do you not study any other part of Japanese history, dude? Despite their higher classification, farmers were half starved and were not even allowed to eat their own rice! They were not allowed to travel at all and could not mix with other classes of people. There were several farmer rebellions, due to starvation. Read Japan's feudal history! Apparently you have not read it. It was the merchants that always had money and could travel and do buisiness, yet considered a lower class, cause they didn't produce anything of their own. Just money for themselves. The samurai looked down on them for that reason and respected the farmers more, but it was opposite when it came to the greedy emperor, who was the one who paid the samurai their koku salaries, which was taken right out of the hands of the farmers. It's a pretty messed up and immoral system if you ask me.
9:15 Ashigaru were temporarily hired farmers. In other words, they were levy troops, just like in Europe. As Japan came to modernize, with larger and larger armies, these levy troops slowly became professionalized regiments and eventually became equal and then surpassed the samurai in status, becoming the army of Japan, ending the age of the samurai.
11:28 No. It's not that we don't know. It's just that you don't know. History is pretty clear on who the ashigaru were and what they became. Try researching more than just samurai books.
12:40 They drove Range Rovers? They had shotguns? WTF are you talking about? Modern Japan or Feudal Japan? Get your freaking time lines straight dude! No one drove Range Rovers in Feudal Japan! You smoking crack? You act like it.
Shinobi were warrior monks, much like the Shaoolin of China, where their fighting art, which you deny, came from. Shugendo.
www.akban.org/wiki/Shugendo
www.akban.org/wiki/Yamabushi
@D'lish Donut *He knows nobody drove range rovers in Japan, and if you actually read the books you would know that they were written by Ninja, and that Ninja could be Samurai*
Then why state as such in his video. Farmers were not rich. While they were respected as producers, they were poor as dirt. Antony Cummings needs to quit talking out his ass and actually read history and not just a few scrolls written by samurai, about ninjutsu. It's the whole basis for his very restricted theories.
Ninja are not samurai. Much of what ninja do, violate bushido, so this is impossible. Samurai take bushido very seriously and they lose honor whenever they violate this code. Honor is everything to a samurai. Ninja could care less and used this to great advantage.
*Also Ninja had to learned the skill or thievery, sometimes they had to steal military documents or other information, or seals, banners, etc.*
Duh! I never said that ninja could not steal. I said that thievery is not a martial art. Do you even know what a martial art is or do you just believe everything that antony Cumming says?
Ninjutsu is the most extensive martial art in the world and Cummings denies that ninjutsu is a martial art at all, which defies all logic. Everything about ninjutsu, except for their religious beliefs, is 100% martial arts. The word martial, means warfare.
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/martial
Now explain how ninjutsu is not a martial art, when everything about it is based on warfare?
*Why would Ninja be beheaded if the Ninja who wrote those scrolls were WORKING FOR TOKUGAWA?*
Because Tokugawa hired the Iga(what was left of them, thanks to Nobunaga) to keep tabs on Lord Nobunaga movements, who was his rival for the shogunate. Tokugawa Ieyesu was successful at convincing
Akechi Mitsuhide to turn on him, when Nobunaga let his guard down.
Study the Honnō-ji Incident and this is easily figured out. Who benefits?
Common sense!
The ninja were desperate to survive. Lord Nobunaga had beaten them and their powerful networks were destroyed. The ninja have operate only in small cells, ever since. Their vast armies were no more.
The ninja have been scattered in small pockets ever since.
@D'lish Donut *Is English a 2nd language for you? He was making an analogy, you don't have a real argument so you make up baseless accusations. He was talking about rich peasants*
Peasants were not rich. They were generally quite poor. Particularly the farmers, who had to pay most of their earning in taxes to a magistrate in each province, who collected taxes for the emperor, who then gave stipends to all the daimyo that were loyal to him for their protection, from lords outside of his domain.
It was the merchants that were rich, yet frowned upon by samurai, because in their view, merchant never produced anything, unlike farmers, craftsmen and artisans.
This is very telling on how the samurai thought and how the culture of Japan operated.
In the Edo period, there were even rebellions, due to the farmers starving, because they were not even allowed to eat any of the rice that they grew.
Can you blame ninja for popping up in this oppressive culture?
Shrine and temples were tax exempt or had nice deductions, but this is where much of the funding and supplies for the ninja came from, aside from their mercenary work.
Because many ninja were actually monks, they could travel without restriction, similar to merchants. Peasant farmers in the Edo period, were not allowed to travel abroad.
It sucked to be a farmer, but it is amazing how content these peasants were in their culture.
*Antony never said all Ninja were Samurai*
Antony Cummings says this in several of his videos. You should watch more of them, if you don't believe it. He has even stated that he wants to end the use of the term, ninja, which is insane.
He wants ninja and samurai to join hands and sing kumbaya, together. Seriously! This and the strange popularity of his books, is why I feel that somebody has to speak up and say, BULLSHIT! He is trying to destroy traditional ninjutsu and is slandering all those who are teaching, today.
He is a disservice to the ninja community, around the globe, along with a handful of other haters.
*And many Christians and priests violate Christianity but they still call themselves Christian.*
lol! Christians don't commit sepuku after they sin or do something dishonorable. Samurai do. Ninja, do not. You're really trying to compare Western Christianity to Japanese culture? lol!
*by the time Tokugawa took power, most of the Ninja were working for him, so he would not have killed them for doing or claiming the job he hired them for.*
Tokugawa made his move with the Honnō-ji Incident, but because of Hideyoshi's swift response to the betrayal of Akechi Mitsuhide, Hideyoshi assumed command with the emperor's blessing and Tokugawa had to work out another plan.
Tokugawa did have ninja retainers, as early as the Honnō-ji Incident, but this was after the downfall of the main ninja networks and he did help them kill Nobunaga, who is the one who invaded Iga, after the failure of his son to do it. Nobunaga's son was also killed in the Honnō-ji Incident.
Tokugawa thought patiently, much like a ninja. He is certainly the most clever out of the Three Unifiers of Japan, but in the end, the Tokugawa Shogunate turned out to be among the worst of oppressors. Where were the Iga then, but living it up in a castle, losing their once honed skills and it's not the first time, the Iga Clan worked for the empire.
Ninja are not to work for an oppressor, but for the people, as that is where they came from.
*And lastly your entire argument is based on the false notion, the false assumption that the Ninja scrolls aren't authentic, where is your evidence for this claim? If you actually read any of the scrolls, you would see for yourself they are authentic ninjutsu scrolls because they promote ninjutsu, so why would your Samurai speak so highly of Ninja in the scrolls if he hated Ninja? It's just painfully obvious you didn't read the scrolls, they are real Ninjutsu.*
I am not saying that the samurai scrolls aren't real, but that they were written by samurai. The one supposedly written by Hattory Hanzo(Yet he is still or was, a samurai), seems fairly legitimate, but I have been unable to attain this book, as it is currently $300 on Amazon. No way am I paying that, but the tools do look authentic, but I do not know what else this scroll contains, to make a final determination, of the mind and spirit of the ninja, within it. It is the higher arts that makes it authentic or not.
*Martial art means hand to hand combat, which is only a tiny fraction of what Ninja do. But on this point I actually agree with you because I believe Ninjitsu is a martial art.*
Then perhaps you are not a troll, after all. There is hope!
*I think overall you're just upset that Antony destroyed your ninja roleplaying fantasies. With facts and real history.*
The problem is, Antony clearly doesn't know Japanese history. He has an extremely skewed view of the relationship between samurai and ninja and that's it. He needs to step back and look at the Japanese culture and history, as a whole. Then he might actually be able to piece together the reality of their society and how things developed through the ages or periods, as Japs call it.
Upset? Destroyed? No. WTF are you smoking, is more like it. Nothing about any of his notions, make any sense to me. It flies in the face of reason and logic, if you know anything about the culture and society of Japan.
*By the way, I know for a fact that you're wrong about Ninja and Samurai because not only were all or the Ninja scrolls written by Samurai, but because Hattori Hanzo, the world's most famous ninja is a confirmed Samurai!*
I mentioned this, above. I'm not too fond of the Iga Clan and Hanzo was, at least at some point, a samurai. His scroll seems far better and I haven't even been able to read it, yet. I have to find a translation, somewheres.
But, these were all written by Edo period samurai, about Iga ninjutsu, long after the collapse of ninja society. These do not speak for the whole of ninjutsu of Japan. Antony blatantly assume these few Iga scrolls, written by samurai, speak for all ninja clans sects and practitioners.
Antony's assumptions and his wild and bizarre claims are all based on these very few documents, written by very questionable persons, long after the fall of ninja.
There are mounds of current schools, teachers and practitioners, who have taught mostly the opposite view of his, that actually make far more sense and general cultural history to back up their traditions.
What Antony Cummings does, is completely irresponsible and simply tells me that he is pushing an agenda, which the more that I looked into him, the more obvious this agenda was. He is just another social justice warrior, wanting everyone to join hands and be one global community.
Ninja are a decentralized society by their very nature. They always have been. That's how they survive and promote justice for the people. Forming a centralized group, will only destroy them as a whole. Ninja and samurai will never be the same. They are two entirely different approaches to life. Samurai are mostly Taoists, practicing Zen and believing that law is the ultimate rule in life, while ninja are Shugenja, Buddhist and Shinto warrior monks, who simply fight for justice and against oppression.
That, at least, makes sense. Details are scattered, as everything else in in those days. Some even argue that Jesus never existed for the very same reasons, that there is no proof of him ever existing, but looking at the whole picture of history, Jesus most certainly made an impact on human society all across the globe.
Amen!