Dude the building rage you feel as you visit the side rooms before that fight and she talks about how they forced her to torture people and made her cold and heartless, and then you get there and the priestess says that she made Shadowheart torture her own parents, never wanted to kill an NPC so badly. Wish we could've summoned Mizora and had her drag the priestess back to the hells.
its not death i wanted. Its torture. Flay her alive, scrape her nerves, break her bones one by one. Then heal her, and do it all again, like the flesh puppet she is
I mean, she could have been an evil companion character in the third act, maybe, but she was always a monster who deserved to be murdered brutally and without quarter.@@sponsje
@@duloth5518 Did you even play BG1 and 2? She was extremely mild as far as drow go, mostly wanting to just be left alone to worship Shar, even if you don't redeem her with the power of dick.
I'm not a murder hobo thank you. I save her in BG1. Forget her ending in 2. Does she die if she's alive until the end in her ending? If not then she dies 0 times. I'm keeping everyone alive. No one gets left behind Everyone is welcome. :3
I love the details in that scene... On how Shadowheart is half elf - her father is an elf and her mother is human... her father looks way younger than her mother because of elf lifespan compared to human
It also adds an extra layer of sadness, Shadowheart is probably around 30, and she was kidnapped while only a few years old. Her mom has been getting continually tortured for 25ish years, and given her appearance she is probably only in her late 50s (accounting for torture and malnourishment aging her a bit quicker). So, basically the majority of her mom's adult life and possibly life in general were spent in imprisonment and being tortured and toyed with. Dark...
@@JB-xl2jc her parents are in this situation for at least 40 years, you can find a book in the temple area of House of grief that's basically a journal documenting all that has been done to Shadowheart
@@GenaroNeto Oh yeah, forgot Shadowheart is a half elf, so 40+ totally makes sense. Damn, both parents got it rough but her mom REALLY got screwed over.
You know, Shar seems to miss out on one *extremely* important fact. Deities in D&D are *cripplingly* reliant on mortal worship. Without it, they will weaken and die. And in Shar's case? She really only has Toril's people, and not even that large a percentage of them. Someone could decide to exterminate every follower she has, and she would indeed die as a result. What's even better is that Ao would not allow her to do anything about it.
@@tek512 I think they're wondering about multispheric gods which Asmodeus and Bahamut are. Should their followers be slaughtered to a one on Toril there are other planes on which they would exist. Like they'd still exist on Oerth in Greyhawk. That said once they regained enough power, and should Ao allow it they could re-enter the plane to try and re-establish their worship. Ao's power only extends to the edge of Toril. In short: Yeah the do kinda depend on worshipers, but there are some that exist on a lot of spheres in the multiverse that they can gather worship from.
@@horrorfan117 Those are subject as well, just in a different way. Multisphere gods still lose power, and the ones who are worshipped via specific aspect stand to have that aspect die off entirely. The former is fairly simple to recover from, as you have already observed. The process is especially baf for those who manifested only an aspect, as having one of those die can potentially cost a god one or more portfolios. Those cannot be recovered once lost except by an overgod or taking them from another deity. Of note: in more recent materials it would seem Ao is not actually limited to Aber and Toril anymore. While he remains one overgod among however many, it's shown that gods from numerous pantheons, some of which do not even exist on any plane remotely connected to Toril, answer to him.
She's almost an eldritch god in a way. She's defined by absence. She isn't anti-matter, she's a vacuum. I think since her goal is nothingness, the more nothing there is, the stronger she would be.
After the house of healing and seeing what that insane doctor was doing in shar's name I dismissed shadowheart until she left for good. Didn't know she was in truth a victim.
@@Cpt0bviouss You can get hints at Shadowheart's true parentage as early as Act 1, there's a few cutscenes where she pauses and hesitates in front of a Selune statue in ruins. And a big one where she shares her memories of being lost in the woods with you. If you pass a Religion check / have visisted the Selune shrine in the underground tunnel, you can mention to her that her memory seems consistent with a Selunite rite of passage, where young members of the faith are sent into the woods alone and meant to follow the moonlight back home.
@@CrashB111 I found that detail of dialogue in my 3rd time playing, entire dialogue hidden behind checks/reading certain paper/books, she obviously dismisses it outright, but doesn't lose approval if you mention it, despite her anger tone, then it all makes sense. Give credit to shar, she wanted to prove her existence as the true nature of things by taking a rite of passage for selune and turning it utterly against her, which tbh the rite itself seems rather........... brutal, no deity feels actually good in the pantheon.
They joined Lolth in the upper tiers of most hated beings in Faerun. Lest we forget, Lolth mentally and physically broke an entire race and turned them into subservient thralls that she could cast aside at a moment's notice.
@@CrashB111given that Shar is a goddess of lies deception and darkness... well it sort of felt likely that rather sedate and meek Shadowheart was somehow "adopted" into the cult (or was putting on a tremendous show ) . Funnily I did actually not play with Shadowheart in my party BECAUSE she was a cleric of Shar - the ubar manipulative "woe is everywhere" goth
I encouraged to save them. After decades of dementia and torment, a little mark on her hand is nothing composted to saving her own parents. And if Shar wants to make the mark of honour permanent, all the better.
At first I let her make her own choice and she killed them to my horror and surprise. I had to reload and convince her to save them instead and I think that was the better decision based off what all the other companions said. I think Jaehira said it best… that Shar thinks humans are afraid of pain that they are willing to give up their chance at happiness, but truthfully humans are stronger than that. That was probably my favorite line from Jaehira lol
@@squirrel8397 You and I interpret her killing them differently. I never saw it as her trying to run away from her pain and get rid of the mark, I saw her as honouring their wishes despite what she wanted. They ask her to do it and she accepts the pain of killing her own parents because it's what they wanted, they wanted to be put out of their misery and for her to be fully free of Shar. I don't think the mark on her hand had anything to do with it.
I personally went with save, wanting her to finally have a happy family life and get what was taken from her. (Played a Dark Urge Dragonborn Paladin Barbarian) My guy would always be there to comfort her and protect her and her family if Shar tries anything.
@@LoriasGS I think your take on it is really interesting. To me I don’t think she’s scared of actual pain of the scar but the reminder of how Shar is deeply connected to her and quite literally ruined her life. I interpreted the dilemma as Shar’s way of spiting Shadowheart one last time by forcing her to off her parents knowing that the parents would obviously want to die rather than have their daughter suffer from eternal pain. So by saving her parents she didn’t give Shar the last laugh, or at least that’s how I felt. I liked the way I handled the situation but I could totally see why you’d choose the other option.
If I was in Shadowheart's place at 11:20, the moment I heard Shar saying "I am nothing", I would've just ignored her completely and saved my parents immediately. Why should I pay attention to nothing? What mark on my hand? What curse? What pain? You're talking about nothing. The disrespect and humiliation would've been delicious to see. Based Shadowheart taking to words what Shar said and completely ignoring her and her curse because she is "nothing", non existent.
It sucks that they made vicsonia so hatable. Especially since in baldur's gate 2, you could have made her change her alignment and she cares more about life. But i guess that isnt canon.
It's the curse of following on from an open choice rpg and including legacy characters. No matter what you do, someone's gonna be unhappy. I guess they could have done something like Kotor 2 where you can decide certain backstory details via conversations at the beginning of the game -but legit, none of that matters too much for people that are unfamiliar with the older games.
Xar / Montaron and Khalid suffered a similar fate going from BG1 to 2. At least Khalid remained a driver of Jaheira's dialog interactions and for the other there was the unfinished business mod. Even canon did the BG player character dirty as it took player choices & replaced it with their vanilla outcome.
Making Viconia's alignment change have affect would have been pretty cool and with how much they allowed for branching for sure was at least considered. Too bad the game has no way of inputting this. The laziest way could have been putting a different NPC into Vinconia's position (kinda like with the Dark Urge if you don't keep the bard alive before she can sleep at your camp) and picking her up at some other point while her and shadowheart are unknowns to each other with only a 'maybe' overlap in believe.
Ive kissed Shadowheart next to her few times. Nocturne is her ex. Actually her lover before SHs memory wiped. Its like one adventure and we stole her girl xD
I had Shart go through with the murder of Nightsong. She'd just completed the Gauntlet and her conviction and faith were solid. So when she went the House of Grief, she was a messiah of sorts. It was at that point that she challenged Viconia an turned her back on Shar. **Spoiler incoming** What is fun is that you challenge V as Shar's Chosen so you make a speech and have several rolls to win over the Sharrans and have them rebel and follow you. So in the fight about half the Sharrans were on my side. Now, I dunno if they stay loyal after you save your parents because V when she was clearly beginning to lose, she used Divine Intervention and killed them all :P I doubt it, though, because I had to fight my way out of the church.
Viconia was the most interesting romanceable companion in BG2 BY FAR. Here she gives badly aged hag vibes and is so repulsively evil that I refuse to accept she is the same Viconia as the one from BG2.
Viconia is a drow (who are, barring very few exceptions, evil by default), former priestess of Lolth and a current cleric of Shar, both some of the most evil deities in the setting. The first game properly represents this, e.g. she is hunted by the Flaming Fist because she brutally murdered a farmer and his family. BG2 softens her up a ton to make her more likable and ToB has a redemption arc that makes her non-evil, but that is unrealistic to her chracter in the first game. Her portrayal in BG3 is appropriate IMO
@@exantiuse497 But this game presents you and your party as capable of evil things but still able to make good choices, so it should makes sense for her character to have had the option to redeem itself as well.
@@YouAreStillNotablaze Some evil acts are too evil for redemption, and at times game is quite punishing, if you choose badly. For instance, actually making Shadowheart kill Nightsong. Ironically, even in "dark Shadowheart" walkthrough, Viconia will be murdered by your party, as Shar herself deems her "unworthy".
my game bugged i think, after I killed all the enemies, i saw that viconia still had 1hp somehow so i went to speak to her, she then promptly stood up and I got the narrator dialogue you get from stealing something and need to talk your way out of it.
yeah she is mega bugged. when I finished the fight I tried to talk to her but it just restarted the dialogue from before the fight. it started the fight again but noone appeared so I just killed her and nothing happened.
Er, no. She just never loses the pain-leash on her hand that hurts her whenever she thinks about Selune or niceness (as far as I can tell, that was the trigger for the curse hurting her)
@@JailShankeryeah but the dialogue you get in the after scene with the parents make it seem like she’s willing to bare the skin for her family but to each their own!
@@JailShanker Pain is what makes life worth living. A curse is the best thing ever if you change your perception of what a curse is. A certain show makes this point well. Someone that's always been unlucky. But it teaches them to push through hardship. If people don't live with pain then people don't learn to adapt and overcome. Shar is teaching a lesson here. While I think she could teach it better (being flawed is liekly by design and fitting) the lesson is still the same. That if pain is avoided it makes you like her. If you avoid the worst then you have only emptiness and loss. She's encouraging people down that path so they can learn from those mistakes. She wants you to learn but she's going to break you first. Until you learn to deal with the worst instead of being a coward hiding behind others. Including her. Shar both has my respect and my disdain. That is bloody hard to pull off. While some characters are flawed in the game (and locations for that matter) they got Shar done perfectly. She represents everything loss stands for. What she isn't going to tell you is that being nothing has a purpose too. That you can learn to make something from nothing. That's the trick to it to it. It's a real life lesson that the more capable people will know about. But you won't learn to do that until you have nothing and laern to work with it instead of fearing it. So there is a method to Shar's lessons. The problem is she causes her minions to forget. Which gets in the way of learning. So she's kind of going against the point of the lessons in some ways. I think she might want to be challenged but if you just keep repeating the same mistakes and willingly choose to forget beacause of desperation for safety then that's the lie you live. That's not safe. This too is a real life lesson. That desperation for safety is what keeps people weak. Insecure. Only by facing and accepting pain and learning to overcome it do people stop living in fear. For that reason I would tell Shadowheart to womanup and deal with it. Because she'll have her parents at her side. The pain is only a reminder of that. When giving meaning, reason and purpose a scar MEANS something. It's a message. A reminder. Something to fight for. To strive for. Shadowhearts parents might mean well but they're giving up in reality. Thinking that "Shadowheart has suffered enough". I'm with Shar on this one. Suffer more. You'll learn more. Shar's a tricky one. She'll making a point on the left yet trying to play you a fool on the right. If you don't catch on to her game she's going to put you in those situations that might seem good but aren't. While what might seem bad is anythign but. It all depends on your own pereception, response and reaction to the situation you're in. She's going to try and break you but you can turn everything around if you just react and respond to it better. Just because she's a cynical bitch doesn't mean you have to be. You can follow her, play her games and believe in her while also challenging her. If done well she can even respect you for it. She's going to make you work for it though. What you choose to do is what you choose to do. At the end of the day it's your choice. To "escape" and destroy yourself. To forge and pretend harsh reality doesn't exist. Just like how real people do that every day and pretend it "helps" when it does anything but when they lie to themselves. Consider this a lesson in honesty and choice. Don't be like Shadowheart until you are driven to the point you lose those closest to you. Face hardship. Face pain. Live life for what it truely is instead of what people want or expect it to be. The one thing Shar won't teach is facing it head on. That's something you'll left to figure out yourself. Probably wants you to understand that, but if she just told you it would defeat the point of learning to adapt to the worst on your own. She's the lady of loss. Not the lady of support.
Those very familiar with the FR setting already knew that worshiping evil deities is always the wrong choice. They have utterly zero regard for their followers. The good gods aren't always wonderful, but the evil ones categorically treat their faithful as disposable objects.
Honestly, letting Viconia live is my best decision. She loses another enclave of sharrans. She fails her lady and then forced to live with the failure. A true lesson of loss that will haunt her for her actions. All that to fail once more. I'm all for Viconia living once more.
Out of all the groups looking for the Prism, the cult of Shar has the dumbest reason. It's literally just "Well, we heard everyone else wanted it so we wanted it first"
@@thomasjoychild4962 Yeah i know but even as a neutral gameplay, watching Shar toying with her was hard to watch. Shar completely breaks Shadowheart. Ive played one dark justiciar path but even on that couldnt let her kill her parents. Because Shar proven again to give her memories back to her and let her kill her parents knowingly. Thats monstrous. Shes everything but absence thats for sure. Too meddling.
@@ladyselin35 Well, that's less absence and more spiting her sister by proxy, definitely. I mean, someone choosing a dark path for themselves, sure. Someone ending up on a dark path just because their strings are being pulled that way, nope. Same as with Lae'zel.
SHadowheart was her only friend, everyone else either bullied them or were yk, Shar-following heartless soldiers, and Viconia was the one who taught them and tortured them, I doubt she had any tears lost on them
See this is where I disagree, upon her death Shar takes her soul. Sure in the short term its a happier ending, but it also goes against the parents wishes. They have been tortured for years, forced to watch their daughter torture them. Overwhelmed by grief and pain, and while sure they will probably be happy to spend time with her, they want her to let go of the atrocities of her past. And her father, probably doesn't want to be forced to watch as Shar continues to torture his daughter
@@HallowedKeeper_ I didn't get any implication of her soul being lost, she just never gets rid of the pain-leash on her hand that shocks her whenever (as far as I can tell) she thinks about Selune or happiness.
Killing her serves no purpose. Better to leave her broken. As one that lost everything and gained nothing. The lesson of Shar's teachings finally being learned. Then people understand the true meaning of Shar's lessons. That you. Gain. Nothing.
That's a whole lotta high minded idealism to excuse letting a trained assassin and spymaster walk free with a grudge against you personally. Much better to just stick a knife in her ribs while she's at your mercy.
Male Body type 4 Head 5 Scar 1 Hair - windblown Beard - groomed rascal Hair color - white Eyes - yellow(?) Think thats everything but let me know if you have more questions :)
I don't know who that creature is but it isn't Viconia. Viconia is a cleric of Shar because she refused to sacrifice a baby to Lolth. The idea that she'd be willing to sacrifice a random child centuries later to another god just seems meh.
Shar takes things from her followers, memories and literal bits of their minds. I don't find it too hard to believe she could take Viconia's scruples/conscience/compassion slowly over time.
I wish I could make my own witty comebacks for this scene.... Shar is the lady of loss, so Shadowheart leaving should be a gift to you. Their entire religion is just so hypocritical and idiotic, I don't know how Shar managed to amass so many followers when she gives them nothing as a reward. There are just so many better gods to follow that actually bestow their followers powers or fulfillment
That's the thing - she takes away things people want to forget. Should you make Shadowheart follow dark path, she will murder her own parents and Shar will just take her memory of it, so she won't remember it. Shar followers are typically ones, who experienced heavy loss in their life, so Shar takes away their pain, at a price.
In Shadowheart's case though she was basically brainwashed into it from a young age. And that's probably how a lot of devout Shar supporters are made in the first place.
Shar's darkness thing lets her hide people and things to some extent when she really wants to, even from her twin. I don't think Selune was actually aware of Shadowheart until she rejected Shar by freeing Aylin, at which point Selune starting powering her divine magic.
Not watching for a minute but wanted to leave this message here thank you for spoiling that bit of story there with your title i really needed that information when i am not going with shadowheart for my 1st run saves me from playing it again
Here is hoping for BG3: Definitive Editon in a year or so. There is already a lot of cut content & a explorable Avernum & endgame solution alone could make a sellable DLC to pay for bolstering story alternatives / extra voice recordings.
I'll be honest. First time meeting Nocturne, I had no idea that was a dude. I thought he was just an oddly designed female character with a weird voice. Didn't find out different till Shadowheart ate the mushroom.
@@wowplayer00you don't really have to? The game is good enough to be played on it's own, and from what I understand, it's wildly different from the other titles anyway. I didn't play any previous titles either, and I'm having the time of my life playing BG3, and it's more similar to DA:O than you may think.
Sorry Nocturne and Shadowheart. Both of your nicknames are cringe and made up by a toddler. And that Nocturne voice acting... lol. Too bad there's no dialogue option to switch back to her actual name after all this :( I would certainly take a "Jen" more seriously xD
Dude the building rage you feel as you visit the side rooms before that fight and she talks about how they forced her to torture people and made her cold and heartless, and then you get there and the priestess says that she made Shadowheart torture her own parents, never wanted to kill an NPC so badly. Wish we could've summoned Mizora and had her drag the priestess back to the hells.
Fun fact, that priestress is a companion from the previous game. Both Jaheira and Minsk hate her guts.
@@presidenttogekiss635 larian did viconia dirty man
its not death i wanted. Its torture. Flay her alive, scrape her nerves, break her bones one by one. Then heal her, and do it all again, like the flesh puppet she is
I mean, she could have been an evil companion character in the third act, maybe, but she was always a monster who deserved to be murdered brutally and without quarter.@@sponsje
@@duloth5518 Did you even play BG1 and 2? She was extremely mild as far as drow go, mostly wanting to just be left alone to worship Shar, even if you don't redeem her with the power of dick.
Viconia has died in all 3 Baldur's Gate games.
Definitely a record.
skill issue
I'm not a murder hobo thank you. I save her in BG1. Forget her ending in 2. Does she die if she's alive until the end in her ending? If not then she dies 0 times.
I'm keeping everyone alive. No one gets left behind Everyone is welcome. :3
Minsc, Jaheira and Sarevok can also die in all 3 games, if you so choose
@@Veldazandtea She is assassinated beyond resurrection in her romance ending in BG2, I can tell you that much.
@@exantiuse497evil will get a swift buttkicking first....rangers and hamsters everywhere!!!!!!
I love the details in that scene... On how Shadowheart is half elf - her father is an elf and her mother is human... her father looks way younger than her mother because of elf lifespan compared to human
It also adds an extra layer of sadness, Shadowheart is probably around 30, and she was kidnapped while only a few years old. Her mom has been getting continually tortured for 25ish years, and given her appearance she is probably only in her late 50s (accounting for torture and malnourishment aging her a bit quicker). So, basically the majority of her mom's adult life and possibly life in general were spent in imprisonment and being tortured and toyed with. Dark...
@@JB-xl2jc her parents are in this situation for at least 40 years, you can find a book in the temple area of House of grief that's basically a journal documenting all that has been done to Shadowheart
@@GenaroNeto Oh yeah, forgot Shadowheart is a half elf, so 40+ totally makes sense. Damn, both parents got it rough but her mom REALLY got screwed over.
@@JB-xl2jc Actually Shadowheart is 50.
@@miloslolz516445 46 maybe.
"let go mother, embrace loss"
savage pun
"Let go, *Mother*. Embrace loss." is the best burn ever. The fact that it is so deadpan and indignant at the same time is just icing on the cake.
You know, Shar seems to miss out on one *extremely* important fact. Deities in D&D are *cripplingly* reliant on mortal worship. Without it, they will weaken and die. And in Shar's case? She really only has Toril's people, and not even that large a percentage of them. Someone could decide to exterminate every follower she has, and she would indeed die as a result. What's even better is that Ao would not allow her to do anything about it.
Is this true for all of them though? I wouldn't think the greater ones, like Asmodeus or Bahamut are that dependent.
@@LordSerion It's true for all of them, yes. The only exceptions are overgods, of which the only example we have is Ao himself.
@@tek512 I think they're wondering about multispheric gods which Asmodeus and Bahamut are. Should their followers be slaughtered to a one on Toril there are other planes on which they would exist. Like they'd still exist on Oerth in Greyhawk.
That said once they regained enough power, and should Ao allow it they could re-enter the plane to try and re-establish their worship. Ao's power only extends to the edge of Toril.
In short: Yeah the do kinda depend on worshipers, but there are some that exist on a lot of spheres in the multiverse that they can gather worship from.
@@horrorfan117 Those are subject as well, just in a different way. Multisphere gods still lose power, and the ones who are worshipped via specific aspect stand to have that aspect die off entirely. The former is fairly simple to recover from, as you have already observed.
The process is especially baf for those who manifested only an aspect, as having one of those die can potentially cost a god one or more portfolios. Those cannot be recovered once lost except by an overgod or taking them from another deity.
Of note: in more recent materials it would seem Ao is not actually limited to Aber and Toril anymore. While he remains one overgod among however many, it's shown that gods from numerous pantheons, some of which do not even exist on any plane remotely connected to Toril, answer to him.
She's almost an eldritch god in a way. She's defined by absence. She isn't anti-matter, she's a vacuum. I think since her goal is nothingness, the more nothing there is, the stronger she would be.
Shadowheart: Let go, Mother. Embrace loss.
*100000 burn damage inflicted*
I never thought I'd hate Viconia and Shar so hard.
After the house of healing and seeing what that insane doctor was doing in shar's name I dismissed shadowheart until she left for good. Didn't know she was in truth a victim.
@@Cpt0bviouss You can get hints at Shadowheart's true parentage as early as Act 1, there's a few cutscenes where she pauses and hesitates in front of a Selune statue in ruins. And a big one where she shares her memories of being lost in the woods with you. If you pass a Religion check / have visisted the Selune shrine in the underground tunnel, you can mention to her that her memory seems consistent with a Selunite rite of passage, where young members of the faith are sent into the woods alone and meant to follow the moonlight back home.
@@CrashB111 I found that detail of dialogue in my 3rd time playing, entire dialogue hidden behind checks/reading certain paper/books, she obviously dismisses it outright, but doesn't lose approval if you mention it, despite her anger tone, then it all makes sense.
Give credit to shar, she wanted to prove her existence as the true nature of things by taking a rite of passage for selune and turning it utterly against her, which tbh the rite itself seems rather........... brutal, no deity feels actually good in the pantheon.
They joined Lolth in the upper tiers of most hated beings in Faerun. Lest we forget, Lolth mentally and physically broke an entire race and turned them into subservient thralls that she could cast aside at a moment's notice.
@@CrashB111given that Shar is a goddess of lies deception and darkness... well it sort of felt likely that rather sedate and meek Shadowheart was somehow "adopted" into the cult (or was putting on a tremendous show ) . Funnily I did actually not play with Shadowheart in my party BECAUSE she was a cleric of Shar - the ubar manipulative "woe is everywhere" goth
Only reason to spare Viconia, she sent Shadowheart to that mission and made her meet with us.
I encouraged to save them. After decades of dementia and torment, a little mark on her hand is nothing composted to saving her own parents. And if Shar wants to make the mark of honour permanent, all the better.
At first I let her make her own choice and she killed them to my horror and surprise. I had to reload and convince her to save them instead and I think that was the better decision based off what all the other companions said. I think Jaehira said it best… that Shar thinks humans are afraid of pain that they are willing to give up their chance at happiness, but truthfully humans are stronger than that. That was probably my favorite line from Jaehira lol
Both of u doomed her to an eternal hell of suffering idiots
Shar will claim her soul in the afterlife
@@squirrel8397 You and I interpret her killing them differently. I never saw it as her trying to run away from her pain and get rid of the mark, I saw her as honouring their wishes despite what she wanted. They ask her to do it and she accepts the pain of killing her own parents because it's what they wanted, they wanted to be put out of their misery and for her to be fully free of Shar. I don't think the mark on her hand had anything to do with it.
I personally went with save, wanting her to finally have a happy family life and get what was taken from her.
(Played a Dark Urge Dragonborn Paladin Barbarian)
My guy would always be there to comfort her and protect her and her family if Shar tries anything.
@@LoriasGS I think your take on it is really interesting. To me I don’t think she’s scared of actual pain of the scar but the reminder of how Shar is deeply connected to her and quite literally ruined her life. I interpreted the dilemma as Shar’s way of spiting Shadowheart one last time by forcing her to off her parents knowing that the parents would obviously want to die rather than have their daughter suffer from eternal pain. So by saving her parents she didn’t give Shar the last laugh, or at least that’s how I felt. I liked the way I handled the situation but I could totally see why you’d choose the other option.
Dagger seemed a bit of an odd choice, I mean you had a perfectly good Warpick on your back...
Give her the good old Trotsky treatment...
The hammer is for business, the dagger is personal.
Instead of stabbing this b**** in the back, it was done in the front
what weapon is that?
Congrats! House DeVir is actually dead..
It took you several minutes to do what took House Do'Urden decades and countless resources to accomplish xD
"let go mother, embrace loss" cold af legit fuck viconia so much respect shadowheart not only did you spare your fow but you moved on.
If I was in Shadowheart's place at 11:20, the moment I heard Shar saying "I am nothing", I would've just ignored her completely and saved my parents immediately. Why should I pay attention to nothing? What mark on my hand? What curse? What pain? You're talking about nothing.
The disrespect and humiliation would've been delicious to see. Based Shadowheart taking to words what Shar said and completely ignoring her and her curse because she is "nothing", non existent.
It sucks that they made vicsonia so hatable. Especially since in baldur's gate 2, you could have made her change her alignment and she cares more about life. But i guess that isnt canon.
It's the curse of following on from an open choice rpg and including legacy characters. No matter what you do, someone's gonna be unhappy. I guess they could have done something like Kotor 2 where you can decide certain backstory details via conversations at the beginning of the game -but legit, none of that matters too much for people that are unfamiliar with the older games.
@@TheCraftySamand how do you expect that to work? They were going to write a whole new plot with visconia when she's not a bitch in bg2?
Xar / Montaron and Khalid suffered a similar fate going from BG1 to 2.
At least Khalid remained a driver of Jaheira's dialog interactions and for the other there was the unfinished business mod. Even canon did the BG player character dirty as it took player choices & replaced it with their vanilla outcome.
Making Viconia's alignment change have affect would have been pretty cool and with how much they allowed for branching for sure was at least considered.
Too bad the game has no way of inputting this.
The laziest way could have been putting a different NPC into Vinconia's position (kinda like with the Dark Urge if you don't keep the bard alive before she can sleep at your camp) and picking her up at some other point while her and shadowheart are unknowns to each other with only a 'maybe' overlap in believe.
@@krzysztofczajka6752 it was a hypothetical bruh not an actual suggestion
i fking hate shar for what shadow heart had to endure.
2:48 im dead 💀
Can I just say how much I appreciate Nocturne? She’s amazing
Ive kissed Shadowheart next to her few times. Nocturne is her ex. Actually her lover before SHs memory wiped. Its like one adventure and we stole her girl xD
voiced by abby thorne too! worth checking out her youtube channel
A real bummer, In Bg1/2 I turned Viconia to the light side, Her alignment CG and renounced shar. A real bummer.
You can't make her good, true neutral is the best she can get. And I think she can only be redeemed if you romance her?
@@exantiuse497 Yes, and if you've done that, she's assassinated by Sharrans in the epilogue, who kill her in a way that prevents ressurrection.
I am so sorry, Nocturne's hair color simply is not giving for me. It looks like a damn wig 😭
I had Shart go through with the murder of Nightsong. She'd just completed the Gauntlet and her conviction and faith were solid. So when she went the House of Grief, she was a messiah of sorts. It was at that point that she challenged Viconia an turned her back on Shar.
**Spoiler incoming** What is fun is that you challenge V as Shar's Chosen so you make a speech and have several rolls to win over the Sharrans and have them rebel and follow you. So in the fight about half the Sharrans were on my side. Now, I dunno if they stay loyal after you save your parents because V when she was clearly beginning to lose, she used Divine Intervention and killed them all :P I doubt it, though, because I had to fight my way out of the church.
>Shart
LMAO
@@nasir6r996Eh? That's her nickname, everyone uses it, even the devs and voice actors. Dunno what's so funny.
Viconia was the most interesting romanceable companion in BG2 BY FAR. Here she gives badly aged hag vibes and is so repulsively evil that I refuse to accept she is the same Viconia as the one from BG2.
I mean she was always evil.. she's a drow. I'm jsut disapointed they didn't get her old voice actress back in.
Viconia is a drow (who are, barring very few exceptions, evil by default), former priestess of Lolth and a current cleric of Shar, both some of the most evil deities in the setting. The first game properly represents this, e.g. she is hunted by the Flaming Fist because she brutally murdered a farmer and his family. BG2 softens her up a ton to make her more likable and ToB has a redemption arc that makes her non-evil, but that is unrealistic to her chracter in the first game. Her portrayal in BG3 is appropriate IMO
To be fair, if you take the romance option she is assassinated. So if that was your ending you can certainly go with her not being the real Viconia.
@@exantiuse497 But this game presents you and your party as capable of evil things but still able to make good choices, so it should makes sense for her character to have had the option to redeem itself as well.
@@YouAreStillNotablaze Some evil acts are too evil for redemption, and at times game is quite punishing, if you choose badly. For instance, actually making Shadowheart kill Nightsong. Ironically, even in "dark Shadowheart" walkthrough, Viconia will be murdered by your party, as Shar herself deems her "unworthy".
I went the same path but here, I used divine intervention with shadowheart. WORTH IT
what did that do
@@privateuser37264 things I think heals your allies deal 10-80 radiance damage give all your characters a long rest effect or gain a a blessed weapon
Don't know why, but I'm getting Geralt and Ciri vibes from your PC and Shadowheart.
Nice
Alfira's face just goes with so many beautiful hairstyles!
my game bugged i think, after I killed all the enemies, i saw that viconia still had 1hp somehow so i went to speak to her, she then promptly stood up and I got the narrator dialogue you get from stealing something and need to talk your way out of it.
yeah she is mega bugged. when I finished the fight I tried to talk to her but it just restarted the dialogue from before the fight. it started the fight again but noone appeared so I just killed her and nothing happened.
If Shadowheart saves her perebts, shar gets to keep her soul when she dies, and its not a happy ending thats for sure.
Better than the wall, I guess.
@@juanpauloarcillas7600she won't go to the wall. Her soul probably goes to Selune.
Meh, empty threats.
Er, no. She just never loses the pain-leash on her hand that hurts her whenever she thinks about Selune or niceness (as far as I can tell, that was the trigger for the curse hurting her)
The opposite. If you kill her parents, you're indulging in more Sharran dogma. Embracing loss.
Those Drow women be crazy!
Aww hell no bro, they did Viconia dirty.
Definetly wasn't speaking about that. And I expected the feature of changing a character's alignment to stay from the previous game.
@@rRagnaBRchange Viconia at BG 2 is only an option. You can change her, or not, it's not canon.
I was not expecting to hear Philosophy Tube 😂 I had to do a double take
You can actually save her parents, and it doesn't seem like there's a downside, either. They join your camp.
if you choose to save her parents, she forever lives with the sharran curse thing on her hand.
@@JailShankeryeah but the dialogue you get in the after scene with the parents make it seem like she’s willing to bare the skin for her family but to each their own!
@@JailShanker Pain is what makes life worth living. A curse is the best thing ever if you change your perception of what a curse is. A certain show makes this point well. Someone that's always been unlucky. But it teaches them to push through hardship.
If people don't live with pain then people don't learn to adapt and overcome. Shar is teaching a lesson here. While I think she could teach it better (being flawed is liekly by design and fitting) the lesson is still the same. That if pain is avoided it makes you like her. If you avoid the worst then you have only emptiness and loss. She's encouraging people down that path so they can learn from those mistakes. She wants you to learn but she's going to break you first. Until you learn to deal with the worst instead of being a coward hiding behind others. Including her.
Shar both has my respect and my disdain. That is bloody hard to pull off. While some characters are flawed in the game (and locations for that matter) they got Shar done perfectly. She represents everything loss stands for. What she isn't going to tell you is that being nothing has a purpose too. That you can learn to make something from nothing. That's the trick to it to it. It's a real life lesson that the more capable people will know about. But you won't learn to do that until you have nothing and laern to work with it instead of fearing it. So there is a method to Shar's lessons. The problem is she causes her minions to forget. Which gets in the way of learning. So she's kind of going against the point of the lessons in some ways. I think she might want to be challenged but if you just keep repeating the same mistakes and willingly choose to forget beacause of desperation for safety then that's the lie you live. That's not safe. This too is a real life lesson. That desperation for safety is what keeps people weak. Insecure.
Only by facing and accepting pain and learning to overcome it do people stop living in fear. For that reason I would tell Shadowheart to womanup and deal with it. Because she'll have her parents at her side. The pain is only a reminder of that. When giving meaning, reason and purpose a scar MEANS something. It's a message. A reminder. Something to fight for. To strive for. Shadowhearts parents might mean well but they're giving up in reality. Thinking that "Shadowheart has suffered enough". I'm with Shar on this one. Suffer more. You'll learn more.
Shar's a tricky one. She'll making a point on the left yet trying to play you a fool on the right. If you don't catch on to her game she's going to put you in those situations that might seem good but aren't. While what might seem bad is anythign but. It all depends on your own pereception, response and reaction to the situation you're in. She's going to try and break you but you can turn everything around if you just react and respond to it better. Just because she's a cynical bitch doesn't mean you have to be. You can follow her, play her games and believe in her while also challenging her. If done well she can even respect you for it. She's going to make you work for it though. What you choose to do is what you choose to do. At the end of the day it's your choice. To "escape" and destroy yourself. To forge and pretend harsh reality doesn't exist. Just like how real people do that every day and pretend it "helps" when it does anything but when they lie to themselves.
Consider this a lesson in honesty and choice. Don't be like Shadowheart until you are driven to the point you lose those closest to you. Face hardship. Face pain. Live life for what it truely is instead of what people want or expect it to be. The one thing Shar won't teach is facing it head on. That's something you'll left to figure out yourself. Probably wants you to understand that, but if she just told you it would defeat the point of learning to adapt to the worst on your own. She's the lady of loss. Not the lady of support.
The mushroom cures the pain doesn't it?
The Wiki says it does, however in game it does not. @@jceecraze9270
Those very familiar with the FR setting already knew that worshiping evil deities is always the wrong choice. They have utterly zero regard for their followers. The good gods aren't always wonderful, but the evil ones categorically treat their faithful as disposable objects.
Honestly, letting Viconia live is my best decision.
She loses another enclave of sharrans. She fails her lady and then forced to live with the failure. A true lesson of loss that will haunt her for her actions. All that to fail once more. I'm all for Viconia living once more.
Out of all the groups looking for the Prism, the cult of Shar has the dumbest reason. It's literally just "Well, we heard everyone else wanted it so we wanted it first"
"I mean, yeah, Shar didn't actually tell us to or care about it, but I wanted it so I could feel important."
@@thomasjoychild4962and elected to ignore her. XD
@@ladyselin35 Hilariously, this is the exact reason Shar orders Dark Justiciar Shadowheart to kill Viconia and everyone who stands with her.
@@thomasjoychild4962 Yeah i know but even as a neutral gameplay, watching Shar toying with her was hard to watch. Shar completely breaks Shadowheart. Ive played one dark justiciar path but even on that couldnt let her kill her parents. Because Shar proven again to give her memories back to her and let her kill her parents knowingly. Thats monstrous. Shes everything but absence thats for sure. Too meddling.
@@ladyselin35 Well, that's less absence and more spiting her sister by proxy, definitely. I mean, someone choosing a dark path for themselves, sure. Someone ending up on a dark path just because their strings are being pulled that way, nope. Same as with Lae'zel.
My neutral Helm cleric:"okey,now you die,and tell Shar,the eternal vigilant Is come for her dark ass
Ngl I don’t get the Nocturne part at all. Like “yeah you killed the whole enclave and are en enemy of our goddess but you’re cool with me”? Lmao
SHadowheart was her only friend, everyone else either bullied them or were yk, Shar-following heartless soldiers, and Viconia was the one who taught them and tortured them, I doubt she had any tears lost on them
I was crying my eyes out watching this then u started save scumming so it made me laugh 😂
Arnell sound like Lucas Grey in Hitman i feel really strange hearing him in this game
Better to have her parents live.. happier ending.
And then her soul is forfeit to Shar upon death.
See this is where I disagree, upon her death Shar takes her soul. Sure in the short term its a happier ending, but it also goes against the parents wishes. They have been tortured for years, forced to watch their daughter torture them. Overwhelmed by grief and pain, and while sure they will probably be happy to spend time with her, they want her to let go of the atrocities of her past. And her father, probably doesn't want to be forced to watch as Shar continues to torture his daughter
@@HallowedKeeper_ I didn't get any implication of her soul being lost, she just never gets rid of the pain-leash on her hand that shocks her whenever (as far as I can tell) she thinks about Selune or happiness.
Once again Sean bean is at deaths door. Man just can’t help himself I swear
Ahh man, I didn't get this cutscene. She ended up falling unconscious in a wall of fire that I forgot to take down after the fight ended...
My Halsin died the same way in act 2 lol
you saving before choosing is literally me 😭😭😭😭
How did I miss this 😭
I actually kinda liked Viconia as a companion in BG2...
Killing her serves no purpose. Better to leave her broken. As one that lost everything and gained nothing.
The lesson of Shar's teachings finally being learned. Then people understand the true meaning of Shar's lessons. That you. Gain. Nothing.
But....but the loot....
@@erikwilliams1562😂😂😂
That's a whole lotta high minded idealism to excuse letting a trained assassin and spymaster walk free with a grudge against you personally.
Much better to just stick a knife in her ribs while she's at your mercy.
@@CrashB111 You anger blinds you. Bred by your fear. You serve Bhall's will. He gets his blood.
The gods rig the game.
@Veldaz-dr2tp In the end there is only the laughter of thirsting gods.
Hahaha, this is your choice, but let me quick save just in case you are dumb. :D
Or in case your choice ends up having squicky consequences I can't forsee currently... Or gives you a serious permanent mechanical penalty :P
I told Shadowheart to choose for herself too, but in my case, she chose to save her parents, I wonder what exactly influences her choice here
Damn, Nocturne looks very close the same as my main character :O Mine only has longer hair and longer horns. But eye color, hair color is the same
15:49 "WHAT ARE THOOOOOOOOOOOSE?!"
I understand that Larian works with Euro actors, but it hurts not to hear Grey DeLisle as Viconia.
What an almighty spoiler in the title XD
Your character looks amazing, could you provide me with the details to recreate it? :)
Male
Body type 4
Head 5
Scar 1
Hair - windblown
Beard - groomed rascal
Hair color - white
Eyes - yellow(?)
Think thats everything but let me know if you have more questions :)
Is that... Is that???!!! Is that GERALT!?
Your character it's literally a gigachad.
Thanks King
What is Geralt of Rivia doing there? 👀
"killing monsters"
Is nocturne voiced by abigail thorn?
nocturne is the same person that runs the channel philosophy tube
THE SAVE LOL
*Shadowheart* *Supremacy*
Dude looks like geralt lol
Why is your hammer glowing? Either way, nice one!
has anyone found a video where viconia doesn't get killed? I'm just curious how it plays out, but every video I've found shows her getting killed.
You say get outta here disappear if i see you again ill kill you. She says dont worry im master of it. And goes away.
@@ladyselin35 thank you
Abigail Thorn! ❤❤❤
So I'm not the only one who noticed.
I don't know who that creature is but it isn't Viconia.
Viconia is a cleric of Shar because she refused to sacrifice a baby to Lolth. The idea that she'd be willing to sacrifice a random child centuries later to another god just seems meh.
Oh it's her
Shar takes things from her followers, memories and literal bits of their minds. I don't find it too hard to believe she could take Viconia's scruples/conscience/compassion slowly over time.
Wait where is this ? Still in act 2 ? I missed that.
its in act 3 when you reach baldurs gate
damn it. I missed it. @@JailShanker
I was watching this and realized Abi Thorn voiced a character for bg3. So cool
What’s that hammer you using
Corpsegrinder
What armor is that Shadowheart is wearing?
Half Plate Armour +2, if i recall correctly i bought it at the first main trader when arriving in Baldur's gate.
havent gotten this far in the game but what armor is shadowheart wearing?
I believe its an armor you can buy when you get to the first shop in baldurs gate (the city)
I wish I could make my own witty comebacks for this scene.... Shar is the lady of loss, so Shadowheart leaving should be a gift to you. Their entire religion is just so hypocritical and idiotic, I don't know how Shar managed to amass so many followers when she gives them nothing as a reward. There are just so many better gods to follow that actually bestow their followers powers or fulfillment
That's the thing - she takes away things people want to forget. Should you make Shadowheart follow dark path, she will murder her own parents and Shar will just take her memory of it, so she won't remember it. Shar followers are typically ones, who experienced heavy loss in their life, so Shar takes away their pain, at a price.
In Shadowheart's case though she was basically brainwashed into it from a young age. And that's probably how a lot of devout Shar supporters are made in the first place.
I never came across Viconia and Shadowheart’s parents in my playthrough. What act is this?
Act 3, in baldurs gate (city)
So selune did jack to help right any of this for all this time tho ? Idk if shes much better, prolly is...but not much.
Shar's darkness thing lets her hide people and things to some extent when she really wants to, even from her twin. I don't think Selune was actually aware of Shadowheart until she rejected Shar by freeing Aylin, at which point Selune starting powering her divine magic.
this is "revenge"? A quick death?
Not watching for a minute but wanted to leave this message here thank you for spoiling that bit of story there with your title i really needed that information when i am not going with shadowheart for my 1st run saves me from playing it again
You are welcome!
I'm a bit disappointed how Viconia looks in BG3, they did a better job with Jaheira.
Anyone else feel like they did Viconia DeVir wrong in this game?
Here is hoping for BG3: Definitive Editon in a year or so. There is already a lot of cut content & a explorable Avernum & endgame solution alone could make a sellable DLC to pay for bolstering story alternatives / extra voice recordings.
Damn why you do this to Viconia? She was best girl in BG1-2. Larian FFS...
I'll be honest. First time meeting Nocturne, I had no idea that was a dude. I thought he was just an oddly designed female character with a weird voice. Didn't find out different till Shadowheart ate the mushroom.
The frak they did to my wifu?? Ehs... And my character went on a crusade in the Underdark with their offspring. So sad.
i did this...and tbh, i felt very silly
she was a selune cleric, and selune couldn't help? besides making MoOnMoTeS
Yeah kind of a bitch if u ask me :/
Shar and Selune are sisters, and their powers are equal, so no, Selune is no help here.
I killed Nocturna. The game spawns like 10 flaming fists to defend him. It makes no sense.
i dont know what game this is but it is not Dragon age.
Baldiur gate 3
Then I'm afraid you are not existing.
My most sincere condolences.
Baldur's Gate 3. It's pretty new, must've slipped you by.
@@infectedastronaut7733 i nerver played the othere Baldur's gate so i gess i missed alot.
@@wowplayer00you don't really have to? The game is good enough to be played on it's own, and from what I understand, it's wildly different from the other titles anyway. I didn't play any previous titles either, and I'm having the time of my life playing BG3, and it's more similar to DA:O than you may think.
Sorry Nocturne and Shadowheart. Both of your nicknames are cringe and made up by a toddler.
And that Nocturne voice acting... lol.
Too bad there's no dialogue option to switch back to her actual name after all this :(
I would certainly take a "Jen" more seriously xD
Pump your brakes kid, those two are a national treasure and we will not tolerate Shart slander on this channel
Your comment is pretty cringe itself ngl
didnt ask leave the thumbs down at the door and go on and git@@planetbumble5060
such spoilers in the video title, tisk tisk
Helps people find what they're looking for :x
I would have just named it "Shadowheart gets revenge" and then put "Shar and meets family" in tags @@JailShanker
I just can't get over how lifeless the facial animations are, and the light eminating from their mouths. It's like WC: humans & Orcs level animation.
You are talking out your @$$, troll.
It's not a Starfield video